Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Daniel Rawnsley about his choice of Eye of the Gorgon (1/2)

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Talks to Daniel Rawnsley about his choice of Eye of the Gorgon (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

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Record the podcast. record, the podcast.
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The Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife, The
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Sarah Jane Adventures Commentary Podcast.
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I'm your humble servant, Mr. Daniel Rawnsley, and with me, as
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always, is your host, the Statuesque Joe Ford.
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You better keep doing introductions like that, all
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right, or I will teach you how we deal with a problem like
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Daniel, all right? The greatest Sound of Music joke
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you. Know there's some great gags in
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this one Daniel. I'm starting to realise there's
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great gags in every episode. Yeah, going back on it, when
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you're going back to visit it, to revisit it, it's, you realise
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how funny it is actually, you know.
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As if people wouldn't know from that introduction served the
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podcast. What are we talking about today?
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We're talking about Eye of the Gorgon.
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So the The Sarah Jane Adventures take on the Medusa myth, the
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Greek myth of the snake haired woman whose glance turns you to
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stone. Written by newcomer Phil Ford,
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who would then go on to write the Co write The Waters of Mars
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with Russell T Davies and eventually became the lead
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writer on The Sarah Jane Adventures.
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He writes loads of these things, doesn't he?
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Yeah, and I think he's very consistent.
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Weirdly enough. I'm not sure he is that the
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absolute, like, Tip Toppist, Sarah Jane Ricer, right?
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But he's like the Bob Baker and Dave Martin when he comes along.
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He's really reliable. He's always got a sound concept.
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The dialogue's always really great.
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There's tons of incident. Maybe I'll be proven wrong as we
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go through this thing and you'll be going.
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Remember what you said about Phil Ford when we first got
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there. You know what's really
2:29
disturbing about Phil Ford is my surname is Ford and my ex's
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partner is called Phil. And so every time I hear Phil
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Ford, it's like, oh God, that's. Weird Phil Ford before he went
2:43
right for. That's a weird, a weird marriage
2:46
of my ex and me, my ex's partner and me.
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No, not my ex. Mark's ex partner.
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That's what I meant to say. Mark's ex partner.
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Oh, right, yeah. It's like, Oh my God, this is
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very strange. Anyway, Phil, I don't hold it
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against you, all right? It's just, you know, and that's
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my surname, Daniel. Some serious things are afoot in
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the way of the Gorgon. And a very different tone,
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wouldn't you say? From Invasion of the Bane and
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Revenge of the Slovene. Yeah, well, we're not in a fizzy
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drinks factory or a school anymore.
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We're so that's less sort of recognisably kid kid friendly.
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It's more a, well, there's a, a nunnery or an Abbey, a big
3:31
spooky Abbey down the road and and an assisted living home, an
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old folks home, basically lavender lawns, as we said.
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Which is the most old people home name I've ever heard in my
3:47
life. Complete with alliteration,
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Yeah. But it could be, I really think
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because this is a kids show, this could be a really basic
3:57
look assisted living for the elderly.
4:01
Do you know what I mean? Like, think of a Tracy Beaker
4:04
version of this, you know, like. I think they did do 1.
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I don't remember it, but they've done they did several episodes.
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Yeah, where I think you were. I mean, my the memory cheats,
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but I think it was the the classic kids TV thing of they
4:17
put on the sad music. So then you know, oh, OK, you're
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supposed to care at this point. Something which is a bit bit too
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simple, bit too easy. Whereas here they make the
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incredible decision to bring in Doreen Mantle from.
4:31
At the beginning, brave. And of all people, fill it the
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law as. I know Emma, Emma Thompson's
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mother. Unbelievably like prestige
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casting. Like she's done some serious
4:44
work. Filler the law.
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And this might sound like hyperbole because I'm very
4:49
capable of it, but I thought she was astonishing in this.
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She's like. Fantastic.
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So moving in that part. Yes, yes.
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So she plays B Nelson Stanley, who is kind of this sort of
5:06
mirror of Sarah Jane in a way, because she had all these
5:10
globetrotting adventures with her husband Edgar as, as
5:13
archaeologists and and even intergalactic adventures because
5:17
she mentions she met, she met the Slantarans, the silliest
5:21
race in the Galaxy. And the yetis doesn't.
5:23
She say and the Yeti, yeah, she mentions the Yeti.
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Yeah, So and, and, and yes. And they, they meet her in the,
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in Lavenderlawns. And she's, yeah, she's, she's
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suffering from Alzheimer's disease.
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And so she's only lucid at sort of certain moments.
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And, and she knows about this, this powerful Talisman.
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Again, it's a very sort of, you know, you have spooky nuns, a
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sort of alien Talisman. But she's the she's she has.
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So she has all these sort of important plot information, but
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she can only deliver it when she's lucid, which is not all
5:57
the time. And they.
5:59
So clever, isn't it? Yeah.
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And so at certain points when the plot needs it, she's like,
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she's lucid. But that's, that's how dementia
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works, right? You, you, you forget huge
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swathes of your lives until certain things are stimulated.
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Well, yes, exactly. And, and I think actually that's
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quite probably the scariest thing in the episode, which is
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it's not the Gorgon, it's not the Medusa figure, it's not the
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spooky nuns, it's. Great as they are though.
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Yeah, it's this kind of inherently horrifying disease,
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which is, I mean, we all, we all learn in life that, you know,
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one day our, our bodies are eventually going to betray us.
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And, and but losing your mind is even is even scarier because you
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lose any kind of sense of who you are really.
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You lose any comprehension of the world around you and, you
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know, your consciousness kind of ebbs away and, and so, and then
6:56
you, so then you that makes you confused and then helpless and
6:59
then afraid. And so, you know, to anyone
7:02
who's known, who has relatives or who's known people with
7:05
dementia, I would expect this would hit home, you know?
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And like I think you and I are going to share some stories now.
7:14
Like, do you know, I lost my mom and my nan in very quick
7:21
succession. Yeah, my nan to long term
7:25
dementia, like like it was four or five years.
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So she started off just gently sort of losing her memory.
7:33
And by the time she went, she just didn't know anybody at all.
