Latest / Don Talk - Conversations with Mike Turner / The Silent Struggle of Dads No One Talks About
Transcript
- Michael: welcome everybody to another episode of Don Talk. We here. Today's topic is who was I before I became a dad? So before we get into intros, we jump right into some some normal or foul topics. Alright, so alright, we diving right in this one. have you ever hidden your bedroom because you needed 10 minutes alone to yourself. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yes. Dar'Ron: that's normal. I hey I'm doing it right now. Michael: Yeah, that's normal. I I've I've I've R. Manasseh Thornton: Yes, yes sir. Michael: done that, I've done that, yes. tell your kids you're broke when you just don't wanna buy them anything. R. Manasseh Thornton: Not, I don't say that I'm broke. Dar'Ron: That's val. go ahead. R. Manasseh Thornton: Nah, not Michael: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: that I'm broke, but I definitely tell you you ain't getting it. Michael: Right. Dar'Ron: Yeah. Michael: I I experienced my father telling us I was broke, but he really wasn't. He just reached his threshold that he didn't want to spend spend under. I so I tell I tell my daughter I c I just don't have the money right now. Like, you know, or let's think about it. So yeah. Yes, right. All right. Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. Stag up in investments. Yeah, we can do that. Michael: Being excited when plans get canceled because you can stay home. R. Manasseh Thornton: Absolutely. Absolutely. When both of my boys Michael: One hundred percent normal. Normal. One hundred percent. Yeah. Dar'Ron: Normal. Absolutely. R. Manasseh Thornton: play basketball and when I get that text, bing, and the coach is like, it's raining outside, cancel. my bruh. Bruh. Dar'Ron: Yes, man. Right. Michael: Yeah. Dar'Ron: Man. Michael: Yeah. Alright, so y'all can answer this one 'cause I only got one child. So having a favorite child even though you'll never admit it. Dar'Ron: We can't even a minute on here, right? Hey R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, it's not, it is kind of a trick question because it is no favorite. mean, everybody says that there is no favorite, but there is something different about them both that you like and dislike. Like there's this kind of, you know, I love this about them, but I can do it out this just like anybody else, but no, not a favorite. Dar'Ron: Well well I I I'm kind of the opposite, man. I so th so my I mean, my kids has asked me that before. Like man, you who's your favorite? Just fun question to ask. And my response is who is ever listening to me at that time? Michael: Yeah. Deion's yeah. Deion Sanders Deion Dar'Ron: That's exactly what I say. Who's your favorite? The one who's listening. If you listen, you're my favorite. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Okay. Michael: Sanders ranks his kids all the time. I don't know if it's jokingly or not, but he ranks them all the time on social media. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Michael: Saying you number one now, so hey, Yeah. Dar'Ron: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: They have their days, man. That's for sure. They have their days. It's like... Dar'Ron: Meh meh for real. Michael: All right, so missing your life before you had children. That's normal for me, normal for me. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yes, that's what my book is about. We'll talk about that a little later, but that has a lot to do with my book. Yes. Michael: Okay. Dar'Ron: Yeah, we yeah, we gon' save that we gon save that question like later. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Michael: All yeah. We're gonna get into it. We're gonna get into it. All right, pretend you was asleep when your kids wake up so your partner can handle business. R. Manasseh Thornton: Bruh, Dar'Ron: You try to do that to trouble. R. Manasseh Thornton: I'ma go on further. Cause we'll see, I'm gonna stay at home dad. So when we had our kids and they were young, once she was done breastfeeding, that was all on me anyway. So, but what I have done is that like creep and you gotta be quiet cause you don't want them kids to wake up. So it's like, you you creep into the bathroom, creep into the kitchen. You got, I'm putting socks on. I'm trying to slide Michael: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: if I just so I don't step on no, no crunch and no crack. Yes. Yeah. Dar'Ron: Man. Or how loud that creak in the house, like, wait a minute. Or well R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm like, man, why the ice machine so loud all of a sudden? Like, why? Michael: Yeah. Dar'Ron: Hey, so so my daughter, like if I do that, my I swear my daughter will smack me in the head. Like, I'm like, did she just smack me? Almost like she calling my bluff. And she always wins. I ain't gonna even front. She always wins. That's when I'm sleeping. That's when I'm sleeping. Michael: This is one I took I took a that's when you were sleeping. This is one I always took full advantage of. Secretly enjoying a work trip because nobody needs anything from you. R. Manasseh Thornton: I don't, again, I'm the stay at home dad, so I didn't have that experience, but the couple of, you know, fellas trips that I take, you absolutely slow rolling it, baby. I'm Dar'Ron: Yeah. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: walking through the airport with a nice little fly, nice little glide. Michael: Yeah. Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Ain't no rush. I'm sitting down at the bar with my headphones on, ain't nobody asking no questions. Man, what's Dar'Ron: Man, yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: your... Michael: I've I've definitely as Dar'Ron: Yeah, definitely. Michael: as a single parent I was I've loved and thoroughly enjoyed work trips because that was like a mini vacation for me. Like I knew Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. Michael: my daughter was taken care of, staying at her friends or family's house and I'm I'm partying up at this work trip. Dar'Ron: Hey, honest yeah, same, but after honestly, after day two, I'm ready to get in my own bed, man. I ain't even run. I'm ready to get my own bed, ready to R. Manasseh Thornton: not in day two. Dar'Ron: do stuff, stuff, d ready to do some merry stuff. You know what I'm saying? But like Michael: Yeah. Dar'Ron: one and two, yeah, NAS definitely walking through that airport and just with man, just it seemed like the whole thing is silenced. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, man. I mean, there's a lot to be said to be, you know, when you're in relationships or you, you know, taking care of children, you always have to be on point. You know what saying? You always Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: have to be aware. You're always, you know what I mean? You're always conscious and looking around and you, know, again, funneling questions or, or giving directives. And when you buy yourself and you don't have to ask what somebody wants to eat or if anybody Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: hungry or do you want to stop over here? No, you just do whatever Dar'Ron: Mm. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: you want to do, bro. It's a good time. Dar'Ron: Yeah, absolutely. Michael: All right, all right. Moving on. everybody asks a man what kind of father he is, right? But nobody Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. Michael: asks what becoming a father did to the man. So, Manasseh, finish the sentence for us. Before I became a father, I was R. Manasseh Thornton: free. I was free. Dar'Ron: Who R. Manasseh Thornton: Free like a little bird. Flapping my wings all over the world, trying to figure out where I was gonna land. And then I landed on family, Michael: What age? What age was it? R. Manasseh Thornton: and I've been on this perch for a minute now. Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. Michael: How old were you, your first kid? R. Manasseh Thornton: My oldest is 15, just turned 15 and I'm 50. Michael: All right, Duran, you finish the sentence. Dar'Ron: Yeah. Hey, I was about to say may you need to edit my answer out real quick. Michael: Ha ha You don't gotta answer, you don't gotta answer. Dar'Ron: Cause if you talk about the first answer that popped into your head, that was probably not the I first answer that popped into my head was more happy. Very first I ain't gonna even front, you know. I I'm and I don't wanna get it twisted. You know, I'm I'm definitely happy with my kids as far as who they are as people, but that was the first thing that popped into my head. And that's what gets me in trouble. I ain't gonna lie. You know, saying R. Manasseh Thornton: Thank Dar'Ron: the first thing that popped into my head. the f I was Mmm I would say less stressed. But I was chill. Now I'm R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Dar'Ron: on security detail twenty-four seven. So like yeah. What about you, Mike? Michael: I'll be yeah, like here his Isaac got answered, like I just got truth. I was as I was writing this, I don't know because remember, I just got injured. So I was on my track career thinking I was about to become a track professional and then I just got injured and then next thing I know I have a a daughter. So I'm in this space where I was trying to figure out who I was and what I was doing anyway. And then my daughter came along. So I actually don't know Like before I became a father I was w I actually don't know because I was trying to figure it out at that point in time. So but R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Yeah. Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. Michael: the answer to the next question I could one hundred percent answer this. So after you became a father, I became what? R. Manasseh Thornton: more serious. It was, was, it was, be, everything became more serious. Everything became very much more of a drama than it, than, you know what I mean? Than like that free flowing, it, and not because like the experience was necessarily dramatic. It would, it's just a lot to have to, to kind of accept all at once. You know, the responsibility, you know, the responsibility to me is paramount. It's just so huge. I don't know how anybody takes it lightly. So it's like the moment that they come into this earth, it's like, yo, like this is on me. This is on me. Everything is on me. And I mean, you know, if you've got somebody to help, obviously that helps, but you go into it, Dar'Ron: Right, right. R. Manasseh Thornton: do it, give it a hundred. Dar'Ron: Yeah. Yeah. I I would say a after let's see, what's this? And after becoming father, I became proud. Right? You know, and I get in front, man. You know, most people they they foster money, they foster houses and cars. Man, I know my family's all that. I became I'm I'm proud of what my family has accomplished. I'm proud of my my kids and what they've done. So I'm I'm walking my chest out. Yeah, that's what it is, man. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, for sure. Michael: became driven with a purpose because like I said I was in that space where I didn't know what was going on trying to figure it out. Found I had a daughter immediately went to like all right I gotta take care of business. What I gotta do to set I literally went into what I have to do to set myself up for the next 20 years to make sure she's good. And that's where my mind Dar'Ron: Yeah, right. Michael: started working. I started working towards just that. So that was that was it. Alright, so now we got the little fire firecracker round out. So all right. Welcome again, everybody. my name is Michael. We got our co-host Dar'Ron Manasseh, tell us who you are, man. And you gotta tell us who you are and tell us how you doing. When we say how you doing, really how you doing. None of that. I'm good. Can't can't do that. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, Understood, understood. No Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: beating around the bush around here. Let's get right to it. My name is Manassan Thornton, R. Manassan Thornton. I'm originally from Youngstown, Ohio. I'm born and raised. All my family is still back in Youngstown. I have four siblings, two older sisters, an older brother and a younger brother. My parents, my dad just passed a couple months ago. we call him Mercy. So RIP to Pops. My mom is still active and doing her thing and she's in Youngstown as well. So yeah, I come from that breed, graduated high school in 94, went straight to Wilberforce University. in near Dayton, Ohio and Zeno, And man, I did four years there. Wonderful, great experience. One of the best times in my life. That's where I met Doron. And we both are Alpha brothers, a pledge to Alpha there. And once I left there, I started my social work career. And I've been in social work for over 20 years, doing everything from children's services, foster care, adoption, working in group homes, working in the prison system. everything with being a community advisor, working in between parole office and probation and court systems and stuff like that as well, as well as doing anger management and parenting classes. So I've kind of done a whole gamut of the social Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: realm and just been in that sleeve. once we had our first son, I became a stay at home dad. as a physician. We've been married for 21 years now. Michael: Which is which is Charlie, first of all, sorry to hear about your pops. Like I gotta say that. Like man, like know how it feels R. Manasseh Thornton: No doubt, no doubt. Appreciate it. Michael: to have a parent pass away. but man, y you're living a dream that every man watching this is like, dang, how can I do that? We're gonna find out through this conversation. We're gonna find out. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, hey, they think it's a dream. They think it's a dream. Yeah, they think it's a dream, but there's a Dar'Ron: Okay. R. Manasseh Thornton: lot more to it than, you know, sitting back and relaxing and doing your thing. Dar'Ron: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: Like there's a responsibility level. There's a murdering of the ego that has to occur. You know what I mean? Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: There's a lot that goes along with this particular lifestyle and it ain't for everybody. I can tell you that. It's not for everybody. So for sure. Michael: Cool. Now now how you doing? Like in this moment, how's life how you f doing? no we get a gift of realness. the problem that we have as men, we don't talk about what's really going on and express ourselves. So this is your time. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, I've... never had a problem being connected to my emotions or any of that stuff or being vocal and communicative about that. You know, my dad passing was the biggest death that we've had in our family to date. You know, we've had some uncles and aunts and, you know, grandparent, but, you know, a parent is, you know, it's tough. It's tough to lose a parent. But he was 94 years old, lived a long, fruitful life and was and was surrounded around his blood, sweat and tears. family surrounded him around his family, died in the house that he bled and sweated over and whooped our butts all over and all of that. You know I'm saying? So that Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: transition, that rites of passage, I'm coming out on the other side of that and starting to stand on his shoulder. So I'm good, man. I am. don't want to think that I'm dodging that, but it was a tough few months. It's been a tough six or seven months, that whole process before he died, know, the family having to take care of him and, and, know, we got nurses in the home. I live in Miami, so I'm the only one that's not there. I'm trying to fly back once a month just to do, you know, my due diligence and put my eyes on him, put my hands on him and all of that. And so the last six to eight months have been tough, you know what I mean? And the thing that you have to endure, not only the grief of the, you know, the death coming, you can feel it coming. still, life's still going on. I still got two kids I gotta take care of. I still got basketball practice I gotta go to, even though all of this stuff is happening. People, you know, don't realize that, you know, people are going through real things, even though they have to show up with a smile on their face. You know what I mean? They Dar'Ron: Right. Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: have to show up to this job. They have to show up to this meeting. They have to show up to these things and still live life, even though they're going through a divorce or they're, you know, a parent is dying or, you know, a sibling, you know, one of their children is hurt or, you know what I mean? Those things are always happening. So I'm coming out on the other side of that. I feel good. I've been hitting the gym heavy, just trying to, you know, people be looking at me in the gym. I'm like, I'm exercising demons in here. Like y'all call Michael: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: them exercise. I call it exercising my demons. Michael: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm trying to work that shit out, like for real, you know what I mean? So Michael: I hear you. No, that's Dar'Ron: Yeah, yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm in there putting that work in, trying to get through, you know, some of the hurt, some of the pain, some of the, you know, obstacles that kind of find its way into your path. So, but as of today, dude, I'm feeling amazing. Had a great workout today. My family is good, everybody healthy. So we rocking. Michael: Yeah, that's awesome, awesome. You sipping on anything? Dar'Ron: A men, murdering of the ego. That's the nugget for me. He said murdering of the ego. R. Manasseh Thornton: You have to, you can't be in this. Dar'Ron: Hey. R. Manasseh Thornton: What we do as fathers, as parents, I'm not gonna just relinquish it straight to Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: them, but like you said, we don't always have the platform, but as fathers, man, it's like when you trying to do it the right way, you gotta remove your ego most of the time. There's so many things that you wanna do or wanna say or catch yourself saying that you gotta run back because you gotta pull your ego out of it. It don't have nothing to do with you really. You know what I mean? Dar'Ron: Yeah. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: It does, but it doesn't. It don't have nothing to do with your feelings. Your feelings gonna get hurt. Your feelings gonna get pulled on. You just have Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: to be able to maneuver around that. And if you sit your ego Dar'Ron: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: down, it's easier to be able to live in that system. Dar'Ron: Absolutely. So and like s and and that's for me, man, I have a whole lot of If I was a if I was a the best way I can explain it, and Manasseh, you know this because you know as far as the parenting or even Mike, the developmental process of a child, right? If I was five years old, I'll be having a tantrum tantrum right now. Right? So we know a temp a temper tantrum is just like a whole bunch of emotions balled up into one and it's just like an explosion. Right? So that's how I'm doing. In my mind, my it's like I have a I I just heard some really Like not so good news about, you know, a a close brother of mine, you know, so that, you know, I didn't that that kind of hit me from the left, you know what I'm saying? So, and this the extra stuff that's going on, you know, with with with me in my home. So, how am I doing? Is a tension temper tantrum going on right now. So if I snap, I love both of y'all brothers. I just wanna let you know. R. Manasseh Thornton: Okay, bye bye. Michael: We prepare for. We prepare for. Dar'Ron: But I can I can compose it, right? We got to. We have to. R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dar'Ron: Yeah. Michael: Gotcha. I'm in the crazy I'm I'm I ain't gonna lie. Right this second I'm trying not to freak out because my daughter's going through some health issues and then kid she's of was she's epileptic in that in essence, so she has random seizures. And her phone is dead. Last update was at seven hours ago at work and her watch there. I don't know what's going on. Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Michael: Ain't heard from her. I can't call her. I'm about I do want to call the store, but I don't know. Now I'm freaking Dar'Ron: Yeah. Michael: out, I'm like borderline trying not to freak out right now. Yeah, that's Dar'Ron: Yeah, okay. Michael: that's that's why like I need something to sip on today, 'cause yeah, yeah. But Dar'Ron: yeah. Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm just kidding. Michael: but then last time this happened, like she was like, my phone just died, I just charged when I got back home. Like she's so nonchalant about it that Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. Michael: but the parent in me is like, What the hell's going on? So R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. Yeah. Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: And that ain'ts don't ever go away, right? It's just always sitting right in the pit. Dar'Ron: And and and and Taylor is what, twenty-four? Twenty six It don't go away. Michael: Twenty-six. Yeah, she's twenty-six. So it's like, yeah, she's twenty-six, so don't it don't go away. R. Manasseh Thornton: Right. There's no wrong way. I got a 15-year-old. I'm like, Michael: There. I don't want her 'cause I R. Manasseh Thornton: This is never gonna go away. This pit, this little feeling in the pit of my stomach is just never gonna go away. Dar'Ron: Man, everybody say that. I I'm I'm actually looking forward to being a granddad. I mean, not soon. Not soon. Let's get that straight. I mean, R. Manasseh Thornton: Bro! Dar'Ron: I mean, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. And what I mean is, hey, hey, like like you, Manasseh, I wasn't really, you know, prepared for what God has blessed me with. I wasn't R. Manasseh Thornton: in. Dar'Ron: prepared for it, right? But Man, my grandfather was so cool. I'm like, man, it seemed like it would be cool to be a granddad. You give your grandkids money, you know what I'm saying? You walk around driving a a Cadillac and you got you suited and booted. Man, I wanna be a granddad. I never looked at the dad and said, I wanna be a dad. I wanted to be a granddad, R. Manasseh Thornton: Thank Michael: Yeah. Dar'Ron: man. R. Manasseh Thornton: You'll never hear me say Michael: I'm not there yet. R. Manasseh Thornton: that. Michael: Right. I ain't there yet. Dar'Ron: Yeah. Michael: Hey, bull power to you, sir. Everybody got everybody sipping on something? Everybody cheers, R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, you got that. Yes, sir. Dar'Ron: yeah. Michael: cheers. All right, cheers, people, you know. R. Manasseh Thornton: Cheers. Michael: Alright, so let's dive back into it. Let's dive back into it. So, all right, Manasseh, you got a book called Uncharted Territory, right? You got it with R. Manasseh Thornton: Yes, sir. Michael: you? Pop it up on the screen. All right, I'm gonna we're gonna draw throw a link on here so people could check it out. So take me back to the man who entered this territory, right? who was Manasseh before you was called dad? And does a part of that man still exist as a father? R. Manasseh Thornton: So my wife and I were married for six years before we had our first child. Neither one of us were really trying to have children when we first got married and neither one of us was really... talking about kids at all, to be honest with you. So, you know, was married, I was doing my social work thing. My wife and I are kind of moving around because of her medical stuff. She's going to her residency here. She's got to go to a training thing here. So I'm kind of bouncing around doing my social work thing, but I'm searching for what the next step is. Dar'Ron: Right, right. R. Manasseh Thornton: for myself, you know what saying, my career, what am I about to, you know, push myself into next? And so I had a lot of optimism on things that I was trying to move myself away from social work for a bit because I was just kind of felt burnt out. I'd been doing it for about 17 years at the time and it was like, yo, I'm ready to try something else. So my wife's cousin had just opened up a restaurant. I went and helped him do that and was like working in there from the ground up and, know, kind of just blood, sweat and tears, equity type thing. So I was finding myself in this very interesting place where the freedom of like what to do next was like real. Like I'm just kind of like, all right, man, I can step into what now? Like I was thinking about bartending. I was thinking about doing this, you know, just to kind of subsidize until I really made my way into what I wanted to do. And then Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: when we found out we was having a child, it's like the breaks. for myself kind of like all skirted. Like it was just like a complete, like all of those thoughts just completely stopped. I couldn't even think beyond this child anymore, really. All I could think about was like, how I'm gonna provide for this child this way? What am I gonna do? Like it was all child, like nothing else. And so a portion of that dreamer died a little bit. like the wind came out the sails. I won't say died, but like Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: the sails were up and it was blowing me somewhere. I don't know where it was blowing me, but it was, you know what I mean? The wind was blowing me to a space. And I was enjoying trying to figure out that trajectory. And then when you find out that you have this responsibility for me, it just felt like the wind kind of came out of that sail. Dar'Ron: Did did it die or did you kill it? R. Manasseh Thornton: I adjusted, I adjusted, I don't know a lot about boats, but I adjusted whatever was happening to slow that boat down and focus in on this. Like I'm a person Dar'Ron: Gotcha. Okay. Okay. R. Manasseh Thornton: that kind of wormholes. So it's like, if I'm in something, I'm in it. Like I'm all the way in it. And I'm not really focused on anything else other than this thing. And so Dar'Ron: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: it was like, you know, all child, everything checklists, trying to figure, like nothing about myself no more, it's all about this kid. And so part of that, those dreams kind of had to subside and I just dove into this family thing, like 100%. And so Michael: Any R. Manasseh Thornton: since then, I've been climbing out of that. And now that they're older, right? I have a 15 year old and a 13 year old. They're look, they're more self sufficient. I don't have to, you know, be there the way that I had to for the first 10, 11 years of their life. So now I'm finding myself trying to figure out where that wind is again, to Michael: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: push me back into that feeling. Right? That's where I'm at. Uncharted. I still don't know where I'm at or where I'm Dar'Ron: yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Michael: Charter. Dar'Ron: huh. You hear people say I'm trying to find myself, is that similar to that or Okay. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, it's that, it's that right. The trying to find yourself is that you're walking in the woods and at some point you just pick a path. There's multiple Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: paths, you're walking through the woods, you're like, I'ma go left, or I'ma go right. When you by yourself, it's fun. But when you've Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: got this responsibility, it's like, well, shoot, let me look at this path and see where we're supposed to be going. Dar'Ron: Right, right. Let me let me look down there. Let me look down there. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, let me keep down here. See if this is what I'm supposed to be doing. I would love to try the left one and this right one, but now let me just stay Michael: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: on the narrow. Let me just stay right here. And so some of the creativity, some of the freedom Dar'Ron: The safe path. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: for me got it kind of got quenched. Michael: But you're on the space, like you said, you're trying to find it. So that's good. It's like it was it was put on pause. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, I'm in a space now where, you know, the writing of the book was therapy, was trying to get me out of that. which, know, got me outside, got me talking to people, got me getting the story out. People kind of being perked up like, man, I never heard people like really talk like this before. I've never heard this story quite like this before. and so that has gotten me out. And then, you know, people like you guys, like, you know, Dar'Ron: Yeah. Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: just hearing my story or, or, or hearing me speak and just be like, man, I would love to talk to you on my platform or whatever. So I've been offered those opportunities here and there as well. And now I'm starting to see a little bit clearer. The plans are starting to come in place now, you know what I'm saying? And so I'm starting to be like, okay, Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: let me dabble in this and try this out. And that's part of the thing too, the fear, bro. Because I stayed steady and didn't take chances, you know what mean? I'm always trying to stay, I'm not gambling. I'm never gambling. I'm always taking Dar'Ron: Right. Stay safe. R. Manasseh Thornton: a steady route. I don't care if it take me longer, I'm gonna take it slow and steady. Cause I don't like Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: all of that drama, right? But like now I'm like, I need to try some shit I ain't never done before. I need to take myself out of the comfort zone and just try it. If it don't work, Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: fine. But who knows where you land, right? Dar'Ron: And you even explained to a man, this is like therapeutic for you. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: It was, for sure. Dar'Ron: You said you said it was. Now what about now? It's still it's still there, okay. R. Manasseh Thornton: Well, it is, it's all still therapy, because I still got children to raise. I'm still raising children. I'm still, you know, there'll be possibly another book at some point, you know what I'm saying? Just Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: because, but I'm not done. I'm dealing with teenagers now. I wrote this book the first 10 years of their life, like, you know, from the time they were born up until like 10. So, I mean, there's a whole nother portion of this that still has to be written. And so I'm still learning. I'm still adjusting. I'm still realizing my weaknesses. You know what mean? to just how I parent because I'm still talking like my dad sometimes. it ain't the same time. You know what saying? Like the times are different. Dar'Ron: Right, right. R. Manasseh Thornton: My approach has to be a little different than the way my dad did it. It was like, because I said so, but like that ain't necessarily always the way. especially as your kids get older and start having real freedom of speech. You know what saying? When they're younger, you can kind of be like, because I said so, all right, the conversation is over. But now if you want them to talk to you, if you want to have a real relationship with them, you got to be open and you got to be prepared to hear some shit that you don't Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: necessarily want to hear. Dar'Ron: Yeah. So well yeah, my bad Michael: Now, go ahead, Dora. Dar'Ron: mate. Michael: so your first child, did you go right into being a stay at home dad dad as soon as right in. So is it safe R. Manasseh Thornton: Right, I mean, dang much. Michael: to say that this book wouldn't have happened if you wasn't a stay at home dad? R. Manasseh Thornton: No, but I might've been living in Spain somewhere or something. That's what I'm saying, like, my life would've been different. I'm not saying it would've been better or Michael: Yeah. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: worse. I'm saying it would've been different though. Yeah. Dar'Ron: Wait, it would be better worse. I don't know. Spain. R. Manasseh Thornton: It wouldn't be, I can't say it would have been better or worse. Michael: Yeah. Dar'Ron: Hey, so, so, so, so what part of the man still exists? R. Manasseh Thornton: Man, I'm all of it. I'm still all who I am. But life, life takes little digs at you. You know what I'm saying? It's like a boxing match. Dar'Ron: True. Yeah, yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Like at some point, your ribs start hurting. So you don't, you know, your little bop that you had back in the day might be a little different now. Like, you know what saying? Now you got a little lean when you walk. It ain't that I don't still have the wrist. I just don't. Life, death, loss, you know what mean? I've lost a lot of people in my life as far as friends, early life, you know what mean? I've been Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: almost like surrounded around a lot of death. know a lot of people, so I guess it's just part for the course. But just little things in life take these little digs and little gut punches and it does change you. It changes your posture, it changes how you look at how people will attack and not attack. And you know what mean? It's just that whole trying to accept. Dar'Ron: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: how life has come at you and that it's not fair all the time. At the same time, you still wanna be humble. You still wanna try to come off with the right attitude and the right posture. But life does have a way of kind of taking some of the air out of your sails. So I don't move at the same speed, let's say that. But Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: I am the same, I am most of the same man. I'm a lot of who I used to be, but I'm also a bit of what I never was. Dar'Ron: And bet much better shape. My man, my man in shape now, man. Hey. My man in shape. R. Manasseh Thornton: yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure, for sure. Even Michael: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: though my body hurts more than it ever did, I'm in the best shape I've ever been in my life. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Michael: That's awesome. That's amazing right there. Say a fifty to say that? That's great. Yeah. Dar'Ron: Yeah. Michael: That's awesome. Alright, another game time. Alright. So before kids and after kids, we needed like a explanation of each one of these things, alright? So Friday night. What did your Friday night look like before kids? Dar'Ron: Yeah. Michael: Look at y'all think about them Wilburforce days. R. Manasseh Thornton: see this, yeah, Dar'Ron: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: this is my wheelhouse right here. You know what I'm saying? Michael: Ha ha ha. Dar'Ron: Man R. Manasseh Thornton: Man, I mean, look, it would be, it was classic. Like on a Friday, I would be in a text, a few of my homeboys, what time you getting off, what time we meeting at the spot, or we go, like whose house we going over first to get the pregame going. Like that was the rhythm. Like it was like, where are we meeting? I heard a spot, somebody playing live music at so-and-so, we're hitting that, and then we're doing something else, and then one Saturday, and one Sunday. And that was my Dar'Ron: Man. R. Manasseh Thornton: weekend. That was my weekend. Dar'Ron: Now now now we we're talking about before we had kids and marriage or just the kid part, which we talking about. Which Friday night are we talking about? Michael: Let's say let's say hey, let's let's just st there with the kids because you can still do a lot of that fun activities with the wife with no kids. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, yeah. Dar'Ron: Well, I okay. Friday night, chill. I'm R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm-hmm. Dar'Ron: telling after a long, like like I said, as far as you already know with social. You can be you just I just wanna chill, man. And like I said, if it if it's that time where my wife says, hey, I wanna go out, cause I'm a homebody. I R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm-hmm. Dar'Ron: love being at home. But my wife, she likes to go out. So if she wanna go out, we'll go out, do what she wanna do, you know, because marriage is a compromise, so we gotta compromise. Go out, do my thing, but I come back. Man, I'm taking off my shoes. I'm staying up until my body says, Go to sleep. There is no bedtime on Friday night. None. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, yeah. Michael: I I had my daughter early, so I didn't like when everybody graduated school and was starting living life, I was a full time parent. So I can say even in college I was a student athlete, so I was one of those student athletes that didn't do nothing. I put everything into track. So like I I would go to a party but then it was like by eleven o'clock I'm like, I see y'all, I'm gonna get rest, you know. I will say once once I got hurt, like I started I had one semester of of freedom, I'll say. Was the the semester I got hurt well, two semesters. Semester I got hurt and then I I didn't have to be at practice from two PM to eight, you know. So now I'm like, what does regular students do? I went to therapy and physical therapy and then I had all this free time. So I started hanging out with all the black people on campus. I'm like, this is what it's like. Like all the black people hanging Dar'Ron: Ha ha ha. Michael: out. And they just they bar hopped and then they all ended up at somebody's house playing dominoes of spades. I'm like, this is what it's like. Like so that's the time where I really started to enjoy myself. so yeah, like that's my experience of a Friday night pre kids. Dar'Ron: And and and Mike, remember it was you single parent. Gotta add Michael: Yeah. Dar'Ron: that, man. Cause you did a lot. I R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, that's tough. Dar'Ron: mean, you had you had a a village, definitely. You had a village. But Michael: Yeah, one hundred percent. Dar'Ron: like you you definitely like single parent doing this thing, man. And you did a great job with it, brother. You did a really good job. Michael: Appreciate it, appreciate it. All right, so now the kid comes along. What does that Friday night look like now? R. Manasseh Thornton: Womp Womp. Dar'Ron: Hey, chill out. Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: Womp Womp. Man, Michael: Ha ha ha. R. Manasseh Thornton: somebody got to practice after school. Somebody got to AAU game after school. Yeah, Dar'Ron: Play something. R. Manasseh Thornton: man, boo. Boo, my friend. Michael: Ha. Dar'Ron: Right, right. And it's it it like you look at your clock and like, man, I'm sleeping. It's only six o'clock. R. Manasseh Thornton: only six. I still got an hour and a half, two hours of practice left. Sitting in the parking lot, sitting in the parking lot like some simp. Like I'm just sitting Dar'Ron: Right. Right. Hey. R. Manasseh Thornton: there doing nothing. Dar'Ron: And I just go there to see my kid play. Or I do. I'm sorry. I I I go there, I wanna see my kid. Or if I'm with a friend, I go in there to see their kid. But if they not there, I'm like R. Manasseh Thornton: Man, hey look, I'm so invested. When I start seeing them playing bad, I go out there, I be like, coach, can I say a word or two? Michael: Ha ha ha ha. Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm like, y'all energy is off. I'm out here, I'm right in the parking lot watching all of y'all. You over here walking, you over here. My son be like, dad, please. I'm like, nah, man, I can't take it. Been here for two hours Michael: Hilarious. Dar'Ron: Mm. R. Manasseh Thornton: and just seeing sloppy ball. That's all sloppy. Michael: First. Dar'Ron: man. What up about that bank account? Michael: Bag yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. What's that? Ooh. R. Manasseh Thornton: Listen, Dar'Ron: Okay. R. Manasseh Thornton: listen, my wife and I are just, she just sat out and started doing this new budget, bruh. And my God, it is, you talking, when I was talking about them gut punches, yeah. Here come the gut punches. That bank account Michael: Not Noptax. R. Manasseh Thornton: is trash. Dar'Ron: Well Michael: I have to ask her what area what field of medicine is she in? R. Manasseh Thornton: She's an anesthesiologist. Michael: Okay, all right. So they be making hey, they be making bank, man, because you've you'll stay asleep, you in big trouble. R. Manasseh Thornton: Hey, listen, man, we live down in South Florida, man. This life down here is expensive. Michael: I spent seven years in Miami, so I I definitely know. And I saw R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, it's expensive down here. Michael: I'm sorry that you were stay-at-home dad in Miami. R. Manasseh Thornton: Hey, we can't afford for me to leave. I leave the house, it costs money. Dar'Ron: man, I I I would say man, you know, yeah, you know, the budget thing and all that type stuff, but I don't know, man. I I don't even know how to phrase it, right? It's it's just a you gotta do this, you gotta do this, you gotta do you gotta do this, you gotta do this, ting ting, jing ching, j ting, j ting, jing ching, j ting, jing ching, jing, ching, R. Manasseh Thornton: everything comes. Dar'Ron: like everything. So it got to the point where just for fun, I'm like, what can we do that doesn't cost nothing? So I I saw, wait, R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm on it. Dar'Ron: how about how about going to the park? Like, no, because they're gonna want icy, they're gonna wanna go to get something to eat, they're gonna wanna do this, they're gonna get I'm like, okay. So how about, you know, going down to, you know, you the best thing to do is go to a relative house. Go to some cousins' house. But we don't have that out here. R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm-hmm. Dar'Ron: We do have her you know, her my mother-in-law, thank God for her, right down the street. You know, I'm saying that we can kind of take them to and they just have fun there. But everything, everything. cost right you know R. Manasseh Thornton: Thank you. Dar'Ron: how people say make money you know while you're sleeping with kids you spend money while you sleep it's Michael: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: I mean between the the athletics or whatever extracurricular they have, again, I got 15 13 year old boys and they they they like just right around five Dar'Ron: Yeah. Wait, what size do they wear? R. Manasseh Thornton: and these cats is eating us out of house. Dar'Ron: What size do they wear? R. Manasseh Thornton: One wears a 10, one is, they're both about the same size. they, which is Dar'Ron: Okay. R. Manasseh Thornton: crazy. One is 15, one is 13, but they're the same height, they're the same size. Yeah, they wear like 10. Michael: Hey, once they get to eleven and a half, I'll I'll send you all my eleven and a halves. Cause 'cause that's that's R. Manasseh Thornton: Bro. Dar'Ron: Right. Michael: one thing that I I don't let yeah. That's one thing I don't let my bank account affect is my shoe game. I gotta keep my shoe game up. R. Manasseh Thornton: Hey, ain't no shame over here, my guy. Hey, no shame. Listen, they ain't making these shoes the way they used to. These dudes coming Dar'Ron: Yeah. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: out of shoes once a month, I got to go get some new shoes for these guys. It's unbelievable. Dar'Ron: Yeah, man. And they play ball too? R. Manasseh Thornton: Man, eating, bro. I bring in a bushel of damn grapes. Them shit's gone in a day. I can't keep no food, bro. Dar'Ron: I eat mine in the car. R. Manasseh Thornton: My wife went, we gotta hire some of this stuff. I'm like, goddamn. Michael: that's hilarious. Dar'Ron: man, it's funny. R. Manasseh Thornton: They're killing it, bruh. It's crazy work. Like, I don't Dar'Ron: Very R. Manasseh Thornton: It's crazy. Michael: Grow fast or they grow fast. So has anybody's car changed? Like from the t pre kid to kid? Before the kid? R. Manasseh Thornton: I still had a jeep, I had a truck, but I had a truck back then, but I had some bang in my truck though. I had some, I had some teens in my boy. That thing sounded real Dar'Ron: I read the thing. R. Manasseh Thornton: nice, you understand me? But now all I got is tennis rackets, basketballs and my stank. My Dar'Ron: There you are. R. Manasseh Thornton: car smelled like an athlete. Dar'Ron: I had, let's see, before I had a E320, I had like before like Infinity Coop, like man, I I was I would I would love I was loving it, loving it. You know, giving that to my sons for helping me get that. but now, like I said, my now there's an SUV. Well my wife she has the SUV and I got a truck, right? But I let them know they're not comfortable in the in the backseat of my truck. I'm comfortable in the front seat though. R. Manasseh Thornton: You Dar'Ron: Because I now I did now there's no eating in daddy car. There's no having fun in daddy car. I just all you can do is bob your head to the music in daddy's car. And guess what happened R. Manasseh Thornton: your line. Dar'Ron: and guess what happened, my Mike and Manazah? What do they do? Michael: They do it they do it anyway. They eat R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm about to say, how are you doing that? I mean, I tried that, but I feel right now, yeah, I got Dar'Ron: Yeah, it's just like you just like, man, just forget it. R. Manasseh Thornton: bread crumbs and snack attacks all underneath my seat. I