Latest / Ridiculous History / CLASSIC: That Time Kansas Imprisoned Women For Having STDs

Transcript

CLASSIC: That Time Kansas Imprisoned Women For Having STDs · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous Historians, thank you for joining us in this
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: week's classic episode. We're gonna be honest. We take a
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: lot of license with the word ridiculous. Sometimes evil things
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: are ridiculous as well, and this episode is about a
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: very ridiculously evil policy in our good state of Kansas.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: That's true. Why might you ask, did Kansas decide to
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: imprison women for having sexually transmitted diseases? How long did
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: this last? And why have so few people heard about
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: this in the modern day? Let's roll it.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in. We would like to begin
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: today's show with an acknowledgment of something that may have
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: be fuddled some of you, our fellow ridiculous historians.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Ben, Hey, I'm no What are you talking about, Ben?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I'm talking Noel about the fact that we double Oregoned.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: On our quest to do one episode for every state
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: in the US.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: It's almost like we haven't been really thinking this through.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: It's almost as if we were winging that one.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: It's true. Well, we thought both.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Stories regarding Oregon were interesting and important, so much so
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: that we didn't really decide which one was our official
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Oregon episode.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: So we have two. Should we address right up front
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: our double mispronunciation of the Malleury Wildlife Preservation, Casey, apparently
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: you really peed the bed on that one. My man.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm unclear on this because the comment, Okay, so
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: there's the way they say it there, which is the
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: American way of saying it, which is quote unquote wrong
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: if you're going by the French standard. I don't know
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: if people are saying my French pronunciation was also.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't know what. No, I don't think
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: they're saying that at all. Yeah, and I'm giving you
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: a hard time, Casey.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: So but yes bye. By sort of saying that's how
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: French people would say it, then you guys started saying
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: it that way, and of course that's never how it
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: works out when an American city is named for some other.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: So what's what's the real way, What's what's the real
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Oregonian way?
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: It's like mal here or something. I think the h
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: is silent, right, I don't know, you know, I withdraw
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: from this discussion entirely. Those folks can pronounce it, how
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: are they.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Like okay, Well, just to verify we did find it, Noel,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: do you want to give it a shot?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hang on here, mal here, that's doesn't that isn't
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: that is that? Yeah, mal here.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just it's just a different way of approaching it.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: And as we know, with proper nouns, pronunciation can be
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: you know, very much on a case by case basis,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: and obey the rules of grammar and phonetics in absolutely
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: no shape fashion reform.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: See fourvo says it's mallur ma Oregon see three different ways,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: three different ways. So I don't know not to get
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: a b in our bonnet right up at the top
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: of the show. Don't let it get to you. I'm
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: not gonna let it get to you. But this, this
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: episode today is about a state that's not Oregon. That's
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: sort of the whole point of this way right right right.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Also, we would be criminally remiss if we didn't do
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite things to do on this show,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Friends and Neighbors. Super producer Casey Pegram I just love
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: the sound cute.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I love it too, But I've noticed we've drifted into
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: a thing where we will Casey will be on mic
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: and it's not necessarily Casey on the case, so it
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to be. It's a brave new world. It's
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: a brave new world.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: It's just like English is a living language that continually evolves.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: This show and the country in which we record it
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: are continually evolving.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Well, hey, I see where you're going.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because today our journey takes us to Kansas in
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, and we want to warn everybody this
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: is not a super happy, fun, feel good.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Story now, No, it's really not. Really. Nothing good comes
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: of this other than the fact that it stopped happening eventually, right,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: That is the happy ending. The it in question, Ben, The.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: It in questionable is the imprisonment of thousands of innocent people. Well,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: they were innocent by what we would consider criminal standards today,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: but morally they were considered quite guilty.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: But not just people, Ben, women specifically and poor women.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: So what's the scoop?
