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Agatha All Along Finale · May The Review Be With You

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Down, Down, down the road, down, Hello, love to May
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the review be with you.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: With Nick and Joe.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I'm Joe, and today we are talking about the finale
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: of Agatha All Along. We are at the end of
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: the road and what a trip it has been.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Down down, down the road.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Down the witches Road. I forgot this is a coven.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: This is a coven, and the coven supports each.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Other at the end, just like Billy and Agatha.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: The covens around me, you tend to die, just FYI,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Agatha All Along. Extremely excited to talk about this with
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: you today, Nick, Nick, how are you feeling about the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: finale and the season?
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Overall?
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Extremely happy?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: This is.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: It's like a perfect story. I don't I really don't
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: have a lot of dislikes that's later in the episode.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: But this was done so well. And dare I say,
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Marvel's back, baby.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Marvel might be back, man, Marvel really might be back,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: because like we we have been pretty consistent with.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Our with our hits.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Agatha all Along, we had, of course Deadpool and Wolverine.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: What was right before Deadpool and Wolverine? That was actually
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: really great? Drawing a blank on it, maybe it wasn't
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: that great shoot spend ninety ninety seven was amazing.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we are at least I might be missing
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: something there, but we are at least three three hits
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: in a row for Marvel.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Marvel might be back.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Get the haters out of here, and you know what,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I will own up to this. I have been consistent
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: with this on this channel. I did not want this show.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: When I first heard about Agatha all Along, maybe a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: year or two ago, whenever they made that announcement, I
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: was like, this is probably what I'm least excited for.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I think it was Echo. It was Echo
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: and then Agatha all Along. That I was like, I
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: don't care about either.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Of these things.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: And Echo was like it was mildly entertaining. It's not
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: at something I will ever probably go back and rewatch.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: This.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: This I'm so glad I was wrong about. I want
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: this to be a part of my Halloween watching life
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: for the rest of time.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this was. This is so rewatchable. It's crazy how
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: good it is on the rewatch. Like, to your point,
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Echo was good but not something I ever really kind
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: of want to go watch again. But this is an
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: immediate I have to rewatch this episode right now after
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: just finishing it. It's exciting because you know, rewatching the
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: whole MCU movie timeline and TV show timeline is is
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: really just a fun thing to do. Like I'm currently
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: in the midst of that right now, and we're like
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: our next our next one is Black Widow. But the
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: great part is like there's a whole bunch of TV
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: shows and obviously the new phases to watch as well,
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: and so some of them you might want to skip,
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: like Secret Invasion because it kind of sucks, but we
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: like to.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Believe that that's no longer part of the mc timeline.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: We can only help. But like getting for this to
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Agatha all along as exciting as heck so, and the
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: great part is we're exciting is hex hex I see
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: what you did there. But the coole part, it's almost
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: kind of like, right, we had talked about this on
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: a previous episode. It's really like a trilogy of a
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: TV series, right, because you have want a vision of
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Agatha all along, and then vision the vision series.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: The Supposion Quest.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: The Vision Quest is supposed to kind of be like
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: the third part of this. These stories so exciting times
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: and the MCU.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I gotta say, like, it's just as far
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: as like coming off the high of the finale of Agatha,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: it is so fun for me to look at this
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: finale and realize how it recontextualizes not just Agatha all
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Along like going back in the rewatch value that you
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: can get out of rewatching the season, but also WandaVision.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I actually, you know, every time Agatha all Along ends,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Disney recommends, hey, you might be interested in watching WandaVision
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: if you haven't watched it already, you a big weirdo
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: and rewatching that with the idea of who Agatha actually
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: is and what she's actually lost along the way, it
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: makes WandaVision a lot more interesting to watch, especially with
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: her interactions with Tommy and Billy. But we can get
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: more into the meta of that in a bit here,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: So let's get into the finale discussion. But before we do, guys,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: if you enjoy the content that you are hearing and
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: seeing on our channel, please, you know, give us a
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: subscribe and ring that bell so you can stay in
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: touch with more of our videos in the future, because
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: we've got a lot more to discuss this year and
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: damn definitely next year. Marvel is just pumping them out baby.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: The finale, and what a.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Way to start.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: We start with a brief conversation I think between Jen
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: and Billy, and then that transitions to Death, Rio and Agatha. Nick,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: how did you like these conversations?
