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Alex Dugan of Culture Wars · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: From 21 to major festival stages of culture war as become a name synonymous with evolution, and Alex is right at the heart of it.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's time to peel back some of those glares and get into the mind of the man behind the mic.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mike.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mic.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if your summer has been like my summer has.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Back in April, I made a promise to myself more music, more episodes about music.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I even made it a personal goal to get my ass out of the house to go start seeing live shows again.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a long time.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I uh sometimes, if the choice is to listen to something on streaming or on vinyl or get my ass out of the house, sometimes I choose to sit around the house, even to my own fault.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: But it has been a fantastic summer so far, a summer filled full of music, and I am super excited to introduce my next guest, Alex Dugan.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's the lead singer of the band Culture Wars.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: How the heck are you?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all right, you know, just uh living living life, trying to finish the album and uh getting ready for shows.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so how's your summer been so far?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's been cool.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just got back uh from Cardiff.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was seeing the uh first night of Oasis, so I I mean life will be worse.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, dude, you kill me.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So Oasis, like honestly, Oasis is part of the spark to fire that made me make this decision where I was just like, I cannot believe they're coming back.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's long overdue.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I'm a huge Oasis fan.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite Oasis song?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well when we play live, we uh our intro, like walk out of cigarettes and alcohol, so that's kind of stuck to me a lot.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um slide away, that kind of stuff.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I like all the kind of punchers, you know, but it was uh but no, it was it was good.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was uh very cool to see it in person.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've only seen Noel in person, so it was good to see it, see the real thing.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how do you feel about Noel and Liam's solo stuff?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I actually was a huge fan of Liam's more recent solo stuff, personally.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I you know, I I definitely it's it's interesting because there's certain songs that Noel did on his own stuff where I went, ooh, that's that I mean he's he said this himself, but I was like, that's that's an Oasis record.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just yeah, this is this is where they are right now, you know, they're not talking or whatever.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, and and Liam's stuff's been been cool too, and obviously he's been able to step up and do Neb worth himself and kind of prove, you know, I don't necessarily, you know I it's it to me that what I especially from that documentary he did, he just kind of pulled himself up by his bootstraps and figured out how to do it on his own.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think regardless of like particular taste of one or the other or them both together, whatever, it's like I think it's really like pretty rare for someone in his position to be like, no, I'm gonna swing this out until until it works, kind of thing.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what he did.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, man.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad to hear that somebody else made that documentary, their pandemic watch, because it definitely was mine.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was good.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was very good.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I love watching stuff like that, so yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna get in the weeds about culture wars here in just a moment, but you know, talking a little bit about Oasis, who are some of your songwriting influences?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And is Oasis one of them or one of many?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think Oasis for sure is one of them.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think uh I mean I I grew up and I, you know, I everybody's different in the band, but I I grew up kind of listening to the Beatles a lot, obviously.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So did so did they.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's hard to not uh my my dad only kind of allowed two CDs in the car when he drove me to school every day, and it was the Beatles number one hits and Jimi Hendrix Are You Experience, so that's that's all I listened to for like the majority of my life.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I remember having uh uh some Nirvana stuff around when I was a kid.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think my mom bought that of all things, but but really it was always like Beatles, and then when I got into like high school, it became more stones, and then uh and then it's kind of done this as a you know, kind of mixed in as a kid.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think like now as a grown-up, I'm just a kid.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think now, like on this record, at least just stylistically, I think um obviously Oasis is is something we look to.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that uh, you know, U2's all that you can't leave behind, I think is a very specific record that I at least reference when we're working on.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, with the band, everybody has a different thing.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Dave or Dylan's reference may be different from mine.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think one that we would all kind of say, like, all right, yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh two would be like Third Eye Blind's debut record.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's a lot of in-between.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of, I mean, we we're all from Texas.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up listening to a lot of country as well.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, um so there's there's a lot of that kind of just creeps in there on accident, you know?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I'm from Houston, so we go to the rodeo every year and stuff like that.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that that'll kind of creep in.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I you know, I mean, i other songwriters, I'm sure there's a lot of things like I mean, I I listen we listen well, all of us, we listen to all sorts of different stuff, so I mean it could be we're we're also not shy to like the kind of pop stuff, and you know, it's it's a craft, so yeah.