Latest / Project Geekology / Shogun (2024)

Transcript

Shogun (2024) · Project Geekology

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to episode 96 of Project Geekology, where we have washed ashore of early 1600s Japan.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I am one half of your host, anthony, and joining me, as always, is Dakota, and we have to keep our voices down.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: We don't want to be caught.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to get caught by, you know, any of the Japans or Japanese, whatever it was that Blackthorn called them.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: But yes, we're covering Shogun today.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're covering we spoke about it last podcast a little bit, but this is the 10-episode miniseries turned into a full-length series on FX.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: It's based on the book by James Clavel that was written in 1975.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's been adapted previously.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I have not watched the prior adaptation.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I think it was in 1980 or something, or in the 80s.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, 1980.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: But they did such a good job of bringing this show to life.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I have yet to read the book.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I did download it on Audible and I'm excited to jump into it because, dude, it's crazy.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I looked it up, though it's like um of the like classic books out there.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: It's like the eighth longest um, at like 400 something thousand words, you know it's just an extremely long book.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: So I'm I'm you know I love long stuff, so I'm extremely excited to jump into that.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: But before we get into the FX show, before we get into any of that, anthony, what have you been up to, my friend?
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Well, the last time we talked, I know that I was talking about possibly switching job roles.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: At my current job that didn't end up panning out, unfortunately, dang.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: At my current job that didn't end up panning out, unfortunately, dang.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I did.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I did feel a sense of disappointment, but I don't feel disappointed in myself, you know.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I know that I went in and I went in like very well, you know, like I I feel like I interviewed very well and even even though the people, the those that were hiring for that position, they they even took me aside one day where it was just me, me, him and one of the others and they, you know, just to kind of like talk about their, their decision and why they went with that route and pretty much the other person, they had more, they had more experience than I did and I mean I, I get it.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: You know, hopefully it pans out for them.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, it is an entry level role and this person does have kind of some extensive, extensive um experience and you know, sometimes that doesn't pan out well.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Some people that have been doing something for a while, they don't really care for the, the early roles.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Maybe he's, you know, just hasn't worked for a while and just wants to do something, you know, just wants to get back into it or maybe trying to switch roles from whatever it was that he was doing.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: But right, you know it is what it is.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, they told me they're like.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: They said, hey, we, we just want you to to let you know don't let this discourage you that you were one of the best people that that we interviewed.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Uh, especially in in this, in this round it.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: It was a very, like, tough decision and I'm I mean, whether they were sincere or not is, you know, up to them, but, like I, I did see them on webcam and they seemed sincere enough and so they didn't want to, they didn't want to let you down.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: That's what you're right, right right, exactly, exactly.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: And and they did invite, like hey, whenever a position opens up again that we would really like to have you apply again, and I mean, you know, I mean that that's great, but anything can happen between now and then I could find, you know, a similar position somewhere else or, you know, I may come up quickly, I don't know.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: You know, like I, I I do feel like I did very well at least in it, and, um, I'm glad at least I did get some of that feedback that I mean they said that there was nothing that I could have done better.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: They said that it was fantastic so, because that's sometimes the difficult part of interviewing is not knowing what you did wrong, that there was nothing that I could have done better.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: They said that I was fantastic.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Because that's sometimes the difficult part of interviewing is not knowing what you did wrong or what you said wrong or what you didn't say Right, right.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: So if they're being honest with you and they're telling you that, look, it's just a matter of this guy has more on-the-job experience in this role and we need that now and there's nothing else that you could have done then, on the job experience in this role and we need that now and there's nothing else that you could have done then there's nothing else you could have done.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: You did your best, you went the distance.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: So just take the knowledge of the interview, the process that you, you know, got to that point and also, like the desire to expand into that field and just go with that into future, whether it be that job opening, reopening or future openings in other fields in terms of, you know, like well, within the same IT field, but yeah, yeah, no, exactly, I'll definitely, I'll definitely do that and keep everything in mind and what, what I kind of did because, like I said, I did feel successful in a sense and I, I mean I, I did make it pretty far, I mean I made it to the end.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I'll you know, I, I I chalked that up as to, you know, at least a win, that I made it that far.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: But yeah, um other than that I've been, what have I been doing?
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: anthony's doing that thing where he's like looking around his room like what have I been up to?
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I do that every podcast, yeah yeah, I was gonna say dakota does that same thing.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: You know, it's been mostly a lot of like watching shogun, like spending a lot of my time watching shogun.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Um, I mean, because it's between the the time that we recorded last up until this time that we're recording.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: It's only 10 episodes, but it's 10 one-hour episodes, that's 10 hours, and it's not like 45-minute one hour.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: It's like one hour one hour.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: They don't skimp out on any of that, so it's a 10-hour commitment, that show.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I thought it was going to be less for some reason.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Usually I'm used to shows that are like six or eight episodes.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: So when I saw that it was 10 and pretty much every episode is an hour long, I was just like here we go.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: But as soon as like, by the time I got to like I mean I recognized the quality of Shogun within the first episode.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't until like maybe two or three where I was just like oh, this is a really good show, you know yeah yeah, we'll talk about that in a bit uh, yeah, definitely uh that and then and then, um, just really like gaming, mostly you know nothing, nothing in particular.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Classic, uh, look a little, a little bit of wow here and there, a little bit of uh overwatch.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: They do have this overwatch and a world of warcraft collaboration.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I, I think I showed it to you.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, I, I really really like, I really want those skins, but then, like not, then they dropped another collaboration that they're doing.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: They're doing, uh, my hero academia oh man, I didn't see that no, correct me if I'm wrong have they done?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: they've done world of warcraft skins in the past for overwatch yes, yes, yeah, they've done world of warcraft skins, like throughout the years.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: It's just um.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I think that this one is in particular, um, mostly because we're getting around the 20th anniversary of of world of warcraft.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: That's going to be in november.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yeah, man, yeah, everything is, is, uh, all the world of warcraft stuff is showing in everything.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, it's, it's.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I love seeing stuff like that.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: You have reinhardt as the lich king.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: They, they did Widowmaker as Sylvanas.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: That's a good pairing?
