Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / The Week That Was - 2nd December 2022

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The Week That Was - 2nd December 2022 · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio this morning for the week
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: that was. I'm very pleased to say that Robin Lamley,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: the Independent Member for Arra lun is here with us.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Good morning Robin, Good morning Katie. Great to be back
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: in the studio a while.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: It has And we've got Bill Yan, of course, the
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: member for Namajira for the COLP. Good morning to you.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Morning Katy, Morning everybody.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: And we've got Chancey Paig who is indeed the Attorney
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: General and representing the Labor Party.
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: Good morning, Chancey, Good morning Katie.
• 0:25
  Speaker 5: And it's great to be joined with all of our
• 0:27
  Speaker 5: people on panel from the southern region of the LA.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Going to say Australia represents this morning. Feeling a bit
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: out of place in the studio now. It's been a
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: massive week and of course the news that has dominated
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: headlines has been that our back wrangler Matt Wright, presented
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: to the Darwin Police station earlier in the week and
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: was charged with a number of offenses. He is going
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: to appear in court again in January. But look, there's
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: not a lot that we can sort of say about
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: this situation on the show. That's now going to be
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: in court once again in January. And while it's dominated
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: the news headlines, it hasn't it hasn't really given us
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: much of an opportunity to talk about that in the
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: political realm. So we will talk about what's gone on
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: politically throughout this week, and we know that overnight, in
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: what has been a pretty historic move, you'd have to say,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: laws restricting the Act and the Northern Territory from legislating
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: on voluntary euthanasia have been repealed after more than two
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: decades of being in place. The Restoring Territory Rights Bill
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: pass Parliament last night, overturning legislation put forward by Liberal
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: MP Kevin Andrews back in nineteen ninety seven that precluded
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the territories from being able to debate and pass voluntary
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: assisted dying laws. An historic day, there is no doubt
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: It's a profound occasion, Katie. I mean a lot of
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: people who listen to your program would have been very
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: small children, if not even born. It's been a long
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: time coming, and it's a good move.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Twenty five years.
• 2:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, if the fact that has taken this long, and
• 2:08
  Speaker 6: it's been tried a few times, but the fact that
• 2:10
  Speaker 6: it's following got up and now that the territory can
• 2:13
  Speaker 6: actually legislate for itself without that interference from Canberra.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Is it's a land of market decision? Really special, great
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: day for us here in the territory.
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, certainly, I think I echo the position of Robin
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: and Bill. It's a great position to wake up to
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: this morning and certainly acknowledging the work that has been
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: undertaking to get us to this point. And certainly I
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: think it's important to look at the pathway forward from
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: here on now and that's going to be a long
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: journey and it needs to be a really thought out process.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: And that's your statehood maybe. Yeah, I mean it just
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: brings back that whole debate again. I think about statehood,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: which takes a lot of effort, to a lot of money,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of commitment from the Northern Territory government. But
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: that's the next thing on the list. Really, I mean,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: how long have we been talking about statehood?
• 3:00
  Speaker 7: For an awfully long time?
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: And then Redum back in what year was that referendum
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: on statehood. It's spent a long time and it was
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: pretty narrow the vote, wasn't it It was?
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it was pretty narrow.
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: We'd had a draft constitution drafted by Antomy, who is
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: the leading constitutional expert in the country. So we had
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: a lot of the foundations in place, but certainly with
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: what has happened overnight with the Senate in Canberra puts
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: US in a good position to look at how we
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: explore the pathway forward around the voluntary assisted dying. I
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: think last night was repealing that previous prohibition of us
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: to be able to make those particular laws.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: But it restores those rights.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: But I think as Bill and Robin and I all
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: know that this is a journey now around anything that
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: were to happen would need extensive and thorough consultation.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: This is I guess the other part of the discussion.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: We do also know that amendments by the Coalition Senator
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: just Enter Price, Northern Territory Senator, were put forward to
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: impose caveates on Territorians that would not allow people with
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: disabilities and mental illness to access voluntary assisted dying if
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: they suffered no other condition.
• 4:14
  Speaker 7: Now they were knocked back.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: We also know that the Act, the Act Chief Minister
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Andrew bar has revealed that the Act is going to
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: look to legislate voluntary assisted dying within as soon as
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: twelve months. So he's basically said we will have a
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: thorough and engaged process and it will be a conscience vote.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I think it will bring out the best in the
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Act Parliament is what he said. Now, Chancey, from my understanding,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: based on I think the statement that the Chief Minister
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and you had sent out last night, it's not something
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: that you're looking at doing within this term of government.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: The Labor Government aren't looking at doing this sort of
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: too quickly by the look of things.
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: Yes, certainly, look the position first up is for their
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: Labor Party members. It's a conscience vote and that would
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: be the floor of Parliament. We've said that it wouldn't
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: be this term because unlike the Act, we are a
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: very large jurisdiction and the consultation needs to be far
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: and wide, making sure that everyone across the territory has
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: the opportunity one around the education around what voluntary assists,
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: the dying means and the practicalities of it, and also
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: the sensitivities and the cultural consideration. So I imagine that this
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: is certainly something that would you take a couple of
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: years in its consultation, and why.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: You reckon because of the tyranny of distance, I guess
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: in the territory and that consultation process you just reckon
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: it would take much longer.
