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Ju-on: The Grudge 2 · The Next Reel Film Podcast

• 0:05
  Pete Wright: I'm Pete Wright.
• 0:06
  Andy Nelson: And I'm Andy Nelson.
• 0:08
  Pete Wright: Welcome to the next reel. When the movie ends
• 0:10
  Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins.
• 0:13
  Pete Wright: Ju- On, The Grudge two is over.
• 0:17
  It will never stop. It will grow. It will hurt anyone it touches. Andy, I might surprise you to hear that after three previous Ju On movies, I come to this one telling you that as madcap campy as this one veers into, it actually has more going on than the first three combined. And I found myself the teeniest bit engaged in this movie.
• 0:54
  Andy Nelson: You make it sound like you've hated all the others when I really think it's just the third one. The the one that everyone else generally says is the best of the franchise that you say is actually the worst of the lot thus far.
• 1:06
  Pete Wright: That's true. But I'm leaning into the bit Yeah. For for entertainment purposes. But this one does something different.
• 1:12
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I I mean, I really enjoyed this one. I'm I'm curious because this one, you're like madcap, and I I like, the antics and everything. I'm curious where you're going with kind of your description here. Where where's the madcap?
• 1:27
  Is it comedy madcap? What what in it feels madcap?
• 1:32
  Pete Wright: Maybe, there is an image. There are a couple of images where oh, what's her name? Kayako ghost girl, where she shows up, and she, like, moves into frame, and it is a full on Zoinks Scoob reveal. Like, eyes are wide, hair is doing craziness, and it's not sinister. It's not it's just like it's boo.
• 1:55
  And I laugh out loud at those moments. I also laugh out loud at this is I I'm really torn with it. Okay. Let's get into it. There is a scene.
• 2:05
  There's a sequence. A set of sequences across this is where, again, we're doing the anthology bit where we get the coolest thing that has happened in this series of movies where the ghost interactions are happening across time. So she hears the thudding against the wall, right, and is scared about it and invites him over, and they're all boo. It's scary because there's thudding. We don't know what the thudding against the wall is.
• 2:34
  We only discover later when like, this is a real high and low moment because the concept is so cool, and the hair begins to grow and nooses these characters and is hanging them from the ceiling, and it's their own feet banging against the wall, which is so cool, but the hair is so stupid. I what thought the moving hair was so dumb. I was laughing out loud. I was like, I don't know how to rationalize this because I so love the idea that they're trying to sell, and I was laughing at it. I really was.
• 3:15
  It I mean, there is stuff in here that I think is genuinely awesome, and the execution is, for me, pretty laughable. That hair.
• 3:24
  Andy Nelson: Well, it's not the execution. It's it's the the actual concept that you don't like.
• 3:29
  Pete Wright: I don't think that's true.
• 3:31
  Andy Nelson: I mean, the execution, I I don't know. I would say that's how they did it. Yes. In, like, the process of how the filmmakers came to actually make it work in the relation of the film, whereas you what it sounds like is the concept? The concept that you don't like is the fact that in the story, Kayako's hair has become this its own living thing or whatever.
• 3:52
  It's kind of covered the hair of the girl's room, and it's now, like, stringing nooses together and hanging them from the ceiling. Okay. So, I mean, I just wanna I just wanna verify. It's not the actual the special effects and all that in the making of the film. Although it could be that.
• 4:10
  Pete Wright: I that's where
• 4:10
  Andy Nelson: I just wanna clarify.
• 4:11
  Pete Wright: Yeah. That's it. That's what I'm saying here. Like, you've said two things that are that are both true, that I think the hair has come off the rails in in this movie, the way the hair is is working. The effect doesn't work for me.
• 4:24
  Right? And in the room, the effect doesn't work for me with them noosed up. The the way the hair kind of crawls and moves, I think looks ridiculous. And I'm leaving the door open because I love the conceit so much. Like, I love the concept that there is a universe where crazy hair girl could actually noose people up with the hair in the in the ceiling.
• 4:50
  It just didn't work here for me. I found myself, like, just I I think that Toshio still works for me, haunted ghost boy. Kayako officially has lost all bits of of sinister haunting. I just laugh every time she was there. It is it's I'm done with officially.
• 5:10
  Andy Nelson: What about the end appearance of Kayako? Were you laughing at that one or did you like that? Give me give
• 5:18
  Pete Wright: me an example of of how the end worked for you. Well,
• 5:21
  Andy Nelson: I'm just saying, like I'm
• 5:23
  Pete Wright: gonna assume it did. Did it not?
• 5:25
  Andy Nelson: I you can safely assume everything in this film pretty much worked for me. I'm talking specifically about her being birthed. Yeah. And and just the entire process of that. And I'm trying to figure out my hunch is that you were laughing at that too, whereas I thought it was pretty, pretty clever and creepy way to kind of, like, have her in a way reborn, this evil entity getting reborn.
• 5:50
  Pete Wright: Right. Right. And this is the this is the the real curse of this movie for me is that I'm gonna be haunted by the what could have been in my head because I think leaning more into body horror and the pregnancy and the curse over time is really genuinely good. I just think I was so I'm so done with Kayako as an antagonist that I don't know what they could do to to bring back anything sort of sinister. I liked the idea of the end too.
• 6:25
  I I I think going in that direction, the little montagey bits at the end too. I mean, I think it's all it's all really good. And because it was Kayako maybe, I just am so I was so done with it. It was it was it became funny. The difference is there is room for it to be sinister and serious in my head.
• 6:48
  Like, the movie I was making in my head was scarier.
• 6:51
  Andy Nelson: I'm really curious now for you to look at some other prominent j horror films and see if there's something in the style that Japanese filmmakers are doing that kind of just rub you the wrong way, that it is it's a style that isn't clicking for you. Like, I'm curious. Are you going to say, yeah. No. I don't none of these none of these end up working for me, or are you going to find that it's largely just Takashi Shimizu in the way that he makes his films?
• 7:30
  You know? So I'm curious about that.
• 7:32
  Pete Wright: Well, look. I was complaining about this to, obviously, our friend of the show, Next Real True Story colleague, Tommy Metz, who is also horror aficionado. And his his comment was, look, you have to go watch Ringu because that's one of my favorite films. Like, just favorite it's it is absolutely nails everything it's trying to do, and that fits in this space. I really think if you don't like these movies, you prob you may like that movie.
• 8:01
  Was that part of your curriculum for CinemaScope?