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely One of the more interesting ones.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: That's kind of crazy because it's kind of like a large orc, but they made Zenyatta Thrall.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's cool.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: But it's still like the size of Zenyatta.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: He just looks like an orc yeah and then, um, they did torbjorn.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: I forgot who torbjorn is.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: He's like this kind of like diamond looking uh character.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: It's really cool to see like those.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: I, I would love to get those skins, but I'm like I mean it dude, it's you gotta grind a lot of money.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: You gotta grind or you gotta pay a lot of money.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: It's money, it's not a grind I would grind for.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: If you could grind for those skins, I would have been grinding for them.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: But like no, you have to pay for them in the shop.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Oh really.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean you could in theory grind for skins.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Right, you can't do that for Overwatch 2?
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: In Overwatch 2, you can grind for some of the skins.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Technically you can grind for the skins, but not for the skins specifically For the currency that it costs to buy those skins.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, but you can get the currency to buy the packs.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: You can no.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: No, there's no loot boxes anymore.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: What?
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: They got rid of those.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, loot boxes are gone, why, um, that was like that was so fun for me loot boxes have been gone since overwatch 2 started, man, but yeah, no, they had gotten rid of them.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: A lot, of, a lot of people did have some like gripes about it and I mean I, I totally understand, like you know, the whole reason for them like kind of monetizing the game is so that they can add more quality content, and you know like story mode almost right, right, like you know it.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: You know and and skins and all that stuff, and like, especially for a good period there they're like mythic skins were just like not good.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: You know, like, the first couple seasons they were like, you know, pretty good, and then they, they just started to die down.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, we did get some collaborations here and there.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Uh, like, we had the one punch man one, we had, uh, the cowboy bebop one, oh well, I mean the my hero one, but and then all the world of warcraft ones, but, or, they've also done, they've done diablo also, but like, I mean, those are all like in-house ips, you know, sure, um, except for the anime.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: But you know, like, if, if overwatch had their content or brought out content and skins out, like the way that fortnite does, fortnite has everything, dude, everything, and you know that and that that's what you know keeps on bringing people back.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: You know people buy this stuff because they got you've got these, like you know, fresh, new, really cool skins.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Um, you know they they try to change up, like the, the you know it's a battle royale but they try to add, like a story a little bit to it, like, oh, this is what's happening.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, this is the storm.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: And then they had done like a complete reboot of the game and like brought back to like chapter one.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: And so they, they, it, they, they definitely do a lot with um, with fortnite.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: And then, and then, like, they heard the cries of of a lot with Fortnite, and then they heard the cries of a lot of people.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: A lot of people were like, oh, I want to play Fortnite, but I hate building.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: They added zero building.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: So they definitely listen to a lot of their fans and a lot of the could-be fans, and Blizzard definitely needs to kind of go back to their roots and like bring back.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I I'm, you know, I'm not to say that blizzard what is you know, and I'll keep on saying this like forever, but not to say that blizzard was ever perfect.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: But I think that they got worse when they got entangled with activision yeah, I think that's the general consensus among, uh, among fans.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Oh well, but at this point it's like you know they're so ingrained yeah, how do you?
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: how do you stop that?
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: right, right, like that.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: That's like trying to like.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: You know that'd be like trying to like remove your skin and expect you to live.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: You know, like they're.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: They're just so.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: They're synonymous.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: You know they're.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: The only way for it to happen is, if you like, create like a whole other blizzard which there are so technically.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: There is a group of former blizzard uh or people who worked for, for, uh, for blizzard they're.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: They've come together and they've created a studio and so they're like working on a game together.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: So you know, I'm interested in and seeing I forgot what the name of the company is, but I'm interested in seeing what it is that they bring out and if it is kind of like a return to form, like like a nod to like old blizzard fans.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: You know yeah, if I were them, I'd call it something like old or I'd call it like snowstorm or something, just just to play on.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Play on the name, um cool man snowflakes, so you've been gaming that's awesome yeah, man, I brought you know me always gaming and you know kind of kind of back with shogun, like I've been enjoying it so much that I've, you know, like it's like I I actually enjoyed sitting down to watch it, but yeah, but, yeah, enough about me.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: You know we've kind of been droning on a lot about myself.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: You know what about you, dakota, have you?
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I know that you had some projects you're working on uh, yeah, still working on those projects, um, namely, uh, the one I'm focused on right now is my avatar, the last Airbender timeline.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I've been talking about it for months at this point, but I'm chipping away at just making sure I have everything, because what I really want is a complete history of the universe.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I guess I want to create an actual history slash timeline video.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at the notes that I have.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: I could easily write a novel, like, of the history of this world at this point, but I'm trying to figure out, like, how to turn that into a watchable video, you know.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Right right.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: You know, that would be something that I'd totally be into at some point is like taking my video timelines and adapting them and expanding them into actual, like historical novels of like these fictional worlds.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: I think that that would be a really cool kind of like a guidebook through each universe, and I would love to do that for avatar.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: But speaking of guidebooks, I recently picked up, uh, the last thing that I had on my list of, uh, you know, avatar content that I've that I have yet to like go through, and it is the avatar legends role-playing game oh, that's cool yeah, so it was a kickstarter.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Uh, I think a year or two ago that went like really well and they, they expand quite a bit of the you know actual lore and background and they go into like different places and, uh, you know, like you can learn more about the wanshitong desert or omashu or the fire nation and all that, and I'm I'm learning bits and pieces of like the history that's embedded in into these books.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: So I have the, the core book, which is kind of like the dnd's core rule book.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Then I have wanshitong's adventure, kind of like the D&D's core rule book.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Then I have Wan Shi Tong's Adventure Guide.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: That's the owl dude, the owl spirit, who has the library in the Sealand.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Desert.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: And this one's cool it's a setting toolkit for Republic City.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: So this is very specifically about Avatar Korra's era.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I haven't even cracked this one open yet, but I'm excited to see the different districts and stuff that exist within that city that they don't really explore in the show as much, but you get to explore it in this game.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: So my goal with this is mainly knowledge of the world and its history, but I would like to eventually get a group together and maybe play uh like a campaign through one of these.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I think it's like five different eras that you get to play through.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: You get kyoshi roku, the hundred year war, uh ang's time after the last airbender and korra's time after the legend of korra.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: So there's five different areas and you use the recent history of what we know from that era to build a campaign around.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: So I'm really excited to dive deeper into that and I think that they're making a fourth book that's coming out in November.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: It's called Uncle Iroh's Tea Shop, I believe, or no?
