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Trump Stokes Border Chaos · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Leavitt.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Joe Biden wins the South Carolina primary.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Nikki Haley does SNL. Donald Trump throws his RNC chair
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: under the bus. and we all creep closer to regional
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: war in the Middle East. But first, Democrats and Republicans
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: in the Senate finally unveiled a bill that would reform
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: our border, asylum, and immigration laws, while also providing aid
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan, and some humanitarian relief for Palestinians.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: President Biden, Chuck Schumer, and Mitch McConnell all support the deal,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: but Donald Trump has ordered Republicans to kill it, and
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: sure enough, Mike Johnson says it's dead in the House.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Still unclear if it can even pass the Senate. Fortunately,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: we have some great intel on that. Lovett just talked
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, the deal's lead Democratic negotiator.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: So we're going to listen to what he says, and
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: then we'll talk more about the politics. Here it is.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Senator Chris Murphy, good to have you back on Pod
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Save America.
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, awesome to be with you guys. Thanks for having me.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: You were the lead Democratic negotiator on this bipartisan border
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: proposal that also includes funding for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Can you talk briefly about what this proposal does and
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: why people thought a compromise like this might not even
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: be possible?
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know, listen, first of all, it preserves
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: the post-World War II order by saving Ukraine by making
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: sure that they have enough to fight throughout this calendar year.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: That's good for Ukraine. That's good for our fight to
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: prevent the takeover of Taiwan. That's good for our.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Allies in NATO.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: We wanted to get Ukraine money done last fall, but
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Republicans told us that notwithstanding their support for Ukraine funding,
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: they wouldn't vote for it unless the bill also included
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: provisions to make changes at the border.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: So we took them at their word.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: And we spent four months negotiating changes in our immigration
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: and border laws to help the president better manage the
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: flow of people across the border. Obviously, it's not great
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: when you have 10,000 people showing up on a daily
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: basis unplanned, but also to fix our broken asylum system, right?
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: You come to the United States, you apply for asylum.
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: It can sometimes take 10 years to get that claim approved.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: That's not fair either. Now, I was pessimistic that we
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: could get this done. I mean, we don't normally have
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: much success finding bipartisan compromise on the question of immigration,
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: but we did it. Senator Lankford, nine, Senator Sinema got
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: a deal done on new powers at the border, a
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: new asylum system, and the deal's going to be good
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: for the country. And it also gets Ukraine funded. So
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: it's now coming to the floor of the Senate, and
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: we'll see whether Republicans were serious. They said they wanted
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: to pair border policy and Ukraine funding. Maybe they didn't
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: really think we'd get it done. We did, and now
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: they have a chance to vote on a pretty landmark
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: bipartisan achievement on both immigration and border reform and support
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: for Ukraine, Israel, and humanitarian assistance.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Now, This wasn't a year ago that Republicans were saying this.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: This was as recently as December. And there are a
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: lot of people that said it couldn't happen, but that
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: this is what Republicans were demanding for Ukraine aid. Now
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: you have, just a few weeks later, Donald Trump's agitating
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: against the bill. Your colleague and negotiating partner, James Lankford,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: is getting censured just for the sin of participating in
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: the negotiations. You have Republicans like Mike Johnson coming out
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: before the bill is done. You have senators Basically saying
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: just the fact that Democrats and Republicans work together is
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: what Josh Hawley said today is a problem in and
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: of itself. It does seem as though Senator Lankford went
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: out on a limb and now his colleagues are sawing
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: it off. Are you surprised by how quickly his Republicans
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: turned against Republicans on this? And behind the scenes, are
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: the sort of serious Republicans who have negotiated this deal frustrated?
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: I wish I was shocked by it, but this is
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: part of the reason why we were reluctant to engage
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: in this conversation, because we knew that any bipartisan immigration
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: reform proposal would be opposed by Donald Trump. Why is that?
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump has no interest in solving the crisis at
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: the border. He wants to preserve chaos at the border
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: because it's good for him electorally. So you go into
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: these negotiations knowing that even if you do get a deal,
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: it's going to be opposed by Donald Trump. And if
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: it's opposed by Donald Trump, you know that there's going
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: to be a bunch of Republicans that are going to
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: side with him and his political interests instead of siding
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: with what's good for the country. So this is not
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: an unexpected position to be in.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: But I did think with all these.
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: Republican senators telling Senator Lankford to go get a deal
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: with me and Senator Sinema, that enough of them would
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: stick with him to get the bill across the finish line.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: That is not certain today. It's not clear whether there
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: will be just 15 or 20 Republicans that will stand
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: with Senator Lankford and stand with the country to back
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: up these common sense changes in immigration policy. We will see,
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: but it wouldn't obviously be shocking to anybody if Donald
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: Trump ultimately won out here and his desire to preserve
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: chaos at the border ultimately won the day.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: So one argument in recent days is that President Biden
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: doesn't need additional authority to control the border. That must
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: have come as a surprise to you, especially as Republicans
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: have been pushing for H.R. 2. What did you make
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: of that argument?
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: So why is it called H.R. 2? It's H.R. 2
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: because it was the second bill introduced by Republicans when
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: they won the majority. It was so important to them
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: to pass new law giving the president new power to
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: control the border that they made it the second bill
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: that they introduced. And so Republicans have been super consistent
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: for the last year and a half about the white
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: hot need to pass new immigration laws right up until
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: the point in which it was actually possible to pass
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: new immigration laws because most House Republicans weren't sincere about
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: actually fixing the problem. They have become so addicted to
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: complaining about the problem, they've been so addicted to using
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: immigration and the border as a political cudgel come election time,
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: that they can't conceive of it going away, right? The
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: idea that there might be less scenes of thousands of
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: people presenting at the border in an unplanned way this
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: summer and this fall, that is paralyzing to many House
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: Republicans because they don't have anything to run on other
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: than criticizing the president on the border. And so.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: This is new.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: Information to me that Republicans in the House are all
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: of a sudden saying, well, the president doesn't need any
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: new authority. They've been pushing for that new authority right
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: up until the point when it was possible that the
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: new authority would actually become law.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: What is your response to the criticisms from the left?
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Because if you do want to pass through the Senate,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: you don't just need Republicans, you need enough Republicans to
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: overcome any Democrats you might lose. What is your response
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: to the criticism from the left that this is enforcement
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: only and will lead to more hardships for people with
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: legitimate claims to asylum while not actually reducing the chaos
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: at the border?
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is going to be an old-fashioned compromise.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: There are going to be a lot of Republicans who
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: will vote against it, but there are going to be
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: some Democrats that are going to vote against it. And
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: I think largely for this reason, this bill... is not
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: comprehensive immigration reform, and it doesn't include a pathway to
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: citizenship for undocumented Americans. And I'm heartbroken over that. But
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: I do think that the situation at the border has
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: become so unmanageable on many days that it is threatening
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: to unwind mainstream Americans' confidence in the legal immigration system.
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: And so if we want to preserve the asylum system
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: and the refugee system, I do think we have to
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: make some reforms to those systems and how the border
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: is managed. And I think that is in service of
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: progressives' desire in the long run to be able to
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: keep those pathways open. But, John, the bill also does
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: have some really important wins for progressives. This bill includes
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: the biggest expansion of family reunification visas in recent memory.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: It includes, for the first time ever, a right to
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: counsel for all migrants to the country. It actually has
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: government paid for counsel for unaccompanied minors. It gets work
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: authorizations to migrants much quicker, right? You have all these
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: immigrants on the streets in homeless shelters because they can't
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: work for a year after they get to the United States.
