Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #151 What's A Doula And Do I Need One?

Transcript

#151 What's A Doula And Do I Need One? · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ash. I'm gonna pick on the spot here far away,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: big go. Okay, do you know? All right? Give me
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: your answer. What does a dueler do? It fills my
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: tummy because it sounds like a delicious Indian feet. I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: think that's dull.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: You got me, You got me.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: At first I thought it was what's that Dwali?
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: It's an Indian festival of food and culture and color
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: and music.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: That sounds lovely. It's not. It's not what a dueler does.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: But don't worry, because we have Alice Worthy here today.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: She is the modern duela who supports women through one
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: of the most intense moments of their lives. Yes, I'm
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: talking about childbirth.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Yes, we get into what a duela actually does, how
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: they differ from midwives, and how partners don't have to
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: just stand there awkwardly in.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: The labor room or birthing Sweet Plus, Alice shares her
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: most unforgettable birth story. Let's just say the parents christen
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: their newly renovated bathroom. Let's get into it. Welcome back
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: to two doting dads and one doting mum slash dueler.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: I am Mattie, j I'm Ash, and I'm Alice the
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: modern Dueller.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the good, it is the bad, and the relatable. And Alice,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: we have to say for legal reasons, not really legal reasons,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: but kind of legal reasons, not real, not real, fake
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: legal reasons. Yeah, we don't give advice, Ash and I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: never had that a will. We do sometimes, but if
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: it does come out as advice, it's accidental. But you
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: are more than welcome to give advice. There's a loophole
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: in that legalities are allowed to I'm allowed to guess
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: are immune from those legal ramifications. You can break the
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: law here in your fine, I'll talk to my lawyer.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: We do like to start with our guess a little
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: journey back in time to when they were a youngster
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: and Ash, do you think Alice was someone who was
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: well behaved or was she someone who was quite naughty?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: She's from Central Coast.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, I'm going to say class clown ish.
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: You picked that up already.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was like a drama kid. Yeah, I was
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: a drama kid.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: And mom and dad always said like, it doesn't matter
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: about your grades, you just try your hardest. So I
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: was like, okay, I'll be dramatic.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when did you get your first taste of drama?
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: Oh would have been as soon as I kind of
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: started school, maybe year four.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: I was like a Shakespeare kind of kid. O hard
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: to believe, I know.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Can you remember any of it?
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: Oh? Nothing, nothing, but I think I did play like
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: Desdemona in something we went to the Shakespeare like I
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: can't even remember now, like Desdemona and.
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: Is there a fellow?
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Full disclosure, I don't know what any of these were.
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: I just want you to know.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: You said that this was like a previous life, so
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: I like, I can't remember now all left my body.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Did you ever get in trouble?
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: Probably when I was in primary school?
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: This would have been like year two maybe, and mom
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: and dad sent me to after school care. They owned
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: a cafe at the time and so they would work
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: on long hours and I used to have to go
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: to after school care, which I hated.
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: So I took it upon myself to just.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Get the bus home because I knew where the bus went,
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: and like it was.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: A school bar.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: It was a school bus, so probably younger. Yeah, I
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: was young for my year too, so I just was like,
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: fuck this, I'm not going after school care. Got on
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: the bus took me all the way because we lived
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: at Copacabanna, which was like the furthest suburb away.
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: So I was like last kid on the bus with
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: my friend Maya.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: I don't even know where she is now, but she
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: helped me. I got off, I went to Maya's house.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: Her mom was like, hey, like, you didn't know you
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: were coming over today, because you know, it would be
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: weird if your kid turned up with like a kid
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: from school, And I was like, yeah, no, my mom
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: said at school, So I lied. Maya's mom called my
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: mom because after school care was freaking out.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: We're missing one those poor teenagers who are running after
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: school care eighteen year old.
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: But I think secretly, deep down, mom and dad were
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: like she's independent, Like she's great. I like to believe that.
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: Now I'm not sure if it's true. I should ask them.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: But what was the punishment? Do you remember?
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: I don't remember. Like my dad was always like, a
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: you were grounded for a month, And then the next
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: day I'd be like, can I go to my friend's house?
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: And he's like, get out of here.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: As much easier for you to not be at home.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, grounding your kids is more punishment to the parents
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: and them away boarding school for you than you. Look
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: at you now, such an independent woman.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I can get the bus. Yeah, I mean doing
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: this forever. So yeah, I got in trouble for that.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: But otherwise, like my parents were pretty I had older brothers,
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: so they did a lot of breaking in for me. So, yeah,
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: are you the youngest I am of how many of three?
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: My brothers are ten and eight years older than me,
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: So they're in their forties.
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: They're really old.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I'm pretty much there. Actually, I'm hanging on
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: to thirty seven for as long as I can.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like my grandmother's been twenty nine for like fifty
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: five years.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: You could do that too.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: It's all about how you feel.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, how do you feel so good? You look great.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: You haven't always been a dueler. No, you used to
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: work in media, yes, so Ash and I were wondering,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: how does someone who works in media all of a
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: sudden become a dueler?
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a bit of a wild career change, just a bit.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: But I've actually been.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: Doing both for a long time, so I kind of
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: was running the double life a bit, like you know,
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: Hannah Montana. I had been in media, working in radio,
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: and then when I felt pregnant and I went through
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: my own first birth experience that obviously changed everything, as
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: it does for so many people, and I was like, wow.