• 8:04
  Andy Nelson: I I have a whole bunch of j horror movies that are gonna be over on my CinemaScope episode next month that you can certainly jump into. Ringu and Ju On the Grudge both were two of them that were discussed. Okay. And I also love Ringu. And I think Ringu is a fantastic film.
• 8:23
  Of the j horror remakes, Ringu's remake, The Ring, actually is probably the one that does the best. My memory was at the time that the grudge with sir Michelle Gellar was actually pretty good, but your recent review actually, I don't know if I really should take your review into heart because, again, it's Takashi Shimizu writing, directing. And I I just have a feeling this series is really not for you. So but I don't know. I I'd be curious.
• 8:54
  Like, if you looked at at Ringu, if you looked at Darkwater, if you looked at a number of these other stories, how would it play for you?
• 9:04
  Pete Wright: Okay. I mean, you know me, Andy. I watched Starship Troopers two because you told me to.
• 9:12
  Andy Nelson: I'm looking for Ringu right now. Told yourself that you You told me. Napped in your
• 9:17
  Pete Wright: life. You said, Pete, you have to go watch Starship Troopers two, and you have to watch it before you're allowed to watch anything else. And so forgetting,
• 9:27
  Andy Nelson: last week, I mentioned in the award session that you on the grudge won, or was nominated for best TV release at the Saturn awards, losing to Starship Troopers two. Mhmm. And so Pete said, I'm going to watch that, and he sure did.
• 9:43
  Pete Wright: He sure did.
• 9:44
  Pete Wright: There it is. I already subscribed to a service that has Ringu. I'm leaving this open. I'm going to watch it because because, like I said, like, there, I think it's Kaiko. I think it's these movies.
• 9:58
  Andy Nelson: Did you watch the ring remake? The English with Naomi Watts?
• 10:02
  Pete Wright: No. Okay. So I should do that too. Is that what you're saying?
• 10:06
  Andy Nelson: Well, just so you know, Ringu also has an antagonist who has long black hair and comes after people. So Okay. I'll be curious how how Sadako plays for you. Yeah. Kayako and Sadako are the two there there's a well, we'll talk about it because in the in this franchise, there is a crossover film just like Freddie versus Jason.
• 10:33
  Are you kidding me? There is a Sadako versus Kayako film. How could you tell them apart?
• 10:40
  Pete Wright: They both have long dark hair and, like, crawl around.
• 10:43
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:43
  Pete Wright: That's the image I have. Right? Because she crawled doesn't she crawl out of the TV in Ringo?
• 10:48
  Andy Nelson: She crawls out of the well. She crawls out of the TV.
• 10:50
  Pete Wright: She crawls out of a lot of stuff. Yeah. Oh, okay.
• 10:53
  Andy Nelson: But she doesn't crawl out of pregnant woman.
• 10:56
  Pete Wright: I mean,
• 10:58
  Andy Nelson: I haven't seen all the ring films. It's possible.
• 11:00
  Pete Wright: Maybe there's a pregnant woman in there.
• 11:03
  Andy Nelson: Oh, man.
• 11:04
  Pete Wright: Okay. Alright. So meanwhile, back to the grudge two. Here's some things that I really liked about it. Can I tell you?
• 11:11
  I like the opening. I think that in general, one of the things this movie does over the the the grudge is that I think it approaches horror a little bit more aggressively. Right? The the grudge is more about the slow build. You start with kind of the slow atmospheric silence, and then you get these sort of ten to fifteen minutes, you get the a sharp spike.
• 11:35
  Right? You get the closet croak or the figure in the bed or or, you know, something that's that's intended to build the dread that or or pay off the dread that the film is is holding back. Right? Super minimalist. I'd argue stingy in that restraint.
• 11:50
  And the grudge two, the intensity starts higher. I like that we start in the car. I like that there's kind of the hit and run vibe. That's, like, horrifying on its own human level, let alone what it actually represents. And I think that the the intention behind the scares stays higher and a little bit more sort of jagged.
• 12:12
  Like, I'm imagining a graph of scares over time, and I think the grudge two intends to stay higher leading leaning into the body horror, leaning into the hair effects and the the labor scene. And I think it's it's it's much more spectacle than subtlety in the grudge two. It it's certainly more surreal than, I guess, suburban. And I think part of that is the move, the change in setting, like moving to this film conceit, you know, making this TV show, I think works well for me, particularly over the first one.
• 12:50
  Andy Nelson: Well, that's and I I figured after I watched this one that you were gonna like this one. This has an a different vibe. Instead of, like, following a variety of people over a period of time where it's like one person who goes to the, Seiki house who ends up getting cursed, but not until they've already crossed paths with somebody else. And and it's kind of like a number of different people over a long period of time. Now granted this does take place over several months, but still, we're following one group of people that were part of this crew that you said, this film crew that came to film part of this haunted house TV show.
• 13:30
  And what we're seeing is the various people who were involved in that production, whether it's the guest kind of cameo horror queen actress that they have who is brought in to kind of just, like, be part of it, whether it's the one of the extras that's brought in, whether it's the director or the hair, makeup, wardrobe lady, like, a number of these different people are kind of involved in this curse. And I thought that was actually pretty interesting. And now that I say that the extras, it was actually one of the extras who was involved was actually following the horror queen later who ends up kind of seeing Toshio. So that's the one story that kind of shifts. But, otherwise, it's largely that group of people that we're seeing run into the ghostly versions of Kayako and Toshio because they decided to go into that house and film in there.
• 14:31
  And and and so we're centering more with a group of people, which is which we really haven't had on any of the previous stories because, like, the it's like somebody is cursed. They cross paths with somebody else. That first person dies. Now the second person. And it just kind of like it's this chain, and here, it's like a group.
• 14:52
  And so I think that it probably was just, there's a sense of you know? I mean, you've said it before where there's you're it's difficult to connect with anybody because you're not following anybody for a longer period of time. And here, you actually have a core group that you kind of are following through the film. Yeah.
• 15:12
  Pete Wright: It's I it's it's more cohesive. I I think having the seeing how the characters connect with each other matters to me. Right? And and I think it it increases for me the emotional connection I have with these characters. Like, I'm more I'm more interested as as silly as as it as it gets.
• 15:30
  It's it's it's loud and messy and silly. And I think changing up the the context, the pregnancy works really well. The the film crew works really well, and also giving me a group of people that I feel like are connecting with each other in a way that I can connect with them, I think changes the changes the game for this movie. And I guess I I guess I turn it back to you because I know that just saying all of those things makes it feel maybe more western of of a film than than what the first three movies get. Is that a fair assessment?