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a commonality with musicians, and it's funny because this has come up in several episodes recently.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I no longer play anymore myself, but I was in the business for 15 years, and you know, in the age and era of streaming, genre matters less as much as mood does.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like people want to feel a certain way to where they don't care about genre lines, where 10-15 years ago, industry reps would have said, okay, pick a lane, stay in that lane, don't blur those lanes at all, where now it's like musicians can be who they truly are, influenced from by everything from like jazz to pop music to you know singer-songwriter stuff and the the Brit Pop stuff.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's so fantastic.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: But uh my my childhood is very similar to yours.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I remember growing up, my dad would sit on the floor of his bedroom with an acoustic guitar and play Here, There, and Everywhere by the Beatles almost endlessly.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that got ingrained into my head, and I had to have a deep love of the Beatles because of such.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk a little bit about culture wars and the origin story.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: How did the project come together and how long have you guys been a band?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I can only say it, I guess, from my perspective, because everyone kind of found it in different ways.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I always wanted to have a band and and find guys to be in a band with.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was something I, you know, spent a long time trying to figure out.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a lot like dating, you know, you go you have a couple one-night stands, you go through a couple girlfriends, you get cheated on, you know, it all it all it all plays out.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but yeah, I mean, I think the the first step to that being real was just meeting David, and him and I have been in different bands with each other.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've known each other for like 11 years and we've played together in different bands for that long, and we're kind of like the old married couple of the band.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm I'm admittedly the mother, he's the father, but you know, uh you know, so I mean that him and I have been, you know, farting around trying to do that, and then eventually we kind of in a previous band or no, it wasn't in a previous band, it was in this band.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we kind of uh met uh Dylan and he fit in like a glove and that kind of became it, but it was really before we had put any music out or anything.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: We were just trying to find other people and um Caleb was when we were doing the first EP, Caleb was an intern at the studio where we were making demos.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, and then he became like our producer slash songwriting partner slash guitar player um through that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we were actually recording tech, uh Josh was also an intern at a different studio in Son at Sonic Ranch in El Paso.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when it came time to like needing another guitar player, we're like, well, we all like Josh and he's moving to Austin, so why don't we just ask him?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and we we know we we know we like him, you know, especially when you're on the road with people.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: You don't like them, it's it's not gonna last very long, you know.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um so it's just very like kind of fall in your lap kind of stuff, but um, but yeah.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the name Culture Wars, it's pretty evocative.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um is there a deeper meaning behind the band name and how does it shape your lyrical and sonic direction?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when we first came up with it, it wasn't like some you know prophetic kind of whatever.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was just kind of that sounds cool.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I Googled it and I was like, oh, that was like a book in the 80s about Reagan.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, alright, whatever.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not as not as long as there's not another band, it's fine.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, and then later we kind of, you know, thought about it, I guess, because obviously people ask the question because it's a real name, you know what I mean?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I think we're just all from very different like walks of life and stuff, and we're like we're from different upbringings, we're into different music and stuff like that.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we certainly don't agree on everything, but like we do agree on the music and what we're doing.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of our way of like bridging different cultures and coming together, and so it kind of the the band itself is kind of the uh the culture war or how we would like the the actual culture war to go, where everyone just kind of brings their ideas together and comes to a common goal instead of this, you know, incessant just kind of horse shitting around.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: But uh sorry, I don't know if I can curse anything or not.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, no, please.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I use curse words as punctuation marks.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So go ahead and okay, I was just making sure because with radio, I I go, oops, you know.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, you know, I'll I'll get a a jab if we're doing I'm doing a radio thing.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: But uh but yeah, so yeah, that's kind of where we're at in terms of like it affecting the music.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I just don't think about it when it comes to the music.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think it just kind of happens naturally on its own in certain songs, but it's certainly not a like we're called culture wars, so we should say something.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I don't give a shit.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I you know, it's uh I I get that too.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, like, you know, you guys should have you know, everyone wants you to be everyone wants you to speak to them, and that's great.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: But when everyone wants you to like speak to their political views and you have you have to agree with them or forget it.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, like look, I I'm not I I'm not like a I'm not heavy one way or the other, to be completely honest.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm the same way.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be if you had to put it, it'd probably be more like a libertarian thing or something, not that I like go that way or whatever, but you know, I'm very like moderate in a lot of ways.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I also realize to be in the middle, you have to kind of listen to people say things, even if you heavily disagree with them.