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Uncle Iroh's Adventure Guide Uncle Iroh's Tea Shop, I believe, or no?
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Uncle Iroh's Adventure Guide Uncle Iroh's Adventure Guide, and it's about him finding an island that he makes jasmine tea on, or something like that it has different adventures in it.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: So I'm excited to jump into more of.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I'm on such a big Avatar, the Last Airbender kick guys.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry I know you guys are bored of hearing me talk about that, but here we are and a lot of the influences when it comes to the Avatar world are Asian inspired, whether that be Chinese or Japanese or indigenous cultures and that kind of ties into what we're covering today, because with Shogun we're actually learning about.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: You know, shogun is a show that is based on historical events.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: You know they change the names of characters, but the actual events that like precede the show and the events that occur after the show, or book rather, are based on true events.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: So, uh, I think that that's really cool and I think that really changes how I viewed the show.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Like, at a certain point I was like, while I was watching the show I was like how much of this is like true and how much of this is just historical fiction?
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: And I looked it up and, yeah, so you, you do have it is historical fiction.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Most of these characters don't or didn't exist in the in the ways that they did in the show, but the main events of what happens that create the city of ito, which um is now the city of japan or is now the city of Tokyo in Japan, and it basically like that shogunate coming into power, which is what this show is about.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: It's pretty much all true in broad strokes, you know.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: So you have, like the the previous Shogun dying and it was his five, like the power went into, like the Council of Five Elders or something like that.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Regents.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah and yeah yeah.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: It was a council of five regents that he had set up before he died to kind of divvy up the power instead of creating instead of it creating a power struggle after his death right, which did indeed create a power struggle after his death uh, right, right, like you, you know he had good intentions.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: But yeah.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: So one thing that I was like trying to figure out like in the opening credits they have it's a beautiful, beautiful opening credits.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I skipped it a couple of times, but every now and then I would, I would sit and watch it, just because I was like I wonder if I have new information now from watching a couple episodes of like what this is all about.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: And it's it's basically like just a Zen garden in terms of like.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: It's just, you know, rocks that have been combed in a way that you know create a beautiful pattern or whatever.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: But in the intro you have the like this palace that doesn't really ever show up in the show in its completed form, but around the second half of this of the, the show you have, you know, when they finally head to the new city, that what's the main character's name?
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: toronawa no tokugawa oh toronaga toronaga yeah, hiroyuki sanada's character yeah.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: So I'm a little bit confused because I'm looking at like the actual names of the characters in history versus like the fictional names.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: So Torunaga is based on Tokugawa.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So if I get confused about that later in the episode, please don't hold it against me.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so Torunaga, did I say that right?
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: No, toronaga, toronaga.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I already messed up toronaga.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: When they, when they go to ito, um, you see, it's under construction, but like one thing that's under construction is his like temple or not the temple, but like a palace for a shogun, you know a future shogun, and I'm pretty sure this like him building, all of this is kind of what set the other regents, the other like council of five, to, you know, set their plans in action because they, they felt that he was, you know, uh, amassing too much.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: You know power, where he was like eventually going to move in the city of ito, you know right, right.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: And when the, the previous shogun had had passed away, he was kind of offering like hey, do you want to take over to him?
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: yes to tora naga and tora naga is like that wouldn't like bode well over with the others, you know.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: And so I I can kind of, I can kind of like understand because you know, and in a way, toronago was playing a game of chess.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: He really was like the whole series was him playing a game of chess?
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, moving the pieces exactly where they needed to be and every you know, and and he threw some people in for for a loop.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he, he was like he was untrustworthy and he showed it, like you know multiple times that you know he was kind of like playing.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: He was playing both sides, you know, like whoever looked like they were edging on a little bit more.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Torinaga understood that like he saw that he used that to his advantage and kept him out of the loop for a lot of stuff.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Your, your boy blackthorn dude.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I loved dude.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Torinaga's reason for keeping him around was hilarious yeah, because he makes him laugh.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Because he makes him laugh I was like but but you know what's funny though?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Because, like I was thinking the whole time when I was watching the show I was like I was like dude, this guy makes me laugh like this, like blackthorn was hilarious, like he was just so ridiculous he was like and like bumbling stuff that he would.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the stuff that he would say to the people in japan, like you know, you know, oh, you, you, you know, you, you're, you pos, uh, you know, like right to their face they're, they don't know what he's saying and but he's just like um, I think, like one time, like there's that moment, I, I know that we're gonna be kind of jumping around, um, you know, talking about the show, you know, there's that moment where they could.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: So he gets shipwrecked in japan.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Um, his ship isn't completely destroyed, but it eventually gets destroyed and like a move of torinaga to kind of like keep him around.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: So he's trying to pull out the remains of the ship with a bunch of people in japan and like he gets so excited that he just like cusses him out.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: And there's a guy that's like um, that's like doing the, the translating.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: He's like maybe keep that part out yeah I'm glad that we were doing this episode because it really, like, gave me a reason or it's not that I didn't.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I needed a reason to sit down and watch it, but I have been wanting to watch it.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: But sometimes that you do need that, uh, sometimes you don't need a reason to like be pushed into something.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Because there's so much good content these days like there's, there's way too much for everyone to watch everything or experience everything you know.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: So you have to manage your time.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: You have to pick and choose what you're going to be into, and this is a 10-hour commitment you know, absolutely.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: But like.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And then also because like I'm a really big fan of hiroyuki sanada, like I'm pretty much like almost everything that I've seen him in like fantastic or everything that I've.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I have seen him and I haven't seen everything he's been in, but everything that I've seen him in it's been a fantastic like's he's like an amazing actor and like it's no different, Like he's amazing in a show.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's not the only one that's amazing, but he really plays his character so well and um one thing that I'll say about like the cast is that there are no weak links in the show.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, One thing that, uh, I was really impressed by is that everyone holds their own and it's just impressive top to bottom, whether it's like the attention to detail of the time period, the costuming um the sets.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Sets were massive dude right, right, yeah, yeah they, they were really large.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: But I do like that you said that there was an attention and attention to detail about the time period that they're in, because it's so easy and a lot of shows have this knack of you know, especially, especially um period pieces, that they'll do something, that just they'll add something that wasn't around that time.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Right, you know, but like, if you're none the wiser, you might not question it, right, yeah?