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: This bill fixes that problem. So yes, this isn't everything
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: that progressives want, but I think it's important to make
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: a down payment on reform to preserve sort of the
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: bulk of Americans' faith in the system. And there are
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: some important wins in here for progressives and immigrant right groups.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I hear you sort of trying to
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: strike a balance. On the one hand, as you pointed
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: out at the top, that this negotiation only took place
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: because Ukrainian funding was on the line. But at the
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: same time, that there is a real crisis at the border.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: It does threaten to change the politics of this issue.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: Democratic mayors are dealing with this crisis as it hits
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: their cities. Do you believe this bipartisan immigration piece is
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: worthy and good in and of itself? Or would you
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: not be behind this kind of proposal if not for
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: the Ukraine hostage taking?
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: I think it's worthwhile in and of itself. I was
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: reluctant to start this conversation because I didn't think it
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: was possible to get a bipartisan immigration reform bill done.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: And since it hasn't gotten a vote on the Senate floor,
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: I'm still not sure that it's possible. But I actually
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: do believe that this isn't 2013 anymore. I mean, back then,
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: you know, there were maybe 500 people every day applying
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: for asylum at the southern border. Today, it's 8,000, 10,000 people.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: And if you look all around the world, you are
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: seeing left governments and center left governments being brought down
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: by the issue of immigration and hard right nationalist regimes
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: taking their place. And so I think as a progressive constituency,
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: as a democratic movement that cares deeply about preserving the
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: pathways of legal immigration, we do need to understand that
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: the status quo is not sustainable. and that if we
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: ever wanna be in a position to win those fights
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: on behalf of DREAMers or undocumented Americans, it frankly serves
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: our interest to show Americans that we can handle our
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: existing immigration system in a more orderly way. So I
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: get it that this isn't the way that a lot
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: of advocates thought this was gonna play out. Everybody thought
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: that when you did a big immigration deal, a pathway
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: to citizenship was definitely gonna be there. But I worry
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: that if we don't take this step, Harder more dystopian
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: times are ahead of us when it comes to migration
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: politics in the United States.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: So one last question just on the immigration piece and
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: the process Obviously, you know, there's a joint statement by
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Republican leaders in the house saying this thing is dead
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: on arrival They don't want it to pass the Senate
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: If it passes the Senate what happens?
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: So I think they do not want it to pass
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: the Senate because they know if it did and it
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: had a good bipartisan vote in the Senate, there would
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: be a lot of pressure to bring it up for
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: a vote in the House. Because there are a not
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: insignificant number of House Republicans who desperately want Ukraine aid
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: and who are willing to look at the changes we
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: made to the border on the merits. So Johnson just
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: doesn't want to have to deal with the ratcheted up
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: pressure that would exist on him both on passing border
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: reform and on passing Ukraine aid if we get this
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: bill out of the Senate. If it fails, then he
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: can just throw his hands up and say, well, the
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: Senate couldn't get their act together. Until the Senate figures
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: their stuff out, I'm just not going to do anything
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: on Ukraine or the border. So this is just a
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: play to prevent him from having to figure out a
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: path forward on Ukraine and on immigration. It's a bluff, essentially,
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: and it's a bluff that the Senate should call.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we're going to play the rest of that
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: interview later. Senator Murphy also talked to Lovett about two
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: equally important topics, war in the Middle East and pizza. Yeah,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: you bet.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Connecticut pizza, to be specific.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Don't spoil it.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I can't tell if he liked it or not.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: But anyway... Let's start with what we just heard Murphy
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: say about the immigration deal. He basically said he expected
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Trump and Mike Johnson to kill this deal, but still
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: thought there'd be enough Republican votes in the Senate to
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: pass it. Now he's not so sure. He also thinks
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: if it does pass the Senate, Johnson knows there will
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: be pressure to give it a vote in the House. Tommy, politically,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: do you think it makes a difference whether or not
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the Senate passes this?
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I think the Senate passing this bill will definitely help
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Biden focus attention on it. So to the extent you
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: want a political fight, I think the Senate passage would
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: be useful. I don't think they need the Senate to
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: pass the bill to make the case that Republicans are
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: obstructing immigration reform because they think it might help Biden politically.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Republicans have given them all kinds of quotes where they
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: say it explicitly. And so Biden should have a field
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: day with that. I just think it will get easier, though,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: to get the press corps involved. to cover what's happening
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: if there's actual movement. Obstruction, unfortunately, as we learned through
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: years of Mitch McConnell, is hard for the press to cover.
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: It's kind of the same story every day.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Love it. What was your take on it?
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: I think reading between the lines, it feels like there
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: was maybe a hope that what the opposition to this
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: border agreement would look like would be the opposition to
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: bipartisan budget agreements, right? That it might more take the
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: shape of that, where you have something that could potentially
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: pass the Senate in a bipartisan way and then kind
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: of die in the House or meet right-wing resistance in
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: the House. I think that it does seem like the
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: number of Republican senators that have been willing to come
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: out against this, I think maybe is a little bit
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: more than sounds like he expected, but I don't know.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do think it only matters on the.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: Margins because whether It died in both chambers or just
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: the House. Republicans decided to, out of fealty for Donald Trump,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: kill something important that they requested.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: That is true regardless.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: You can tell that they, Republicans, really don't want it
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to pass the Senate.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Did you notice there's a concerted effort underway to make
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: James Lankford the fall guy for this whole thing? Trump
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: said on Monday that he didn't even endorse the guy,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: which is not true. There's a whole statement from him
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: endorsing him. Mike Lee's staff reportedly yelled at Lankford's staff
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: at a meeting yesterday. and accuse them of betrayal. So
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: it is much harder for them to define this deal
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: as the work of like some rogue rhino if it
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: passes the Senate, right? Like they can't do that. And
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: so they don't want... Because if Joe Biden and Democrats
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: can go around being like, look, there's this many Republican
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: senators voted for this bill. The House decided to kill it.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump did it. It's just, it is a better argument.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I agree that you can make it either way, but
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I'd love it to pass the Senate.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: It is like... I know it's sort of like we've
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: set up, but like, man, what was said when Republicans
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: first started saying we will not support Ukraine funding unless
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: there is a border deal. Like at the time, people said, oh,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: this is just their way of killing Ukraine funding because
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: a border deal is basically impossible. And then they get
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: what is ultimately like, you know, there there are parts
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: that reform the asylum system. There are parts that reform
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: the visa system. But this is a border enforcement bill.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: They got what they wanted. And they really did catch
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: the car.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Because they did. I think they didn't believe the Democrats
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: would actually negotiate and meet them that far. Yeah, they
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: didn't believe it.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: They got what they wanted. And the kinds of things
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: that they're now mad about are like Senator Josh Hawley
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: is upset that the bill would give taxpayer funded lawyers
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: to certain migrants. Chris Murphy pointed out that that would
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: be for. unaccompanied children who cross the border. Like the
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: things they're mad about are so ridiculous and outrageous that
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: they're holding up to try to kill this bill. It's
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: just like, it shows you how, how trapped they feel.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And they're lying a lot about a lot of the
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: provisions too. Some of the, like they're mad about certain
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: things that are real, like you just mentioned, and then
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: some shit they're just lying about.
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a mix, right?
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Then there's, then you have like Langford having to go
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: on Fox and friends to be like, they're like, uh, uh,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: you know, one of those doofs asked him like, oh,
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: there's this money in here that seems that, that Republicans
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: are objecting to. And Langford's like, yeah, I mean, that's money.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: So people don't die of thirst in the desert. which
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: is not something as Americans.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: We would support.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: And then you have like Mike Lee and all these
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: other guys like lying about what the provisions on the
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: number of people that have to come in before these
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: rules kick in. And they're using that to say like, oh,
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: they want to allow 1.8 million undocumented people into the country,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: which is again, just like a bold faced lie. I
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: wonder if, you know, it's like there are all these
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Republicans that worked on this deal. Now they're having kind
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: of the lies Republicans normally reserve for us kind of
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: visited upon them.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's great. It's funny watching Lankford be like,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: what is this party? What are they doing? At one point,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Lankford said, I just want people to read the text
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of the bill because right now I think they're making
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of their judgments based on Facebook posts. I'm like, what?