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And I lost my mum to cancer and that was like 5 months from
7:40
diagnosis to her passing. So very, very quick.
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I think, and I don't mean this in a, in a unpleasant way, I
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think the cancer was the kinder way to go because my poor Nan, I
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mean, I, I, I called it like the the longest way to die.
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It's just a slow erosion of everything that makes you, you,
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you lose your identity. You know, in the end, my
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sister-in-law would visit my nan at the home that she was at the
8:14
dementia care home. And my nan just forgot every
8:19
time that my mum had passed and she thought my sister-in-law was
8:23
my, was my mum. And they said you need to just,
8:26
you need to just go with what she's saying because otherwise
8:29
you're literally going to keep telling her that she's lost her
8:32
daughter. Like.
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Every time you come to visit and it's just cruel.
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So my sister-in-law had to pretend to be my mum.
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I mean, it was just absurd. And, you know, she went from
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being a very the, the sweetest, kindest, gentlest woman the
8:49
most. You know, she loved to bake a
8:50
cake. She worked in a sweet shop.
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Like, imagine the perfect grandmother.
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Yeah, my nanny stepped toe that surname.
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God bless her. That's a brilliant nickname.
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Actually, to a paranoid, frightened, she was convinced
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people were trying to kill her in that home.
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Violent. You know, she hit me a good
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couple of times and she never laid a finger on me before.
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No, no, I mean it was just horrible.
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It she just wasn't my nan anymore, right?
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It's cruel and obviously they're not going to show that side of
9:21
dementia here. No, because it's a kids show.
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But they do. They show that there is a cruel
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disease and that you basically she has kind of lost herself.
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Yeah, yeah. And so and so he's only able to
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sort of to find the person she wants was because of, well,
9:40
because of Sarah Jane, because of Maria and, and briefly Luke
9:46
as well at the beginning, who, who, who, because he's so sort
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of new to this whole world around him.
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He, he could have somehow immediately makes her trust him.
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And so there's this immediate bond almost between her and him
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at the very outset, which I find quite sweet.
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Maybe she recognises him as an alien, you know, because you
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know all these aliens. Well, she gives him the Talisman
10:07
almost immediately. Doesn't she?
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Yeah, it's take this bling, bling.
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I mean, it's kind of, yeah, it's, I had a similar story with
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my great aunt Liz, who was this larger than life figure we had.
10:19
She has, if you think of any of the sort of camp, sort of posh
10:24
people in Doctor Who she had, she was kind of like that.
10:27
She was like, oh darling. Oh, wonderful.
10:31
And she had this cavalier King Charles spaniel that she carried
10:34
around with her everywhere. Who was her, the love of her
10:36
life after she lost her? Heart what?
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Was it called? Zaza.
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Oh, wonderful. It was slightly complicated by
10:45
the fact that she was also massively racist.
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But it. Was that kind of incredibly kind
10:50
of delicate handling of a family member where we chose not to
10:54
call her out on it, even though it was quite uncomfortable
10:58
sometimes in in discussions. And one of the most difficult
11:02
conversations I think I ever had was we went to visit her one
11:05
day. And this was when she was in the
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throes of dementia. And she took us out, my sister
11:11
and I for lunch at a restaurant. And it was basically having the
11:15
same conversation four times, basically going through the same
11:19
questions. And she was sort of saying, are
11:21
you back at the school? You know, have you joined the
11:23
swim team? And again, rather than correct
11:26
her because we didn't want to make her upset, because we
11:28
didn't want to make her distressed, you know, we played
11:30
along even though it was incredibly frustrating for us
11:34
and quite upsetting, I think, for my sister as well.
11:38
So, yeah, so and there's that scene in in the second episode
11:44
of this story where Maria is having to be, is dealing with
11:49
this incredible emotional distress because she thinks
11:51
she's lost her dad and she's racing against the clock.
11:54
She's only got 90 minutes to to find out where you know what,
11:59
how to defeat the Gorgon. And she's trying to get B to
12:03
remember and B sort of keeps going on about her husband and
12:06
she's trying to get the answers out of her.
12:08
So that felt very, very true to life, actually, even, you know,
12:12
and even for a young actress like Yasmin Paige.
12:16
There were certain scenes in Episode 2 that I thought was
12:20
really poignant, like so sensitively done.
12:23
It could have been so glib. It could have been so one note,
12:26
you know, or comic. They could have just gone down
12:29
that old, crazy old lady. Crazy old lady, yeah.
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That's what the woman who runs the nursing home goes.
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Oh, yeah, the world one sees it. They all see it, you know?
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But even there, there was like a hint of, yes, this is how old
12:40
people are treated when they go to nursing homes, you know, like
12:44
they're all Gaga. And I think even the fact that
12:48
they're in this nursing home, which is clearly a very nice
12:50
place, it's sort of, it's a beautiful grounds and a lovely
12:53
building and everything. We do like to tuck it all away,
12:56
don't we? Exactly.
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We don't really want to deal with it and like when I
13:01
volunteered for Age Concern, I used to go round.
13:04
I did a befriending service where I went round and one of
13:06
the old guys I saw it was to spend some time with him whilst
13:12
his carer was with his wife who had dementia.
13:18
And so we would just play Scrabble and and sometimes watch
13:21
TV or a film or something and talk about things.
13:23
It was just some company. I just want people to talk to
13:26
him. Because he was dealing with that
13:27
all the time. But then there was quite a few
13:29
times where she was still there while I was there.
13:33
And I just remember she was obsessed with when lunch and
13:38
dinner was. So she so we would eat and then
13:41
straight away she'd put down her fork and go.
13:43
When are we having lunch? Yeah, straight away.
13:45
And then 2 seconds later, when are we having lunch?
13:48
Like it, it was just in the forefront of her mind all the
13:50
time. All, all of that sort of long
13:52
term memory had sort of gone, gone.
13:55
And all of her short term memory.
13:56
It was just terrifying. Yeah.
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It's it's something I wouldn't wish on anybody if I wanted.
