Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Jeff King: The Storm Raging Against Religious Freedom Is Here

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Jeff King: The Storm Raging Against Religious Freedom Is Here · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hey, friends, family and Christ, very important topic today.
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  We'll be speaking with Jeff King.
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  As one of the world's leading experts on religious freedom and the President of International
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  Christian concern, ICC, the website is persecution.org.
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  He's traveled to over 70 countries, and he's been interviewed or quoted by most major media.
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  And he loves to teach the secrets of spiritual growth derived from the hidden world of the
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  martyrs and the persecuted.
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  He's an author of several books, Islam Uncensored, last words of the martyrs, and the one that
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  just came out.
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  I think earlier this year, the whisper, it's actually devotional, lessons of renewal,
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  whispered from the prisons of the persecuted.
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  You get that on amazon.com or you can go to persecution.org.
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  Jeff King, thanks for your time today.
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  Good to see you again, brother.
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  David, always great to be with you.
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  All right.
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  So let's talk several topics today.
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  Let's start with censorship, because that is something that a lot of Americans can
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  relate to, but we don't realize what's been happening to Christians and believers in
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  other countries, and we just take for granted our constitution and the religious freedom
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  of the First Amendment here.
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  We don't have any idea what's going on.
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  So let's start with that and just talk about the fact that believers all around the
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  world are having an hate speech, they're being condemned and persecuted.
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  So speak to that for us for a minute.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, I think most people are aware, you know, with persecution with hostile regimes
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  or fundamentalist Islamic regimes, you know, old communist regimes, they're going
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  to suppress Christianity.
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  They're going to attempt to strangle it and hide it, but the big story is like, look,
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  all those methods that those regimes use, they're starting to be used in the West, and
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  that is a crazy thing.
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  So we're more protected here in the States, but it's also happening here in the States,
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  but just to give you a couple cases, there's a woman in the UK who's been arrested numerous
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  times, including for silently praying near an abortion clinic, pastor, these are again,
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  these are just very scratching a service, but a pastor in Canada arrested numerous times
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  for, you know, sharing the gospel for preaching outside in Canada.
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  Good friend of mine, Paiva Versana, and she's an MP, a member of parliament in Finland
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  and chief prosecutor kind of had the justice department went after her because she had a
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  private tweet about the church, the national church there, and their support for homosexuality
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  and the regime went after her.
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  And it doesn't matter that she was exonerated numerous times, it doesn't matter that the
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  prosecutor kept going after it, it's torture, and the process is the punishment.
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  But anyways, again, the big lesson is like, look, the same things that regimes overseas
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  use and the same mentality exists here in the West, and if you had to boil it down,
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  you'd say it's this, it's like, you know, overseas, I'll say, we have religious freedom.
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  Now, what that means is you can go into your apartment and believe whatever you want,
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  don't share with anybody, don't share materials, don't gather together.
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  That's really just freedom.
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  Right.
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  Yeah, but if you can't exercise it in the public square, and that's how you boil it down
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  and see what's going on in the West.
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  Well, it's interesting, and that's been happening elsewhere, but it's really been gradual
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  what we've seen in America now, and propaganda, and really lies about what Christians believe
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  and how intolerant we are and what the Bible teaches.
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  And there's more hostility we're seeing, and I didn't expect to see this.
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  I guess in my lifetime where Christians are openly censored or discriminated against
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  right here in America, but what is your concern moving forward, Jeff, because I know one
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  of the things you do at ICC is raise awareness about persecuted believers just around the world.
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  You've been doing this for years, and I think international Christian concern began in 1995.
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  But do you have concerns about losing our freedoms or clamping down in religious freedoms
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  here in America?
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  What's your take on that?
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  Yeah, David, I've written newsletters for 20 years, and there are several big ones
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  I wrote saying, you know, there's a storm coming.
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  And what I'd say now is that storm is here, it's light rains, but the storm has landed.
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  And again, all that dynamic I mentioned where people of a different political stripe or
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  non-religious people say it's quite all right and favorable to suppress Christians, and
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  we don't like the message, so we're going to make them disappear.
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  That's what you do overseas.
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  You make them disappear from media, and then you attack them, and then you use the organs
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  of state to go after them.
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  So that's absolutely happening, and what you mentioned before, it's really a propaganda
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  war, and it's a softening up of the populace, and I'm not, I don't have my tinfoil
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  hat on.
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  I'm just saying that's the effect of it, of all the media where Christians are portrayed
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  in a very evil manner.