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: anachronisms.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Basically it's like stuff that shouldn't exist in that time period, like why does that character have a cell phone?
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: That's anachronistic, you know, like um.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: But what I was really impressed by is that, at least for a western audience, this time period, in this setting, is basically, you know, uncharted in in you know western media.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: So we have romantic ideas of like what ancient Japan and ancient China was.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: But to actually see a historical setting, a historical drama, based on stuff that actually happened for 500 years ago is insane.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And tell me how insane it is that this show was as good as it was and it did not have a huge battle scene.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: There was no war scenes in it.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: There were skirmishes, there were fights, but there was not a large scale battle.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: And the fact that this show was able to pull it off and really capture our attention the way that it did, without needing all of that, goes to show you how strong the writing for this show was oh, 100, yeah, um, I.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: I like that you bring that up too, because there's a lot of preamble for battle.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: You know like there's a lot of gathering of troops.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of talk of you know, this side's going to go to war, this side's going to go to war my army's going to meet you in Osaka or they're going to come here.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: What are we going to do?
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: We're all going to die, A lot of that going on throughout the entire show and you know, a lot of people do die.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: A lot of people die willingly, which is a really interesting concept, concept um something that you become almost accustomed and used to, by the time the show is over, um, is the idea of, you know, offing oneself for honor or because your lord commands it, you know, and that's something that just doesn't happen here, it doesn't happen in western uh civilization, that much you know?
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: yeah, yeah, for real.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, if an authority figure told somebody here to you know, okay, I didn't like that, you did that, I'm gonna need you to kill yourself before sunset tomorrow.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah kill yourself.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly here in the united states.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Be like no, you can.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not doing that to myself.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Forget you, yeah, it's just a totally different culture.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Also one thing that they exactly bring up in the show is the the difference in mindset from the japanese to uh christianity in terms of like what suicide means uh for for the everlasting soul as they believe it.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: So the Catholic Church preaches that it's a mortal sin, you know, and they won't have the ability to, you know, make it into what they call it the pure land in this, like it would be heaven, you know, but they didn't really have the word for it, I guess.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: So I thought that that was really fascinating and that like balance of like.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Western culture, which is very shaped by Christianity, believes, you know, seppuku or, you know, willing suicide is something that's just a huge no-no.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: But in eastern culture, which isn't shaped by christianity and those beliefs, it's, it's developed entirely differently, that mindset is entirely different right and it, and it was brought over by the portuguese like during like trading yeah and so and so, yeah, that was interesting.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: And then when, when you get john blackthorn in, he is protestant, and so there's, there's another like layer war, that's kind of happening in the background that yeah you know, you, you have this, this war of the five feudal lords, going on, and then you also have a religious war going on, where John Blackthorn.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: He comes in, he is a Protestant and he openly protests against the Catholics, the Portuguese, and that he's seen as a heretic because of that.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Right, because, as of this point, the Japanese don't understand that there are different christian different sex, right, right, and he even spoke of a couple of them.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: He said that, uh, protestant, catholic, calvinist, you know, like there was yeah, there they yeah.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: And I totally understand that, because you know, I believe that maybe, like before then, there was maybe very little contact between between japan and other parts of the world.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe the ronin had more of more experience of traveling the world, ronin being samurai that are not allied to one, to a lord, they're, they're like, pretty much like mercenaries yeah, that that actually was was.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: An interesting concept is that, like they hadn't been reached by many people and the beginning of the show kind of explains that the portuguese were essentially hoarding their trade with japan and, you know, teaching them their their Catholicism at the same time.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: So, technically, whenever someone is speaking English in this show, they're actually speaking Portuguese.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was something that I had to like mentally adjust myself a couple times on.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I thought that that was like interesting because, like when they were like oh, you speak Portuguese, right, can you speak with this person?
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and it was english, which was interesting that that they went that route yeah, because everything else is in japanese, like just hard japanese right, right, but I do like I think that it was very smart that they placed english, kind of breaking up, because you're not spending the whole entire show reading japanese or reading the subtitles.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah it, it breaks up.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: It breaks up the need to read.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're like, okay, you know, you get a little bit of a break and then you get back into it.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I think that that may be because of that pacing.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: That's what made the show a lot more enjoyable to watch.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: You know you're not reading the whole time.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: You can actually look up at the screen and enjoy what is happening right, yeah, I thought that was it was also not fast.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: No, the subs weren't fast either yeah, the subs weren't fast.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Um, the the pacing was, uh, I think, pretty smooth throughout.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: It's slow at times, definitely, but I think that also was part of the beauty of it.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it took its time, it served a purpose it served its purpose.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: It didn't try to like jump from one scene to the next too quickly, and that builds on the drama that you're experiencing.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: And there are some extremely dramatic scenes in this show.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: You know one of my favorites?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, man, there's a couple that I'm thinking about right now.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: One scene, guys, we're going to get into more spoilery territory at this point, just because the nature of what we want to discuss requires that.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: So if you have not seen Shogun, if you want to check it out, I highly recommend just pausing this podcast right here and right now, just because it is a fantastic series.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Um, it did win 18 Emmys, which is a record for a single season of a show and it and honestly I feel like it's well earned oh yeah, I, I'm, I'm so astounded.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: So definitely give uh Shogun a shot if you haven't already.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so we're going to talk about some spoilers, some specific scenes in the later half of the season that I really found just super powerful.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: There's a scene with Mariko bringing the vassals of Toronaga out of Osaka.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: And she's, you know, like, made it her mission, like no, I'm just going to walk out.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: And she's, you know, like made it her mission, like no, I'm just gonna walk out.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: And she's proving a point that either you let me go free or we're all hostage.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Everyone here's a hostage, yeah and oh my gosh that that scene was so good.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: And and the actress what's her name?