14:01
Well, I mean, my dad is, or is he who's still, he's just, he
14:05
turned 75. This, this this month actually,
14:08
and very still very sound of mind, very healthy, you know,
14:12
but he has when, when the subject of dementia comes up,
14:15
we've spoken about it a couple of times and he, he says half
14:18
jokingly, but he says, you know, if this ever happens to me, just
14:22
push me off a Cliff. Oh, my mum used to say put a
14:24
bullet in my head like she yeah, I was like, mum, come on now,
14:29
like. Yeah, I do that.
14:31
But they. Kind of don't know what to say
14:32
to that, but I mean, you know. Like, I mean, I have had, I've
14:35
had dark thoughts at some point and you have like, you know,
14:37
what would I, what would I rather because like cancer is
14:41
rife in my family and so is dementia.
14:43
And I'm like if I had a choice or I mean, I don't know.
14:47
It's like that. What is it?
14:48
It's that that Led Zeppelin lyric, you know, hope I die
14:51
before I get old sort of thing. But I mean, look at the
14:54
conversation we're having here, right?
14:55
We're watching The Sarah Jane Adventures.
14:58
And The Sarah Jane Adventures, Yeah.
14:59
You know, and I think this is handling this stuff better
15:04
sometimes than Doctor Who had or some of this stuff.
15:07
Than Torchwood, I think I was, I was thinking of that episode in
15:12
series one Out of Time, where one of the characters who's out
15:18
of time, John realises that his son is now old and he has to go
15:24
and visit him in a care home. And you know, it is sensitively
15:27
done as I suppose. But what it comes to this
15:30
absolutely nihilistic conclusion of basically him then killing
15:34
himself does? He try and gas himself in a car.
15:37
He. Does.
15:37
Yeah. And then Jack goes and sits with
15:39
him, and it's just so depressingly bleak because he
15:43
thinks, well, there's nothing. I've got nothing left to live
15:45
for. And he's basically had to meet
15:48
his own son while he's still young.
15:51
And oh, it's just, I mean, it's just so bleak.
15:53
Whereas this is quite gently sort of getting the message
15:58
across, you know? Like it could have so been so
16:01
pony if they'd have dared to gone down that, oh, her
16:04
Alzheimer's was cured. I'd have been going.
16:07
Oh, what are you doing? Like, please don't tell kids
16:09
this. All they've got to find is some
16:11
bit of bling. Put it around the necks there
16:13
and. Everything will be all right.
16:15
Of course she doesn't, but she gets a gift and that's
16:18
beautiful. It's the right.
16:20
It's the right. It's the proper ending to have.
16:22
I mean, I genuinely was blinking back to you.
16:24
Well, I don't cry ATV a great deal, but I thought that it's
16:28
just so well judged and that sort of wistful how she's always
16:33
sort of far away, full of de lore in this, you know, And then
16:36
she sort of dragged back as all of a sudden she's in sharp
16:38
focus, you know, like, what do you mean the Gorgon, you know?
16:41
Yeah. So this sort of dotting that
16:43
suddenly sharpens into this sort of resolve almost, you know.
16:47
He said to you in a message earlier today.
16:50
Like I I've I'm so impressed already with what we've seen of
16:55
the Sarah Jane event. There were only three stories
16:57
in, for fuck's sake. And I'm convinced, I'm
17:01
absolutely convinced, not just by what has been said in
17:04
interviews. I really think they wanted to
17:06
hand Liz Sladen something really good like like she deserves
17:12
something good and let's pull in the best directors great writers
17:17
let because you know visually this Daniel I was watching this
17:21
like this could all be Doctor Who how this.
17:24
Works, you know. Which is I think has a bigger
17:27
budget, right? It does.
17:29
It does, I think, but you you wouldn't know it from some of
17:33
the camera moves in this. I mean, we'll talk about them,
17:35
but we. Haven't even got to Graham
17:37
Harper yet. Yes, that's that's soon, isn't
17:41
it? Well, I'm so sorry, Wax lyrical
17:43
like this. Should we go in and watch the
17:45
thing and maybe we'll we'll talk about it as we go?
17:48
As we go. OK, hold on, I'll find the
17:50
episode. You can't.
17:52
No, you start off. Should I count as in?
17:54
Yes. OK, hold on.
17:57
Oh, right. I think I'm ready.
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Oh, well, speaking music. I'll, I'll talk about music in
18:05
this because I love the the Gorgon music that they found in
18:11
this. Very.
18:13
Yeah, if I remember it. Yeah, well, I'll just by looking
18:15
at the pictures I remember. Oh OK, there's lots of great
18:19
Chrissy stuff in this as well. She's a fucking monster after
18:23
so. Speaking of Gorgons, yeah, the
18:25
the mother from hell was back again.
18:28
It was, I mean, we're making this sound terribly so it was
18:31
still very funny, this, yes. Very funny.
18:34
She's got a statue of Mark Allen in her front room.
18:38
The woman's obsessed. OK, well like how does it?
18:42
Go for it. Hey to lavender lawns in 321.
18:50
Off we go. Oh spooky pan in.
18:54
Do you recognise this house? It's the hotel that Donna Donna
18:58
and her family go to in turn left.
19:01
Oh yeah, Spalda, Spalda. Oh my God, it's Mrs. Warboys.
19:10
Yes, he gets to have the Oh that is a creepy image of the nun
19:15
suddenly appearing like that again.
19:17
It's a sort of slightly misdirection of like a nun
19:19
haunting this old folks home, which is why they investigate in
19:22
the first place. But that does feel like a very,
19:25
totally, very different We're sort of in sort of mild horror
19:28
territory now rather than science fiction of last week.
19:31
Yes, well, they name check the Gorgon with Christopher Lee and
19:35
Barbara Stanley. And I think that is the sort of
19:38
Hammer Horror vibe that they're going for with the sort of
19:41
sinister nuns and and not the countryside.
19:43
Oh. Beautiful.
19:45
I mean, what would you do, Daniel, if you woke up in the
19:46
middle of the night and a sinister nun was staring at you
19:50
from across? The I mean that is playing on
19:52
that childhood fear of I and you do sometimes wake up when you
19:55
think is there someone in the room with me?
19:57
And that is quite scary. I've got that side man head up
20:01
on top of the cupboard. You know, the moon hits it
20:03
sometimes. I'm like, Oh my God.