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: Before pregnancy, no idea, what a doula was.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: I didn't even know what a cervix was, So like,
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: was so.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: With your first what was your birth plan? How did
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: that unfold? Yeah?
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: Well, the birth plan was like, have an amazing, beautiful
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: hypno birthing in the water, no payment, amazing.
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that was that was the plan.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: The plan, Okay, and how did that go?
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: Nepie Durrell and just you know, push this baby out
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: after like fifty two hours, so you.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Know, like fifty two hours.
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: So before birth, I was like Paula Abdullah Jeweler, like
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: what's a duela? Had no idea and people would kind
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: of mentioned it, and I thought like why would I
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: ever need one of those? Like, I'm gonna be fine,
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: my buddy's meant to do this. I was like, people
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: birth all the time, people birth every day, Like I
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: got this, and then like first contraction, I was like
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: I don't have this, you know.
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: So that was a bit of a rude shock.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: But I kind of came out of that and I
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: was like, I get now why people need more support
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: or should you know, we should have more support if
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: they want it. So I was a bit bored on
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: maternity leaf. I was like, what am I going to
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: do with.
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: My life now? Like I'm a mom, what am I doing?
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: So I thought I'll just do this duel of course,
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: because it sounds cool. And I did the course and
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: I was like, this is amazing. But I also don't
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: feel like I fit the dueler vibe, you know, because
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: there's a bit of a stereotype that duelers are really
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: hippie and spiritual and you know, sage sticking and you know,
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: burning consenters in the woods. Yeah, clearing the space of
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: like things. You know, it's great if you're into it,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: but I just was there was never me. So I
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: kind of thought like, maybe this is not Is.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: There smoke involved?
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can't have smoke around someone
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: who's giving birth. Is that.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: It's not like a bonfire, it's just a sage stick
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: you will.
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: Yes, okay, like burning incense.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Coup of candles for the aura, thank you? Yes.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: Always thought, you know, maybe I don't really fit that.
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: But then I thought I went into pregnancy and birth
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: and I would have loved some support that wasn't super
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: spiritual and about all that.
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: So I thought I was just going to give this
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: a go.
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  Speaker 4: But I didn't want to jump into running my own
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: business without the security of an income, so I went
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: back to work full time in radio as well with
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: the course.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, how long is that course?
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: The course I did was I think it was like
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: seven days total over a couple of months, like a
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: couple of weekends. But you don't need a course to
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: be a dueler. It's not a regulated industry, so you
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: don't have to do a course. But I thought I
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: just wanted to to like expand my skills and set
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: and education. And I went back to radio and I
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: was working radio, and I said to them like, hey,
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: I'm also a dueler now, like I'm coming back as
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: a mum, but I also have my side business here.
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: And they were like that's.
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: Cool, like so supportive and so willing to work with me.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: So there were a couple of times I'd be at
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: work and I'd look at my phone and be.
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: Like, shit, got to go, and they're.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Like, have fun, good luck, how do you find your
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: first client?
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: So we had to do three student birth experiences. So
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: I got them through word of mouth. A physio referred me,
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: another duela referred me for someone. So yeah, and it's
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: like having your l plates on.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: You're like, you're just like in the room going through
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: the whole process with a duela that's been experienced or
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: good wife.
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: Or or a I don't know, No, you're doing it
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: on your own, like, so it was more that you
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: supported these families through. We kept a diary, we checked
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: in with like our educator and stuff, but it was
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: pretty much off your own devices.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: But yeah, they were great and I did those and
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: then I was certified and away we went.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: How was the first birth?
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: The first birth was actually amazing. It was a first
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: time mum. She was incredible, a water birth in the hospital,
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: zero intervention. So as a dueler who's done this course, thinking.
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: Like, this is how birth exactly should be. This is textbook.
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: Seeing my first birth that wasn't my own like that, I.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: Was like, it's real, Like it really is a thing.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: I was on an oxytocin high four day. Yeah, and
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: a couple of my other colleagues in the course had
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: had births that were so like.
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: They were like I saw everything.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: I saw the cascade of intervention, you know, I saw
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: the cascades, so like you intervene somewhere along the way
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: in it kind of cascades and it can just like
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: a snowball effect, everything kind of ends up happening. And
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: they had seen that, and I'd seen this beautiful water birth.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: You know, my time would come for seeing those things too.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: But yeah, that was my first experience as.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: A doller, literally straight into the deep end. And you
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: said that they're like, you do three experiences? Is it?
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: I did? Yes?
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: What do they call them against?
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: Student birth?
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Student birth? Okay?
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: And the person who you're supporting obviously know you're student birth,
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: so she's a first mum and this is your first time. Yeah,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: I can imagine the maybe the anxiety in the air
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: or was it your job to bring that back down?
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: Bring it back down? Absolutely?
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: And the thing about supporting someone through birth, and I
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: was guilty of this thinking that you have to have
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: all the answers and you have to know all the
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: evidence and have all the information, and really it's not
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: about that at all, you know, It's about making sure
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: that that woman and her partner feel in control and
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: feel like they're driving that shit and you're just kind
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: of there to support and guide along the way. So
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: she was amazing. She had an incredible mindset. She was
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: an athlete as well, so she like had a good
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: performance mindset. So as a dueler, I was like, this
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: is this is dream client goals.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: You know, after you do those three student births, are
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: you like going hard and trying to recruit your next client?
