Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 498 - What Happens To Your Mental Health When You Stop Chasing The Destination? - Thalia Tran

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498 - What Happens To Your Mental Health When You Stop Chasing The Destination? - Thalia Tran · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: These podcasts have Talia Tran here.
• 0:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's an actress among many other things.
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today we're going to talk a lot about your work inside of, I mean, really Hollywood now.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we had you on a few years ago and welcome back.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's good to be back.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of crazy.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and the time is flown.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's flown.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're like a full blown adult now.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's kind of crazy to think about.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like when I started the show and everything, I was like a teen.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I remember working there like something like 16, 15, 16, some more in there.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I've really gotten to grow up with feel like with the cast.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really special.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can imagine, you talked about Muay Thai.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to get into that.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I've got to tell you that.
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, because years ago, we talked about you being a musician, piano, voice, guitar.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Muay Thai is very different from any of that, but it's not.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it makes sense.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like, you know, like,
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: music ties in with dance and dance.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like these combat sports are a dance.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Whether it be the footwork or the rhythm or everything like that.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like musically, if you can tap into that, it really helps with everything.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like I had a coach back in Vancouver when I was training up there.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: and I had another friend who was a dancer and musician and whatever she would train and she would be like, I'm not getting this and then our coach would kind of translate it into musical terms or something like that for her to understand.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it really makes sense.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's so many connections in there.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: How did you get it?
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why did you get into it?
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I had gotten into it because of my character, you know, like I was, I really wanted to type them to tap into the fighter side of her and I think they're, I love martial arts.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I came from a kung fu background and, and I think there was something
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just a little different about the combat sports world, when you're in it live and you're actually finding that there's something that you feel when you're when you're doing that and I wanted to be able to feel that and capture that for myself so that when I was doing my fight scenes and stuff like that that I could I could really feel that and I really do think it made a difference in terms of how much I was able to connect with my character.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: For all you fans out there of Tali is this is strange for me because when I think about you I just think about like the arts like music and you know film and singing, right?
• 2:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this is like a totally divergent path And I'm trying to run my mind around it, you know, and look I think it's a great thing Do you ever want to compete as a fighter have you?
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought about it.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I will compete as a fighter.
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I do feel like it again, fighting as something that I do for fun is very different from something that when you're competing, somebody else is kind of training to take your head off.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you train to take somebody's head off?
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I, I, I'm not doing like any sort of fight camps or anything like that, but you know, I, I do train, you know, as hard as I can.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it's really fun.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I do think a lot of people don't expect it out of me.
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like this is something that.
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: when I have friends, I encourage them to get into it because I think there's a certain stereotype of what it means to be a combat sports person.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a certain image of what it means to be a fighter, you know what I mean?
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And how long have you been doing it?
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've been doing it for gosh, like I would say a little over a year and a half in terms of just more time boxing and stuff like that.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking of work, right?
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: You do have to change your opportunity, or has it open up more doors for you, or has the actual job itself forced you to look into this.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you could add more.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: to your credentials.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I haven't come across any roles in particular that require boxing or more ties specifically.
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I also think it was very applicable to my job in Avatar and I think like moving forward, I would love to do more stuff that's really active and in the martial arts list, like combat sports space, I really enjoy that.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like in terms of work application,
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think generally it has improved my sense of confidence and the sense of feeling empowered in your own self and in your own body and I feel like that's something that's applicable all throughout life, but like very much in life.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I see a total difference.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I saw you today, I was like, oh, you're totally different.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do feel like it has
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it unlocks a part of you.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, when I think that it kind of, and people talk about what combat sports training kind of does to you as a person and in terms of developing who you are, and I think just really it strips you down and strips down those layers and when you're really in it, you are the rawst version of yourself and to get in touch with that, I think it really, it's really lovely.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are there other MMA sports that you're interested?
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you watch UFC?
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you get into that?
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I actually have.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I hadn't previously watched UFC.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: It really was like, oh, let me try fighting.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me try fighting a little bit.
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, and then I got into it and I remember when we were trained and I would go out with some of the girls and we'd literally go watch UFC, wherever.
• 5:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember, these group, the group of guys came up to our table.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, what are you guys doing here?
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we were like, what do you mean?