20:05
Oh, I love Dory, man. Did you like Mrs. War Boys in?
20:11
Oh yes? Well, what does she say, miss?
20:14
Miss Ealing, 1951. You should never sniff a live
20:18
wasp, Mr. Bell drew, she said at one point.
20:21
I did not sniff a live wasp. I sniffed a rhododendron.
20:25
Oh, here she is. Philadelaur, yes.
20:29
And again, that immediate connection between our and Luke,
20:33
and he's just sort of fascinated.
20:34
He's just curious, I think. That's they're so gentle
20:37
together, the two of them. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
20:41
Definitely. I thought as well, like I don't
20:44
get me wrong, I think Liz Sladen was amazingly good in the first
20:47
two. I thought they they wrote her in
20:49
a very much more sensitive way. In this episode.
20:52
She's less crabby and more she's very understanding of what Maria
20:56
is going through. She's very empathetic to all the
20:59
LD residents. Yeah, she gets to be more of a
21:03
sort of well, bit more of a mother figure really than than
21:07
even the oh, here she is the suitcase from how you.
21:11
See what he was mixing. I would lick Alan Spoon any day,
21:14
you know. Yeah, so he gets to be quite
21:17
sculpted this episode, doesn't he?
21:19
Uncle Boy. He's extremely erect at one
21:23
point, isn't he? Thank you.
21:26
Thank you. So now I mean this reminds me so
21:31
much of my sister, the thoughtless cow just turning up
21:35
in her kids lives when they thought they got shot of her
21:39
and. She makes it very clear in the
21:41
opening. Well, in that scene, she makes
21:43
it clear that she's literally just there to get back at Ivan.
21:47
You know, it's not just because she wants to spend more time
21:50
with her family. And Alan can see the House of
21:52
Cards falling straight away like this is not going to go well for
21:56
Maria. And he has to put on a brake
21:58
they face and sort of pretend everything's fine, yeah.
22:01
You see how Luke's in sort of denim now.
22:04
You know, he's getting a bit hip, isn't he?
22:06
Yeah, I think he's emulating Maria because she wears that
22:10
denim jacket a lot, doesn't she? So I think he's sort of taking
22:13
his cues from her. I love, don't you love the idea
22:16
of B? And what's her partner's call
22:20
name? Edgar.
22:22
B and Edgar, like the doctor and companion, having all of these
22:25
adventures in Egypt and places like that.
22:27
Yeah, she seems to be sort of like this character from a sort
22:30
of lost Doctor Who story in a way where she.
22:32
Come on, Big Finish the B adventures.
22:35
The B Yeah, the BBV. I'll tell you what, I'm not sure
22:40
I could do a good fill of the law.
22:42
RBB and you, B Edgar. All right, we're ready for it.
22:47
And she does. This thing with her.
22:49
Oh, and that is Sarah Crowden, who runs the care home.
22:53
She, oh, she's great. Graham Crowden's daughter, yeah.
22:57
Oh my God, look at her. Of course.
23:00
It's like she's got his face and everything.
23:03
Oh, you ever seen Waiting for God with Graham Crowden?
23:06
No, Arthur, that's the one I'm missing.
23:08
You love that, you know, you don't mind a bit of comedy with
23:12
a bit of darkness to it, do you? No, not at.
23:14
All Yeah, I think you'd really like that.
23:16
Oh, I might have to get you the set of that.
23:17
You know, I call it a little gift for doing this.
23:21
Well, Speaking of gifts, she she's about to give Luke the the
23:26
Talisman, which she's hidden in this tree trunk.
23:29
I like the fact that with her performance, when she forgets
23:31
things, she kind of just sort of does this slightly frustrated,
23:34
sort of knocks her forehead a little bit again.
23:36
Oh, what is it again? Sort of when she's.
23:39
Frustrated, she doesn't get angry.
23:41
No, exactly. It's very gentle, isn't it?
23:44
Just trying to grasp this stuff and it isn't there.
23:49
Oh, green, green effect. Talisman, isn't it?
23:52
Oh, don't you love as well? Because that is true.
23:54
What? Clyde's doing all the chores for
23:56
Doreen Mantle. Yeah, you know, did you ever get
23:59
roped in to do all the chores? For you, of course, yes, of
24:02
course, yeah, yeah. To help.
24:04
And that was the interesting that all the kids responded to
24:06
the old people in different ways.
24:08
Where Clyde is incredibly dismissive, like, you know, do
24:10
do old people tell you to do everything, you know, and
24:13
whereas Maria's sort of so empathetic towards B and Luke is
24:18
just sort of fascinated by her, you know, no.
24:20
It's just like nurses in the background and like other
24:24
residents, like they didn't have to fill the space, so they just
24:28
went past it there in the background.
24:30
Oh, yes, yeah, exactly. Oh, she's looking for her
24:33
binoculars. Show what Alice Trout man her
24:35
camera work the the the angles that she gets in this.
24:40
Yeah, some of the sexiest crane shots swooping.
24:43
Swoops. Yeah.
24:44
You know, when the cars go off and things like that.
24:47
It's. Yeah.
24:47
And the way she shoots the Abbey from below, Really menacing.
24:52
Yeah, when she walks up to the Abbey later on.
24:54
That's really good. Yeah, the establishing shots are
24:56
amazing in this one. So this is very much like I seen
24:59
between my and my and my sister when I was growing up, All
25:02
right? My mum would come in, my sister
25:05
would overreact, they'd have a blazing row.
25:08
It's very real, I think. Yeah, and it's funny because
25:11
Maria get sort of lashes out at a she's actually quite
25:15
unlikeable in this episode, but in AI think it's deliberate and
25:17
it's it's quite brave for for them to to write it that way
25:21
because she then sort of has to learn to apologize to.
25:25
So we wish she kind of apologizes for her behaviour to
25:28
Sarah Jane, to her mother, to her dad.
25:31
So she's, you know, she's. So there's also a big sort of
25:34
theme of forgiveness here, I think.
