Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.354: ERNO LASZLO EXPLAINS THE MIND AND SKIN CONNECTION WITH NEW PODCAST Ft. Poppy Jamie

Transcript

E.354: ERNO LASZLO EXPLAINS THE MIND AND SKIN CONNECTION WITH NEW PODCAST Ft. Poppy Jamie · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
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• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: She is really well known for her work across many, many different facets.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: But right now, I would like to introduce her as the wellness advisor to Erna Laszlo.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I'd like to introduce you guys to Poppy Jamie.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Poppy, I'm so excited to host you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you so much.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's so great to be here.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's lovely to, you know, have an opportunity to chat with you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to just learn about your career because, like I said, you know, you've had such a wonderful career and you, you know, you have so many wonderful um, you know, accolades.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to share and share with us and walk us down memory lane and just kind of tell us about how everything got started for you.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, it's definitely been um a very unusual journey.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I started my career in television.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was a TV host and um hosted shows for so many different places like e Extra NBC, ABC.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I launched um the first talk show on Snapchat, and um that was watched by millions, and that was kind of gosh, 2015, um, when Snapchat was kind of first on the scene doing content.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um from there I set up my first company, which was a fashion company with my best friend uh who is the uh singer and artist and actress at Suki Waterhouse.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that company was called Pop and Suki, and we really and we focused on personalizing accessories.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we launched that in China and it was global, and that company was sold.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was developing Pop and Suki, and at the um when I was deciding that I was going to take a break from television, this is when I set up my mental health technology platform called Happy Not Perfect with the aim to digitalize cognitive behavioral therapy tools.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And really, if if people aren't familiar with what CBT is, it's one of the oldest and most established forms of therapy.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I wanted to put that into an app and take the research to try to build something that anyone and everyone could download is because I grew up with a mother who's a psychotherapist.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember thinking to myself, one night at 3 a.m.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: in the morning when I was really stressed, I was suffering from insomnia, and my anxiety was off the charts, I didn't I didn't have anyone to talk to.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, this must be the same for millions and millions of people everywhere.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wanted to build a tech platform that meant that no matter how you were feeling, you had somewhere to go to process what was going on inside because our stress is so much worse when we leave it to bubble, when we don't process it in a way that is therapeutic.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I teamed up with a neuroscientist um at UCLA and I built um that for about six years, and alongside uh researching and speaking to world leading experts, I wrote a book to really capture all my research into one place.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the book is called Happy Not Perfect.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then I launched my own podcast, which was taking the conversations that I was having on a daily basis with mental health um professionals and people who were discovering world-breaking breakthroughs about around the mind and our mental health and understanding it better.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to take these conversations and put it somewhere that everybody could benefit from learning what I was learning.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that was called the Not Perfect Podcast.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and then this really brought me on to my role now being the Wealth Global Wellness Advisor at Erno Laszlo because what I realized is that we are so much better at remembering self-care rituals when it comes to brushing our teeth or moisturizing our face, but we are when we're not kind of trained or conditioned yet to look after our mind on a daily basis.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I was talking to the CEO of Erno Laszlo, he and I got on so well and we had this discussion around how skincare can do both.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Skincare can not only look after your skin, but also skincare can also help you look after your mind, and also your mind influences how your skin feels and looks.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um, this is why I'm on this podcast today to talk about mental health and how that relates to skincare.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and it's so great to be here.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that wasn't too long, but that was my career on a nutshell.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love everything you said, and I really, you know, I commend you for being a trailblazer in this space.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: This I cannot tell you how near and dear to my heart this is because I actually, you know, um I'm a very firm believer in everything you said about, you know, CBT, especially.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have a degree in biopsychology as well, and I've I've done a lot of mental health work, you know, in my career.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't tell you, you know, the people I've seen and and the helplessness that people experience on a daily basis, you know, it needs to come to a halt or something.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: It needs to come to a place where they can seek help as they need it.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I I really commend you.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's beautiful work that you're doing, and it it's truly, truly, you know, just you know, it's heartwarming to hear that.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's wonderful.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um thank you.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's so interesting, you know, as you just said, you can feel so helpless when you're you are alone with your mind.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and you know, the one thing I'd love to share um, you know, before we move on is, you know, in the last kind of 10 years, I guess, of research, and my mother has been a psychotherapist for 30 years, um, what I'm always reminded of is how similar we all are, how similar all our fears are, and how similar our insecurities are.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and um, and if we were to look inside of everyone, I think we'd all feel so much more normal.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's been something that has I've I'm I'm constantly reminded of, which I think is really nice to also share.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, no, absolutely.