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Anna sawai, dude throughout the entire show.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: She killed it but yeah, oh she, she was absolutely fantastic.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was the, the translator between the japanese and john blackthorne, and so in the show, yeah, her name is, uh, named mariko, and then, yeah, john blackthorne, there's definitely some entanglement that happens between him and her.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: That definitely ramps up because so she's married, but she's not exactly in a happy marriage yeah, but obviously you know in that time, you know the japanese, you know like you're, you're with your husband.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, they did.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I think there was a mention of like oh, if you don't want to be with her, just divorce her right.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: So that was.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: That was a a thing that they could do if they chose to you know which, which I did find a little surprising.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I thought that that it was just like you know, you know you, you live or you die.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: You know that kind of thing.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: But right, yeah, there's definitely some sort of entanglement that happens where and that ramps up more when she thinks that her husband gets killed right which um he, he goes by the nickname um buntaro, yeah, buntaro.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: And you know, like there there's like this I hated this guy dude.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I hated buntaro I did, I I did too.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: But you know what, though I kind of they, they end him on a, on a good note.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, because he, he could tell that he did care about his wife and like he was, like you know, he was kind of there and he was grieving that when, you know, mariko died, um, when she died, you know, she gave herself up, she pretty much became like a martyr, like she, she became, uh, she, she was like a piece of, you know in chess that was needed to kind of cause friction between the regents, especially between, you know, between, like, the regular ones and the Christian ones, because there's two Christian ones.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: And because she was childhood friends With the heir's mother, the previous shogun's heir's mother.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: That was a huge boon In Torunaga's favor In terms of her as a chess piece, because if she dies a martyr, that will turn the heir's mother onto his side right, and then she was also like pretty close with she was also like close with the, the, the portuguese, the catholics, yes, and so like, because of that, she saved blackthorn's life too.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: You know, because this is towards the end, a bunch of them go to Osaka and, yeah, pretty much like they, it's like a trap for them to be there.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: You know, like Miracle goes over there to To go to To get the vassals and yeah, like it's pretty much like they're not going to leave there alive, none of them, right?
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because she gave her life, that pretty much saved all of them and they were able to leave, because one of the the biggest protagonists in the show was ishido and the antagonists yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, the antagonist my bad, you know he.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: he was like the, really like the driving force for the, the rest of the regents, to like come, come against torinaga, because torinaga used to be one and they were already like working to vote to like pretty much expel him, to make him resign and, in turn, kill him.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: And he took that fate in his own hands because he was kind of trapped in Osaka for a little bit too.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: This is where you get that turning point in the series where he kind of sneaks in one of those like those like boxes that the vassals go into, oh yeah and um, that was such a great dude, that was so good, but yeah, that that was like insane.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: And then they realized like oh my gosh, he's with them, you know, and and like just yeah, man, like there are so many great scenes in this show.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: And it's a show that like preludes war.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: But it's not.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: It's not about war, it's not a war.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: There's no war that's happening, it's just the tension that kind of builds up.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: It would be it's almost like it's almost like if we were to get a movie or a TV show of the events happening just before world War I or World War II.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm excited to see where they go with it, because they've pretty much adapted the entirety of the book by James Clavel.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: So they have to basically rely on what happens historically at this point and make their and continue their characters from what we know happened historically.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: So so are they making more seasons?
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: They?
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: They pretty much.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Right after they won uh 18 Emmys, like FX announced that they uh extended the series for two more seasons.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: See, like I know, I would be.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I would be fine with it if they just left it.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: At what?
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Because it they it was left.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: It's like they capped everything off.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: They don't need to do anymore yeah now.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Now they're just trying to like ruin it.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: You know it's like dude, just we don't know if ruin is the right word, but they're trying to strike while the irons hot, because obviously a lot of people are going to want to go watch the show now, like we just did.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Right, and I totally get that.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: But it's like the iron has.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Look, you already struck with that iron.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: You didn't know if it was going to come out smooth or if it was going to still be wrinkly, but you know what?
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: It came out good, it ended well, you don't.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: You just don't need to do more.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: And the reason why I say ruin is because the very reason that you're that you just explained they try to strike while the iron's hot and then try to add all this other extra stuff and it's like dude, it's okay you think it's gonna go the you think it's gonna go the game of thrones route, where, uh, like the, the actual narrative becomes super diluted and they're just trying to like get to an ending right right and and and the.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: The insane thing about that is that they had the actual writer of the series on board for the rest of like from the point that he stopped writing, or like his books ended up until the end like he was there, dude.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And so it's.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm pretty sure that the yeah, james Clavel, the writer of Shogun, has been dead since the 90s, so they said that they were going to work with his like his family's estate, kind of like Tolkien has like his family estate or whatever.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: So we'll see how that goes, but I I think they're pretty much just going to rely on what happened historically past that point, because the shogunate, that tokugawa's character, uh tokugawa toranaga's character in real life, tokugawa, the, the tokugawa shogunate, is the last, pretty much, empire of japan, or not empire, but like lineage of shoguns that lead into um imperial japan in like the late 1800s, you know right and and in this show I think that like yeah, I think at the at this point in the show the Shoguns weren't really existing too much.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: They were becoming less and less common, and so I mean, yeah, if that's the case, if he was the last one it would make sense, Because it was already like a dying position.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: It's not that he's the last one.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I said that kind of weird.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: So a shogunate is like a period of several rulers.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: So the guy that died that basically left his shogunate to the council of the five elders, or five regents, that guy was the last of his previous shogunate and the goal of uh tora naga is to create a new shogunate with ito as the center of his power.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: So he would be the first in line and I think he becomes.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Basically he becomes the leader in 1605 and his family line goes down.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: There's like five shoguns past that point up until 1867 was when, um, the shogunate like came to a close.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Basically, and that's when, um, they decided to name ito, tokydo Tokyo and they kind of like, just changed up, they abolished that reign of rulers in Japan and that feudal era comes to an end in the late 1800s.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: And in history there was a two-year period where there wasn't a shogunate, and that's what we're watching in this show, when the previous guy I think his name was Taiko dies to when Torunaga eventually becomes the future shogun.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: There's a two-year period where the Council of the Five Elders are like the actual uh, that was basically like the shogunate of the time, but it wasn't really a shogunate right they.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: They're trying to fight to prevent torunaga from becoming that they don't want him to to be shogun right, and interestingly they're.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: They're waiting until the heir becomes, I guess, old enough or willing enough to become the Shogun himself.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: So they're holding on to that power in the hopes that this heir will eventually become their future Shogun.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: But history tells us that Torunaga's character.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I found some web results.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I can show them, if you ask again, from your iPhone.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: No, thank you, siri.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Uh, anyway, sorry, that was really funny that scared me.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: It was really loud.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Uh, my heart, my heart just took a leap.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: What was I even saying?