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: Extremely interesting? My favorite one was the one between Death
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: and Rio and Agatha. And there's a line that Real
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: says that make that made me immediately think of Loki, right.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I think she uses the phrase like sacred order of
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: things or I forget exactly what it was, but there
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: was a very like Loki esque, you know, like she's
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: pulling the strings behind the scenes of course or what
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: have you, and in some way she is because she's Death.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: So it was it was neat because we this is
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a moment where we get some clarity as far as
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: motivations go. We start to understand a little bit further
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: why Death is tagging along. We knew that she wanted
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Agatha right from the first episode, that that was made
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: very clear to us, but we have come to find
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: out that, yeah, she's also very interested in trying to
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: take Billy away since technically he is someone who has
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: cheated death as well, and he is an abomination.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: One other thing about that scene we get rio when
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: she exits, she walks like to the back. She turns
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: around and starts walking to the back of the you
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: know set if you will, to exit, and she takes
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: her dagger out and slices a hole through the backdrop basically,
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: which like when you're watching it the first time, you're like, well,
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: she's like ripping a hole in like reality in some ways,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: and and then like exits the backdrop and that was
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: like really done on set, Like she took a dagger
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: through the actual backdrop of the set and exited. Wasn't
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: some kind of CGI thing or anything like that, And
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: like they totally ripped up the backdrop of this set
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: design on while filming, and just like a cool little
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: practical effect. It feels a little off when you first
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: see it, and then we find out the reason why
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: it was even why she did she does that, and
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: there's a reason why it feels a little off, which
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: we can get to that in a little bit later.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: But actually, I wouldn't mind well, I mean, we could
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: definitely harken back to this, but I wouldn't mind getting
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: into that right now. Great, because yeah, I really love
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: that moment because it works on like two different levels.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: It's the first one being you know, for what you're
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: referencing that all of this actually isn't real, right, it's
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: a manifestation that Billy has created, right, using real references
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: in his life.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: And the other reason why I really love this little
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: moment because like they didn't have to do it right,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's a moment that contributes not a
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: lot in pushing the plot. It is a neat like
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: inner world detail. But like the other reason why I
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: really love it is it reminds me. There's so many
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: references to the Wizard of Oz throughout this show, and
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: it reminds me of like the backdrop that's in the
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz, like on the yellow brick road throughout
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: the entire movie, and like when you look at it
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: with hindsight, right, you're watching that movie and you're like,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: you know that's a backdrop. You're like, that doesn't look good.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: That's fake. So I love that, Like they kept that
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: detail to demonstrate that this isn't reality, right, that was
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: a really clever way to do that, very and subtle too.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: And then you don't and then you realize later once
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: it's revealed that like, this whole thing is a manifestation
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: of Billy's idea of what the road would be if
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: it was real. Then you realize, like, oh my god,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: it felt off, but it's because everything is off. It's
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: all fake basically except for the dying. The dying was real.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: So we make our way to the final challenge, which
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: takes us to a very sterile morgue. I think this
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: actually ends up being my favorite challenge for the simplicity
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: of it all. I love that it's in order to
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: grow something, you have to have like this emotional awakening
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: in the morgue, right, Like it's there's like a I'm
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: not smart enough to properly explain this. There are smarter
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: people online who I'm sure nail this, but like there's
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: something about a death and a rebirth going on there,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: especially with Jen with with the unbinding that she does,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: you know, coming out of you know, the coffin, right,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: and then later when she actually gets what she wants,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: she's literally digging herself out of the ground.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Right, So definitely a rebirth going on there for her.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: I would say that that's true for Agatha, but she
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: really just ends up back in the ground. At the
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: end of all of this, right, But yeah, So, like
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I said, we get this scene. There's a lot going
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: on in the scene, I think emotionally, that's why I
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: tend to like it so much. There's a revelation that
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Agatha is the one who bound Jen, which answered there's
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a mystery that we've had since finding out what happened
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: to Jen. How did you know a mortal man do
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: that to her? And then we have Billy and Agatha
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: searching for Tommy and finding him a host body, and
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: then finally Agatha being able to grow something, which you know,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: there's definitely a metaphor there as far as I think
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Tommy is concerned being able to grow something and having
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: it blossom. Right, Nick, what'd you think of the final challenge?