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Not your fellow Republicans.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Can you believe it?
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: And then he's like, what?
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: You know, Mike Lee asked for three weeks to read
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: the bill but came out against it before it was out.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: What's going on?
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I've never seen that happen with my party before. There's gambling.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: There's gambling in this casino.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Well, so Trump and a lot of these Republicans opposed
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: to the deal are calling it open borders. It is,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of course, not. They're calling it an amnesty bill. It
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: grants no amnesty to anyone. Immigration activists and some progressive
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Democrats are saying it's too harsh and restrictive. Obviously, both
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: can't be right. What do you guys think?
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's absolutely not an open border amnesty bill.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: It's $ 14 billion for border enforcement. It reforms the asylum process.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: They make it harder to get into the country. The
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: authority to close the border if too many people cross unlawfully.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: It forces border wall construction. So that's just nonsense. I
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: definitely understand the criticism from the left. especially the fact that,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: and you addressed this with Senator Murphy, this doesn't provide
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: a pathway to citizenship for the dreamers, for kids who
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: are brought to the United States by their parents, have
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: lived here their entire lives, and face deportation to countries
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: they've never lived in, maybe don't speak the language, don't
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: know anybody. That is a tough pill to swallow. But
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: the other thing that, just for context, there are all
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: these changes to the asylum process, including the ability for
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the president to shut down the border between ports of entry,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: but those provisions sunset after a couple of years. So
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: they're not permanent changes. it is seemingly designed to address
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: what they feel like is an acute crisis that's been
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: happening over.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: The last couple of years.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: So, you know, Murphy's response, I'll let you guys listen
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: to Murphy's response to that argument.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I found it compelling.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I do think there's real concern that people feel like
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: the entire immigration system is totally broken and are so
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: angry about it that they're only going to support more
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: draconian things first before they are willing to reform the
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: entire system in ways that progressives might like.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I think that there was a longtime hope that you
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: would pair pathway to citizenship with stricter border enforcement to
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: get some kind of a compromise grand bargain on immigration.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I think that is long gone. And you were never
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: going to get a pathway to citizenship through this house.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: We're not even going to get an enforcement only bill
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: through this house. So that was never on the table.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: And the only way you're going to get a pathway
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: to citizenship is now if you have 60 Democratic votes
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: in the Senate or get rid of the filibuster and
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: a Democratic president, Democratic house. That's the only way we're
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: getting a pathway to citizenship is And doing an enforcement
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: bill now doesn't mean that you can't get that later
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: because there's no more such thing as a grand bargain
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: where you get both anymore. So what you need for
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: a pathway to citizenship is you need the Democratic votes,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you need it in the Senate. I do think that
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the challenge on changing the asylum laws, like you said,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: is if you're limiting applications for asylum to ports of entry,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: you definitely could have migrants with legitimate asylum claims get
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: turned away because they either couldn't show up at an
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: official port of entry or You also have to prove
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: that you couldn't relocate to a different part of your
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: own country and prove that you're fleeing persecution or torture,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: not just economic hardship or potential violence. And of course,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: it doesn't do anything to address the root causes of migration,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: as we've talked about before. So it is like you
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: are going to get some asylum seekers who are legitimate
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: asylum seekers not being able to get asylum because this
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: makes it more difficult. And they would say the reason
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: we're doing that is because when the border is overwhelmed,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: what else are we going to do?
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: And that is the point that Jayapal made, which is
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: that this will result in people who have a legitimate
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: claim being in potentially more dangerous circumstances in Mexico, unable
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: to apply. But at the same time, right now, if
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: you have a situation in which if you can apply
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: for asylum and the process is so broken that it
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: will be 10 years before your claim is fully adjudicated,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: that is both uncertainty for people who have legitimate claims
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: and also a way for people who don't have legitimate
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: claims to to be in that line with people who
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: desperately need to be in there according to the rules
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: because they know that there's 10 years before this will
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: ever come before a judge. Yeah.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: And I honestly, I don't really have an opinion on
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: this bill yet. Like it came out today, but it's
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: worth noting that for a while, the conversation and concern
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: about the border was like a Fox News right wing
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: media driven thing. Now you're seeing mayors in liberal cities
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: saying they're overwhelmed, their services are overwhelmed and they need help.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: In New York, Denver, places like that all over the country.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Well, and even progressive Democrats and others who've come out
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: against this bill have said that the system is broken.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: They know the system is broken. And I do think
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that Murphy's points about the sort of progressive wins in
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: this bill, like I hadn't heard those before. The idea that,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you know, also it's going to increase legal immigration, another 250,000
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: visas over five years. Um, the lawyers, uh, for migrants
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: who need them, especially children, faster decisions, like you said,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and it lets migrants who pass asylum screenings get work
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: permits so they can actually work because a lot of
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: the migrants who are in the cities and don't have
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: homes and are on the streets, it's because they can't work.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: And the point that Murphy makes too, that like, or
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: it's been 40 years since there's been any kind of
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: a big immigration reform. We, we were, we watched that
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: reform fail under the Bush administration, under the Obama administration.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: And it just, if the situation at the border gets worse,
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: that will create even less space for any kind of
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: compassionate and like kind of more progressive and just system.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: It just creates political space for people like Trump to
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: operate and scare people. You know, like when Abbott and
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: DeSantis did their little stunts.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Governor of Texas.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Governor of Texas.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: And Ron DeSantis, you know, he's in purgatory.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: They.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: they did their little, the stunt of sending planes to
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Martha's Vineyard and everybody said, oh, this is a disgusting
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: political stunt, which it was. But what's worse than a
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: disgusting political stunt is an ongoing busing operation that sends
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people to cities across
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: the country because that had a legitimate political impact.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: That was just effective.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: And when it stopped being a stunt, it started becoming
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: a policy stunt. it did change the politics around this
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: issue for those mayors, for example.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I think Murphy's, he's a world at heart and he's
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: looking around Europe and there's a big European election in
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: June and you're seeing polling show a lot of these
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: right-wing parties are ascendant and doing really well. And a
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: lot of the center-left parties are hurting. And some of
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: that is driven by concerns about migration and the feeling
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: that the system is broken.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: OK, so Senator Murphy and three of us were just
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: having sort of a reality based conversation about what's the
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: best policy to fix the border. Just to give everyone
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: an idea as to how Trump and Trump media is
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: discussing immigration. Here he is during a sit down interview
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: with Maria Bartiromo over the weekend.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: Look.
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: I want China to do great. I do. And I
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: like President Xi a lot. He was a very good
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: friend of mine during my term.
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: Well, look, COVID, COVID cover-up, intellectual property theft. The list
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: is long from our number one adversaries.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: I don't know if he's a friend.
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: No, but I got along with him great. I'm not
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: sure he loved what I was doing because I was,
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: you know, getting.
• 24:56
  Speaker 6: Along with him. I don't think he wants you in
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: the White House, Mr.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: President.
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: No, no, he doesn't. The market almost crashed when I
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: won Iowa and New Hampshire. The market went down tremendously.
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: The Chinese are paying $ 35, 000 a head, $ 50, 000 a head
• 25:08
  Speaker 6: to come to the southern border. They're paying the drug
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: cartels this money. The number of Chinese nationals, and they
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: are military-aged men.
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: You're right.
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: Off 1,100% year over year. Are they being directed by
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: the Communist Party to come here? I believe so.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: I believe so.