25:36
Agree. As I was watching episode 1, I
25:39
was like, Chrissy, do you know for once, I don't know if I like
25:41
you in this, but then in episode 2, the scene with the statue,
25:45
which is so ridiculous on paper and so well played, but she
25:49
confesses to the statue. I always mess things up, you
25:52
know, I do. Sarah Jane doesn't know what
25:55
she's missing out on and she sort of touches him on the chest
25:58
and it's just a genuine moment of confession from.
26:01
Her self-awareness, really. You are aware that you're a
26:04
monster. Oh, Clyde here just said, oh,
26:08
well, when I, when I grow up, technology had moved on.
26:11
So I can put my brain in a, in a computer or something, which I
26:15
think Sarah thinks is all that sounds very Cybermen, you know?
26:19
Just when you think that, oh, look at that, swoop into the nun
26:22
by the tree. Stepping out behind the tree.
26:25
Are we supposed to think, my God, it's a ghost?
26:28
Yeah, I think that, well, again, because it's a silent nun so
26:31
far, so it's been very, it plays on that again, that sort of
26:35
Hammer Horror thing of the the creepy nuns.
26:38
And this, all this stuff with Maria sort of going, oh, maybe I
26:42
want her to get to know my friends, maybe I'll like that
26:45
does feel very CBBC to me. But it's how all the adults
26:49
handle her that I think feels mature.
26:51
Yes, yes, yeah, exactly. So she, you know, she has these
26:54
sort of, yeah, sort of. Tantrums.
26:56
Strident 10th tantrums and. In episode 2, she goes at Sarah
27:01
Jane, doesn't she? It's all down to you.
27:03
I wish I've. Never seen any.
27:04
Aliens. And then Sarah Jane just looks
27:06
at her and gives her a hug and she goes.
27:08
We're gonna sort it out, don't worry.
27:11
And she, you know, she accepts all the guilt and just like,
27:13
yeah. Look at these shots of the
27:15
Abbey. Ah, that is just amazing when
27:18
she walks up. Mrs. Gribbins as as is that her
27:22
name? Sarah Crowd?
27:23
Yeah, Mrs. Gribbins. Ribbins.
27:25
Yeah, If you think she's a great sort of camp villain, you say
27:28
nothing yet until you see Sister Helena.
27:31
Oh, Beth. Beth Goddard, isn't it?
27:34
Yeah, it's great. Oh, here we go.
27:39
I swear he's getting more jets of gas every time he comes out.
27:42
He. Wants to show off Yeah, he's
27:45
he's actually quite funny in this, too, where he says Sarah
27:47
Jane, do you know that Lucas brought an alien artifact into
27:51
the attic immediately rounding. Yeah.
27:55
Oh, God. I mean, he always dobs them in.
27:58
It's very funny when he does. There's one where they follow
28:00
her on the date with Nigel Havers, and then they run back
28:02
to the attic and pretend they've been doing their homework.
28:05
And then Mr. Smith comes out and goes, oh, yes, I think I have
28:10
tracked Sarah Jane. She's in the house and like Mr.
28:12
Smith, what are you doing? But he's sort of, we don't
28:17
realise at this point, do we, what's happening?
28:19
Yes, he he's surprisingly interested in in the Talisman
28:23
that they get. They've given him to scan.
28:26
Arthur, we should keep an eye on this computer.
28:27
Daniel, you know. Yeah, yeah, yes.
28:31
And it's funny because the, the way he describes the haunting is
28:36
actually as a sort of like sort of the, the psychic activity
28:42
that it leaves impressions on the landscape or whatever it is.
28:45
It's, it's quite similar to how they described it in I think in
28:47
Torchwood. It's two shows that sort of
28:50
describe haunting in this very scientific way.
28:52
I mean, I don't know how old that idea is.
28:54
The oldest I know on TV is like the stone tape.
28:58
It was that same thing that it's all recorded, you know, in the
29:01
bricks, all the horrors that have happened of the past.
29:05
Oh, this is a bit wet, Maria. Sorry.
29:07
Go ahead. Oh, so doesn't you record all
29:09
the nice stuff as well? Why don't we ever see those
29:11
things, the nice things that happened in the house?
29:15
Yeah, why? Why?
29:17
And then, and this is the thing where he, Maria, comes in, slams
29:20
the door, and Sarah sort of says it's, you know, there's
29:23
sensitive alien equipment in here.
29:25
But then she then they go off together and the boys get left
29:28
behind. There's shorthand though, where
29:30
she just goes mum's back and Sarah just puts her arm around
29:33
her. She doesn't.
29:35
She doesn't have to ask. Yeah.
29:36
It's so good. Chrissy's got the same colour as
29:41
that wool. There's nothing going on with
29:44
Carlos. I've got it too good with her
29:45
van. All right, But I like that he
29:47
calls her out. Yes, he says.
29:50
How you know, why, Why did you come and dump yourself on us?
29:53
You know, and you broke up our home sort of six months ago.
29:58
And I think she's getting it. She is getting it, isn't she?
30:01
Like she's realising. I think she gets it in the
30:02
scene, but she just doesn't admit it.
30:04
She just doesn't want to admit it.
30:06
Somebody, someone, sometimes someone has to say.
30:07
You know what? You're being a selfish cunt, all
30:09
right? Like people need to tell me
30:12
Quite. Oh, here she is, Sister Helena.
30:15
Sister Helena, Yes. She's just got a clipped, camp
30:20
sort of villainous nature to her, isn't she?
30:23
It's a bit more of the sort of Miss Foster poise than the
30:26
Slavine from last week. Yeah, it's down a bit, isn't it?
30:31
Down a bit more sort of self aware, but sort of, you know,
30:35
still icy. The ice Queens, same thing.
30:38
The actress will want a word with you.
30:40
Sorry, love. Bye.
30:42
You're going to be turned to stone.
30:43
Oh, look at her fingernails. Yeah, now the Abyss actually is
30:47
genuinely creepy. I think she's creepier when
30:50
she's got the veil. The hooded veil, Yeah.
30:52
When she takes. It's just that sort of feeling
30:56
of dread that, you know, and, and the bit where she, yeah, she
31:00
literally turns her to stone and it just cuts away as she
31:03
screams. That is actually properly scary.