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  That's been going on and increasingly so over the last 20 years, and that has an effect.
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  And so then what you see is the populace is softened up, and they're more ignorant
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  about religious freedom and why it's so important, and then they're willing to dismantle it.
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  So now you're seeing cases where the state is saying you can't do foster care, you have
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  divergent views.
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  You can't serve on a jury because your views are, your Christian views and religion is
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  dangerous, and that's, that was Missouri, and then there's Vermont and Massachusetts and
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  then et cetera.
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  You know, you can go on and on with these cases, but yeah, so the storm is here.
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  We're still in the days of light rain, but it's happening.
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  So I got a press release from you guys, several of them, I'm on your mailing list, of course,
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  and one of them I got back several weeks ago, I love the way it starts out.
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  It says what do countries like Ireland, Scotland, and Finland have in common with China,
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  Iran, and North Korea, and the fact is it's censorship of free speech, and we can add
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  America to that too, just not just Ireland and Scotland, but big tech platforms, the public
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  square, more and more, man we're seeing it everywhere, but it's like we think of China
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  and Iran and North Korea, the worst of censorship and the persecutors of Christians.
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  But man, we better wake up, what was that, what did you send out, how did you title that,
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  the storm is here, or what was the title of your, yeah, I always said like, you know, there's
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  a hurricane off shore, there's a religious freedom hurricane off shore.
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  It's coming, it's in now it's here.
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  And we've got to learn how to be aware of this, friends, but that speak to a moment before
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  we move on to the next topic, that shouldn't stop us from speaking.
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  The message is the same, God's Word is true, the gospel is still the power of God, it's
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  still saves, and standing up for biblical Christianity and doctrines that aren't popular
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  today, whether it's life in the womb, marriage between one man, one woman going down the
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  list, the Bible and the gospel, speak to the fact that regardless of censorship or persecution,
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  which is, we're warned about in scripture all over the place, that we need to keep speaking
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  and we need to still stand up and do what we're called to do.
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  Speak to that for a moment, please.
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  Well, I like what you said, but I'll try to add a little to it, but that's the excellent.
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  And then look, I'd say nothing we're facing has not been faced by the church before.
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  These are minor, minor things in, historically, with Christianity and so, you know, the culture
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  has changed, but if anything, here's the, here's the effect of persecution, you know, those
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  who don't like wearing the Jersey, wearing the Lord's Jersey or his uniform tend to get
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  out of the army when the going gets hot, and that's a very positive thing.
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  So if assuming, you know, the listener is like, you know, I'm, no, I'm in.
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  I'm in with the Lord and he told me we're supposed to be persecuted, we're supposed to be hated,
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  that's been the norm. So I'd say, look, the problem is not you, it's not that you're a bigot,
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  it's not that you're not nice enough. The problem is that we represent him and he is a giant stop sign
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  to the world. And so that means of restraint wants to be, the public wants to tear down, or at least
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  a certain portion of the public, our job is to be bold and to be on fire and to rescue the world,
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  all those around us were dead and dying and we have the message. And so if anything,
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  this should wake us up and say, I'm going to double down and not being a big debater, not be a
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  hater, but to go out in love, but to be firm. And also you've got, listen, if we want to be
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  ruled by the ungodly, then we shouldn't be in politics. You have to be involved, show up to the
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  school board meetings, run for dog catcher, get in the game. Yeah. And let's continue to talk about
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  politics because someone's morality will be legislated and Christians will either be protected
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  or persecuted. So religious freedom. So going back several months now and we're jumping around
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  a little bit, but I've got some more press releases from you guys. And this one you said, I'm quoting
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  you, while many would see religious freedom as a non issue, I would remind them that is the
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  cornerstone of democracy and perhaps the most potent force for freedom, democracy and women's
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  rights that exists. That's because it encompasses so many of the rights we all value such as freedom
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  of assembly, thought, speech, conscience, and more. And finally, Jeff, you said our founders
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  and trying religious freedom as the cornerstone of our rights. And we've got to continue to fight
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  this battle because it's heating up here in America. So with that, in that press release,
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  the headline was with Biden withdrawing from the presidential race hope for a renaissance in
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  religious freedom rises. Why would that be? So let's talk about the difference of administrations
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  and how they either stand up for Christians and persecuted minorities around the world or how
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  it's really not an important it's not an issue to them. Go ahead, Jeff. Well, I can tell you
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  after doing this for 20 years and when we go knocking on doors on Capitol Hill, everyone opens
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  the door, everyone smiles at you as polite, but there's only typically, it's typically the Republicans
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  that engage on it, not entirely. A lot of good Jewish senators and congressmen and congresswomen
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  over the years got involved because they know about religious freedom, they know about persecution.
