Latest / TWO GUYS IN TIES / #8 - From the Field

Transcript

#8 - From the Field · TWO GUYS IN TIES

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're listening to Two Guys in Ties.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, we're back.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Mitch, World Traveler.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: How was Portugal?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was much more of a mental break than I thought I needed.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you've had mental overload lately.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe on the way, trying to grow a business.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh got my hands full both at home and on the field.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I gotta ask you, what did you think of the bar I met your mom at in Madrid?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: So Mitch went to Madrid for a couple days and then Portugal.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: How long were you in Madrid?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: About three days.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then Portugal for like two weeks?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to do that.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: He went and found the bar that I met his mom at back in 1989.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: What is that?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: 27, almost 28 years ago.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: January of 89.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: What'd you think of the bar?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was a lot nicer than I was expecting.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was a little hole in the wall, still a small bar, but it's like one of the one of the renowned bars in Madrid, and it's just off the Plaza Monroe.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's a cool place.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you guys hang out?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we had we hung out.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: We got a diet coke because I don't drink and she's pregnant, so she doesn't drink.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it was right in the heart of Madrid.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was a really cool location.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Any highlights from the trip overall?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think uh one of the big highlights is I gotta see.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you know Matias, one of my best friends, who's Danitian.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: We met during college when he was studying abroad, so it was always cool to be able to see him.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it was actually our 10-year anniversary of when we met, and we talked about how we've been able to maintain a decade-long friendship living across the world and making the effort to see each other almost every year.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's amazing.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, you guys went to San Diego State for was he there just a semester?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: One semester.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he still works for Novonorsk.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Huge uh GLP one European company.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Stock.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're the most valuable company in Europe, aren't they?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: I believe so, yeah.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, unbelievable.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, both of you guys have done extremely well.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're both early 30s and you got killer careers.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love hanging out with Matias.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Glad you guys got to hang out.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was really awesome.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I know you just got back.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're probably a little jet-lagged.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to do a couple of jumping jacks here just to like get your energy going?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Get the blood flowing.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see, you were back in a couple days last week.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to talk a little bit about like things we've learned from our businesses in the last couple weeks.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because let's not forget, our our reason for doing this is to share our wisdom, our ideas, our experience on how people can develop incredible careers, right?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Great career path development.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: You are the CEO of your career.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let's not forget that.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And also job search and how to make sure they find the right job.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So keeping on that theme and making sure that we continue to uh share that wisdom.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to share things that we learned in our businesses over the prior week or two weeks or whatever.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: But uh anything, uh I know you were only working a couple days last week.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Anything come up?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, there's a story actually the day before I left for my trip because we've been trying to grow and desperately try to hire people who are great to build our team uh with the amount of business coming in.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we had a gal we really liked who was a referral from one of our employees just to give some background.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: We were gonna talk to her at the beginning of the year when she was starting to look for something.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she'd been in her company about a year, year and a half at that point, and they got a promotion and decided to stay.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are, you know, six months later.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Ended up giving her an offer.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: And wait, you guys just gave her an offer.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: You guys.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Six months later.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, got it.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Gave her an offer uh and she got another promotion, decided to stay.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the interesting again?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: At her own company.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: After interviewing with you twice.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: She interviewed once, but she had talked to our employee about interviewing earlier in the year and then decided, hey, I'm gonna stay put and see this through.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: The most interesting thing, and the thing I the thing I think this could be valuable for the listeners, is she made it clear her company and her industry is not an industry she sees herself in long term.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so whether we were the right company or not, it's interesting to see that the band-aid of the situation, I guess you could say, right?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's solving the the symptom, not the root cause, because she's staying at a company and staying in an industry that she knows she isn't really that interested in long-term in her career.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she must be faking it well because, you know, I think if somebody is not well suited or well aligned with the goals and the vision of the company, then it feels like they're taking the role of somebody who could be really passionate in that company.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things I love about our coaching, somebody would ask me, uh, perspective client, hey, does this help retention?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I always say it helps the right retention because sometimes there are people that are trying to be aligned with what you're doing, but they're just kind of faking it.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're not really aligned.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't want a faker on your front lines.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: You want somebody who is really aligned and passionate about what you're doing and loves what you guys are doing, wants to be on that team and wants to win at all costs.