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so glad that you've had your mother as this guiding light in this area because I I often say, you know, I think when your parents are in a certain role or they're they're constantly being exposed to something through their career or their own work, you know, it's really interesting to see how children pick up on the on that and then realize the importance of that work.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's that's wonderful, you know, that you got started at such an early age of appreciating this.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I would love to really speak to you more about this this concept you brought up with the skincare link to mental health, because you know, this is something that I've actually, for myself, you know, I feel like we are very much kindred spirits in this sense because I've brought this up to so many people before, where I said, you know, a skincare ritual is not just a skincare ritual, it's it's a practice that allows for mindfulness, it allows for presence to take place, you know, you you become more aware of yourself in that moment.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, I would love to get your opinion and your insight on this exact issue because people, you know, they treat skincare, I feel like these days as just products, you know, like, okay, well, do I really need more products?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do I really need this?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I get that.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, if it makes you happy, if it makes you want to do and engage in, you know, a ritual every night, then I don't see what's wrong with that.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's also value in that, you know what I mean?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love to get your insight on that.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think this is why I appreciate Erno Laszlo's approach so much to this, because um before I kind of go into um, you know, some of the research that um that that supports how important skincare can be for your mind, um, it was interesting about a hundred years ago, Dr.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uno Laszlo himself was one of the first psychodermatologists in the world.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And in a prescription to Marilyn Monroe, he writes that, you know, after your skincare, go for a walk.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, he took his role as a dermatologist to be very much like a therapist's role, to listen so carefully to his clients and to take those consultations when he was looking at his clients' skin to mean more than just what their skin was saying, but actually how their emotional health was, because he knew emotional health had so much influence on how their skincare looked.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when I started to research, you know, one of the first psychedelmatologists, it's incredible how much the actual science literature has um kind of caught up with a man who was very revolutionary for his time, because even the act of massaging your skin and taking the time to be present, as we know, with the practice of mindfulness, stimulate so many happiness hormones.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: You stimulate your oxytocin when you give yourself a kind of face massage.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: When you focus on your breathing, you're able to turn on the parasymthetic nervous state.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I often encourage people to um remember to do three deep breaths when they're moisturizing, moisturizing and meditation go hand in hand.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea that a meditation needs to be 20 minutes, I think, is unrealistic for most people.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, most people's mornings are full of kids and rushing to work and you know, trying to grab a coffee or trying to do a million things um at the same time, as well as answering emails.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so even though you know it would we would all benefit from a longer meditation, realistically we are time poor.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so this idea that taking your moisturizer as a moment to slow down, focus on your breathing, take three belly breaths, stimulate your vagus nerve.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And when you stimulate your vagus nerve, and when you take three deep belly breaths, you're using your body through biofeedback to send messages to your brain to say, I'm safe, I can relax, I'm I'm I can take control of this moment.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's what I love about this practice.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's micro-mindfulness moments that have such a huge impact on the rest of our day.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we're able to take conscious pauses, we train ourselves to take conscious pauses without even knowing it throughout the day.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we then suddenly move from in reaction mode where we're reacting to other people's emotions or reacting to emails or we're misinterpreting text messages to actually living life when we're able to pause and choose how we want to respond to life, choose how we want to respond to emails to other people, to environments, to decisions, and we start to live a much more conscious life, all through this, you know, the seed of this simple practice of using our moisturizer as a moment to slow down.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, so well said, Poppy.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's so, so true what you said.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think it's very interesting to me how you you brought up the time frame aspect here, because that is a truly excellent point where, you know, yeah, a lot of people, you're right, don't have those 20 minutes, you know, they don't have that one hour.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is, I, you know, I've practiced meditation my whole life.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Indian.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was born into a family that, you know, believes, okay, we believe in meditation.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: We my mother is, you know, she's been such a huge influence for me in that sense, you know, throughout my life.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I understood that, you know, you have to meditate every day, not for any other reason except your own personal health.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: But the I think one thing I've also realized throughout the years is that, you know, when you become present, even if it's for one minute, your whole like whatever is happening in your life, it's almost as if you're bringing order to that chaos.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: That present moment is going to bring order to whatever it is you're dealing with, you know, on a conscious level, on a subconscious level, because that it really is the idea and the the whole therapeutic value behind meditation.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's like becoming more aware that you are here and you are uh materialized.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that feeling, I think people people think I'm you know, what I what I'm trying to get at is I think people put too much thought into meditation, as in like, what should I be thinking about?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: What should I be focusing on?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, should I focus on my breath?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, none of that matters.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: What matters is you have to stop, just stop, you know, your mind and watch your mind.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when you're doing things like skincare rituals, when you're doing things like, you know, massaging your face, like you mentioned, you attract up or you distract a part of your mind that is so busy, you know what I mean?