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's I actually felt pregnant, so in that
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: student kind of I was doing my student birst, I
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: feltregnant again, and I was like.
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: And unplanned pregnancy.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: But I feel like an idiot saying that when you're
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: an adult, because you're like, I know how pregnancy works.
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: I know how it happens, so like you know.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Whoop, see We're like, I can't believe it.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: That happened always. So that was a bit of a
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: shock because I was my girls are eighteen months apart,
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: so I had two under two, and I was.
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: Like, gosh, I had a bit of a break.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: But I was you're active on social media, which was
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: good because you're always working nine months ahead like my clients.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: That I'm signing at the moment. Are due in January February,
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: you know, so you're.
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: Always working a long way.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: So I kind of was planning to be back doing
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: burst around four months postpartum, so I could kind of
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: plan that head to get the next client.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: That's pretty quick. Yeah, especially with two under two. I
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: know you're telling congratulations and so someone right now maybe
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: they they haven't had a child just yet, they're thinking
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: about they're planning that to get pregnant. Yep. When is
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the right time to engage with.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: A dueler, I would say, like most duelers will offer
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: obligation free connect calls and catch ups and stuff. So
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: if you really want to take your time finding the
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: one that's right for you, which I do recommend, like
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: meet with a few, you could even do it before
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: you're pregnant, just so that you've put the feelers out
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: in the cannects to be like, hey, I'm thinking about this,
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: and maybe some guidance or some support in your trying
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: to conceive journey. So it's never too early. But I
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: would say most people will reach out at the moment.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: It's like people are peeing on a stick and sending
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: me a photo of their double lines. You know, that's
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: kind of where we're at now. And I'm like, whoa, Okay,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: this is great, amazing. And then some people don't find
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: me till like thirty weeks and they're like.
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: Shit's changed.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: My plan is, I don't know what's happening, Like I
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: need support, and you know, usually I can kind of.
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: Make them fit.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: And so we are now currently twenty one weeks.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: Yes, exciting to thank you very much, thank You're welcome.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Every time I congratulating in front of me.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I also take that off. Yeah, Ash is godfather, oh godchild.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: So if I reach out and I say, Alice, we're
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: having a baby twenty one weeks, yep, what happens? Then
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: how do I or how do you make sure that
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I'm the right potential client for yourself?
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: Well I do like connect calls, so facetimes where I
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: love the partners to be there too, because I think
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: that's really important to know that part is on board
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: for me. I'm like a lot of guys don't understand
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: what a dueler is, and that's so fine, guilty, but
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: at least need dad.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: To be like at a five, Like if there's a
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: scale of zero to ten.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: I need a dad to be at a five where
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: he's at least like whatever you want, babe, Like, I
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: support your choices.
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: That For me, I'm like tick because I know that,
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: like we're going to get on.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: But if a dad's like that sounds dumb, like why
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: are we paying for that?
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: Like that's stupid?
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: Like that for me, I'm like, oh, but I do
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: like to connect with the couple to make sure that
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: we can have a free conversation a bit of banter, because,
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: like I swear, I like have a sense of humor.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: I want to have a laugh I don't. I want
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: to bring some fun and light to birth because it
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: is such a big time, but it should be a
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: joyous time, so I want to help bring that out too.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: So how do you support mum and dad to be
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: not during birth, but initially during that pregnancy phase before
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: you're actually in the room about to give birth.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so kind of depends on where they're at. I
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: love to meet couples like where they are. So if
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: I meet a couple and they've got zero education, they
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: don't understand birth. They don't understand like what the body
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: is doing and what the process looks like then I
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: kind of know we've got to do a bit of
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: education and a bit of like a more teaching than
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: I would usually do, which I prefer to do more
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: like connect and and get to know each other that way.
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: So maybe it's education.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: But we meet three sometimes four times in pregnancy, have
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: a group chat going I love, send me some gifts,
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: send me some memes about pregnancy and shit, and when
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: we catch up. I like to do a bit of
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: birth planning and birth prep, and then I like to.
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: Get physical with my clients.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: It's soundever really weird nice. I like to, you know,
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: show them hands on support techniques. So show them how
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: they can use the different tools. I've brought some props
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: as well. Maybe I can show you later, yeah, how
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: they can be good support people and practice for the
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: for the big day.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Like positions women give birth and all sorts of different positions,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: like on all fours can be or on their back,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: on their back, I.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Think is there more than that they can squat side?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Someone says like, hey, I got no idea when you
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: ask me what my birthing plan is, Like I don't
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: even know what's available. What are the kind of main options,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: like a menu that I can choose from.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: That's a big question.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: It would really depend on what your like birth philosophy is.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: So some people will see birth as a really scary
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: medical event that is going to need a lot of
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: support and help, I suppose in managing that situation, and
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: they're going to feel safest having either an obstetrician or
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: you know, a private midwife maybe, And they're on one side,
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: and then there's the other side that thinks it's a
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: really natural event that rarely needs medical interference. So depending
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: on where you're kind of on this spectrum, birth is
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: going to look different for you. But you've got lots
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: of options depending on where you choose to have your baby.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: So some people will choose to have their baby in
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: a public hospital under like midwife care. Those public hospitals
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: might have baths, so water birth if some people will
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: want to have epidurals and want to have pain relief,
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: and they'll want to be you know, on the bed
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: and not feel the pain of labor. Some people want
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: to have their baby at home with a private midwife.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Some people want to have an obstetrician, and elective cesarean like,
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: there's so many choices that exist and I don't think
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: people realize exactly what those choices are.
