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The Kev (Kevin Mcgeary) | The Christian Reeve Podcast #344 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
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Podcast. Today's guest is a comedian.
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His name is Kevin Mcgree, or as we know him, the Kev.
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Welcome to the show. How you doing?
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Good. Thanks for having me, Christian.
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No, it's a pleasure, man. I was.
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I was really stoked that you reached out and you wanted to be
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part of the show. Obviously I know Kev from doing
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open mics and I'll, before I jump into that, I'll, I'll, I'll
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say that what I've seen at open mics from comedians, at least in
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Manchester, hasn't been great. It's been, there's been, there's
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been some people where I'm, I can, I can see that this person
0:39
would be funny. And sometimes I look at it like
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maybe it's just not the right audience, but I, I don't know,
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like I feel like good comedians generally, they can work with
0:48
any audience. And yeah, to some extent you're
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you're going to have just tough crowds, people not primed for
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it. But like, I genuinely, every
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time I've seen you play. And because obviously you do
1:01
music as well and we'll get into that.
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I don't know, it's just, it's just funny.
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I don't know. It's Simply put, it's funny.
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It's straight up comedy and it's where it should be.
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And I don't know, I guess my first question to you is like,
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why? Why perform at open mics?
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Like why? Why do that?
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Well, As for it, it just being funny, the only way to make
1:24
things look easy is to work like a maniac at it.
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It's like, it's like ballet dancers.
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They look like they're floating when in fact they're, they're
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incredible athletes who've absolutely tortured themselves
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to get to where they are. So As for open mics, well,
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comedy open mics are very few people enjoy them, least of all
1:45
the performers. But then critique criticizing a
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comedian based on what you've seen at an open mic.
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It's like criticizing a building based on seeing the scaffolding
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because it's where people go to test out new material.
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And by by by definition, it, it's unlikely to be very
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polished. Because if in a sense, if you if
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you play your most polished material at an open mic, then
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you're probably not being experimental enough.
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Because if, if something, if something has a proven track
2:13
record of bringing the house down, then you probably don't
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need to play an open mic. You can save it for a more
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formal gig, assuming you have any lined up.
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OK, so playing Dev was advocate on that point then, because in
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the same way that like I know that comedians will often do a
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series of shows before they do like a big tour to test out set
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material, tweak it, work on it. Could you not argue then that
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it's also just that those jokes aren't funny?
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It's not hitting, it's not landing.
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I mean, yes, you are using it as a test run, but it's also like
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the first time I've ever seen you ever.
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Would it not be good to have like one thing, you know, is a
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gold standard and then test all of your other stuff?
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So it's at least kind of giving people like, OK, like we're both
3:04
musicians. There's, I know there's songs
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that you play that that always, you know, just hit because you
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know, it's funny, you know, people dig the song and then
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there's other ones you play that maybe you've never played
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before. I think the last time I saw you
3:17
play, you played loads of stuff I'd never heard before and it
3:20
was just fucking hilarious to be honest.
3:25
So, so why do I play music open mics?
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Because I find I'm, I'm most comfortable when surrounded by a
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certain types of people and that is talented oddballs on the
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fringes of society. Because I've, I've worked, I've,
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I'm in my early 40s now. So I've had a lot of
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experiences. But when you work in say, the
3:50
corporate world, you, you meet fiercely intelligent people.
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But they, they chat, they channel their talents into quite
3:58
prosaic things like wealth and social status, which is great.
4:02
Who, who doesn't want to have wealth and social status?
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But there are very few ways of going about acquiring wealth and
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social status that are exciting or pleasant.
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So whereas openness. So I I choose open mics because
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where else can I play? It's not as if I could playing
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the the Arena or the Royal Albert Hall is a choice.
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And secondly, musical comedy. I, I generally stumble into it
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out of trial and error, but it, it involves everything I'm
4:37
passionate about music, creative writing.
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You can when writing lyrics or well, lyrics are a subcategory
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of literature. And in literature you can, you
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can explore every conceivable subject from every conceivable
4:53
angle. And for me, that I pressure
4:59
myself into trying to be funny because I want to evoke genuine,
5:04
genuine emotions from people. When I was training as a
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musician as a teenager, my tutor said the the broadly speaking,
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the four categories of music are the, the, the of when it comes
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to emotions you're trying to evoke are cry, die, fight or
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dance, cry, die, fight or dance. And most music can is meant to
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inspire people into one of those four things like die for your
5:34
country or die for a prospective lover.
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But I've just, I think making people laugh is a really hard
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challenge. And, and the reason why I again,
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trial and error, but it's a classical guitar, which I'm far
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more trained in that than I have been in musical comedy.
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But it it's hard to, it's a quiet, shy instrument.
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It's hard to even hear it, let alone feel strongly about what
6:00
you hear on it. So I just like most people who
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who are are creatives, I'm kind of neurotic and need that
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validation. And that's so because most of my
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lyrics, they're about particular things that that interest me.
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But I want to just just to know that I'm not just just indulging
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myself. I try to make sure I'm, I'm
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evoking emotions from other people and, and laughter is an
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emotion that can't really be faked.
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And it's a it shows that that what I'm if the validation of
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making people have shows that what I'm saying is packing a
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punch, which for me that that matters.
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Yeah, I mean, you know, it's not the only time I've ever seen a
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comedian on open mic. It's not unheard of.
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It's just across, across the years of me doing the open mic,
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seeing obviously doing the sound and stuff and seeing just all
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the sorts of people that show up.
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You're completely right. You get all sorts of people
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oddballs. It's fun, it's great, I love it.
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But you don't often see comedians to be honest.
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Every now and again you'll see a comedian and you know, sometimes
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it's funny, sometimes it's not. But I guess the only reason I
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pose that question is because there are comedy clubs, comedy
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venues, comedy gigs, etcetera. And I just wondered like from
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the environment perspective, which is what you've laid out
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already just. I play more music open mics than
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comedy clubs. Well, although the Old Monkey is
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is where We've met is a comedy club of some repute, but that
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the nights I play tend to be music nights rather than comedy
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nights. So comedy open mics.
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There's a few problems with them #1 most of the people in the
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audience are other comedians or their mates, so realistically,
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there's two possible reactions you're going to have from them.
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One of them is few. That person is no threat to me,
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and Oh no, that bastard's better than me.
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And neither of those are a pleasant reaction to get.
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It's. The same open mics man, there's
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no fucking difference. People might not say it, but
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that's I mean, that separates the assholes from the cool
8:14
people really. But there's a larger variety,
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like like someone who's a guitar shredder is not versus someone
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who's a who's a singer who sings, say, Spice Girls covers
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that they could both excel and they wouldn't feel threatened by
8:31
each other. I always look at it like if
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you're a fan of music or I mean, think about that, the people
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that show up say like to the old monkey and places like that,
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there's regular faces, right? And then there's some people
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that show up once, never show up again and there's no rules to
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it. But I have found over the years,
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and I've said this, stubborn performers as well that have
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been on the show. And it's generally that kind of
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universal agreement. Like you stick around, you watch
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everyone as much as you can, unless you have to go try and,
9:03
you know, make connections, make friends, whatever you get.
