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The Business of Second Chances: Recovery. Purpose. Community. · Unfinished Business

• Kimberly Griggs: Welcome back to Unfinished Business. This is the podcast where we have candid conversations about what it really looks like to build a business from the ground up, how success gets defined along the way, and the lessons that it takes to get there, and the work that's never quite finished. Today's conversation is about recovery, but it is also about what building a business around helping people rebuild their lives really looks like. Today I'm joined by Dade Ronan, owner and president of Recovery Unlimited. which is a Wichita-based recovery program that offers early intervention, outpatient treatment services, anger management classes, and pastoral support for families and individuals that are navigating addiction and recovery. And what I'm really interested in talking to him about isn't just the services that they provide, but what it's really been like for Dade to build a business around. growing and urgent need in his community. So, Dade, welcome to Unfinished Business. I'm really excited to be joined by you. Dade Ronan: Thank you very much, Kimberly. I greatly appreciate the honor to be able to speak from my heart and share my knowledge and experience. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah, well, I shared with you before and it's I have shared this story publicly, but this hits a little close to home for me, too. So I think it's very commendable that you are building around a need that so many families fall into. I certainly can identify that because I was one. But I want to know, you know, take me back to what originally drew you to this field and this work. Dade Ronan: Sure, so I ordained it as a pastor back in the 1990s. in 2004, I started my first business. So back in the 90s when Y2K was coming on for the year 2000, I got heavily involved in IT work and building websites. then in Kimberly Griggs: Scarry time. Dade Ronan: 2004, I opened up my first business, a web development and web hosting company. I currently have about six companies now and also associate pastors for a couple different churches here in Wichita area. And over the years I've had worked for some big Fortune 500 companies building websites and external websites and intranet websites, is our internal websites. So... Developed some 401ks and I wanted to use that money to invest in and I started investing in strip malls and I was looking to buy another strip mall my My neighbor one of the strip malls I owned there's two strip malls butted next to each other and I was talking my neighbor and I said hey I want to buy a strip mall and and he goes well Do you want to buy mine and I said we meet like the one right next door to me. He said yeah I said yeah, absolutely. So my wife and I were meeting with him for lunch and We're talking about buying the strip mall and he says, well, you know what? I want to retire. Do you want to buy the business as well? And I said, recovery unlimited, the addiction treatment center. He said, yeah. at first I said no, because it wasn't my thing. But since I'm already a pastor, I do marriage counseling, pre-marriage counseling. So I wasn't unfamiliar with the therapy and counseling side. and then he gave me this crazy price. And I said, I'll tell you what. Give me your P &Ls for the last three years. I'll take it home. My wife and I will talk about it. We'll pray about it and see if that's something that the Lord will have us to do and if the door is open and maybe we might take a step of leap of faith. So we prayed about it and things look good. So we went ahead and did it. in 2022 we bought Recovery Unlimited. Recovery Unlimited has been in business since 1995. We're celebrating our 30th anniversary and we've been a Kimberly Griggs: Thanks. Dade Ronan: stronghold here in Wichita. community and surrounding areas in this county to provide addiction treatment and anger management for those people who are court ordered to do so, as well as people, individuals who are just trying to better themselves and get past the addiction and enter a life of recovery. Kimberly Griggs: So it sounds like to me that this opportunity really found you more than you seeking it out, is that right? Dade Ronan: Yeah, that is exactly correct. I was not seeking it out. I was not looking to even buy a business. And after buying the business, I was still working for a big company. was working for one of the largest private companies in the nation, building websites. And my accountant called me one day and he said, you know, this is an s-corp And I said, yeah. He goes, well, by law, you have to take two distribution. a year for an s-corp And I said, okay. And he goes, and this is November and there's two distributions in this year in December that you need to take. I said, okay, I'll take two paychecks. He goes, no, I think you're missing the point. It probably better if you just quit your previous job or where you're at now and just take this on full time. And I was like, well, let me think about that. So then I did. I went Kimberly Griggs: Yeah. Dade Ronan: ahead and decided to quit my full-time job and run Recovery Unlimited permanently. And so I've been Kimberly Griggs: Wow. Dade Ronan: working it ever since and I love it. It's a great enjoyment to be able to help people get through recovery, to be able to come alongside and help them literally on one-on-one basis. Even though we provide group therapy classes, there's still so much one-on-one work that we do with these individuals and help them to find the resources and their strength and the courage and the willpower to... to overcome and be able to change their mindset on addiction and be able to get through this process so that they can become successful and victorious when they're done with treatment. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah. Well, you know, going back to mindset, I want you to before we kind of move on and go into how you started operating the business, put us at the scene. I mean, what was happening during the season of life? mean, this is how I'm imagining the story. you're setting out to do one thing. This opportunity comes your way. You've got to ultimately decide, you know, if you if you want to pursue this opportunity and then you find yourself in the, you saying yes, like you get green lights, we move forward. And in your right at the beginning of some a world you do not know. Put us at the scene of what that season was like during your life while you were figuring out this brand new adventure. Dade Ronan: Well, it was actually kind of scary because yeah, it was a whole new thing, something totally different. you know, being a pastor, I was a little bit used to, you know, dealing with homelessness and going and feeding the homeless and, you know, things like that, but never really at all address anything having to do with people going through addiction, people struggling. But my background, my testimony is part of addiction. So... Years ago in 1980s, late 80s, I was addicted to a vodka, alcohol as a big addiction for me. I would drink one to two glasses of vodka a day. I had a craving for vodka. I could not go a day without drinking one or two glasses. So when I was in college, out of high school, I got that addiction in my senior year. And then I went to college in Phoenix for two years and getting ready to graduate. We had a big party and through this party I wanted to drink a whole half a gallon of vodka by myself, which I did, and then I passed out on my back. My friends had enough sense to know that if you pass out on your back, you can actually