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Oh? Heart breakingly good, you know, just kind of what
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: you alluded to, the whole death and rebirth of it all.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: The unbinding scene with Jen was so good. She's phenomenal.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: That was you know, that's a simple scene, but that
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: was really really powerful that it was. It was awesome.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Nick Sasher's Zamanta, she's the actress who plays Jen, and
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: it's amazing that she can take that one line of
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: you hold nothing and just find so many different ways
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: to deliver that line emotionally and effectively. I actually got
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I got the teeniest bit choked up when she got
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: to the last you hold nothing.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: That was that was strangely riveting. Honestly it was.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: It was really good. It's hilarious too that Agatha was
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: the one who ends up being the one that binded her.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: And Agatha doesn't even remember because she's so horrible throughout
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: her life. She can't possibly remember all the people she's
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: hurt because it's everyone.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Right, Like, like that just goes to I guess the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: the ultimate truth that we end up learning in the
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: next episode, right that, like everything can almost be explained
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: by Agatha. Right, it's Agatha all along, like like almost
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: everything yep. After after Jen performs the unbinding lose gen
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and it is just Billy and it's just Agatha. And
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Agatha has this realization that you know, you can you
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: can leave the road once you get what you want.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: So she's gonna help Billy get what it is that
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: he wants, right, And they go through uh this like
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: meditative ritual and then it becomes a matter of trying
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: to find a host body for Tommy to occupy.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Am I reading that right?
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that's what I got from it,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: but maybe that is right, because it was almost like
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: they just kind of found Tommy floating around somewhere.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: So I think I think Agatha says, like, you know,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: he's he's always been with you or something something along
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: those lines, like it's a very like you know, talk
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: about wizard of Oz, Like that's a very wizard of
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Oz like trope to hit on, right, Like the thing
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: that you were looking for was inside you all along, right,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: like you know, courage, a brain, and you know, a
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: herd the way home at you know, Dorothy's always had
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the way home.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: With her right right.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: So I'm pretty sure that's what they were going for there.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: You know, all that was required was Agatha providing a
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: way home for Tommy, right, which I think leads to
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: what I think is the most heartbreaking line in this
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: entire show with Billy very in a very scared and
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: fearful way. Joe Locke, you know, really selling this line
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: of am I killing this boy?
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: And then he.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Disappears and it's just Agatha by herself with this line
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: of sometimes boys die, damn.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: It, which.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: That line hits harder after you watch the next episode.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Two mm hmm.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: This show had a way of like it's like it
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: hits you, and then you watch another episode and then
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: you retroactively whacked in the head again from the previous
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: episode when it's explained even more why they were, why
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: something was happening.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Which I guess that that segues really beautifully into this
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: confrontation with Death Right, which I I love that they
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: saved this for the last trial because you can almost
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: argue that this is part of the last trial since
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the last trial is supposed to be for the Greenwitch
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: for death And then you know, we are confronted by
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Rio after completing the Road, which we learn at the
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: end of this episode is not real and that this
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: is why Catherine Hahn or asking me Agatha does not
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: get her prize from the Road Right, which I will
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: have to talk about that, you know, why she she
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: feels as though she's entitled to a prize when she
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: herself knows that this isn't real.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Right, That's very interesting.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Rio is here and she she wants she wants Agatha, uh,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: And I really love the first part of this fight
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: h that Agatha, you know she doesn't have her power,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: but she still has like spells that she can cast,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you know, the old fashioned way, right, analog magic. And
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I love that she's trying to do that. And it's
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: like she almost knows it's fruitless, right, and and Rio
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: is just literally blowing her away. You know, she's too
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: conceptually powerful to trifle with such like simple uh witchcraft, right,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: But I love that Agatha's trying anyway, right, That to
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: me made the fight in the beginning very interesting. And
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: then Billy returns. Billy returns in his Wiccan outfit. He's
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: gone full Wickan, which in this show you can always
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: go full Wickan.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: And that's fine, uh.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: So Nick for for me, I love what happens next, right,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Billy willingly transfers his power to Agatha, and you know,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I you know that she's not gonna kill him, but like,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I love that they make you hang on to that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: thought long enough, right, leaving you in that suspense, and
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: then that transitions into our final fight with death. What
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: are your thoughts on this overall?