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You get a lot more out of it, I think, you know, And then of
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course, there's more, there's more investment, isn't there?
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If it's I, I know, obviously. That there are comedy open so
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and as a musical comedian, musical comedy is a hard sell in
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general. But I, I've played comedy open
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mics, we're just into early 2026 now, so last year and the year
9:25
before and I didn't feel welcome or even notice.
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I mean, the the last time I played a comedy open, it was in
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a massive pub on Oxford Road. Probably shouldn't name names,
9:35
but so most of the other performers were pure stand ups.
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And while I was performing, they were just chatting among
9:41
themselves and half of them had their backs to me, which, and,
9:46
and most musicians would know better than even if they didn't
9:48
like your shtick, they, they wouldn't carry on like that.
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And, and so the other and another two more reasons why I
9:55
don't really play comedy clubs. And one is one of the options is
10:01
a gong shows. So here in Manchester, there's a
10:03
very, very reputable gong show on a Monday evening.
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And then for me, I went, I went there once as an audience member
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just to see what it was like. And you know, most of the acts
10:15
were. What is a gong show?
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A gong show, So. So the one in Manchester is
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called, Yeah, might be burning some bridges by naming it, but
10:25
it's called Beat the Frog and it's played at the Frog and
10:28
Bucket Comedy. Yeah, it's quite well known.
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It's very well known. It's where Peter Kay cut his
10:34
teeth in many I didn't. Know.
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That and they also have a comedy course where I very much doubt
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that it's launched anyone who's ended up having a lucrative
10:44
career in comedy. But they can always tell you you
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could be the next Peter Kay if you take their advice and pay
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their tuition. Yeah.
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On Monday, on Monday evenings, they have beat the frog.
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So, so commit so audience met. Three members of the audience
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are picked at random and they're given sort of their cards to
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hold up like a Roman emperor having their thumbs up or thumbs
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down to, to tell the gladiator to kill or not kill.
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And if two of the three put their cards up, then a, a gong
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sounds. And in in the case of beat the
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Frog, it's the sound of a a frog.
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So comedian, so novice comedians have 5 minutes to survive.
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And if they're not funny, then audience members can put their
11:35
their cards up. And if two of the three are up,
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then they're out. So, and then they they have to
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walk off. If so, you hear the the really
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ugly sound of a frog and you have to walk off the stage with
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your tail between your legs in front of everyone.
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And usually the compare will then say something on, you know,
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stick the knife in with what whatever they say.
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And and the ones who survive, they're invited back up on stage
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at the end of the evening. And audiences vote on which one
12:01
was the best. And obviously there's a recency
12:04
bias at play. So whoever was the most recent
12:06
usually wins. But it's it doesn't appeal to me
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at all because even if even if I were successful at it, it will
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be like climbing a pile of corpses to collect a trophy.
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Hits wouldn't be my idea of a good evening.
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And it's not You don't have to Vanquish people to have a good
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time, as far as I'm concerned. And the other reason why so Gong
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Shows are not for me and the other reason why I don't play
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comedy club is because when you walk up to a group of people and
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say I have a really funny joke, you're instantly disinclining
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them to laugh. So because comedy should creep
12:47
up on you and and not be that obvious and you're putting extra
12:50
pressure on yourself. What made you decide to be a
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sort of a comedy music performer as opposed to just straight
12:59
comedian? Because it's it's just happens
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to involve all all the things I enjoy the most and most people
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when when you give a young person advice like choose what
13:17
you love and the money will follow.
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There are many reasons why that is absolutely terrible advice,
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but but one of them is most people don't have one overriding
13:27
passion. I have many.
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So I'm passionate about music and about creative writing.
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I like, I like essay writing, I like, I like poetry, I like
13:38
short stories and novels. And earning a living from any
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one of those things is effectively a pipe dream for
13:44
almost anyone. But so musical comedy was just a
13:49
process of elimination. So for me.
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So after uni I did so I went to university during the New Labour
13:56
years when all you needed to get a degree was to somewhere
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roughly be a carbon based life form.
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So I, I got an arts degree and of course I wasn't exactly
14:10
beating off prospective employers with a stick.
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So my first graduate job was teaching English in China.
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And I, I barely even thought about China until I went there
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aged 23. So the first year I was living
14:25
in in a dormitory, a mixed sex dormitory, sort of a bit like
14:28
the Big Brother house. So people, guys and girls in
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their 20s who are young, hedonistic and haven't really
14:38
started their careers yet or or their family lives.
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And then the the second year I lived in Hunan province, which
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you could what the Americans would call a fly over state.
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It's probably, it's, it's landlocked, probably the
14:51
equivalent of say Arkansas or Oklahoma in it's quite an
14:55
unglamorous part of the country. And so around, around half the
15:01
people I met had never seen a Caucasian before.
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And one, one of the few forms of entertainment there was karaoke.
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And I wasn't, I'd never been interested in singing before
15:11
then. But so almost every night I went
15:15
to a karaoke joint and it's really good way.
15:18
So I was already conversant in the language after a year.
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But karaoke was really good for your, your vocabulary because
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you learn obscure pieces of vocabulary that don't crop up in
15:29
everyday conversation. And it's, it's good for your
15:32
mastering the rhythms of a language.
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And then at the, by the end of December 2008, I was, I'd
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started experimenting on writing songs in Chinese, which was
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really just a study method that got out of hand.
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Within six months I'd written about 15 songs them so, which in
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theory is a wonderful achievement, but like having an
15:57
arts degree in reality, how on earth do you get people
16:00
interested in it so. You let me know when you figure
16:04
that out, because I fucking figured that out.
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Exactly, just be at the right place at the right time.
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I'm afraid it's the only thing for it.
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Or or climb a pile of corpses to to get to just.
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Just an aside, I didn't, I wanted to defer a comment in
16:21
there. Like I think you always get a
16:23
choice with that. I know it's stating the obvious,
16:25
but a lot of people choose to be like, oh fuck it, I'm just going
16:28
to screw over everyone to get what I want.
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And it's like that will that will come to bite you in later
16:34
life. And you, we see it time and time
16:36
again. And it's like especially when
16:38
you have a quiet period or there's not much going on.
16:41
Like I, I had like a, a guy reach out to me that I'd done
16:44
some films with like a year or so ago, right?
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I think 2 years, a year and a half ago and I'd not done any on
16:52
stage. Oh, sorry, on screen acting in
16:54
like a long time. And I got randomly contacted by
16:59
a director to do this film, and I found out it is through this
17:04
actor that I'd worked with and he'd direct me on something and
17:07
stuff. And I was like, really just
17:09
blown away by that. I was like, oh, thank you, man.