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: So part of my work is.
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: Working with a couple to see where they are on
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: that spectrum, what they want for birth, what they think
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: could be possible for them, and then helping them navigate
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: the system to try and get their goals.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I've always been inquisitive about the water births, not for me.
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: Has Laura had a water birth?
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I remember we went This is when Marley was still
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: in Laura's tummy. We went into the hospital and this
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: is when we were kind of going through the different options.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Like I had no wight. I thought it was just
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: like you give birth, you lay on a bed.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Comes out.
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: That's what we see in the movies, right.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: To remember them. There's like a big, big bathtub. It's
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: a big one. It was like a half spa half.
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: Like getting in the sauna. We have a bath first
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: and then and then.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And that's when I found out about water births. And
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I don't like blood. So the idea of being like
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: in with Laura, to be in there with it, I
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: just scoot over.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: That.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Actually, that's a good one. Is the water cold or warm?
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: No, it's warm.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: It's it's got to be warm, otherwise maybe it's get
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: a bit freaked down.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Joe Rogan's in the having and ice.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Degrees. Just breathe three minutes and then how do you differ?
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: You mentioned midwife before a lot of people, even I
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: put the call out on social media. The main question
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: that I got most commonly asked was what is the
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: difference between a midwife and a dueler.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good question.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: So a midwife is someone who is clinically trained and
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: looks after the clinical care of your yourself and the baby.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: So they're really concerned to make sure that you're healthy,
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: you're well, and medically speaking, you guys are all good
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: and happy. A dueler is not medically trained, so we
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: should never ever be performing any medical tasks or like
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: checking bellies or doing cervical exams or anything like that.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: So even though we can be hands on with support
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: and pressure and acti pressure massage, we're not doing anything
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: medical at all. So really just providing emotional, physical, informational,
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: and advocating support. Your midwife is clinically responsible for you
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: and the baby as well.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: With a midwife, we're saying everything's very medical.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: It's what they do day in, day out.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: You're more in there to support them, I suppose, Yeah,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: like bringing the anxiety down and trying to manage the pain,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: but without having to do the medical side of it.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: And I think a lot of midwives would love to
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: be doing that side as well. But they're in a
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: system that you know, they've got I don't want to downplay,
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: but lots of paperwork and reporting and lots of things
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: and checkboxes that they have to do. That means that
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: they're not really a lot of the time able to
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: give you that one on one support. And that was
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: a shock for me when I went into labor with Billy.
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: I thought my midwife was going to be like with
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: me the whole time and doing my hip squeezes and
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: helping me out and giving me different positions.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I just want to say, this is a midwife plan though,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: So you have like you have a midwife, just a midwife, Yeah, midwife.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah from start, Like you get to sign a midwife
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: and that will all the way from the start. Yeah. Yeah.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Laura was in the mid with Free program, gotcha. So
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: if the romany midwives listening and going, well, hang on
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: a second, we are there. We don't just come in
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: at birth, you get a signed your midwife and then
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: all your checkups are with that midwife from like until
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: your full term and then this is the.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: Gold standard, so everyone should have that. But that Midway
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: free group practice program is really hard to get into
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: and often fills up quite quickly. So if you're lucky
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: enough to get in that program, like you're kicking goals,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: like good on you, like you've got this girl.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: But oh, backtrack on that midwifeologize.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: And you know what we need both, Like I think
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: we really and what works really well is when midwives
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: and duelers and even obstetricians work on the same team together.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: We're all there for the same reason and that's to
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: make sure that this family has a great birth experience.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: So yeah, we should all be working together collaboratively.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: If there is someone who is thinking right now, I
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: do want to engage the dueler, what would you recommend
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the best questions to ask?
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: So I would ask them, you know what their birth
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: philosophy is, like, like what do they think about pain relief?
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: What do they think about home birth? What do they
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: think about private obstetricians? And usually you'll be able to
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: get a sense of what kind of duela this person is.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: I would always want to ask them practical questions like
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: what's your backup? You know, like what happens if you
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: can't make my birth? Who would stand in? Or refunds
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: and that kind of stuff. How many clients do they
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: take on a month? Just so that you can understand
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: like where you fit in their calendar and scheme, and
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: then ask them like what experience they have? What's their
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: skill set? You know?
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: Some duelers are really skilled in massage.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: Others are like acupressure geniuses, you know, poetry, yeah, Shakespearean sonnets,
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: you know, drama skill set.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Stand up comedians.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: You just got to ask them.
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: You know, so, Yeah, ask them what their skill set
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: is and how they like to support.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Is there ever a scenario where you go into the
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: delivery suite, you're then with your client, the midwife comes
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: in and there's any tension at all between yourself and
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: the midwife where midwife is like, I think we should
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: do this, and you go, well, I think this could
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: be an option.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: Honestly, like, it's happened maybe once or twice. Okay, it's
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: really rare. Did you guys punch on?
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: In the whole way.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I would watch that.
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: Downstairs to Ed.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: No, very rarely does it happen, and usually it's you know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: I would say as a door. My style of advocating
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: is not to really speak for the woman.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: If she's able to do it herself.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: So often I'll refer to things like, oh, that's written
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: on the birth plan, or you know, we had discussed this,
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: what do you think, and just trying to open up
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: more of a conversation around it, as opposed to like.