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: I don't even remember.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the characters we were talking about, about the heir, yeah.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Oh well, the heir's mother.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: What's her name?
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Ochiba, Ochiba no Kata.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Ochiba no Kata or, as Mariko calls her, ruri.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: That's like their childhood names for each other.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: But whatever, the actress, fumi Nikaido, is like stunning, but also like really scary dude.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Um, I don't know how to explain it, other than if you've ever seen like an evil lady in an anime.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: It has that like her voice.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Basically, well, so she's very calm.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Like you don't see her wig out.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: She's not yelling or screaming.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: But you could tell there's fury beneath her words.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: And so Marco, her and Ochiba.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Their relationship is interesting Because Marco's father killed her father yes and he, he was a leader, like he, her father was a leader and so, yeah, like, so it's interesting that, like I mean, they were friends, you know, prior to that.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: But the fact that, like there's still that caring, even though all all that, that happened, like you can tell that you know, especially when, when Marco dies, that that just like, oh no, I'm, I'm, I'm not with this, I'm not with Oshiro anymore, like screw him, you know.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: So I really loved her character, the, the old guy that was like the best friend of torenaga yeah, his like, his closest like, samurai hiromatsu.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, hiromatsu, yes, yes, yes he was the, the grandfather of fuji yes, grandfather of fuji and the father of buntaro yes, yes, yes what a what a fantastic character, what a fantastic actor.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: another Another scene that had me on the edge of my seat was when Torunaga called all of his lords into his presence so that they could sign a waiver basically declaring forfeit.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: And Hiramatsu basically knows that toronaga isn't giving up, but he needs to create a realistic ruse for the rest of the people there to basically move the chess pieces along.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: So he there's this huge like deal where he's just like either you know, like like fight or I'm going to kill myself right here, and Torunaga doesn't take the bait and he kills him Like he commits seppuku in like the most heartbreaking scene in the entire show for me anyway.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, the acting in that scene alone is just is tremendous.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: It's better than in some movies, you know.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Dude, dude.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: The thing that got me like, oh my goodness, is um and I'm maybe.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering if at some point he knew, because tornaga seemed to like know everything, but when his half brother like turned on him oh, that was a crazy scene too that was insane.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like they were, uh, like they were enjoying dinner together and then, all of a sudden, his, his forces um.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: His brother's name was just scrolling through imdb right now for real.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so many like different characters in here, so like trying to to remember them all is is insane yo, you know who's a crazy name john blackthorn's actor.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: His name is cosmo jarvis um, it's cool yeah it's crazy, go ahead and then and then you had uh tornaga's son.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: That like gosh pretty much that was such a game of thrones scene.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: You know, like that's something that would happen in game of thrones it was a not nagakado um avocado.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: He dude like he died by slipping and like hitting his head on a rock, but like I'm wondering if, like I'm wondering if tornaga knew that his son was gonna go in there and try to kill his, his hot brother, and I don't think so.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I think that was just something that happened, but but, dude, let me tell you, though, it helped tornaga out big time.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, he got 45 days to grieve and like pretty much like reconvene.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: That I was like.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: So it was almost like I, I guess, like in a way, and it was uh, it was a sad thing for him, but like he, he, he was like you know, he was even like kind of like talking to his son, you know where they they burned him.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: You know, you helped me, you helped me, yeah, without essentially like you helped me in a big way.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: And yeah, man, like that 45 days like really did help out, you know, because it like it's like every time he got backed into a corner he found a way out and it was, um, dude, the earthquakes in there, like the whole earthquake scene, and then the tsunami that was like wiped out that, yeah, like like it looked like you know toronago was good, but then the whole earthquake happens and then, like almost all his forces get wiped out by tsunami oh my gosh
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: yeah that was.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: That was insane.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: I I did not see that coming whatsoever.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Let's take a little time, I think I think we should take a little time to talk about john blackthorne, because we've barely touched on like him as a character right, well, I was actually about to talk to him or not talk to, to talk to him.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Talk about him.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I was about to say like one of the funniest things in this series and I just laughed every time it happened John Blackburn.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: The entire series until, like the end, he wanted to go, and maybe at the end, like he still wanted to go.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: But dude, all he wanted was a ship and his crew and he's like I want to go, I want to go.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with me.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I want to go, I want to go, I want to go this isn't my tournaga kept on giving him stuff.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Tournaga kept on giving him titles and homes and land, and and john blackthorn's like I don't understand why, why is he giving me this stuff?
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: And I think half of it is like just like part of um.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Tournaga, like he don't.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I like he knows that John Blackthorn is not um, what was it?
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: A Hatamoto, which is like a, which is like um, like a high, like samurai next to a Lord, and it's just like he, he had that position and then cause he, well, he saved him a couple of times.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: So like maybe it was like part, partly thanks, but partly, like you know, dude, like it was like pissing off these other people, like dude, like this guy's a fool, like why are you giving him this, like all this, like accolades and like stuff?