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  But in general, it tends to be the Republicans that get involved. Now under Trump, he assembled a
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  dream team on religious freedom and that started with the vice president down to the head of the
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  state department and then even very talented, sharp people like Brownback within the state department
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  leading the charge. And we really became the beacon once again around the world for freedom,
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  for religious freedom. And that's kind of our, that's kind of the banner we carry, that's the
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  torch we carry and the world still looks to us for that. But it was really rekindled. And since then,
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  in fact, there's now kind of almost a world congress going on on religious freedom on an annual
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  basis and we're, you know, we're trying to pass the torch to other countries in the set. Go,
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  go be a gadfly, go speak up in your own country. I love also what you said in that newsletter
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  and then we'll take a brief pause before we go on to our next topic, talk about Iran and the
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  Ayatollahs. But you mentioned Mike Pompeo, I just saw him on a program. What was it? I think he
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  was on with Eric Stacklebeck or one of the programs on one of the shows that I watch. But Mike Pompeo
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  was on over. He was over in Israel talking about this. And you say that he and others oversaw what
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  many consider to be the golden age for religious freedom. And that was during the Trump administration
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  their effectiveness in promoting your religious freedom around the world was unmatched in decades
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  if ever. So that's quoting you, Jeff King, international Christian concern persecution.org
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  is the website persecution.org. We'll be right back on World View Matters.
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• 14:07
  Friends, thanks to you, our Rumble channel is growing. But if you have not yet liked us and
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  followed us on Rumble, please do. And you can also download the Freedom Project Media app on your
• 14:23
  iPhone. That's free. I won't charge you for that. So bonus. Okay. So thanks for getting us out
• 14:29
  there on Rumble and sharing the podcast back to Jeff King, one of the world's leading experts on
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  religious freedom with international Christian concern, ICC. And so let's talk about Iran. Talk
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  about what one of the most recent press releases that came out. You said with the recent assassination
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  of Ismail, say his last name. Hania. Okay. The simmering conflict between Israel and Iran has reached
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  a boiling point. And then you go on and talk about this and this all out war. So Jeff, just share
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  what's on your heart and what you want to get across to our viewers. Yeah. Well, for those who don't
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  know, look, I would say the Saudis are the problem with radical Islam around much of the world,
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  but in Iran, they're the cause of most of the trouble in the Middle East. And they are really
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  devoted and focused on the destruction of Israel. They've created a number of they call it
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  a proxy army, but it's just an army they're supporting and they formed and are leading.
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  And they encircled, they encircled Israel. And so you have Hamas, you have Hezbollah,
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  you have the hoodies. And so obviously with what happened in October last year, Israel went in
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  and destroyed Hamas in Gaza. But then and then they kind of expected, I ran to go to war at the
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  same time. They expected Hezbollah, the hoodies, they expected everything to to to for major war
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  to be lit. And it didn't happen. And Iran stood down. They said, and we look, we move some
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  carriers there and said, we really don't want to do anything. And they said, I think we agree with
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  you. But so here's the dynamic though. I mean, their armies are being destroyed. So Hamas is
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  Hezbollah. If you're tracking what's happened in the last week, they've killed all the top
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  leadership, except for the very top commander. It's unbelievable. And they're dismantling that
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  organization. And so but with that assassination that happened a few weeks ago, everyone was wondering
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  what's going to happen. And and a lot of times people are thinking, let's go in and kick some
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  tail in Iran. And that's a natural response because these guys are deadly. They're wretched people.
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  But the only thing is that if war comes to Iran, that might be the only thing that saves the
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  Ayatollahs. So the Ayatollahs have have worn out for welcome in their own country. They're hanging
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  on by a thread. The mosques are empty. Christianity has exploded. But if they get attacked,
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  first of all, they're no match for Israel or Israel with us, too. They're absolutely no match.
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  And they know that. So they'll talk again, a good game. But that might be their only hope because
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  then they can wave the flag. They can wave the national flag. They can wave security. And people
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  will will rally around the flag. So that's where I said, you know, it's like war might be their last
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  hope. It's kind of a secret story. But if our Iran, the church is just exploding. It's the most
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  amazing thing. You're talking about the underground church in Iran. The underground church.