• 16:09
  Is this, like, culturally adapting to more western y tropes or where the surreal cerebral original curse movies are are much more sort of Japanese?
• 16:22
  Andy Nelson: I don't think it has anything to do with being more Japanese. I mean, it's not really a trend that you see in many of the j horror films, but I do think that it's I think your issue really is the fact that you don't like how, Shimizu structured the films where we're getting vignettes of stories, and each story is largely its own little thing. And so you only really have that amount of time to follow the characters. And I think your preference is probably to have characters who you can follow through the course of an entire film and feel more connected to.
• 16:57
  Pete Wright: Yeah. No. I think that's fair. I think it's a fair observation.
• 17:00
  Andy Nelson: And and that's not what Shimizu set out to do. Like, he set out to tell it's really just the story of this curse, and we're following it back and forth in time, seeing how it affects all these different groups of people. And that's really what we've seen over the course of all four of the films. It's just here because it's this one group. That's really this kind of just changed the structure a little bit for you.
• 17:23
  Even though we are still jumping around back and forth in time, there are stories that seem to not necessarily connect immediately, and so there are still those elements.
• 17:31
  Pete Wright: Yeah. But, you know, you make an you make a good point, which is that, like, if there's a character to follow in the first movies, it's it's not the characters who are being subjected to the curse. It's Kayako. Right? Like, that's the character to follow, but that is a nontraditional character to follow, and we're not used to that.
• 17:52
  I'm not used to that saying, okay. You're gonna follow the murderous ghost, and that's the character you need to care the most about because I don't think it's a it's a multidimensional character. I'm not interested. But he's not
• 18:03
  Andy Nelson: saying that's the one you need to care the most about. I I don't think that was the intention in in designing it that way. Well, I I just think we're following the curse, and I I don't think it means that Kayako now has to be a fully developed rounded character. Like, that's not what I was saying.
• 18:20
  Pete Wright: Okay. But the curse itself is not a fully developed and interesting thing to follow, and I think that's the that's the struggle. I don't I don't feel like in those first movies, there's so little variety in what Kayako does that keeping an eye on Kayako's in interpretation across time is not a compelling watch. In this movie, I think because we have a little bit more to care about in terms of our our character economy, I think Kayako's sort of thrust into their lives gives me an anchor. It gives me something to to think about, to watch over the course.
• 19:01
  The the pregnancy is the ticking clock. Right? Like, I she's there's an inevitability to what's going to happen to her life, to her career, and to her relationships, and I think that's that's something we can hold on to. And so, you know, I mean, I you know, we could relitigate the first three movies for the rest of our time together. But I I do wanna celebrate the things that I think work really well in in this movie because it was refreshing.
• 19:29
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. So walking through some of the stories, I'm just kind of curious. Like, I wanna just kind of touch on each of the stories because I think there are interesting elements in each of them. We start the film following Kyoko and her husband, Masashi, as their dry as he's picked her up from that shoot. We don't know which made the opening act really interesting because we have husband and wife in a car driving, talking about, like, their the fact that she's pregnant and she's an actress, and what are you gonna do?
• 20:00
  How are you gonna she hasn't told anybody yet, so she's, you know, biding her time as an actress. And then they hit something, stop the car, and it's a cat that they had hit. It's it's Toshio's cat. Toshio's there. Toshio ends up in the car once they get back in and are driving.
• 20:19
  And it's a great creepy shot as she looks down, on the floor between her husband's legs, and Toshio's down there, and he's holding the steering wheel. So her husband's having a hard time steering, and they crash the car and end up in the hospital. She loses the baby. Her husband ends up in a coma. That's kind of kicking things off.
• 20:37
  And I was just like, this is fascinating because I have no idea why these two people are being attacked. Like, there's it just was like it's felt completely random. Is it like they hit the ghost cat in the street, and so now Toshio is coming after them?
• 20:52
  Pete Wright: And I love ghost cat doing in the street?
• 20:55
  Andy Nelson: Right. And so I loved the setup for this. I mean, how did how did the film how did did this do you like the start of it?
• 21:01
  Pete Wright: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I thought that was that that's a huge win. I think that's a really intense bit of action and uncertainty. And the fact that I mean, I loved it when he gets out to check the cat, and she's kind of crawls across and is looking down under the car and keeps seeing the feet walk by, like, Toshio's feet.
• 21:22
  I think that's I think that's really intense. That's a great way to kick us off. And I think you're right. Like, we don't know where in time this is going to fit invariably because we know what Shimizu does, but that works for me here. Right?
• 21:36
  That uncertainty works for me in hindsight because we're grounded in following their experience, their sort of human experience with the curse over time.
• 21:48
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. And I I I think that's what's interesting. And we have this relationship that's built. We understand that it's tragic now that they've been in this accident. They've lost the baby, and we kind of then follow her.
• 22:00
  And that and this is another thing that I think we see happen a few times in this film where Shimizu is really kind of playing with where we are and how things are going. Because we see her in the hospital. She goes and tries to check on her husband who's in a coma in the next room. And because but through the glass, you get this really blurry version where you just see Toshio's head pop up. And so she tries to go in the room, and Toshio comes up and, like, puts his hand on her belly.
• 22:28
  Like, no. It's like, no. You can't come in here, but it's also I don't know. It was like, is that the moment that Kaeko kind of gets implanted in her sort of thing? You know?
• 22:38
  So it was it was an interesting moment. And then she, like, goes in an elevator to leave, and she ends up, like, on the wrong floor in the basement, and it's all messed up, and it's super creepy. She walks into another room, and she sees something. And these three school girls run-in, and one of them screams, and you hear cut. And you realize, oh, somewhere in there, we jumped time periods.
• 23:01
  And, again, that's something we haven't really seen Shimizu playing around with other than the title cards taking us to different places in the story. Here, we get just suddenly three and a half month jump into the future as she's back at work. And here she is in the middle of this movie with these schoolgirls, and we find we end up following Chiharo later as she's the schoolgirl who screamed, and we find out why and what happens to her. So that's another thing that I think, okay. He's really playing around with stuff here.
• 23:32
  Pete Wright: Well, and that's that's my question for you. What did you think of that? Like, it it it's sort of, you know, I'll say this tongue in cheek a little bit. It's ambiguity overload. Right?
• 23:39
  Like, what what did you think of not having the the explicit breaks?
• 23:45
  Andy Nelson: You well, I mean, we do have the explicit breaks, but that was one a place where we just didn't get one. Yeah. But I don't think we needed it because we're following the same character, and it just it made for just a fun way to kind of shift the story to a different time and place.
