Latest / Seeking Approval Podcast / SA Ep 108 - Modesty (Part 1 - Dress, Gold, and Hair)

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SA Ep 108 - Modesty (Part 1 - Dress, Gold, and Hair) · Seeking Approval Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Seeking Approval Podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Chris Smelster from Iliad Baptist Church.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know life moves fast, and faith is not meant to be rushed.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want to take some time and slow down with you and have some honest conversations from the Word of God about daily living.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: So join me here today on Seeking Approval.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Seeking Approval.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a video that I want to share with you before we begin our discussion topic for today.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to handle this in maybe three or four parts.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure exactly yet.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a layout right now of six things.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if this will be a six-part or if I can tackle a couple of those in one video.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to share this video with you first, let you see the entire video.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's about two and a half minutes long.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll come back and we'll deal with some things that we want to talk about through scripture.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: So first off, let me play this video for you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: If we're calling people that don't live it, brothers.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very loud.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm recording this on a Monday morning, and it's a struggle just to have my voice at this point.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: But what we want to make sure of is that not all loud preaching is correct preaching, and not all quiet preaching is correct preaching.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: The doctrine behind the preaching is what makes it right.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: The reaction of the crowd or the congregation does not make it right or wrong.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about the doctrine.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when studying scripture and the hermeneutics, uh, it's all about context, and context is key.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And comparing scripture to scripture, not scripture to what I think, but scripture to scripture helps us in some of these issues that come up, especially when we start getting into what I would consider to be man-made doctrine.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want to deal with first in this clip, this gentleman began uh at one point talking about women wearing jewelry.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I would not argue that we should have uh holiness, that we should be separate, uh, because I do believe we need to have those things.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: But when you start putting demands that scripture does not explicitly put, and I understand he talks about Acts 2.38, I understand.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: He talks about 1 Timothy 2, 9, uh, and we're gonna look at those and we're gonna compare scripture to scripture and find out uh what the context is actually talking about.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's some parts of the Bible that we take literal, some we take spiritual, uh, some we take for our uh admonishment, uh, some uh some of the Bible.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let me say this way um all the Bible is written for us, not all the Bible is written to us, if that makes sense.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh some things that are written was written to someone else we can learn from it, but it wasn't written directly to us.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for example, there's a lot of scriptures, a lot of Jesus' teaching.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: He talked, Jesus talked more about hell than anybody else.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of talk in the rev in the book of Revelation about hell.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's written for me, for me to understand, to edify, to understand, uh, to um uh to uh help me to uh be able to proclaim it better.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not written to me.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't plan on uh visiting hell any time in my life.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've given my life to Christ.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So there's things that are written for us, there's things that are written to us, and then we've got to we've got to differentiate between those things.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to take this first in what this gentleman's talking about about the the wearing of jewelry.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and let's let's start there because I think we'll see uh in some of these things um not j not just jewelry, but the uh I guess the accoutrements that women will wear, the the fancy clothes and the the hair and things like that, because I think we'll find some uh probably some discrepancies in this video alone.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: But first off, uh 1 Timothy uh two and nine, let's look at see what that says first.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: It says, we don't just uh uh sorry uh in like manner also the women adorn themselves in modest apparel with shamefacedness and sobriety, not with embroidered hair or braided hair, or gold or pearls or costly array, but which becometh women professing godliness with good works.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, taking that verse at face value as literal, it would be saying, Don't wear jewelry, don't fix your hair, don't cut your hair, uh uh you should be uh very um what I would say homely looking, if I could use that term.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you should uh uh never wear your jewelry, never, I mean, all the things that you've seen him talk about.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: But Paul is certainly addressing appearance in this, and there's no way around that.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's certainly addressing the appearance, but he does not say thou shalt not wear jewelry.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: There is not an 11th commandment that says that.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when Jesus was asked about the commandments, he never said that, those words.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I wouldn't argue that because there's a lot of things he didn't say.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: He never said that thou shouldn't be a child molester, there are, you know, anything like that.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't say that, but we know that we ought not to do those things because that's part uh of the natural sin of man.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: But Paul, when discussing this, he didn't say you shouldn't wear those things.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: But he he includes these things together of elaborate hairstyles, uh uh uh uh uh gold markers or or gold uh uh array, uh the pearls and expensive clothing, but he contrasts those things with the good works.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that the good works ought to characterize a godly woman.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And like let me say also a godly man, I'm not just trying to pick on uh or defend women.