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  Yeah. More about that because I think we don't obviously it's not making the news, right? When
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  Christianity's growing, when the church is thriving in certain countries or restricted nations,
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  we don't hear about it here. Share a little bit more about that. It's encouraging. Yeah. I haven't
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  seen anything on NBC or CBS or anything else. But it's such an amazing story in the place I start
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  with is the Bible because you look at prophecies and says in the in the end days that Iran would turn
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  to the Lord. And so everyone thought this was such a tragedy. It's always this way with persecution
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  when the Ayatollahs came in. And they trust me. They were wretched. They pillaged the church,
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  raped, murdered. They just murdered the way through the pastors, but the Iranian church,
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  you know, all the people who aren't serious about God leave. And then you just have a praying
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  remnant. And they say, the Lord, where can we go? You have the words of eternal life.
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  Now, and then they cling to him and they really hold on to him. And that's a church that gets
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  dangerous. That's what we're lacking here in the States. So when everything is swept away,
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  when all your security is swept away, your wealth and everything else, and all you've got is him,
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  then he can, he goes on the march and his power starts to flow. And Iran is a very dark place,
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  not just for Christians, for the Muslims too. And, you know, the populist, the large Muslim
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  populist, at first when the Ayatollahs came in, and they were like, they're so proud, we're going
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  to bring Islam to the world. And then it was pretty messy. And they said, well, we're kind of
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  working out the kinks, but we're going to get there. And then they said, you know what? The
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  kink is the leadership. We need to change leadership. Well, you go down another five or ten years
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  and what they said was the problem is Islam. And then the place is so dark. It has so many problems.
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  And they would look at the Christians in the dark and they saw light. And they, they could smell
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  the aroma of the Lord. And so everyone would gather around, believe me or since they tell me what
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  you have, how do I find this God? That's the story of Iran. I know years ago, this was, it was kind
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  of a gathering where we're bringing Iranian leaders out and getting them together in a safe place
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  and training and sending them back in. And it's so funny because one of the brothers there,
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  a pastor told me, you know, sometimes I'll go to conferences and the Westerners will say,
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  here's a plan for, you know, doing evangelism. Here's how you do it. And he's like, we don't do it
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  like that. It always says, I go into a party. And I say, Hey, I'm a Christian. If you'd like to talk
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  about it, I'll be over here in the corner. And he said, then I get mobbed for the next five hours.
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  And I'm just talking about Christianity. And then many people then start wanting to follow Jesus.
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  They hear who he is. They hear the scriptures and their hearts light on fire. He said, that's
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  how we do evangelism. And that's the dynamic that exists in Iran. Wow. And I'm sure you could,
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  we don't have enough time, but China, there's the way here, let me ask you this. There's an underground
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  church. Yeah. And then there's a, it's not, what is it, government, uh, indoors.
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  Oh, yeah. They're, they're above ground. They're visible. But there's a lot of limitations on that.
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  Explain the dynamic there briefly, please. Yeah. Well, there is the above ground church.
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  And it's controlled by the government. Uh, it has some freedom. But at the same time, if,
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  if you are too effective and if you are not, uh, uh, respectful enough and you don't lift up the
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  party enough, you're, you're going to be thrown out. So that's the above ground church. But it's
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  almost the same story with the Ayatollas, you know, the Communists came in and, uh, the church
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  wasn't that big, uh, when they started, but they oppressed and they imprisoned, treated,
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  they just strangled the church again. So everyone who's not serious leaves and those who stay,
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  hang on and, and the, the populace goes through very dark days and they see light in the believers,
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  because the believers finally stopped trying to live off their own resources. That's our problem.
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  That's our main problems and our sins. They were living off our own resources. And so when we stop
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  and cling and the river of heaven begins to flow through us to the dead dying around us,
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  the church lights on fire. And no one really knows how many believers there are. I'm going to guess
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  that it's, it's 150 million. It might be 200 million in China now. It's just the most
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  incredible story. And they're sending missionaries to the world. Wow. Um, I'll never forget I was at
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  a church in California, Southern California, 2003. And, uh, guest speaker came in and said churches
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  in Asia are sending missionaries to, they're flying into LAX, Los Angeles International Airport.
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  And their mission was to evangelize the decadent West. I'll never forget that in those words.
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  I'm going, wow, because we've been so like, you know, we're such a Christian nation and
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  looking at morality here. Look at what we experts pornography and other things. But anyway,
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  I digress. I want to go over to your podcast, Jeff, for the last couple of minutes here.