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: She doesn't want this, she doesn't want that. So it rarely.
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: Happens occasionally, of course, you know, because we've got different agendas.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: I guess, you know, midwives are working within a system.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: I'm supporting a client who has their own wishes, So
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: it's a bit of a dance, you know.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: And if you're going to the same hospitals, you would
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: build rapport with these guys anyway, right, It's not like
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: you're just turning up on day one like you're at
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: the Mash Hospital. Make it more Hollywood, don't remember I
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: did drama in primary schools.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Is there ever a scenario where like one thing that
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: stands out for me as advice that I've heard other
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: mums give each other is that if you want to
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: have an epidural, you got to ask for it early.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: You don't want to have a scenario where you're like,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I like the epidural please, and I go, actually, you're
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: too far gone, it's too late. Because I know you
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: mentioned that you don't get involved in involved in the
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: medical side of things. Is there ever a case where
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: you say to that your client, like, if you want
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: your epidural, you should request it now.
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: I don't think I've ever said that.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: I try not to actually offer any pain relief, Like
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: a lot of the people that I'm working with don't
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: want that either, like they want to have a more
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: natural physiological experience. Of course, when I hear a client
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: that we've had a discussion about epidurals, when I hear
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: them say like I want an EPI durol, I'm like, great,
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: Like she wants an epi driol, and we kind of
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: make it happen. I wouldn't ever offer it because I
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: think that's kind of almost a sign that you think
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: that they can't do it or they're.
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: Not handling it.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Yea.
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: So I kind of like try.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: Not to ever offer pain relief because I believe that
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: they can do it without it until they ask for
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: it themselves.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you could imagine being in that vulnerable state
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and you're going, I think you should.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, your emotions are so probably so heightened right there
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: that yeah, you could.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: It could be a bit traumatic.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: I spose and I had a midwife do that to
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: me in my first birth, and this is the one
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: that I want to have, the beautiful water birth. And
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: when I was like, oh, this is really hard, she
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: just like, have some gas, and I was like, I
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: love gas, Like send me off, like you know, that's
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: the only reason I go to the dentist, like the gas.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: So when she said that, I was like, oh, I
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: feel like a bit of a drug addict, like hook
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: me up. And that just started like that menu of
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: pain relief for me. So yeah, I try not to
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: try not to offer it.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I get that it was so good too. I'm understanding
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: more of the role of a dueler and tell me
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: if this is way off here, But it kind of
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: feels like you're almost like a supportive parent. So that's
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: been there before.
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, is that?
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Am I kind of getting on the right track?
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Can you give me examples of where when you're at
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: birth in the delivery suite, and what ways do you
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: support your patient.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: So lots of different ways. One is just being close.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: I know it sounds really weiry, but we call it
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: holding space. So it's really just being kind of a
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: bodyguard of the area to make sure that that kind
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: of bubble doesn't get popped, whether it's like unwanted interruptions
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: and that kind of thing and unwanted questions. It's always
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: nice to have a handhold. Like people often be like, oh,
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: dolors are just handholders. I'm like, well, you've never had
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: your handheld really good, because it's so nice to have
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: your handheld and just to like know that someone is
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: there and that has been through it and that knows
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: that you can do it. And then there's all the
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: physical side of things, So the hip squeezes, the acupressure,
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: the positions, the helping babies turn positions when maybe they
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: might be posterior, and trying to encourage them to turn around,
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: encouraging different forms.
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: Of pain relief.
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: So we've got showers, we've got earth balls, birth comebs, tens, machines,
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: there's so many ways you can support and then the
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: other one would just be like advocating, so you know,
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: either if it's buying them more time and.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Then once delivered, yes, are you like, well.
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: They got to get home for bedtime.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: I usually stay like up to maybe two hours after
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: the baby's born. Definitely like love to step back and
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: let mom and dad have their moment meeting their their
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: baby and trying to take some photos and videos and
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: stuff for them, and then I kind of will often
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: go out and make mum like a nice cup of
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: like chicken sleep or broth or like you know, there
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: is it natural organic, So they've got these powders, they're
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: really good, and I make them broth and come back
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: and make sure that they're doing well having their skin
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: to skin and that Sometimes I can help latch, you know,
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: if they want a breastfeed, and make sure that mum's
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: got everything that she needs for either that night or
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: to go home. Sometimes I'm helping you have a shower
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: and then making sure she's all tucked up and happy
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: and save and well.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: The hospital can be a pretty isolating place depending on
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: It's so different every day, right, Like I remember just
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: being like people in and out in and out in
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: and out in and out, and it must be really
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: comforting for mums to be that take up a dueler
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: to have someone there all the time if they want
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: them there all the time to help them with those
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: things that they're and not feel isolated.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Do you get that as a response from people, Yeah?
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: And sometimes if mums have an unexpected like stay in hospital,
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: they're staying a few days that they didn't expect to.
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: Sometimes I'll bring supplies from home or make sure that
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: they've got some food, bring them food to the hospital
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: so that they're not eating a cheese sandwich and a
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: dry wee bigs, you know.
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: So yeah, it's nice to have a friendly face when
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: you're in there for sure.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: And then do you then still stay in contact with
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: them when they've returned home if they have had a
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: hospital state. Yeah.
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: So a lot of my packages have you know, six
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: weeks postpartum care in them as well.