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's always busy doing things, thinking about things, and you're able to come into that moment much more readily and easily.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I think that there's a lot of power.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of power here with skincare.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think that by doing this throughout the day, you know, whether it's reapplying sunscreen or whether it's reapplying your makeup, and you're doing this throughout the day, it's almost as, you know, the idea of remember when nutrition um, you know, launched that whole idea of, well, you should be eating small meals throughout your day rather than large meals like three times a day.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the same, it's the same concept, it's the same idea.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, you if you do this multiple times a day, like you said, you're training yourself, you're constantly reminding your your inner self that this is a part of my routine, this is a part of who I am to come back to real, come back to myself, you know, as many times.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I I love it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love everything that you you're saying, and I really, really applaud you.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is really, you know, a cutting-edge topic.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um, as far as the the health aspect of it, I want to talk to you a little bit about that, you know, because you brought up a great point um about how our inner you know feelings and what we feel inside it really does impact our skin.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I would love to speak to you about how um, you know, Erna Laszlo is approaching that from a, I guess, a scientific stance, like in terms of like acne or you know, any common like skincare conditions and stuff.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we um uh Erna Laszlo and myself recently just launched a podcast called Mind Your Skin, um, and talking about a wide variety um of skincare um issues um and also resolutions that not only involve the skin but also involve the mind.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we have you know spoken to world-leading dermatologists about things like psoriasis, just to acne, to how your skin changes through your menstrual cycle, to understand that yes, investing in skincare products that make you feel amazing is really important.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: But also educating yourself about what truly is happening with your skin from the inside is also one of the best investments that you can make.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there is no surprise that every single dermatologist we speak to talks about the influence stress has on our skin.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we can all anecdotally share so many stories about that time we were really stressed at work and we broke out, or that time we went through a breakup and we broke out, or that time when we were really experiencing burnout and wasn't sleeping much, you know, it that was shown in our face, or that time when we were traveling so much that we had, you know, red, puffy, um, you know, kind of disrupted skin.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So all of us have experienced has experienced our skin when we feel stressed.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And yet sometimes I think we forget that stress is such a huge factor um in your skin.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So not only um are we talking about like the different ingredients and um and understanding kind of you know what would be happening to your hormone levels, you know, when these disruptions happen, but also interventions to actually help you with your stress.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and it's been such a brilliant series of learning from the best and understanding that you know, diet and exercise and spending time outside and sleep, all of these really, really, and again, it feels like we're talking about such basic things, but yet when you go back to the basics, that is when you build the foundation of your life and especially your skin health from the bottom up, bottom up in a really um uh kind of concrete and um and formulated way.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's been a great series.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I know that um, you know, I know there's a lot of wonderful episodes that you guys have, you know, for season one.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that it's really important to address these these topics.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for for answering my my question.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: I just, you know, I always find it very interesting how stress plays a role in skin health.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just the other day I was talking to Jan Moraney, and we were really discussing the physiology and the pathophysiology behind stress, um induced hormones, you know, and and what they do overall to our bodies and more importantly to our skin.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing that I often tell my listeners, and I think it's important for all of us to understand, is that your skin is the last organ to show signs of things, you know, whether it's stress, whether it's nutrition, whether it's, you know, something beneficial or harmful, it's gonna be the last one because of how the hierarchy plays out in your body.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's very, very important that just because you're stressed right now and your skin isn't breaking out and it's not freaking out right now, it doesn't mean that it's not gonna show like a week later, you know?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: So this idea of like balancing and really kind of, you know, understanding this idea of preventative measures for skin health is so, so, so important, especially for, you know, uh more serious pathologies like like psoriasis, eczema, rosacea, you know, these are very serious conditions and they're all tied to, as you said, inflammation.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: But then what is inflammation?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Inflammation is also tied to what you know we're saying here, which is stress.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's what inflammation is a sign of is stress.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's very, very, you know, it's a very novel approach, you know, what you what we're discussing here in terms of how people should be approaching their skin overall, you know.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I really commend you for that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's wonderful that you guys are really doing this and and putting it out there.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I guess really our mission is um, you know, to reflect what you just said, that the mind and skin are intricately connected and we can't kind of think about one when we don't think about the other.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And also to understand skincare um in a broader way.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So getting a good night's sleep, that also can be called skincare.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And ensuring that we're hydrating ourselves, that also can be seen as um as a measure as skincare.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I really appreciate what Ana Lazalo has done, because you know, they're a brand that creates the most incredibly beautiful, um, extremely effective products, but they're also wanting to make sure that their community understands that they support a whole 360 holistic approach to um a functional approach to skincare, which I think is the way the world is going in many different areas.