17:12
Thank you so much. And it's like, it kind of
17:14
reinforced the idea in my head. Like, you make these
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connections. You, you, you, you make an
17:18
effort with people. And you know, you can reap the
17:22
rewards of that. But like you go into it without
17:25
the mindset of I'm just doing this to get things, you know,
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just, I don't know, like I think good things come to good people,
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I guess is my point. In in in the long, long term,
17:35
but your your 20s and 30s and probably beyond will be an
17:40
absolute slog. So so by by by the middle of
17:45
2009, I'd written about 15 Chinese songs and then great.
17:49
I couldn't find an audience for them and and needed needed to
17:52
work for a living like everyone else.
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And so one of the few jobs available was tutoring English.
17:56
And so it's a bit of a dog and pony show.
17:59
It's one of those jobs you, you don't have to be brilliant at
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it. You just need to have an
18:03
extroverted personality and an easy charm.
18:06
And I have neither of those things.
18:07
So I had to had to quite thoroughly study the craft of
18:12
teaching before I got half decent at it.
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You're a bit of slip your humour into just teaching.
18:18
More than you'd think actually. The all the bookish learning
18:21
that you acquire at university that has hardly any
18:24
applicability in the real world. I managed to shoehorn quite a
18:26
lot at that end as well. And when I was teaching adults
18:30
and then then by the end, at the end of I was getting ready to
18:34
leave China because it just, the whole thing felt like a dead
18:38
end. But then at the end of 2010, I
18:40
landed a newspaper gig which I started the following year.
18:44
So that's my first experience of getting my writing published,
18:48
first experience of of getting paid to to apply the knowledge
18:53
and acquired at university or some of it anyway.
18:56
What did that feel like when that happened?
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Quite gratifying and seeing seeing your name in print is is
19:05
shouldn't be the thing you're motivated by, but it's it's a
19:07
good feeling nonetheless. And then after the second year
19:13
at the news, I was at the newspaper for two years.
19:15
And the second year I stumbled upon musical comedy.
19:19
And I realized that that was the right approach for me because a
19:23
Caucasian singing in Chinese would never be taken seriously
19:27
as an artist because of the sheer novelty of it.
19:29
So if you're not going to be taken seriously, then you might
19:32
as well lean into it and, and turn this weakness into a
19:34
strength. And so China isn't a country
19:39
that many people associate with satire, but I, I was a satirist
19:43
in China and getting good for. So I was playing in bars and
19:48
expat pubs and getting good feedback, just writing, writing
19:52
and performing really silly songs in Chinese.
19:54
And then I did the same thing in English.
19:58
Then to 2030, as as happens to everyone at some point, 2013 was
20:04
a real come down because I tried to move back to the UK and I
20:07
realized. That the economy wasn't that
20:11
strong. All my all my experience was on
20:14
the other side of the planet. So how would, how would I even
20:16
begin to sell myself to prospective employers?
20:20
So the year after that, I went back to China, but I wanted a
20:22
step up from professionally. So I worked a corporate job.
20:26
And so I was, I was in a, so the first four years of my 30s, I
20:31
was in a corporate job. And it tends to, so your
20:35
standard of living is a lot higher than if you're an artist,
20:39
almost certainly so. And I actually really enjoyed
20:42
it, but it does get under your skin and it's not generally not
20:46
that good for your creativity, so.
20:49
What pissed you off the most about working in corporate?
20:53
Because I know it seeped into your songs, I.
20:57
Generally liked it and because I wasn't that high status, I
21:00
could, I could put in a shift and go home in the evenings and
21:03
not even talk about work, which is a huge luxury that most
21:05
people don't have. So, so the first, the first half
21:10
of my 30s were all about building corporate experience
21:13
and also did an MBA as well. All right, So what?
21:16
Did you? What did you do your MBA in?
21:19
My major was in human resources, which and I would be an
21:22
absolutely hopeless HR manager, but I still wanted to learn
21:25
about it and my thesis. So for your thesis, you had to
21:29
pick up a particular issue in a particular industry in a
21:34
particular country. So I chose the issue of
21:37
diversity in the publishing industry in the UK.
21:43
So obviously diversity is one of the the most contentious issues
21:47
of our time with the Black Lives Matter, the Black Lives Matter
21:51
movement and the turf wars or the trans rights movement, the
21:56
the Me Too movement, women's representation.
21:58
So it was a it, it appealed to my inner mania, inner
22:02
megalomaniac because I like to, I like to write about every
22:05
conceivable subject from every conceivable angle.
22:07
So and the, the NBA thesis allowed that so, so because some
22:15
people what one of the cliches about the arts is that you one
22:19
day you might get discovered and escape the rat race.
22:24
But I think I actually, in many ways I prefer the rat race to to
22:28
the creative life because I don't like being broke.
22:31
So yeah, but how do you? I know, well I feel like I know
22:35
what your response? How do you deal with the
22:39
day-to-day though? That that shit drives me nuts.
22:41
Like sure, it's great to have money, but then it's not fire.
22:44
I can disassociate. I can disassociate so I can have
22:48
a workplace persona, then go home and pay myself.
22:53
That's not just tiring, though. My workplace persona isn't fake,
22:57
it's just speak when spoken to and never say boot or goose,
23:00
which comes easy for me. For some people that will be
23:03
really difficult. Yep, me.
23:09
So, so I left China in 2018 and I always knew it was going to be
23:12
a huge struggle. So I finished the NBA the
23:15
following year and then my New Year's resolution.
23:18
So my my first office job in the entire Western Hemisphere was in
23:23
my mid 30s in down in deepest Cheshire and I got let go from
23:29
that in December 2018 which was huge bummer.
23:33
So my my I still hadn't finished the NBA by this point.
23:37
So my my 2 main challenges for 20/19 were finished the NBA and
23:44
tentatively dip my toe into the open mic scene because I'd spent
23:47
a good few years away from making original music.
23:51
So in that year I did dry January and I couldn't be in
23:55
pubs if I was on dry January. I didn't finally get get
23:59
involved until the spring that the first, the first one I did
24:04
was the white Lion. It doesn't have an open mic
24:06
anymore, but it's on on Liverpool road.
24:10
So and that that got a really good response.
24:12
And then I was invited to the old pint pot and got really good
24:17
response there. And I've just, I realized how
24:21
how I should never have spent so much time away from making
24:24
music, especially musical comedy, because it's like I
24:29
said, it's the right art form for me.
24:32
I mean, it's, it's a silly art form in a really hard sell.
24:34
And it hardly ever, well, if you make any type of music, your,
24:40
your chances of being your chances of being commercially
24:43
successful are statistically a fraction of 1%.
24:46
And that applies to pop music, indie music, jazz music, rock
24:49
music, anything. So, and obviously, yeah, musical
24:55
comedy is an even rarer niche, but it's, I think even even if I
25:01
were in the highly unlikely event I were ever offered a big
25:05
money record contract, in some respects it would take a lot of
25:08
the enjoyment out of it. Not that I would say no to A to
25:11
a lucrative record deal. Well.