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: It's absolutely it's an aspect of it, but it's certainly
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: something that we have to do on a bipartisan in
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: a nature. We have to work with all members of
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: the Legislative Assembly to make sure that it is done
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: in a way that everyone feels like they've got adequate
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: input and feedback and the construction in to how it
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: would go out to the community.
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: That's one of those things where we should be looking
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: at probably Strutiny Committee, Legislate Assembly scrutiny community to oversee
• 6:09
  Speaker 6: this like this is pretty important legislation and as chances
• 6:13
  Speaker 6: right to be able to get that message out and
• 6:15
  Speaker 6: get that information feedback from right across our community. Because
• 6:18
  Speaker 6: the territory is so diverse, that's going to take a
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: lot of time to do to be able to talk
• 6:22
  Speaker 6: to people in the communities, the people in the urban
• 6:25
  Speaker 6: centers and get that feedback and get their understanding.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the positions are of the people
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: in the labor caucus at the moment. Certainly in the
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: last parliament it was pretty obvious that voluntary euthanasia didn't
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: have the support of the Labor caucus, so I think
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: that's probably a factory and why they're pushing it out
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: into the next parliament. Labor probably don't have support within
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: their caucus for it. You know, I'm no fan of
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: voluntary euthanasia, and I think, you know, politically, to bring
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: it on before the next when you don't have the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: support within your own caucus or for the COORP in
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: their own wing, would be pretty stupid. So I suspect
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: that that's one of the reasons why the Chief Ministers
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: said that they won't bring it on until the next election.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, if the Act can bring it on in
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the next couple of years, then theoretically so could we.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's one of those really sensitive issues
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: and I know a lot of Aboriginal people are very
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: fearful of it, so you know, politically, it might not
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: be in the best interests of the Labor government to
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: bring it on before the next election.
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: For that reason, I certainly acknowledged Roman's comments. I feel
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: like we're in a good position. But again I think
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: that the Act is such a small jurisdiction and as an.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: Average small one, yeah, but not in land size.
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: As an Aboriginal person, I would want to make sure
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: that we had gone out to every single corner of
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: the Northern territory and consulted with people. And I just
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: certainly think that this is not something that we want
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: to rush.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: The last referendum was in ninety eight. I just looked
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: it up, so it was a year after it was
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: thrown out of our voluntary euthanasia laws were thrown out
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: by the federal government, So that was pretty quick to
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: bring up a referendum within twelve to eighteen months after
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: that happened. This is a hot potato, you know. I
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: think even though most of the other states, or if
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: not all the other states, have passed voluntary euthanasia laws,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: I think for the territory it's a different kettle of fish.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: We've got a very large proportion of Aboriginal people, as
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I say, a lot of them very religious, and I
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: don't know that they would be very supportive of this.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of suspicion around anything like this for
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: white and black, so it's potentially very very divisive.
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think we have seen how that can
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: play out. Last term. I think it was the IRU
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: four eight six. Yeah, a debate that we had and again.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: That wasn't a conscience vote was these are very sensitive.
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: These are very sensitive issues.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: So it has to be real education process and I
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: get it. I'd certainly take on board you know what
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: you're saying, Chancey in that space, and I do take
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: on board. But what you're saying as well, Robin, in
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: terms of it being you know, it is a political
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: hot potato and it's probably not a real politically a
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: student move.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: They might want to be bringing in just before an election.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Works so well.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: For the anti discrimination bill that was brought through Parliament
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: last week, that should have been a conscience vote too.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: There were lots of things in that bill that are
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: about values and beliefs deep to all of us. Labor
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: wouldn't give their members a conscience vote, and a lot
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: of those Labor members that clearly didn't agree with aspects
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: of that bill were not allowed to have a conscience vote.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: So you know, this is where you know, people listening
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: keep an eye on this because Labor play tricks around
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: this sort of stuff. They look to push through their
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: own social agendas social engineering.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: We've always had a position where issues around life and
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: death are conscience votes and that's wh this will be
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: for the party should it ever get to the Legislative
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: Assembly following rigorous consultation.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Well, look, we might take a very short break. There
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: is a lot to discuss this week. There always is
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: when Parliament sits, so we'll take a very quick break.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: You are listening to mix one oh four nine's three sixty.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: It is the week that was. If you've just joined
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: us well in the studio this morning, Central Australia, well
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: and truly representing.
• 10:22
  Speaker 7: We've got Chancey Paik.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: We've also got Bill Yan and Robin Lamley in the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: studio this morning, and we know that there has been
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: a lot happen really in the last two weeks of
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: parliamentary sittings. They ended yesterday and this week the Northern
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Territory became the first Australian state or territory to raise
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: the age of criminal responsibility after what has been described
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: as very extensive debate in parliament. I know that the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: government pushed to raise the age from ten to twelve
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: in parliament. Chancey Paike, of course, issuing a statement throughout
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the week saying that it means children aged eleven years
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: or younger will not be criminal responsible for their behavior
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: and will instead be referred to intervention and family support programs.