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: So I'll come over postpartum, make mum food.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: And make sure she's well and sitting down because they
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: always bloody get up. And when I come around, I
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: want you in bed, I want your hair and a mumbum.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: I want you covered in breast milk like I want
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: you just looking like shit. Basically, I come around, they
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: always look amazing and I'm like, yeah, yeah, they never listened.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: To me in those post visits. My wife suffered from
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: postpartum depression pretty badly. Do you lend an air for
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: those people?
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, And just being someone that they can talk to
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: without judgment, you know, and not try and be that
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: toxic positivity that a lot of like people get in
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: the newborn stage.
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: Like isn't it amazing?
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: And yeah it is, but it's also can be really
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: hard sometimes. Yeah, And just on that as well, like
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: knowing where the red flags are someone can't recognize it
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: in themselves and being able to then refer on if
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: I think that it's beyond my scope as a dueler,
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: and I think that they might need more support and
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: more clinical care or clinical supervision so that you can
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: get onto it early.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Real mother, hen vibe, you're there for the whole process
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: and then after the process for you to go in
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: six weeks later and then also lend an air And
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: that must be really powerful for a lot of women.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: So yeah, and it's nice to be around there. They
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: often call being a duela like mothering the mother it's
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: nice because you've got this baby that is sucking everything
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: out of you.
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: You're recovering from birth, and now you're feeding the baby.
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: You're not getting any sleep, and then to have someone
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: come over and make sure that you're okay so that
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: you can do that again tomorrow is like just fills
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: your cut back up for sure.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: When you look at all the births that you've been
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: involved in, when you look at the dads, what advice
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: can you give? And this may be not just for us,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: but for any dads to be that are listening and
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: they're thinking, how can I help not only during pregnancy
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: but during birth and postpartum? What's the best advice you
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: can give?
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: The best advice is in pregnancy. Please listen to the
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: podcast that she's sending you. Yeah, like you've got to
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: be on the same educational journey that she's on because
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: a lot of the time pregnancy we go through this.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: You know, I've got to learn all this stuff, I've
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: got a prep for birth, and then dads kind of
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: just continue on their life because it's not happening to
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: their body right, So it's hard to sometimes connect with that,
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: especially if it's your first. So listen to the podcast,
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: go to the course, try to stay awake.
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: Time, try not to stream sports while you.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: And you turn out.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Alright, all right, yeah, I've got a whole podcast on
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: parenting now, So.
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: So yeah, go on the educational journey with her, because
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: when when she's in birth and when she's in labor land,
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: she's actually not in that brain anymore. So you kind
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: of have to be her brain for her. In birth,
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: whatever she says goes right. So like if she says,
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: you know, it's time to go to the hospital, or
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: I want to do this, or I need this, I
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: want this, you kind of got to be like, yes,
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: I believe in you. I believe you can, and I'm
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: listening to what you say, you know, because instinct is
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: so powerful in birth, so we need to like really
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: tune into what she's saying because a lot of the time,
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: like in labor, you can't really form full sentences. It's
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: hard to get your words out. So when she does
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: say something, we need to listen.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Because I feel quite redundant in the birthing suite obviously,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Like if Laura asks for anything, then I'm like straight
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: onto it is anything unprompted or proactive that a partner
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: should be aware of in the birthing suite. Yep.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, So the first thing I would say is always
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: be physically close to her. So if she's going to
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: the toilet, you're going to the toilet with her. If
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: she wants to get in the shower, you're holding the
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: shower jets with her. If she's getting in the bath,
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: you're sitting by the bath. Always being really physically close,
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: because you are the most important person to her in
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: that room. You know, even if you have a dueler,
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: nothing will replace the love that you guys have for
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: each other. And love is what it sounds like, It's
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: really beautiful. Love is what we need to make contractions happen.
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: Right That oxytocin hormone is what is going to power labor.
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: So she needs you really close.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: So even if you don't know what to say, just
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: being there and even holding her hand is like enough.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: If she's ever saying things like I can't do it anymore,
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: I'm so tired, rather than saying like, yeah, let's get
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: you an epidural, baby, look tired, we really want to
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: say like turn it into an affirmation of like I
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: know you can do this.
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: You've prepared for this.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: You're so strong, and like hearing that from your partner
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: is like like gives all of those like oxytocin vibes
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: so encouragement. And then if she's really saying she can't
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: do it anymore, distraction, So let's switch it up. So
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: even if you to make like a triangle in the
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: birth suite of like you know, the bed up on
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: its highest level so that she can lean up against it,
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: the shower and the bath, if you just move between
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: those three stations in the hospital, just keep distracting her.
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: You're by yourself so much time.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I have a flashback to when I got really hungry
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and I have to go down to the get a sandwich.
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, so not physically close.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And on that note, is there is there anything
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: that dads shouldn't do? Does anything stick out that you've
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: seen or heard of where you're like, that's like that's
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: a no brainer, but don't do it.
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: Oh the first thing that comes to me, Yeah, I've
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: heard your birth story, so I know that. The first
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: thing that came to mind was if you drive a
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: big truck.
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: Like check that it goes in the car park of
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: the hospital.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: Please please, like do a drive by in the birth suite,
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: I would say, like, is there anything that you can't do?