25:13
There's different ways you can do things these days as well.
25:15
I mean, a lot of major artists tend to go for like distribution
25:18
deals and stuff like that. Obviously being a musical comedy
25:22
act, the live side of things would really be the like live
25:26
performance in general in music now is is the real driving
25:29
force. But especially with comedy, you
25:33
know, I remember seeing like Tenacious D years ago.
25:35
And if, if the music isn't fucking hilarious, the stage
25:38
design alone will get you like it's easy and and like people
25:43
would genuinely go just because it's a fucking kick ass band.
25:46
It's not just like about the comedy, but like, I don't know,
25:50
I feel like there's a real place for for musical comedy.
25:54
And I don't know, like where we might say, I don't know, could
25:58
we see an upsurge and synergy? Can there be more musical
26:01
comedy? In the future, I doubt it.
26:04
I think even even people who like my stuff would never claim
26:09
that. And even if it did blow up and
26:11
find a massive audience that it would spark many imitators the
26:14
way I never know that happening. And what would the what would
26:19
the imitators even sound like? It's hard to envision.
26:24
Everything's cycles, isn't it? Much like comedy in general,
26:27
it's things go in cycles. And that's why so on my the
26:32
comedy songs I've written since since getting back involved in
26:36
mid 2019 have included so the great British indie song, which
26:40
Lampoon's self serious indie music Shut Up and Sing, which is
26:44
about it's about rock'n'roll lyrics and just the the
26:48
pomposity of rock'n'roll and how how pretty much no famous rock
26:54
musician is an exemplary human. Which is fine, they don't need
26:57
to be, but people shouldn't lionize these people.
27:00
One when I wrote back in 2012 was the great My favorite bunch
27:04
of Millionaires, which is a mock football song.
27:07
So I've got I've fallen in Love with a Mermaid, which is a mock
27:11
Disney song. I've got lots of mock love songs
27:15
and mock pop songs. So it's just it comes from it's
27:22
reactive in a sense in it's critical.
27:25
So it's, it's about, it's like, you know, the movie Scream, the,
27:29
the, the horror film from the mid 90s in I think Scream is
27:34
scarier than the comedy film, scarier than the horror films
27:38
it's parody parodying, but also funnier than the scary movie
27:43
films, which are supposed to be a spoof of Scream.
27:46
So. So that's what it so I suppose
27:50
my biggest challenges are back at uni, I was taught by Archie
27:55
Markham, our creative writing tutor, the the good writing is
27:58
characterized by three things, linguistic vitality, formal
28:02
innovation and emotional truth. And all three of those things
28:07
are are too abstract to really focus on, to aim for.
28:09
You can only really tell after you finish something whether has
28:12
something so but by linguistic vitality, it means defiance of
28:16
cliche, but also the use of them of good like similes, metaphors
28:23
and that type of thing. So and my lyrics are are riddled
28:29
with similes and metaphors and the things that I was taught in
28:31
creative writing class, formal innovation.
28:37
So, so you might, so as a poet, you might stick to traditional
28:42
styles like the, the villanelle and the sonnet or the the
28:47
ballad, but try to be, try to be original within those those
28:53
forms. So because my songs are in, in
28:56
almost every way are actually highly conventional.
28:58
They have an intro versus choruses, an outro, a middle
29:03
late. It's just there within, within
29:07
those really rigid structures, all the madness happens and
29:13
emotional truth. And that is so like I mentioned
29:16
earlier, to evoke genuine emotions from people.
29:19
So whether it's cried, I fight or dance or to make people
29:23
laugh. Have you ever had a situation
29:25
where you wrote a song and then someone who knew you say outside
29:28
of comedy, picked up on it and was like, hold on, I know that
29:33
you're talking about this person or something like that?
29:37
No, that's maybe a few situations.
29:42
So that the song cheap hotel is about is about not having an A
29:47
marital affair. It's about pretending.
29:52
So that was that was loosely based on realizing someone
29:58
hadn't told me that they were married.
29:59
But again, it's it's it's so different.
30:02
What's what's described in the song is so different to what
30:05
actually happened that I'd say now.
30:07
And I have a song called Epiphany, which again, it's
30:13
loosely based on my corporate experience, but again, it's
30:17
still where it focuses on the general in the universal rather
30:21
than the particular, if you know what I mean.
30:26
It's inspired by the particular, but it's about the universal.
30:28
Which would you say is more effective do you think?
30:32
Well, to be universal, because if you want to make wide
30:34
varieties of people laugh, then you can't.
30:38
So that's what that's why I rarely satire generally ages
30:42
very badly because you can in in the 1950s, you might write
30:47
something about Anthony Eden or Harold Macmillan and, and now
30:50
people will say, well, who was Anthony Eden?
30:53
So I, I try to be more universal than then focus on, well,
30:59
especially here in Manchester, in Manchester, if you got up on
31:02
the stage and sit down with the Tories or Black Trans Lives
31:08
Matter, that that would probably be about as brave as being an
31:10
Internet troll because almost every image, everyone in
31:14
Manchester thinks those things anyway.
31:15
So. What we through that in general,
31:18
like in Manchester, what, what's the comedy scene like?
31:21
What's the vibe like? What are the main differences,
31:25
say, in Manchester versus other places you perform comedy?
31:29
Changing what you look for changes what you find and if if
31:32
you look for evidence that people are out to get you and
31:35
out to stab you in the back, you'll find it.
31:37
But if you don't look for it then you probably won't because
31:40
it's probably not even there. So in the UKI haven't performed
31:45
in many places other than Manchester, but I think the the
31:49
rules are generally quite universal because of the the the
31:54
craft of performing is is applicable to venues big and
31:59
small or audiences old and young.
32:01
So I wouldn't say there's that much of a difference.
32:04
How do you deal with, because you mentioned earlier about
32:07
like, you know, sometimes you, you come across these difficult
32:10
crowds sometimes. I mean, I, I can relate to that.
32:14
Certainly when it's, you're playing music and there's just
32:16
no one gives a fuck. It's it's brutal, it's brutal,
32:19
it's fucking brutal. But then obviously I think with
32:21
comedy, there's that added layer.
32:24
I've always really respected comedians because I feel like
32:29
it's the ultimate challenge. It's sink or swim.
32:31
Because with a song, it's a song.
32:33
If you don't like it, you don't like it, fine, right?
32:34
But with comedy, so much of it is reliant on whether or not it
32:40
gets a laugh and it's relative. It could be the best fucking
32:43
joke ever, but maybe it's just the wrong crowd.
32:47
So like how do you deal with those tough grounds, those tough
32:51
environments that? Everyone, everyone has bad
32:55
nights on stage and you usually just have to chalk it up to
32:58
being a bad night. But there are there are there
33:02
are tools for deal. It works.