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: So the nineteen twenties in the US sees the influx
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: of many international influences because of people returning from World
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: War One, which started in July of nineteen fourteen and
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: went to November of nineteen eighteen, and not to cast
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: aspersion on these returning soldiers. But a lot of them
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: didn't just bring an appreciation for foreign food or new
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: sorts of architecture music back home with them. They also
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: brought some diseases. That's right, because they couldn't keep their
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: d's in their peace right where.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: A family show.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So what ended up happening is they returned home to
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: their significant others, or they met people in the States
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: and they transmitted some of these diseases they had picked up.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, things like syphilis, gonorrhea, things that genuinely posed not
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: only a national health risk, but also a national security risk.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I read this the idea of it potentially preventing soldiers
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: from being effective in battle. Right. Some of these diseases
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: are no joke.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: They debilitate you severely, especially as they progress, things like syphilis.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: And then you know, as we mentioned, there were a
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: couple of other diseases in the mixed chlamydia, the clap
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: as well. And when this spike happened, it was noticeable.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: It was an outbreak. It wasn't just like two people
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: in a town all of a sudden showed symptoms of
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: god rhea when they were tested, and States started to
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: panic and usually, unfortunately, when human communities panic, we often
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: tend to target the people with the least agency or
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the least power in a community or that.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: And when we panic, we tend to screw up and
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: overshoot the mark a little bit, right, So, in an
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: effort to quash these potential outbreaks, in Kansas in particular,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: it was in nineteen seventeen that there was a law
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: pass called Chapter two five, known as the State of
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Kansas Quarantine Law. And what this essentially meant was anyone
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: suspected of having a sexually transmitted disease. It basically gave
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: public health officials an insane amount of leeway in terms of, Hey,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: you there, Ben, you're looking a little peaked today. I
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: think you probably have gone rhea into the cells with you.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: So before we go any further, let's clarify here. STDs
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: transmit across the entirety of the gender spectrum's right, So
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: this means that if Kansas and other states are so
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: very concerned about the threat posed by STDs, they should
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: be locking up everyone who has one.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, that's right, except we were just desperate for
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: able bodied men to fight in this you know, horrific conflict,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: So it would be kind of counterproductive to lock up
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: every man suspected of having one of these diseases, especially
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: since the testing at the time right very inaccurate.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: The testing was nowhere near sophisticated as testing methods today. Additionally,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: there was this huge sexual double standard, you know what
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, talk about victim blaming this. We shall also
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: say a lot of this information is coming from Nicole Perry,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: a University of Kansas researcher who dug into the story
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: behind chapter two five. So we've established the gist right
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the general way in which this occurred. But we should
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: probably also mention that when they were taking women to
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: court for these situations, they would find excuses to intervene
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: in and then find out that they had STDs and
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: then punish them like they would They would use charges
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: like vagrancy.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: That's right, no for sure. And the thing about this
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: too is these women didn't go to the state penitentiary
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: because the idea was that they would be abused by
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: the male inmates. So nearby there was actually another facility
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: called the Kansas State Industrial Farm, which was in fact
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: a farm but is officially a working farm, but it
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: was officially listed as a prison. That's right, exactly. And
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the notion was that social reformers, as is discussed in
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: this article from caseu R The Faces of Long Gone
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Women tell a New story of the Kansas State Prison,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: social reformers believe that women that went there had the
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: potential to be rehabilitated. But here's the thing. In this article,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: there's a woman named Jennifer Moyer who got a grant
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: from the state to set up a exhibit at the
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Lansing Historical Museum, which is a very small place in
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: a former train depot, all in the actual prison grounds.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And she got ahold of all these amazing intake photographs
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: of inmates when they you know, when they were admitted,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I guess, and they're incarcerated booked exactly. And she noticed
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: that following the opening of this separate women's prison in
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: the spring of nineteen seventeen, it only had about seventeen
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: inmates total, and that was pretty common in Kansas. But
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: when Chapter two of five kicked in, it rose significantly
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: to almost four hundred women in the facility by the
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: end of that year. The end of that year, and
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: that continued to grow because you see, after the war ended,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: this statute stayed on the books, and they kept using
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: it to persecute women. Right.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And in her research, Jennifer Meyer finds short write ups