drown on your vomit if you start vomiting. Well, I started vomiting and they rolled me over on my side and I continued to make a big mess. So this is a Friday night about 10 p.m. and they clean up the mess, they pick me up, took me two miles away to my apartment, took me upstairs to the second floor, took me into my apartment, into my bathroom, took all my clothes off, put it in their trash bag so they could wash it. They put me in the bathtub, in the shower, they cleaned me, they put new clothes on me, and then they put me in my bed. So that was about two or three o'clock in the morning on Saturday morning. I woke up Sunday evening about six p.m. thinking it was Saturday evening. So I lost two days, I blacked out. and going back a little bit, I had already accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior on February 2nd, 1983, 11 45 a.m. It's the most important date in my life because it changed my eternal destiny from eternal separation from God to eternal life with God. So that's the most important date in my life. And so after this event happened, I went back and talked to my friends and they continue to cuss me out and make him because of the big mess that I made and everything and they had to deal with it. And I apologize extremely so much to them. I went back home to my apartment and then I got down on my hands and knees and I asked God, said, and I had a broken and contrite heart and I asked God, said, God, I realize I'm an addict, I'm addicted to this vodka, this alcohol, and I can't control it. I can't overcome it on my own. So God, would you please forgive me? And would you take away this cravings, you take away this desire, take away this addiction that I have? And just like that, God did so. He took away that desire, that cravings, that addiction that I have in a snap. It was a miracle that God provided for me. And I haven't had a drink ever since. And I've been clean and sober for 35 years. Now, most people don't have that type of testimony. God doesn't deliver them immediately. Some people do, but usually God will take them through a process and that process is through recovery. And so that's the part that I have the empathy, the compassion, and be able to desire to want to help those people who are going through addiction because now I have my own way in which I can relate and I understand the cravings and desires that they're going through. So this industry is very difficult in... being able to try to find people who can relate to the struggles that addiction has. Because typically, a lot of people, if they haven't gone through that process, they don't understand it. It doesn't make sense. They just say, well, just stop. Well, yeah, it's a lot more complex than that. And being able to have that empathy and desire to help people in this industry goes a long ways because people will find out that you're genuine, that you're real. And they'll know if you're fake or not. just by the words that you say and the way that your demeanor and your appearance and the way that you treat others and whatnot. And so I'm able to be able to come alongside and help these people because I know how difficult it was for me. But it was by the grace of God that helped me. And I want to be able to share those experiences and let them know that, hey, we are here to help them. We are here to come alongside because we know how difficult it is. We want you to be successful and be victorious in getting through this addiction, stopping your addiction and then going through recovery and having a time where you'll be abstinent from not only from here but from the rest of your life. And that is so rewarding. It is so exciting to be able to see people, their countenance change, their lifestyle change, their appearance change, their whole demeanor changes because they've gotten that you know, off of their shoulders. It such a huge stressor for them. Now it's off of their shoulders and they're moving forward and they're excited about life and they're like, God makes them brand new. And it's amazing to see those experiences, amazing to see those people successful and so happy when they complete the program. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah, you know, there's a lot to unpack there, Dade the first thing that speaks to me about your story is, of the stories that I know that that is a powerful testimony to be able to experience something as difficult as that and then ask for deliverance and then it be that way. I agree with you in that what I've experienced not only in my own life, but in the life of the community that surrounded us at that time, our family with our story is, you know, that looked a little different. And quite frankly, I don't know where we would be. without the type of community that, you know, Recovery Unlimited offers that that type of support. I don't know how you get through something like that without that. That being said, you know, in terms of you coming into this business, so again, it's like you, this is, it seems like this is a divine teed up intervention for you to step in and be qualified because you were someone that experienced this. You can speak the truth and love about that. But on a day-to-day basis, particularly in the early years of building this business, what a typical day looked like and the families. Can you give us a glimpse of what your involvement in the business and how you were dealing with families at the early onset of crisis looked like? Dade Ronan: Yeah, we'll have both, you know, adults coming through addiction who are court ordered to get treatment. And we also have adolescents as well. Half of our clientele are adolescents. And it's amazing. know, years ago, the statements was that marijuana and alcohol were the gateway drugs to the bigger things like cocaine and heroin and meth. And then they got pushed down to high school level. And that was the same thing for high school kids getting involved in the bigger stuff. Well, now we're seeing it's being pushed down to junior high level. And the problem is in the junior high level is vapes. So they've created vapes that you can put marijuana in the vapes. And 100 % of our kids, our adolescents, are kids who were caught with vapes in the bathroom and the vapes had marijuana in them. And it's crazy how this society has changed and the culture has changed where things that are illegal now have become acceptable and it's not acceptable because for one it's illegal and it affects your body and your mind and we're not doing enough really to protect our kids. And so I've seen this cultural change where the this world seems to think that it's okay. but it's not okay because our kids are being destroyed by it. Their lives are being destroyed by it. And when they come in, at first, everybody, they don't want to be there because they're court ordered. And so they're angry. And it's our job to speak with calmness and compassion and try to keep our cool and help them through this process. And once they get through a couple of weeks, They start seeing how effective it is and how loving we are and their countenance starts to change. it's a process. And by the time that they get through about halfway through, you know, they're committed, they're excited about it. They're looking forward to graduating. They're looking forward to getting things done and putting all of this stuff in their rear view mirror. But yeah, at the very beginning, our clientele, their hearts are hard. because they're still stuck in that addiction. nobody has ever come alongside them to be able to help them to go down this process of getting clean. And it's interesting, probably about, I'd say about 50%. 