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And skincare is now kind of, I would say, hasn't necessarily focused on being holistic um up until this moment in time.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's so true.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, yeah, you're you're absolutely right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's never been discussed in this manner and on this level.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that, you know, it's so interesting, Poppy, because skincare, it's like when I first discovered it was so tied to like beauty and makeup and stuff.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: And like just watching the evolution of the space has been so interesting.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to get your opinion on that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like what you've, you know, just what you've noticed, you know, um, standing on the sidelines and watching the space evolve, like in terms of like consumer expectations or just what people are gravitating towards.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think more than ever, people are extremely intelligent and they are not gullible, I guess, to kind of 90s marketing campaigns.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think we understand that our skin is our largest organ, and therefore, what are we putting on our face?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Just like we are interested in what sort of food and where our food comes from, I think that same curiosity and also the Consumer deserves that too.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: They deserve to know exactly how their skincare is made, exactly what is in their skincare, because we're absorbing everything.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no point each going to the supermarket and spending more money on food like by you know investing in organic if we're not going to do the same when it comes to ensuring that we have the highest quality of ingredients when it comes to what we put in our face.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I definitely see this shift in the consumer becoming a lot more savvy and also really wanting to understand the science, wanting to understand what happens, why these products work, why should I invest?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is one of the reasons I chose Anna Laszlo to partner with, because Anna Laszlo has been around for nearly a hundred years.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: They have a hundred years of data on formulations.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what company would I trust more?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: A company that's been there for a hundred years, trialing, um, testing different ingredients, what's most effective, um, committing to clean, or a company that launched three months ago who that have, we've got no idea how much data they have.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure they don't probably even have enough people to be able to make any formal conclusions on what really their products do potentially.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I can't I can't think of, you know, I can't think of one in particular.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: But um, and that's where I really see the industry going is who is providing us with the most trust when it comes to skincare.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And also maybe moving away from that, I need to try every single product that launches, but actually know I'm gonna stick to something that works for me.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I think we are all becoming a lot more confident to realize that we are all individual, no two fingerprints are the same.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, as a course, no two skin and faces are the same.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So what works for our best friend may not work for us.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's great because it means that we're all on our journey having to find the products that work best for us.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: But when we do find them, then it's actually being loyal to that, you know, to that brand or to that particular product that we know works for us.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, that makes sense.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad that you brought up the idea of, you know, Ernell Laszlo has been around for so long and the data is very, very important.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that that's something that a lot of people don't understand is that, you know, data is what runs, you know, the world.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have proof, you have to have insights into what matters, what doesn't matter.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think by you partnering with Ernal Laszlo, this is going to become not only a wonderful movement in itself with your endeavors, but I think it's going to, you know, inspire a lot of different people and different creators, you know, worldwide, because this is a topic, I especially mental health, you know, being at the center of it, it's a topic that is so near everyone's heart.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's something that I think we've all somehow we've dealt with, whether it's you know, for ourselves, for a loved one, you know, whatnot.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's just something that I think the more light you can shine on this, the better.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's honestly my opinion.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I don't often share my story of mental health, but like I actually had um, I was engaged for 10 years to somebody who ended up taking his life because of mental health, the lack of mental health facilities in this country, you know, in the US specifically.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that is actually why I went into medicine.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it it's so hard for me to watch this entire world take a backseat when it comes to one of the most important factors of our overall well-being.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, it's when it comes to this topic, especially how, you know, it whether it pertains to skin health or or gut health or whatever, you can't get around the mind.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot get around it.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is going to be tied to everything.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's a mind to everything access, you know, mind to gut, mind to sex, mind to skin, everything.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's related to everything.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: You can't ignore it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we've been ignoring it, I feel like, you know, worldwide.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: We've been ignoring it for so long that now is a you know better time than ever.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's the best time to be discussing this.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, again, I just I love what you're doing.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love what, you know, Arnold Oslo is doing.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think that this is hopefully going to inspire a lot of people, you know, and just kind of make this movement even more prevalent and just, you know, visible, I guess you could say.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, thank you so much for sharing that personal um story.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so sorry to hear about that experience because uh grief again is something that is extremely under-discussed and highly stressful, and um, you know, something that we spend lifetimes with.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um just want to, you know, make a point there of just kind of um recognizing how personal that share was and thank you for doing it.