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: The heads of these countries are smart. They're not sending
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: the people that are doing a great job and that
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: they love in the country. They're sending people, for the
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: most part, that they don't want. And they're putting them
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: into caravans.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: You know what I love there is he's playing the
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: old hits, the original hit, right? They're sending them, right?
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: And then he's got some new stuff, right? Which is,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I love my communist dictator friend who's also directing... military-aged
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: men to come to invade the southern border.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: He's loved Xi for a while. He's a central casting character.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I haven't heard about the sending the military-aged men to
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: the southern border yet. That seems like a new one.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Also, the Chinese version of the S & P 500
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: is down 25% over the past year.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure it's just a Trump thing. Trump also
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: called the deal a gift to Democrats, a death wish
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: for Republicans, and said that immigration shouldn't be tied to
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: foreign aid in any way, shape or form, which is
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the exact opposite of what Republicans in Congress have demanded
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: for the last several months. It's the whole reason we
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: got into these negotiations in the first place.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: It's just like I said this to Murphy. This wasn't
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: two years ago. It was December. It was December. It
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: was a month ago, a month and a half ago.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: They were like, we will not do this unless you
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: come to the table on the border. And then Democrats
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: come to the table on the border and make this kind.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Of a deal.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: And they're like, how dare you make a deal like this?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: We should never have tied these two things together.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: It's like, you know, we....
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: It's also wild that he's just he's like just so
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: transparently calling the deal a gift to Democrats and a
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: death wish for Republicans. Like he's he's always so open
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: about the politics.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: In part because he knows that's the thing that will
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: upset the base the most. You know what I mean?
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: They're not necessarily upset about migration. If Donald Trump came
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: out in favor of this bill, they'd probably all support it.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: But there they know they like hating on Democrats and
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: they like owning the lips.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Negative partisanship. He knows he gets it.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: And Trump knows that the economy is like slowly but
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: steadily improving. And he now wants to run on immigration.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: And he's going to call Biden the open border guy
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: who lets caravans of hot Chinese soldiers with a bowler
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: or whatever like.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Across the border. They're always hot.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: They're always hot.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: They're always hot.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Remember when, uh, what's his name? Uh, Steve King was like,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: they've got calves the size of cantaloupes.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: In part why he got thrown out of the caucus.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: It's a very fascist.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Kind of thing. Yes, the sexualizing of the, of the,
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: of the young man. The, uh, like, like even how
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Holly was out there being like, so, so I just,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: I do think that like all of these Republicans saying
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: just so brazenly, like this would be good for Democrats.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: That's why we shouldn't do it is very like, you know,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: they may live online and it may play with the base,
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: but like, There are still things that like consistently people
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: say they want. And one of them is people in
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Washington to work together.
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: Totally.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Well, it's now and also it's it's now the essence.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: They've boiled it down to the essence of the Republican platform.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: That's all there is. There is no policy anymore. There
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: is no issue they care about.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: There's no platform.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: There's no platform. Their message is we will do whatever
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: makes the Democrats mad. like owning the libs is the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: only message is the only platform. And people use that. Well,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: they do know they like tough borders and they're tough
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: on immigration. No, clearly not. This is what they want
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: is they just want to piss Democrats.
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: And like Schumer or McConnell were talking about how well
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: they were able to kind of work together on this
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: negotiating process. And, and Holly points to that and says,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: that's the problem. The problem is just the idea that
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: Democrats and Republicans work together. Like, Lankford gets censured before
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: the bill even comes out. So it's just for the
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: act of talking with Democrats, of just like negotiating with
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: the enemy. And like that may work online, that may
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: play to a small subset of Republicans, but that is
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: like anathema to a lot of the normies out there
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: that ultimately do have a say in politics.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: And this is again why I think During the State
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: of the Union, Joe Biden should use that opportunity to
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: talk about how he came all this way to work
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: with Republicans and made a bunch of compromises and wants
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: to do something for the country. And why can't they
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: do it and let everyone see? Because a lot of
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: people are tuning in who don't like the message that
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: we're going to do whatever is bad for Democrats. And
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: they can see who's willing to compromise and who's not.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: And like, I do think that's a stage, too, that's
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: like big enough. I mean, you know, when when this
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: negotiation was first on the table at the end of
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: last year, we were talking about it. And, you know,
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: there was this question of like, how much will Democrats
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: have to be dragged to this kind of a debate?
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: And even Biden's, you know, like, will Biden be saying
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: he's for it because he has to be? And a
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: lot of people looking at this thing, no, if he's
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: going to be negotiating on the border, he shouldn't say
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: I'm doing this because Republicans want it. I'm doing it
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: because I'm here to solve a problem. Well, Republicans have
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: now made that a much more believable message because now we,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's going to be a situation where Joe
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Biden is going to be at the State of the
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: Union begging Republicans to go along with a border security deal.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Can't you imagine him? It's unbelievable. He can do it
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: in a way that's not like, that doesn't sound like
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: an attack either to really land to them. He can
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: have James Lankford stand up. He could say, thank you.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: You and I don't agree on much. You're one of
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the most conservative members of the whole Senate. And I
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: really appreciate it.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: See this ghostly white man from Oklahoma. Looks like Edward
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Cullen's father. And oh, you hear those boos? They don't
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: like you anymore, do you? Because you agreed to do
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: something good.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: You know, you need to work with the Democrats. Yeah,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of opportunity. John's going with the magnanimous version.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: The hackish version is you're like, these guys voted against
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: billions of dollars to combat China, right? Like that's like
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: the Taiwan piece of this. These guys voted against allowing
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: our Afghan allies who fought and died for U.S. service
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: members to become citizens of the United States. Republicans might
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: actually hate that. But like, you know, there's some like,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: there's some other pieces of this bill that are bad politics.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Twilight. If you vote against it. Twilight. Yeah, Twilight. I
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: get it now. Cullen Brothers?
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: Cullen.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: I don't know Twilight.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Famous.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: Cullen.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Name another famous vampire.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you that. I'll tell you that. The dials,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the dial tests, they'll go on the, on the magnanimous one.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: That's what will get them. It won't be the, it
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: won't be the money to, money to Taiwan or. The reason. Oh,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: absolutely not.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: The reason Republicans were hammering this issue and have hammered
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: this issue for years is because, uh, Their position is
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: more popular than the Democratic position. Voters in the country,
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: if you ask people, if you poll people, Republicans have
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: more support on immigration than Democrats. That is the reality
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: we've been living in. That's why they made this gamble.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: That's why they demanded the border security money.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: That's why they picked this fight.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Not just among Republican voters, not just among independent voters
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: with like basically every single demographic group that there is.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Biden's approval is 18% on immigration.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: And it's not because people think he's being too tough.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: No.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: All right, so Trump also used the interview with Bartiromo
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: as an opportunity to toss under the bus the RNC
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: chair who literally changed her name for him. Let's listen.
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: How's Ronna McDaniel doing?
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: I think she did great when she ran Michigan for me.