• 24:01
  Pete Wright: I think so too. I think it works really, really well. I think I it it is the example that I think proves the rule that I think the ambiguity works really well, and I kinda wanted more of it. Like, I want fewer explicit breaks, more let me, you know, let me be a part of the mystery. I think that that makes me work harder and keeps me engaged.
• 24:24
  I liked it. I think it was I think it was great.
• 24:27
  Andy Nelson: And then the next story is one you don't like. That's Tomoka, and she's the one who's at her home doing homework, and she starts hearing this thumping. And she recognizes that it's as as we find out later, she's hearing at the same time every night, like 12:17 or something. Yep. Every night, she's hearing these thumps on the on the wall and can't figure out what's going on, kind of frees out.
• 24:50
  She has this vision when she comes in once. She thinks her boyfriend's there, or she sees him in the other room. She sees his shape in the darkness. But from our perspective, it's like, it kinda looks like he's standing on a table. Like, he looks higher than he should.
• 25:07
  And then she looks down and realizes his shoes aren't there. And she's like, what's going on? And she goes in there, and then there's nothing there.
• 25:12
  Pete Wright: So we're getting kind of that Peaking peaking across time.
• 25:15
  Andy Nelson: Well, just which which we've seen over the course of this franchise with more of these different sorts of things where these ghostly shadows are are appearing and everything. Lights are on. Lights are off. Somebody's there. Somebody's not.
• 25:29
  Like, we're seeing that sort of stuff quite a bit. But, yeah, that's this is the story that you don't like the hair nooses. I like everything else. Everything else. Yeah.
• 25:40
  Because it's it's it's interesting the way that it plays. Like, her and her boyfriend, all of that when we see Toshio is the one, like, swinging
• 25:47
  Pete Wright: the body into the wall. Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. It's really great.
• 25:50
  I really like this. I like the idea of peeking. Like, when he when she invites him over to listen to the mysterious thumping at 12:17 or whatever, like, Like, that, I think, is is the kind of notch in the story that builds toward the later intensity. Like, I'm thinking about what could it be? What's in the wall?
• 26:10
  And that's what was so great about this reveal is that there's nothing in the wall. It's actually you're hearing your own death. Right? That is legitimately a freaky reveal. Legitimately freaky reveal.
• 26:23
  And the fact that I didn't like the creeping hair as a way to get them there is separate from the issue of the the conceit itself, which is pitch perfect.
• 26:35
  Andy Nelson: I I really do like the moment where her boyfriend comes in thinking that she's home because he's seen the lights on, and then he goes through the door and it's off, and then suddenly things are on. Like, he's kind of getting that those mind games. And there's a point when he's in the other room and it's dark, and you can just see, out of the top of the frame, dark like, Kayako's dark hair just, like, coming down toward him. You know? We kind of had something similar in the last movie when she's in bed, and Kayako is standing behind her and over and bends over her, and her hair comes down in front of her face.
• 27:09
  So those sorts of moments, I like the way that he's playing with how she's not always appearing in places that you would normally expect somebody to appear.
• 27:19
  Pete Wright: You know? Right. Right. Like, you know, a womb.
• 27:26
  Andy Nelson: And then we follow Megumi, who is the hair makeup wardrobe lady, and we see that she's set up in the murder room in the house, which is like, you're watching this. You're like, god. This is dark. There's this stain on the floor that she can't get past.
• 27:44
  Pete Wright: The butt stain. It's such a butt shaped stain. Really captured the butt shape.
• 27:49
  Andy Nelson: It's where Kayako's body wrapped in the bag had been left by her husband after he'd killed her before he took her up into the attic. And so it's just kind of a blood stain in kind of a butt shape that we have on the floor there. And she's freaked out because of all of this going on, and and nobody really likes being in this house. She forgets something, has to go back up. She hates it.
• 28:15
  And when she goes back to the studio, ends up in a situation where, again, we have Kayako appearing. The stain is now following her. You know, we actually see the stain appear there. And I think this is is this where she crawls out of the stain? Where Kayako crawls out of the stain?
• 28:33
  Pete Wright: I thought that was in the changing room.
• 28:35
  Andy Nelson: Oh, this is I loved the setup of this that she's she has all of the wigs on her Yeah. And and it's the wig that actually kind of suddenly, like, falls off and then is moving around the floor, and and Kayako's head kind of comes up out of the floor. It's like, they they played with that well. I thought that was I once I saw those wigs, I'm like, there's something with the wig.
• 29:01
  Pete Wright: There's gonna
• 29:02
  Pete Wright: be some hair stuff. I I wish I liked the hair stuff more.
• 29:05
  Pete Wright: It felt like this when the wig is crawling around, I thought, okay. We're in a Star Trek episode. This is like, we might as well be a tribble. So I I definitely get the intention. And Yeah.
• 29:19
  Boy, it made me laugh.
• 29:21
  Andy Nelson: Oh, we've switched to the director, Case K. Oh, and one thing we didn't mention that I think is interesting is that when Kayako like, she's still living with her mom, and her mom dies in her story. Yes. Like, she comes home and finds her mom dead.
• 29:38
  Pete Wright: Under a table.
• 29:39
  Andy Nelson: Well, I think that's just a Japanese thing where they kind of the way that they're setting themselves, they sit their selves up at their tables and stuff.
• 29:47
  Pete Wright: I know. And but with the blanket too, that's the thing I hadn't seen. Right? There there's a blanket. The table was on top of the blanket.
• 29:53
  Andy Nelson: Well, yeah, it's like I think that's her bed.
• 29:56
  Pete Wright: It's like the leading table.
• 29:57
  Andy Nelson: It's it's like, you know, a little table you have
• 29:59
  Pete Wright: in
• 29:59
  Andy Nelson: your in your bed, like the little, breakfast that, you know, breakfast in bed sort of table that you prop up on yourself. But I think, you know, maybe I don't know. I don't know this the Japanese culture, but I was just like, okay. So she's older. This is just where she can she sleeps, but then it also is a place where she can conveniently just eat when she wants to.
• 30:21
  So that's how I saw it. I was, like, curious about the the way that mom dies, especially knowing what happens later with mom. Do you think mom died of natural causes? Because I lean toward that because of the way things play later.
• 30:44
  Pete Wright: Well, and also because it just it doesn't I'm trying to kind of chart past old people deaths. Like, they're because we have enough evidence from past movies, the old man playing peekaboo with Toshio, like, the the the deaths for the older people are tend to be less gruesome. So even if she died of natural causes, it it could be grudge adjacent.