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, you're not the typical viewer.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like, no, no, we still belong in this space.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, even if we don't externally present as what you might expect of a UFC viewer or a combat sportsman.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And one of my friends at the time, she was literally about to fight, too.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, she was literally in a fight camp.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: We train.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: We still belong here.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's, I think seeing these spaces kind of expand and become more inclusive is really cool.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's amazing here.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really really cool.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think when we were talking, you were still in high school.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you in college now?
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you?
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was honestly really difficult just with the shooting schedule and stuff like that.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm kind of figuring out that part of my life too.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm so happy to hear this.
• 6:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, now this is like, I mean, let's, you know, both of your parents or doctors, right?
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, okay, okay, okay, okay.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've been stuck with it.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, all right, that's like a whole thing.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, so let's unpack that.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're both Vietnamese doctors, they seem really cool.
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've met them a few times, they're super open and cool.
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today, say no, like, what's their thought on this?
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they never said, no, I think that's one thing is like all long-living support.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that there's a part of them that is, like, concerned, do a degree, you know what I mean?
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, they want me to have a good future and, you know, the way that they were raised, is like, oh, you followed this path and you go to school and you get this specific degree.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you get the job at this hospital and then, and then you live your life according to a certain path.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, I've weighed a version of the path already.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like blown away right now and so they're cool with this and yeah I mean we've had conversation about it like oh how bad do you want this is is this a life You're you're willing to pursue and stuff like that and and I think we're still at the point where they're like oh
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: your your your young and and and and you know you have the space to roam and we can support you and doing so and so I'm really grateful to have their continued support and and that and but I know it was a little nerve wrecking you know and I well first of all this was my first time living outside of the home by myself.
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: when I went over to shoot in Vancouver again, because I was in the doll shooting season two and three.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I moved out away from home, and so this was like a big jump for all of us, and they were kind of nervous.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, okay, what's happening?
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is an adjustment.
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm also like the eldest child, and so they haven't had experience in this particular thing before.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so they're like, you know what?
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just go for it.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just go for it.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like itching and holding back from saying mum dad, I probably make more money than you.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that, that's, that is true, I'm, I'm like, you know, like the checks come in, whatever, and then they're like, okay, this is like a real thing.
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a real thing.
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's also kind of, so for, for the long time, I think I had talked about this before, but we had hid my entire career from my grandparents for like the longest time.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't, they didn't know I was an actress at all.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had been auditioning stuff like that, and literally it took until,
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: A phone call came in while my grandma was in the car, and they're like, hey, you're falling out to Atlanta next week To film a movie, and then my parents are like, hey, so surprise your granddaughters and lectures So it it was something because I already with my singing
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Even though I wasn't doing it professionally, they're like, they're like, no, please get less involved in this, you're going down a path and we want you to, you know, stick to your studies and stuff like that.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: But there came a certain point in time when I think it was really when Council of Dad came out and they saw it on NBC and they were like, oh, wait, this is kind of real.
• 10:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a job and they came to visit me when I was on set and they're like, oh, she's she's working like this is actually a job a career and and they they've really come around a lot.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think seeing something and seeing like the tangible like alcohol tangible bank account.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, I think that's something that I'm like really blessed to have because I know a lot of people are in a certain part of their career where they're not, they're not being able to see the stuff on mainstream television and stuff like that.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because for them, it's like they can tell their friends, hey, tune into NBC as soon as he was in the time or hey, turn on your Netflix and look at this show and their friends get it, they get it.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: But for other people who are in other parts of their acting journey or whatever, maybe they're doing other stuff that's on other platforms or doing indie films and stuff like that, where it's not as easily accessible to whoever and it makes such a difference.
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, huge difference, huge difference.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think of the child acting part, and I think about when you have a success early in your life and to continue it like a decabriel, right?
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where he can, once a year, make a big movie and contain his ability to, I don't know, party and lose his mind like a lot of child act.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think about that at all?
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very interesting.
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess like when I when I talk with other child actors like there's different degrees to which we are child actors.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yep.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I started oh gosh, not like seven or eight.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was I was I was 11 12 maybe somewhere in there and I think that did make a difference because I have such strong memories of before I was an actor and when I was like
• 12:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: a normal child.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not involved in any work stuff because at the end of the day it is a job, you go to work and for a 12-year-old to be working like this, is not typical, it's not a bad thing, it's just not typical.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think there was a strong point in my life in which my experiences began to diverge from the typical youth path and I think having a before really grounded me.