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I've got a temper myself.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have a hard time listening to people say things, and I'm just like, oh my god, like why, you know, but it you have that's how you reach people, that's how you like connect.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and so, you know, sometimes I always say, just let it get let them get it out of their system, just let them say it, and then you go, right?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: What if we did this?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let them think it's there, I mean, who cares?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's all everyone wins together.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's that you know, it's when everyone gets into this ego, I have to be right thing, you're screwed.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was gonna ask you that specifically, if there's ever been ever been anything where um people have challenged you on the name, and you've kind of answered that.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Usually I have a very strict, I don't talk politics, I don't talk religion on my show for very similar reasons to yourself.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: As a matter of fact, while I was listening to you, I pulled up a note that I saved on my phone, and it's it's this thing that I read to myself, and it says, if you're intelligent enough to steer clear of far right or far left political tribalism, it's not because you're weak, indecisive, or lukewarm.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's because you understand nuance, you're likely well read enough to understand subtext and recognize that blindly worshiping politics or politicians and making them their your entire identity is no different than joining a cult.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's certainly a lot easier to uh get done what you need to get done when everyone's so pissed off at each other that they're not looking at you.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think uh that's kind of unfortunately the tailspin we're in, but maybe maybe, maybe not, we'll see.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: But um I have I have great hopes uh for the human race.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, or sitting around listening to Peter Thiel talk about transhumanism, you know.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh whatever.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: The guy invented a taxi app.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, get off your high horse.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is just you know, we're we're in another, we're in an alternate universe where people just you know listen to people carry on.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like now, they're listening to me carry on, so here we go.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you know, as long as I keep talking.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, kid.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: So typical ways is currently sitting at five million streams and it hurts crack the top 20 on alt radio.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Did you anticipate that wave of momentum when you started the band and hasn't it all felt surreal?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, we always I I this is my my new theory on it, and not theory, just kind of my own my new feeling on it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I always have anticip I've always wanted there to be some moment where you get the phone call and it's like guys, they said yes, and you're like and you freeze friend and the whole thing's over.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Which never happens.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: It it never fucking happens.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um it's not how it is.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: We I I always whenever we get like some something, it's always a yeah, but right, like you're gonna get the tour, but you know, this, this, and this, or you know, you're gonna get the tour, but the promoter in this country is blocking you, so you have a week off in the middle.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're yeah that happened.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's like it's like, yeah, you're gonna get it, but you're this, or like, you know, so by the time we get to these things, you've gone through so many like death by a thousand cuts or whatever.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you've gone through so many things that you're like, well, yeah, that happened because you know, like with radio, like we got a you know, 20, like that's awesome, and I I love and appreciate all the support.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: We've been trying to get on the radio for like six years, you know.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, and we've been working it, and I've been going to all those events, and uh, you know, they have like the promo like the radio programmer events where you can kind of like perform and what all that kind of stuff and and and showcase and things, and even when we weren't showcasing, I'd just go to hang out and just like get to know everybody, even when they wouldn't play us.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would just show up and just have drinks with people and not ask for anything because that never goes anywhere.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just trying to get to know people and then eventually maybe something will come up and maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, you know.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's fine.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, with Ray, I've been working that for a long time, and you know, I appreciate all the support, but it's at the same time, it's like, you know, man, I've been pounding that pavement for you know for like five, six years.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel that the momentum for where the industry has moved has changed in such a way that's made it harder or made it easier as streaming has evolved and social media has evolved?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: The the lifespan of like a platform, right?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like a CD or a tape or streaming or whatever, usually is around a decade.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we're at the end point of what would be considered to be sp Spotify, but really streaming's thing.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think push has come to shove and there has to be an answer.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And these labels are shedding staff and shedding people and shedding expenses, but I would think that they're shaping up for whatever's next.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that there's an answer um yet, but in the end of the day, Spotify has become kind of a loss leader in a way.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of uh promotion, right?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do I think that there's a way that you know the platform could be used better to convert?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, when we put a show on sale, you know, like uh how well are they really alerting these people?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And especially now with the advent of like, and I'm just being honest, like with the advent of like Marquee and like Spotify Marquee, like you know, without paying them to give your music to your own followers, if I didn't do anything, maybe five, maybe nine percent on a good day of our active audience would actually get served our new song.