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not somebody who looks like they're doing it, but you can't tell.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes coaches talk them out of it and say, Hey, if this isn't your dream job, why are you doing this?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's another story too, actually, from our business.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: When I was away, we had an offer gate shut down because of a counteroffer for one of our clients' roles.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and the candidate essentially has been at the company six years.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's an interesting role because he is someone above him.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: So he has a ceiling to how high he can grow unless that person leaves.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and at the client's business, there was nobody above him.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: He would have been the head of the function reporting into an owner and a president with really no ceiling to be able to grow with the business.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and he ended up staying put because they matched the comp.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and the interesting thing I thought I'd share with some of these listeners is know the difference of a real promotion and a race.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think this gentleman talked about how he was loyal to the company because he's been promoted every year, uh, year and a half.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: But when you look at what the promotion was, it was a title change and a pay change.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: But he's been doing the same job for six years.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing's really changed with his own.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's really just window dressing.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's not getting exactly versus a true promotion where the scope of what you're doing actually shifts, your role shifts, and you're taking out more responsibility.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's interesting.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, back to the whole faking thing.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I don't want to say that in a negative way.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think people don't really sometimes consciously know they're doing it.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: But deep down, if somebody's exploring a career change twice, potentially twice.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say they talked about it once and then they actually explored it, got to the point where they got an offer, it kind of tells you they don't love what they're doing, right?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: But this is one of the things we talk about.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: People can spend their entire lives and entire careers doing something they're not meant to do.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's sad because yeah, you might get promotions, you got might get more money, but the reality is you're not in the zone.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're not in that place where you don't feel like it's work.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Did this person talk about their job at their current company and and what they didn't like or why they would look they were looking to change?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, big thing was so she was a salesperson and she didn't love the clientele.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: With us, we sell into C level at middle market companies.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: She's selling into small event planning businesses with sometimes only two employees.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the buyer, the sophistication level of the buyer is only so high, dealing with really small kind of SMBs versus more corporate type of sales, which would be like our world.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and also some of it had to do with leadership shifts within her company and her boss getting changed.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And even with the promotion, I don't actually think her manager is gonna change.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, stay tuned.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, maybe there's more on this story.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you never know.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hey, I got a couple of uh thoughts from the field.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and Reagan, cut me off if my stories go too long.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Have I been better on my stories lately, Reagan?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um That's a no.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's a no.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: When you pause like that, it's definitely a no.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, Reagan and I had a great podcast last week.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of fun, Mitch, while you were gone.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Next time I travel, why don't you guys do one, just the two of you?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was it was a kick.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I had a really good time with it.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, people enjoyed that.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but a couple things from the field.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: One is um we started using Chat GPT to uh run people through backgrounds.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing that's neat about it is you can't like there's a company called Reputation Defender that if you had something posted online about you, you could have seven or eight other things posted in front of that to improve your reputation and push things down.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what they do.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've heard this before, at least from some folks, and I've seen it happen where you get negative stuff pushed to page 10 on Google.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Who's looking on page 10?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: But if you run it through chat, chat looks at everything.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I ran um uh we did some some of this on a search I'm working on recently, and it came up with a couple of things that were interesting.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of which I had interviewed the candidate already, and they didn't tell me about.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: The other one, um, I was about to interview the candidate and uh, you know, had been a C-level executive at some pretty big companies, and um chat actually was very positive about this person for the role I'm looking at, but it said, here's a couple things that you need to drill down on.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it gave me very succinct questions to ask about two other public companies this person was involved in, where some other things happened either before they got there or after they left, just to kind of get clarity on it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was amazing.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I asked those questions.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I hadn't asked him if he would have brought them up, right?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so the topic here is kind of like mend your fences.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: The first go-around, what I found was actually not great on somebody, never once brought it up.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And wouldn't you think that some let me ask you this, Mitch.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: If if you're interviewing a candidate and there's something out there that if you find and they never brought it up with you, and you would say, I don't know if I can move forward with this person, what else could they be hiding?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wouldn't you rather them tell you?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And we come across this a lot even in the background check stage with candidates where a really common one is a DUI.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Haven't seen a candidate not get hired for it, but clients definitely question it when it's not brought up up front.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: The best candidates are the ones that say, Hey, I did the background check.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: I want to let you know this could come up.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I listen, I think there is almost no downside because these days you have to assume anything that you've done that's out in public will be public and will come up in the process.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is you won't know maybe why you weren't chosen.