31:05
Do we not see the face until the cliffhanger?
31:07
That's great. We see it, yes.
31:09
We see it in the in, yes, In the cliffhanger.
31:11
That's right. Yeah.
31:12
Oh. I liked what story mentals name
31:16
in this. Mrs. Randall, I like her saying,
31:19
you know, well, back in the day, you know, I was in all the
31:21
papers, she goes, are you bringing a photographer?
31:25
There's a bit of that vanity, yeah.
31:29
It's nice. I'd like to think that, you
31:31
know, these people in the nursing homes, they do form good
31:33
friendships. I hope so.
31:36
Because that's why you should watch it, you know, waiting for
31:38
God. Oh, they're absolute terrorism
31:40
that doesn't know. And you've got Basil the out,
31:44
the sex fiend who's trying to have it off with all the old
31:47
legs. Old folks do the darndest
31:51
things. Oh.
31:55
God I just my heart warmth whenever I say full of the law.
31:59
I saw her in, oh, this Kenneth Branagh film, Peter's Friends,
32:04
where she's the sort of housekeeper who knows what's
32:06
been going on, but she doesn't say it until the very, very end
32:10
of the film. And that's makes it so much more
32:13
impactful, you know? It's not until Sarah's here as
32:16
well that she says the word Sontara and I call Sarah's like,
32:19
what did you say? Yeah, they all think she's barmy
32:23
until she says that. And then she and then she goes,
32:25
oh, we had a ray gun. Yeah, and it's up, OK,
32:28
literally. The Civil.
32:30
Race in the Galaxy. Looks like a potato.
32:34
She goes like it's very funny, the cork and I saw that at the
32:39
flicks. Yes.
32:41
Well, the actor she doesn't mention because she mentions
32:43
Christopher Lee and Barbara Shelley.
32:45
She doesn't mention Peter Cushing in the role of the
32:48
Doctor. Well, Barbara Shelley was in
32:51
Doctor Who, you know. She was.
32:53
In Planet Fire. That's right, yeah.
32:57
Oh, this one. This is the bit I was telling
32:59
you about last week. Oh yes, she's calling.
33:01
She's. Got Alan's, got the pound and
33:04
the fiver. And she snatches the fiver out
33:07
of his hand. She does.
33:11
What is this? Shows Abby roofs don't fix
33:13
themselves. That's one miracle we haven't
33:15
had. Yet, well, and The funny thing
33:20
is, is, you know, because Luke's so sort of got no filter, he's
33:24
just completely straightforwardly honest with
33:25
her. And Clyde's like, you know what
33:26
you're doing. But this is great.
33:29
Like, this is what Sarah Jane does so well, right?
33:31
She's been really since like, get me the Talisman.
33:33
She's holding the door. She's about to come in.
33:35
And then Alan's like, oh, hello, sister.
33:37
And suddenly the tension's gone. Yeah, yeah.
33:41
Because later on, that's quite a sort of, quite an adult sort of
33:44
kidnapping scene, you know? Jesus Christ, will you look at
33:48
Alan in this scene? I mean, Oh my word.
33:50
Toss of the ass he's. Great, he.
33:53
Looks made of marble. Pass me the Taurama Salata.
33:57
I'm going to cover him. No, sorry.
33:59
What is Salata? It's something you spread on
34:04
appetizers. I suppose that's that's quite
34:07
appropriate then, isn't it? Fishy.
34:09
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
34:11
Bit spicy? OK, pass me the Maple syrup
34:13
then. Oh, another great.
34:16
Oh, look at that shot of the house from below.
34:19
Yeah. Great.
34:20
Just big dominates. If you just give it different
34:22
angles it looks more interesting.
34:25
Yeah, this is more the Alice Troughton from Midnight than the
34:30
Doctor's daughter, isn't it? Than the doctor's daughter.
34:32
Yeah, yeah, very much. Well, actually, this might be
34:35
her best her most her most ostentatiously directed episode,
34:38
which I kind of like. Be right, I don't know if she
34:41
goes on to do any more after this.
34:43
I don't remember, but yeah, yeah.
34:46
Oh, this was our song. That's the LP.
34:50
Yeah, I think there's one of the songs is Slow Boat to China,
34:53
isn't it? And the, the thing with her,
34:56
well, the thing with her husband then Edgar is he turns out to be
34:59
sort of the trigger for her memories.
35:00
Because as soon as you bring him up, that's when she sort of sort
35:04
of looks nostalgically, nostalgically back into the
35:07
past. It's a good night, sweetheart.
35:10
In the second episode, that's. Yes.
35:12
That's right. That's a very nostalgic SO.
35:15
Again. Yeah, all about sort of.
35:17
I mean. Wistful.
35:19
We were given some advice to like do a reminiscence set for
35:24
my Nan and it really worked. You know when you pulled out
35:27
things, you know old things from her past, it really did stir up
35:30
the memories. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:32
There's this because there's this argument that like, oh,
35:35
remember when is like the lowest form of conversation.
35:37
But actually in for, for, for for the elderly.
35:42
I think it's, it's incredibly important because sometimes
35:44
that's all they have, you know, their memories.
35:47
Oh God, that's all I do on this podcast.
35:48
Remember asking people to name when they came in to Doctor Who
35:52
and their childhoods and all? This exactly.
35:55
Have you looked out the window lately?
35:57
We don't want to remember now. Oh, and I don't I, Oh my God.
36:03
I'm just going to keep saying I love this.
36:04
But all the research as well. Yeah, this is kind of the
36:07
educate and entertaining bit, isn't it?
36:09
Because Maria surprisingly doesn't know much about the
36:14
Medusa myth and the Gorgon, and so Sarah Jane sort of sits her
36:17
down and brings out this book and shows her illustrations of
36:20
Perseus having cut off her head and.
36:22
Great smart dog. She goes, oh, it's fairy tales.
36:24
And Sarah goes, no, no, he's a Greek myth.
36:26
Maria, that's quite different. And by the way, fairy tales have
36:30
a basis in fact. Which is a great because half of
36:32
Doctor Who is made-up our fairy tale stories.
36:36
Oh yeah, Daniel, a beautiful nymph with golden hair.