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's a problem, right?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you're really on your own to develop your own Instagram, your own uh TikTok has a similar problem, but uh your own mailing list that's still the driver, you know, for for everything.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I call it hand-to-hand combat, you know, going to shows, meeting people like when we do opening gigs, we are very particular about getting access to have like our QR code on the screen before and after we go on so that if people actually like us, we can capture that and they can, you know, um pick up on us because otherwise, you know, you can't just have some big banner anymore, you know.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's helpful, but it's you know, when you're a band like us touring around with a 20-foot banner or whatever, you know, it's not really feasible.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, you just have to keep pivoting, you know, you just have to keep punching and moving, but you know, no one's getting rid of their email address anytime soon.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: They may decide they don't like Instagram, they may decide they don't like TikTok, they may start listening on the new platform that's not Spotify.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: But they ain't changing their email address usually, you know, to a point.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that can kind of be your your foolproof, your uh you know unless uh everyone decides they don't like Gmail anymore, but we'll find out.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's been kind of a a resurgence in physical media with younger generations getting into collecting both vinyl and even CDs are starting to slowly come back, which is perplexing to me.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know a few uh record store owners myself that said that kids are starting to come in and buy CDs again.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Are you seeing a resurgence in people expressing interest in having phys physical media from your band?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I you get the vinyl question every once in a while, but it's usually the like the superfans, you know.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when we come with the when we come with the album, you know, you can do all sorts of vinyls or box sets or whatever for the people who are really, you know, heavily invested, which we do have uh more a more than usual uh chunk of, you know, as Spotify would call it, super fans, as well as um as you know, just people that engage with us on a daily basis.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: But um But yeah, I mean I think vinyl, I've not had anyone ask me for a CD.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'd probably ask them if they even had a CD player, but even even with vinyl, they just want something big that they can put like on their dresser.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that half these people are even playing it off of vinyl.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a very good point.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very good point.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know for me, physical media used to be kind of a ritualistic exercise.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's taking the shrink wrap off, opening it up, looking at the cover, the liner notes, and all of that.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, I've got kids and I haven't really tried to correlate with them what their experience is.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I know when my daughter sits in her room and she's listening to the cure, I on vinyl, I feel fucking great about it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you probably did something right there.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk about the new single.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about lies.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in a time where rock music leans synthetic or ironic, you're leaning into sincerity and actual instrumentation.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Was that a conscious choice?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, for sure.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, that's a conscious decision that Caleb and I talked about three years ago or something.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And in the process of that happening, you kind of have seen it start to Uh lift its hand like in pop music and other things, which is great because it paves the way, you know, like Olivia Rodrigo, for example, right?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like she essentially made like a pop rock record or whatever, you know.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you we've seen that people want to I I think as as we're moving forward, people are when AI can do whatever it's gonna do, not well, but that's fine.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm sure it's copying my voice now and getting ready to impersonate me at some point.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I think when it's when anyone can do it and when it's all readily available, where you back into is like you said, like uh authentic expressions from people telling real stories.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there's always gonna be you know things in between, left, right, and center, but that seems to be where things are starting to move, and you know, hopefully uh we can be a part of that train.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: We'll just have to see as we continue to grow, you know.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: So Lies started off as a synth-driven track and then evolved into a full band anthem.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how did the transition in production reflect your personal or emotional growth, especially with the lyric content?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we just um the way we made the record essentially was like we we do uh a vocal and a guitar or a vocal and a piano, like two elements.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's not good like that, we don't move forward.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how we did the majority of the album, with Miley being like the exception to that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um that just was kind of random.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but yeah, with that being said, you know, we were doing the album, we kind of that that allowed us to then like all right, we know we have a good song on its own, so now we can just record drums-bass guitar.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to do all these bells and whistles, it could just be a band, and and that's what enabled us to do the organic uh shtick, lack of a better phrase.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, with Lies in that same thought, you know, I kind of brought up like, you know, the song itself on its own is great.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: I if we did it the way we're doing everything else, I'm sure it would be just as good.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, eventually everyone kind of agreed, and we just you know, the song was already there, we just re-demoed it and re-recorded it and put it together, and that was it.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um it went from like, you know, maybe that song fades away to oh now this is like the next like lead single because now we've put it in this new realm.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and the song changed.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, the the the underlying chords of the song changed.