• 11:07
  Speaker 7: So there's no doubt.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: That this legislation has caused a lot of people to
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: have very differing opinions. I'm sure that absolutely everybody in
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: this room's probably got quite differing opinions because as we're
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: doing this in Parliament, we know that the Northern Territory
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: is realistically been battling what can only be described I
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: think as a crime.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Crisis, definitely, and it's spreading right across the Northern Territory.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I think down in Allice Springs we've been seeing it
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: blow out escalade for many years. But Katie, in an
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: ideal world, we don't have child criminals, we don't have
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: children that are abused and neglected, roaming the streets at
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: nine and getting up to mischief. But that's far from
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: the reality of where we are in the Northern Territory.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: So I think the timing is all wrong. I think
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: after you reduce crime, you consider something like this. No
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: one wants to see kids locked up, but we have
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: children on the streets doing all sorts of despicable things
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: that are making people's lives a misery. And there has
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: to be consequences. And I only think back into my
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: own childhood and rearing children. There has to be consequences
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: for behavior, and this legislation has taken away all consequences.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Look, I've got a child that is eleven years old,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: and I've got to tell you that she does know
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: right from wrong. I do believe that she knows right
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: from wrong. And you know, I will say that I like, obviously,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: she's very fortunate to grow up in a household where
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: you know where I am there keeping a close eye
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: on her. She's got a safe place to go, she's
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: got you know, she's got family that cares for her.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And I know that everybody's personal situation is indeed incredibly different.
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: And I like, I agree.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think we want a situation where kids are
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: being locked up in jail. And my understanding is that
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: it is a very small proportion that do actually go
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: into detention under the age of twelve years old. But
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: the big thing for me, I think, is that I
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: want to know that there are those programs in place
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and that there are measures in place that if you
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: have got young people that are on track in offending
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and doing the wrong thing, that you know that we've
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: got programs and we've got initiatives to be able to
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: not only get them off that track, but also for
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: there to be consequences if there have been incredibly bad actions.
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: There's a couple of worrying parts about this, Kadie, and
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: changing age criminal responsibility is not going to reduce crime.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: In effect, that's not going to change.
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: We're still going to see those issues, particularly in Central Australia.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: But my concern is that.
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: With not being able to be charged under twelve years old,
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: and there's no direction from a court to be able
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: to send someone to do a program or take part
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: in an intervention.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: Of some kind.
• 14:04
  Speaker 6: Now I agree with Robin we shouldn't be putting kids
• 14:07
  Speaker 6: that young intered detention on the first one to say that,
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: and I said, I've been witnessed to that during my
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: old career. But it gets to a point if you
• 14:15
  Speaker 6: have kids that are doing bad things. Sadly, if they're
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: doing bad things and they're escalating during that period, there's
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: no criminal responsibility, there's no record, there's no direction that
• 14:25
  Speaker 6: you must go and take part in something. It's only voluntary,
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: and all of a sudden they're going to get to twelve,
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: and they've not had or not been made to take
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: part in some of those programs because if.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: They don't want it, they don't have to.
• 14:37
  Speaker 6: There's nothing that compels a child under twelve to take
• 14:41
  Speaker 6: part in those programs from what I can see in
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: the legislation. So it's possible we could see kids escalating
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: to a point where they're committing worse and worse and
• 14:50
  Speaker 6: worse crimes, and then all of a sudden, we've got
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: the situation will be and we'll have these kids that
• 14:56
  Speaker 6: have hit that age of thirteen years old, wrap shoots
• 15:00
  Speaker 6: quite long, and they've not had to actually take part
• 15:04
  Speaker 6: in any programs or any inventions to deal with some
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: of those behaviors.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Chelsey, I know that you told us on the show
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: last time you were here, you had said that you
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: know that this legislation or that you know it would
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: not come into effect until there were those programs in
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: place to ensure that the community was kept safe. Where
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: are things that from your perspective in that area.
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: Yes, so certainly this sitting period, we've introduced it and
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: passed to the legislation, and that all commence by a
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: gazette notice. So again I've made it very clear that
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: that'll happen, you know, the second half of next year.
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: That enables us to work with the Implementation Committee on
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: the development of any additional programs and the expansion of
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: a number of existing programs. So my parliamentary colleague and
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: my ministerial colleague Kate Warden works in the Territory family
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: space around looking at the programs that are working and
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: the expansion there, and then looking at some programs which
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: we're not happy with the results that we're seeing and
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: working with them to develop additional programs.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: But you know, I guess this is coming from an
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: evidence based approach.
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: There's been extensive research nationally and internationally, and you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: absolutely we don't want to see children are going into
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: youth detention. And over the last three years it's been
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: less than ten children under the age of twelve who
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: have been in our youth detention.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: So less than ten in what period of time three years?
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: The Chancey we're the only jurisdiction now in Australia that
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: has introduced this legislation increasing the age of criminal responsibility
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: from ten to twelve. So how can you say there's
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: evidence of anything when it hasn't even been tried here.