33:05
Take annoying hecklers, for example.
33:07
For some reason there was this circle of guys who who came to
33:11
my gig at Academy 3IN in 2022 and they kept shouting their
33:16
Heckle was play the hits Kev, play the hits Kev and then the
33:21
follow a couple of years later someone one of them sent me a
33:24
Christmas card, signed off Play the hits Kev.
33:26
And after that was 3 1/2 years ago and I still cannot for the
33:31
life of me figure out how or why that's supposed to be funny.
33:34
Play the hits, Kev. Also, they paid to see you at a
33:39
gig as well. Just to say that that's odd that
33:42
people do that. Oh.
33:44
You don't know the half of it so, but so as as an experienced
33:51
performer, you could just stop in the middle and say, hey
33:54
everyone, can I get a show of hands from people who came here
33:57
tonight to listen to a bunch of unfunny wankers shout play the
34:00
hits? And that would generally succeed
34:05
at turning the rest of the audience against them.
34:08
But for that to work, you need a large enough audience for to
34:14
show that they're getting annoyed by those people.
34:17
Back in spring last year there was at the old Pint Pot in in
34:22
Salford. It was a good few weeks in a
34:26
row. There was a problem with coked
34:27
up knob heads just interrupting the acts and and giving
34:32
unsolicited advice about making it in the music industry.
34:36
And there was this. Even before anyone started
34:39
playing you could just tell he was going to be an obnoxious
34:41
wanker. But this, this, this big fat.
34:43
His friends left before the ACT started because they even they
34:47
probably didn't like him and he was a when he saw someone, the
34:51
host, get up and play guitars. It people are playing music.
34:54
I'm going to be the Simon Cowell and I'm going to discover, see,
34:58
see which one of you is the next Ed Sheeran?
35:01
So, so if he thinks Simon Cowell is some kind of arbiter of good
35:05
taste and he's obviously a crayon eating simpleton, he
35:10
thinks it being the next Ed Sheeran should be any music
35:16
musicians ambition shows. He's obviously a bit of a
35:19
credit. But then I think I was about 3rd
35:24
or 4th and just one of these people who who was just
35:26
muttering out loud his feedback through every performer.
35:29
And I was about third up. So and, and I open with the song
35:33
Cheap Hotel, because if any, if the audience are boneheads, then
35:38
that's the one I open with because it's it's the least
35:40
difficult to appreciate or engage with.
35:42
And just towards the end, he's just shaking his head.
35:46
Now you're not for me, you're not for me.
35:50
And he turns around and then through the second song Voice of
35:52
a Generation, he has his back to me and he's talking to the other
35:55
musicians. And then he goes to the toilet.
35:59
And I thought the other musicians were kind of piss
36:02
hands for not telling him to shut up.
36:04
But what can you do? So, but you just have to accept
36:09
the open mic level. You can't, can't exactly throw a
36:12
tantrum and say I'm a serious artist, so you just got to let
36:15
it go. It's.
36:17
Just crazy though, that people like that that show up and I can
36:20
fuck of like a handful of of similar experiences and it's
36:26
it's just like, what's the point?
36:27
You know what I mean? Like what is the fucking point?
36:29
You just happened. To be in a pub and you didn't
36:31
even know there would be live music.
36:32
No, it's true. It's just that the people and
36:36
and the host the next day posted on Instagram saying I wish, I
36:40
wish I could be more confrontational because it's
36:43
just these these CIS hat white men who think they know
36:46
everything and have no self-awareness.
36:47
And I'm old fashioned. I don't think as being a CIS hat
36:50
white male hadn't it was in any way related to him being a
36:53
prick. He was just a, just A and it's
37:00
not illegal to be a prick, nor should it be.
37:06
So you've just got to just got to let it go.
37:10
But then by by contrast, at the Old Monkey last year, for a good
37:14
few weeks in a row, I really had the luck of the draw when it
37:17
came to raucous audiences who were really getting it.
37:21
And there just every about about four occasions in a row, every
37:26
performance at the Old Monkey just landed.
37:29
And we all have nights like that, and we all have nights
37:32
like the one I just described too.
37:34
Yeah, I mean, I remember one in particular where we were pissed
37:38
on ourselves laughing so much. I, I almost felt rude, but I was
37:42
like, no, but this is the point. I was supposed to laugh.
37:45
I was. And it just, it got very, very,
37:49
very. And I just could not stop
37:50
laughing. Yeah, there's some outrageous
37:53
humour. Loved it.
37:54
And it's very, if you look at for, for the listeners of the
37:57
show, if you look at the reviews of of Kev online, there's one in
38:00
particular that I saw that stood out where it kind of said that
38:03
like just when you think you're done.
38:06
Kind of you're breaking up. Thinking it's like this funny,
38:09
it gets out even more outrageous and you're looking up, sorry.
38:14
Your audio broke up just now but but I think I got most of what
38:17
you were saying. Yeah, but basically I was just
38:20
saying that like the the humour it basically it gets to one
38:27
point where you feel like guilty for laughing at it, but then
38:30
that makes you laugh even more at the sake of laughing at it,
38:33
basically. Yeah, I think one of my favorite
38:35
things that I just overheard someone say about my work this
38:39
this past year was at the old monkey with someone.
38:41
He'd also been there a few weeks in a row.
38:43
He said every boundary, everything you're not supposed
38:48
to joke about or laugh about, Kev jokes about it and left and
38:53
gets you laughing your tits off. So yeah, I felt that that was
38:56
heartening because every. Because when something is a
39:00
taboo subject, all the more reason to go there.
39:03
It's like 1 of yeah, One of the great novels of the 20th
39:06
century, Lolita, is narrated by Humbert Humbert.
39:12
And that the less said about him as a person, the better.
39:14
But the book is an absolute masterpiece.
39:16
You're breaking up a bit there. Yeah, you've been breaking up
39:19
the whole time on my end as well.
39:21
I'm trying to. It's one of those, but we keep
39:27
rolling. So let's talk about maybe some
39:33
more positive experiences with hacklers.
39:35
Have you ever had like a particular one that stands out
39:38
or hilarious interaction, something that just made it?
39:40
Really memorable. Well, because when it comes to
39:46
playing a gig, I script everything down to a less detail
39:49
and I have a set listed. It's the old Eisenhower quote.
39:53
Plans are worthless. Planning is everything because
39:56
you've got to be very well prepared, but also a lot of the
40:01
the best and worst moments will be things that you didn't
40:03
prepare for because it's like a getting audiences on side is the
40:07
definition of trying to herd cats.
40:09
So and the Academy 3 gig in 2022 after after one of my most
40:19
experimental songs, which was the only time I've ever played
40:22
it at a gig. And it went down quite well.