50 % go on to a life of recovery. The other 50 % are people who still are stuck either in the system or in their addiction. And those are the ones that break your heart because you know that their life is just going to get worse and worse. But that's this environment. Kimberly Griggs: Can we unpack that a little bit? you said several things that concern me. One, that it seems like the gateways, as you're suggesting, are happening to children earlier and earlier. And yes, it seems reasonable to assume with a little bit of research, if you've read anything health related, that your body at a 12, 13-year-old body and brain development, you're not going to be at a state where you can accept those things and be okay. Like there's going to be repercussions. That just makes sense. But you mentioned, you know, they come in because they're court ordered because they get caught. So that makes sense as far as how the addiction is being discovered. What I'm not clear on and what I'd love for you to dive in deeper is the hardened heart. I guess I'd like to know, you know, from the people that you're seeing on a regular, what seems to be a commonality in that and what separates someone who, you know, the 50 % that you suggest that make it through to an ongoing life of recovery versus ones that you can tell or spot that are likely to fall back into this trap. Dade Ronan: Yeah, we see so many of these people that 50 % their addiction, they're there's a love for it. And that's become their lifestyle. And they'll do anything they can, no matter what it is to continue in that state, whether lie, cheat, steal, whatever. You know, they break the law to continue in that lifestyle. And even threat of jail time is not a deterrent to them and their minds have been changed. And so that when you look on the insurance level, insurance doesn't pay for like anger management because that's a willful choice. Insurance pays for behavior health because their mind and their physical body has changed because of the drugs. And so that's where we're seeing when people get so involved in it, it starts changing their mind. It starts deteriorating. It starts breaking down things in the brain and their physical organs start changing and becoming dependent upon it. And so that's why the insurance will pay for it because it becomes a medical and behavioral health issue as opposed to now it's a move from just a one-time willful choice to a physical problem. because of that physical aspect of it, the minds change, the bodies are changing. that addiction is so strong on them, it's difficult for them to stop. It's difficult to break that action of taking those drugs and alcohol. And so those are ones that, like I said, breaks your heart because they don't want to stop. It's not that they can't, it's that they don't want to. And you have to get a person to... want to stop and want to change. And hopefully when they come into treatment, you know, they don't want to. So it takes a couple of weeks and you got to start to bring them into that process. And there's what we call levels of change or stages of change. And you got to get them from one place where they're addicted to wanting to change, to wanting to have a difference in a life, to wanting to be better, wanting to stop that addiction. and that's the first couple of weeks that they're in here going through treatment, that's pretty much the deciding factor. And if we can't get them, then they turn around and leave, and for various reasons. And it's the hard part of the job is knowing that they're gonna go right back out there, they're gonna get involved backing in with that addiction, and they might go through the court systems again, they might go to jail. or they might get a bad contaminated drug that is contaminated with fentanyl or something and kill them. And it's a sad case. But that's what we're here for is to help people and try to get them past that so they can change their wants. And we provide a godly influence and godly direction as well and ask God to help them and provide that change in their wants to have a godly... want. I want to be godly. I want to do right. I want to be positive. I want to change my life so that I can be a productive contributing member of society. I love my family and build my relationships and grow in life and not be stuck in this addiction where it could end up in death. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah. Can you describe what those stages of change look like? mean, what are the few indicators that lead you and your team to believe that they're on that path to wanting a better outcome for themselves? Dade Ronan: Yeah, well, one super easy way is UA tests, know, urine analysis tests or oral swab tests. And you can find out if someone's been abstinent or not, because you really can't trust what they say as opposed to what the physical test results show. So when we get a physical test result from a urine analysis and it shows that their numbers are dropping and decreasing, or shows that they're completely stopped, well, now that validates their desire. If they say, I've stopped and I want to go on a path of recovery, we're like, okay, well, that's nice, but we need to be able to prove it. And so the UA tests prove that. And that provides us the ability to know that that person wants to change, that their desires are changing. So typically, if someone says, yeah, I want to change, and then their test results don't represent it, well, You can't really believe that that word because the test results say that not only have you not stopped, but your quantity has increased which means you're still using and you're increasing more than what you used to before so that's the first indicator as to whether they change their mind or not and That helps us to that like in validate their desire If they have that desire to change and we're starting to see it, that is our path to success. Now, on the other hand, if the UA results show that they're still using, then we know we have a battle on our hands. We have to have an exerted effort to talk to them and try to reach them and touch their heart and help them to understand that this path isn't going to be healthy for them and it's going to be detrimental and try to help them to understand the the consequences of those actions, but at the same time show them the benefits of stopping and going into recovery. So one of the first things that we use for that signal, that validation, is a UA test or an oral swab test. That's the easiest method because unfortunately, when you're in addiction, one of the biggest problems we have to deal with is they lie. And so we have to overcome information with valid scientific evidence and that would be the UA tests. Kimberly Griggs: Right, right. And it sounds to me like that's a piece that establishes trust between both of you. a clear indicator as to somebody's willingness to keep moving forward in the process, is that correct? So, yeah. Dade Ronan: Yes, yes. Yeah, and trust is a huge thing because if they don't trust us, they're not going to get anything out of it. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah. How did you start earning trust, you know, in the beginning in this community? I mean, what are some of the things that you did to try to connect with that individual? Dade Ronan: Yeah, that's twofold. There's one, we try to build trust by changing a lot of the quality of the type of care that we provide. There was sometimes there would be some shaming and sometimes, you know, some practices that wasn't very effective. And so I took an exerted effort to double down and look at the type of treatment we're providing and said, okay, we're going to continue doing this because this is effective and this is right and this is not effective and this is not okay. This isn't going to provide a healthy improvement in the person's life. So we're going to stop doing that. And one of the things that I discovered was you can make statements that would shame someone that you would not recognize that it was a statement that shamed them. And so using the right words, having the right type of empathy in dealing with them is extremely important. So that's part of the quality in reaching them and let them know that we're here and that we care about them. So using words of encouragement helps to... if you're constantly using words of encouragement and building them up and providing them a path forward, then it replaces those words that might come out of your mouth that might be shaming. So it's literally a numbers game. If I'm given 10 words of encouragement, then I don't have time to give words that might happen to pop out of my mouth that might end up shaming them. So it's strictly a quality of care on a personal level. The second quality of care that we provide is building relationships with the referral sources. So that goes along with trust as well. So we're building relationships and trust with the individual clients, but we're also building relationships and trust with the referral sources. So the courts or the lawyers or a case manager or a parole officer or a probation officer or a diversion officer, when we build relationship with them and we have to do the same thing, provide the same type of communication to let them know that we care about that client. and we're building relationships and as a result, they're trusting us more and then they're sending more of their clients over because they're trusting us more. So it's on a dual level. Not only do we need to use that same quality of language and communication with the client, but we need to also do the same thing with the referral source. Kimberly Griggs: You know, the word that stands out to me most about what you said is community, or that's the word I think of. And it feels like Recovery Unlimited is a place where people can find community of individuals going through similar struggles and people that are there. Like environment makes all the difference. People that are to encourage that you can, that life can change and showing stories of lives that can change. From your perspective, what I'm curious about is on the broader scope of things what is happening you know in the community and the family right now. Dade Ronan: Yeah, so providing community in recovery is extremely important because they can also feed off of each other. When you're hearing about other people's going through the same struggles that you have, it's also encouraging knowing that you can relate to them and they can relate to you. So it helps build that dynamic accountability within each other, within the people in the group. So that provides a stronger community because then they start trusting each other in that group as well. And secondly is community outside the group, every Thursday we create what's called family night and we encourage the clients to bring their families because we want the family to also be a part of the recovery process. Because typically when people are going through recovery, they burn their bridges with their families. They destroy their personal relationships with family members and we want to help rebuild those. And those family members are key to helping someone in their loved ones, their blood relative to recovery because they're with them a lot. They know them and they can help support them. And if we can get them to realize that, you know, this is your family member, you should love them and help them to be better because they're your blood relative. We want to build the family member up and to help also provide a community of support within the family environment because you don't want to isolate someone. Isolation also causes someone to have a risk of relapse. so community is huge and developing that into the life of a client. Additionally, community as a result of broken communities, our county, Cedric County in in Kansas is the fifth largest foster care system in the nation. And the reason why there's foster care is because there's broken families. The reason why there's broken family is because drugs and alcohol has destroyed the family unit. And then these kids go into foster care. So the whole family unit is intricately involved in the support system as well. And that goes right along with building a strong community. And one of the things that we emphasize is building a healthy support system. the healthy support system is built around the concept of community. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah. you mentioned isolation. I suspect isolation is a huge part of why this epidemic keeps going because when we live in secret, it's easy until it's not, right? It's easy to hide until it's not, until things start spilling over. And so I'm curious from your perspective and the families that you're serving right now, what is your point of view on that? Why do you think so many people are struggling right now. Dade Ronan: Yeah, so when you do something wrong. you're ashamed you're shameful, and you don't want to tell anybody. You don't want anybody else to know. And so that it breaks the communication between you and your friends. Or if you're confronted about it, nobody likes confrontation, right? We always avoid confrontation. But if you do something wrong and you try to hide away from it, you don't want people to know. And so as a result, your relationships with them get estranged and your communication tapers off because you don't want anybody to know and you don't want to give any signs about what's happening. confrontation provides an area where you don't want to deal with it. You don't want to deal with life. You don't want to deal with the hassle of stress. So there's so many stressors in our lives, so many triggers once you make a bad choice, that sets you off down a path where you don't want anybody to know and as a result, you're gonna take whatever precautions you can to hide it, whether it's lying, not talking to people, isolating yourself and as a result, you're destroying your personal relationships with other people. And it's important to help people recognize that. A lot of people who are into addiction don't understand the effects that they've caused because we tend to think, the people who are in addiction tend to think that, it's only affecting me. Well, it doesn't just affect you, it affects everybody around you because everybody who is around you are the ones who also are feeling the repercussions of those actions. Kimberly Griggs: can you describe some of those repercussions that families might be feeling when a loved one is in this cycle? Dade Ronan: Right, Many times people will steal from their loved ones, whether it's money or physical objects and they go and sell it so they can go get their next fix. So stealing is a big one. Lying, lying about what they've done, where they've been, what they're doing to their loved ones. And when you lie to someone and the person finds out, you've broken that trust, you've broken that relationship because they can't trust you anymore. they know they love you, they want the best for you, but you've burned your bridges there. So it creates a cycle of... a downward spiral of distrust and lack of communication. the next steps is the legal issue. It's only one small step until they get caught for doing something wrong. And then when they get caught for doing something wrong, then now they're going through the legal process, going through the court systems. And then the stigma that we have with people who are addicted, Especially for family members, like, yeah, there's my brother, there's my sister, the druggies going through the court systems again. That also just feeds into that separation in our relationships. Yeah. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah, it's almost like perpetuating the cycle further. So what if you were going to give, you know, let's let's say that there's someone listening right now who may suspect that their children young, younger or growing up are like something's off, what would you be kind of the three red flags that you come across most frequently that you might, you know, caution or advise parents to pay attention to? Dade Ronan: Sure. So if they're an adult, I'm going to go separate these two between adults and adolescents because they are different. So on adult side, you'll see things being stolen, things being your own possessions being sold. You'll see lying. And obviously they're either high or they're drunk all the time. And they will... be gone all the time. Or if they're high, they're isolating themselves in the bedroom all the time. So there'll be a separation. They don't want to talk to you because they don't want you to know. It's because they're ashamed in their communication with you. And so they don't want to be confronted about what they're doing. And so that's some of the key indicators right off the bat. Now for adolescents, yeah, for adolescents, Kimberly Griggs: And then for adolescents, yeah. Dade Ronan: it's a little bit the same, but Adolescents they'll just leave. We have many of the adolescents that we've seen that run away. They'll go to a friend's house or one gal would be dropped off to high school in the morning on a Friday and then she wouldn't show up until Monday morning waiting for the mom to take them back to school. You the whole weekend they're gone. So there's this... this runaway mentality. They're going to go get whether to fix or that they're trying to do. Secondly is lying. They're always lying about it and stealing. There lots of stealing as well. So for adolescents, those are probably the biggest ones is as soon as your child just starts disappearing without notice, you got to start asking questions. one of the positive things that parents can do is, you know, go search the room, see if there's anything in there that shouldn't be there. That's a really easy, fast way to determine what's going on. If they find something, like they find a vape or if they find a needle or if they find a bag of something, you know, that's super easy to identify what they're involved in. But trying to get a handle on who they're being involved with is a whole different area. As parents, we need to make sure and guard our kids about who they're running around with. And we want to be open and let them develop their own lives. But on the other hand, we're also responsible for their lives until they're 18. me as a parent, I have six kids. I want to make sure that my kids grow up knowing what my rules are for my household. And I protect them as much as I can. And when they turn 18, they can make those decisions on their own. I will love them and support them. I don't want them to make any bad decisions. And so I pray that as I raise them up through those years, they'll have learned good morals and how to make wise decisions for the rest of their life. And that's the whole job of a parent is to protect them and to raise them and to train them. So that way, when they become an adult, they can make wise decisions going forward. And a lot of times, We see a lot of broken marriages that because of broken marriages, that is not in place for them. There is not structure, there is not discipline, and there's not consistency of it. Kids want that. They thrive in a structured environment. They thrive in an environment where they know that they're safe and they're cultivated and they're nurtured and they can grow in that environment knowing that someone cares for them and someone's going to be there to help them through whatever they're going through. Just recently, one of my kids came to me and was struggling with something and they came to my my bedroom and my wife and I were sitting there talking and she asked a question and I left the room because it was some female stuff but the very fact that and I talked to my wife about this I said the very fact that she came and inquired and asked a question and said hey can I talk to you about something shows us that we're doing something right because then it provides an opportunity to really talk on a heart to heart without having to be angry on that conversational side. know, we want to be able to train them and lead them and guide them on how to make right decisions. And when they make a bad decision, you're there to love them and support them and tell them, know, okay, you made this bad decision. Here's what you could have done or here's what you should do forward. Well, now there are some consequences for those decisions, but we're still here to help you to know how to make right decisions. And it's important to know that these kids who have broken marriages or broken families, they don't have that. And so because they don't have that, they're going elsewhere. They're going to go look for a relief. They're going to try to escape reality. And they're going to go and look for ways and things that help them to accomplish that. And sex, drugs, and rock and roll is the way in which they fulfill that. Kimberly Griggs: I mean, going back to speaking, you're bringing to light the power of community on both sides of that coin. How influential the environment that you're around has an impact on the decisions that we make, right? So I think your work is incredibly important and there's probably more need, there's a lot more need for more. Would love at the end for you to kind of talk about how the world as a business this space is changing but I want to go I want to talk and kind of dive into the business side of it. What has been you know some of the biggest hurdles since you've come on board in you know getting the word out that these services exist and that this community exists and is here to serve those those families that are without one. Dade Ronan: Right? So there's two things here. One, I have a master's degree in IT. And so when I first took on this company, they were still doing paper charts, writing everything down in Microsoft Word or taking notes by hand. And I said, look, I have a master's degree in IT. We're not going to stay paper. We're going to go paperless. Everything is going to go digital. So Kimberly Griggs: Yeah. Dade Ronan: that was a big challenge, a big change for the company to be able to put everything in the EMR, electronic medical record system, and increase. the efficiency of our work and change the processes to make more efficient, more effective, more streamlined. I have a phrase that I use, automation equals monetization. The more you can automate your processes, the better return on investment you'll have because you're not doing as much labor, personal labor on that task. Kimberly Griggs: it sounds like technology was a big hurdle. people are all resistant to change, right? It's the very nature of conversation we're having. But how did you work through that challenge and get them on board with your vision for where you could take things? Dade Ronan: Right, it's kind of easy when you play the numbers game. When you can take a piece of paper or print out on an Excel spreadsheet and say, look, here's our numbers. We're spending way too much time doing this and not enough