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: Because I guess Robin, outside of Australia, there's a thing
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: called the rest of the world, and this is where
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: they're doing extensive work in a number of countries right
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: across the world. And it is clear the Royal Commission
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: into the Detention and Protection of Young People in the
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: Northern Territory and that absolutely was a recommendation of that
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: Royal Commission. And yes there are diversion mechanisms as programs
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: and absolutely territory families will be working with the young
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: people to participate in those programs.
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: I want to wrap my head around.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So for the police, let's say, like I want to
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: sort of try to work out exactly how this how
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: this happens, you know, in effect basically, So let's say
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that we're in a situation where a young person is
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: involved in the theft of a car. They're eleven years old,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: they are behind the wheel of a vehicle, and this
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: is this is something that we have heard about on
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: this show before. A young person allegedly eleven years old
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: behind the wheel of a car, stolen that car, apprehended
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: by the police. What is the process then, from the
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: police perspective, so they apprehend this young person. But then
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: what has to happen do the police Are the police
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: able to still keep them apprehended until what they get
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: taken home?
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: They do?
• 18:07
  Speaker 7: You know what I mean?
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: What's the process in terms of the practicality if territory family,
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: if a young person is involved in anti social behavior,
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: the police absolutely will will continue to intervene and do
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: what is required to keep the community safe under the
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: Care and Protection Act.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: But do we consider a car being stolen anti social
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: behavior now? Because it's criminal like it is criminal behavior?
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: Is so the police will intervene Katie to absolutely keep
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: the community safe. When that young person is back in
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: the watchhouse, they'll work with and be referred to Territory
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: Families where it will then go through a range of
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: options and assessments to determine the best outcomes for that childhood.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: And the victim will still be eligible to all of
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: the victims of crime compensations and support systems.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Goes home with no consequences.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Look, I guess most people will tell you who have
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: been victims of crime in the territory. They will say that,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: you know, while victims of crime do a phenomenal job.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: The compensation what you get is not is not much.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: People are pretty frustrated by all of that. But so
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I guess again, So basically, if somebody, if if a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: young person is taken to the watchhouse and they're apprehended,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: kept in the watchouse until territory families is notified, then
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: either taken home or depending on where they're staying.
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: There's the option Katie for you know, them to be
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: referred to a diversion cam, restorative justice practices and the
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: intensive family supports. There are different options depending on thee robins.
• 19:39
  Speaker 7: Are they voluntary?
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: We have said that if we need to draw on
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: other acts to ensure that they finish and complete those programs,
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: then we will.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: At this point in time, it is safe to say
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: that they are voluntary unless you draw on those other acts.
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: If we need to use the power of existing acts,
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: what existing enable that to happen, then we will what
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: existing acts.
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: And the police have said the police have come out
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: and said they can't touch can't touch the kids. I
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: think the police here after this was introduced a couple
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: of months ago, actually said if a child attacks somebody
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: at school, don't call us. We can't do anything. We
• 20:16
  Speaker 6: aren't as a child that's not ring their parents.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: That's not true.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: Police do and will continue to intervene to do what
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: is required to keep the community safe. They can still
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: apprehend a young person if it is in the best
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: interest of keeping the community then stopping.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I suppose if you know, like for a young person,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: if you're then you're apprehended by the police territory families,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: then you know to let's say, come and pick that
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: child up or a family member comes and picks that
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: child up and they're back out on the street again
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: that night.
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: So again, this is that work that Minister Ward has
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: been doing, particularly in the Southern region, around the places
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: of the safety for young children to be in if
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: there is not a safe place for them to go
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: after hours.
• 21:08
  Speaker 7: And I do.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I did note as well throughout the week that it
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: was being reported that in the next two years it
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: is something that the government's going to review and that
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: you are keen to raise that age again up to fourteen.
• 21:20
  Speaker 7: Is that correct?
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: We have said that we would review the legislation to
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: see how it is working.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I think that's in step with the way that the
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: community feels at the moment in terms of not feeling safe.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Definitely not.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: These are certainly not at home.
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: There's a whole bunch of work across various portfolios, absolutely
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: looking at and continuing to respond to the needs of
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: the community and will continue to do that. I mean,
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: Minister Warden working with the police. There's been an additional
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: forty police in Alice Springs and that is seeing positive results.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I do want to talk about that because there's actually,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: as you've said, an additional forty police. They have made
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: twenty four arrests since operationna was launched. The operation has
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: also seen essentially one hundred and sixty eight people taken
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: into protective custody. They've destroyed two hundred and twenty nine
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: leaders of GROG and issued twenty nine traffic.
• 22:14
  Speaker 7: Fines in the last six days. Well, it does make
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: a question why it didn't happen sooner.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Well, it took a lot to get the government to
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: take this extreme action, Katie. It took two extraordinary police
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: alerts within two weeks after kids were driving dangerously stolen
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: cars around the CBD, endangering their lives and the lives
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: of the community. And years of people like me barking
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: at the government telling them how bad things are. I mean,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: just to go back a little bit to what Chancey
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: was saying, the problem with what they've done here is
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: that it's radical and fairly dangerous legislation that they've brought
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: in and they haven't got answers to the most basic questions.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I had a briefing on this increasing age of criminal
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: responsibility the week before it went through, asking all the
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: questions that you've asked and more, and they couldn't be answered.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: And I'm not hearing answers from the Attorney General either,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: and it's not good enough. If you're going to bring
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: in these radical lefty changes, then for God's sake, have
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: some answers to the questions, and.