36:40
Is that the one we saw in the mind rubber?
36:44
Stop notion sort of snakes. Yes, which also that was the the
36:48
link that has with with this is that Zoe brain box Zoe from the
36:52
future didn't know about the Medusa myths and Travan had to
36:55
explain it to her. That line, I can't believe they
36:59
go away with that. They cut off a Ridge.
37:02
It must be a man thing, said Sarah.
37:06
Yeah, men oppressing women. Yeah, must be a man.
37:09
Thing, Well, yeah. And the Medusa thing is, is very
37:11
much tied up with sort of the the sort of men oppressing women
37:16
in a way. It's been reclaimed now by
37:17
feminists, by the sort of feminist movement as you know,
37:22
women being viewed as monstrous by men and turning men to stone.
37:26
I mean, isn't that the basis of religion?
37:29
Nuns here, but isn't that putting women in their place?
37:33
I like the fact that this is a bunch of all female nuns that
37:35
are in charge of themselves. Yeah, very much so.
37:38
Run. By this wise and old woman can
37:41
turn men into stone. Into stone, yeah.
37:44
So they kind of, it's very much the tooth and claw thing of they
37:47
they turned from God and worshipped the Gorgon, I
37:50
suppose. Clyde went.
37:52
As you know, you've probably got loads of slimy tentacles under.
37:55
There she goes. You've watched too much TV.
37:59
Yes, we've been watching The Sarah Jane Adventures.
38:01
Thank you. Yeah, now this would be an
38:04
upsetting sort of kidnapping scene, because Luke's reaction
38:08
as he's taken away is quite, quite.
38:10
Real. In fact, it's more real than
38:12
when Donna is in the Runaway. Yeah.
38:15
And it's only sort of slightly diluted, I think on on purpose
38:18
by, yeah, that sort of Kung Fu shove that she gives class.
38:21
And then also then Clyde phoning up Sarah Jane and going.
38:25
Luke's been nabbed by a nun, yes.
38:28
But it is played for real, isn't it?
38:30
But it's played for real because they.
38:31
Really. They grab his head and shove him
38:33
into the car. We're doing child napping now,
38:37
for God's sakes. He'll be on the slave trade
38:40
before we know it. Oh no, he's just going to the
38:42
Abbey. Yes, they just wanted to get
38:44
Sarah Jane's attention. So as, as they sort of later
38:48
explain, but again, you know, he, he, he, he comes up sort of
38:53
all panicked and she's like, well, calm down.
38:54
And then she immediately sort of takes him onto the adventure,
38:57
like, let's go and get it. Don't you think the kids are
39:00
like, one of the things I always say that where I compare the
39:03
kids from Sarah Jane to those horrific Muppets from the
39:06
Moffett era is, is the kids in Sarah Jane are so competent.
39:11
Yeah. And they drive the stories.
39:14
And in this, I mean, look, she gets out, obviously.
39:16
Does her press pass or whoever she's going to be?
39:18
Felicity Barnes, Yes. And then they sort of sneak out
39:22
the car and they're off to do their own investigation.
39:24
Yes, no. So she, she deliberately brought
39:26
them along. This is not them sort of
39:27
sneaking on when they're not asked to, you know, so.
39:29
But even when they're like they're trapped, they get out of
39:34
being locked up twice on their own.
39:37
Yes, twice. Yes, they.
39:38
Find the statues in the garden. Maria's the one that saves the
39:41
day. I mean, these kids are just so
39:43
competent, you know? You can't imagine Angie and
39:47
Artie competent, can you? Yes, put me down.
39:51
You're stupid. What were those horrible Muppets
39:54
called in in Forest of the Night?
39:55
Maeve or whatever. Oh, Maeve, that's why.
39:58
Yes, imagine that TV show about those kids.
40:02
Sarah Jane would like we'd sort of shut herself up in her house
40:06
and never come out. Look at this beautiful study.
40:10
Now this was Cardiff Castle I believe they feel.
40:12
It's gorgeous, but there's so much money.
40:15
It's so rich. Yeah, they went to quite a few
40:19
different locations for the whole, for the whole Abbey, I
40:22
think to give different. So it looks a lot bigger than it
40:24
probably is. I think it's very clever because
40:27
I think for series one they had a fair budget for the Sarah Jane
40:31
Avengers and I know their budget was cut with every subsequent
40:35
year. I.
40:36
Was there? Yeah, yeah.
40:37
So they, they were sort of losing money as they go.
40:39
So you'll see like the special effects get more sophisticated
40:42
as they go. It's really impressive how they
40:44
spend the money, but you'll start to notice like maybe less
40:47
cast members and things like that in episodes.
40:50
Yeah, yeah, OK. But this first series it does
40:53
look pretty. Expansive.
40:56
Yeah. And expensive, I suppose.
40:57
Yeah, yeah. Well, this is a very Clyde
40:59
moment where they stop at the door and he's like, well, what
41:01
if the Gorgon's in there? And she said, well, you can hold
41:03
my hand if you like. And.
41:04
And he's like, no, because he wants to be cool.
41:07
You know, he goes right in. I'd have any excuse to hold your
41:10
Aunt Daniel. Come on, let's get in there
41:11
quick. Oh, and don't you love it as
41:13
well? When they see the statues, you
41:14
sort of get that scream noise that.
41:16
Yeah. Yes, exactly.
41:18
And then the Gorgon sort of malevolently standing in the
41:21
doorway. Now this is a good line from
41:25
Sarah Jane as well where she says for a, you know, for such
41:27
an intelligent boy, you can be incredibly stupid sometimes.
41:30
And then holds. Him and then holds him, but
41:32
she's, you know, immediately forgiving.
41:34
Oh, here she is, Sister Helena. Sister Helena.
41:39
Picking in here was the fastest way of attracting your
41:41
attention. Yeah, now actually there's this
41:45
was I think was removed from the final script, but the abbess is
41:49
meant to be Sister, Helena's sister and.
41:53
Why was he moved? I don't know, I think maybe
41:56
because they figured the age gap wouldn't work is that she became
42:00
the Abbess when she was 25 and sort of, and, you know, I don't
42:03
know. And then she then mentions, oh,
42:05
she's been in the Abbess for 200 years or something.