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: and even he's like why I don't even want to be here yeah, one thing that I found was really interesting with blackthorn's character is his transformation throughout the series.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: He's very stuck in his ways.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: The first couple episodes he's doing things that just don't make any sense, like hanging the pheasants to rot, you know like that's like some special dish.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: You know, not wanting to bathe more than once in a week, you know just like gross, like medieval English people stuff, stuff.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: He is an englishman yeah, and he changes, he starts learning the language and he gets actually pretty.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say fluent, but you know he can understand everything that's going on.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: It's at by the end of the show.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: He understands um what's happening.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: He doesn't really need a translator, uh to be like an effective communicator at that point right, right, like I would say that, like the way that he spoke japanese and understood it, is the same way that I understand and speak spanish, like I understand a lot of it.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I might not be able to communicate it a lot of times, but there's a lot of like.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of times that I'm like somebody will speak spanish to me, especially at work, and I'll understand what they're saying, even if I don't know how to communicate back that I understand what they're saying or I might understand, or I know a prepared statement to tell them to answer that.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, no, he, he does become like pretty, like proficient, and you know, like I mean, he does prepare like he's not like by any means fluent, but he, he understands enough yes, and one one thing that I found pretty interesting is that when he finally gets to ito and starts like looking for his men and he finds like where they're being kept, he immediately smells them, you know, uh, before he even gets there, and he just realizes like, oh, this is, this is what I left, you know.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: And then he starts seeing like the behavior of the men and like the type of people that they are and the type of person that he's become, and that divide over the past couple months has grown so drastically that he doesn't think he can go back, so he almost turns around.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Well, he does turn around and then eventually he's he's like, apprehended by one of them who starts a fight with them and, uh, he he realizes I want nothing to do with this and yeah it's, it's.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: At that point, I think, he kind of silently comes to the conclusion that his life is in japan now yeah, yeah, absolutely so one thing that's curious is that he had, he was having.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know if he was having visions or dreams of the future, or if we were being given glimpses of the future, but in that future he held mariko's cross yeah, yeah, I remember seeing that but by the end of the show he drops mariko's cross into the water, either like do you think that the future we were seen is still possible?
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: or or the the future that we were shown is still possible, or is it just like this could have been my life in the future?
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe some, maybe something that he was envisioning right and you know do you think it's possible that, like the cross, could, could wash ashore and that still does come to pass?
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, anything could happen.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, you know, I, I by the end of the show, because blackthorn is given a consort because of his position as a hatamoto, and it is fuji who was previously married.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: He, he was one of torinaga's men and kind of spoke out during one of the regent regent meetings and because of that he had to commit seppuku and with that they had to end the line and they had a baby together.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: So the baby was also killed and they were both, uh, they were both burned and the ashes were eventually given to to her.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, fu fuji and and rightly so um, when torunaga like orders for her for her to be a, a consort to blackthorn, she's resistant, she's like no, you know, he's a barbarian.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: They called him a barbarian like the whole show.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: So by the end and you know there's like a, there's definitely some moments of of like, you know like there's like push and pull, push and pull, but by the end of the show there's a common understanding and the respect that they both have for each other by the end is like really like, it's really heartwarming, but like her time as a consort is over and she goes off and she's going to go off to become a nun.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: At first Blackthorn didn't want it, but then he was like OK, you know like she.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: He was like look, you know, my service is over.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Tornaga said I can do this.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: You know my, my con con, you know me being a consort, that time is done.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: And so he's kind of like you know, well, you know that you're gonna be the best nun, that kind of thing, and that she uh goes and like he goes to like kind of give her, I guess, a little bit of a release from like that past that she had that hurt and uh dropping when you said that he dropped um merico's cross and into the water, that was also fuji dropping the ashes into the water yeah, and that's such a great scene and it also shows like how good of a guy john blackthorne is.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: You know, because um, he was about to commit seppuku on behalf of a village yeah, he didn't want.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: He wanted the village to be spared.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Uh, he's, he's a really he's a really uh stand, because the ship got burned, but it was him all along, it was torinaga that did it the whole time.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: He was just like testing, uh, blackthorn, and like, I guess, like to see where he was and the fact that, like he was about to die on on a sword on behalf of a village, I guess he was like you know, because you didn't see torinaga stop anybody from committing seppuku but him yeah, yeah, uh, because it was a test um but yeah, no, it was a really going back to fuji sama and her relationship as consort to John Blackthorne, part one of the roles of a consort is to uh is to bed the lord of of the household and to potentially uh bear that guy's children.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: so the fact that he never took advantage of her, the fact that he, you know like, wasn't yeah at the beginning because she was very like distraught about the fact that she had to service a barbarian, uh yeah, the fact that he was a gentleman the entire way through and had respect, for everyone uh, even those who killed themselves senselessly.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: She she really respected and I I could tell like there was like just a lot of respect between the two, uh and I I it's it's that, those little interpersonal relationships, that really make this show um super special to me right, and I remember, I like that one scene that there they, they want him to turn over his guns because I guess he was gonna go meet toronaga or somebody yeah and you know when you go, when, when they go before, like one of the lords, they don't want them to go armed and so you know he was very resistant on it and even um, merica was, like you know, like, just you know, like give it to to fuji and you know he hands it over to fuji in the way that she like covers her hands so that she doesn't touch it.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: Um, and then, like she's still and it's crazy because she, she was still using covering her hands, but like she like points the gun at, at one, at the person like trying to take the guns yeah, it's like that meme, like you know this is my home and I'm going to because that's another thing was like take care and defend the home too, like that was their job too, and so like the home was being threatened and so she was like you know, she was about to go down, you know yeah, uh, and did you ever watch or did you ever see that meme where it's like a guy with a with a knife, like holding up an old man, like next to a car and like the old man looks like he's having a heart attack and he's like call an ambulance and he pulls out a?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: gun, but not for me, it was kind of like that scene, but I like that there's that precedent of him not wanting to give up his weapons before meeting Toronaga, versus the end of the show, where he is a changed man.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: He understands the customs of this place so much more fluidly he willingly gives it up.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've seen that he of this place.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: So much more fluidly he willingly gives it up.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: You know, and you could see, yeah, you seen that like he, he gave it up and fuji was just like oh wow, okay, gross.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: So yeah, dude, good show, really really really fantastic show, uh you guys saw that yeah definitely need to check this out, if you haven't already.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: I as much as anthony believes they're going to ruin it with a second or third season.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: I am still kind of.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: I know it's going to have the same.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: I know it's going to have the same quality of production and and that production value is still going to be there.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Um, if they have love for the source material, it will still be somewhat good, if not as good as this first season.