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: Particularly around those really violent and really bad offenses and
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: shareley they are committed by people. The young people are
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: committing some of these really bad offenses. And it was
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: raised by Keyser in Parliament and what took place in England.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: It was me. I did a lot of research in
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: preparation for the debate, looking at heinous, horrible crimes undertaken
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: by children under the age of twelve across the world,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: and the one that stood out was a case in
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: which a two year old boy called James Boulger in
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, and I remember this very very well.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: It rocked the whole world. It was just a horrible crime.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: He was murdered and taught by two ten year olds. Now,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I asked the question in Parliament of the Attorney General,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: what would happen is something like that happened in the
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Northern Territory, God forbid? And I didn't hear an answer
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: to that either. It wasn't really addressed, and so I
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: can only assume that nothing would happen under this legislation.
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: I did respond to the Member for Ara lun one cent.
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: Absolutely there would be psychological and forensic assessments and orders
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: as part of those relevant acts, which would look at
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: institutional lives and the treatment that would need to be
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: underway for those individuals.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: But these kids were not mad, they were bad chancy.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: There were psychological assessments done of these two ten year
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: olds in the UK back in ninety three and they
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: were deemed as not mentally ill and fully conscious, conscious
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: of right and wrong.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: And with these changes there'll be no record of those acts.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Well, and look, the situation that we're in now within
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory is that the changes have passed, and
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I think what the community really now needs to hear
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: or wants to hear, is that there are going to
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: be programs in place and that children are going to
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: have to actually complete these programs if they do the
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: wrong thing, because I don't think you have to walk
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: very far down the street in the territory at the
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: moment to find a.
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: Victim of crime.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: It's you know, people are pretty broken and they're feeling
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: really quite disheartened at this point, you know, when it
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: comes to crime. And I know that now in Alice
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Springs we have seen some change come into place. We've
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: seen the additional police brought into the town. But I
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: can't express it enough. And I know that I've said
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: it to you before, Chancey. I know I've said it
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: to both you Bill and Robin before. The sense around
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: the community when it comes to crime is people are.
• 25:52
  Speaker 7: Broken over it. And I think that all of us
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: sort of understand.
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: That their communities are broken, Katie. They're just everybody, particularly
• 25:59
  Speaker 6: at home, is it their wits end. And and the
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: fact that it had to get as bad as what
• 26:03
  Speaker 6: it did a couple of weeks ago for government to
• 26:06
  Speaker 6: finally actually take some action to deal with it. Kids
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: stealing cars and ramming police cars and stuff like that,
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: and not just.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Now the Springs, but in Catherine as well. The fact
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: that it had to.
• 26:19
  Speaker 6: Get that bad, and when we've been calling for action
• 26:22
  Speaker 6: and calling for help and screaming for help for so long,
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: that had to get to that to finally lift forty
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: police officers and bring them into Elves to actually help us.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: It is bad. We're all suffering. And I acknowledge the
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: fact that most of these children that are committing these crimes,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: their lives are very bad too, So the problems are
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: across the board. You know. The research shows that most
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: kids that commit these heinous crimes come from terribly dysfunctional,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: violent families. So, you know, the elephant in the room
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory is always the fact that we
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: are presiding over a very large group of kids, mainly
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Aboriginal kids, that are being abused and neglected, and that
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: is the responsibility of the Northern Territory government too and
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: the parents to try and address that. I get where
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: the government's going with this, but the timing is all wrong.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Get on top of crime, don't turn the rivers of
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: grog on throughout the Northern Territory like you did in
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: July Chancy, that was the biggest mistake you've done in
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the history of the Northern Territory is to allow access
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: to alcohol. As a result, we've seen increased levels of
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: domestic violence and child abuse and crime right across the territory.
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: Look, I think in response to what's happening in Alice,
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: I think it's important to acknowledge that Minister Warden has
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: brought together the Social Order Response Group, and I just
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: acknowledge all of those players who have been there working
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: with Minister Warden around the table to do that. I
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: certainly know that there's a conversation around the Commonwealth contribution
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: for what justice reinvestment looks like, and particularly Central Austjaia
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: being identified as one of those sites.
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: Look, there's always.
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: Going to be work to be done, and absolutely happy
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: to continue to work with members in the community around
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: what those possible options and solutions are as long as
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: they don't result in violence.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I did catch up with the mayor of Allice Springs
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: a bit earlier in the week as well, Matt Patterson.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: He had said that you know, they are quite worried
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: about when the police leave and you know what impact
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: is going to be had over that Christmas period and
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: over that summer period. But then we also know there
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: were questions asked throughout the week, and we did speak
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: to the Police Association as well through the week, who
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: did confirm that at least one remote police station had
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: been unmanned as a result of needing to draw police
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: officers from different locations around the territory to be able
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: to surge up in Alice Springs. And I guess my
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: big question was, how are we sort of able to
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: surge up for something like you know, the Biki gangs
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: in town like we've seen a little while back, but
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: not able to surge up when required in places like Allison.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: It did make me question our police numbers and how
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: things were tracking in that sense. So there's a lot
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: of other sort of side discussions going on, I think
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: when we talk about some of the issues that we're
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: experiencing right now.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Well, look, the.