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: I thought it was I don't know. I guess it
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: was a little shocked that he decided to give her
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: his power. I mean, granted, he didn't lose all of it.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: But my question is like, so then he's not as
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: powerful now as he was before, right, but he still
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: has some magic.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: How does that work?
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: That's my whole question, Like I don't know how power
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: magic transfer works like this. Does that mean Agatha just
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: gets all of her power back that she also had
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: previously because now she has magic in her or does
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: she only have like the amount that Billy gave her
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: and then Billy has less?
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Like how the shit does this go? To believe?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: It's like a lizard's tail, right, Like you cut off
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: the lizard's tail, you walk away, you got a tail,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: but like you know, a lizard's gonna grow it back,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Like it's okay, it'll be fine.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: So everyone's got their max power back. Basically I think, yeah, yeah, okay, cool.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know this is This is the kind
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: of thing where you're like, if you look too hard
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: at it, you're like, what, okay, so I'm the problem.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: It's me, man, Just let me enjoy my which show.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Damn it?
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: No, I agree, there's no there's a great terminology for
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: for stuff like this. It's like soft magic versus hard magic.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Systems and Marvel definitely plays with what is referred to
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: as a soft magic system, which like does not really
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: explain what magic is or how it works. It just
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: whatever the whatever the plot requires, that's what magic does.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: That's okay, hey, it works for the most part. I
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: just that's that's kind of what I was thinking in
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: that moment.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Really, you know, yeah, I love that you pointed that
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: out because that got us talking about magic systems, which
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: actually ultimately is my problem with what happens next. And
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that this doesn't last long unlike WandaVision because
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: like right after this, we kind of lose the creativity
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of the fight and we just go straight into dragon ball.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Z key blasts, right, and like come on, Like I mean, if.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: If there was interesting choreography going on with the magic
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: key blasts, like that'd be cool. But like it's just
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: sel Ver's gohan, just like throwingkame hami has at each other, right,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Like that's all it is, And I'm sick of watching that.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I want to see some creative magic going on. You
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: remember Order of the Phoenix when Double Dore and Voldemore
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: they're not just throwing out a lot of cadavers at
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: each other they're doing creative stuff with their magic and
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: it's awesome. It's one of the best fights in all
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: of Harry Potter. Yeah, and maybe maybe I just wanted
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: that for a magreat.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: Example actually of what you can do with like magic battles.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: That's a great example.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: That is one of the best that I think.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: That's like the definitive magic battle in cinema. Honestly, yeah,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: it really is.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Well, then there's like an embrace and like Agatha and
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Reel make out, and then that is also how Real
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: kills Agatha, which is like.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Well not not before Billy decides he's going to sacrifice
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: himself for her, right right, right, right right, Yeah, I
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: get there.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think she's playing him here.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I think she actually had an intention of being like, hey,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you should probably get out of here, kid, but then
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: the opportunity presents herself and she's.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, well, actually if I can live.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a weird, like I don't know, like
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: five minutes of back and forth, right, it looks like
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: she's gonna leave and and and turn him over, and
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: then he's like sacrificing himself for her, and then she