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  Faith under fire. How do people hear it? Uh, the podcast. Yeah. You can find faith under fire
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  and all the usual channels where you listen to podcasts, but it's, it's focused really on either
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  defending or deepening the faith. And, you know, often not, maybe not a big surprise. I'm,
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  I'm very intent on understanding and discovering and broadcasting the message of what is the Lord
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  trying to do with our suffering. You know, and I, I, the Lord told me early on when I came to
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  persecution minister that I was to learn the lessons of the martyrs of the persecutors to
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  shout them to the world and, and I spent a long time trying to figure out what he was talking about.
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  But they're trans, these lessons are transformative because that's, that's why these churches
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  explode when there's a gun to their head, when they're being killed and raped. So these lessons
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  are absolutely applicable to us here in the West and the decadent West, where we are asleep in
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  the light, but there's life to be found. And that's, that's what I'm trying to do in, in most of my
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  writing. Awesome. Um, persecution.org. And you can find ICC on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube,
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  Instagram. One more question, uh, Jeff, and it's about one of the podcasts. I wrote an article.
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  I don't remember when about a year or more ago on the drip cafe, Jamie Sanchez, and you had him
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  as a guest a couple of weeks ago on the podcast. Um, he was standing. I don't know what he, he stood
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  up for, for against the LGBTQ or four marriage. And it, where was this? Was it Oregon or color,
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  it was Colorado, right? Yeah, I think it's, I think it's, uh, it's Colorado. I'm trying to think
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  which city it is Denver. Oh, Denver. Yeah, Denver. Yeah. And he had a ministry for the homeless. And
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  he, and he created, yeah, and he created jobs for him. And then the communists and the, uh, crazy
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  wing of the LGBTQ, uh, people went after him. So again, it's not the, it's not the, the LGBT crowd,
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  yeah, Q crowd. It's the crazy part of the crowd, just like any, anywhere. So they just constant
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  demonstrations, name calling harassment, never stops. And of course, the mayor was like, you
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  should, we don't want you here. You should get out of here instead of with the harassment and
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  dealing with the persecutor. That's just normal. Wow. That's Denver. I mean, certain cities
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  you'd have a different result. But, hey, elections have consequences. Depends on who the mayor is,
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  who the governor is. And, um, anyway, friends, that's, that's my little plug here because it's
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  going to affect religious freedom. It's going to affect how we are. By the way, I think the,
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  the preachers of tolerance are the most intolerant of someone like that. He's just running a business
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  and he's helping the homeless. That's what blew my mind. Uh, he's really doing a good thing for
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  the community. And because he has, he has a biblical worldview. And, uh, anyway, it's just really,
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  it shouldn't be surprising, but it's going to be happening more and more. Jeff, a minute and a half
• 25:57
  your final thoughts as we wrap up with your brother. Well, two things you already touched on
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  David, but people need to be bold. And these are the days that we're just beginning to separate,
• 26:08
  to say, uh, who's in the church? Are you bold? Are, is, is your treasure your main thing? Is
• 26:15
  your career advanced me or main thing or is the Lord? What's your real treasure? And that's what,
• 26:19
  that's what persecution does that it's core. And we're just again, life stages. I'd say,
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  be courageous. Nothing we're facing has not been faced before. And the Lord is our protector. He
• 26:30
  is our fortress. And the dead and dying are all around us. Don't give up the mission. That's the
• 26:36
  mission is what's the most important thing in life. And then secondly, there's something the
• 26:41
  Lord's trying to do something with your suffering. And we've learned this from the persecuted
• 26:45
  church. It's, it's not a destination. It's supposed to be a door of transformation you walk
• 26:50
  through. Um, learn more about that. He's trying to do something with you to get you where you
• 26:55
  can't get to on your own. Amen, brother. Amen. God does something with suffering. I mean, look
• 27:01
  it, he gets glory somehow. He gets glory out of it. And, uh, you know, we get refined. And
• 27:08
  anyway, by life. Yeah. We stop living up around resources. We finally find life. Praise God.
• 27:13
  Jeff King International Christian concern brother. Thanks for all the work you do. Thanks for
• 27:17
  your time. Remember, friends, to go to Amazon to check out the book. They're the devotional called
• 27:21
  the whisper from Jeff King. Brother, we'll talk again soon. Lord willing. So good to be with you, David.
• 27:28
  Thank you so much. All right. God bless you, friends. And as always, keep speaking the truth about
• 27:33
  things that matter.