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: Police only came out, I think it was this week
• 29:21
  Speaker 6: and said that they're thirty five down on the previous year.
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: Police on the ground are saying that they're understaff, they're
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: over work, they're doing crazy amounts of overtime just to
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: try and keep up with what's taking place. And you
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: can only do that for so long until you personally
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: as an individual reached that breaking point.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: You can only push for so.
• 29:42
  Speaker 6: Long, and in incredibly difficult circumstances that our police are dealing.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: With every day, we might take a very short break.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
• 29:52
  Speaker 7: It is the week that was.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: If you've just joined us, well, we've got Chancey, Peig,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: bill Yan and Robin Lamley in the studio this morning
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and there's been a lot happened throughout this week, no
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: shortage of things to report on. And one of the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: announcements that we learned about, well I learned about it
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: during question time on Wednesday when there was a question
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: asked about about cost of living, and then the Education
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Minister stood up and said that teachers have been offered
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: a pay another payoffer and I thought, oh, I hadn't
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: heard about this yet, but anyway, got the union on
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: and found out a bit more is that when everyone
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: else learned about it.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Too, well I did too.
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: I haven't really been following this plaster, but it doesn't
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: surprise me that the government wants to just get rid
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: of this before Christmas.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, so teachers have indeed been offered a nine
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: percent pay rise by October twenty twenty three, so it's
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: in a bit of course to retain the territory's top educators.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: So essentially it's three plus three plus three and it
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: is also going to be backdated as I understand it
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to is it October twenty twenty one. I think there's
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: a couple of other added extras, i e. An additional
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: hour of non contact time per week for graduate teachers,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: an additional pupil free day on the last day of
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: term four each year from twenty twenty three, which is
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: every parent's worst nightmare really, the.
• 31:14
  Speaker 7: Additional pupil free.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: One, but happy to keep our good teachers if it's
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: what it takes. And up to five hours of corresponding
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: non contact time per semester for graduate teachers mentors as
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: well where possible. So so finally a bit of movement.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: It's gone out to vote. The teachers have to come
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: back by the twelfth of December. Last day of school's
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: the fifteenth.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: That's a big urban school.
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: It's a big backflot from the pay freeze. Katie, that's
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: for sure, all of a sudden, it's through yes, degree
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: of difficulty four point two free twist teachers. And this
• 31:58
  Speaker 6: is the pay freesers never going to work. We're losing
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: people to other states and other jurisdictions. We need to
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: do stuff to keep our people here and to freeze
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: pays when we've got higher cost of living inflations at
• 32:12
  Speaker 6: a high rate. To not give people pay rise, it
• 32:15
  Speaker 6: was just it was just crazy. But at least now
• 32:18
  Speaker 6: they said the teachers are looking to get something. But
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: there's others also that are looking to get pay rises
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: as well. I know that police fires and of course
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: correctional officers. But where's the money going to come from?
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: Is it going to be increases in budgets to education
• 32:32
  Speaker 6: or they are going to have to find these increases
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: from within, And.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: If they do, then where they've.
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: Got to reduce services, They've got to reduce services somewhere else.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: It's a very good question, and it is something that
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: was raised on the Show with Us yesterday by Beverly Ratahi,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: of course from the to me Men, the chair of
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: to me Men College. So just take a listen to
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: what she'd had to say on the show to us yesterday.
• 32:55
  Speaker 8: Just last week, school ret bodies were informed that the
• 32:59
  Speaker 8: Department had required schools to allocate I think it was
• 33:05
  Speaker 8: two thousand dollars.
• 33:07
  Speaker 9: Per teacher next year in the draft twenty twenty three budgets.
• 33:12
  Speaker 9: Now that's clearly before the revised paid offer. That would
• 33:16
  Speaker 9: mean I'm just judging on what you said. It said
• 33:20
  Speaker 9: three percent back pay from October last year, three percent
• 33:26
  Speaker 9: from October this year. So that's all going to have
• 33:29
  Speaker 9: to come out of our budget, which is six percent,
• 33:32
  Speaker 9: So that's going to be significantly more. And you would
• 33:36
  Speaker 9: recall I asked then Chiefiness, are gonna last November about this?
• 33:41
  Speaker 9: And he committed that no school would be worth off.
• 33:45
  Speaker 9: Now we're ninety eight thousand worth of this year just
• 33:49
  Speaker 9: the admin tainment, so we're going to have to fund
• 33:53
  Speaker 9: another six percent for teacher EBA next year, where we're
• 33:58
  Speaker 9: going to be significantly which means back to the tone
• 34:03
  Speaker 9: to day will be cutting the numbers, having Pogman and
• 34:08
  Speaker 9: everything is this roundhold day.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: So that was one of the chairs of the Schools
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: to MIDMN Beverly's speaking to us about that yesterday.
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: Chancey, where exactly is the money coming from?