• 31:13
  Andy Nelson: Well, but the reason that I wonder is because in the case to case story, this is the director. Mhmm. He he comes to Kyoko, the actress, because he's freaked out because so many people that have been involved in that production have died. Right? He finds out that Megumi is dead.
• 31:34
  Like, he had been he heard her screaming, he said. And he went in there, and she was dead. He also says the cameraman and the sound guy are both dead. So he is recognizing that because of the fact that they went and filmed in that house, now people are dying. Kiyoko, he he thinks she got she kind of skirted it because they got into a car accident and and kind of thinks that, oh, you must be okay, but, like, what's going on?
• 32:03
  And he's kind of freaking out, and he's the one who's, like, sleeping at his computer. And you see like, he sees the, like, the footage that where the sound guy had heard something. And when they were filming, we we don't hear nobody hears anything. But as it turns out, it was Kayako. And now that that actually plays on the tape, and Toshio appears, and he comes to the camera and all this sort of stuff.
• 32:30
  He sees the photocopy machine where Kayako's coming to him in the in the copy machine. So he's, like, totally freaking out. He goes to see Kyoko, and at her house, this is where Kyoko has that moment where Tomaka comes out of the hole. Right? She she's the one who rises up out of the stain to come at her, but it's her mom.
• 32:58
  It's the ghost of her mom who grabs her and saves her, like, pulls her out of that moment. And then and and the ghost is gone. Interesting. And when she kind of looks around and all the ghosts are gone, the candles on her mom's altar have been blown out. Yeah.
• 33:17
  And so because of that moment, that's what makes me think maybe it was natural because no one else has come to, like, stop a ghost from attacking.
• 33:27
  Pete Wright: Yeah. So mom dies and becomes an agent of good in the afterlife.
• 33:34
  Andy Nelson: Something. Right. Like, she's trying to protect her daughter.
• 33:37
  Pete Wright: Yeah. That's interesting. I can see it. I can see it. I I kind of like the idea that people are are in the cons in the universe of this movie are still allowed to die normally.
• 33:49
  Andy Nelson: It's very rare.
• 33:50
  Pete Wright: It's very, very rare.
• 33:52
  Andy Nelson: This is at their house or at at her house because they arrive at her house, and Megumi is on the porch and goes in. And they go into the house looking for Megumi because they're like, she's dead. What the heck is going on? They separated her, look around the house. Megumi comes to him to give him the journal, and then and he freaks out and then recognize the recognize the journal for what it is, Kiyoko goes back to the house to figure out to try to solve this or something, like, with the journal and everything else.
• 34:28
  And that's where she starts having these like, she's downstairs, and she sees Chiharu, who at this time she has not worked with before. So she this we're getting these time jumps, which we did get in the last film, actually. We did get that the the cop, the detective seeing his daughter, like, ten years later Yes. Across time. So we're getting that again here where she's now seeing Chiharu at the house months later, And Chiharu is freaking out because Kayako's crawling down the stairs toward her, and Kyoko passes out.
• 35:04
  And then and that's when I I don't think we get Kisuke, Kisuke coming into the house yet. I think now we cut to Chiharu's story, which for me, I think was the most interesting of the stories because we are seeing her story. This is the act the the extra who was in the film months later with, with Kyoko and who sees Toshio holding his hand up to Kiyoko's belly. Right? So and she screams because she sees the ghost.
• 35:37
  Totally freaking out. So some she's drawn to the house, and Kayako's there and comes at her. But then we start getting this jump, like, her like, we're following her brain as she's jumping back and forth in time. Right? We're seeing, like, this this crazy, like, video footage, like her POV.
• 35:57
  We're seeing this it starts at the start black and white kind of, like, artsy footage of, like, floating over the city. And I was like, are we in a dream? Like, what's going on here? But we're seeing, like, almost, like, the moment she's taken, and she's, like, jumping around in time. Like, I I couldn't figure out what's going on, but the way that he crafted that, I thought was really fascinating.
• 36:20
  And, like, we hadn't seen a story told quite that way before.
• 36:24
  Pete Wright: No. And I I agree with you, especially because, like, it's it's Chiaru in the stairwell, right, when the endless stairwell loop, and she keeps running and running and never escapes. And, we have the echo of Kayako's croaking, and she is representative of kind of the structural unraveling that comes at the end of this movie. Right? The spatial distortion, but leads into ultimately the collapse of everybody's sort of identity into the the curse as as we realize that the curse is cursed sort of time itself for all of these people.
• 37:03
  It's really Chiaru who we saw early in the movie being introduced to this even though we didn't see what she was seeing at the time. We got to see her being introduced to this, the unraveling as it began for her way back when, which I think is it it's an interesting sort of structural kind of crescendo to the end of the movie, and it's all sort of rooted in her transformation.
• 37:28
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I I thought it was really fascinating the way that that unfolded and led to her getting taken by Kayako as we so often have, and which is what throws Kyoko, like, into that kind of, like, co not coma, but she's unconscious. And that's when we get to our last story, which is again Kayako, which is generally what happens. This is when Keisuke finds her and takes her to the hospital and is afraid for the baby. He sees that little that little charm that she had been given, like, for easy childbirth, and so he knows she's pregnant and rushes her to the hospital and is waiting.
• 38:07
  And this we also see her her husband who's come out of his coma, and they kind of set him on the roof in the wheelchair, but we know that he's been seeing the ghost too. And and he starts a seizure. She starts going into birth. He's waiting, trying to figure out what's going on. We cut back to the roof.
• 38:25
  The wheelchair is topped over toppled over. No sign of her husband. And that's when the doctors are like, what's going on? The the womb is shrinking. Like, they can't figure what's going on.
• 38:35
  And then, of course, we have Toshio's in there. Case K comes back in. All the doctors are dead on the floor, and then we have the birth of of Kayako. And he gets Kisuke gets killed. And then finally, Kiyoko wakes up, and there's a baby wrapped in plastic or something on the ground, and it's her baby, and it's a baby, which flashed back to when like, was like, or is this something tying to when Kayako's husband went and killed the baby of the guy that, you know, she
• 39:12
  Pete Wright: Oh, sure. Baby. You know? The first one.
• 39:14
  Andy Nelson: Wrapped in the bundle that he was beating. It looked a little bit like that. It was reminiscent. But that leads us to that final moment where this is again years later where we have a little girl walking with her mom, which is Kayako. No.