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: Is like, please don't be on your phone, even if.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: You think.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Before you're fucking streaming in the birth class, it's different.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: You got it out of business manly did the day
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: out or yeah, like even when you're hiding it, you know,
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: like at school when you think that, like the teacher
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: can't see you on your phone and they because they
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: so can you slash they can't yeh. Try not to
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: call your mom, you know while birth is happening. Yeah,
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: let's wait for the placenta to be born before you
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: do that, Yeah, for sure.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: And then postpartum, I think that's a time where a
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: lot of partners feel a bit redundant because Bubba's so
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: attached to mom. What's your advice on how they can
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: be a standout individual.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: Or stand out individual?
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: I would say, if you've if this is your first baby,
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: please be with her in the nighttime. So nighttime feeds
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: is a real like whack to the system.
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: Your hormones are going crazy.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: So even if you feel like you can't do much,
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: even just being with her and sitting up with her
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: in bed and like being a support like what do
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: you need me to grab? Changing the nappy after the feed,
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: and being there for those night feeds can help make
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: her feel less alone.
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: And then if you could.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Encourage her and be supportive of her really resting and
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: I mean really resting, like treat her like a in
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: those two weeks, even if you could like ideally six,
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: but like it's unrealistic for a lot of people to.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Be doing that.
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: So if you could give it two weeks of just
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: like being a doting dad and a doting husband said,
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: that would be amazing. You're making sure that she's staying
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: in bed, she's staying warm, she's fed, she's showered and
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: has unhydrated well, and he's encouraged to be in bed
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: with the baby's skin to skin. If you have other kids,
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: really doing what you can to take those other kids
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: away so that she has wanting time with the newborn,
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: because she's probably going to feel like her heart is
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: split in For Laura's case.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Three, Yeah, that was one of the biggest regrets that
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: we have is once Lola was born, coming home as
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: quickly as we could, and then having it's so so
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: hard because Marley was eighteen months and they don't understand.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: And this time around, Laura is like, I will stay
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in that hospital bed for as long as a bloody can.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: It's a holiday with a newborn, yeah, and it's a
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: bit divide and conquering those days if you've got other kids,
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: so it can kind of feel like you know, you've yeah,
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: you're with your newborn, your partners with the other kid.
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: So just making time to connect with her as well.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: I remember some of the some advice I got given
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: was but for those nighttime feeds is just just don't
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: say anything to her, just be there.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Just be there and do it.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: If she says can you get me some water, don't
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: even say yes, just go and do it, because yes
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: could come out as like an attitude.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: You're both tired, exactly.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: I remember as a new dad first time, I put
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: so much pressure on myself to be up all the
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: time that it made us both tired the whole time
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: and too tired. People don't equal a fully rested person.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: But I was always felt like the pressure to do so.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: But then I was like, Okay, well I'm going to
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: do it, but I'm not going to say anything. So
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: then she can look across the dark room and I'm there,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: but only if she needs me to do something.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: And then, you know, sometimes i'd fall asleep.
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: Sorry, you can't help it, slippery, come far across the room,
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: wake up.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And then you've obviously been through many births. Do you
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: know the exact number of how many you've been involved in?
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: I did count it for you. We're up to thirty four.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Now, wow, that's cool. How are you here to celebrate
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the fiftieth drink? Are there any births? Yeah, that stand
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: out for you as being the most memorable? Oh? Yes.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: It was actually a good friend of mine that I
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: met through my mother's group. I'm now fully identified her
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: as well. Anyway, she says, will you Abby, will you
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: be my dueler for our second? And I thought this,
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: this is incredible, Like I'd love to. So it happened
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: around Christmas time and I was working in radio at
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: the time, so we had this like big Christmas Carol's event,
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: and as an on call dueler, and like working big events,
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: you're kind of like it's a little bit stressful. So yeah,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: I'm like wearing my freaking glitters Christmas outfit. Fuck, And
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: I'm thinking I think she might have been like thirty
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: nine weeks or something, and we're messaging in this group
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: chat of this mother's group, and Abby says, I'm going
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: to go for a walk. I'm gonna walk this baby out.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, how can you not, because like I'm.
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: At this event.
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: And one of our other friends in mother's group sends
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: her an excerpt of like fifty Shades of Gray and
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: it's like this will get that, this will get the juices going.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, how dare you like like the audio
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: of it, like like a screenshot of the like Kindle
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: book or something like, you know, the passage of my
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: giant pulsetting member, you know, like like yeah, like real smart.
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, god, like doesn't work.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you know.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: That's it right.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: I'm thinking, anyway, she's going for a walk. Then I
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: get like, maybe an hour later, I get this message
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: from her husband saying, hey, like she's having some like contractions.
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: I think we might be on and I'm like.
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: Da, do you haven't in my hand? I'm like, I'm
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: going to use this when my next mum gets to
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: forty two weeks. You know, screenshots, smartfolder, It's the work
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: I sweat. So I'm like ship.
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: I better go.
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: So I I go up to work and I'm like, hey,
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: like I think a baby's coming, Like.
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: I got to run.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: They're like, just go do what you need to do.
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: Totally got out of the pack out pack down for
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: the event.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Perfect.
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: So I run home.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: I message my husband Phil be like can you get
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: my dueler bag ready?
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: And like my T shirt or like whatever I gotta
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: get changed I could have like here's a Christmas mirror.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: I run home.