• 12:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: in my personal opinion, because it's like I knew I got to experience life when it wasn't
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: career driven.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think it's a bad thing to be career driven, but I think there is something to be said for life when you're just living it for yourself and just to have fun and just to, you know, just to be a kid.
• 13:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm grateful I got to have that experience while still, you know, enjoying stuff like music and stuff like that and doing stuff that I was really passionate about, but with no professional focus on it.
• 13:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I have talked to other child actors who started really, really young and they hopped into homeschool really early and so
• 13:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know you miss out on certain experiences and it really is a sacrifice because again just practically speaking when you start earlier like that it is a great advantage.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh really?
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well I'm talking to everybody because the pool is going to be smaller.
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: When you start young like that, it's like you're competing against fewer people for any given role.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: So just statistically, the likelihood is higher because they're still going to be roles for young kids, but they're just going to be fewer people competing for them.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so that is, I understand why people or why parents would want to, their kids to enter the industry early, because if you know that you want to be in this industry and you're going to wait until you're older, which is not to say that it's impossible.
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: But if you're waiting until you're older,
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: It gets very competitive by that time people have training, by that time people have been building their skills for years and years and years and where are you at?
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you can get to like a teen and already have a resume on you, that looks so good.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: That looks so good when you walk into an audition room.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think mental health wise, how does that play out for your long-term future?
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it does take a toll on it, right?
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And for me, I'm really grateful I didn't start at that early age.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: So 11 and 12 is the kind of... Well, I guess, again, I'm biased from my own experiences because I was able to have a normal childhood and even starting later, I'm still able to continue to work.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: and there are people who started later who weren't able to get a chance to work.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure for those people, they were like, oh man, I regret and I wish I could have started earlier.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's just always, it's very individual.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very much also, I think we need to center what the child feels.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like at that time, I felt like I wanted to do it.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was ready.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: My parents had never pushed me into any of this.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is all like 100% I wanted to do this.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: difference.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember there was a point in time when I was like studying music and stuff like that and I was like I want to quit.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to quit music.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to quit piano.
• 15:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just tired and I had talked to my parents about it and at the time I was I was very young and they said okay you can quit but if you want to if you really love
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: music, you're going to take a break from that or whatever, but if you love music and you think that's something that you want to continue doing, please consider the fact that continue and can do it right now will help you in the future.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, but they said, but
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: we are okay with whatever decision you make.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember this so vividly because I thought about it and I'm like, I really do love music and I love singing and this is such an asset to me.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I decided to continue forward.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that decision that they gave me is so fundamental to my continued enjoyment.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: of what I do and to my ability to enjoy my mental health while I continue to do this because every step of the way I felt like I've had my own autonomy.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think when I talk with people who really struggle with their mental health in being a child after,
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a certain point of time in which they feel like they lose the sense of autonomy.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that is really like a driving force and what makes them feel like you need to act out in a certain way or you're craving something, you're craving a certain type of freedom because you feel locked into a career that's maybe somebody else is like feeling pressure to keep you in.
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing is I remember meeting some actors who were
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a really, really problem.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a big, yeah.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because even if they wanted to quit, imagine holding that burden of the, I support my family.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think 13 year old, 13 years old, and being like, I support my family.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's the advantage that you have.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, both of my parents continued with working.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I never felt,
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that pressure and I feel like at the end of the day mindset is really such a huge thing for anything that you do Huge I think like when it turns into like setting goals no matter what it'd be it if If the goal is something that you're really stressed about and that you feel like oh It becomes something that you feel unworthy if you cannot complete this goal That pressure builds and it really just takes such a ton you and I think in the end
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's harder to complete that goal when it becomes a burden to you and it's weighing you down.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think when you can approach it with, you're looking for fun and enjoyment and self-fulfillment, I think that it's just so much easier to accomplish goals with the healthy mindset.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's such a good point.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I think today mental health is so it's pushed so much and then, you know, previous generations were like, oh, you're so weak, you know, but it's different now.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the idea of like giving it your best and giving it the,
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: the best product, because our mental health is really strong, it's a thing.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I still do see it with whether it be my parents or other people from other generations, just a little bit of a disconnect in terms of
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to hear you being very accepting of what the seriousness of mental health issues and I think my parents also do understand, but also I think in the younger generation there's a fundamental understanding of where we grew up with this understanding whereas in my parents I think it was developed understanding and in some people of their generation it's like they don't even understand yet, like they, it's a different language.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, how do you explain this to somebody who fundamentally doesn't believe in it and who doesn't recognize it in themselves either?