• 39:27
  Which is Kyoko. And her the daughter's little devil. And I was like, this is a really interesting shift. And I can see why Yeah. When when Shimizu describes this, he kind of says, this is, like, the first complete like, these first four films are kind of a complete little story of Ju On.
• 39:50
  The later films are different reinterpretations, their own stories, whatever. But he the way that it's he described it is he viewed this as, like, the end of the first story. And I thought that was a fascinating way to end it with a rebirth of Kayako.
• 40:08
  Pete Wright: Yeah. It's like a hand it's a handoff to the bad seed.
• 40:12
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Or Damien or something.
• 40:15
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. So this one, I I think in that regard, and maybe that's what you're describing is why it feels like one of the more rewarding watches for me because it feels like it sort of completes so many things for me, And there is so there's so much rot between the first two movies overlapping as they do, the so much of the sort of reinterpretation for the first cinematic version in the grudge.
• 40:43
  Like, there's there's a lot of there's a lot of craft in there, and this one feels like it's taking in everything that we know, giving us just enough new and resolving an arc that maybe I didn't even see was on the horizon of being resolved. All of that is satisfying. I love hair coming out of the drain. That's one that worked. Right?
• 41:08
  I think that was Megumi's bathroom hair attack, where the hair pours out of the drain and pulls her under suffocation via hair. It's kind of unintentionally funny, and but I I like it. Like, it breaks it breaks subtlety. Right? And and anytime the movie does that, I was I was in.
• 41:31
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. It's interesting. I like, I'd be curious. I mean, you were talking about Ringu. I'm curious how that franchise continues because this franchise, like, there's a difference between watching a film from it and feeling like you have an understanding as what the franchise is doing or what what the filmmaker is trying to do.
• 41:50
  And, again, going back to our conversation last week, like, I think you would probably have a different feel for Jew on the grudge had it been the first one and for a long time, the only one of the franchise you had seen. Like, that was your representation of what it was. Totally agree. Same thing with Ringu. Like, I'd be curious.
• 42:09
  Like, you'll probably enjoy Ringu, I would think. But I'm curious, like, if you continue watching those films, are you going to find them also as equally trying and frustrating? Because you're gonna feel like they're just it's the same thing. She keeps crawling out of wells. She keeps crawling out of TVs.
• 42:26
  Like, give me something new.
• 42:28
  Pete Wright: You know? Yeah. You you know what? Scary guys in hockey masks also do a lot of stabbing.
• 42:33
  Andy Nelson: Yeah.
• 42:34
  Pete Wright: Right? Like, I I get the the sort of talking out of both sides of my face regarding repetitive scares.
• 42:41
  Andy Nelson: Right. Because you enjoy the final destination films, we talked about
• 42:45
  Pete Wright: Yeah.
• 42:45
  Andy Nelson: Even though they are very much following the same formula. And it's just like, okay. Well, how is somebody gonna get killed this time?
• 42:52
  Pete Wright: Well, exactly. And that's the that's the game of the final destination films. And I feel like the puzzle of those films being able to try to put together how somebody's gonna get killed is the where I get enjoyment. This movie, if there's a croak, I know she's coming. I know already how she's gonna get and I think this movie, as silly and campy as some of the hair effects are, they're different.
• 43:19
  There are things that are new here, and we get to actually see some of the the horror that is hidden in the first three movies behind, you know, dread, dread, dread, dread, dread, splashy face of scary boo monster hard cut to something else. Right? Like, here, we actually get to see some of what Keiko is capable of, and I find that satisfying. Right? That's what I've needed all along.
• 43:48
  Andy Nelson: Well, that's why last week, I also compared it to the Halloween franchise because, again, it's not like the final destination films because you're just watching Michael Meyer go around killing people. And sure, he might kill people in different ways. Like, you know Now he's hanging him on a hook. Right. Right.
• 44:05
  It's like, you know, it's it's like it's a killer killing people. It's like, is it what weapon is he wielding? And and and so I think that there's inevitably, I think in any franchise, you're going to get some of that repetitiveness that I think sometimes can work. Sometimes it'll feel repetitive. Sometimes you don't mind the repetitive nature of it.
• 44:28
  It's just it really depends. And I think that's the I think that's something that, for me, I find in this franchise, I really enjoy. Like, I see the differences, the different ways that people are getting killed, way that the curse is shifting and moving, and I'm enjoying it. And I think for you, it just it was a harder buy in from the jump to really get on board with the way that this curse was playing out, and it just it just wasn't something that you immediately connected to or found as scary.
• 45:00
  Pete Wright: Well, found as scary. I think that's the the trick that the fact that that I found myself laughing at Kayako more than jumping at her appearance. I think it's pretty telling. Like, that that makes the movie almost a lampoon of itself, and that's a hard way to watch a horror movie. Right?
• 45:19
  Whatever the intention was. And and so that's I mean, I recognize that's a me problem. That's absolutely a me problem. I don't find this antagonist threatening. Even like, the hair adds something to it in some of these sequences, but in that's why in the first three movies, I it just I became exhausted.
• 45:40
  And I think it's because I just couldn't take the scares seriously or, know, I get what they were trying to do. It not it it just didn't it didn't play. And that's that's fine because this movie itself was rewarding, on many of the fronts that I found exhausting in the first three. This one, I think, helped me a lot.
• 46:00
  Andy Nelson: And I I mean, I can I can see that? I again, I didn't have the problems you did, but I can obviously, the hair itself became or not the hair, but, like, that look became such a such something that was easy to parody. Like, you would end up seeing it in the scary movie movies or in Sure. I think that I'm sure in one of the boxes at the end of Cabin in the Woods, I'm sure there's kayako There's had to be hair. Right?
• 46:27
  There's hair, galore in one of those boxes. So I'm sure that it's just something that you are able to easily end up making fun of. And so yeah. And and I'm curious. Like, I haven't watched much more of this franchise, but I'm curious, like, where it goes, especially, like well, we'll talk about it in a minute.
• 46:46
  So let's actually save that. We'll talk about where it goes from here.
• 46:49
  Pete Wright: So You got it.
• 46:50
  Andy Nelson: I don't know. Any other points?
• 46:51
  Pete Wright: No. That's good.
• 46:52
  Andy Nelson: Alright. Then we'll be right back. But first, our credits.
• 47:06
  Pete Wright: The next reel is a production of True Story FM, engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Sky Gaze, iColix, Or Chausa, Oriel Novella, and Eli Catlin. Andy usually finds all the stats for the awards and numbers at the -numbers.com, boxofficemojo.com, indb.com, and wikipedia.org. Find the show at truestory.fm. And if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show.
• 47:44
  Pete Wright: Does your hair wander? Does it slip across the floorboards when you're not looking? Does it slide up the wall when you're trying to relax or mysteriously wrap around your friends at the worst possible time. Don't worry. That's just natural.
• 48:02
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• 48:27
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• 49:02
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• 49:27
  Pete Wright: Sequels and remakes, Andy. Sequels and remakes.
• 49:30
  Andy Nelson: Goodness gracious. Didn't you
• 49:32
  Pete Wright: tell me there were 14 total films? We have 10 more to go. 15. Total films. Goodness.
• 49:40
  Andy Nelson: Now that's counting short films. So that is also so technically, by watching Kadasumi and four four four four four four four Mhmm. We've seen six of them so far. And you've eight of them. Right.
• 49:55
  Because you went and watched the 2,004 grudge, and you watched the
• 49:59
  Pete Wright: 2,019? Twenty twenty ish. The John I call it the John Cho grudge.
• 50:03
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. The 2021. Right. Yes. And and I have seen the American the grudge.
• 50:08
  So okay. So starting with the short films, we had 15 films. So after these four, then you get the three American remakes, the grudge, the grudge two, the grudge three. Then for its tenth anniversary, you get Jew on black ghost and Jew on white ghost, which are each one hour films that are totally not related. So I'm really curious about those because they aren't following Kayako at all.
• 50:34
  You're just following different, I don't if it's a different ghost. I'm not exactly sure who it is. Like, the the black ghost revolves around a hospitalized young girl who discovers that a cyst is found in her body, which is actually the physical remnant of her unborn twin sounds totally different. But again, it's Wow. It's jumping around in time through chronology and same thing with White Ghost.
• 50:58
  I think White Ghost features the husband. I think he has a cameo in that. But, again, they're largely totally separate. So you got those two. Then you have kind of the the reboots starting with Juwan, the beginning of the end, which is a reboot and then Juwan, the final curse.
• 51:20
  Then you have the crossover, which is Sadiko versus Kayako, leading to the most recent remake, the 2020 grudge that you watched. You also have another short film in 2006 called tales from the grudge. Then you have the TV series in 2020 due on origins, which goes back in time and sets it all up. And, actually, from my understanding, talking on the, the my Cinemascope podcast about j horror, it does, Kayako a disservice, and it makes her relationship it makes her seem, like, more complicit in what ends up happening with her with her husband, which doesn't sound great. Oh.
• 52:00
  So that's film TV. Then you have a video game, Jew on the grudge from 02/2009. You've got all these novels and novelizations that started in 2003 and go to 2015. You've got comics. You've got a graphic novel.
• 52:13
  And as I mentioned before, you actually have a Pachinko machine. So, I mean, it's a very popular franchise. And horror doesn't always find the popularity in Japan, but this is one of the franchises that has been fairly successful. So, and you can tell, like, just because there's so much stuff. Even if So many.
• 52:34
  A lot of it. Like, I I hear after black ghost, white ghost, I hear all the rest of them are a real drop in quality. So if you were already struggling with some of these ones, you may not wanna continue after black ghost, white ghost.
• 52:49
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I mean, I I'm actually you know, as much of a buzzkill as I've been about these movies so far, I'm actually really curious to kind of exercise that completionist vibe. But, man, one, they're you know, finding them all and watching them right is challenging. And two, yeah, you're you're not sweetening the deal after those two.
• 53:12
  Andy Nelson: I'm curious if, Ju On Black Ghost and White Ghost are available. It looks like, Ju On Black Ghost, you can watch on Crunchyroll if you are subscribed to that. And white and each of these is only an hour. Yeah. They're both on Crunchyroll.
• 53:30
  So if you have a Crunchyroll.
• 53:32
  Pete Wright: Well, that would be, that would be good. I need to watch the grudge two and three. The American ones?
• 53:38
  Andy Nelson: Are you sure
• 53:38
  Pete Wright: you Do need we need to do any of this?
• 53:45
  Andy Nelson: I just wanna say, I wasn't the one who pushed you to watch Star Ship Troopers two. That was all I knew. And now
• 53:51
  Pete Wright: you're You told me week,
• 53:52
  Andy Nelson: you have to watch Eddie made me watch The Grudge two and three.
• 53:55
  Pete Wright: Yeah. In order you put the gate up. You said in order to watch RRR. No. In order to what you I don't know.
• 54:02
  You did it. I just said that you did it.
• 54:04
  Andy Nelson: The very least, you need to watch RRR because that's a good movie, and you keep putting it off. And so I'm like, if you're gonna stoop to the level to watch Starship Troopers poo, at least do me the the favor of Yeah. Of finally watching RRR.
• 54:16
  Pete Wright: Yeah. So you put that gate up. So I had to watch Starship Troopers. That's what I'm hearing. Anyway, it's gonna be fine.
• 54:24
  I got you. I will report back. I can't wait. It's gonna be great.
• 54:27
  Andy Nelson: Yes. I'm gonna
• 54:27
  Pete Wright: watch them all this week.
• 54:29
  Andy Nelson: I can't wait to see the full report all the way up through the TV series. So Yeah. Do it all.
• 54:35
  Pete Wright: Oh my god. The TV series.
• 54:37
  Pete Wright: Alright. How how to do an award season?
• 54:41
  Andy Nelson: Didn't have a good run at awards. One nomination at the Citges Catalonian International Film Festival, where it was nominated for best film, but lost to the blind swordsman, Zatoichi.
• 54:51
  Pete Wright: Oh, I haven't seen that either. Have you seen it?
• 54:54
  Andy Nelson: I have seen I've seen a like, one of the Zatoichi films, but I don't know if that's the one that I've seen.
• 55:02
  Pete Wright: Yeah. No. This one is well regarded. Yeah. Interesting.
• 55:07
  Okay. Might have to put this on the list. Oh, we can we can do a follow-up on the Catalonian International Film Festival. Okay. How did you at the box office?
• 55:19
  Did get us any, any traction? Do you have any numbers?
• 55:29
  Andy Nelson: Well, Pete, like everything in this series, there is just no budget information, unfortunately. This film also didn't apparently have a domestic release, though it did premiere in LA 08/19/2005. But it sounds like that's it as far as actual theatrical play here in The States. This is weird, though. It did open in Japan 08/23/2003, seemingly side by side with the first film.