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: Luckily they don't live far from me. Like I'm I'm speeding,
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: like I got out of the car park. I'm speeding home.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: I get a message saying her waters have just broken,
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: like babies coming, and I'm like fuck, So I like
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: grab my bag, Hey Phil, Hey girls, like mommy's got
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: to go, like help the babies. I run out the
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: door and I go into the house the husband's mother,
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: and mother's sitting on the couch downstairs and she's like hello, Alice,
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: and I was like, Hi, like go upstairs, go.
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: Into the bedroom.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: Abby's in the bathroom and she's she's roaring at this stage,
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: and I was like, wow, you doing so amazing, like
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: you're doing so well and try and just like bring
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: the bring the pressure down a bit, bring the anxiety down.
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: And she's going and I'm thinking like okay, like her
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: waters are broken. All the signs are pointing to like
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: this baby's coming soon. And she says like I was
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: like okay, Harry, like you know, listen to those words, Harry,
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: like let's get the.
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: Car going, like we need to go.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: And Harry's like yes, yes, yes, yes yes.
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: Then I hear like this real like beddown. She says,
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: we're not going to make it.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: And I was like, okay, Harry, we're not gonna make it.
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: Can you call an ambulance? So Harry is like yeap, cool.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: So we get on the phone to ambulance and I'm like,
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: you're gonna be okay, let's sit on the toilet because
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: I know that that's like can relax.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: The pelvic floor.
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: She's doing so.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: Well breathing this you know baby, and the ambulance is
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: on the phone.
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: I said, you can pop it on loud speaker.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: And these ambulance like paramedics are following this script right,
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: like they don't they don't really know, they don't not
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: know birth, but they following this script that they have
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: to do. And so it's like put her on her back,
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: is can you see the baby's head? And so poor
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: Harry is going, hey, babe, can you get on your back?
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: And she's like no oh, and I'm like no, we're
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: not getting on the back.
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: Like the baby's like coming.
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: And it doesn't just for anyone listening, if this happens,
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: it doesn't change the fact that they're sending an ambulance.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: It's just like the triage on the phone, yep. And
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: so she's got here. The lady's going like can you
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: see your head? And poor Harry's like trying to like
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: get back there and like see if he can see
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: his head.
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, Harry like trying to swalloway his hands.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: Like you can't do a vaginal exam on her, you know,
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: like this this baby's starting to crown.
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: So the ambulance turns up.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: But we've got a head, like this head is coming.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: So I'm filming. We're in the bathroom, like on the
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: tiles on the floor, get some towels, going. Harry's sort
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: of in front. I'm like you can hang up now
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: on the ambulance. Paramedics are waiting outside and a couple
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: of pushes later, like, Harry's picked up his baby and
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: like looking at this baby. And then I said, put
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: it on mum's chest and so he passed it to
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: Abby and Abby's holding his baby and she's like, oh
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: my gosh, like I've just had this baby at home,
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: Like I've got shivers telling it now, like so incredible.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: I've got it all on film and it was just amazing.
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: And these paramedics are out outside and I was like,
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: do you guys want to come in?
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: They're like, oh no, you.
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: Guys have got this, and I'm like, what turns out?
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: When the paramedics arrived, Harry's mum said, oh, yeah, they're
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: upstairs with the midwife. So these paramedics were like, oh,
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: we're sweet here. So like I said, I'm like, I'm
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: not a midwife, Like I'm a duela. Like I'm not
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: sure for this, you know. So they came in and yeah,
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: she was. She was perfect. Happy they had a little girl.
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: They already had a boy. So this was a very
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: exciting moment.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: And it sounds great, but I would not want that.
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: To call Harry the midman now because he didn't.
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: He did such a good job.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: So delivered his baby on the bathroom floor of their
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: freshly renovated bathroom. So we got like, so they go
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: off to hospital, I'm like staying to Harry's. Can you
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: start like cleaning the tiles? Like I don't want to stay.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: You've mentioned that you do have some toys with you.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: We're not going to do it on the podcast, but
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: we have a tense machine, so we're going to experience yep,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: close to what later may feel like or me. We'll
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: figure it out.
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: Well, you can do half half at the same time,
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: so who can handle more?
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go Like that, we go. So we're
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: not going to do it on the podcast episode, but
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: if you do want to watch this, it'll be on
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: our socials. Alice, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: We are going to now get into the tense machine. Yes,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: so Ash, prepare yourself. I'm assuming it's going to be intense.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: So there is, there is, there is. It's been a pleasure.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Thanks for coming.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: We really appreciate you giving us all.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: The information about doers because I had no idea really what.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: What a dealer is. So thank you.
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I'm annoyed that we didn't start this podcast before I
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: had kids, which obviously wouldn't have worked because you can't
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: do a pony podcast without kids. Don't think you'd be
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: called two Doting dads with no kids?
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, correct, unless go on to doting dog dads. Well,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: I just think I know so much more now that
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: what a shame. It's for your next marriage. My current
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: wife is Thrill. If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave, review, share,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: share and join and us on social media either TikTok,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Instagram or Facebook. There is a group. Just search two
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Doting Dads and you will find it. I have to
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: warn people though, when you search two Doting Dads, if
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: you're like me, the algorithm is like, ah, you want
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: gay content? Is that? Haven't anyone else?
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: What else?
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: That's my excuse?
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: You put you?
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: You typed in two gay dads. Didn't you love this shit?
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I typed it into pornharb and I was like, oh whoops,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: not again speaking about porn harbit. It's time I go. Sorry,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: I'll see you next time. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and connections to land,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: sea and community.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: We pay our respects to their elders past and present,
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: peoples today