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I feel like that with a lot of people who deny mental health issues, they a lot of times they struggle with their own mental health issues.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And because they can't recognize it within themselves, they deny it with an everybody else.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I'm going to break out with an analogy.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's very simple to me.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say that at your stage of understanding mental health, let's just say you have a 50,000 word vocabulary for, that's a high number.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say 5,000, right?
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say 5,000.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, 50,000 makes more sense.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: But let's just say as your mental health awareness, you have 50,000 ways to explain and tell people about.
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then when you talk about the previous generation, they are only down to 2,000 words, right?
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you can only understand and appreciate these thoughts at 2,000 words and somebody's at 50,000, then there is no way that they're going to be able to look at you and go, I don't understand why you have all these weird thoughts.
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because, well, because you have 50, you have 48,000 more ways to like,
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: your parents and me were in the same generation.
• 20:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably at 40,000 and climbing up to 50,000.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we had to learn from our parents at 2000.
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're like, at, you know, we started out at 10,000 and in like in the last 10 years, we climbed up to 40,000.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're beginning to understand it, you know, and coming from like, for me, a military Marine background, I was like,
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need any of those 40,000 words.
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just need to understand 5,000 words because I need to get the job done, and that's, so that's where the disconnect is really happening.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But now that I'm looking at my children, they're a 7 and 9, I can see that if I don't adapt to the 50,000 words by the time they're gonna, at your age, they're probably, I can be at 80,000.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're gonna be so sensitive to everything, which is, I can't.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Stop that.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have to grow with that and that's the key thing I think.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's such a great mentality to have the like wanting to continue to connect with their kids on that level because I think that's where I see a lot of divisions or something friends, you know, they can't.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: They realize I shouldn't want they can't talk to their parents about certain things, you know, and it's really sad because there's there's obviously so much love there, but again that vocabulary.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: It stays stagnant.
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what makes me curious is, like, how can you instill that desire in somebody else?
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, how can you make, how can you motivate somebody to want to expand?
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great question.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a great question.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do with my mom.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when she feels like I'm attacking her, I have to sit her down.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have to really slow time down.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: She probably has, let's just say she's at the 5,000, 10,000 level and I'm at the 40,000, I have to sit down and tell my mom this, I say mom, I need to talk to you because I love you dearly and I want to get closer to you and that's hard to say from anybody, right?
• 22:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a hard thing to say to your mother who's,
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: My mom and I are at a very different level than somebody like your age or my kids.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So having the courage to tell my mother that cons are nervous to them now, she doesn't feel attacked.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: What I've learned.
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So whenever you're like, you take the baseball bat out on your parents, like, well, I used to do that.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I fall into that mindset of doing that to my mom or bringing out this gun that she sees in my hand in my mouth.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: She sees like the bullets are gonna fly soon.
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: If it freezes them up and makes them wanna cry and break them defensive.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then, but what if I say look,
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to protect you and I want you to be loved.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what I'm going to say is here to help our relationship and that's hard to do.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's it drains me to do that, but that's the way to do it.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think to make them feel secure and to make them feel not attacked and loved is the hardest thing to do.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense and I feel like that also requires a great amount of self-awareness
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm sure there are times when I'm trying to communicate with somebody and I'm being more like I'm coming at the more than I think I'm coming at them, because I probably think I'm like just speaking facts or something like that and maybe I'm not phrasing that in a way that's beneficial to the listener and I think that's another thing like the way that you say things and the way that you mean things is so different from how it's received.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so people say like impact over intention, right?
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it really is really true.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a hair recent true.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's like the new thing, right?
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now the last maybe five years.
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Impact is so much more important than intention.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is everything.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I don't care what you intend it.
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to tell what you're saying, but how I'm feeling, even if you don't say anything, is how I'm feeling.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's hard to change that until you really change the way that you speak with another person.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if they continue coming at you this way, they're like, well, I'm continuing to intend it this way.
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, well, I'm continuing to feel this way.
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's never gonna...