40:25
But I said to everyone, OK, thanks for laughing at that one,
40:27
everyone. You can go home and tell
40:29
everyone your friends that he's funny, but I think he's mentally
40:34
handicapped. And I heard one of the guys at
40:36
the front just said all our friends would just say, I
40:39
already knew that. So back and forth with the
40:43
audience because I don't like being heckled.
40:46
But you've got to, you've got to accept the back and forth.
40:49
And a lot of the best moments come from that as well.
40:53
Comes to the territory, I suppose.
40:56
Let's let's talk about bombing. I suppose it's a pretty standard
41:01
thing to experience in comedy. Is there any particular
41:05
experience that stands out for you?
41:07
And also, how do you sort of deal with that situation?
41:12
I wouldn't say I've had any really recent experiences of
41:16
really bad gigs. The the worst you get is is
41:18
people not paying attention most of the time.
41:23
Balmy. So last year I played a gig at
41:25
Swinton and only about 2/3 of the audience didn't really think
41:29
I I played my raciest, most extreme stuff and there was a
41:33
table full of blue haired feminists who were who were
41:36
laughing out loud and loving it. But the rest, the average age
41:39
must have been over 70 and so. And it's not obviously my my
41:46
material is provocative and edgy, but I don't like
41:52
displeasing people. I am ultimately a people pleaser
41:54
who wants to be popular. So that wasn't a good
41:57
experience. But going about my first
41:59
attempts at stand up comedy bombed, as almost everyone's
42:02
does. So it's just part of a lesson.
42:06
So it's why I don't play Gong shows or that many comedy open
42:10
mics because like I remember at the the only time I went to see
42:13
that Gong show in the Northern Quarter, one of the acts, he his
42:19
first opening line was Hi, everyone.
42:22
So do we have any racists here tonight?
42:26
Fuck it out. Do we have any homophobes here
42:29
tonight? Do we have any trans phobes here
42:32
tonight? And it was for all three of
42:35
those questions. It was total silence.
42:36
But actually in many contexts that would be a really good
42:39
opening. It's just people that need to
42:41
know who you are to also. And the guy was, was ethnic, he
42:45
was South Asian, Indian or Pakistani.
42:48
So, so therefore the line about racism is a bit different
42:51
compared to if if some, some stereotypical looking reform
42:57
supporter said those lines. And then so he got gonged off
43:00
after less than a minute. Oh, he didn't even get to do his
43:05
set. He just.
43:06
That that's it's, yes, that's what happens at Gong Show.
43:09
You just get jeered off the stage.
43:12
And there was another guy, there was another guy who he can't
43:14
have been older than 25, and he was joking about his job, which
43:20
was working in the kindergarten. And I didn't think his material
43:23
was bad, but he got gunned off after about a minute and a half.
43:27
And so after the that really unpleasant frog sound and he had
43:32
to walk off stage, up the steps where everyone can see you
43:36
wander, toddling off stage with your tail between your legs, the
43:41
compare got on the mic and said you probably shouldn't be joking
43:44
about children when you look and sound like a child molester.
43:50
Jeez. As if getting gonged off
43:52
wouldn't be traumatic enough. So.
43:55
Roasted on the way out, poor bastard.
43:59
And not to mention if if he was anyone of any importance, he
44:03
could have probably sued for slander.
44:05
But you have to when you're a nobody, you have to just live
44:08
with it. Well, that that begs an
44:11
interesting question, though. Someone makes like a a joke and
44:14
a fucking comedy stage about another famous person or
44:17
whatever. Like there's no way you could
44:19
ever sue for defamation. That's just the, you know, I
44:23
don't know, because, because like we've had, we've had these
44:27
situations over the years and we were big comedians where someone
44:30
said something just outrageous about someone.
44:35
And maybe like, like that old fucking, what was that old weird
44:40
rumour about Richard Gere that apparently shoves ferrets up his
44:43
ass or something? And it's like, yeah, it's like,
44:46
like someone started that for a laugh and then it just sort of
44:49
caught on. There's an episode of The
44:51
Simpsons that that lampoons that when when that Patty or Selma,
44:55
whichever one of my just sisters marries a Troy McClure, the
44:59
actor, and it hints that he has a really peculiar fetish, which
45:01
is a joke about the the Richard Gere rumor.
45:05
But I think Frankie Boyle successfully sue one of the one
45:09
of the red tops. I think it was the son for
45:12
describing him as a racist comedian.
45:15
And obviously he jokes about every, every taboo subject,
45:18
including race, but he he managed to.
45:23
But he's not like a birded manning type where he.
45:26
No and. Minorities.
45:30
That that's, that's the key, isn't it?
45:31
Like he he famously got kicked off, mocked the week for a
45:36
pretty outrageous joke, but and he ran with it and he was still
45:41
just as successful after the fact.
45:44
But maybe it's he got like lobbed in with the others that
45:46
are like can't be on TV, whereas he's done plenty of TV work
45:49
since. It's not like he was banned from
45:52
television. He was just his particular brand
45:54
of comedy, at least in the 2000s, was just maybe too risque
46:00
towards the end. I don't know.
46:02
I mean, I feel like everyone was pretty risky then so.
46:05
It's a cliche to say comedians shouldn't punch down, which I
46:09
don't think that's enough because it's hard to define what
46:13
punching down is. Because if you if you make a
46:16
joke about say trans people, who's to say that trans people
46:20
are necessarily all delicate little flowers who can't take a
46:25
joke? So I wouldn't say it's
46:26
necessarily punching down to make a joke about trans people.
46:29
But I think what the reason why it generally works for me is is
46:37
it's about making. As long as you yourself are at
46:41
least 70 to 80% the butt of the joke, then you can get away with
46:46
almost anything. Because whereas it's like, it's
46:51
like in the early 90s during the, the first STEM Gulf War,
46:56
Bernard Manning made a joke about Iraqi women being ugly and
47:00
it was just pure punching down. And no, no irony, no anything.
47:05
Whereas usually when I, when I perform a song like you can't
47:09
say anything these days, you know, on one level it does, it
47:13
does joke about these really taboo subjects.
47:15
But ultimately what people are laughing at is me playing this
47:20
sort of Alf Garnet type who complaints you can't say
47:23
anything these days when really you're, you're, you're living
47:26
proof that that free speech is in is in decent health, if you
47:32
know what I mean. But Alf Garnett's a good example
47:35
I mentioned in an earlier interview.
47:36
That is the TV character from the 60s and 70s when people
47:43
watch him on TV, what they're so he he'll be ranting about a
47:46
particular minority group like immigrants or or puffers or
47:50
something like that. But what you're laughing at
47:54
when, when you watch his TV show till death do us part is is not,
47:58
you know, you're laughing at his bigotry.
48:01
So really the butt of the joke is elf Garnet.
48:04
So it's, it's, it's very different from the burden
48:06
banning approach, which is just pure, pure mockery of of the
48:10
vulnerable. What do you make of, let's say,
48:15
the sort of the UK modern kind of brand of comedy?
48:19
Because a lot of people say it's very watered down.