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um because it as as as as you as you really um brilliantly said, um mental health is with everyone, you know, all of us are, you know, all of us are in our own struggles, wherever, whatever they that may be like or feel like, you know, um, because that that is the human experience, I think.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the mind is so busy and we live in an environment that isn't necessarily conducive to good mental health.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, hundreds of years ago we were spending most of the day walking around, we were moving our bodies, we were far more connected, we had communities, we felt safe, we felt loved, we felt we had the certainty of people around us.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: We knew everybody in the tribe or the village, and you know, there wasn't really that many people to compare to.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot more sense of status and a lot more confirmation and validation of who you are as a person, cut to, you know, 200 years later, and we are sedentary.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're sitting down, we've artificial lights, our circadian rhythm is disrupted.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: We have millions of people that we're connected to and yet not connected to.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of are still all working out who we are and where we are placed in this world.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and again, we are on comparison overload with you know social media and and not to say that you know, I try to avoid the conversation of like all of these things are bad.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: We all that you know, the one thing that is constant is change.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: The world is always going to change.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why, you know, I I focus a lot of my work on well, how do we adapt to the changes that are happening?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because we can't ever tell technology to slow down, you know, that is the you know, that I whatever that's saying is, you know, that that's kind of left.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's it's it's oh what is that saying?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's something like, you know, it's gone out of the can, you can't really put it back in again.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but when we focus our attention to, well, how do we adapt?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: How do we become flexible to these changes so um we are much more resilient in a modern world that is here to stay?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and this is the beauty of just going back to the smallest thing that you can do for yourself to make yourself feel a bit better.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't think anyone can sit here and say, I can take your problems away, because sometimes the problems that we're facing, they are just one of those things we have to be patient with.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: We've got to be patient with and things, and time is often the greatest healer.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the small things that we can do, like spending slightly more time with our skincare routine and really appreciating those moments when we do invest in ourselves and do invest in time to look after ourselves.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And for many people, especially if you're living alone, you may not hug someone because you may be working all day.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why that skincare routine where you're like actually really the power of touch is so powerful.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when we bring it back to those micro basics, um that those things can often change an entire mood or just be that little bit of self-love that we all need.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: That is such an excellent point.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we we all do live in this almost isolated kind of world these days, you know, especially with how COVID has kind of been and you know brought us into this new um, I guess, you know, realm of how we just every day, how every day goes.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we were all isolated for so long.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right, the power of touch is very, very, you know, relevant here.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and and the idea of going tying it back to what you said about the parasympathetic nervous system, there's a lot of data, you know, even in the science community that supports exactly what you're saying.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, you know, the more we can, I think, tell people about this, the better.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that this podcast that you're you know spearheading is just it's just such a wonderful, wonderful project.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I can't wait to see all the wonderful things that that come from it.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, one thing I want to ask you about, Poppy, is I know that there was a paper written um, you know, that you know, I would like to discuss with you a little bit more.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was called um the white paper titled I Can See It in Your Face.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you could tell us a little bit more about that paper.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this paper um was written um about um Dr.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Anna Laszlo and how he was, as I was saying earlier, was a complete pioneer in psychedelmatology, this idea that the mind and skin are deeply related and how Dr.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Anno Laszlo um came to think this way.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in the paper it looks at the last 100 years of um um of stories and research and um and some of the first things that Dr.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Ano Laszlo observed when he was looking at his patient's um skin and mental health.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that he would would tell people that, and one thing that his his his clients um would would say about him is one of the greatest qualities of Dr.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Ano Laszlo is that he listened.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think we can learn so much from just the simplest point of that, because he would listen so carefully to what someone was saying about their life and listen so carefully.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's a strange thing to listen to the skin, but he would really take note, understand, and then moderate someone's um skin prescription um or skincare ritual according to what they said.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if they were traveling and going to a different climate, he would then iterate um the skincare products that they would be using.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he also, by taking the time to listen to someone, he he made and allowed his clients to feel seen and heard.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I think this goes back to the fundamentals of psychology in that in that we are all craving to be heard in what we're trying to say to the closest relationships in our life, to what we're trying to say at work to our colleagues.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so it's no surprise that Dr.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Anna Laszlo's clients stayed with him for decades.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like as soon as someone has experienced an Anna Laszlo product, they are usually completely committed to the brand for life.