• 55:55
  But I don't know. The first film, you know, played in 2002 at the at Screamfest, and then it says it didn't play theatrically till 08/23/2003. I I don't know if there's faulty information online, and they've just somebody crossed their their data as far as the release dates, but they're both listed as having been released theatrically in Japan, 08/23/2003. It's entirely possible. I but and that's all I found, unfortunately.
• 56:23
  So, anyway, this movie went on to earn 2,700,000.0 internationally or 4,700,000.0 in today's elders. So not
• 56:29
  Andy Nelson: as well as the first film,
• 56:30
  Andy Nelson: but still decent enough. Alright.
• 56:33
  Pete Wright: I'm glad we finally got here. I'm glad we didn't have to end on Pete being such a horrible downer.
• 56:38
  Andy Nelson: I know. I'll be honest. This was a real surprising turn in the franchise, and I had a great time watching this one.
• 56:45
  Pete Wright: That's a really good point. I expected this to be bad, which maybe also is why I thought that it was sort of good.
• 56:57
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. You know, you get
• 56:58
  Pete Wright: to number four in a series and it's like, okay. Really? What are we doing? Even though you could say this was kind of number two, but really it was number six. Like, you know, come on.
• 57:08
  Andy Nelson: It's hard to say. But yeah. No. I get it. I I mean, I I really enjoyed it.
• 57:12
  It was a lot of fun. And so far, my curiosity has peaked to check out more of these, but maybe just black ghost, white ghost.
• 57:19
  Pete Wright: Okay. Alright.
• 57:20
  Andy Nelson: Well, that's it for this series. Next week, we're going to be kicking off our golden jubilee nineteen seventy five's pioneering visions in global cinema series with Stanley Kubrick's Barry Lyndon. Here's a quick break. We'll be right back with our ratings.
• 57:35
  Andy Nelson: Welcome, brave soul, to the haunted heart of cinema. I'm your host, a humble explorer of the macabre, and this is a journey into the unknown where the lines between film and reality blur. As we venture deeper into this haunted house, the air grows colder, The shadows longer. But fear not for we are not alone here. The spirits that linger in these halls are not the vengeful ghosts of legend, but something altogether different.
• 58:12
  Follow me, and let us discover the secret that dwells within these walls. Behold the next reel, a film podcast that dares to explore the deepest, darkest corners of cinema. The spirits here are drawn to it, finding solace in the discussions of the films that haunt them. And now the spirits whisper, you too can join the secret society. This cabal of cinephiles who gather in the haunted halls of the next real.
• 58:45
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• 59:28
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• 59:55
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• 1:00:20
  Pete Wright: Letterboxd, Andrew. Letterboxd.com/thenextreel. Is that what it is? Yeah. That's what it is.
• 1:00:27
  Letterboxd.com/thenextreel. That's where you can find our HQ page where we put all our reviews. That's where we assign our stars and hearts. What are you gonna do for this one?
• 1:00:37
  Andy Nelson: Again, I had a lot of fun with this one. Like, for me, I put this on par with the first slash third film, because I just think that they did like, Shimizu really changed things up with the story and made it a lot of fun in the way things are happening. So this is easy to give four and a four and a heart to.
• 1:00:59
  Pete Wright: Okay. Okay. Okay. I came in. Oh, man.
• 1:01:05
  What did I do? So I gave the grudge to
• 1:01:09
  Andy Nelson: You're a three and a heart, three and a heart, two and a heart.
• 1:01:12
  Pete Wright: Yeah. So curse to three and a heart. The grudge, two stars. And a heart.
• 1:01:19
  Andy Nelson: You you you relented and gave a heart.
• 1:01:22
  Pete Wright: I did? Okay. So I'll update that. And then so for the grudge two, I think I'm gonna I came in hard three stars, no heart. But now, Andy, I'm gonna give it a heart.
• 1:01:33
  What do you think of that?
• 1:01:34
  Andy Nelson: So three star look at that. So 3323 is your rating.
• 1:01:39
  Pete Wright: Yeah. 3323.
• 1:01:41
  Andy Nelson: Okay. All with hearts. Look at that. Okay. Well, that averages out to three and a half stars and a heart over at our account at, the next reel over on Letterbox.
• 1:01:51
  You can find me there at soda greek film. You can find Pete there at Pete Wright. So what did you think about Jew on the grudge two? We would love to hear your thoughts. Hop into the show talk channel over in our Discord community where we will be talking about the movie this week.
• 1:02:04
  When the movie ends Our conversation begins. I mean, if you were to rank these in order of preference, what would your ranking be?
• 1:02:30
  Pete Wright: One, four,
• 1:02:34
  Andy Nelson: two, three. I was yeah. I that that sounds like about what I was thinking that you would end.
• 1:02:40
  Pete Wright: What would you do?
• 1:02:42
  Andy Nelson: Would probably do three four, but, I mean, it could even be four three. I might like this one the best. I'm I'm torn between these two. Like, I really enjoy them. I'd probably do 4312.
• 1:02:59
  43 or 3412. Yeah.
• 1:03:02
  Pete Wright: Okay.
• 1:03:05
  Andy Nelson: Letterbox giveth, Andrew. As Letterboxd always doeth.
• 1:03:10
  Pete Wright: Okay. So I'm on the record of saying that I actually thought Toshio was scarier than Kayako. Yes. Because I think little kids are scary inherently. I'm terrified of them.
• 1:03:23
  As as John Mulaney says, I'll butcher this. He's talking actually about teenagers. The only group that I detest and still want their approval. That's kind of how I feel about kids in general. Here we go.
• 1:03:36
  This is evil Bjork who gives it two stars. This movie felt like such a slog to get through even though there is a consistent amount of scary scenes. I think it's because it's so hard to make a little boy in white makeup look menacing. There's even a scene in where Angie's squatting outside in broad daylight. It's so strange to see, and there was never a moment where it was actually scary.
• 1:03:56
  Directing isn't the worst, but it's not scary or interesting at all. Okay. Alright. Ouch. Ouch for evil Bjork, but I get it.
• 1:04:07
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I feel like that that taps into your vibe with a lot of this. Yeah.
• 1:04:13
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Alright. What do you got?
• 1:04:15
  Andy Nelson: I got Mason Kaiser's three star that says, me at the gender reveal party. Congratulations. It's a grudge.
• 1:04:28
  Pete Wright: Gross. There are a lot in that vibe. Boy, that Kayako can sure hold a grudge. Right. Yeah.
• 1:04:35
  Okay. Come on. Thanks, Letterboxd.