Latest / The Common Sense Revolution Podcast / Ep 6: Kemi's 'no drama' Party Conference
Transcript
- Gavin Megaw: Four days in Birmingham and the Conservative Party seems to have come out looking better than at any point since the last election. The battleground with Labour is now very, very clear. There were announcements by the armful, and a leader who spoke for over an hour, kept a hole with her, and sent the delegates home with a spring in their step. Welcome to the Common Sense Revolution. I'm Gavin McGaugh, and with me as ever are Patrick Kidd and Peter Franklin. So let's get right into what happened in Birmingham this week. Peter, now it's over. What's this conference tell us about the overarching conservative strategy? Peter: Well, I think what it reveals is what quite a few analysts have already discovered from their conversations with conservative insiders, which is that we're looking at a two-phase strategy. Firstly, get back ex-conservatives that have gone over to Labour, the Lib Dems, the Greens in especially the home counties, the south of England, not only At the last election, but even before that, in the wake of Brexit. They think those people can be won back, mostly on an economic prospectus, right? And we heard a lot about those people's economic interests, especially their homes, and we'll come on to this later, I'm sure. So they think that conservative strategists think that. If they can win back enough of those people, then once again they will be seen as the most competitive right of centre party in a lot of seats, a lot more seats than at the moment. And that brings in the second phase, which is that they win back reform voters who are only voting reform because they see reform as the best way. Of stopping Labour or the Lib Dems winning in these southern seats. So it's a two phase. First of all, pivot to the well, not exactly pivot to the left, but appeal to those well heeled but sort of leftish voters. And then use that heft to bring in from the right the reform voters. So a double whammy one, two, but in that order. Gavin Megaw: Patrick, we saw last week Andy Burnham target the left side of politics and kind of ignore reform. the Tories kind of ignored reform. They took the Mickey out of them, but they ignored their policies this week as well. is that a mistake? Patrick: Well, think Hemi Badenok was pretty punchy on reform for the section she gave to it. She made that bit about how her children want to watch the England football team and feel that they are watching English players, whatever their skin colour. But you're right, there wasn't a huge amount. of taking apart reform policies because there aren't a huge amount of reform policies to be honest. This was definitely though responding to the challenge that Burnham set last week. We discussed this in our last podcast about philosophical dividing lines. Burnham set up very much that he believes the Labour Party should be, well the handout party if you like, they should be there for those in need, the states should take control, the nationalising industry is a good thing. And this was Kimmy Badenock then going the other way and saying actually the Conservatives are about aspiration and wealth and from that productivity. And so I think that's quite exciting and interesting that they are both still standing by their traditional but perhaps not exercised positions. I'm slightly worried that she took on Paddington Bear. There was a moment when she had a pop at Burnham for being the party of Paddington. I think Paddington was quite liked in this country. And so, you know, when Liz Truss bumped off the late Queen, it was Paddington that took her up to heaven, let's not forget. So I'd be cautious about that. But I like the idea of not forgetting that the Lib Dems picked up a lot of votes from the Conservatives. I didn't see a huge number of policies that talked about how they will get them back, though. Those with means, those with mansions, those with inheritance, etc. are being courted. But I just wonder, just trying to make ends meet on a good salary, people need to also have policies for them. Gavin Megaw: I suppose they would argue it's about aspiration and that's worked in the past. and they're hopeful it's going to work again. But I think that takes you really to the main point here, because the strategy seems to be one about restoring some credibility for the Conservative Party. And I think they did a really good job this week in doing that. And we'll come on to some of the minutiae of that in a bit. But they're not going to win an election as it stands. They need more, they need events to intervene. And it seems to me Andy Burnham's betting that events won't intervene. He's trying to buy as much time, which is probably why, as last week, Peter suggested there might be an earlier election than he says. but Kemi and the Conservative Party do need something to intervene to stand a real chance. and they're just trying to set themselves up. The strategy is be as credible as we can so we can take advantage of any situation. Is that fair, Peter? Peter: I'm not sure if it is about credibility. I think yes, we've had plenty of warnings that the the country is overborrowed. and that is certainly the case. And if and also that we're spending too much on welfare, etc. Those messages were fairly clear. I think they could have been clearer. I think we should have had a much more stark warning. I think That Kemi should have looked the nation in the eye and said that we are, you know, on the brink of something very serious indeed. this week, if you look at I'm sorry to get all sort of sort of economics nerdy about this, but if you look at the sort of bond yields across Europe and especially France, there is Very worrying spike in bond yields at the moment, which basically means that the money markets are worried about Western governments borrowing too much and are worrying about them defaulting on that debt, Greek style. if something like that or anything like that happens soon, then I think I really would have liked to have seen a very explicit warning. And I would have liked to have seen you know, basically the the approach being, you know, remember what we told you. And I think that could have been a spit starker, and it was lost it's partly lost in amongst a lot of other messaging. Gavin Megaw: Yeah, we'll come back to that in a second because I do think there was a lot of announcements that maybe confused Peter: Yes. Gavin Megaw: it a little bit, and we were encouraging simplicity in advance last week in the podcast. And I think you've hit me on the head there because we are seeing a very, very challenging economic climate globally. not just in Europe. It's a global problem this and Peter: Yes. Gavin Megaw: it's not going to go away, is it? Patrick, there was interesting. polling of it came out this week, which I think sort of helps with thinking through the strategy that conservatives are pushing ahead with, and it was supermarkets. Do you want to explain that? Patrick: Yes, so this was by Moore and Common who were looking at the voting habits and where people shop. And Marks and Spencer's, a firm that was riding high at one stage then was having a bit of a trough but is now coming back up again, is most favored by conservative voters. And I think that's interesting. They've reinvented the brand without actually forgetting its tradition. They have discovered things that people actually want to buy. They are a presence on the high street, although slightly dwindling one. And they are run by a Tory, Archie Norman, who we remember from our time in central office is the chairman. And so, you know, it shows us how you can take a strategy of revival. And as long as you've got the vision and the confidence to go with it, people can come back to you. That's the message of the choice. On the flip side, however, Waitrose is going labour, which I think maybe in the past the Conservatives would have hoped to carry the Kalamata, Olive and Hummus market. that's still very strongly pro-Burnham. are then seeing sort of the Alders and the Morrisons are veering towards reform. Gavin Megaw: Yeah, there's always these interesting pieces of pawing, aren't around Witros and Gales bakery and things like that. Patrick: Well, so Gales Bakery, could map where a new Gales opened, it was more likely to go Lib Dem. But these were constituencies that had been conservatives in the past. I Gales, which I think is overpriced, to be honest, should be an aspirant, a Tory sort of business. Meanwhile, Greggs is perhaps going to be more reform. Gavin Megaw: Well, look, let's move on to the actual conference itself, the mood and the announcements and the speeches, because there was a plethora of announcements in the lead up to it and during it. And again, I just think that's quite surprising. I don't think it was necessarily needed, but I think they were trying to really get those in attendance, the delegates feeling good. about the Conservative Party again and showing the media there was things to be said. It all started though with a unveiling of the right way, by Kemi Badenok. Peter, do you want to talk us through that? Peter: Yeah, it's basically a sort of semi philosophical justification of the current approach. it's gone down quite well with a lot of more thoughtful conservatives. It's very much inspired by Roger Scruton and Thomas Sowell, the American Conservative. And those are personal heroes of Kenny Badelock. So I don't know who wrote those thirty thousand words. I'd imagine the number of people have read through the whole lot. It's probably quite small, rather less than thirty thousand, I'd say. But nevertheless, Gavin Megaw: Have you have you read it all, Peter? Have you read it all? Peter: nevertheless, I think it it it gave it served a purpose in saying that we are now based on firm conservative principles. We're not gonna go back to the sort of all over the place thinking that characterised previous Conservative leaders. Gavin Megaw: Have you read it all, Peter? You didn't answer that. Peter: no. I was hoping Gavin Megaw: There we go. Patrick, have you read it? Peter: I was hoping to distract you with sort of general statistics, but no I haven't. I've been too busy basically listening to the speeches, not not just of Kemi Badenock, of course, who everyone is focusing on, but the other shadow cabinet members, to see who really is cutting it, and perhaps we could come on to that. Gavin Megaw: Yes, but we have to ask Patrick whether he's read it. Patrick: It's on my bedside table just beneath Biggles. No, I haven't read it. I mean, you were talking about making a big start and as well as the philosophical, it's also good to have something that catches the eye and gets people talking about you. And they unveiled their version of the Biotapestry. This sort of 70 foot AI generated depiction of events of the last couple of years. I mean, it was quite witty. It was very cleverly had... I think 15 members of the press were depicted in it, which guaranteed that those 15 would all be talking about it and tweeting it. And it made some points about negative things that happened in the country. That just got people talking. But actually, I wasn't at the conference myself, but speaking to people who were there, it began quite flat. I got a text here from a journalist who said, is a really lifeless conference. He said, there's not much energy. Now, that's better than last year's conference, when of course they came in and there was all the discussion about she's a dead woman walking. I think this time they just thought, well, Kemi is the leader, no one's plotting against her. We'd like to hear from her, but really, there wasn't much. spark. think her speech did provide a bit of that spark, but what I'd like to know is what's going on in the background, the donors, the chats, the people who, especially if there's going to be an early election, who are dipping into their pockets to help the party, because ultimately no one in the public pays attention to the conference. It's really a way of pleasing those who are going to work for you on the doorstep and raising money to ensure that the campaign is funded. Gavin Megaw: I got some intel from the conference floor which I think is interesting on this, and I think it can be summed up by they got away with it, but they should be very happy with the way they got away with it, because I think the operations behind the scenes and the press team have really played a blinder this week. Every picture of Kemi has been a positive one. It has appeared in newspapers, and that's not always the case. They have managed to make it look like a really good event. But what I've been told by people who are on the grind is there was less spark and more a lot of sparse looking rooms. lots of people were not there. It certainly was nowhere near the numbers of previous conferences. the bio tapestry, the mock one of Labour, that was a genius move. But it was a genius move because it filled an exhibition hall that was near empty in terms of bookings. So they used that to fill empty space and got headlines positively. So I think again, that just shows a really good operational team behind the scenes, looking at problems and dealing with them effectively. The exhibition hall, apparently lots of people were given bigger stands at the last minute because there just was not the bookings they expected. So it's actually a tough situation. And that will have hit the finances as well. But they got away with it because they got the photos right. They got the headlines right and they've got through with everyone thinking it's a really positive week. And I would say well done to everyone involved on that. Patrick: in the main hall as well. I I read that they had actually covered up some of the stalls seating and put an artificial floor in to make it not look so empty. But of course, Jeremy Clarkson, and a big, big get to get Clarkson to come and speak at the conference, by the way, he made a joke about how many people would come dressed as empty seats. And so there is that missing vibe and spark. But, you know, as you say, being capable and competent and just not having disasters. There were no embarrassing memoirs. There were no scandals. mean, someone said to me that as long as the shagging is only happening within the parliamentary party rather than with members of staff, then we're getting away with it. I've not heard, we'll see what happens in the Sunday papers maybe, but I don't think there was any of the disasters of the past. The set didn't collapse. There weren't protests. It was all quite capable and a bit boring Gavin Megaw: Yeah. Patrick: and maybe that's what we need is a bit boring Gavin Megaw: I think BitBoring was probably sensible. And Peter, from your perspective, what about the announcements and the speeches other than Cammy that you saw and watched? Peter: Well, the one of the most significant I think was this announcement of putting ten billion pounds into the Britannia Shield missile defence system, which i it's in a way it's quite extraordinary that opposition party conference is announcing defence systems. But evidently a system that this country doesn't have. And with drone technology and missile technology being what it is these days and evolving very fast, it's it's very odd that this country doesn't have that system already in place. so I think that in itself was a good hit. And I think that the shadow defense spokesman James Cartlich did a really good job. Actually his was one of the better Shadow Cabinet speeches. alongside Tom Tuganhartz they did a sort of a a session together. that was good. Less good was when Kemi Badenock was asked about this in the wake of a lot of front bench ha headlines saying the Iron Dome Lady, right? The Iron Dome being the Israeli missile defence system. and she seemed a little under briefed as to the details of this system, and I think that was a mistake. She should have been able to answer a few more questions. Gavin Megaw: Patrick, do you think it matters what the shadow cabinet says at these type of things, or is it all about Kemi, V Andy, v Nigel these days? Patrick: I think that's probably right. I think that you have to be a particular nerd to be paying much attention to Shadow Cabinet speeches, or there has to be a particularly good policy, or there has to be a fairly massive cock-up for it to get any attention. I think slightly damp-scrib speeches just pass on by, and again, it's a little being glad to get away with it. But I think what you want is to have an air of capability. I heard a wonderful phrase last week. I was chatting to a colleague on The Observer, Erica Wagner, who said she'd been to see that film Pressure about the D-Day preparations. And you know how the meteorology saved the D-Day because they were able to analyse exactly when they should attack. And then she also mentioned she's really enjoyed this new film about Charles de Gaulle, which is going down very well. And she said she refers to them as competence porn. She said, in the world we've had in last few years, films about people doing their jobs competently are actually really quite attractive. And I think if the tourist can radiate an image of being competent, I know it sounds like a basic thing to request, then that's actually going to really help. think people are fed up with chaos. So boring and capable matter. Peter: I agree with Patrick there very much. Competence at the moment does seem to be as a bit of a premium, and if we can offer it, brilliant. But having said that, there were some other shadow cabinet speeches that didn't look competent at all. I'm not gonna name names, well, apart from Andrew Griffith, who somehow managed to just walk off at the end of his speech to no applause. and to the evident surprise of the audience. And it just looked very odd. And I do think that some people, some not just him, but others in the shadow cabinet really do need more training on how to give a speech. it is needed and it was one of the more obvious holes in the conference this week, though I agree with you, overall the stage management, both on stage and around the conference, has been very good, but there are some people that definitely need to be told how to present themselves and how to deliver a speech. Patrick: Can I just add at this Gavin Megaw: I Patrick: point that it will be very interesting to see who comes back into the party. They are now selecting candidates for seats. I saw that Penny Mordant is now, doesn't have a seat but is on the list and she got sneered at by, was it Jenrick or Braverman? One of the Reform X Tories. But I think people like Penny will be adding stuff to the party. again, this comes back to what we said at the beginning, that if you're going to appeal to both wings, having some experience and people that reform may not think a good conservative is actually going to appeal to some of the Lib Dem voters. Gavin Megaw: Yeah. I just look, my view is it's a really tough week for a lot of these shadow cabinet members in new jobs. They're rushing around fringe events, they're making a number of announcements, they're standing there and delivering speeches they've probably not had time to properly get into. we don't know what's going on behind the scenes in terms of approval of speeches, whether there's blockages, etc., from the leader's office or from the central office team. So These things can be chaos. so I sort of give them the benefit of the doubt in this situation. And also, no one is really watching. You get a few sketchwriters, you get geeks like Peter watching it all, but that is it. And I don't think it matters. I think the party looked competent this week, which will surprise many actually, given the chaos of recent years, including governmental years. and I think that's a step forward. So that's Patrick: As ever, I was going to say as ever, we look for the weekend polling to see if there's been any sort of bounce. And you're right, I how can there be a bounce when no one's paying attention? The choice must... Gavin Megaw: But Binces aren't real, Patrick, as well. Binces, every party gets a small so called bounce immediately, but then it disappears again. Patrick: Yes, that's true too. Gavin Megaw: and your history has proven that. So I Patrick: Yeah, indeed. Gavin Megaw: I don't think we can read too much in terms of the polling just around conference. I think this is a combining effect around credibility. And I think that's what I would say the strategy should really be. It should be about combining credibility over the next six months, just in case there is an election. Patrick: But that's the general point, you're absolutely right. But the Conservative polling hasn't really changed from a year ago. Kimmy's personal polling has shot up. The polling over a former Farage has gone down. Labour have had a slight increase. But actually the party's pretty much where they were. And that's not in a position in which they are going to win an election. But Peter might disagree here. Peter: Okay, there is a slight correction to that from my point of view. I did look up the polling averages. prepare yourself for some percentages. this time last year, our polling average was 17.8%. This time this year, it is 19.8%, so two percentage points. Now that might not seem massive, but it does make the difference between us sinking down to minor party status to us possibly being able to come second. Now obviously that's nowhere near enough to make us come first, but if we can stop Farage from becoming the leader of the opposition, should there be an early election? That in itself is really important. obviously, if we're looking at a twenty twenty nine election, we've got a huge amount of s of territory to make up, but what we've done so far to stabilise and to slightly improve that is no mean feat, especially given the fact that you've had all those defections to reform earlier in the year. You had some big losses in the local elections and you had a switch from an unpopular to a very popular prime minister, and our poll rating has stood up whilst that of reform has not quite collapsed but taken a huge dent, and that is that is something if not exactly worth celebrating and at least expressing a degree of relief. Patrick: And sometimes staying in there is what matters. know from my career as a sports reporter that actually, you know, clinging onto the shoulder of the pacemaker and then having a spurt can be the very good strategy. I just want to chuck in, I wonder what the state of the Green Party polling is going to do for Labour. Because there was a point a year or so ago when they were riding high, they were winning parliamentary by-elections, they had good local elections, but the last few months the Greens are tanking a bit. I mean, they had... a very controversial conference in which they decided to vote to declare that Zionism is racism, which has upset an awful lot of people because it could be characterised as an anti-Semitic position. Polanski seems to be getting up people's noses. We have the by-election in Hoban and St Pancras, which I think he had to stand in. That's happening as we speak. And the expectation is that he's going to come fairly distant behind the Labour win. If the Greens aren't pulling away some of Labour's voters, then that obviously makes it easier for Labour to get a bigger poll number. Gavin Megaw: Yes, absolutely. And also that sort of presidential style of politics where people are backing leaders rather than parties is going to be interesting in all of this and how things work through. so that sort of leads us on to Kemi and her speech, because we are in a more presidential style of politics than we have been for a while. The last election, I think it was fifty-two percent of all media appearances were made by the leaders, and that's when both of them weren't that popular. in the previous 2019 election, it was fifty-nine percent of appearances were made by the leaders of the respective parties. And we're gonna see this more and more, I think, with Andy Burdham and Kemi and Nigel Farage going forward. But what did we learn from Kemi's speech, both in policy terms and her ability to compete in a sort of more presidential election campaign? Peter: I think that in terms of that latter point, looking presidential, the party's incredibly lucky to have her. I think there's only possibly at the moment one other person in the shadow cabinets that could project that vibe if s if if something were to happen to Kevby. and that is Tom Tuggenhart, but She is head and shoulders above everyone right now. And interestingly, Tugan Hart acknowledged that very clearly in his speech. and I think that there is I do have more concerns on the policy side. there was a key phrase that she used in her speech, towards the end, as part of the peroration. in which in which she claimed that of all the very many policy announcements that we had, there was something for everyone. That's just not true. There is something for every well heeled resident of the home counties, but in terms of making housing more affordable, the policies that were announced just do not cut the mustard at all. And at some point we should have a proper deep dive into housing policy. But there's nothing in there that will make anyone under the age of 40 or even 50 who's still aspiring to buy a home. There's nothing in there that's actually going to change their situation. And even the announcement on, we're going to get rid of all these regulations about energy standards and things like that. well. Those energy standards are about making homes energy efficiency and cutting people's bills. The idea that, we're just going to get rid of all of that, go back to leaky drafty houses, poorly built, and that this is going to cost cut fifty thousand pounds from from the average cost of a house. None of that is credible. And so I was really disappointed by the weakness of the offer there. Gavin Megaw: Patrick, what about the performance? Was that credible? Patrick: Yeah, I mean she has now been in the job a couple of years, she's growing in confidence. Sometimes you can be over confident and get people's backs up, but actually I think she's growing in warmth, possibly likeability. People I speak to are noticing her and they say they quite like her punch, but not because she's starting a fight, but because she actually has passion and she has vision and she wants to do something. I think there's still time for the nation to get to know her better and of course come election you have all the of the sofa interviews where you know she will be grilled about her jam making skills and all these things that apparently matter in elections but I think she did all right. As ever it was too long a speech. I don't know why they speak for an hour at party conferences but they do. There is something hanging over all of this, which is the budget. Peter's right about there not being some big expense policy announcements. That's because they're not quite sure what Labour are going to say and they need to see what they say and respond to that. In three weeks' time, we may then see battle lines being properly drawn. Gavin Megaw: Yeah, I think it's fair to say that the budget may well be more consequential in terms of any of the standings and anything else from both sides. and I think we sort of touched on that in recent weeks as well. I mean, my view is Andy Burnham's not got three years, he's got three weeks really to sort out what he's going to do. and we'll see that at the budget. But in terms of Kemi's speech, there is an interesting section on identity, which I know you will have been listening closely to, Peter, given our discussion a couple of weeks ago. Peter: she's targeting reform very clearly. once again, Suela Braverman is Gavin Megaw: Is it targeting or attacking reform? Peter: very stubbornly sticking to her line that she's not English, despite s spending all of her life in i in England and sounding English and and and all of that. And this sort of weird denial that Englishness has a cultural aspect as well as obviously, you know, where your great-great-great-grandfather lived and all of that. and it's just bizarre. And I think as Patrick mentioned, she very, very effectively made the point saying, my children that are, you know, half black, half white, they're obviously living in England. Are they supposed to think that the England team is not their team. It's obviously ridiculous. And she she absolutely nailed reform on that nonsense. And reform need to make it very clear. Farage needs to make it very clear that actually he doesn't share Braverman's opinion. because it it is it it's it's an issue that keeps on coming back. This is the thing. And I think it's it's it's it needs to be put to bed, and Farage needs to act upon that now. Where I think Cammy missed a trick, she did mention as part of this identity section what happened at the Green Party conference. I think she should have gone a bit further and say that the Greens have put themselves beyond the pale on this, and that None of the other parties should even think of ever going into coalition or doing a deal with the Greens in any context, especially a post-election formation of government context. And I think she could have really hammered that point home and actually put the Lydams and Labour on the defensive because they may well consider. a deal with the Greens as part of a a left wing coalition. So I think she missed a trick there. Gavin Megaw: And Patrick, she started the speech by paying tribute to Geoffrey Archer, who I know you have seen at conference many times. Patrick: Well, mean, Archer was a great rouser of the party faithful. He was made deputy chairman by Thatcher because he was brilliant at going around the rubber chicken circuit, schmoozing people, cheering them up. He was exceptionally good at auctions, fundraising things. He had an awful lot of flaws as well, of course. I've written the obituary of him for the Observer this week. And I begin by a quote from Mary Archer, his wife, who just said life with Jeffrey is never dull and that's one hell of an understatement I think. But you know he was a man who sold huge numbers of books. Apparently he once asked his editor if he had any chance of winning the Nobel Prize or at least the Booker and it had to be pointed out that authors like him didn't tend to win those sort of prizes. But he knew his limitations but he could, and this is a political skill, he could write what people wanted to read and similarly politicians if they can somehow themselves as someone people want to vote for. That's a real talent. There's just one lovely story about an archer that I couldn't fit into my obit though, which is worth sharing in conference week. There's three journalists who were in his room chatting in the the 80s and he said, I'm terribly sorry you have to go out now just for a minute I've got to take a very important phone call from Margaret Thatcher. And so they went out of the room and as they were standing in the corridor, Nicola Soames came along and asked what they were doing and they said, well, Geoffrey said he's asked us to step outside while he speaks to Thatcher. And Soames said, well, that can't be true. And he pointed to the television and Thatcher was actually on the stage giving a speech. But this was Arthur Clelley. He was a wonderful presenter of his own image. And as I said in the obit, he could be charitably described as a bit of a rogue and Geoffrey did an awful lot for charity. Gavin Megaw: Yeah, that matches my recollections as well. And it's probably best given that this is the week he passed away. We don't go into the stories around our time at Central Office and what happened there. But I will tell you when I was in youth politics, he invited me to his penthouse in London, an extraordinary penthouse flat overlooking Westminster. It's actually based on the Fauxall side of the river, and he was trying to convince me that I should vote for him to be Mayor of London and also bring a block vote, which I was not in a position to do. As you arrive in his penthouse flat, you're you're welcomed by extraordinary works of art on the walls and led through to the view of Parliament in the background. And you get placed by the butler on a sofa with Parliament behind. So it's always in view of you where Archer sits down, so Archer sits with his back to Parliament, and either side of him are copies of his books, always hard back, and also pictures of him running through the tape in a sprint race and obviously winning. and it's all reinforcing that personality and his success. And there's pictures of him with royalty and presidents and prime ministers around the world as well. and it's a hell of a thing to see when you're a youngster, sort of on the fringes of politics. So a very interesting character, for sure. Patrick: That pentel you mentioned used to belong to John Barry, the composer of the James Bond music, and Archer was quite tickled that it meant he inherited a phone number that ended 007. But you're right, he would tell people to go to the loo and say you go past the Picasso and turn left at the Matisse. I mean, whatever you may think. He was flamboyant in California. could build networks. Only Jeffrey Archer could be sent to prison and when on day release could go off for a champagne reception at a former cabinet minister's house, which got him into a bit of trouble because that's not really what you're meant to do when you're granted day release by the prison governor. And of course, he wrote three books, a prison diary. So, know, I included in my obituary lovely phrase from 1993 by one of his parliamentary colleagues who said, Jeffrey is unputdownable unlike his books. Gavin Megaw: right. So let's get into whether this has been a good week for the Conservative Party or a bad week for the Conservative Party. Peter, let's start with you. A up week or a down week? Peter: It was a down week until Kemi Badenark started speaking. I think that there was a very low energy start to the conference. I think there were some tough stage performances, and I think there were far too many announcements and a lack of clarity as to messaging, but no one's gonna remember any of that because we do have a genuine star. in terms of performance as leader and once again she delivered. So I guess that has to mean on balance enough. Patrick: Look at the front pages. You know, the day after her conference speech, she has got glowing comments. There hasn't been scandal. Competence and a lack of cock-up is, you have to say, is the minimum you'd hope for. But actually, that is a good thing. And so we will see whether the polls shift. But I think actually she can be pleased with this conference. Gavin Megaw: Yeah, and we mentioned last week that often going into party conference season, people are on the defensive trying to avoid the cock ups. And I think this was really about combining the credibility that we mentioned earlier. And I think that's a very good week. I think it's a better week than Peter suggests. I think it was already a good week before she stood up to deliver her speech as party leader. and I think they'll be delighted because it could have been much, much worse given how it looked maybe a couple of weeks out from the inside, based on the intel I'm picking up. So that is interesting, I think. And yeah, they will be very, very pleased. Right. What about recommendations then? Patrick, what have you got to recommend to our listeners this week? Patrick: Well this is the bit when I say something and you give that sort of slight Gavin smirk as if you're so on brand, you're going to say. And my recommendation is something that is going to be broadcast this coming Sunday on Radio 3. They have a wonderful program called Words and Music. There's that smirk, it's filling. And Words and Music combines, as you would expect, extracts of... music and readings on a theme. This week to mark the centenary of Choral Evensong being broadcast on the BBC, it is on the Parish Church and there were some wonderful readings from people like John Betjeman and Thomas Gray and there were some great pieces of music but there was also a bit from P.G. Woodhouse on the Great Sermon Handicap which is a wonderful short story. The reason I know all this is my wife is the producer so I've had a sneak peek. It's a wonderful and anyone who likes to listen to that sort of cosy Sunday evening, I think it's seven o'clock, go and do that. You'll feel happier with the world. Gavin Megaw: Fabulous. Peter, what about you? Peter: My recommendation is I wouldn't normally recommend the Tucker Carlson show podcasts. definitely not. I used to be a Tucker fan, I think he's gone he's lost his way very, very badly and has drifted off into this sort of weird pro Russian sort of almost anti Western sort of twilight zone. It's very sad to see what's happened. But his interview, he had an interview with Jacob Reese Mogg at Jacob Reese Mogg's house. And he Mogg, that is, absolutely knocked it out of the park. typically of Carlson, he said some really weird stuff about why you try to pick a fight. The Russians, and then got into this bizarre sort of idea that we'd made the same mistake in the Second World War and questioned the whole basis of us standing up to Nazi Germany and asked over and over again what possible benefit did this have to Britain? Well, you know, it was fairly obvious what the benefit. Was we stopped the most r evil regime, or one of the very most evil regimes in human history. And for a time, Britain and our and the British Empire did stand alone against Hitler. And Bok was very good in a very understated, very polite way of saying, well, you know, that achievement speaks for itself. And it was a fantastic performance from him. And possibly after, not including Kenny Badenock, the best Tory performance of the week, and it wasn't even that conference. Patrick: Morgue was superb and there was just... one bit when he said, know, flippantly, amid there was lots of serious points he made, but you know, if we hadn't taken on Hitler, we'd all be speaking German. And Tucker Carlson said, well, at least it would be a European language, unlike Britain today. I thought, what an odious, awful, small man. And the trouble is there will be some reform voters who love that and think that Britain is turning into a country where it would be better to speak Russian than some Asian language. It's appalling and Mogg was brilliant. Gavin Megaw: Yeah, he really was. Peter: And there was another bizarre moment where Carlson suggested that the Russian economy was bigger than Britain's. And Reesmark very, very sort of in a in his very understated way, just put him right on that and just said, actually, we've GDP wise, we're basically twice as big. And Carlson Carlson came back with the With an odd sense that, but they've got more resources, they've got a bigger land area. And and Reesebog just came back and said, Yes, and look how little they've done with it. You know, despite having also also having a a population which is basically twice as big as ours. Their GDP per capita is is really disappointing. for a country that should be as rich as America, but isn't because of a deeply corrupt and exploitative political system. And I think it's wonderful to see people say, what do we do about you know the populist right when it just goes totally off the rails? Well I think we engage with them and we deal with them calmly politely fact based and Jacob Rees Mogg, I wasn't that big a fan of him before, but now I think, you know, he I'm a massive fan now because that was fantastic. It was a really important moment and I think it will have changed minds. Gavin Megaw: Yeah, well said, Peter. I think it was a a great thing to watch. And the arrogance of Tucker Carlson was extraordinary through right. Look, I'm gonna go rogue with my recommendation this week, guys. I was like any middle-aged man, spending some time in a vinyl store in Bangor in Northern Ireland, over the weekend, and the preparator there, who's a brilliant guy, recommended a band to me which I hadn't heard of, and I went away and listened and then went back and bought their album. And it's a band called Walt Disco, a six-piece band from Glasgow who do a mix of sort of post-punk, new romantic, electro pop type stuff. So if you think Bowie mixed with Roxy music, Orange Juice, and Franz Ferdinand, that's the sort of feel of it. And it's brilliant. And I love finding new music. It's probably not new for many people out there, but it was certainly new for me. And I just loved it. So well worth listening to their latest album, which is also called Walt Disney. disco. and that's it this week for the Common Sense Revolution. we hope you enjoyed it. If you agreed or disagreed, please let us know. Please also subscribe and leave a review because that's how anyone else finds us. And we'll be back next week. We'll see you then.