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: I think she did okay initially in the RNC. I
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: would say right now there'll probably be some changes made.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Do you guys feel like he decided to do that
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: right on the spot? Like he had not... It just
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: was like, you know what? I'm going to do it.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do it.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: He was yes-anding. It was just like improv.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: He's like never.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: He's just like, sure. Sure. I saw some of the people.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Being mad at her.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: I mean.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Remember when Vivek Ramaswamy screamed at her from stage? Tried
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: to get her fired on the spot.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I forgot about that.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Tried to get her to come up and debate him,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I forgot about that. This woman... helped Donald Trump change
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: the rules of the Republican primary so that he could
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: win enough delegates to wrap up the nomination on Super Tuesday.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: And then even before that, he wins New Hampshire and
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: she tries to push Haley out of the race. She's
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: the fucking RNC chair. She's supposed to be neutral. And
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: that is still not enough loyalty for Donald Trump.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: The entire party is bent to his will. They don't
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: say anything when he recruits terrible candidates who lose critical races.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: They do not say anything when he says, you know,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: criticizes their fundraising, even though He is cannibalizing their small
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: dollar fundraisers to fund his PACs and his various legal
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: defense funds. Like he is harming the RNC and he's
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: blaming Ron for it. And it's great, but it's also,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: What, what more do you need? If you're one of
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: these Republican politicians who are like, who know that this
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: is a bad idea to endorse Donald Trump and support
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: him again, who said bad things after the insurrection about
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump, want him to be accountable, all this bullshit.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: And now you're going to endorse him again. No matter
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: what you do, he is going to toss you aside
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: at some point. No matter how much you kiss his ass,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: suck up to him. You can be Tim Scott behind
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: him at the New Hampshire thing. Say, I love Donald Trump.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: He is going to screw you or have the mob
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: try to kill you. I do think it's like... Some
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: way he's going to do it.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: I do think it's like, just deal with it. It's
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: like Scheherazade. You want to tell him a story to
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: stay alive for one more night. Like every person that
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: goes in.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: What's the reference?
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Um.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: A Thousand and One Arabian Nights.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not familiar. I'm familiar, but I'm not familiar.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: That's why I figured, you know, you get this.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Twilight reference.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: I was looking for a vampire.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Interview with a vampire? I can't remember who it was.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Maybe it was Chris Christie or one of them just
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: talks about when you take a job with Trump, somebody
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: pulls you aside and tells you at some point he'll
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: turn on you. You'd have to keep that off for
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: as long as possible. And all these people made their
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: dirty little deal knowing exactly what kind of person he is.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: But also, there's nothing Trump, like when someone like Tim
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Scott kind of supplicates the way that they do, like
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: he doesn't respect it.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: He doesn't respect it.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: And he knows like, oh, this person's weak. I can
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: bat him around for a while. And when they're done,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: I can dispose of them and they won't pose a
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: problem because they're weak.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Look, you get handed a little package.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: It's ticking.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: It's going to blow up in your face at some point. But,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: you know, if you go after him now, it's going
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: to blow up in your face now is probably what
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: they're thinking.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: It's a longer fuse.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: You're buying time.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: It's a longer fuse.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: It's wild.
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: It's wild.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Speaking of Republicans who are on Trump's shit list, Nikki
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Haley is really embracing her new gig as a Rhino
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: establishment chill. She made a surprise appearance on SNL over
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: the weekend in the cold open. Let's listen.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, our next question comes from someone who describes herself
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: as a concerned South Carolina voter.
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: Yes, hello.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: My question is, why won't you.
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: Debate Nikki Haley?
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: Women are terrible with money.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: In fact, a woman I know recently asked me for $ 83.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: 3 million.
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: And you've spent $ 50 million in your own legal fees.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Do you need to borrow some money?
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: Nikki Haley, Joel Osment, we call her.
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: Six cents, remember that one? I see dead people.
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what voters will say if they see you
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: and Joe on the ballot.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: He's so good.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: James Austin Johnson went from like, I look, I don't know,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: I saw him on TikTok and then like the next
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: day he was on SNL. And when you saw him
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: on TikTok, he was like, running around the streets doing
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: this impression, and it was so fucking good.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: It's the best one.
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: It's amazing.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: It's the best one.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: So, you think that'll close the gap for Nikki Haley
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: in South Carolina, that appearance? I think a lot of
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: undecided voters in the South Carolina primary are going to
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: tune in.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: It's pretty wild.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: It's pretty wild that, like, Nikki Haley just goes to SNL,
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: and they just do, like, just a solid chunk of just, like,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: Nikki Haley propaganda on her behalf. It actually, what I
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: thought was, like, man, like, maybe she's weakening, but, like,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Tough if she makes it.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I will say SNL does that for every politician who
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: agrees to be on SNL. Yeah, they're pretty nice to you. Yeah,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: they're pretty nice to you. They let you make fun
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: of your opponents.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: I wasn't even, I was just sort of like, just
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: sort of like noting it. Like, wow, she just came there,
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: did three solid hits on Trump. They did one joke
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: at her expense around slavery and got out.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: She's at the YOLO part of the campaign. This is just,
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: she's just having a good time. She knows it's over.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Might as well say kind of what you want to say.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: She's saying most of what she wants to say, not
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: all of it. Do some things like SNL, which probably
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: won't endear you to the hardcore Republican base.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: But, you know, she's really trying out for her. I'm
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: telling you, she's just she's one appearance away from sitting
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: right at this table.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Hey, honestly. And by the way, and we're not saying no.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: Do you think Nikki Haley hasn't been on this show
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: because we said no?
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: How are the comedic chops? Could she do some lowly?
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: She's, I mean, look.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: She handled it okay.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: She handled it fine. She's a very good politician. She's
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: just a very good politician. She did put in a little, like,
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: kind of spin on why it's okay if she loses
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: South Carolina.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting. That was novel, right?
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: Saying, like, well, you know, oh, like, you know.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Because they asked her, like, the Trump impersonator said, bro,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: you're going to lose your home state.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: You lost New York. It's interesting.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: It's interesting.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Well, that's just because she's sticking around.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: She's sticking around through Super Tuesday.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I love it. So the Republican primary in South Carolina
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: obviously isn't for a few weeks, but the first official
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Democratic primary took place there on Saturday. And in a
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: stunning turn of events, Joe Biden narrowly edged out his
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: opponents with 96.2% of the vote. Marianne Williamson got 2.1%.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: And Dean Phillips pulled in a whopping 1.7%. Only about
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: 4% of the electorate turned out. It's just about 130,000 voters.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: But the Biden campaign and allies like DNC chair Jamie
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Harrison and former Obama campaign manager Jim Messina pointed to
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the results as evidence that the polls are underestimating Joe
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Biden's support. And they were all citing an Emerson poll
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: from early January that only had Biden at 69%.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: The earlier we were edging, too. Edging and, yeah, both
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: of them. I have a few thoughts on this. Okay.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: I want to hear them.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I very much understand the desire to stop the collective
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Democratic freakout over all the polls that have Trump leading Biden,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: which is all the national and state polling averages right now.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Non-individual polls, all the averages, both nationwide and in the
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: swing states, show that Trump is leading. I don't think
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: that the best way to stop that freak out is
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: to cherry pick good polls, unskew bad polls, yell at
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: the media for covering the bad polls and not covering
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: the good polls. And I really don't think that Joe
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Biden overperforming a single month old Emerson poll by 20
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: points is In a primary election against Marianne Williamson and
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Dean Phillips with 4% turnout can tell you anything. significant
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: about anything about Joe Biden's general election strength, about how
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: he'll perform against Trump, against polls, about anything.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Well, that's where we disagree.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're obviously right.
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: Also, yeah.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: I just, I felt this, look, I understand why there's
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: this desire to reassure and like, because panicking doesn't really
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: get us anything.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: And we have to, we have to listen to keeping
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: the 1600s.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: We were there, but, but, but like there's, I think
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: this desire to like, this is assuming what we're heading
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: towards is a close election. Then the turnout among Republicans
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: in an Iowa caucus is not going to tell you much.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: The turnout of Democrats in an unconstested South Carolina race,
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: just not going to tell you much because Anything I
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: tell you has to have a huge error bar on it.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: And this election will be determined inside of the error bar.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: So just a special election is not going to tell
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: you much because it's a different electorate.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: It's panic isn't helpful. It's also not helpful to tell
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: people that every piece of bad news or good news
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: is somehow evidence that Joe Biden is being underestimated yet again.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: It's just like it's fighting a battle that doesn't need
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: to be won. Right.