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: ends up like changing her mind and coming to Rio
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: and like, but then like that also means that Rio
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: and her looking at each other when she's dying, when
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: she said she didn't want to do that, like the
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: episode before, she didn't want to ever see Rio again.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Like, so it's like.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: A, that was a little bit strange.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: No, I totally agree with you here. And this has
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: actually been a complaint I think I've had about, not
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: necessarily Catherine Haunt's performance. I want to say it's either
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the writing or the direction on Agatha that I don't understand.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I can't tell throughout the entire season when Agatha is
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: saying things like the exchange she has with Billy, right,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: if she's being emotionally manipulative with people, or if she's
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: an opportunist and she's just really great at seizing an opportunity.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: The finale makes me think she's not this great thinker
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and she's just really great at seizing opportunities.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: So I want to believe that was a genuine moment
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: that she was having with Billy. But then when the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: opportunity comes to run away, she's like, oh, I would
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: much rather do that. Actually sequence into death where she
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: gets taken by the earth, right, and she produces these flowers,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: which hearkens back to the first challenge, right or not
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the first challenge, the final challenge. What Agatha literally just
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: did before grows something, and you know, with her death,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: she's able to grow more, grow as a person. I
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: don't know about that, but at least at least offers
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: some abundance. We transitioned to Billy and we get the
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: finale here, or get the end of the episode where
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: he has the realization that he manifested the road, and
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: this transitions into the final episode with Agatha of the
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: past and her son Nicholas. But before we get into that, Nick,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: how'd you feel about that revelation?
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: I was still a little confused, to be honest. I
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: was like, wait, like he created the road, like under
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: the impression that like the world was real still right,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: So I was kind of like discovering it with Billy,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: But it took me a second to really I was
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: like questioning it. I was like, wait, what, Like I
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: think it's a really cool way to reveal it. You know,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: like all these things that are in his room, basically
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: all these trinkets and things that he's collect did over
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: time essentially have manifested. He manifested into obviously all the
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: trials in the road and everything.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: You know, it reminds me of that you're talking about
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that this this also being a Wizard of Oz thing
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: where Dorothy's like in her bed and like all the
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: neighbors show up and she's like, and you were there,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and you were there, and you were there. It's like,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: it's literally the same thing with Billy looking around his room.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: It's like, and my poster was there and my toys
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: were there.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: It's literally the same scene.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Parallel in the show are.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this this show makes no secret about how
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: much it used Wizard of Oz as an inspiration, and
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: it does. I think it uses I think it uses
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: all of its inspiration for the Wizard of Oz really
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: well without being like too like Pandury about it right.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Episode eight starts with the birth and death of Nicholas
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: scratch right with Agatha and the worst and she sees
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Rio and she knows what it means. Episode nine, sorry, yeah,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: episode nine, and it's it's a scene where she begs
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Death to give her more time, and because Death loves Agatha,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: she gives her a little bit more time and we
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: get for the next like twenty thirty minutes, this really
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: adorable and sadistic and weird evil relationship.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Between Agatha and her son Nicholas.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Nicholas, how are you feeling about that?