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I've yet to ever find a brand that has that much loyalty.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it really comes from the essence of Dr.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Anna Laszlo himself.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so he was very passionate about, you know, telling his clients to go for a walk after their skincare routine.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and look, I don't think he would be advising this now, but he in his prescription, in his prescription to Marilyn Moreau, he would encourage her to have a cigarette, not because he endorsed cigarettes, it's because actually the art, the actual act of having a cigarette is really doing a small breath workout because you are taking a few moments to breathe.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so the fact that this um incredible doctor nearly 100 years ago was understanding how power powerful breath work was when you combined it with your skincare.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um the white paper um documents all of this um in looking at the evolution of the psychodermatology and um philosophy.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it makes sense.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: It just you know, psychodermatology is a very interesting term to me.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it's um it's definitely something that you know I've heard a few times, but this is a it's a it's a new word still, you know.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think people really understand the the real meaning of it.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I know that, you know, the listening aspect, I find that to be very intriguing, what you said about Dr.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Laszlo, because you know, just the other day, um, you know, I was trying to convey this idea of how much listening is important as well.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like if you let people just talk and if you just let them explain themselves, like you will discover so much more.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we're taught this in even medical school nowadays, you know, even in basic training, we're taught, you know, you just when you talk to a patient, when you talk to anybody, you have to let them speak, you know, and you're gonna get more history out of that person by allowing them that space than you would with like targeted questions and targeted, you know, just probing.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I think that's very, very interesting, but more so like with this idea of, like I said, um, you know, like just the the dermat the psychodermatology piece, I would love to see a more defined approach around that, you know.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you guys, you know, on the podcast, as you guys are going through, to like really invite on um neuroscience experts.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know if you if you know um of this specific author, Poppy, but there was somebody I I read back in high school, and I loved his work.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: He was one of the first people to combine um neuroimaging with psychiatry.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: And what he did was basically write a bunch of different books about things like ADHD, um, depression, anxiety.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: And what he would do is his patients would come in and obviously he would treat them, you know, it's like for psychiatric disorders.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: But what he added on was this idea of truly, you know, using neuroimaging to further understand what was really the leading cause of their condition.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of the times, you know, in his books, if you read them, there's so many overlying aspects, you know, from the neuroscience perspective of what really leads to these different conditions and what that really means overall for mental health.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I would be very intrigued to see you guys bring on, you know, like uh a really, really esteemed neuroscientists and neuroscience professionals.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: That would be very cool.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, um, and you know, thank you for that suggestion.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're um at the moment in the process of recording the third series, and that's all around talking to mental health professionals, um, around um, you know, really the kind of the intricate details of stress and talking to neuroscientists when it comes um um about their thoughts on how to manage stress to influence better skin health.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: But um psychodermatology is um it makes complete sense, right?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because as we've just discussed, how you're feeling and how your mental health is and how your stress levels are directly kind of um are seen in in the face.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Dr.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Analazio is kind of known for these quotes, like, you know, I I can see it in the face.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and also he was so passionate about making women feel confident from within, because he said, when people feel confident, again, their skin glows.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I just love the fact that this pioneering man could understand that how we feel is is often so related to how we look.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so doing that inside work is critical.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So when we the beauty industry, it's kind of odd how the beauty industry for so long has kind of separated um itself from with by being just just so wholly focused on aesthetic results.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: But as we know, our internal life is is so related to um to how we look.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when you're happy, you're glowing.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and so how do we make ourselves, how do we do the internal work as well as look after um the external too?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really the kind of the premise of psychodermatology is looking at someone and working with a patient from the outside and the inside to ensure both get best results because it also works the other way around.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: When you feel like you look great, you feel more confident, you know, when you've got good skin, you walk into that, you know, that work interview and you just have that extra spring in your step, or you go to that date, or you turn up on your wedding day, or you feel great on a Saturday night, um, you know, when you're when you're feeling fresh and and clear skinned.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: So they go hand in hand.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why Dem um Dr.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Anna Laslow wanted to treat it with um hand in hand.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you're absolutely right.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I really, really love that you did that as well.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's thank you for pointing that out.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, you're so right.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's such an interesting idea.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, you know, the beauty community has always been, like you said, focused on aesthetics.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: But also, you know what's interesting, Poppy, is that people talk so much about um, you know, body positivity and they talk so much about these like buzzwords, but it's like instead of like speaking at the consumers and saying, hey, be body positive, why don't you speak to them and listen to them?