42:08
So yeah, she's talking. Good, then this is the hell and
42:10
aren't she? Yeah.
42:12
Exactly. Did you see?
42:12
The way she came, she clicked her fingers like really high,
42:16
like bring the. Demonstrative there.
42:21
Oh, she's great. I did I all the villains this
42:24
year. I mean, you wait till the next
42:26
one, Daniel. Oh, he's hilarious, that man as
42:32
well. Like we're three stories into
42:34
this series. How?
42:36
Look at how this cast has all gelled together.
42:39
I know exactly. I mean, Clyde just feels like
42:42
he's been there forever, you know?
42:43
He was only there last last time, last episode, you know,
42:48
and this is also, this is the beginning of him and Luke's sort
42:51
of comedy double act together where he's always trying to sort
42:54
of kind of teach Luke to be cool and Luke's trying to sort of,
42:58
you know, impress him a little bit and.
43:00
So it's really relevant in code like actually that's that's a
43:03
bit a whole sort of plot thread running through that.
43:05
Yes, he wants to be seen as funny, doesn't he?
43:08
Or something. Like that, by the end, he goes,
43:09
do you know what? I'm never going to be cool.
43:11
Never mind. I like this as well.
43:15
You know how when we do? Do you remember like Time Lash
43:17
when we learnt about the missing adventures of the 3rd Doctor and
43:20
Joe on Car Fell? Well, here we're learning about
43:23
the missing adventures of Bea and her husband with the Gorgon.
43:28
Yes, Nelson Stanley and her middlesome husbands. 50 years
43:33
ago we almost got the Talisman. Yeah, so that's why there's only
43:37
one Gorgon left, because as you know, it follows the legend of
43:40
the There were three Gorgons Once Upon a time, and both have
43:43
died and. So I mean, look at what we've
43:45
said so far. We've got the dementia thread
43:48
running through this, we've got the character piece with Maria
43:50
and her mum running through this and Alan, we've got a great
43:54
monster in this, we've got a very fabulous camp villain,
43:59
sister Helen. It's just got everything, I
44:01
think. Oh, this is very funny with Mr.
44:05
Smith having to put in a sort of an indoors voice, like, oh, is
44:07
that because am I supposed to be whispering?
44:09
Because there's a sort of hostile alien intelligence out
44:11
downstairs, you know? Yeah, he's about to make another
44:14
one, she goes brandishing the the.
44:15
Sonic lipstick, Yeah. Oh, could you do the line,
44:19
please? Come on about, Maria.
44:22
Go on. Oh, yes, yes.
44:24
Oh, I've got it here somewhere. Yes.
44:25
You, you, you. You know you might want to shut
44:27
up because or or the OR the Abbess will find a way to solve
44:32
a problem like Maria. It's such a great line and she
44:35
says it totally straight doesn't.
44:37
She how do you solve a problem like we are I?
44:42
Will destroy your Talisman with Sonic disruption.
44:45
Now, this would be kind of a doctor move of sort of holding
44:47
up his Sonic in a sort of threatening way to say I'll
44:49
destroy it you. Know think of like the the
44:51
lattice in talent wing Cheyenne when he's holding out, isn't it?
44:55
It's that, isn't it? Yeah.
44:56
And that will look unveiling the monster.
44:59
Yes, with the glowing eyes. And are you here?
45:02
Adam walks here. Alan walks.
45:05
Could be an Adam. He's pretty enough.
45:08
No, don't turn Alan to stone. He's too.
45:10
Pretty. And that is a brilliant
45:12
cliffhanger. It's great and the way the
45:14
camera sort goes around him as well.
45:17
Yeah. Just wonderful what's coming
45:22
next week. Rejoice sisters, and the Gorgon
45:25
shall be free. Do you see how horrible
45:29
screaming face and glowy eyes? Yeah, yeah.
45:32
Well, again, it's a bit, it's quite sort of that is the more
45:35
sort of kids TV monster because I think if you just did the
45:40
thing with the just the hooded veil and we never see what's
45:42
underneath there, I think it might be too scary.
45:45
For kids, the imagination would run.
45:47
Right. So they've made it more
45:48
palatable because, you know, you've got the glowy sort of
45:50
snake tendrils coming out of her eyes and which is very, you
45:54
know, in keeping with the Medusa myth.
45:55
I. Mean, who wouldn't want to watch
45:57
this? Look at all these clips.
45:59
You've got Luke and Clive surrounded by a load of nuns, a
46:03
whole garden full of statue people.
46:05
Yeah, Sarah Jane in jeopardy. Oh, I would.
46:09
Well, I mean how would you sum up?
46:10
Would you think that's a good scene set up?
46:12
Yeah. Well, and I think this is when
46:13
we sort of start to see a bit of the, not that it's a bad thing,
46:17
but a bit of the formula in the Sarah Jane Adventures where
46:19
there's all the setup and mystery in the first half and
46:21
then all the running about in the second-half, which I like
46:24
too, So, you know, and. I did think like they set up the
46:30
mirror because they talked about that when she was doing the
46:32
research in this one. So sort of how she reflects and
46:35
saves Sarah in the second-half and turns the Gorkon into stone
46:39
herself. It isn't set up.
46:41
Yeah, yes. Well, yeah.
46:42
And because that is, yeah, that's the Medusa myth of
46:45
Perseus having to he could only fight the Medusa by looking
46:49
through the reflection of the of his shield, because everyone
46:52
else would, If you looked at her directly, you would just turn to
46:54
stone. And it's lovely because she
46:57
goes. She goes in to find answers from
47:01
B, isn't it? And that's when she takes the
47:02
mirror from her stand. But B goes.
47:04
I'm always losing my compact, doesn't she?
47:06
I think, you know, it's been used to save the day.
47:10
Oh, just wonderful. Well look, Are you ready to face
47:15
the risk of turning into an enormous Bahir Moth statue in
47:19
Episode 2? Oh, I've always wanted to look
47:21
like one of those Greek statues, says says Alan at the end of the
47:25
second episode. Doesn't he?
47:27
Yeah, there, I'll carry there.