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: You might get the polite, you know, hey, thanks again for being a candidate.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we decided to go a different direction, and you will never know.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if you could address it up front, then at least you own it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a huge Reagan.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about all this?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you always put the boyfriend test on people.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how do you feel if somebody's got a black mark out there?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do they hope it doesn't come up and don't bring it up, or do they bring it up?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's definitely always better to bring it up.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Did anybody ever do that with you when you were interviewing, doing recruiting for us?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, because I didn't do it for that long.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious because I I just don't see it a lot.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think people don't own it, you know?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a flaw.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have a good example where the person actually got the job, and I am shocked that they did.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, someone put on the resume that they had a bachelor's degree and went through seven rounds of interviews for a pretty key leadership role, gets the offer, background check starts.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I get a call from him saying, Hey, I just want to let you know I don't have a degree.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't remember if the resume I sent you said I did or not.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: And he had a whole story and it it it made sense, but the bigger concern is why put that you have a bachelor on your resume if you don't.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um how many years of work experience had they had?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: About 16.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: This happened to me many years ago, about 20 years ago.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing a COO search for a company and I had a great candidate.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'd run a billion-dollar business, right?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: He put that on his resume, put it on his LinkedIn, but didn't fill out an application.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is interesting.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So this company is a very high compliance company, very regulated.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they make everybody fill out an application and sign on the bottom of it that they attest that everything they put there is true.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: For this exact reason.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you wouldn't think a COO candidate would have to fill out a job application, right?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever heard of that?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: But in this company, thank God, thank God.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's a very highly compliant company, it's very regulated.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So they literally go through this with don't care if you're a CEO or if you're a rank and file janitor, doesn't matter.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody fills out an app.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: He said, see the write-up from our company.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's what he said on the thing.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the head of HR called me and said, We're having a problem with this.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're not sure.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, let's go through with the background check.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: We went through, it turns out he didn't graduate, but he, and he didn't, it wasn't like a lot.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was less than a year.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: His father got sick or parent, I can't remember if it was father or mother.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody got sick.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: He had to drop out of school.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that started from the ground up, worked his way up to be, you know, the number two person at a billion-dollar company, and had incredible work experience.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: My client ultimately said, I can't hire somebody who's gonna hide.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I can't hire somebody who's gonna keep things from me.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't hiring him because of his degree.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was hiring him because of his experience, and I really liked him.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: But if I can't trust him with that, who knows what else I can't trust him with?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I have an interesting this this story will tangent a little bit to something what I find very interesting.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: He ultimately got hired.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: He called me, he was up front about it.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: I called the CEO.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: They thought he's our person, you know, we appreciate at least he was up front about it.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Let's move forward.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Earlier in the search, my team sent two people who didn't have a degree, and they were both disqualified solely for that matter, because the CEO said, Hey, I really picture for this level of leadership.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: We need someone with a degree.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, in some ways, candidates who hide are incentivized because at least he was able to get his foot in the door, sell his credentials to ultimately come clean at the end and still get the job while those two other folks weren't even considered.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we gotta fix this.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of the best entrepreneurs in the world don't have degrees.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Michael Dell, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs never did, never went to college, you know, audited classes in college.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: But some of the best people out there just never finished or they they started businesses in college or never went, period.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm with you, Mitch.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I do think it's a little bit of an epidemic out there and we should do our part.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Reagan, um, I would love people to be able to DM us or email us in in interesting stories about this kind of thing, right?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: If they've had stories about people that they've looked at hiring in the past, or if they have something in their background that they are insecure about, whether they didn't graduate college or um they have a black mark somewhere, we want to answer individuals' questions.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do it anonymously, but if people have that, how can they write in?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can DM us on Instagram at two guys in ties, or you can email us at two guys and ties pod at gmail.com.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: So with Chat GPT, people, there's no there's no place to hide.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't think there is anymore.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So get real.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you did it, you screwed up, own it, talk about it, because it's gonna hurt you anyway.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're not able to put anything over on anybody.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: If if if people aren't taking the 30 seconds to run you through chat, shame on them.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's better, in my in my opinion.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's different, it's complimentary to a background check because it's not looking at colleges and all this other stuff, but it's looking at everything out there that's available.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the things you find on the internet can be worse than what you'll find on the background check.