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think what to get even meta about this is like,
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: If two people are talking, and like mom and dad, and me, if I'm talking to them, my biggest concern as a human being, just naturally, program is like, you don't understand a word I'm saying, and even if you did understand, you're not gonna change your stance.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's the problem that we have, that the other person we are afraid that they are not listening with an open mind.
• 25:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, and I feel like that's also what makes it so scary to be vulnerable because like imagine opening yourself up to somebody and then just shutting it down.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then being like, oh, that's not what my time.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I've had some conversations like this and it's like, you're like, this is how I feel.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it really sucks for somebody to be so dismissive that it doesn't matter.
• 26:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: From there, you don't really want to share how you feel anymore.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't really want to share, like, this can come from a place of love and you're showing love in this way and they're kind of shutting it down and like, oh, we're your love doesn't matter in this way.
• 26:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a really sucky feeling.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: My mom's common reply to me is you're so complicated.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's ever since I was like a kid, you're so complicated.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's true because if I have 40,000 vocabulary words about this and you only have 8,000, then of course I'm gonna be like four, five times more complicated than you are.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember running circles around your ability to do logic on me, right?
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I have to calibrate myself and say, look, this and tell myself, look, this is not about winning this argument with my mother.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's hard to do because you're like, you know, my blood sugars have gone through the roof when I'm like, are you with them?
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's hard.
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're just living in a day and age where it's not that we're softer or weaker than the previous generation.
• 27:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just demand more language.
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, more nuance than anything.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: More nuance to everything.
• 27:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say about the thing about being complicate.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's an innately bad thing to be complicated.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think humans are complex creatures.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when there's a disconnect between the complexity of your vocabulary and the complexity of your experience, it can come across as, oh, well, I'm just simpler, better, whatever, like more compact.
• 27:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: But really, there's just a disconnect there.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the level of disservice to yourself that that is is lost upon many people.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so when you can get a complex vocabulary to match the complexity of your experience, it actually adds a lot of color to your life experiences.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: And as a level of depth and nuance to everything that your relationships with people, your relationships with yourself.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that until somebody experiences that for themselves,
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: How beneficial that is.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tell it, you know what a trippy thought like this conversation is really trippy.
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you think about how many Vietnamese parents and their kids are not talking or they're in the room and they're like, yeah, the Easter or whatever mothers they branch.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're talking but they're not really talking.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I would even say it's 70% to 80% of parents to kids.
• 28:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, everybody's like talking everybody's enjoying, but they're not really understanding each other.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember there's one conversation I had with my dad that stuck with me a long time and it was like,
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, if you're not getting into arguments of some sort or conflict with the people that you love, that you're not in deep enough with them.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: because he was saying it's easy to keep things surface level and agreeable and he says that that's not true or nobility that's not true like intimacy between people until you can open up and and and show like
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: show your wounds and show these things and when you can both be open about that and that opens up an uncomfortable conversation and it's going to come across as oh this isn't working out this is uncomfortable but when you work through that it gets so much better and that's what true conversation is I think you're so right even you can be in the same room and you can just be chatting on such a surface level and it feels like oh well we're talking we're there
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it is all just so superficial until you can get into that level of vulnerability and complexity with another person.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your parents have been here for a long time.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel like...
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: they are growing in that direction where they're trying to improve their their I definitely do.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I definitely do agree.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember my dad.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he studied like sociology or something like that in school and I think he was saying that that was like a fundamental experience for him in terms of growing in that direction like an understanding people and just being more open minded to things and I think when I was little
• 30:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: me and my mom like the conversations that we would have are very different from the conversations we have now.
• 30:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can see so much growth in terms of.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: of how we communicate and her openness to changing a certain language and to just changing on both ends.
• 30:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want it to ever be just like, oh, I need you to change in this way and need you to grow explicitly and I'm just going to sit here and watch you grow.
• 30:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a shared growth and I think that my dad's presence has really facilitated that for the both of us because he's very much like a mediator type.
• 30:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: person and he's very even killed and he kind of helps us kind of grow through, grow through everything together.
• 31:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have worked outside of just TV, you've done film, right?
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there two filectors, a difference in the language of the two?