48:20
It's it's just not funny. It's, you know, yeah, just not
48:26
funny, you know, just too scared to be risky.
48:28
What do you make of that? I need to know some specific
48:33
examples. Yeah.
48:35
I couldn't give you any specifics unfortunately.
48:37
But like, suppose if we're comparing it to like previous
48:39
decades, maybe. But maybe that's a.
48:41
Bit the comedians, the comedians who sell out massive arenas
48:44
around the world are all quite non woke.
48:47
So Dave Chappelle is is a outspokenly on team turf.
48:53
So he's quite, he jokes about the trans issue, but he's not
48:57
very pro trans. Ricky Gervais the same.
49:02
I think he's a far better actor and sitcom writer than he is a
49:06
stand up comedian. So he doesn't.
49:08
He doesn't really make me laugh as a stand up.
49:11
Shots fired. No, no, the Office and the
49:14
extras are absolute classics, but his his stand up.
49:18
Well, can you think of any particular moments from his
49:20
stand up that were up there with the Vastism I?
49:24
Think some of his early stuff like politics and fame were
49:29
good. I felt like they kind of went
49:31
hand in hand with the office and extras because he was almost
49:34
like playing a character. And like I've noticed some
49:37
comedians do that. Ricky doesn't do it as much
49:41
anymore, but like you're his his kind of character was almost
49:48
playing like this arrogant prick.
49:49
That's, you know, like especially if you watch was the
49:54
one he did in sort of 2013 science.
49:57
He really leans into that character then.
49:59
And it's obviously all a piss take.
50:01
But like he he makes jokes about things like when the ash cloud
50:04
went over and and you know, he took like a helicopter or some
50:09
shit and everyone else was using boats.
50:11
And he's just like laughing about that.
50:14
Like he didn't mean it in the literal sense, but he was
50:17
playing off the fact that he was quite famous.
50:19
He's a famous celebrity so he can kind of get away with this
50:22
behaviour kind of thing. Well, one is, is retired now,
50:26
but one of my all time favorite stand ups is is Lee Evans.
50:29
Yeah, if if you try to if you try to quote a Lee Evans joke
50:34
and and tell it to your mates in a pub, it wouldn't be funny
50:36
because it's just all about the whole experience to just the
50:39
physicality and the screaming, because the the observations
50:43
aren't necessarily that cutting edge.
50:45
But he's just, it's just the unpretentious joie of eve of it.
50:51
Whereas he's, I mean, he's not some, some sort of pretending to
50:56
be some kind of a philosopher. He's just funny as anything.
51:00
Can you say that about any sort of joke though?
51:02
It's all about the delivery really isn't.
51:04
It some comedians tell actually really good jokes or make really
51:07
witty and funny observations, whereas so so two of my favorite
51:12
comedians are both boomers who both died in the past five
51:16
years. So Gilbert Gottfried and Norm
51:19
MacDonald and they were friends with each other.
51:21
Their delivery style was completely contrasting.
51:24
So Gilbert Gottfried was screamy and manic.
51:27
Norm MacDonald was a rambling and quietly spoken.
51:37
But what one thing they had in common was the jokes were
51:41
terrible, but the delivery was was great.
51:46
But someone like George Carlin was very quotable for the really
51:51
witty observations. Same with them.
51:54
Same with Louis CK. Again, I'm not saying if you if
51:57
you quoted their material word for word with your mates in a
52:00
pub, it wouldn't necessarily be that funny.
52:03
But. My favorites is Bill Hicks.
52:06
I love Bill Hicks. The because because they
52:11
philosophize on stage and then just happened to be funny.
52:16
So it's the the the being funny is almost just incidental to it.
52:20
It's it's the it's the philosophy that really grabs you
52:24
in his memorable. Over the years, a few people
52:27
have said I should try comedy and I'm like, absolutely fucking
52:30
not. I'm not funny, but they're like,
52:33
why don't you try it? Try something new.
52:35
And it's like, because A, it's terrifying.
52:37
BI think you have to have a particular mindset for that and
52:41
C if it were me doing it, all I would be doing is being a
52:45
sarcastic prick. I don't know that that's funny,
52:48
unless you're like Jack D maybe. Yeah, Jack D is good.
52:53
I like Jack D, But I think it's one of the contrasts between
52:58
comedy and other offers that novelists, novelists don't have
53:02
to show their early drafts to the general public.
53:05
It's true to the editor and maybe the occasional very close
53:09
friend who you who you trust and whose opinion you value.
53:12
Whereas comedy, the only way to know whether something is is
53:15
funny at all is to play in public.
53:19
Terrifying that. And yeah, so that that's why
53:24
even even the household names have to play small comedy venues
53:27
to to Polish their new material and to work it out this.
53:32
Is this is also the reason why I never ever give like comedian
53:36
shit. Even if there's a comedian, they
53:38
bomb on stage like takes fucking balls to go out on stage and
53:43
just do comedy because it's all we.
53:45
I think people forget this as well.
53:47
It's you're just on stage with a microphone.
53:50
That's it like that. That's terrifying.
53:54
Like even just getting in front of people, like I, I'm very used
53:58
to it over the years because they've just been doing it for
54:00
so long. But like, it's, you still get
54:02
nervous. I mean, do you still get nervous
54:03
going on stage? Absolutely, but it's better than
54:06
the the opposite, which is to be cocky because as soon as your
54:08
cock, yeah, it's like as soon as you think you have the keys to
54:11
comedy, you you realise some boogers change the lock and you
54:15
actually know nothing. Yeah, I think.
54:19
Every day is a life lesson. Yeah, it would be unwise to not
54:23
get nervous before you're on stage, but we all know.
54:27
So we all know people like so. So Peter Kay, for example, is
54:30
someone who who could just be, he could just read out a
54:32
shopping list and be funny or, or someone like him.
54:36
I don't watch him, but Michael McIntyre is probably the kind of
54:39
guy who who could just be on the phone ordering a pizza and make
54:42
you laugh. And none of the comedians who
54:45
were among my favorites are really like that.
54:47
And God knows I've never been like that.
54:49
So I so my favorite part of the creative process is sitting
54:53
alone in a cafe with a pen and paper and a notebook, just
54:57
brainstorming ideas, brainstorming ideas.
55:00
And then ideas slowly come together.
55:03
Now some of them, some of them come fully formed, like the the
55:06
song, the songs I wrote last year, sort of mill ascent,
55:09
falling in love with a mermaid, the FVSDA, How do I say I love
55:14
you? So I think they're four of my
55:16
best of songs and they all just, they all just came into my head
55:19
fully formed and I just had to write them down really.
55:22
But then the the previous year, it took months to finish
55:24
anything. So that the song I had a vague
55:28
idea that I wanted to write about toxic masculinity.
55:31
And so I I finished with the song.