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I think certainly, just acknowledging that the vote
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: has gone out, it's got to be returned by the
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: twelve uh, and certainly encouraging everyone to have their say
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: on it. As you said, it is nine in total,
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: three plus three plus three. Look, my understanding is that
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: it's a mixture and that that will come through to
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: the budget cabinet considerations.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: So some of it will be within a school's budget
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: and some of it there's going to be a budget increase.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Do we know what percentage at this point in time.
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, well that'll be those considerations that come through
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: as we do budget cabinet in preparation for the next budget.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Does that make it pretty hard though for schools for
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: next year because presumably it's going to impact their operational
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: courts for next year?
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: Certainly.
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: I mean our Treasurer resource, our Education Minister has been
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: working with the education sector in this space and certainly
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: has been working around.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: The offer that has been put out.
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: We had made a previous offer that we thought was
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: quite a good offer and that wasn't supported, so we
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: went back to the drawing board, met with the unions
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: and have put out the offer now. So we'll see
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: where that gets us at the twelfth and after and
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: then we'll be able to determine the future.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I just think at this point it's important to consider
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: why the governments in this position in the first place.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Freezing pays is a false economy. In twenty sixteen, when
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: they came to government, they overspent twenty seventeen, they had
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: to commission a budget repair report from a guy from
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Western Australia, Langerland, and he said, in order to fix
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: your budget, which you blew out in record time, you
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: have to basically freeze the public service and make savings.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And this is where this has all come from. Within
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: a couple of months, we went from having a net
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: debt of less than two billion two up to about
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: four billion. And that's the context. This is why the
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: government has implemented these pay freezers right across the board.
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: I think the former Treasurer for the COLPS being a
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: little bit cheeky. There there's always been structural issues in
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: the territory. Challenge to finances well, I mean selling public assets,
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: multiple change the bottom line, demolishing very cheeky.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: So look, we have done significant work.
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: We had the Langoland Review which then looked at how
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: we deal with those financial and those structural issues to
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: get us on a pathway where we are looking at
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: our forty billion economy by twenty thirty.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: You overspend and Territory and the treasure that she could
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: million dollars repaying debt per day, and you try and
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: sting the teachers.
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: It's a hypocritical coming from the treasurer who cut teachers
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: wages when she was in the.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: First treasure for seven months and I cut nobody.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: Are still in that cabinet room.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to be interested to see what has
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: to happen though then with this budget in terms of
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: footing the bill for this pay offer that's been put
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: on the table. And I know that you said, Chancey
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: that some of it's going to have to come from
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the school's current budgets and some of it will come
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: from the global budget, which I'm assuming the Northern Territory
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: government's going to, you know, to have to increase in
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: order for them to be able to foot the bill
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: for this. But are schools going to actually have to
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: readjust their staffing levels for next year to fund this?
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: I think the simplest way is there.
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: It'll be a mixture, Katie, And that's the considerations that
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: we'll take through when we look at reviewing and working
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: into the next budget process, all the cabinet ministers come together,
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: view and work through the portfolio areas. This is one
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: that will absolutely to.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: You be cutting teachers. No, that's you will be cutting
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: because you will not provided them with the money to
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: pay for the hour if.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: They are so, if we are basically if they're going
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to be back paid from twenty twenty one Sober twenty
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: twenty one so, and then the schools are going to
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: have to be partially footing the bill for this. I'm
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: just trying to work out when that bill needs to
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: be paid and who's going to be paying it for
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the schools?
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: For next year's money trees out the bag, Katie. I
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: wish yeah that the labor money trees.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: You've been trying to grow one for thin air. I
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: can't get it to flower well.
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: I think the Memba Fara Lewin just goes and sells
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: something to plant another money tree.
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: We're not cutting.
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: I think what did you sell TiO the Darwin port.
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: I mean you've got a history of selling public assets.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: The money laid.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: Development. That's why your bottom line.
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: Which he also looks good. Is because you sold off
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: long term public ass.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Seven million dollars of dead.
• 39:16
  Speaker 7: We are going to have to take a bit of
• 39:17
  Speaker 7: a bank.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: Can count You said that you couldn't.
• 39:22
  Speaker 7: We're going to take a bit of Well, you're listening
• 39:25
  Speaker 7: to Mixed one O four nine. Let's take a very
• 39:27
  Speaker 7: quick break and we'll be back very shortly right here
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: on Mix. Well, it is just about time for us
• 39:33
  Speaker 7: to wrap up.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: But earlier in the week the discussion was well and
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: truly dominated by fishing access and we know that those
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: amendments protecting the rights of Aboriginal landowners were passed through Parliament.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Well it was last week and the amendment, which acknowledges
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the rights of traditional owners to territory coasts, leaves the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: industry though uncertain when it comes to access across the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Northern Territories waters. We did catch up with the CEO
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: of the Seafood Council, the CEO of a FA, and
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: we also spoke to the president of king Ashbay Fishing Club,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: who all raised concerns about access and where things are
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: at as we head into twenty twenty three. Bill, I
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: know you've joined us on the show about this before
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: and you had some concerns around Shady Camp.