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: That was a really awesome like finale the episode nine.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: It almost felt like an extended after credit scene in
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: some ways, just because you know, we just really get
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: We spend most of the episode with Agatha and Nicki Scratch,
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: and really it's just a montage of Agatha teaching her
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: son how to help her steal other witch's power, and
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: we get we get to realization that like Nicky Scratch
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: is the one who created the Ballad of the Witch's Road,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: and Agatha created the Witch's Road, you know, as a scam.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: And so the whole episode is it's really entertaining and
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: obviously heartbreaking in many ways, but been all she's been
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: doing for hundreds of years is stealing power and killing
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: other witches.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: This this, to me, was like one of the best
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: moments of the show. That it is it's revealed that
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: it was she and Nicholas had written this together, and
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I think that's amazing because this is a song that
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: has been with us since the beginning. It's a song
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that we've explored almost every episode, and I think, if
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do that, like, it can't just be a song, right, Like,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: there has to be something meaningful to it in which
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: that's you know, directly tied to the heart of this story.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: And it is and it is uh, it's it's something
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: that is that hearkens back to a a better time
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: for Agatha, right, And I I love that with this reveal,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: like in context, uh going back and you know again,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: the rewatch value of this show the scenes in which
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: they are talking about the Witch's Road or or even
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: when they're arguing about the lyrics.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: This this, this scene in Rewatch is gonna be great.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: It's it's the scene where they're arguing about which lyric
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: to sing and and Agatha is like, no, it's this,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: and then Alice jumps in. She's like, no, my mom
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: wrote the you know, the ballot, which grow so like
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: clearly I would know, and you know, like Agatha is
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: sitting there and she's biting her tongue. She's like, but
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I literally wrote it, so I can't I can't wait
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: to rewatch that. I saw someone point this out online
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: that they thought it was interesting that so Nick Nicholas
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: is helping Agatha with the con to get, which is
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to sacrifice their power, right, and it's to survive, right,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: which I think is actually a line in the road
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: about like survival right. And the day he doesn't want
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: to do that, the day that he decides that we're
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: not going to kill, which is today, we can kill
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: whiches tomorrow, that's the day he dies. And I thought
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: that was a really interesting observation. And I'm not sure
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: what they're trying to communicate there as far as what
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: that means, right, Like maybe death was only willing to
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: entertain this for as long as Nicholas fueled. Like you
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: know what Rio gets out.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: Of it, right the second that he is no longer
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: the second he chooses not to deliver souls one time, Rios.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: You're out, kid. Yeah.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: That's the thing though, too, is that like, once he's gone,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: Agatha decides this is really when she decides to like
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: you know this is it really picks up with her
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: stealing other witch's power and killing other witches and she's
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: essentially still she's using the song and this story that
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: they've created and in some ways keeping the memory of
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Nicky Scratch alive because they're singing, they have to sing
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: the song every time, right, So she's yeah, in some
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: ways forever remembering her son.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Weird, which which is.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Well, like that I love that that that that's happening,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: because we've already gotten an example of that with this
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: song earlier in this show with Alice and her mom
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: right right, that every time it's sung, it's a spell
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that's being cast to protect her. So like, this song
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: is used in like so many different ways in this
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: story by so many different characters. Yeah, either for for mourning,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: for casting a spell for for Billy. It's like a
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: wish fulfillment, right, It's Yeah, the song like represents so much.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: I would to just like sit there and like pick
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: apart the lines and see like what you can get.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Out of it.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is really cool.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And you know, like we said, we get to that
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: scene with Nick where he does pass and as you said, Nick,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: you know, Agatha goes full Harkness and just starts murdering
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: witches through the centuries and eventually we get the reveal
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: in the present that Agatha has not moved on and
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: she's a ghost. And dare I say it looks good
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: on her. She looks good as a transparent aged ghost.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just very pretty.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I'm into it. And it's really just because she's still
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: too scared to cross over and face her son, so
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: she's staying behind basically, which I'm glad because anytime Catherine
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: han is on screen is ad is a good thing.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: So yes, that's gonna be really cool.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: I was also happy with this reveal because when Agatha
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: died and we were only on episode eight, I was like, well,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: clearly she's going to come back, And that made me
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: a little sad because I was like, oh, man, are
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: all the deaths gonna get undone? You know, Like not
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: that I don't want those characters to come back, but
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: like their deaths like had meaning behind them, right, right,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: especially Lilia, right, And I wouldn't want to undo what
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: was already beautiful, even though you could make the argument
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: that Alice's death wasn't beautiful, but at least like it
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: had meaning to the story, right, and it highlights like
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: the sinisterness of like of Agatha. Yeah, so I'm glad
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: that they didn't do that but found a way to
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: like keep Agatha around. I do have a question for you,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: though I don't think I quite understand the guilt that
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: she feels or why she feels like she can't base him.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure, like why she feels directly responsible for
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: the death, Like is it because like he lived a
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: life and not long enough because of her?