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like you were talking about, you know, with Dr.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Laszlo's approach, where it's like, you know, figure out what that means for every single individual.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: And how can we do that if we don't encourage people to spend more time with themselves, you know, internally.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is such a such an interesting, interesting area.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I I feel like it's really going to reflect in the body positivity movement if we allow it to, because you know, I think women, even now, even with all of the propaganda around this, all of the, you know, um social media around it, there's still this haze over body positivity.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone's looking for an answer that fits everyone, but it just there's no such thing, one size fits all, you know, when it comes to how you feel about yourself and how you view yourself in the mirror or you know, otherwise.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that this is so, so important.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be at the core of so much, you know.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: If that makes sense.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it it it it it complete it completely makes sense.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that um obviously it's um uh it would be amazing if everybody could have that experience of sitting down and being listened to.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, from a practical standpoint, sadly that can't happen you know all the time.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: But this is why, you know, we we set up the podcast, and I love the medium of podcasting because these micro conversations hopefully you know they are so much more relatable than these huge kind of wide-stretching messages.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, hopefully some of the things we've said today has like resonated with um with people's own experiences.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I think that's really important for for us all to seek out conversations that resonate and and feel like they're they're similar to what we're what we're going through.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why each week we've chosen different dermatologists to focus specifically on a different issue to ensure that as many people as possible can relate to at least one of the conversations.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, that's so cool.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Poppy, I will ask, where will the podcast be available and how often are you guys going to be posting?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, could you tell us some more details about that?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: So all of our listeners can definitely tune in.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for asking.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just the the podcast is called Mind Your Skin, and it's anywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we just um two series one and two have launched, and um they are collections of six to seven interviews.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: So there's about 15 interviews um already live, and at the moment we are recording the third series, but each series um launches um uh slightly separately from each other, and they're posted once a week.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's wonderful, and everyone listening.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: I really hope you guys tune in.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is such a cool movement, and I just so proud of the fact that we're here, you know, at this point in the beauty space, in the wellness space.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is a very, very exciting time, and I'm so so excited to see you know you spearheading this poppy.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is such a wonderful initiative, like I said, and I cannot applaud you enough for doing that.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for doing that.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you so much.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: This has been such a lovely conversation, and again, thank you so much for sharing your story.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm sure there's more people than we imagine um that can relate.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so thank you everyone for listening.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um yes, my my invitation to everyone is how can you turn your moisturizing ritual more into um something that is mindful at the same time?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of just kind of rushing through um the motions and just we need to do this and this, how would it feel like just to slow down even 20% to feel what it might feel like for the water to be splashing on your skin, for your cleanser to be softly gliding over your skin, like to take a moment to smell what your products might feel like.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And lastly, to really feel and moisturize slowly the skin and caress the skin with your moisturizer and just have that sensual experience with your skincare routine to relax the nervous system, allow yourself to have a moment of peace that everybody deserves.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and just notice how that might change your day, and especially it's so powerful before bed because it helps us to wind down and get the ready, the mind and body ready um to fall asleep when we want to.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really powerful sleep routine when we when we slow it down to turn into something that's slightly more mindful.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I love that so much.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, I hope you guys have really paid heed to what Poppy has said here.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't agree more.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just so excited to see the success of this wonderful, wonderful podcast.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I, you know, like we both said, I guess, you know, definitely put a timer on anything you need to do and tune in to all of the episodes.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I can't wait to hear you guys' response.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, you know, write to us, comment on the post for this episode, and let us know what you think of this whole topic.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I would love to hear your thoughts, and I'm sure you know Poppy would as well.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll definitely pass them along to her team.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but thank you again, Poppy.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: This was such an honor to host you.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 45:31
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• 45:36
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• 45:39
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• 45:42
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• 45:45
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• 45:54
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• 46:01
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• 46:04
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• 46:09
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• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 46:14
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• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 46:24
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• 46:31
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• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.