• 40:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, look, there's a lot of issues and uncertainly around
• 40:19
  Speaker 6: access at the moment cater. The changes of the Fisheries
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: Act are there to acknowledge the rights and the connection
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: of Aboriginal people to waters and coasts and resources. And
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: I get that and we support that, we understand that.
• 40:32
  Speaker 6: But those changes now go across all waterways across the territory.
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: But the bigger issue that's facing people is that uncertainty
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: of access, and that sits around the Blue Mud Bay
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: decision and all the land claims are still sitting there outstanding,
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: and the big one that came out with Shady Camp,
• 40:50
  Speaker 6: which was particularly the Lands Commissioner made that statement and
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: report that the only sporadic use of the ramp and
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: barrage at Shady Camp, which is absolutely ludicrous. There. I've
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: seen pictures of boats, like hundreds of boats lined up.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: To get into the water there at Shady Camp now.
• 41:08
  Speaker 6: And the Lands Commissioner actually stated a day from af
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: hand that she was felt like just giving the grant
• 41:15
  Speaker 6: or granting the land claim without taking into consideration what
• 41:20
  Speaker 6: the territory government might actually say. But that goes across
• 41:23
  Speaker 6: a number of areas. King Ash beays a major one,
• 41:26
  Speaker 6: like they want to develop and build and grow that
• 41:28
  Speaker 6: facility down there, but they're now also under a cloud
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: what's going to happen with access to that waterway. I've
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: read the lands Claim grant or the detriment report on
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: that that says, well, we won't include the ramp.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Well that's fine, so you reverse your.
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: Boat down a ramp which you can't actually take it
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: off your trailer and put it into the water because
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: the water that sits.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: On top of that land is part of the grant.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: So that's where all this uncertain is coming around.
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: And it's crossing over into the commercial industry too, and
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: it's starting to hurt our investment into where our fisheries
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: here in a territory. So it's something the government needs
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: to work with the Land Counsel and the federal governor
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: to get sorted out as soon as they possibly can.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Chancy, are we thinking that this is going to be
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: sorted out by sort of early the end of this
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: year for early next year so that people have got
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: that certainty?
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: Look, I think building on what Bill has said, certainly,
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: Minister Yubo, the Aboriginal Affairs Minister and Minister Kirby have
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: been working with all of the stakeholders, particularly looking at
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: how we work the pathway forward for this. The commercial
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: fishing industry is a critical industry and the territory. We
• 42:33
  Speaker 5: absolutely acknowledge it and will do that work and continue
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: to do it.
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it is important.
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: We've got to work obviously with the Commonwealth as well
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: around what this looks like. I know that Shady Camp
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: has been a matter which is being discussed and the
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: options and that are being worked through, but also acknowledging
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: that we need to and will continue to work with
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: the Northern Land Council around working through these matters in
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: a sensitive forward taking into count all those considerations.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Well, let's hope that there is able to be an
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: outcome found sooner rather than later, so that people have got.
• 43:08
  Speaker 6: That it's pretty soon, k because the current agreements run
• 43:12
  Speaker 6: out thirty first of December. Like I've got my permit
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: that says I'm allowed to go fishing in these places
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: that ceasars on the thirty first of December, So I'm
• 43:20
  Speaker 6: going to be back up here in a year and
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: i might be trying to get out for a fish.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: Am I going to be able to go well.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: And this is the thing that she was as a
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: wreck fisher, and plenty of reck fishes around the territory.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: But then when you look at those whose business relies
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: on it, it's you know, the stakes are even bigger.
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: Well, you're looking at those commercial operators that are commercial fishes,
• 43:40
  Speaker 6: but then you've also got the fishing.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: Charter operators and anything that accesses the water is going
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: to be a problem here, like the jumping crop.
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: Cruises down the Adelaide River, some of those tour operators
• 43:52
  Speaker 6: that work on some of those billi bonks doing tours
• 43:54
  Speaker 6: and things like that. All of this is now under
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: a shadow and is unsuita near across that industry. So
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: it needs to be dealt with pretty quickly, and the
• 44:03
  Speaker 6: government need to be coming out and supporting those businesses
• 44:06
  Speaker 6: and those operators, to NLC and to the federal government
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: to make sure that they're going to be there in
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: the future.
• 44:13
  Speaker 7: Well, we've run out of time.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: It has been the week that Welsh Robin Lambley, thank
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: you so very much for joining.
• 44:18
  Speaker 7: Us this morning.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Very much. Katie me next year sounds good.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Bill Yeah from the CELP, thanks so much for your.
• 44:23
  Speaker 7: Time this morning.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: Katie, and a merry Christmas. So everybody, I'm heading home
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: and mon't be back probably till New Years.
• 44:28
  Speaker 7: Well and Chancey Paiked, the Attorney General and Labor rep.
• 44:32
  Speaker 7: Thank you for your time this morning.
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: Thanks Katie.
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: Shout out to everyone who's tuned in, and I know
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: that myself and my fellows and cha In's here looking
• 44:39
  Speaker 5: forward to getting back to the Rain.
• 44:43
  Speaker 7: I hope you all have a safe trip back. Thanks
• 44:45
  Speaker 7: so much for joining us this morning. Thank you. You're
• 44:48
  Speaker 7: listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty