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Breaking Up with Busy · Smart Business Growth with Nicky Miklós

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with Nicky
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: and.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Ness.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of country, the Turrbal and Bunurong people of Brisbane and Melbourne respectively, where Nicky and I both work and live, both work and live.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: It seems to be something out there in the world, in the universe, where people are constantly talking about how busy they are.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Ask any business owner or you know somebody who's working in a bigger organization around the workload.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: In fact, I have found myself feeling that this week, in the week of us publishing our book and getting to the post office and sending stuff off and writing on cards and signing books on top of our normal workload, it has actually felt quite hectic and I really think about we talk about it in the book some of the stats that you found in relation to this whole concept about people are busy and yet 88% of working people procrastinate on a daily basis.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I so can relate to that.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: There are times where I feel like my workload is so overwhelming that I probably spend half an hour just looking at emails, because that feels easy, right?
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Just looking at emails, because that feels easy, right.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Which leads us into the next stat, which is the average worker spends 51% of every day on low to no value tasks.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Now that's not saying there aren't important emails in there to be looking at, but for me, I know that I come back to that.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: I come back to what I know is not productive in order to handle looking at what has to happen.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: And so that's for me, where I find I say myself and to people around me that I feel really busy at the moment.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I'm working longer hours than normal and that whole get caught up into that whirlwind of either taking a lot of action but not really valuable action, or actually just sitting back going oh, I can't do this.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: So do you relate to that as well, nick?
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Is that something that I don't know?
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe you in the past?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: you're a shining example of how to fix this and you're laughing, so I gather not.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's fixable because it's kind of a way of the working world and I am giggling here in the corner, in the corner at the desk because of a few different reasons, one being I feel like in the last decade I've been on this mission not only to redefine hustle culture in a healthy way, also to ban the B word, because I remember actually probably almost even 10 years ago, at least five years ago, I feel like every conversation was how are you today Busy?
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: What's going on with you Busy?
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: And I had this approach I banned the B word.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: None of my clients, none of my team, are allowed to say the word busy because it doesn't add value and the reality is we are busy, so we can ban the B word.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I think that's important in terms of our beliefs and our mindset and what we focus on.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: It doesn't change the fact that we're not busy.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Just like you said, there's going to be projects or things that we're working on, or unexpected aspects of life are thrown at us and then all of a sudden, our workload increases.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So reality is we are busy and it's about how do we sort of move through that I also.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: What comes to mind is the Stephen Covey's time management grid when you're talking about.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I'll just jump in and do some emails because it feels good, it feels safe, it feels easy and it can actually still feel kind of productive, even though, like you said, 51% of people are spending time on low to no value tasks.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: But we get this false sense of accomplishment and Stephen Covey's time management grid one.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: But we get this false sense of accomplishment and Stephen Covey's time management grid one of the quadrants.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Is that not important, not urgent?
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Whenever I take people through that, why would you have that quadrant?
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Well, sometimes we need it and sometimes it's resourceful and sometimes it's unresourceful.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: So if there's anyone that doesn't resonate with this conversation or have actually found the fix, reach out to us, let us know, because I don't know if we can fix it.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's about the evolution of how we flow with it and we're humans.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: It's that whole piece we are not robots which is more relevant to remember now these days than ever, and we're human, so some days it's going to feel harder to handle Ness.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I wonder if, looking at this from a perspective of like we need to fix this versus what we're going to share today around.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Well, what's a maybe more resourceful frame to look at it through, because sometimes I think we can fall into all or nothing?
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, a hundred percent, and usually I can tell the state of my mind by the state of my surroundings, and so I used to pat myself on the back when I was aware or more self-aware, especially in the early days of my business.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: My previous business was well good on me because I know I'm procrastinating, but look at all the good work I've done by decluttering and therefore go me.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: If you're going to do something unresourceful or sorry, not unresourceful that is a resourceful way of procrastinating.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: But you're going to procrastinate, make it worthwhile.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it should be my belief, but now it's great it feels good, but did it help get those sales recruit that team member, like whatever those you know wildly important goals are?
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: But sometimes we do need that as well.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: I think so, and this is where our do-be model comes into play.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I think, because if we look at the difference between action-taking, so we can take action, but clearly sometimes not in the right area or not with the right focus, because it's just like checking the emails or tidying up your desk.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Or you can be looking at the.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: You know the space and the grace, the part that allows us to nurture ourselves and step back from what we're doing and stop doing in order to figure out what's actually going on for me right now, what are my beliefs, what is my mindset in relation to this.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: So I think, when the action taking and the space and grace are both low, that's where people feel stuck, and I believe busy probably sits more in the action taking side than the space and grace side.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: So if we think of feeling stuck, you know some of the things that I would describe that as is feeling frozen, like really unable to take action because the overwhelm is too large.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: You just got so much going on, you don't know where to start and you feel like this busyness, like the clutter on my desk or the clutter in my mind or the clutter on my screen.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: You know all the tabs are open.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: It's suffocating, and so, rather than doing anything like I, think of days and we talked about this in the past where it was probably just better for me to take a day off and regroup, rather than sitting at a computer for seven hours and feeling like I've achieved nothing because I was too stuck.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: So I think that that can actually be a place where we start to talk about I'm so busy, because it makes us feel like there's an excuse for not doing anything, for being stuck, because look at what's going on around me, look what I have to achieve, even though I'm really I'm struggling.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: But that's not an okay thing to tell people, right, especially the old hey, how are you doing?
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Good thanks.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: If you're going like what's going on for you Busy, oh, okay, then I'll leave you alone or I won't probe anymore, whereas I think the real conversation is actually, I feel, really stuck right now and I need some help with that, but I don't think that's the go-to answer for a lot of people.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think even just share like it's a better quality connection and conversation if you share a little bit more about what's going on for you.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: So it could be I need some help.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: It could just be things feel chaotic right now.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: You know like it paints a better, not better picture, a more accurate picture.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: So people know what's going on for you.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Have you heard?
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Our book Healthy Hustle the new blueprint to thrive in business and life, is available right now to purchase.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: In Healthy Hustle, we take you through real world, practical and achievable steps to move you away from unhealthy hustle to a place of happiness and living, whilst continuing to achieve incredible business results.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Order your copy now at healthyhustlecomau.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I'm also realizing through this conversation, when we talk about stuck, it could be stuck in a moment in the day.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: It could be a day where you feel stuck.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: It could be a week where you feel stuck.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: It could be a longer term.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: The longer term is where we start to lead into burnout or negative, which leads to chronic stress space.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: But it could also just be in the moments because, even as you're sharing this and, like you said, there's been a big week behind the scenes.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I was definitely there on Monday.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: And you were like whoa, your energy Okay, Yep.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Let's just go get some stuff done shall we.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: And that was a day where now I look back and go.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: It's exactly like you said around.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Is it the best thing to push through and take action?
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's better to pull back and step into that space of being, of what do I actually need?
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: To just take care of my world right now.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: You know it could be I just need to actually introvert and not have any meetings or talk to anybody and re-energize.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Or it could be I need to go to the gym or go for a walk or pat the dogs or have some micro moments or take the day off.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we can't do that, but what can I do within my circle of control and influence right now if I'm feeling stuck and stuck doesn't have to be perpetually stuck it could be in the moment, it could be the long term, really important perspective.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I think about that decision for us to push back a meeting to the next day when we were fresh was such a wise choice because the energy that we would have brought to that meeting on that day would have probably just spiraled us more into being stuck.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so true.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: It's hard to see in the moment, isn't it?
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's I mean, we are very lucky and fortunate to have each other, to be able to work together and have one of us pick up the other one on that and make the suggestions.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: But I guess you know how do you translate this into your own business?