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Like the battle is not over. whether Joe Biden is
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: properly estimated and whether the polls are correct. We shouldn't
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: be panicked, but we should be worried, and we should
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: use that worry to motivate us to do some work
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: and volunteer. And that's less likely to happen, by the way,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: if you tell everyone, you know what? It's fine. Everyone's hyperventilating.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: The polls are all great. Joe Biden's going to do it.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Because then you might get people who say, okay, I'm
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: just going to stay home and I'm going to be fine.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Use the worry to motivate people. Don't just keep telling
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: everyone everything's fucking fine.
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: I think we need to get the worry into a
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: place where people feel that these polls are reason to
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: believe that Joe Biden could very well lose unless everyone
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: does everything they can. Right. And that's all we need.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Can we just talk about how Marianne Williamson beat Dean Phillips?
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, how does that happen? He went there. He appeared.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Absolutely brutal.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: He also set the bar. He was like, look, if
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden gets 95% in South Carolina, that's enough. That's
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: what Dean Phillips said. And he beat, he said it
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: at 95%, Joe Biden got 96%.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I were the Biden campaign, I would
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: just be pointing the report as the fact that a
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: lot of them were looking at the primary schedule this
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: time around and the changes that have been made. And
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: the fact that you had this weird kind of looming
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: zombie New Hampshire primary happening where some challenger could have
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: gotten a big percentage and made Joe Biden look bad.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: And that didn't happen. That would be my argument about strength.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, like one incumbent president is getting 95 percent
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: of the vote in South Carolina. The other, for all
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: intents and purposes, incumbent president is still is still fighting
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: off a challenger who will do far better than that.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Right. I think the other thing you can take from
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: results is and you got this in New Hampshire, too.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: There's not much of a protest vote against Joe Biden
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: right now. People are not turning out to protest Joe
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Biden and vote against him. You didn't see it in
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: the right ends in New Hampshire. You haven't seen it
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: in South Carolina. We will, of course, see in Michigan
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: where there's now an effort to vote uncommitted for people
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: who are pissed at Joe Biden there. But we're not
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: saying that. What we're seeing is, if anything, you know,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: the turnout in South Carolina was very low, as is
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: expected to be in a primary where there's Joe Biden
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: versus two candidates who are not like serious, serious candidates.
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: But.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it tells you anything else.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Protests are just going to events. Do you guys see
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: that Jamie Harrison, the DNC chair, said that he was
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: open to seating the full New Hampshire slate of delegates?
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: I did.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Totally walked it out. So the context for our listeners,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: like Biden told the DNC to change the order of
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: the primary process to make South Carolina first. But New
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Hampshire has a law that says, actually, we have to
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: go first. So they went first, which means under the
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: DNC rules, that's supposed to result in you losing half
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: of your delegates to the convention. But since Biden won,
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I guess Clyburn, uh, Congressman Clyburn and Jamie Harrison, the
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: DNC chair just decided like no harm, no foul. Let's
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: just seed them all and try to mend this rift
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: with New Hampshire.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: I know. I'm not sure what to think about that. Like, okay, great.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: I could tell if it was on the fly or
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: if it was planned.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I guess they just want everyone. I think it felt
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: a little on the fly, didn't it?
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Cause, cause, uh, Clyburn floated it and then Harrison goes, well,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: when the boss speaks, which is great.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's sort of one of those things where, um,
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: It's better to kiss ass than eat shit kind of
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: a situation.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: I like that. And in terms of party chairs who
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: have to suddenly turn on a dime when the boss
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: says something, Jamie Harrison in a much better position. Could
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: be much worse.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, could be much worse.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: He was like, the boss speaks, we've got to sit
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: in your hamster. Ron McDaniels is like, the boss speaks,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I'm out. And I'll see you later. Good point, boss.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: And one more thing, if you want some poll sanity,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: some real informed analysis, Dan hosts a show now here
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: on Crooked Media called Polar Coaster. It's really good. That
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: you can get if you sign up as a friend
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: of the pod. You just go to crooked.com slash friends
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: to sign up. And I think he's got a great
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: episode this week with Democratic pollster Celinda Lake. So obviously
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: Biden's also dealing with the political fallout from a Middle
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: East conflict that seems to keep getting bigger and deadlier.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: The president ordered missile strikes against Iran-backed militias in retaliation
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: for a drone attack that killed three American service members
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: and wounded dozens of others. The White House says there
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: will be more strikes to come. Republican hawks are mad
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: that Biden didn't just attack Iran, though Trump hasn't said
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: anything beyond his initial response to the drone attack, which
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: he blamed on Biden being weak and said that he
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: has us, quote, hurtling toward World War Three. Tommy, what
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: are your thoughts on first the strikes and then on
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: how Trump is responding to the growing conflict in the
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Middle East?
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, on the strikes themselves, I was relieved to
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: hear that Biden didn't even consider hitting targets within Iran itself.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: That would have been a crazy escalation. It sounds like
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: they hit like IRGC linked targets in Iraq and Syria.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: They might be considering more strikes in the future. They
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: keep hinting at them, but we don't know. But the
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: broader point is that it's clear that the core driver
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: in this uptick in violence in Iraq, Syria, Yemen is
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: the ongoing war in Gaza. Until we get a ceasefire
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: in Gaza... there will not be an end to these
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: attacks on U.S. personnel or on ships in the Red Sea.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: So that's what I would love to see happen and
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: them focus on. The Trump piece of this is very interesting, though,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: because his comments or lack of comments since October 7th,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: the Hamas attack, I think tell you a lot about
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: the Republican Party and its politics. Because remember, Trump's initial
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: response to the Hamas attack was to criticize Netanyahu, attack
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: him for not being prepared, and then he praised Hezbollah
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: for being smart. And then he said, Netanyahu let us
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: down in 2020 when we assassinated this Iranian general in
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Qasem Soleimani and they didn't back us or something, which
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: I don't even, it was not at all true. So
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: clearly someone in Trump's camp said that was a disaster.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: They mopped it up and they said, just shut the
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: fuck up for a little while. And so since then,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: his message has been Biden is weak. None of this
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: would have happened if I was president. That is his
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: reaction to everything. And so I think the reason for
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: that is Trump knows his party is split on these issues.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Like you have your hardcore evangelical base that will say,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: do everything possible to defend Israel to the hilts. Then
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: you have some sort of like residual neocons, the Lindsey
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Grahams and the Tom Cottons. But then you have Tucker
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Carlson and this flock of Republicans that are like anti-war.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: They're trying to figure out why are we even overseas?
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Why do you have troops in Jordan or Syria or
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Iraq anymore? Good question, by the way. And so Trump
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: needs all of them. And he's doing this dance where
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: he's just trying to say nothing to appease everyone. And
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it seems like it's kind of working.
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, the Trump term sort of like it was,
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: we used to call it like the neocon paleocon like thing.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: And like Trump going after Bush in those early 2016
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: debates were one of the ways in which he kind of,
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: I think, signaled that he was willing to take on
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: kind of like Republican chivalrous and like kind of push
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: back against the neocons. And I mean, remember there was that,
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: that fucking awful Maureen Dowd column, but like Donald Trump.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: The dove.
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Hillary the Hawk, Donald the Dove.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that Trump realized that, okay, what is the,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: what are the most unpopular aspects of the Republican party
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: to most voters back in the, in the 2008 era? Warmongers,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: helping the rich, and the, on cultural stuff, pretty weird
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: and out there, right? And abortion's the, obviously the best
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: example now after Dobbs. But, you know, some of the
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis stuff got a little too.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: People like Mike Pence.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Got a little too weird. Yeah, people like Mike Pence, right?
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: And so in this election now, he's trying to back
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: off from... He's taking credit for Dobbs. This just mirrors
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: what he's doing here. He's trying to keep everyone in
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: the party happy. He's taking credit for Dobbs, taking credit
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: for the Supreme Court, but he's like, I don't know
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: if I want to go endorse the six-week ban, right?