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Maybe that's the only thing I can think of, right,
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: because instead of him being taken right at birth and
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: not really getting to know what life is and developing
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: his own like you know, awareness.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, either that or or maybe she feels remorse for
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: using him like as a tool.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know, just.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: Overall sadness really, I guess is the just not being
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: ready to to face him in the next life. That's true,
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: that doesn't But that's it. There's not really a lot
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: of explanation, which is fine, I guess, but that's the
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: only thing I can think of as well with you.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: So yeah, but uh, we get a we get another
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: flip flop here. We see Billy and Agatha flip flop
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: with each other a lot throughout this show. We get
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the final one when Billy returns to the basement and
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the road the door to the road is still there.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Which I thought was really cool. Yeah, and he performs
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: a ritual in which he's going to.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Banish her right back into death, and he decides against
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: it when she has her emotional breakdown about why she's
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: still there, and they decide that they actually work really
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: well together, which is I think is true. I think
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: that was evident in the second episode, right when when
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: they're doing hustles together, which wow, damn that really with
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: episode nine that really highlights the what maybe why she
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: even sort of liked Billy right, because like there is
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of him that reminds her of Nicholas, like
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: even in his like improbability to like help her like
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: scam people.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually wow. Yeah, that's actually what he was doing.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: And he didn't even know it.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: He knew he was scamming people, but he didn't know
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: that he was scamming them into their deaths, just like Nick. Right,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: I love the show, Nick. I agree with what you said.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's one of the best TV shows.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I could rank them in any
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: particular order, but I think i'd say, you know, low
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: key Agatha along WandaVision probably for me.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I like that. I have to go
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: rewatch WandaVision but I think that I guess that would
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: actually be number two as well.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think this might be one of the
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: best endings that we've gotten from a Marvel show. I mean,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: like Loki certainly is up there, yeah, but other than that,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I think the Marvel TV shows usually don't do a
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: great job of sticking the ending.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, almost all of them have a great beginning.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, like somewhere somewhere around three quarters to
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: the end, like they start to like lose their way,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: and like even WandaVision I think like stumbles its way
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: into a good ending, right, Like like the final episode,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: they lose their theme right of like exploring life through
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: exploring life's hardships through sitcoms. Right, but then we get
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: like a really tragic goodbye between she and Vision, and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: like that's great, but again it kind of abandons its
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: own theme, whereas like this doesn't you know, exploring like
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: life's hardships through this song and like it it nails
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: that theme all the way through. So yeah, I think
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: it's I think it's one of the best endings at
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: least for Marvel TV that like it's ever done.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Rating time, ratings.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Time, So we do ratings on TV shows out of ten.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Here to offer a little bit more nuance? Uh, Nick,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: what do you rate?
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Agatha? All along?
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Nine point two?
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Nine point two. I'm right there with you, nine point two,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: my friend, all the way to the end.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Let's go, same score, let's go, let's go, let's walk
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the road.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: Okay, what's next? What are we talking about next time?
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Probably something that's also gonna be mind blowing, mind blowingly great,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: the Penguin. And I'm only confident on that because every
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: episode has been so good. I have every confidence in
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: the ending and then sticking it.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: I agree, there's no way that that's those those last
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: That last episode is not a banger. It's good.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I hope we are not setting ourselves up for disappointment there.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: But yes, I agree, we might be. We might be.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Hopefully we are not.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we are recording this I think two episodes before,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: or we are two episodes behind the finale of Penguin
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: right now, which means when we film our episode of
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: the Penguin, we will have missed, or not miss we
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: just will have not talked about the episode that premiered
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: in the meantime. So episode seven of the Penguin, which
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: you know, we're filming the same day that's coming out.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: If you are interested in hearing our thoughts on that, Nick,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: what's the best way that people can pay attention to
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: listen to us?
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: We are on threads and Instagram at Major Review. If
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: you on threads specifically, you know, pretty much daily we're
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: talking about all the things that are streaming currently. Of course,
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: you can find us on YouTube. Please hit that like
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: and subscribe button and until next time.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Bay the Review be with you. Base down, Down, Down down.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Ps