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: So I'm excited to see what they do with it, but I also agree that they probably should have just left it at this miniseries yeah, absolutely, look, I'll still watch it, you know, and I hope I am wrong, you know, but it's like, don't sully something that was great because you want to grab you know it's for a cash grab, right Right, because I mean it is interesting.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I mean there was, like we talked about it.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: There was an adaptation before of the book, but it was interesting that they kind of came back and adapted it again and it was.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm I don't know how good the 1980 show is, but like I know that this one is probably some of the best television I've seen in a long time.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: And I'm talking about, like you know, there's stuff that like, I'm emotionally invested in, that I that I'll love, you know, no matter what, but I was not emotionally invested in the show beforehand.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: So the fact that, like I find this show so amazing, um, after everything was said and done, like says it says a lot, like you know, like, dude, like this wasn't part, it wasn't a sequel, it wasn't a prequel to, to a series of anything else.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: It was sure, you know, it's tied to a book.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: There was an adaptation before that but it's not like something where you don't see people on the streets like talking about the shogun book, you know, maybe harry potter, game of thrones, lord of the rings, you know, but not that.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: So, but, dude, this was amazing, like this was absolutely amazing.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: There's a lot that dakota and I didn't talk about, um, you know, but the fact that, like you know that they, they, they had such respect for the source material, and not just the source material, but for the time period and for the customs, like it was, you could tell that the show was well researched, outside of the book too.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: 100 yeah, uh they.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: They spared no expense on anything like that.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad that there was no expense spared, because that's how you win 18 Emmys you don't spare any expenses.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Speaking of the Emmys, before we close out, let's talk about all the stuff that they won.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: So they won Best Drama Series, obviously, but there was some good stuff this year in terms of drama series.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: That including, uh, the crown fallout we we talked about fallout in a previous episode uh, the gilded age, the morning show, mr and mrs smith, slow horses, netflix's three body problem.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: So that's they.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: They topped all those other series, which is uh, really impressive.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: Best, uh, lead actor in a drama series hiroyuki sanada.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Uh, for shogun my boy.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: I mean come on your boy.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, how is he not gonna win that?
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: lead actress in a drama series, anasa.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Why won it?
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on, she was phenomenal, yeah, like.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: I mean she like and we talked about the fact that there was no weak links but she was definitely above I would say above the others in terms of acting.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: But not in the sense that the others were bad at acting, but just because, maybe because she had a more central role, but she played her character to a T man.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: She was so good.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally yeah, so I'm not going to go through the whole list of everything, but yeah, they won 18 Emmys.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Speaking of Anissa Wai.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: We could probably put that in the show notes.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we can list.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: It's a variety article I'm looking at right now of all the nominations and winners.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so, uh, anna, so why she was also in the monster verse show, legacy of monsters?
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you ever watched that oh, dude, that was her.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: That was her.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't even think.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, like I mean it's, it's just it's.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't even put two and two together, like the character's just so different.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a totally different role, it's totally different acting experience, but uh, I almost like she.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: She killed this so much that I I'm looking forward to her reprising that role in legacy of monsters to maybe explore some of that emotion again, just because I you know, now that I I know more of her range outside of what is, generally speaking, a very campy show um legacy of monsters versus shogun, you know that's some range, though that is some range, yeah, so I'm I'm really excited to see what she does, uh, moving forward, uh.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: But, anthony, we're well past an hour at this point.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: You want to?
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: You want to call it for the night?
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: do?
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: I want to continue it for another 45 minutes, absolutely, absolutely, um.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: So look, project ecology bringing it back two hour episode, you know, two hours plus maybe you never know, um, but yeah, no, shogun man was it.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: If none of y'all have seen it and you've listened to this whole thing, we apologize for, you know, spoiling the show, but I'd still recommend to go watch it regardless, because there is a lot that we didn't talk about.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: 100 like 10.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: That show was a 10 out of 10 for me.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I mean, you know, you and I we've reviewed shows before.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever reviewed anything that's.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: That's a 10 out of 10, right, and this was a 10 out of 10, like 10.5 out of 10, like it's.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Just, it was so like it's a masterpiece.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: It's a masterpiece it is a masterpiece and it's something that, like I, I hope more and more people watch.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: Um, what do you?
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: What about you?
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Any last thoughts on shogun?
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: uh, shogun, no, um, I 100 agree.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: I.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: I think that I wasn't expecting to love it as much as I did.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: Um, I knew I was gonna enjoy it just because, uh, from what I had seen from trailers and just word of mouth I've I've heard it was really good, but I didn't realize how good it was.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm really impressed with it.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: I'm really impressed with pretty much top to bottom everything that they were able to accomplish and relay.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: So I'm really excited to jump into the novel by James Clavel.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: Audible has it split up into two separate books, Shogun part one and shogun part two I think I've seen that.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: I think like I was looking it up online and I and I saw that that there's it's also split into two books too, oh, like physically separate books.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, so maybe also yeah okay, so interesting.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: maybe it's kind of like a lord of the rings thing, where it was all written as one book but it was like separated into chunks.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: But anyway, guys, thank you so much for listening to us here for our 96th episode of Project Geekology.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: If you want to check out any of our socials, you can find all of that in our show notes down below, whether that be Twitter or Instagram or YouTube or Twitch whatever Twitter or Instagram or YouTube or Twitch, whatever, you'll find all of our links to all of our personal and show notes down below.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening, guys.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: I hope that you give us a.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: What is it, Anthony?
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: What do you want them to give us?
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: A juicy five-star review.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: That's correct.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: It has to be juicy.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: Alright guys, talk to be juicy.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: Hi, hi, all right guys, talk to you later.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Bye y'all.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: Shogun.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: I was waiting for you to end that.