got canisters, man, listen, no respect. I feel like Rotten Pagerfield, no respect. Dar'Ron: Nah. Wait, wait, my my hey, Mike Mike, so you you had you had one, so you know, your your rides have been really nice though, man. It just Michael: See that's the thing. I always I I was like Manassah. I had a nice sound system. And then when Taylor came along I tried to keep it, but it didn't work out. So like I had to get something. I still tried to stay in that Volkswagen family and keep it souped up and all stuff, but I I couldn't have the two tens in the back and all that stuff, you know. But I always I always stayed in the Volkswagen family for sure. Dar'Ron: Couldn't fit the nitrile in there. Michael: No, I I had to give rid of that too. Dar'Ron: Man. R. Manasseh Thornton: different life, baby. Michael: So 'cause we talked about a few a few of these already. So like what's the definite what was the definition of fun pre-kid and post kid? R. Manasseh Thornton: Again, for me, it was just the lack of real responsibility. mean, even when you marry, you know what mean? You do have, you're responsible to your spouse, but we individuals, you know what I'm saying? You got your own two feet, you know how to rock and roll, you do your thing, I do my thing. But when you got these kids, man, that level of responsibility is just so enormous to me. So it's that, like I never... Like I think like Doron said, like I just, I never had that much like anxiety or anything before I had kids. Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: But I feel like anxious a lot more often than I ever did before I had children. Dar'Ron: You said fun before and fun after. honestly, I had to tell myself having fun with my children is beneficial not only for them, but it's also beneficial for me. Right. I I I had to tell myself and how and what helped me is the fact that, you know, it it keeps me fit. Right? You know, playing with your kids. I yo y your kids play ball. It it keeps you engaged. It keeps you moving. And that's what I have to do. So anytime my kid tells me that can we can c can I play? I usually like give me five minutes or something. I I never say no. Unless I'm like really doing something at the time. but even then I'll say, you know, give me five minutes. So I would say the the f my definition of fun Before kids was just sitting on the couch watching some TV and just relaxing my body because my my my career feel, I don't, you know, we moving so much and we dealing with so much, we don't want to see bad stuff anymore. We don't want to see sad people anymore. We want to just kind of have that good energy around. Like we we we got to, right? So even the TV shows I watched had to had to be some good energy within that show. now after Playing catch with my son, man. Like he still wanna play catch Michael: Dope, yeah. Dar'Ron: with me, man. It it's it's fun. It is fun. Like, and R. Manasseh Thornton: you Dar'Ron: and you can just see you from them, you know, when you play catch and they missed the ball, to now they can you can throw it as fast as you want, and they Michael: Yeah. Dar'Ron: just like, ooh, and like so they they don't see that, but we we do. We see, we see that we R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, Dar'Ron: can really pass it to them like they're little grown little men. Like, like I can throw it without being delicate. Right. So just I mean, just having fun. It it is fun to me when my son asked me to play catch with him. Hey Daddy wanna go play catch? I'm like, Yeah. Yes I do wanna play Still. So R. Manasseh Thornton: Yes, I do. Yeah, now that my boys have gotten older, you know, it is more fun. I mean, Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: we're never younger, you know, to play around with them, see them learn new things and stuff like that. Man, that's Dar'Ron: You're like, man, I gotta go chase after this ball. R. Manasseh Thornton: why we had to, you know what saying? It was like, look, I'm not Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: going to be playing with you all the time, playboy. You got a brother, Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: don't do that. But now that they're older, like, you know, my youngest son is into hip hop and making beats. And so he loves going to the record store. He'll be like, dad, can we go to the record store? I'm like, hell yeah. Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Record store? Sure. Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: You know what I mean? And my oldest is into basketball. So watching him develop and do that kind of stuff is always fun too. Dar'Ron: Yeah. Yeah, I know what w with Mike, man, you you I mean you talk about it a lot just like the the what you and Taylor have in common with the shoes. Man, that man when I say they man, his daughter man, I don't know I don't know how to pick out nice shoes. You know what I'm saying? But i I don't, I don't. I just you know, give me some what do you call them them EQs or huh? Hey dudes, I'm good. R. Manasseh Thornton: It daydream. It was a daydream. Michael: Hey dudes. Dar'Ron: I But people look at look look look at Mike, look at Mike, like Michael: Hey, hey, hey. Don't be talking about my heydo's now. Dar'Ron: Hey, hey, that's that fun after kid thing. That's that after kid shoot. Michael: Hey, don't we talk about my heydo's dog? R. Manasseh Thornton: I was just in the thread with my cousins talking about them damn hey dudes. I called them them elderly old classic ones. Michael: I got three pairs, man. Come on, don't talk about me. R. Manasseh Thornton: My cousin was like, man, they're so comfortable. I was like, I bet they are. Dar'Ron: Yeah, don't play ball with them. Your ankles will be Michael: They like I w I use it for house shoes. They like great house shoes, man. So well. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, I can see that. Michael: But I think for me, like it was it was like you draw. I was a homebody for the most part, watching movies. But it was a type of movies that changed. R. Manasseh Thornton: Mmm. Michael: It went from the action, Dar'Ron: Mm. Michael: cursing, all this other stuff to like the Disney cartoons. R. Manasseh Thornton: Right. Michael: So like I went through a period of time where mean that's all I remember ever watching and then when she got old enough and she phased out of it, I was still stuck in the cartoons. 'Cause I was Dar'Ron: Yeah, yeah. Michael: so used to it and then I'm like, I'm sitting here, why am I watching this stuff? Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: Over here watching Teen Titans Go! Dar'Ron: Let us let it go. R. Manasseh Thornton: And no kids in the room. I'm over here like, no, dude. Dar'Ron: But you had two boys, Manasseh, right? So yo was your was your cartoon different? R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, man, well, I mean, the cartoons, I was kind of cool with like, know, Blazing and Monster Machines and stuff like they were watching stuff that I was kind of cool with watching. And like he was saying, just that gradual, I was into all of the hip hop and all that. I listened to other stuff too. But when I had my kids, when I had my first son, I played nothing but hip hop with no cussing. So it's all mostly like Heavy D and Rock Him and EPMD and playing a lot of the Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: old stuff just because it's just less cussing in it until I was able to get to that point where we can rock with whatever we rock with. But yeah, man. with the cartoons and stuff, I was rocking with them. I still watch a couple of the joints that they used to watch and that they watch now. But it was the music, like Mike said, I had to curtail the music a little bit. But they got a little bit of everything. they taste buzz, know what mean? Their palette for music is pretty eclectic for kids their age. Michael: Yeah. I can't wait for y'all to get to where your kids my like my daughter's twenty six now. So like me and her c go to the bar and hang out and go out and kick it. So like it's a whole different experience 'cause like it is R. Manasseh Thornton: How is that? How is going to the bar with your 26 year old daughter? Looking like you robbing the cradle. I know you got a lot of explaining to do, sir. Dar'Ron: Right, right. And you know dudes be looking. Right. Michael: It's it's fun. It'd be like I do be getting weird looks. She get carded every time because she still looks sixteen. She hates when I say that. Dar'Ron: Yeah, yes, he does. Michael: So she gets carded every time and sh and she gets like I'm twenty six. Like but it's fun, man. Like, but here's here's the thing, especially as a girl, out of friend when she on her twenty first birthday, my friend was like, Hey We need to take her to the bars and like reach her limit so she knows what her limit is. It's better to do that around some people that that's gonna trust and take care of her than her try it on without anybody. It was a the most amazing and great idea, but it was also the worst night ever 'cause the after effect of of her I did. Yeah, that's yeah, you're right. She got told Dar'Ron: So you you went you got your daughter drunk. That's pretty much what I hear. R. Manasseh Thornton: My daughter got my daughter drunk and she looked like the drunk girl that I've always seen. And it scared the shit out of me. Dar'Ron: Like can they call adult protective services? R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, she ended up, but he was Michael: She she's a dope. She was a dope. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: like, he was like, all right, baby girl, so right around two and a half, you need to stop. Dar'Ron: Yeah, you got Michael: Dog, Dar'Ron: it. Michael: she was throwing them back. Like I was like, I know she done drunk before. Like I know she done drink before. R. Manasseh Thornton: yeah! Dar'Ron: Yeah. Michael: But she was throwing it back. Like we went to a bar. It was it was six of my friends. And granted, this is this is five years ago. So it's six of my friends. And and we all ev every single one of them brought her a shot. And she's just like and she's just throwing it back. And I'm sitting here like, Yeah, so we so we we bar hopped into a couple spots, probably about two hours in. Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. Michael: We go back to one of them homies' house and she's still going at it. And like I I come from a long day of work and we started playing games and she's still throwing it back, playing games. We got pizza. She's still going. It seemed like she was not gonna stop. So I was like, all right, y'all, like, can y'all take care of her? Cause I'm about to pass out. So I went, I went home, lo and behold, 30 minutes later, my friend Carlos was like, she's done. Like she she started slowing her words, start like like tilting, tum stumbling and this is playing games. So it's like so she said, We're coming home. She didn't even make it home before she started throwing up Then, you know, checked on her in the middle of the night. She's in the bed of throw up. Like it was just constant caring for her the whole night. Cause she got toe-up and then the more then, you know, when she actually woke up the next morning, she don't remember half the night. But she but she know but that's a great thing. Dar'Ron: That sounds like a good night. R. Manasseh Thornton: Job well done, Matt! Job well done! Michael: Like she knows her limit. And she knows after R. Manasseh Thornton: No, for sure. For sure. Dar'Ron: Yeah. And Michael: two or three drinks, I gotta, I gotta back off. Dar'Ron: And and but isn't it isn't it isn't it interesting how how dads we we go by teaching our chick kids. You know what I'm saying? Like we we we we Michael: But I I got that idea from a female friend. I got that idea from a female friend. Dar'Ron: Yeah, but you decided to do it. Michael: Yeah, that's true. Dar'Ron: Right, you know what I mean? Because and I and I tell my kids this all the time, like anything I tell you is for life, is not for right now. You know what I'm saying? And that's just that's just the way we were, I believe, the way we were built to teach our kids how to survive knuckleheads like us. I always call I always call men knucklehead. Ca could be knuckleheads in our 20s. You know what I'm saying? And even in our teens, you know, and we just want our we want our kids, you know, our daughters or and sons, right? We want our son to look out for those gold diggers, right? You know, if they're gonna use you for your money, make sure you know that that's what they're using you for so you can kind of think accordingly. You know what I'm saying? So it's it's just the the lessons that we teach are life lessons. They're not right now lessons. Michael: That's a good point too. And like you can see that we like based on our conversation we just had, we had fun as a non-parent and it transitioned to a different type of fun. Still fun, but just different type. So is it okay, Manasson? I'm gonna direct this to you. is it okay for a father to say he misses who he was before kids? R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, Dar'Ron: Mm. R. Manasseh Thornton: yeah, yeah, man. Again, this is part of the book that I wanted to bring the voice to. And not just fathers, man, mothers too. The reality is that a lot of people, this is the one thing you can't take back. Right? You can get unmarried. You can quit your job. You can move to another place. You can do all of these different things to kind of undo the decision that you made. This is the one thing you can't undo. Right? And Dar'Ron: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: it's like, once it's here, some people regret it. Some people are like, man, I don't have the temperament for this or this, you know. This was never meant to be for me. I was watching a video of a content creator, I believe she's an Indian woman, and her mother and her mother's sister. And she's asking them about parenthood and what they enjoyed the most. And these ladies are stoically like nothing, like absolutely nothing. I didn't enjoy it, I didn't like it, shouldn't have been a parent. Like they are very Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: fortified and convicted in their belief, you know what I'm saying? It don't Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: mean that, you I don't love my children. I don't have to give a disclaimer. I love my children. I take great care of my children. I have a good relationship Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: with my children. But yeah, I think that it speaks to an honesty within us that people want to make you feel like you're a bad parent if you admit that you kind of don't want to do this. I should have never done this. This was a mistake. The other part of it is a lot of people have kids with people they should have never had kids with or circumstances in which Dar'Ron: Ha ha ha. R. Manasseh Thornton: they should have never had kids. And if you ask Dar'Ron: Right, right. R. Manasseh Thornton: them, would they, you know, if you ask them, would they... would they do it over? Like, you know, if you could do it over, would you still have this kid? And people would be like, no, would, my life changed. Nah, be honest. You would have never slept with that guy if you could have done it again. You know what I mean? Or that woman, or you would have never had that one night stand. You would have never done it. You know, you might have waited, maybe the same person, but a couple years later. You know I mean? You would have waited a couple years. You know what I'm saying? Dar'Ron: Yeah, yeah. Michael: I say I say it a little differently. I say it a little differently because I like I said, I love my daughter. R. Manasseh Thornton: Mm-hmm. Michael: I just and her mom wasn't a part of her life. So I wish still wanted her, but a different mom. You know what I'm saying? So I I say it that way. Cause I cause I saw what she went through and still has some stuff linger around today of my parent didn't want me. My mom didn't want me. And as a twenty six year old that still affects her. So Dar'Ron: Yeah, yeah. Michael: I just I don't say I didn't not I don't wish not having her, I just wish it was probably with a different mom that would have stuck around. So your book, you know, Dar'Ron: Ray said that's Michael: based on what you just said too, your book talks about, you know, emotions that parents sometimes don't want to discuss because of their fear that they have of being alienated or ashamed to admit those things, right? So, so let's finish this sentence. Like, I love my kids but like let's talk about the emotions that go be go there. Is there anything that your book discusses that you have f realized that you have admitted in the course of writing this book? I love my kids, but R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, but I never said I had kids. Michael: Ha ha Dar'Ron: Yeah. I told you, right? I told you. Michael: He does. R. Manasseh Thornton: I don't know what else you want me to Yeah, Michael: Okay, I I gotta stop laughing. I gotta stop laughing. Dar'Ron: Watch how he brings it full circle. R. Manasseh Thornton: but this is not an indictment on my children. That's the thing. Like Dar'Ron: Right, right. R. Manasseh Thornton: there's this realization that I have and I can't speak for anybody else. I speak for myself specifically. There's a realization that I already knew though. I knew it before we had children. It was reason I never really wanted to have children. I never wanted kids. I never had a desire to have kids. It was never in my playbook to have kids. I knew I wasn't even sure if I was gonna get married. I always wanted to get married, but I wasn't sure if I was gonna get married, right? And so when I met my wife at like 28, I'm like 28 at the time, I was like preparing to like go into like the Peace Corps, go overseas. I was kind of like. I was a nomad. I was just trying to figure life out. I was trying to figure out where Dar'Ron: Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: I belonged and where I felt most comfortable. At the time, I was in Dayton, Ohio, which is where I ended up meeting my wife. But I was in the process of going into the Peace Corps and doing a two-year deployment over somewhere into another country. I'm supposed to have an interview in November. I meet my wife in October. I meet my wife. I almost fall like immediately. We go on one date and we're together every day after that. And like that's literally our history. Like I've met