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: of interviews that the inmates, that the inmates had with
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: the authorities, and this is how she learned that several
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: things were happening as a result of this moral panic,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: one of those being that women were being rounded up
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: in raids, and then some had been turned in by
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: jilted lovers, right.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And just in general, they were profiled because, like we
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: said earlier, because those tests for these diseases were so inaccurate.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you might have a public health official who says, oh,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: you're sexually active, therefore you must have an stdre to
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: the prison farm with you.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: And then also this magnifies the tragedy. Some women turned
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: themselves in of their own accord because they had been
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: exposed to an STD and treatment at the time was
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: very expensive, not to mention often not safe.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the term toxic came up a few times.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: What are we talking.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Here, Well, we have to remember this is the age
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: before the widespread use of penicillin, right, So there are
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: treatments of things like sulfonylamide on gonorrhea, and these things
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: could work, but they could also be dangerous. You know,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: you're poisoning your body in some cases.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw another one too, for pre penicillin treatment
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: of gnohea. That was something called cubebs, which is an
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Indonesian pepper that was turned into a powder and applied
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: to the affected area. And if you can imagine rubbing
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: a hot pepper on your genitals, that's not a fun
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: sounding experience at all.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: I mean to each their own, but yeah, I would
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: say in general, that's not for me at least. So
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: these people, if they were not well off financially, had
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: no place to go to get treatment. Not to mention
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: the shame that could spread around town, right, your reputation
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: being key, especially in small town and the state of
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Kansas itself did not invest in free public health clinics
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: at this time, So the closest many people could get
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: to a free public health clinic is the farm.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, No, I mean, it really is a
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: pretty dire situation when you have someone in genuine need
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: who has done nothing wrong and potentially, you know what,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: had intercourse with someone who may have even known they
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: had the disease and decided to keep that from the partner.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: You know, this happens all the time, right, So you're
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: literally victimized people who are already victims.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, and not only victimizing them in this legal sense,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: but also in this again this moral sense that you
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: are a woman of ill repute and so on. And
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: as you said, and I think this is important point,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: they were not held there for the rest of their lives.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: They were typically in for a matter of several months, right,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: two or three months. We don't know what happens to
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of them after they leave, because there's no
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: there's just no paper trail, right, except for in a
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: few very isolated cases. And these are young kids too,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: like sixteen to twenty two, I think.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you want to see some of these women,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: you know, and you're in the area, I highly recommend
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: that you check out this exhibit at the Lansing Historical
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Museum because these images are incredibly stark. They're captured using
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: very high quality glass plate negatives, which I believe is
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: still like a fine art photography method that's used today,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: and they yield these very stark black and white images.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: And in the article, the curator of this Museum. This
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: exhibit talks about how surprising it is that these images
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: are so old, and that it's very easy to look
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: at these faces and kind of identify and see yourself
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: in them because they really, you know, other than the dress,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: these are humans and it's very striking to kind of
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: see them because they I'm looking at this one of
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: a woman and she's in her profile shot, she's kind
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: of like looks a little timid and looking away, but
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: in her head on shot, she almost has like kind
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: of a grin on her face. Yeah, and you know,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: and really some of these the clothes aren't even that
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: dated looking other than just the little you know, what
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: do you call it, the prison number and the you know,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: the little tag that you hold up look very much
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: like a mugshot you might see today, only black and white. So, yeah,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: the slate.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: There's a there's a very emotionally charged human element to this,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and it's tough. Two, it's tough to overestimate the importance
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: of these photographs in history, right because I don't know
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: about you, Noel, but I'm pretty sure neither of us
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: knew about this practice before we started examining it for
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: this episode.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely not and we met. We mentioned at the
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: top of the show, and I think it goes without
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: saying because of the military situation, but Meyer was asked
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: how many men she found that had been incarcerated because
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: of chapter two of five, and she says she couldn't
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: find any. So I think that kind of goes without
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: saying that that men were kind of able to just
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: get away with murder. There's even a story about, you know, oh,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I got a disease from my husband and he reported
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: me just to like get rid of me. It's just
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: this kind of witch hunt kind of situation.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: And the question that many of us are probably wondering
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: at this point is how far did this go? How
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: many people did Chapter two five affect? Well, we can
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: say that number of people the penitentiary rose from seventeen
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: to four hundred and this of the year. Eventually it
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: led to around five thousand women being imprisoned at the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: farm while the law was on the books between nineteen seventeen.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And nineteen forty two. Insane. Yeah, that's wild, because you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: if it was designed to or at least intended to,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: you know, help with this war situation, it's interesting that
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: it stayed on the books for so long after as
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: a means of kind of rounding up what might be
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: considered as sinful women in the eyes of like a
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: possibly puritanical rule of law.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: And you can read some great articles about this, particularly
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: on the University of Kansas website. There's a great article
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: titled Researcher Documents Gender class bias in Quarantine law Measures.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: And one thing that was pretty important to us in
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: our research and with our research team looking at this
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: was to note that the US does have a history
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of quarantining, detaining, or in turning citizens on its own soil.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Right exactly. The Justice Department actually oversaw the internment of
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: more than what was it been, thirty thirty thousand, more
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: than thirty thousand American civilians during World War Two.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this included more than eleven thousand people of
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: German descents, Yeah, just just because of their ancestry, the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: three thousand due to their Italian ancestry. And then of
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: course there were the US citizens who were in Japanese
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: internment camps as well.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: And not to mention the fact that in the eighties
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: and nineties during the HIV AIDS epidemic or when it
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: first kind of came into the public consciousness. There was
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: actually suggestion consideration of rounding up those affected by that
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: into some kind of quarantine situation.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: And we know that ultimately that did not occur. But
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the scary number for that is, in nineteen ninety one,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: thirty four percent of the US public supported the idea
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: of quarantining people who add HIV.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: It's a similar situation to you know, with the STD
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: panic that we're talking about in the twenties, where it
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: is seen as it's something new that they haven't experienced before,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: and it's seen as a potential public health crisis. So
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: you know, people do stupid stuff when they panic.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: But we do have a I guess a little bit
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: of let's say, light at the end of the tunnel
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: of moral panic here, because that nineteen ninety one stat
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: we just mentioned changes over time, and.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: These stats are from a report from the Psychology Department
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: of UC Davis. There was another stat from ninety one
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: saying that as many as twenty nine percent of the
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: population believe that names should be named. So I talk
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: about a witch hunt for those suffering from AIDS and
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: they should be made public. But in the Spanish, just
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: a handful of years. By ninety seven, only one in
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: six endorsed these kinds of policies, and fewer than one
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: in five supported doxing these people for lack of a
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: better expression, putting out these names. So you know, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: certainly the stigma surrounding STDs has similarly changed in this
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: country from the way it may have been in World
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: War One.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one would hope that we are making progress not
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: just as a society but as a species today. As
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: we said, this law is no longer on the books
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: in Kansas, but it is important to remember that things
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: like this, crazy as they sound, really did occur.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: It's true. And if we're doing a few stats, I
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: think we should wrap with with a pretty interesting one today.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: According to the American Sexual Health Association, one and two
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: sexually active people will contract STD or STI infection by
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: the age of twenty five of some sort of some
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: sort exactly, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: estimate that in someone in the neighborhood of twenty million,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: new in and says of STDs occur every single year.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: The good news is, however, that there are multitudes of
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: resources that can help you if you have any concerns.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: You can go get free tests right in a city
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: near you to steal a line from that men's warehouse guy.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I guarantee it, And of course you hear it all
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the time. Just practice safe sex and just be smart
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: about it. There's all kinds of resources, like Ben said,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and there's all kinds.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Of ways to protect yourself from getting one of these things.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: So you know, there you go.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: No, it occurs to me that we have completed our
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Kansas episode, but there's so many other interesting stories about Kansas.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Are we going to end up doing a thing where
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: we have like four episodes about one state and one
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: episode for other states?
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: but you know, some states are greater than others in
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: terms of the stories, but we're trying to dig for
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: all of them. Man, we're not We're not gonna discriminate
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: right against the states upfront, but the scrimmas state. Yeah,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: that's good, Ben, that's not that's I like it. I
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: liked it. It was worth it, as you would say, And.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: So we need your help. Let us know about the strange,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: little known historical oddities you have discovered researching a particular
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: state in the US. You can tell us about it
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: on Instagram, you can tell us about it on Twitter.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: We would love if you tell us, along with your
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: fellow Ridiculous Historians about your research on our community page,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. And before we go, you know what, No,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: we've been on a kick about this lately. I say
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: we double down and do some more listener mail.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Is it because the episodes has been running short?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: It's because this episode is shorter, Yes, that's true.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: But it's a good one. You know, it's absolutely worthwhile,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: very important, and it certainly was a darker time in
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: this country. But you know less, history repeat itself always
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: a good idea to kind of keep on top of
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the trends of the past.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and now, without further delay, Casey, could you set
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: us up for listener mail. So this is not our
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: usual listener mail kind of thing, but I thought this
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: was hilarious and if you haven't seen it on Ridiculous Historians,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: we wanted to share this with you.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: First, Welcome to Nicole p. Nicole.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: You are a new member on the group, and you
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: recently said, does anyone hate these Starbucks ads as much
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: as I do? I feel like they're on every podcast
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and they make me want to flip over tables and
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: burn down as Starbucks.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Well, the joke's on you, because the tables at Starbucks
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: are bolted down, my friend.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: They thought about it, and just reading the descriptions of
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: this opprobrium is so amazing.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Melissa E.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: F responds, not just you, I hate them with the
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: fiery passion of a thousand suns.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing, folks, we don't always have control over
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: which ads get in our show, especially when they're ones
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: we don't ourselves read or endorse. But you know what,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: they keep the lights on, and they keep our mouths
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: talking into these here microphone, Thank yous.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Just the one war though, this is I'm reading these
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: because I you know, as a lover of language, I
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: really respect a good turn of phrase. So Jerry m
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: agrees and says, yes, annoying and somehow semi inappropriate, to
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: which Nicole p says, right, it's like being told to
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: have to pee by someone trying to seduce me.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, oh wow, Oh my good gracious, that's that's
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: the closest we can get as a family show. I
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: really hope Starbucks isn't listening today. I hope they make
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: an out about it. Hey, you know what, it's fun.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: We love Starbucks. Actually, I go, I go, I get
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: my Starbucks. I get my Bucks on on the.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Rag and your point you're pointing by ads is right.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: We just we want to thank everyone listening for being
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: so supportive of our show and also being so consistently hilarious.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Agreed. Okay, the next one is uh. I don't know.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not walking it back, but it's a little mea
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: culp for me. We've got one from Cameron. A. Hi,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: my name is Cameron. Let me just say I love
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: your show. I wait every episode you guys put out.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: If I use social media, I would join your groups,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: but I'm too busy for social media at the moment. However,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: regarding your latest episode at the time, this was the
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: British soccer game where the Brits gave the Nazi salute.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I was a little sad to hear you guys compare
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: the United States to Nazi Germany. I do respect that
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: you first began with not to get political, but it
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: still made me feel a bit unwelcome as a listener
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: to the podcast. Not a huge Trump fan, a conservative libertarian,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: but he is still our commander in chief, and I
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: wish him the best I can in his term as president.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: So I do just want to say that my statement
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: there in our statement, I mean it was I'm the
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: one who said it and then backed me up. It
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: was mainly just the idea of watching history repeat itself
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: in terms of appeasement. I was not comparing America to
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Nazi Germany. I was more saying the pieces that were
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: laid that led to something like the Nazis being able
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: to take power are strangely similar to what we're seeing
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: with our administration right now in terms of letting things slide.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: That there's like sort of an escalating effect that you
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: can kind of get a sense of and maybe compare
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: the two historical circumstances. I am in no way implying
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: that Donald Trump is one to one with Adolf Hitler
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: at all, and we are not a political show. But
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: it was a parallel that I could not help but
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: notice and felt compelled to comment on.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I see also also this was interesting to me. First, Cameron,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: thank you for your well worded and pretty respectful email,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: But this reminded me of Godwin's law.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Do you know what that is? Gladwin's law, no Godwin,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: no relationship. Okay, god wy In.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: It's a weird thing that you may have heard if
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you're familiar with the internet. Godwin's Law, also called Godwin's
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: rule of Hitler analogies, is this Internet adage that says,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: as no online discussion grows longer, the probability of a
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: comparison involving Hitler approaches one, which this guy's argument is,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: no matter who who you talk about, no matter what
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: you talk about, if it's online, you talk about it
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: long enough. At some point, Nazis are gonna come up.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Have you seen this Teddy rouxspin, this new online Teddy ruxspin.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: It's just like Nazi Germany.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: It's pretty the pieces are there. Yeah.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: So okay, if you're cool with it, maybe we end
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: with with a funny email.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that smart. We go funny, heavy, funny.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like m PR, which is true, that's their formula.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: We are also big m PR fit.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: So this email, everybody, get your ears ready for this.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: This email is called.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: How could you do It? That should be a segment
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: from from Noel l oh cool namesake in Oe l
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: l e Ah whatever. Forget her. I'm sure you'll be famous. Friends.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: So, Noel, you wrote in to say, I want to
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: know how you could do a show on the epic
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: song Louie Louie and speak of its supposed to batchry
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: impact on America's youth and not even mentioned one of
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the greatest covers of it, John Belushi and Animal House.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: That one scene defines everything that the mothers and fathers
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: were worried. The song was encouraging. Guys, it was a
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: great show, But I kept waiting for you to at
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: least mention this piece of American film history in connection
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: with the song. You blew it, guys. Double Secret Probation
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: for you, Noel, Ell, I.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Don't get the reference. I haven't seen Animal House. Animal
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: House is great, Casey, have you seen Animal House?