time doing that. And as a result, this is costing us too much. so it's easy on a visual side to be able to make a PowerPoint presentation and to present that to your staff, right? But it's also another aspect to be able to come alongside and teach them and train them. Because not only do you have the change that you want to implement, there's also the training aspect. And if you have an older generation, which we did when it first came into this business, it makes it more difficult, more challenging to train them on new software, new applications, new processes, because they're so used to doing other stuff. You know, last 20 years, I've been doing this way and it worked for us before. How come it can't work for us now going forward? So they don't understand that transition. So it makes it quite a bit of a challenge in that regard. Kimberly Griggs: Was there a light bulb? there a story that stands out where this clicked for someone where, you know, that maybe made the curve? Dade Ronan: I don't know about a positive story. I have a negative story. One of them, a negative story is one of my staff members came to me and said, Dade, I lost my Google. And I was like, what? Kimberly Griggs: you Dade Ronan: She goes, I lost my Google. I can't find my Google. I'm like, what are you talking about? How do you lose your Google? What are you talking about? I don't get it. She goes, well, let me show you. So I go back to her computer. I go to her desktop. And she goes, look, I can't find my Google. And I look at the bottom, you know, on the bar, and I say, well, right there is your Chrome browser, click it. She clicked it, and then she goes, oh, there's my Google. I'm like, oh, wow. Because she never closed it down. And so she must have closed it down at some point. She couldn't Kimberly Griggs: funny. Yeah. Dade Ronan: figure out how to get back up. So, you know, there's those little challenges. Those are funny ones. Probably another big challenge is marketing. So. Our clientele are court ordered, probably 95%. And it's illegal to market to the court and to representatives of the court. Well, so then if you can't market on the traditional level, like you would have a mental health facility, they can market to people in Facebook and TikTok and whatever else, Instagram, and try to bring in people who need those services. But that's not so easy with with a court ordered clientele. Because like I said, it's almost illegal to market to them. So the way that we market is building relationships with the referral sources. So that has been a huge challenge. We're still trying to work that piece of the puzzle. And I think the best way to develop relationships with those individuals is not have lunch with them or have a... a day where we have a big barbecue and invite, you know, like a diversion, diversion group to come by and have a lunch and do a tour and have a Q &A, you know, be able to provide opportunities where I can put some tangible brochures in their hands or something, or make those personal one-on-one face-to-face connections. That's how we're building relationships on that level. that... literally on the marketing side, it makes it more difficult because me being a web developer and an IT guy, I wanted to do SEO and more marketing and more automation emails, but that doesn't fly when literally it could be an illegal process based upon the court systems. And so we're trying to methodically figure out on the business side, how can I reach more people for what we do? So inside of our county, the court systems require face-to-face classes, group classes and individual classes and things like that. But all the counties outside of our county, inside of Kansas are open to telehealth. And so we're trying to provide more opportunity to build out our services on telehealth side. So provide, put some of our classes to be interactive online and then market those for those counties outside of our area. So those are the future that we have lying forward. And those are the challenges that we want to do to bring AI into and building out some of those, like an eight hour class. It takes a lot of labor hours to build an eight hour interactive course. Even when you use AI to help assist, there's still eight hours of class time. then once you build it, then you got to test it and make sure everything works. So it takes a long time to do that, but I think that's where our future lies. That's where we're hoping to move forward to. We've got some grant opportunities coming down the pike to help us fund those out. And so we're looking forward to that. They'll be able to reach people and provide our services on a greater scale and to reach more people in the rural areas who need the same services, but they just can't get here. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about that, that as a model in general, lot of things that I think is applicable to many different businesses who rely on referrals and networking. You know, one of the things that I find as a common thread among people that rely on those sources is the need to add value. They struggle with, you know, how do I add value to someone else to ask for their time? Because it seems like everyone is pressed for time. And so it's, more difficult than it used to be than just asking somebody to go to lunch. What has been the most successful way that you have, I guess, shared the love, if you want to say, added value back to those referral partners? What have you found to be successful in that? Dade Ronan: Yeah, so for our industry, they like reports. And one of the things that we are recognized for doing is creating weekly reports and providing them consistently, really quick. So that way, the referral sources get a good feel about on the update of their client, how they're doing, how are they doing in their sessions? Are they being responsive? how their demeanor are, are they missing classes or are they attending consistently? What's their UA's are like? the urinalysis test results, are these hitting positives or getting negatives? You know, so our weekly reports provide that data, that feedback back to them really quick. And most facilities don't provide that. So that's one thing that we can capitalize on. We can pride ourselves on and be able to provide almost immediate feedback to the referral source, the information that they need to know about their client. And that is through automation, that is through AI, that is through having an exerted effort to stay in constant communication with the referral source. And as a result, it builds trust, it builds a desire to want to send their clients to us first because then they were able to provide the feedback that they need. for their reports and for their court systems and to their judges. the weekly reports is not required per se, but it's something that we provide that has now become such a desirable aspect of what we do, that that concept has now have reached the state and... heard back that the state might be wanting to implement something like that on a state level requiring it because of the type Kimberly Griggs: Wow. Dade Ronan: of feedback that we're providing. So being able to provide that is a huge benefit across the board. It benefits us to be able to provide the feedback because then it builds our relationships with the referral source, but also benefits them because then they get the data that they need to generate their own reports for their organization or their court systems or whoever, or even lawyers. Lawyers love it because they have something tangible that they can bring to court. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think any I think those things are fantastic. And to your point, even though you may not be able to directly market, it is soft, soft marketing to the people that refer you back. So I think that's an incredible idea So for the listener here, because, you know, our audience or business builders for the non tech savvy service based business owner who's wearing all the hats and running the show. What what were the tools that you used to help develop that process? Dade Ronan: Our EMR was a huge, huge plus. one of the great strengths of our EMR is that it allows for changes, it allows for customization. And that's one of the reasons why I chose it. Being an IT guy, I knew that you can't just get a cookie cutter EMR and expect it to work for everything. Because this industry, we have so many different pieces of the puzzle. We have insurance, we have the clients, we have the referral sources, we have courts, we have our systems. So many different pieces to the puzzle that all this information has to be going back and forth and there's, it undoubtedly requires customization. So me being able to customize a lot of our processes, a lot of our forms, a lot of our documentation, a lot of our workflows helped out tremendously. I just sent a quick email out to my EMR developer and said, hey, can you add this little thing to this form? And then lo and behold, the next day, oh yeah, it's added. So that type of collaboration with your EMR helps out tremendously because, like I said, cookie cutter EMR just does not work. You always have to customize it to fit your needs because every facility is different. We want to be a little bit different than everybody else. Well, if you're going to be a little bit different, provide a little bit different services so you're not doubling up on everybody. You want to try to provide some type of monopoly on your products and services that nobody else has. So you're trying to be inventive. And in order to do that, then you have to provide a little bit of customization within your EMR system. And so I think that is a huge plus for us, was that we are able to... have an EMR that we can accomplish those different things that we desire to do. Kimberly Griggs: And just for purpose of clarifying communication, what an EMR is, is it similar to what I would know as a CRM, a customer reputation management system? Dade Ronan: Close, it's very close, but an EMR is electronic medical, the is the medical record system, or the EHR, stands for electronic health record system. So you're not only managing the client with all of the CRM information, but also the medical side. So you have to log your, what they call data service, or your encounter, or your time which you had a session with that person. That's one type of encounter. And you have a date of service when that date occurred and the time that occurred on. And then you have to provide your procedure code for that procedure, whatever that was. And then you have to have your CPT code, which is a diagnosis of that. So all of that stuff and that information then has to be signed off by the counselor and then turned around and shipped off to the insurance company. Because if they have health insurance, well, then you have to submit it to insurance to get reimbursed. EMR, Medical Record System, allows for that functionality to provide not only the CMR part, the customer relations part, but also the medical record part to track all the data and the information and house it into one application and submit it to health insurance. And then also when you get audited, they'll come in and check a couple of people, you know, and check your records and make sure that you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing to match the regulations. Kimberly Griggs: your point earlier, if all of that was being done by hand, wow, that had to have been incredibly time-consuming process. Dade Ronan: Yeah, like I said, being an IT guy, we used to have 10, 15 applications, and if you can reduce all the way down to one application to do 10 to 15 applications, now you don't have to pay for those 10 to 15 different applications every year or updates, because you're only doing one. And then you don't have to train people on 10 to 15 different applications, you're only training on one. And so by consolidating and trying to get in as much functionality, and features into one application is so much better because it streamlines everything and it houses everything. But again, as long as it has a customization to able to provide the workflow that you need for the type of business that you do. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, to your point, think automation equals monetization. think you're absolutely right there. And what I'm hearing you say is that customization is really the way that you do it, thinking through what your business processes look like and how you can have a competitive edge in a way that you don't you're not having to handhold everything. I love Dade Ronan: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Kimberly Griggs: that. Dade, I want to be mindful of your time. feel like I could keep going as far as the clients you serve, and we definitely would welcome a second conversation to dive more into that sometime. to be succinct in the business where you shared a little bit about where it's headed, if we were to have this conversation 12 months from now, what would you have been the most proud of building in Recovery Unlimited today? Dade Ronan: What would I be most proud of? Probably the success rate. I'd be more proud of the fact that we're being able to bring people through our treatment center and complete, get people completed, get people through the system. And when they complete, successfully complete, they're happy, they're proud, they're no longer a user, They'll always have an addiction because you always have triggers, but they will not. have to succumb to those anymore because now they'll have a toolbox of coping skills that when the trigger comes, they can pull out that coping skill and provide something to address that trigger that comes. then it stops that risk of relapse that is right in front of their face. And so being able to provide those tools and provide that... change in mentality for them so that way they're successful in their recovery, they're successful in their abstinence and their life changes. They're able to rebuild those relationships, they're able to get a job again, they're able to finish school, they're able to a family and restore their family. lot of these people, their families have been broken up and so there's court battles between divorces or... or whatnot and trying to do child custody and seeing those relationships restored. That is probably what brings the most smile on my face, regardless of the business itself, helping people to restore their lives to the point where they're healthy contributing individuals that are sober, it just warms the heart. Kimberly Griggs: what feels like the next big step for Recovery Unlimited in getting there and getting to see more of those success stories. Dade Ronan: Yeah, so we have some great big grants coming down the pike if the Lord will open that door. And so we're looking to launch nationwide some some online courses. And then statewide, we're looking to launch some additional remote rural treatment facilities and to provide treatment in rural areas. You know, so the reality is that someone has an ankle bracelet and they live on the west side of Kansas next to Colorado, they're not going to drive six hours away to take a three hour class and then drive six hours back. And not only that, the course not going to open up that window for them to even get here. So we need to be able to break out of our brick and mortar building and go to where they're at to be able to provide the treatment And that's where I want to be able to go to and move into being able to provide. the services that they need where they're at so we don't have a burden upon them to try to get here. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah, I love that different way of thinking and now it seems like technology will make that a little easier to get to. What's Dade Ronan: Yes, that's where we're hoping. Kimberly Griggs: yeah, what what still feels you know in that endeavor what still feels unfinished for you right now? Dade Ronan: We're still always trying to update. So being a professional web developer and business analyst, I'm always looking for ways to improve my processes. Improve the process of insurance. Insurance is like the bane in my existence right now. You submit something out to insurance and then Kimberly Griggs: I hear that a lot. Dade Ronan: they deny it for who knows whatever reason. It just blows my mind the reasons that they give when the exact same data you submitted for the day before, they paid. And then now that they say they don't, it just blows my mind. So we're always trying to figure out the right combination, making sure that, and using AI to help validate the data that we're sending out to insurance is correct and that it won't get denied. And so that's always a piece of the puzzle that we're trying to crack. I think by improving our processes will help us to continue down that path of Sometimes it's literally trial and error. You submit something and hope that the insurance will accept it if they don't, well then you try a little different combination. And if they accept the different combination, they're like, okay, well maybe we're doing that one wrong. Or maybe that specific insurance company wants this little different thing. And so we just literally a couple months ago found one of the insurance companies wanted two digits added to taxonomy code that nobody else in the nation does. So we had to crack that nut. And so now we're trying to implement a solution to provide that on a consistent basis. So I think that's always an ongoing challenge for us as a business to improve the processes in our insurance submission. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah, I've heard that a lot, you know, in the medical community that it's almost AI will have to be used as a defense mechanism in order to, you like you said, trial and error. And that's the work that, is you know, unanimous across the board is I think people often have a misconception that this figuring these things out come easy and it doesn't it is trial and error. That's the real work. Well, Dade, we always in the show with a traditional question. It's kind of a hypothetical scenario. So I'm curious to see what your answer would be, but just imagine for a moment that you take Recovery Unlimited to nationwide, you take it as far as you could ever imagine possible. But there's no record of the win. You don't have this podcast recording to kind of show what the steps were. You don't have books or resources or things like that available for us to glean your insights from. from an entrepreneur's perspective. But what you do get to do is you get to leave three words of wisdom or three lessons, if you will, behind for someone who's aspiring to do what you are doing. What would your words to them be? Dade Ronan: Yeah, so I strive to do everything to glorify God. And so at the end of the day, I'm looking for my Lord and Savior Jesus to say, well done, good and faithful servant. You've been faithful over the little things enter in to the joy of the Lord. And so if I can be faithful over what I believe God has called me to do right now and to minister or serve in these little ways and to help people. the lives to change and to be better. I think that is honestly the single most important thing that we have on this planet is to be obedient to God's will for our lives today. That probably would be number one. Number two is life is changing. You can't go through life and expect things not to change because you can look at your own body. It's changing. It changes every day. You get older. You can't stop that. That's change. so change is permanent. life also is a life of learning. If you stop learning, your mind starts becoming stagnant. And so always be striving to learn. even in my relationship with God, I always like to pray and pray that God helped me to know you better today than I did yesterday. And so that's an aspect of learning. And so I want to glorify God. I want to change into image that God wants me to be. And I want to continue to learn until my last breath. And I think those are three great aspects for life. Kimberly Griggs: Yeah, I love that. Dade, thank you for sharing all this information with us. We will definitely be linking Recovery Unlimited's contact information in our show notes for anyone who is looking for support and resources. Where else can we find you? Where else can we connect with you, Dade? Dade Ronan: Yeah, so I also have written 14 books and you can find some of my books online at amazon.com. I've written two really great books that we utilize in our treatment. One of them is called 31 Days of Devotions for Dudes and 31 Days of Devotions Kimberly Griggs: I love that. Dade Ronan: for Chicks. And so what it is, is it helps people to, when they're stressed, you open it up and you read us really quick, short devotional to remove the stress. And so they say, in order to create a habit, takes 23 days, right? Well, 31 Day Devotional is just a primer to get you started. But it also, sitting down and physically reading that book, the amount of time that you're spending looking and reading and praying, now whatever that trigger was has been dissipated out of your mind because you focused on that thing. And after 31 days, if once you're done, hopefully you'll continue that path and use it as a way to, as a tool, as a coping skill to address triggers when they come. And so I wrote these devotionals not specifically for that purpose, but I've seen the benefit of how they perfectly match, how they give a great utilization of a coping skill. So there's two types of coping skills. There's a intellectual coping skill and a tangible coping skill. The intellectual coping skill is something where you do like, you count backwards, 10, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. So that's a intellectual coping skill, something that's in your mind and helps you to relieve stress. The second way is the tangible coping skill. Now I have a tangible book. I can hand them, here's a 31-day devotional. I can put that into their hands and I give them free to my clients. So that way they can have something to use as tangible to take home and utilize as a coping skill and open up. when they're stressed, they can read devotional, they can de-stress, they can refocus, they can prioritize their life and get things right. So that way... they can be back on a path of either recovery or sobriety. Kimberly Griggs: I love that. We will be make sure to make those links available to for anyone to purchase those devotionals. Dade, again, I want to thank you for your time with us today. I definitely want to acknowledge you and thank you for, the meaningful work that you do, helping to show people that their story isn't over yet. I think that's so important and so valuable. So thank you for being here. Dade Ronan: Kimberly, thank you so much for having me. greatly appreciate it and I love what you guys are doing too. God bless you. Have a great week. Kimberly Griggs: Thanks, you too. Bye. Bye, guys.