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Or, if you're in a career, you know, as a leader, how do you translate it into the workplace.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Because sometimes that feels like a challenging conversation to be really open and raw and honest with your manager or with your team about where you're at.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: And I guess what we're saying in this conversation is, if the ultimate outcome is to peak performance, to be operating highly effectively, we have to actually acknowledge where we are and then work out what do we need to do in order to get us out of this space.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And I think for us it was the right call.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Just can't just move the meeting to a day where it's a fresh start and not that we didn't do other things, because there was a lot of other things to do, but it was just like let's just take the time to do what's required as opposed to trying to rush, rush, rush, rush, rush.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: And that's where return on effort comes into play.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: So definitely, you know, this is just such a great example because the meeting together would not have been the best use of time, whereas the behind the scenes productivity I imagine for you as well, for me I was like right, I've got through so much because, again, it's a different energy.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Now, if you're a business owner or a leader who can impact this kind of change or make these decisions in the business, we really want you to think about are you creating this environment for your team to be able to have these open conversations?
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: And we totally get it.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you can't move a meeting.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: We were fortunate it was an internal meeting, we had the flexibility.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: So if you can't move a meeting, if you can't actually refocus that attention on a different task that better suits the energy for that time, nessa, are there any tips of what people could do in that instance?
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Because we also appreciate that's the reality even for business owners and leaders.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we can't do that.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Absolutely Well.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's about having the ability to take a micro moment before you get there, so it could be just whatever it is for you deep breathing, box breathing, walk outside, touch a tree, step on the grass, just something to ground you so that it's almost like a circuit breaker between this buzz in your mind and, depending on who you're meeting with, have some honesty around where you're at.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: So I think that's really important as well.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: So got lots going on.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: How could I be best supported, or what do I need to do in order to be present and also know what it is I've agreed to, and especially because meetings often end up in more work, right?
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: So being honest about what you're capable of doing.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: So I love that thought around the circuit breaker what's a circuit breaker?
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: And then the open and transparent communication, because I also think the other thing that can happen when we're in this stuck space is the spiral thinking.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: So then the spiral thinking happens, we start to get down on ourselves, or there can be this almost mark, like it plays out in so many different ways.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: It could be martyrdom.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: It could be why is it always me, why do I always have to do?
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: It could be martyrdom.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: It could be.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Why is it always me, why do I always have to do?
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: It could be resentment.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: It could be just sad, like there's a whole bunch of emotions that can come up and then we attach stories to it, and so that stories and the deeper we go in the stories is spiral thinking and remember, when we're in a stuck state we're not in a resourceful mindset energy state, so the more you can actually, I think, connect and find that circuit breaker a really cool song that you love is a good one.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: You know, the circuit breaker and open communication are two things you can always control, regardless of the external situation.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: So then, if we look at, what's the difference, Nicky between being stuck and then moving into ineffective, so when we're stuck, ineffective is really it's almost like we can go too far the other way.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: So, you know, we take a lot of action, we get in the overwhelm.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: But ineffective is where we actually maybe do too much navel gazing.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: We're all over the self-care, we're all over the breaks, we're all over the creating space, which is amazing, but perhaps we're not taking action.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: And again, there's multiple reasons as to why there's not the balance of action.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: So there's this focus on space and grace and being Like on holidays, we're being Great.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: That's appropriate.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: We want that.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: We don't.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: You know, the action or the doing should not be about the business, but when we're in the business and we really want to find that place of momentum, it has to be the balance.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: So I see ineffective, or in our model, the ineffective is we've gone too far the other way and it could be that we're so exhausted and tired we don't have energy to take any more action.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: It could be that we've just come back from holidays.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: It could be a whole bunch of different reasons.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: It could be that you know we're coming off feeling stuck yesterday, but it's all the yeah, I hope that makes sense.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It's all the reflection, you know, the time, taking time to do things, but without action, without action of that will move the dial.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: That's right, and to me it's sort of that unresourceful thinking around.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: What's wrong with me?