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like, well, in my experience of TV and film, just the main thing that really sticks out to me is the pace of it and I was noticing with TV because there are so many different people that come in.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have new directors for like,
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: every other episode like a new director comes in and this when there are so many brains involved and it's just so complicated the more people are involved and the more fast-paced everything is it's like sometimes things get lost in translation or sometimes it's like everybody has to give up something I think with film it was less of less it was more like individual true
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: and I think both are a really cool experience as an actor to get to see the artistic vision of a director in a film come to life in a very damn way.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in a way that's kind of very obviously there's input from the producers and from the studio and everything like that, but it's a lot less
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: filtered than with TV, where it's filtered through everybody at every level, on every episode, every day, it's a different experience for sure, but I think it's good to have both.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Will you ever jump in the game for producing directing behind the camera?
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll say that I actually, I got a shadow when I was on Avatar, which was really, really cool.
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: shadow of the director?
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I shadowed our director through some of her like when she was preparing for it and then during the shoot and then I've shadowed another one of my directors who's also I'm one of our showrunners.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to ask?
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I did.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I asked about it because I was very curious.
• 33:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Especially with such a large scale show, it's crazy the amount of things that they have to juggle.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like the actor's experience is just so, it's kind of isolated from the rest of what everyone else is experiencing.
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like a really opened up my eyes a lot.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Season 1, I remember we came in, and obviously it was a pretty minimal presence in season 1, but we were very much shielded from a lot of the things that were happening on set, and that was an intentional decision by our showrunner.
• 33:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had a conversation with him about it later, but he wants to shield the actors from a lot of the the the problem on set.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: After that conversation, I was like, but I'm curious, what are these problems?
• 33:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: What is happening here?
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so season two, season three, I got to a shadow and I was like, oh, it's at the end of the day, it's really just all the people who really care about the show, right?
• 34:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: They really want to make it the best, but they have different ideas about how to go about it.
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in the directing role,
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: They have to be able to bridge the gaps between this and be like, okay, this is a good idea, this is a good idea.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's combine this in this way and we can make something that everybody feels like confident about.
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think communication is like the ultimate skill of the director, you know, you think about it.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they can make it look a certain way, they can make whatever, but I think at the end of the day what is so like most important for a director is their ability to communicate with people.
• 34:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So will you ever be open to doing it?
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would love to.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm still very early in my journey, obviously.
• 34:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I have so much to learn in that world because it's so much, like, it's a lot.
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like I would go from meaning to meeting with them and I was like, oh my goodness, like,
• 35:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: The amount that they had to juggle and all these decisions that they have to make and the level of detail that they have to get into everything and especially with our show where they were working on season 2 and season 3 at the same time, they were working on all these episodes all in one through a block shooting and they were just jumping from set to set and it was like, oh my goodness, how do you mentally just keep this straight in and going all the same time and and I asked a bar like he was showing her director and I was like, how did you learn how to do this?
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I, I love asking people this question, especially when it comes to jobs that are not very straightforward.
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's no textbook on this.
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can't just follow up one, two, three step and like, you know how to do this.
• 35:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is just so out of the box, how do you even begin to conceptualize what you have to learn in order to be a director and then how do you learn those skills?
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, where do you get this from?
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he was just like, you know, I just did what you did.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I just started shadowing with people, I just started interning and you just you just begin to internalize things.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I think, at least for me, I underestimate my ability to internalize these abstract concepts.
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think everybody can, you know, I think a lot of what it comes from, and again, with Asian communities of being very resistant to artistic and creative, it's like it's so outside of, outside of a track.
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: We want structure, we want a roadmap.
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we just underestimate our ability to be able to adapt to these abstract things.
• 36:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: box, you know?
• 36:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: We can juggle a lot more than we think.
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It starts with this previous generation instilling this belief in us as a second-thirty generation Vietnamese.
• 36:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was in a meeting yesterday and
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting more involved with podcast hosting in the Vietnamese language and there was a person that was sitting across the table for me, my future host.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we were talking about the idea of being authentic to speak about these topics.
• 37:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he said,
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, my, I don't like, here's like some, you know, a much 10 years older than me.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, he's like, who am I?
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have no authority.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm who am I to like, speak up on the topics that we're gonna, I just, I just stay as a host.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, or you are the reason why most of us hit the ceiling because we don't believe that we're,
• 37:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: are capable or we don't have the voice to say what we want in the workplace.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's parents like you.