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Finding out someone doesn't have a degree, not the end of the world.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Something on on Google could point to a much more severe conclusion of who that person is.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Character standpoint.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, if they did it, but they learned from it, talk about it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because assuming it comes up and it comes up later, can you imagine being a candidate going through the entire process and the client going through the entire process and this comes out at the end?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: What a waste of everybody's time.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just it's it's bad.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hey, I have uh I have another thought from the field.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: You want to hear it?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know Reagan, you you want to wrangle us, you got us a topic, don't you?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wait, would you guys hire somebody if they had a DUI?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have a good friend who had a DUI.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: He blew 0.08 after having a couple beers one night.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: He's also a pilot, um, and so he had to deal with the FA for about three years.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't drink at all.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, you know what?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I am not drinking if I am even getting in a car, I'm not even having a light beer.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I would.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, I think it happens more than we know.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but come clean.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hey, one other thing from the field.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's going on, but kind of end of summer, I think people are feeling pretty relaxed, and I think the year has been pretty good overall for most companies.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's been good for our company for sure.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so people are in kind of a different mode.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I will tell you, um, even though we've had a really, really bang up year, I was sitting down with one of our folks a couple weeks ago, and I I was looking at their uh actual results year to date for versus budget.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: These are things I love, you know me.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love looking at these things and saying, okay, how do we do better?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: How do we grow?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this person had reduced their goal from last year to this year, and they were beating this year's goal.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what a sandbagger! Why'd they do that?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I asked them, point blake, hey, why'd you cut your goal back?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they went through and told me chapter and verse about what's going on in their industry and why they think it's lower this year and why it's gonna be affected, and literally went on for seven to ten minutes and all very good information.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: But what landed on me was he is effectively determined why he's not gonna have a great year, and that's not the right mindset.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the thing I want to bring in from the field, I had a couple experiences over the last few weeks with mindset.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think he did it?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think he wanted to deliver success, and he was afraid that um the market wasn't gonna work for him.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so he said, let's be realistic about what the market could do.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Let's shoot for a lower goal given all these things going on in his market.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, on the other hand, I went to him and I said, Hey, what if you didn't lower your goal?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of answering the question, why you should lower your goal, what's going on in the marketplace for you to actually come up with that conclusion that you should do it, what if you thought about how could I reach that higher level?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: What are the things I could do?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of a why I can't, which you've got down, like really, really well, why I can't do it, how about a how can I?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: How do you respond to that?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, really well.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, really well.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know, our industry in general requires a level of positivity.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not a positive person, a wake up in the morning and go out there and get ready to kill it, this is not the right industry for you.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's too hard.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's way too hard.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're already talking yourself against things, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking yourself, you know, against being able to grow or against being able to do things.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And he asked me, okay, how would you answer how can I?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: I said, well, number one, what are your clients like?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's a complimentary type of client to your clientele?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you're forced to come up with two or three.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: They might not even that be that close, but they're close-ish, right?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Your skills are transferable.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: We don't just have to do what we do.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't born to do recruiting for life sciences companies.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: We just chose to go down that road.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: But what else is complimentary?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: What else can we do?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think this applies to job searchers too, because in my opinion, the job search is just like sales, except you're the product.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and there's a lot of people I see out there with the I can't attitude.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I've been unemployed for nine months, but it's the market.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're both in recruiting, we're both the busiest we've been in many years.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: People are hiring, and I think a lot of people have that attitude going into their job search, and they want to blame an outside source for why they're not getting a job.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: When, in my opinion, in reality, they're just taking the easy road.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Apply, apply, apply.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the amount of people I've coached, especially college grads who don't know how to find a job, and I've done it as favors for clients, kids, and things like that.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I've given them pointers on if you do this for two months straight, you will get a job.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: A year later, here they are, still not working.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: They're not doing the work.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't do the hard task.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: The bottom line is this there's never, I've been in search for 27 years.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: There is never a time where there's no search.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: The financial crisis was the worst I'd seen.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Q4 of 2008, we we had more searches cancel than we booked.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Never seen that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was a net negative new search number.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but moving into 2009, it was it was bad.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was really bad, but there was not zero.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: There were still searches going on.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: There were still industries that were hiring and companies that were hiring.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: You look at a company like Apple, they didn't have a financial crisis.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have a great recession.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Google didn't have a great recession.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these companies just power through it, they outwork it.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people need to do the same thing, right?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what's the what's the uh the old saying?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: But too many people aren't tough.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, things are too easy.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's too easy to apply to a job.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's too easy as a salesperson to send 5,000 emails in a day with AI.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't work.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why do people think that's the way to find a job?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Reagan, I have a question for you.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: How old are you again?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: 25.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you've been out of college three, four years?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Three years, yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Three years.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So people in your generation, when they talk to me, they say, I'm doing everything I can to find a job.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they say, I've applied to a whole bunch of jobs on LinkedIn or Indeed or some of these other postings, and they think they're doing everything they can.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it that people think that's the way to find a job?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Who told them that?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did you learn this in college?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's what else are we?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we were told in college.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: So who told you that?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Did you take a job, a class on job search?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I think to find a job in this day and age, like you're not gonna the easy route is to go on LinkedIn.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: But who tells people this?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, guys, this is this is this is the thing.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is a fool's errand.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: People think that that's the way to find jobs.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually the way to not find a job.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why it's fool's errand, it's a fool's errand is you know, if you go out and you pan for enough gold and you turn over enough stones, you're gonna find Some real gold, and every once in a while you walk up to one stone and you find gold, and you're like, Wow, this is easy.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is so easy.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I found gold my first stone.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, you got lucky.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens is people say, Oh, my friend found a job this way, so that's how job search is done.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's one out of 500 or one out of huge a huge number.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I want to know who in your college told you that this was the way to do it.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So no, you do you think nobody?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the easy place to look, right?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm graduating, I need a job.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let me go on indeed, Mosh or LinkedIn, these are where the jobs are.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think some of the companies, to be honest, LinkedIn makes money.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: You can pay for a premium uh license as a job seeker to promote yourself.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: So they're being marketed that this is the path forward.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't understand who.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I want to find out who.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Who is telling people to find jobs this way?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's a class at TCU.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really bummed if we paid that much money for you and Maddie to go to TCU and they're telling you this is how you find jobs.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I also see the same thing.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm on the board of UC Riverside Business School, the advisory board.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they've got a career group and they're focused on getting people jobs, which I love.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the number one thing, the number one priority for the dean of the business school is to get people jobs, right?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: But when I've been at the career center for the whole university, I'm so unimpressed.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So unimpressed.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: They have bad stuff, paperwork there that's that's you know, badly printed.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they don't give good advice.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so people are lost.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I really think so.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you are in college in Texas, like I was, you want a job back in California, where do you even look besides LinkedIn?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: You do everything that nobody else is doing.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: So give me an example.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: You want a job with what company?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just name name a company.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, say someone's in marketing and they're looking for a marketing job.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And what kind of company?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Clothing, fashion, yeah, consumer.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay with that.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: So so you identify the people that run marketing for those departments.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: You identify probably the CEOs if it's a smaller company, and you send them something and you call them.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: We have this thing in our company.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's call, email, call, call.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: We don't just email people.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I get I get hundreds of emails every day from people trying to sell me something.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know how many phone calls I get?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Almost none.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, not almost.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Literally none.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody is calling.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they say, well, nobody answers their phone anymore.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: How would you know?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're not even trying.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Our entire business is cold calling.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: You don't because recruiting is so email, in mail, LinkedIn.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: We don't even use that.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: We just call.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Reagan, am I getting a little fired up?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: You are.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, everybody, but I'm passionate about this because I really want people to find jobs.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: But this is the way you do it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: You identify the companies you want to work for.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy to do that research.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Say someone reaches out to you for a marketing role.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was just gonna say, I have a story in the field.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: A gal I interviewed on Friday reached out to me.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: I posted a role on LinkedIn to see what I what would come in.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Out of hundreds of applicants, I'm probably talking to five.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's the the quality and the relevancy.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: For your company?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: This gal messaged me on LinkedIn.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: I go in, she didn't even apply.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: But she messaged me and said, Hey, I I looked at the role.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: This is something, here's my background, this is something I'm really excited about.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Would love to learn more about what you're looking to build.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Within two days, we're on a call.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, did she call you?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, no.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: What if she had called you?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Both.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: What if she had messaged you on LinkedIn and called you and let you hear her voice and let you hear her say something smart on a voicemail?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it would have made it even easier for me to talk to her.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people do this.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let them hear your voice.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Leave a voicemail.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Reagan.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say that you're the VP of Mark, you're the chief marketing officer of a consumer brand that I want to go work for.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I pick up the phone and I say, Hi, this is Rod McDermott.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm graduating from TCU in May.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I saw your company.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really aligned with your brand and what you guys are doing.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a marketing major and I'm looking for companies in Southern California, which is where I'm from, where I might have a chance to do something for their marketing department.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to have a quick phone call with you, share with you a little bit about my background and some of the internships I've had and see if there's an opportunity for us to have a deeper conversation.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me what you would do because our marketing team is not hiring right now.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right now they're not hiring.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody reached out to me, I would definitely send it to our head of marketing and say, you've got to keep this person in mind.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to the voicemail they just sent me, right?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, she comes from marketing and other great companies like sketchers and guests.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: She might have friends at those other companies where she says, you know what, you're a star candidate.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Let me help you out.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Her husband runs a marketing agency.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking for a job, your number one thing to do is network.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody that you talk to, whether they have a job for you or not, is a contact.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if they reached out to me and I forwarded them to Kristen and Kristen's like, hey, our team's built out, but I really like your background and I like your style.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Let me see if I can help you.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: She's very connected.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: How does that hurt?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, it doesn't.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you do it.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Applying for jobs and being one of 500 or a thousand, it's blind.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've actually never had a job I applied for.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've never, in my entire career, have applied for a job.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Almost everything I've gotten was through networking or being bold, like walking into a Mercedes dealership at age 19 in a suit and talking to the owner and GM and selling him on why he should hire me.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely smart.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, in a job like sales, if you want to be in sales in certain areas, Mitch, how many companies aren't hiring good salespeople?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: A ton.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, aren't.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Aren't how many companies aren't?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Every company.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a lot of companies are always looking for good salespeople.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in sales, marketing's different, finance different, those are staff jobs.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're in sales, you want to be in sales and you're a hustler and you present yourself to a company, odds are they're going to try and figure out a way to bring you on.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Who doesn't want more sales?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: So when you do what you did at Mercedes, you're bringing yourself and presenting yourself as a potential solution to a challenge, which is growing the revenue, right?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I really think now I want to share this one other example.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: It dovetails Reagan, I think, with what we're talking with talking about for recent grads, uh, either either past recent grads or future grads that are going to be graduating in the next year.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And who knows what the job market's going to be.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing you can't control, you have no idea what market you're coming into.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: What you can control is your strategy.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that people need to position themselves not as a future employee, but as a solution to a problem.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to double down on the marketing thing.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: What can you do that's unique?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are your skills that you're need that are unique?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if somebody said, Hey, I've I've done, I my friend Tim, his son, reached out to me and he said, I want to get a job in marketing with a consumer brand, but I don't have any experience.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I said, dude, didn't you sell your TikTok?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: He sold his TikTok handle for a lot of money.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Remember how viral he went?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: He was huge.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: He was all over the place.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: He made a lot of money at age 22 selling his TikTok handle.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't have it anymore.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I said, if you're interviewing for consumer brand, you already showed how you can reach a whole crap load of people.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they want to do.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Don't position yourself as somebody with no experience.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Position yourself as somebody with a ton of experience.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: I actually, when I coached a cohort of mid-level leaders on how to find a job, I came up with an email template that I had them use where it's I help X Companies, Y.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a solution to a problem.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: See, this is what I tell people.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now I was going to share this too.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Senior executives, I've been counseling for the last 20 years, do not look for a job.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Look for a problem for which you can be the solution.