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: We we like dropped, we we changed it around, we we kind of made it work for like what the album sounds like.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I changed some lyrics in the song simply because the guys were like, We like your lyrics, that line needs to change.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: I went, okay.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Are you sure?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, yeah, that's always bothered us.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I went, okay, great.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I changed it.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it worked, you know, and it's and it's it's I'm sure it's but I'm sure everyone would agree it's better now.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but yeah, I mean that was really the transition.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it was just a testament to us like finding our own sound and then being able to like apply it to something.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you view whenever you finish a song or prep a song for release?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know it it's kind of cheesy to imply that there's this notion of this is gonna be the one, this is gonna be the one, but do you do you ever kind of take a step back and think of a song in the sense of this could be a major inflection point for the band once this is dropped and shared with the public?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you uh I have uh was it delusions of grandeur or whatever, or illusions of grander, whichever one it is, uh that plays into it that I don't know which one it is.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, I always you know Dave's always like we'll see.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always like, this is gonna be great.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't really speak.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I think the one thing that we knew, at least with typical ways, and and to for the most part, lies as well, but typical ways more so because we just weren't expecting it.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a song that almost didn't make the album altogether.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: We almost didn't release it at all.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, our managers would just not fucking shut up about it.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, guys, you're making me hate this more every time you bring it up.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um we finally just agreed to play it live, and then it went over well, and we were playing with banners, which is like, you know, alternative, but like on pop leaning when that's weird.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then we'll probably do well with in front of the cult fans because we did some big Canada with them, and that was less surprising because it's the cult, but it went over well there too, but like more so than everything else.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, okay, but maybe that's just the cult.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then we did Laney, which is very pop, and um not necessarily live, live, it's not as pop as as it sounds on the record.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually that's I I I live, it's even better to me, but anyway, that's that's just a thing for them.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: But uh we did with Laney where the music is very pop, and we're in Asia, and it was like Singapore indoor stadium, and just everyone went nuts, and I was like, that's bizarre.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and then we did it every single night, and it was like a big, you know, so it's just one of those things where like the crowd informed you, hey, uh this is working, and we went, okay, well, I guess we're releasing this now.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: But then you're like, well, I hope the recording uh maybe it's just that the song's really loud and people like the energy of it, and the recording won't translate, but luckily that it worked the same way.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a big inflection point, and we certainly weren't thinking about it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: With Lies, I've always felt like that song just works.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um but this new version of it's obviously I think you know a lot better.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so hopefully, uh, you know, that thing did four million streams on its own, and it wasn't a very good version of it.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully it does twice that, and we'll be fucking we'll be made in the shade, you know.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So as far as lyrical content goes, you wrote lies during a different chapter of your life.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: How does it feel to perform a song that's so tied to heartbreak now that you're in a new chapter?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I um less so any other song.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: That song specifically is very, very hard for me to remove myself from it, even when I do it now.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's just really hard to just like disassociate and not like feel something every time we do it, especially now.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was like a even like recently we did Mexico with with Wallows, and those shows were great, but you know, something kind of like re-triggered my thought about all that and doing that song and the the reason I wrote it and all that kind of stuff.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: It just kind of all there was just some stuff going on that kind of clicked it in, and I kind of just again emotionally just kind of like went full full on on it, and uh to the point where I got to typical ways and I had maybe sang a little too hard on the on the lives previously, and uh my voice was uh not happy with me at the end of it, but uh I mean, not that anyone ever notices, but I was like, okay, maybe maybe we always do, man.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a fellow singer here.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: We always know.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: We always know.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: But especially a song like typical ways, that's just that's so high up that you know you get a little bit of forgiveness, but uh but you know, yeah, it's just it's it's still it still kind of clicks for me, which is is funny that it's it's stayed that way.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, me as long as it clicks for other people, I it's you know it really, it really isn't about me, you know.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So considering this upcoming record, it's kind of been cited as a full circle moment.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: So in totality, once everything's released and it's all fully fleshed out, what can fans expect sonically and thematically, and what do you hope they take away from it?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: We always say like organic, you know, it's like this is a band record of five guys who are friends with each other and happen to make this music and stuff, and I think you know, we've spent a long time trying to figure out what we're doing, and then we've finally figured it out.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, the the theme of the record is just the band that that's it's the guys, you know.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've always been very strong uh opinionated that this whole thing only works with the sum of the parts kind of deal.