• 37:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is why it's so important for you to become a not a host but a personality on a podcast show with me so that we can talk about this and open this idea of communication up.
• 38:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because otherwise we're just going to always be stunted and being medical
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's just that we can affect a lot of change by being on the outside and being vocal and believing in them.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it really is like we need to believe in ourselves more.
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like just all around and I think this idea of worthy of things, whether you deserve things.
• 38:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's it's it's very interesting.
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think.
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just generally, we tend to perceive it as like, you do this and this and this and you're worthy of this and it's very transaction and it's very like I like to believe that we're inherent with a certain type of worth and our experience is worth more than we know and we more than we recognize and you know I think we all
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: We all are on our own journeys of finding that and it's like a left-log journey, you know what I mean?
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like you wake up one day and you're like, yeah, I'm worthy.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's really easy.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: You work on it and I think it fluctuates too, like that we days when you're like, I don't really know what I'm doing.
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have those things?
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I do.
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember like when I went to shoot council and I was like, it was the beginning of shooting and I was like, what am I doing?
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like,
• 39:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't deserve to be here, I don't think that that imposter syndrome that you know at your stage.
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's, it's, it's very difficult, I think, because there's like,
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just difficult to conceptualize like you make such a grand idea of this goal that you have, right?
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you put it on this pedestal and then you achieve that goal.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't put myself on that pedestal and there's this big gap, right?
• 39:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I just can't reckon with that gap.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what am I doing here?
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: This was this huge dream of mine and here I am living this huge dream of mine.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Who am I to be doing that?
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there just became so many questions about, like, for example, what about these other people that I think are so worthy and aren't doing this show?
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: It becomes all these questions about what do I deserve and what am I doing here?
• 40:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think what really helped me was like,
• 40:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: At this point, I think, you know, we're all worthy of doing stuff that brings us fulfillment.
• 40:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that I get to do it, I need to focus on my gratitude, I need to focus on making the most out of this opportunity to not only like help myself, but also use this to help others too.
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is a great opportunity and why should I waste it on being so fixated on myself?
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: At the end of the day, when you're thinking, when I'm thinking about all this stuff, I'm like, oh, this is just at the end of the day, just so focused on insight, insight, insight, insight, and like, what can I do to expand this experience instead of just minimizing myself?
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where do you see yourself in terms of the work that you do both acting or behind the cameras in a few years?
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you contemplate is there like a path that you've plotted or charted for yourself?
• 41:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think.
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have general ideas, like I would love to continue expanding the type of work that I do.
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And by that, I mean, just like, I've gotten to double in many different genres and many different types of roles, and I would like to continue expanding upon that and getting to experience lots of different experiences and get to live different lives, their right characters, and maybe even get to diverge into more of the behind-the-camera work and all that stuff, and just get to overall broaden my horizons.
• 41:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think what it comes to plotting out specific things.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, there's a very popular concept of vision boarding now, right, and, and I've thought about it and I've had some experiences with it, but I don't like attaching myself to very specific ideas of things that I want.
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, this is my own personal philosophy on it, but I feel like, for example, if I say, I want role A and I must get role A and on the surface I'm like, wow, this is great motivation for me to get role A, but then
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: What if I don't get it?
• 42:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's very, very crushing to me.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then I was like, oh my god, I have to do all this mental work about what it means for me to not get that.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't want to get myself super attached a very specific idea of what I want.
• 42:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because why do I want this?
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: What do I want out of this specific experience?
• 42:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want it this role because I wanted to be able to play this set of character traits.
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted this role because it would open these specific doors for me.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted this role because I wanted this specific type of experience.
• 42:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, okay, so I can generalize that and figure out what I fundamentally want.
• 42:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can set.
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: not only more attainable goals for myself, but just bring myself more fulfillment through that.
• 42:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because if I narrow my vision like that, what if I get a role that is fulfilling for me in that same way?
• 42:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I just don't recognize it because it's not just a match with what I had written on my vision.
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't you figure that out?
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was a lot of a lot of looking back on my journey and looking back on the way that I've learned to deal with rejection.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: because I've come to a place where I'm quite good at dealing with the rejections from everything, because as an actor, you have to be able to deal with rejections.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I realized this is applicable to many points in my life.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: There are so many things I'm less scared of because I've gotten the chance to deal with all these rejections through acting.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, so what has changed my mindset to allow me to grow in this way?