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Why am I the only person in the world who can't get this?
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: And so that again spiral thinking comes into play.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Right, totally.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: And I guess, overthinking on mindset.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: That's right, yeah, that's right.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: So there's.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: So I've got to shift something internally.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, the focus is all inward rather than outward, because really it's about like you said it's.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: It's, yes, we need to find that balance so that we can take action as well.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: But sometimes we get caught in the whirlpool if we don't stop and have downtime, quiet time, reflection time, because I think, oh, I love the whirlpool.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking of when I was a kid, that's right, I think my brother used to do that in the pool.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I did that all the time.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Last year when we were at Byron Bay, jules and I just the two of us we had one of those tiny little plunge pools.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I was on my own doing a whirlpool.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Jules wasn't even getting involved in it.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I was like crazy person on my own and it worked.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, whirlwinds and whirlpools I think everybody can relate to, because what that feels like is just spinning.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: You're spinning your wheels and you're not actually getting anywhere.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: So it's probably more than you know when you're stuck and I talk about doing emails or stuff that you know doesn't move the dial this could be things where you're constantly moving, constantly taking action.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: There's no sort of breaks in between the action you're taking, but it still feels like you're not progressing and perhaps you're actually not shifting the dial in the areas that matter the most.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Sure, you're getting a lot of things ticked off your list and I remember when I used to do lists in my corporate career, it would be a list of brain dumps and then I just worked through the list to do the quickest one, not the one that's most meaningful.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: So no wonder I felt at the end of a lot of days that I feel like I've walked in the door, been here for eight hours and I haven't been productive, because it's all the things that aren't actually moving the dial, but there's no reflection or downtime on that.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: To say, hey, hang on, is what I'm working on, really making a difference and getting me to where I want to be.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Definitely, tasks for the sake of tasks, that whole sense of accomplishment for sure.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: So, ness, we want to move away from being stuck, we want to move away from the whirlwind or the whirlpool, and we want to move away from ineffective.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: What's the ultimate?
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: goal here?
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Well, the healthy hustle version of it is momentum.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: So this is around finding the flow, striking that balance between taking action and staying grounded, so there's enough downtime that you can handle the challenges with ease, so that this spiral thinking doesn't become the first response, your tasks that you are working on actually meaningful and moving you closer to where you want to go.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: And so I think that there's so much around the way you set yourself up to succeed.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: That's important here, and I'm not suggesting that this is a done and forget.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: You know, like, oh, I'm in momentum and this is how I'm going to be forever, because there are peaks and troughs, like we just opened up with.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: You know, this week's a bit crazy, so I'm finding myself jumping around all over the place with this model.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: But the benefit of having the model in front of you is, or you know, in your mind, is to acknowledge where you are and then work out how to move from that.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Is it the action taking or is it the space and grace?
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: And maybe that could be a good wrap up point and a good actionable action for the next 24 hours.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: What do you reckon?
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Let's keep it really simple.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: If you resonated with maybe a little bit more of the space and grace, the navel gazing the so much too much focus on mindset.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: That's important.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: We talk about that a lot.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: The woe is me, the why.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: What's wrong with me?
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's about taking some action.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Just do one thing and if you're in the whirlwind or the whirlpool, think about how can I create a little point of space in my day?
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's a micro moment.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: So look at which end of the spectrum you're on.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Take one schedule, one thing from the other side, either doing or being Great, actionable action for the week.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us everybody.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: See you next time.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to today's ep.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: If you loved what you heard, connect with us over on LinkedIn and let's continue the conversation over there.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Did you hear?
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: You can now buy our book Healthy Hustle the new blueprint to thrive in business and life, at healthyhustlecomau.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Want us to speak to your team or run a workshop on healthy hustle in your workplace?
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Send us an email, or go old school and give us a call to discuss.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Until next time, happy listening and here's to thriving in business and life.