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um whether I like it or not, depending on how what my attitude is that you know, everybody's got their um, you know, even when everybody's being a pain in the ass to me or whatever, you know, it's everyone has their own opinion, but it's really greater in the sum of its parts.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the the record and the theme of it is is the band and and it's uh you know it's it's a real record of real people playing their instruments.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know that sounds bizarre, but it's what it is, you know.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever get that post-release fatigue, like where you're just like, okay, this thing is finally out.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ready to move on, I'm ready to start ripping through some new material.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I know that's common.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of times by the time the final album or final set of songs have released, you're already internally readily ready to move on to the next batch.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get that way?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh kind of two different vibes of it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: A kind of no from like a promotional standpoint, because my my brain is like just you know, just go all the time, like, you know, never give up.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was, you know, we we I I love this job.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love what we do.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that we're in the position that we're in.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're very, very, very lucky.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we've got we've caught some real breaks lately that have been game changers.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know if we'd be out the other end maybe without them.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: I have no I who knows.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um in terms of like getting sick of the music or whatever, I you know, look, I I consider it a badge of honor to be sick of the music that we're doing because A, it means you're doing something right, but B, we rehearse so much that we don't feel that we're ready for a show until we hate the fucking song, pretty much.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's just how we are.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: We burn it into the ground.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like my my true test of am I ready?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: is can I look at Instagram while I'm singing in rehearsal, completely zone out.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even paying attention to any song.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I have to like essentially wake up in order to realize where I am, and I can sing all I can sing the whole set without even thinking about it, scrolling through Instagram, looking at random stuff.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: If I can do that, then I'm ready.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you get on stage and you got all these people in front of you, you know, especially on these larger like you know, arena and stadium tours, you got all these people that want to wave and interact and like whatever.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if it if anything's gonna throw you off, like it, you know, you have to just recall, know exactly where you are at any given point.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because you want it, like you're there for them.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you want to like you want to interact with these people, you want to like engage, you want to be like, hey, what's up?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm here in you know Manila for the first or second time in my life.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's go, kind of thing.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's uh it's a celebration in a way, but you don't want to blow it in front of 55,000 people because you got too excited, you know.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, so yeah, we have to rehearse it to the point of being sick of it.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I tell you what, all my years of playing in bands, it never failed that there would be a loud minority group of the band, like two or three guys that wanted to add new music to every single show, and you're like, dude, we gotta play, we gotta play what the people know first until we start just salt and peppering in a bunch of new shit.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: No matter how good it is, I nine times out of ten, no one cares, unless it's typical ways, and okay.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, then then no one cares.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you surprise yourself sometimes.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: But but yeah, I mean, most of the time if you're doing your own show, if you're opening for somebody, all of it's new and whatever.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, but you're also, and this is kind of not artsy to say, when you're opening for someone, you are an advertisement.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the guys disagree with me on this sometimes, but I'm always like, we are going out there and we are advertising our music.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Someone hears a song that they like, and then they go home and they can't find it, tough finding them later.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like you want them to be like, I love that song, go save it and go listen to it five times, and then when you come back, they they come back, right?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's a balance to it, but you know, you can always just slip in one or the other.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: What has been your most eye-opening or awe-struck shocking moment that you've experienced during this journey with culture wars?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um my favorite show is still opening for Laney at the Philippine Arena in Manila.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was just, you know, we had been doing some big shows with them, like, you know, Singapore Indorseum, it's like 20,000 people, things like that.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but this is 55,000 people.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it was sold out.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: They were all there way before we even went on.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we went on 6:30.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Those people were, it was absolutely filled to the brim.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody, no one was waiting around at like five o'clock or something.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: And like walking in there, it was like walking into the Rum Coliseum, just it's the largest indoor stadium.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like there's a Guinness Book of Worlds record thing for it.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um indoor stadium, right?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but it's 55,000 people, you know, and it was just nuts.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and kudos to Laney for cultivating that because they have built something very specific uh over there that I mean, only only major, major, major acts are able to replicate.