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: No?
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: I haven't, But I do know the double Secret Probation thing,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: because that was also like on the special edition when
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: it came out, it was the Double Secret Probation Edition.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: So so I've got to get you, guys. We've got
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: to have a pizza party and watch Animal House.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I've never seen The Blues Brothers either, so I've got
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: some real holes in my comedy film history, you know.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I watched The Blues Brothers when I was a kid
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: with I guess some relatives.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: And I think I just didn't get it, you know
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: what I mean. I think a lot of it went
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: over my head.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: But thank you so much for writing in Noel and
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: everyone else.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Let us know.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: If I've got to take Casey and Noll to a
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: movie night sometime soon, should we go for Animal House
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: or should we go for Blues Brothers.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Or what about Blues Brothers two thousand?
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: I saw that one in the theater. Yeah, I heard
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: it was quite bad, And yeah, you guys don't need
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: to catch up on those.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Cool There's actually an episode of How Did This Get Made?
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: About it if you want to check that show out
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: with Paul Sheer and June, Diane Raphael and Jason man Zucaus.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Paul Sheer, who has actually been a guest on our
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Sister Brother Peer Peer podcast movie crush.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: YEP, and uh, Blues Brothers two thousand is ridiculously cameo heavy.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: So uh so, I guess it depends on how you
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: feel about cameos.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: But or what about the band cameo ward app Yeah,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: the band cameo themselves.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: They don't get enough mentions and that's why you tuned
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: into Ridiculous History so you can hear Cameo get the
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: passing they deserve.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, I know we're in Tangent City right now when
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: need to have this up. But I have to say
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: this because I was standing around at the airport. I'm
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: listening a comedy Bang Bang, which I love, and there
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: is a character, you know the show. They have different
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: improv actors playing characters coming on the show talking to
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Scott Ackerman, and one of them was his character was
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: it's the guy from Cameo and every he just speaks
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: like Hello Scott, Hello, Bam wired app and it's like
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: that's how he speaks, and I'm like, I recognize that voice.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: And it was Carl Tart, who used to be one
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: of the co hosts of our other cohort podcasts, Culture Kings. Oh,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: he's the.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Guy that Got Away Comedy's.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: He also plays the chief on Comedy Bang Bank, the
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Carmen san Diego character. I had no idea.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty awesome, congratulations Carl. Maybe we could have him
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: come on our show at some point.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Who knows.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, we are pretty friendly with each other and.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: We do seem to be check out the recent episode
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: with Robert Evans. I actually listened to it myself in
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: the wild. That was a fun little discussion about the
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: racist origins of Oregon.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Robert Van's the mastermind behind the new podcast Behind.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: The Bastard's True. Check it out, Check it out.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: And let us know what you think, and tune in
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: for our next episode, when we explore Oscar Wilde, the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: morals of Victorian England, the incredibly complicated fashion required of the.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Time, and an infamous pair of cross dressers who set
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: the hoity toity world of late Victorian England ablaze.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Thanks to our super producer, Casey Pegram, thanks to Christopher Hasiotis,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: our research assistant, thanks to.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Alex Williams who composed our theme, and most importantly, thanks
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: to you for putting up with us to knuckleheads and
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: digging the show. We'll see you next time. For more
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.