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is uh it just happens to be that this this section is talking about women, but men as well.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: There are some men out there who wear more jewelry.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they look like they've got on the Mr.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: T starter kit.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know who Mr.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: T is, do a quick Google search.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: But if we're going to interpret this as an absolute ban on those items that are mentioned, then we need to apply that interpretation consistently.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll see where the problem comes in with that in in just a moment.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Would a woman braiding her hair uh be sinful?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Would a woman uh buying uh an expensive dress for you know some certain event, uh be it a a wedding or or uh or a nice event uh that they're going to for uh something formal?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that sinful for a woman to uh present herself in uh in a way that would be godly uh or in a way that would be um that she has value uh or that her husband has value in her if he bought her the item or he bought her the dress?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is it sinful that a woman uh a li uh you know doesn't have uh the the long hair that maybe you know she has her hair uh maybe shoulder length or or or even you know shorter than that?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know what what would be uh acceptable or unacceptable.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've got some other conditions, maybe you've got super thick hair and it's very hard to manage, to maintain.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you got super thin hair and the and the uh and the real long hair is not good because it's so thin and it just you know it you know what what what are we getting to now?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So then where does the standard come in?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Who sets that law, who sets that standard for that?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is it you know, people back in home office at corporate that has to say that you know the woman's hair has to be so long and you know all that?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we can't selectively make one item absolute as a test of holiness while treating others only as a matter of judgment.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go back to the qualifications of a preacher.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Most people will take the qualifications uh in uh in Timothy and Titus.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Most people take those qualifications and they put them as absolutes.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if you went down that list of absolutes, you're not gonna find many men who are worthy to stand and and pastor a church.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not that they're absolutes, and and these are the same thing.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the haircutting and the braiding and and the the jewelry and all that are absolutes.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: It goes back to the intent of the heart.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: It goes back to the intent of the heart.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is it bad for uh my wife and I uh to take a moment one day and uh and maybe you know go outside and and enjoy something that is not uh not biblically based?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe you know she was an athlete, I was an athlete, and we go outside and and we toss the ball back and forth for a little while and we enjoy that and we laugh while we're doing it and and we have a good time.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that sinful because it's not bringing glory to God?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just something that we are in doing that we're doing that we enjoy doing.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is going to a football game on a Saturday, not that we go to Saturday football games here in in East Tennessee, but is going to a football game on a Saturday, is that sinful?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it sinful whenever that becomes, uh takes the place of what we should be doing for God?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: If we miss a church event for it, if we miss our our study time, our prayer time, if we lay aside those things, then it becomes sinful.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the intent that we have to have, and that's what God judges.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: God not only judges the actions of a man, but he judges the intents.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: He tells us that in the Old Testament.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: He said, God looks upon the heart.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you can still go to church and be living in sin.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can not cut your hair and not wear jewelry and not wear makeup and still be living in sin because you're doing it begrudgingly.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't the Bible say that?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So what becomes the standard now?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Paul's central concern, I think, is that the outward display must never replace modesty, good judgment, or the genuine general uh godliness in a person.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, let's look over, and when I talk about taking things literal, if we're going to take uh 1 Timothy 2 not literal, then we've got to go over to 1 Peter 3, 3, and 4 and take that literal.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, here's what Peter said.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Whose adorning, let it not be that outward adorning of the plaiding of the hair and the wearing of gold were good so far, they line up, or of the putting on of apparel.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: But let it be the hidden man in the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of a great price.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Did you pick up on that?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: If we're gonna take Paul's literal, then we've got to take what Peter said literal.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And Peter said, Don't adorn the plating of your hair, don't wear gold, and don't put on apparel.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: That creates a major problem.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now we've just created a nudist colony because we're not putting on apparel if we take it literal.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if we take everything literal, there's the problem you run into.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that Paul or Peter is saying you never wear gold, you never cut your hair, you never fix your hair, you never wear makeup, you never put on expensive expensive clothing.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's saying those things should not be what defines you.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: The the the gold uh earrings, they don't define you.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: The gold uh uh or the uh the the the nice hair or or the the makeup on your face, that doesn't define you.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: It it should only uh in uh be an uh an adornment uh to to to I guess maybe um to help you throughout the day.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I would say I don't wear makeup, so I don't know what makeup does.