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like the only other people that are playing that Philippine arena are like Bruno Mars and Dua Leap or whatever.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we went right and and did uh Maroon 5 in Manila, and Maroon 5 is a massive band that they're playing the the 20,000 seat arena for whatever reason, they have built just this amazing thing in in the Philippines, and they love them.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: So these the this this crowd was just like ready for it as if it it felt like it was our show to a point.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's how like ready for it they were.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just nuts, and like just on an accident, Caleb was like, Let me see the lights, like bring the lights up, because he wanted them to turn the house lights on.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: And our guy was like, I don't have the button for that, and couldn't tell him.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And before that happened, the whole crowd, everyone pulled out their phones and their lights and like lit it up with their iPhones.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and we were like, I was just like, Oh, that was an accident, but holy shit.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was a happy one.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a great, it looked great.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but it was just what it was just the whole thing was just so surreal, and and you know, you always want to do well on those shows.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, I was every you're always a little nervous, but it happened to be a a show where we just nailed it and it felt right, and I think I hope that you know Manila will forever be like a very specific part of this band.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I mean they that's that that's the spot, man.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's great, they go crazy.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome, man.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that the kid that was being driven to school by his dad listening to Beatles' greatest hits would believe you if you told them that story?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, man.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've got video of me as like a two-year-old in diapers singing uh you know, achy breaky heart on karaoke and stuff.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think my parents were kind of expecting it.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've been trying to do some version of this for a long time.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's again, it's one of those things where it's like, well, yeah, of course it's like that worked out, you know.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um because that's just what it is.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: My computer's about to die.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to get my wife to bring my charger.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, I love it.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm going to uh ask you my wrap-up question that I ask everybody that does the show.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that is, given all of your experience that you've had so far and your perspectives in life, um, what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think listening is a very important trait uh and attribute, um, even when you don't want to.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I listen to plenty of things I don't want to listen to, including music.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, and I think uh patience and understanding.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh people are a little too worked up, and they're we're all being worked up intentionally.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think everyone needs to just be aware of that.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: That it's the divisiveness is a device.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we have a lot more in common than we think.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, everybody's got a crazy uncle, but everybody deserves to be respected and loved, and and I in that you can actually get people to agree with you and br and bring them in to your side.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: So uh kill them with kindness in in a way is as tough as it may be.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um because we're not gonna even external of politics, just dealing with people on a day-to-day basis, until you just hear people out and let them hear you out, you're just gonna keep hitting a wall.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to get where you want to get, you're gonna have to there's gonna be a little give and take to all of it.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the uh the great the great uh mark of negotiation is is making making someone think that it's their idea, even though you've kind of talked them into it.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: So just there's there's there's power in in in listening, and there's power in in letting people think it's their idea as long as you get it accomplished.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Love that, man.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love that.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you let my audience know where they can find culture wars online?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can find us everywhere that you could possibly think of.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Spotify, Apple, Amazon, YouTube, uh if you're in Asia, we're on now, we're now on all the specific uh you know ones in Korea and Japan and China and everywhere.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: We are we are literally all over the place.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can if you're on it, we're there.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Brand new single lies out right now.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Check it out wherever you can.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Alex, I've really enjoyed this conversation, my friend.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, appreciate it.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: The world is a much better place with you in it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing the show, my friend.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, I want to thank my friend Alex from the band Culture Wars for doing the podcast today.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you follow Culture Wars at Culture Wars on all social media platforms.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Get over to Spotify, listen to their new single out right now.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to all of their music.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is a good time.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: And while you are being generous with the follows and the listens and the subscribes, make sure you are following Pot on the Mike on all social media platforms.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Give me a subscription to YouTube.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have been trying to offer my YouTube subs as much as possible.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit me, www.potonic.com, or shoot me a DM, or shoot me an email.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's chat.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: This has been caught on the mic with Michael Clark.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you've enjoyed this one.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.