55:34
What a piece of work is man, which is obviously a quote from
55:37
from Hamlet, but took pages upon pages of drafts just to figure
55:42
out where I was going to go with the idea and how it's it's
55:45
obviously the extra hoop you have to jump through is to try
55:47
to be funny as opposed to because in in almost any other
55:50
form of music, lyrics are just a contractual obligation.
55:53
They're not really the most important part, but for me they
55:55
are. And so that took months and then
55:57
at the same time I was working out had a vague idea I wanted to
56:01
write a song about ancestors. So I finished and ended with a
56:05
song called You're Amazing, which about originally it was
56:08
over 7 minutes, now it's just under 6 minutes because I
56:11
managed to to cut some of it down and because you're A and I
56:17
got, I decided I wanted to write something about ancestors in
56:20
2020 when the Colston statue was torn down.
56:23
But again, I had no idea what angle I was going to take or
56:26
where I was going to go with it, or how on earth I was going to
56:29
even try to make it funny. But I finished something
56:32
eventually, so the IT is getting up on stage and making people
56:39
laugh is a really heartening experience.
56:42
And it's when it it's one of my favorite feelings when it
56:46
happens. But for me, the the most
56:48
rewarding part is the process. I've.
56:50
Got a couple of final questions for you.
56:52
Completely sort of unrelated to today's show except for one, but
56:57
we'll start with the first one. What has comedy taught you about
57:01
life? It's taught me a a good few
57:05
things. So number one is people aren't
57:11
really watching you. So I was raised Catholic, which
57:15
so the school I went, I went to a Catholic school where you
57:18
would be more, you will be more severely punished for looking
57:22
like a bad person than being a bad person.
57:24
So an egregious haircut was more punishable than say, being a
57:28
bully because it's all about looking the part rather than
57:31
being the part. But then the the the older I
57:34
get, the more I realize nobody's really noticing you or watching
57:37
you or thinking about you. So you can have a terrible night
57:40
on stage and almost everyone will not even remember it within
57:44
a week. So it's so you shouldn't be
57:47
afraid of making a perfect ass of yourself.
57:49
Not not that you should not that you should want to fail, but I'm
57:52
saying just it's a if. If you have a a terrible
57:56
experience on stage, then people are too focused on themselves to
58:01
really be judging you or care that much about you.
58:05
So what I've learned about people, what else have I
58:10
learned? That what I've learned about
58:13
life, that making something is from is far more important than
58:23
being something if, if makes sense.
58:26
So it's the fact that I've written dozens and dozens of
58:31
songs in English, couple of dozen songs in in Chinese, and
58:36
the, and it's from, from the seed of an idea in my head to
58:42
pages of jotting down ideas to the finished product which you
58:45
perform on stage or put online. That's what I really enjoy.
58:52
And the, the, the gratification, the validation is nice, but it's
58:58
not the point. So that's what I've said.
59:01
Last year, several people who I know had had major, quote UN
59:06
quote successes. So a guy who I went to school
59:08
with won a BAFTA and was up on stage at the Royal Albert Hall,
59:11
which is great. But I don't, I don't envy that
59:14
sort of thing. Because for me it's a, it's all
59:19
well, it's all the game of chance for a start.
59:22
And he has his journey to go on and I have mine.
59:26
I begged the question as well, like, do accolades and status
59:31
and numbers really equate to greatness?
59:33
As you say, it's it's luck at the draw like you do, You know
59:38
what I mean? Like those people I see on stage
59:42
right now, actual comedians who in my opinion, like do shits,
59:48
drizzling shits, They're not funny at all.
59:50
And I see Someone Like You where I'm like pissing myself
59:53
laughing. I'm like, well, you can make the
59:54
argument that's just my humor. But like.
59:59
Most most Booker pretty Booker prize winning novels are
1:00:03
borderline unreadable. If you if you go back through a
1:00:07
list of Nobel laureates or Oscar winners, most of the names after
1:00:12
a couple of decades would would draw blank stares because.
1:00:16
Nothing, nothing really leaves a lasting impact or deep down
1:00:19
really makes anyone feel anything.
1:00:21
So just I Daydream about fame and fortune as much as the next
1:00:25
person, But it's that's that's a weakness in in that's it.
1:00:31
In my lower moments, I think it's being an artist about the
1:00:36
is about the process and the desire to make things.
1:00:40
I like that you're honest about it though, Like I choose to do
1:00:43
the same thing as well. Like you talk about validation
1:00:46
and stuff and it's obviously it's not the driving force, but
1:00:49
it is there. Like you want your work to be
1:00:52
heard to, you know, to be recognized.
1:00:55
You know, it's on some level it's important, but as you said,
1:01:00
it should never stop you from like creating.
1:01:03
I think like that. I sometimes I think about the
1:01:05
podcast because I don't in real life.
1:01:09
I don't really talk about what I do unless someone asks.
1:01:14
Like I'll boy, it just comes up in conversation.
1:01:17
But then sometimes I realise the things we do that for us is just
1:01:21
not the norm. Like doing a podcast for six
1:01:24
years. To me, that's just the thing I
1:01:26
do. But then people sometimes will
1:01:29
be like, wow, that's incredible. And I'm like, is it?
1:01:32
And but then when you sit and you think about everything that
1:01:35
you do, you know, so in your case, going on stage singing
1:01:40
songs in English, in fucking Chinese, that's incredible, you
1:01:43
know, playing and singing and making it funny, but also, you
1:01:48
know, making a good song as well on stage in front of people.
1:01:52
It's massive. It really is.
1:01:55
Well, and it, it, it, I feel no closer to, to earning a living
1:02:01
from it than I ever was. But it's what makes life worth
1:02:04
living. And again, it would probably,
1:02:08
and it would probably take all the enjoyment out of it anyway
1:02:10
because, well, because then it wouldn't.
1:02:12
Something becomes the job. It involves deadlines, it
1:02:14
involves pleasing your superiors.
1:02:16
It involves commutes, it involves being polite to people
1:02:20
who you can barely stand. So it's I'm not too displeased
1:02:25
about the status quo by any means.
1:02:27
What's the best advice you've ever received?
1:02:30
Never eat yellow snow. No, I'd say I had it during one
1:02:37
of my university summers. I had it.
1:02:39
Far from being a pleasant experience, but selling door to
1:02:42
door in the USI learned many disciplines and control the
1:02:49
controllables is the best of these.
1:02:51
It's been a whirlwind, man. Thank you so much for for coming
1:02:54
on the show and giving us a bit of insight into your insight and
1:03:00
also just kind of like educating us a little bit.
1:03:02
I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
1:03:04
I wish you all the best with all your coming projects, even the
1:03:07
ones that you have to keep secret.
1:03:09
I am guided. We couldn't talk about that
1:03:11
here, but let's just say Kev has big plans for 2026, so stay
1:03:16
tuned. Thank you so much for watching
1:03:19
and listening to the Christian Reef Podcast.
1:03:21
And as always, be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next
1:03:24
one.