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it does something with wrinkles and and things of that nature.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't wear makeup.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we if we take it literal, we gotta take it literal.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that becomes a very impossible parallel passage to to uh coordinate with.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: But now you go back, let's go Old Testament.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to what old testament says.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Ezekiel 16, 11 through 13.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: God saying this now, remind you.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: God's saying this.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I deck thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain around thy neck, and I put jewelry on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon our head.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes into verse 13 and says, Thou uh, thus was thou decked with gold and silver.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And in verse 14, God says that her beauty was perfect through his own comeliness, which he placed upon her.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So God put his beauty upon someone in the old testament with the gold and the silver and the platinum.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now we know that God was was talking um uh in a in a prophetic picture, but why would he use a sinful object if if it was so sinful, why would he describe it as a prophetic picture of his comeliness and his beauty?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: He says he is the gold, he is those things.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that brings us back to what Paul was saying.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Paul is saying it's not the gold that you're wearing, it's God in your heart.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: He's not he's not saying don't wear those things.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: He's saying those things aren't you, those things aren't your comeliness, those things aren't your godliness.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: That God is the the one inside you is who should be your comeliness.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not that you shouldn't ever wear, or as Peter said, don't ever wear clothes.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's not right.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: We must be separated, yes.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: We must be separate and and having God as our leader.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think that golden haircut has anything to do with it.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: But we could go on and um we could look at a couple other older testament passages where Abraham's servant uh gives Rebecca uh gold earrings and bracelets over in Genesis 24.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we could look at that, but you see where the problem comes in when you start doing this, when you start taking man-made things and trying to you know wrap God in it somehow?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And this would be my question.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just one one last, I guess, little thing that I saw in this video.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: These men, if you saw them up on the stage, all in their very nice expensive suits um are telling their women that they shouldn't wear and do things that are expensive to adorn themselves.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that to me does not line up.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the man can go out and buy his expensive three-piece suit.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: The man can uh make himself look good.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the woman you better have on your modest homemade dress.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: You better go buy to you know go to the clearance section.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: You you better uh buy the most uh homely looking dress you can because you don't draw attention to yourself, but we as men will do all of our peacocking with all of our suits on and everything.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll we'll bring all the antics in.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: We'll make sure that everybody looks at us, but not you women.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know your place.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: You shut up, sit over there on the side.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Don't like that.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Whether I like it or not, it doesn't matter again.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the Bible says that.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think God has a had a a place in his heart for women.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: When he made Eve, he said it was good.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was the epitome of his handiwork.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: He uh conveyed forgiveness to the adulterous woman by drawing in the sand.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: He brought the women in and to his core, the women all throughout Christ's journey.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Go read the book of Mark, and you'll find that there was only a few people who never left his side.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And most of them were women, and the other was John.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Those women never left his side.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think he has a special place in his heart for the women.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think there's any any chance in the world that the God of the Bible that I read and the savior of the Bible that I read would tell a woman to walk around and to look uh look like you are miserable.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's what most do whenever they are forced to dress that way.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I know they're gonna say, No, I choose to do this.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you choose to do that?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this uh what you're choosing to do because a man-made system tells you you have to?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's not what the Bible says.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: We'll look at more of this when we come back together again.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this is a help to you or not.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it is, maybe it's not, and I'm sure in the comments section we'll get plenty of reaction to that.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but if you're a lady out there, don't worry.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Keep your wedding rings on.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Grace and peace to you from the Baptist Church.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us today on Seeking Approval.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, our faith oftentimes grows in quiet places.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hope today's conversation gave you something worth carrying throughout the rest of this day.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And join me, Dr.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Chris Spelser, again next time as we continue thinking, learning, and walking together.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, grace and peace to you from Seeking Approval at Gilead Baptist Church.