her, we went out one time and we've been together every day since. And so this thing where like you're trying to figure out, know, like. what you're going to do. We get married, neither one of us want to have kids. And it's like, man, I kind of, we, six years in and we ain't pregnant. Right. And we kind of getting used to our lifestyle. Like six years of being married with no kids. Like we doing whatever we want. She'd be like, I got an opportunity to go, let's go. I can find a job anywhere. So it's where it don't matter to me. Like, Dar'Ron: Yeah, right. Right. R. Manasseh Thornton: You know what mean? We were in Baltimore for a year. We met in Dayton. We moved to Detroit. After Detroit, we were in Baltimore. Baltimore, back to Detroit. We were moving. And then it's like now she's getting older and that biological clock is ticking. It's like, well, if we're going to have kids, we probably need to start having them right now. And it's like, why would we do that though? That feeling, bro, I Michael: Hm. R. Manasseh Thornton: always had this feeling of like, why would I have a child? Like, I don't understand why people be so anxious to do it because to me, it always felt so daunting. And I have friends that had kids early. Like I had some relatives and some friends who had kids that, you know, 19, 18, 20, right out of college school or right while they're in college. And I would be looking at them like, yo. That's crazy that you got to go home and I'm about to go, I'm going to kick it. Like, you know what I mean? Like it was a crazy dynamic for me. And so that whole time I never had an ink. I never had this like, I got to have a kid. got to have a kid. And so that angst that I had about kids before I had kids, I now I'm living, I know that feeling now. It's like I have them and I'm like, this is exactly why I didn't want to do this. This is exactly the responsibility. It to me is so, Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: I think people like you think about it too much. I don't think I do. I don't think that I overthink it. I think that it is the single most responsible, like tough job that I've ever had to do. Being it, especially being a stay at home dad. So it may be other parents that go to work. It's a different dynamic. You you away and you're doing your thing and you just hope and trust that everything is going well with your child and daycare or whatever. But me being there with them from day one, bro, it has been like... It's not always not like a fun thing. It's responsibility. Yeah, it's a responsibility. It's Dar'Ron: It doesn't turn off. Yeah. Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: a job. It's like you have fun doing your job sometimes, but it's still a job. Yeah, I don't have that option. Dar'Ron: Sometimes you don't want to go to work. R. Manasseh Thornton: I don't have that option to not go to work as a stay at home day. Dar'Ron: And I man, and I I appreciate you, you know, just first of all, his kids know. It's not like his kids don't know. Like they, they, they, you know, R. Manasseh Thornton: They read the book. Dar'Ron: and and and I think that's what makes Michael: They read they read the book. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah, we read the book. Dar'Ron: I don't even I don't even know how strong your relationship with your with your boys, but I can I can imagine the strong because you upfront with them, you straightforward with them, you know what I'm saying? You give it to them at you know at age appropriate levels, man. And I think that's what makes you such a good father. R. Manasseh Thornton: I that. Dar'Ron: You know what I'm saying? You know, because and I say that because I always say this, I tell you the truth because I respect you and because I love you. That's why I tell you the truth. Right? If I didn't Then I'll probably be talking about you in my head. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yeah. The other part of this about this book as well though, Mike, I don't want to overlook is that like there is this, it's a multi-layered thing. It's the onion, right? So in the back of the book is the epilogue. And then the epilogue is the, it's called Things That I Want My Sons To Know. And I really wrote the book initially leaning into that portion of the book. I wanted my sons to know more about me. If something were to ever happen to me, things that I like little epitaph that I live by throughout my life, things that I learned from my dad, things that I learned from my journey, like just things that I want them to know about life so that they had some kind of roadmap to be able to like ever had a question or wonder like, man, I wonder how my dad felt, would feel about this if I wasn't there, they would have something to go back to and be like, okay, all right, this is how you handle this. This is what a man do. This is blah, blah. So that's where the book started. Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: the other portion of the book came as almost as a therapy session to just kind of get out this feeling that I had about never wanting to be a parent. And you know Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: what I mean? It's like, know that I can't be the only one feeling this way. And when I would talk to my friends about it, they would be sitting there looking at me like, man, I kind of feel the same way. But they ain't gonna say it though. They just looking at me like, I can't believe you're Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: saying this out loud. Like, that's crazy. Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: And I'm like, dude. Like y'all Michael: Yeah, that's why I never understood the the movie the movie or T V shows where it's mostly white parents that I'm pregnant, yeah like they get so happy and I was like I've never met anybody that expressed that from knowing that they was about to have a child. R. Manasseh Thornton: exciting. No, man, it was was it was like it was literally when we found out we were pregnant. I was like I clocked in was like, man, this is this is it. This Michael: Now now the work begins, yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: is it. I'm on the job. I'm on the clock. So yeah, man, it's it's a it's that feeling. But at the same time, man, I've poured my whole life into these kids. Dar'Ron: Yeah, yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: You know what saying? I can say it comfortably because I know how much I love all my kids. I know how much I've taken care of these kids. I know what I've done. I've been told that I'm a great father by other people. Like, I'm not even on no tootin' the horn shit, but like, people will see me since they were young. see me out and be like, wow, your kids are really well behaved or like, man, like I've been watching you, you and your family just like, that's amazing. Like they don't have phones, like what the, they sit there and y'all talking at dinner time. Like I poured into them. I know what I've given them. I've given them everything I got. And if you know what I mean? Like. I gotta be honest though, I'm not gonna be like, I never, can't remember what my life was like before I had kids. You know, like I just can't imagine what life would be like. Nigga, I remember. Freedom, fun, like traveling, whatever you want and wake up whenever you Dar'Ron: Wait, wait, wait. They don't ha they don't have phones? R. Manasseh Thornton: want. Dar'Ron: They don't have phones? They do now. Okay, okay, okay, okay. That's a that's a whole nother podcast. R. Manasseh Thornton: They do now. They do now. No, but for a long time, we kept that from them for a long time. So you know what mean, buddy? When they was like, know, they first, my son got his first phone when he was like in eighth grade. And that was like, Dar'Ron: Okay. R. Manasseh Thornton: that was just because of necessity. He was going to basketball practices. I needed to know when the practices was over. They weren't always over at the right time, blah, blah, blah. So it was just kind of out of necessity. But we've taken that shit a thousand times during the school year. They're not even allowed to use it during the week and stuff like that. So, I mean, there's just, I've poured into these kids. the, me being honest about my feelings about having children is just me being honest. Dar'Ron: Mm-hmm. R. Manasseh Thornton: I'm just being honest. I never wanted to have kids. I never wanted to be a father. I never cared about legacy. I never cared about any of that. And then you become a father. And it's like, I got a job to do. And I do my job. Dar'Ron: Yeah. R. Manasseh Thornton: And I try to do it to the best of my ability. And I feel like I'm doing a pretty good job. My kids are great kids. I wouldn't trade them for your kids. And I'm sure your kids is amazing. But I wouldn't trade my kids for nobody's kids. You know what saying? Dar'Ron: Yeah. Right, right, right, right. R. Manasseh Thornton: I wouldn't train my kids for nobody's kids. I think they're great kids. But if I had a time machine, my God, and I could clock back sometime, can't say that I'd try to territory and be here. I can't say that. Michael: But we we glad it's here because I I'm gonna have to definitely like check it out. R. Manasseh Thornton: Yes, yes, I am too.