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Companies don't want to hire just to fill another C-level role.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: They want to solve a problem.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we see too, even in our company, whenever somebody decides to move on and go somewhere else, usually my really good leaders in our company say, Hey, that's great, really excited for you.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they come to me and they say, I want to upgrade this role.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Here's why.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And here's what we can do.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: And every single time they've done it and we've upgraded the role, we've moved that department miles down the road.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we take advantage of that.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So do other companies.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because we get complacent sometimes.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: We like our people and they like us and we know what we get.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And but we never step back and say, Boy, if we had somebody who had X, Y, and Z above and beyond our person, what could we do?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when our person does us the favor sometimes of saying, hey, I'm going to take another opportunity, that is a favor if we look at it the right way and we have an opportunity to upgrade down.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Reagan?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is any of this pissing you off?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Pissing me off?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, I have a job.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I know you do.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, in terms of the idea of uh who's telling people how to look for jobs, are is there a gap there?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is hard for college students because a lot of people hire for experience.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you don't have experience, but how can we?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I want to reach out to these college students.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a real problem out there?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a huge problem.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So people aren't being told how to do job service.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's an entry-level position, but two years are required.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let me ask you a question.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're sir you're you're you're supporting me now, right?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say serving me, but you're not serving me.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Don't say that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds really bad.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're supporting me.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um how much experience did the person have before you?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh six years, maybe more.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think more.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Ten years?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think like a decade of supporting C level folks, right?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: How much did you have?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Zero years.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what is it about?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is it about the experience?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: But when here's my thing though.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: When I did the search for you, we were looking at people with three to five years.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: You weren't looking at people with zero years of experience.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I get it.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't know that I would have hired you without knowing you.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't you already worked for us for how many years?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: A year, two years?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: A year, yeah.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I so I already knew what I was getting.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a concept I'll share though.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: You put yourself in the right room to get a job that could be a career.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Most people are too picky.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: They don't look at my first job is just putting myself in the right room.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Get in with a company that fits your values that you know you can grow with, and take the job that you know you can get and put yourself in the environment to be promoted into what you want and make it clear.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I agree.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think getting into a company is the biggest thing.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're better off getting into a company and working than sitting on your mom's couch applying for a job every day.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Mitch, I I think that's that's great.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: How many people today are gonna end their career with the company they started with?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Almost none.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Almost none.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, well, one of my employees, hopefully.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe two.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe two.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm hopeful too.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hopeful it's you, and I'm hopeful Sammy.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: But no, very few do that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, given that, get the experience, build out your resume, get the talk track, get the stories.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: If it's at least aligned, the job is aligned with where you want to go, the industry's aligned.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: But that you, Mitch, you bring up a really good point because maybe it's not aligned.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Even like this person that you interviewed, right?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Their industry is not necessarily aligned with what they want to do, but they keep getting promoted.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: If nothing else, they're building out their resume.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so for the future, they're they're they're developing kind of a strong foundation.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hey, this uh this conversation went so many different directions.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: But Reagan, I really do want to help people with this.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: If there's some young folks out there that are struggling with job search and getting off a dime, I know that I kind of yell at people here because I want to shake them and I want them to do something different, but also we really want to help them.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we want to help.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think uh I bet you there's people listening who know they need help.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: So please reach out.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: We want to help you.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: We think we think we can take you through a job search and help you find your dream job.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Reagan, how can they reach out?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Tell them again.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: DM us on Instagram at two guys in ties or email us at twoguysintiespod at gmail.com.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think we'll be nicer?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, can't promise that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: I promise I'll be nicer.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one of the things I've been working on is empathy lately.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think it's going?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Clear is kind.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: All right, hey, this has been fun.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Mitch, glad to have you back.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Happy to be back.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: See you guys next week.