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: And in 2016, on the economic stuff, remember he was
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: talking about closing the carried interest loophole and the hedge
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: fund guys and all that bullshit? And now, and since
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: he ran against Hillary, he's been calling Hillary, Biden, these
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: people warmongers, right? He wants to call Democrats warmongers. So
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: he's trying to, and I think the key for Democrats
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: is to make sure that he does not run away
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: from his own record on all of these issues. Because
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: he was, as you said, he was not like Donald
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: the Duff.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, look, on Israel, he gave Bibi Netanyahu
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: everything he wanted. He moved the embassy to Jerusalem. He
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: recognized Israeli sovereignty under the Golan Heights. They negotiated all
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: the Abraham Accord agreements, worked for these bilateral normalization deals
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: between Gulf autocrats in Israel. And in some of those cases,
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: like the U.S. would just give giant concessions to the
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: country that wasn't Israel. Like the UAE got a huge
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: arms sales deal. For example, right. So Trump, if he
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: were president right now, would probably be giving Netanyahu even
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: more support, pushing far less hard for a ceasefire agreement.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: would care less overtly about civilian casualties. I don't say
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: any of that to suggest that I'm happy with Joe
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Biden's handling of what's happening in Gaza. I want to
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: see us loudly criticizing Netanyahu, the conduct of the IDF
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: in this war, and pushing publicly for a ceasefire and
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: not just doing it behind the scenes. But I still
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: think Trump would be a lot worse. If he were
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: president right now.
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, he loves dictators and he loves dictators because
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: and he they he thinks that they provide order in
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: their countries and he doesn't care what they do to
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: their own citizens in terms of Bibi Netanyahu. It's the
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Palestinians like he doesn't give a shit how people are
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: treated around the world. But he's chummy with these dictators
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: because he likes authoritarianism and he thinks it provides order
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: like that's that that tells you all you need to
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: know about Trump. And so I do think that like
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: making sure that people know that and knowing how dangerous
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: he could be on the world stage. And then also
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: on the economic stuff, you know, he wants to give
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: another fucking huge tax cut to rich people into corporations.
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, like his, you know, once, once he got
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: into office, I think it was actually a policy nightmare,
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: but on, on economics, but actually a political boon that
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump wasn't the populace he said he was going
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: to be. Like if Donald Trump had actually been governed
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: the way he sound talked about governing the we wouldn't
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: have been in a much worse political situation. It mattered
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: that he tried to overturn the Affordable Care Act. It
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: mattered that his biggest economic achievement is a massive tax
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: cut for the wealthy.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: It will matter in 2024. If he married up culture
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: war with an expansion of the welfare state, like a
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: lot of populists do, that would have been incredibly powerful.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: It's almost like a.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Mix of nationalism and socialism.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Put those two things together. The end of the day,
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: the challenge for Biden is he has actual responsibility right now.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: He's not just like truthing from Mar-a-Lago like Trump is.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: And honestly, and that's why Trump It was so tough
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: for him in 2020 in that race because Trump had
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: the responsibility because he was president. He loves being a challenger.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: He loves just fucking throwing rocks from the sidelines.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: And I do think, too, it's like you just like
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: step back from this and like, you know, we've just
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: been through like an endless news cycle of every media
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: organization in the country losing jobs. And we have like
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: misinformation spreading rampantly online. The Republican Party no longer believes
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: it is necessary to have a platform. There was a
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: time when you actually had to articulate information. a competing
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: vision for what you would do as president. You couldn't
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: just say everything he does is bad and if our
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: president thing would be better. The market is up because
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: I will be president. The market is down because I'm
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: not president. Like these things- Chinese market also down. Also down.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: These things would be, these things wouldn't- You'd be left
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: out of the room.
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: And now there's no, because like the media is consumed
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: in such a fractured way and there are fewer kind
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: of gates on like what is acceptable, what is treated
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: as legitimate, what is, what reaches people. these Republicans feel
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: like they are safe to make these ridiculous, ridiculous arguments.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: Biden needs the economy to keep improving. He's the highlight,
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: the choice between him and Trump and the extremism of
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: the Republican Party. But they have to broker a ceasefire
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: agreement in Gaza. And they have to publicly lean on
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Netanyahu to include conditioning future military aid to Israel and
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: have a carrot and stick approach, not just a hug
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: BB approach. And I will be mad about this.
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: Until it happens.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: And then one more thing he needs to do is
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: just before every speech, just do some jumping jacks, push-ups maybe,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: just show everyone he's in a.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: That's all you're going to say.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: And one thing is he's got to make sure these
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: juries he's put in place convict. Joe Biden worked so
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: hard to get all those jurors right there, and now
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: they've got to fucking bring the hammer down.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, we should politicize DOJ.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: I wish we fucking would.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Honestly, he's doing a terrible job.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: His son's gotten indicted a couple times now.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: Cori Bush can't fall in love.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Cori Bush is under investigation.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: How pissed would you be? Can you guys stop indicting
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: my relatives? This is not why I installed you.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: By the way, there's a special counsel out there that
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: the Biden team is preparing for this week.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: To do the classified documents thing.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: His own classified documents case. Remember that? That's coming back.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: Remember the good old days when JFK appointed his brother?
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: What happened to that?
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Well, the brother's son, now we're dealing with that.
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, I guess that's right.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so anyway, you asked Chris Murphy about, not any
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: of that, but about the Middle East and pizza. Sure.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: And we're going to listen to the rest of that
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: right after the break.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: Senator, before we let you go, I did want to
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: ask you about a couple other pieces of the proposal. Specifically,
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: how urgent is the Ukraine funding right now? What happens
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: if it doesn't pass?
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Ukraine will lose the war. And it's possible that
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: the tide could start to turn relatively quickly. Right now,
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: on many days, Ukraine is firing one quarter the artillery
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: shells that Russia is on the other side of the
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: line of contact. used to be that when Russia sent
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: missiles to Ukrainian cities, Ukraine could shoot almost all of
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: them down because they had enough interceptors. Now, on some days,
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: they shoot only half of those missiles down. We are
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: on the precipice of a disaster. This isn't theoretical any longer. And,
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to be hyperbolic, but man,
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: like history does sometimes repeat itself. And if Putin gets
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: his hands on Ukraine and sort of does so because
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: the West and the United States stuck with an ally
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: for like two seconds, he will consider moving on NATO.
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: And then that is U.S. troops in the fight. So
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: we do have a direct personal interest as a nation
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: in making sure that Ukraine has what it needs. And
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: we're months away from the tide turning in this war,
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: potentially in a pretty disastrous direction.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: One other piece of this is the Israel funding. Senator
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders has come out against additional aid for Israel
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: without any conditions. Would you like to see conditions as
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: part of a package like this, if it were possible?
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: And do you see a political shift on that issue,
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: given how dire the situation is and how the conflict
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: is escalating in the region?
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: Listen, the number of civilian casualties in Gaza is unacceptable.
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: It ultimately does not accrue to the benefit of Israel
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: for this many civilians to perish and for Hamas to
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: essentially have a permanent organizing platform. I've never been terribly
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: afraid of applying basic human rights and international law conditions
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: to the aid we send Israel or any other nation.
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: We're obviously going to potentially have amendment votes on this
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: bill in the Senate, and one of them may be
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: a pretty straightforward bill to say, For all the countries
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: receiving aid in this bill, you've got to comply and
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: there's got to be a certification of compliance for basic
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: human rights laws. And to me, that shouldn't be anything
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: any of our allies should be afraid of.
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: Does the standalone Israel proposal that Republicans are pursuing in
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: the House complicate this already complicated path? Or do you
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: think that's sort of a feint?