• 43:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I don't get very attached to specific things.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, I, I, I latch on to the idea of, I'm chasing a certain type of, uh, of fulfillment for myself and I'm like, so where can I find that fulfillment?
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so in the end of the day, you, you're, you're looking to find this fulfillment and multiple places and the more that you look for it, the more you're going to find it, if you're only looking for one specific thing.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be hard to find, it's finally like a needle in a haystack.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: But if you're looking for like, oh, this type of thing, just open your mind to ideas of like, these are all the things that could bring me fulfillment.
• 44:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have to be attached to any specific idea.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's, it's a lot of reworking.
• 44:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what has happened until now and kind of doing self-evaluations?
• 44:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what has changed my mindset?
• 44:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: What has worked for me, what has not worked for me?
• 44:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: What has brought me joy?
• 44:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's kind of how I think my mindset has shifted towards like, okay, this brought me joy.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me continue on that.
• 44:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just continue on, it's just like, yeah, I feel like I don't...
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't journal a lot, but I like to go on walks and stuff like that, and I'll just turn on music, and I'll just think, and it's really nice to just sit alone with your own thoughts and your own experiences, and the more that you reflect upon your experiences over and over again, I feel like the more that you get out of it.
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know there's this...
• 44:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: mean you're with your, I don't know, maybe this is just a new thing, but like one of my best friends, you know, oftentimes we can talk about the same thing over and over and over and over again, but we can still find things to get out of it.
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, oh, this same idea can be applied to myself.
• 45:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can think about the same things over and over again and there's some more to get out of it.
• 45:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And ladies and gentlemen, I learned a lot.
• 45:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just picked up 10,000 new vocabulary, what we talked about in this very paradigm that we're talking.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, don't worry about the destination as much as the things that you were kind of like picking up on the peripheral of that journey to the destination.
• 45:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: and getting that fulfillment on an abstract level is much more profound and it's much more there's more of a completion there that yeah, you know, but you know, no, no, no, 100%, I think that's a great way to like visualize it because like
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: and it's shifting that mindset from a very concrete thing of like one plus two equals three.
• 46:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And being like, oh, these are all the things around it and these are all the things that I can enjoy.
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: So why not enjoy that?
• 46:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is why the Moetai experience, why shadowing the director, and all of it, you know, as Steve Jobs said, when you look back on all the points, you'll see the connection.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you can't see the connection of the points going forward.
• 46:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's a fallacy of like putting the destination as the main goal.
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It shouldn't be at all.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really experiencing that in the podcast now because there is no endgame to this, but just sort of here to talk about this today is one of the things that I'm going to be thinking about this for the next week, right?
• 46:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's really lovely like you don't I think we are so fixated on like putting things into a map and getting to a very specific destination and I'm like
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is so life affirming, and it, and it really, and over to your brain, like, after this, I feel like I'm going to walk away and I'm going to enjoy so many more things just because I'm like, oh, this shifted my mindset on, on this particular thing and I had a conversation about somebody with somebody about
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: thing about being creative and being creative doesn't always have to serve a purpose.
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: As in, you don't have to create music with the intent of I'm going to release this in two months.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be the next big hint.
• 47:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to, whatever.
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like,
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Creativity to serve the purpose of self-expression, just serve for the pure purpose of creativity, is beautiful.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's so fulfilling.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, I think, and a society where everything has to be sold for whatever.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you place such a value on transactional things like that.
• 48:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, to create, to create is great.
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Before we end tonight or today, I want to shout out my friend, Jess Voo for putting this together.
• 48:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Jess.
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
• 48:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And where can we find Avatar?
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Avatar, the last airbender will be on Netflix in June.
• 48:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: June, can you say?
• 48:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: June 25th.
• 48:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is season two and then are they going to wait for another year for season three to come out or is it back to I know idea when season three is going to come out.
• 48:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's going to be surprised to me.
• 48:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, but I know that I've been seeing them work on the stuff.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just a matter of the timing and when they would like for it to drop.
• 48:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 48:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You are an inspiration to me and you are an inspiration to the likes of my children because they have, they, you know, they'd mention that and they're like, oh, look, Talia.
• 49:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is going to be an amazing thing to see.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Come June.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
• 49:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 49:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Catherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie and Crystal Tran.
• 49:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at the Vietnamese podcast.