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: I don't think it complicates the path in the Senate,
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: because in the Senate, we still do have a bunch
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: of Republicans who want to fund Ukraine and who know
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: that the Israel-only bill in the House is really about
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: one thing, avoiding funding Ukraine. So I think Democrats and Republicans,
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: for the most part, in the Senate understand that if
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: we're going to do funding for Israel, we have to
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: do it at the same time as Ukraine.
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: This deal is being put forward in the context of
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: a war between Israel and Hamas, the deadly attack on U.S. troops,
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: violence escalating in the region. President Biden has talked about
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: wanting to avoid a broader regional conflict. But you also
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: have Secretary of Defense saying that what we've seen is
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: only the start of the U.S.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Response.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: When does a broader conflict in the region become a
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: broader regional conflict? And what kind of military authorization do
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: you believe is not only needed, but also one that
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: you would support?
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I asked this question of the administration about
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: a week ago. Senator Kaine, along with two of our
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: Republican colleagues, sent a request to the administration to give
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: us their justification, in particular for the attacks inside Yemen.
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: I can't figure out what the existing legal authorization is
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: for ongoing attacks against the Houthis inside Yemen. I also
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: think they will likely need an authorization if these attacks
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: against Iranian proxies continue. Listen, I certainly would be open
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: to a limited authorization of force to make sure that
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: the message is sent all throughout the region that if
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: you attack U.S. forces, there is a consequence. I have
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: no desire for this to expand into a direct confrontation
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: with Iran. And I think at some point, we have
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: to step back and understand that our unprotected force structure
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: in the region, frankly, makes our troops there targets for low-cost,
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: provocative confrontations with the United States. When Joe Biden was
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: sworn into office, I made a very immediate recommendation that
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: we dramatically draw down our forces in the region, in
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: part because I worry that it would make these kinds
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: of conflicts very easy for, um, our relatively unorganized non-state
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: actor adversaries, uh, to prompt. Um, and I think we're
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: seeing that reality. Listen, we have to respond, but we
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: don't need to be spread as thin as, and as
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: unprotected in the region as we are today. And I
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: hope that, um, this is, um, you know, a reason
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: for us to reconsider our, our force presence throughout the region.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: I'm going to switch gears now. And, uh, as hard
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: as a person can, I owe you an apology. And
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: here's what I owe you an apology about.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Bring it on.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: A few years ago, I made some glib comments about
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: Connecticut pizza.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: You did.
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: You did.
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: And I ended up spending a portion of the pandemic
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: in Connecticut. And I want to tell you, I am sorry.
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: Connecticut makes some of the best pizza in the United
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: States of America. It is in the conversation. For number one, though,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: but I would, I as a person from New York
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: would still, I think, ultimately choose New York, but I
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: wanted you to know that you were right, I was wrong,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: and I apologize.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: You know, really, no matter what happens to this comprehensive
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: border in Ukraine bill that I have bled and sweat
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: over the last four months, it really doesn't matter anymore
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: because this apology... It's really, you know, it's just worth it.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: So what's the number one pizza for you in Connecticut? Pepe's.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: I love Pepe's. Come on. So good.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: I'm a modern guy, but they're all good.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: Sing the gospel, man. Let people know.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: I'm doing my part.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: Come to Connecticut and see what John's talking about.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: All right. Senator Chris Murphy, thank you so much for
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: your time.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: Thanks, man.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Chris Murphy for joining. One note before we go.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Vote Save America is back with a brand new political
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: action finder that curates volunteer opportunities specifically for you. Doesn't
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: that sound nice? It curates opportunities for you.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: I love having things curated.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: I like a curated experience, too.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just check a few boxes and Vote Save America
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: will pinpoint the volunteer opportunities that will make the biggest
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: impact from your state all the way to the White House.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: More than 3,000 volunteers have already used our action finder tool.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Are you calling it an action finder tool? I like that.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: It's like a good cocktail menu. You know what I mean?
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: Just action finder.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: It rolls off the tongue. So don't walk. Run to votesaveamerica.com.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you can actually do that. Votesaveamerica.com.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Get started now. All right. Anyone have anything else? How
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: about those Grammys? How about those Grammys?
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I don't watch a lot of award shows. I really
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: like the Grammys because they're like, hey, what if instead
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: of self-indulgent speeches and awards, we make this like a
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: cool one-of-a-kind concert experience?
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Well, I, I really enjoyed that.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: I liked, we, so we got, we got Joni Mitchell
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: doing both sides now.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: We've got, we got a new song from Billy Joel.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: I missed that.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: And then you had Tracy Chapman, uh, doing a fast
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: car with that gentleman, Luke Holmes. Now I like, I
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: have to say like, I, when, when the Luke Holmes
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: version of fast car was like going around, I, it
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: was like, I was like, I don't know. What are
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: we doing here exactly?
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: What does that Hetzel mean?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: It means like- You can't see it, but there's- Have
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: you ever seen the first, I can't, I may get
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: my history slightly wrong, but there was a moment where
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: Tracy Chapman performs Fast.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Car, maybe for the first time or maybe- At Wembley Stadium.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: At Wembley Stadium. She subbed in for Stevie Wonder, I believe.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: With like 10 minutes notice. No notice.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: And she sings this song and like fast, it just-
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: a stadium is like captivated by this incredible song.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Imagine, you're expecting Stevie Wonder and this person you don't
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: know comes out and it takes like two minutes to
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: get to the chorus and then the chorus hits and
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh my God, this woman is incredible. You
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: can see it.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: It's such a good song.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: And there's something so magical about that and it is
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: her song and there was something about seeing it, like,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know, in this sort of like, this country guy,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: kind of like, and then people being like, oh, I
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: love that Luke Combs song.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's a cover?
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: I had no idea.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: Made me a little.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what all the kids do these days.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: But that's the story of every cover, right? So there was,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: I think, there was sort of a justifiable controversy and
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: discussion around the country music charts, which are famously biased
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: against women and people of color. Like, Jason Isbell talks
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: about this all the time. His wife, Amanda Shire, is
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: a famous country star. She's incredibly talented. And they're just, like,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: furious that they can never both chart at the same time.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: But that wasn't Luke Combs' fault, right? Like he just
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: loved the song and he covered it and it got
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: the song to number one on the country charts. And
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: I think because that happened, it created this conversation about
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: the song and it led to Tracy Chapman performing it
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: for the first time in years and years and years.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: And the way that he.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Talked about her was so wonderful and like really gave
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: her her due and made it about her.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: I got that.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: It got me back a little bit because I feel like,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: I felt like her embracing of the fact that he
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: is now performing the song made it, made me more
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: comfortable with it. But a part of it is also
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: just like, I don't know, like we saw both sides
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: now and you see fast car and it's a little
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: bit unfair because like, you know, those are two of
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: the greatest songs of like the last 50 years. And
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: then you just sort of like, God damn it.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Like where, like, where's that?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: Or more of that.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: I think the, the, the Luke Combs straight to Chapman
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: performance was cool because the way he hung back and
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: was like, this is not about me. Even his voice,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: he like kind of hung back. And then when they
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: started applauding, he was like pointing her. I thought that was, Nice.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: But also it just hearing that song performed reminds you
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: that there are songs and there's famous songs and there's
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: like anthems, you know what I mean? And that song
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: is iconic in like five notes, you know, you don't
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: even hear her voice and you know what it is
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: and you know, you love this song and the next
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: five minutes are going to be good.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: It's also just sort of, there's a, there's like, there's
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: politician good, there's TV good, there's movie good. And then
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: there's like rockstar good, like rockstar charisma and, Nothing quite
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: like it.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Anyway, Grammys, good.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: Grammys are great.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: It was a great show. Good for them.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: All right, everyone.
• 1:05:17
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• 1:05:20
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