Latest / Skin Anarchy / The Master Of Moisturizing Skincare, and Creator Of Japan’s Best Selling Hyaluronic Acid Products

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The Master Of Moisturizing Skincare, and Creator Of Japan’s Best Selling Hyaluronic Acid Products · Skin Anarchy

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• 1:56
  SPEAKER_06: And it was from a YouTuber that I was following at the time.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_06: And I saw the brand and I was like, I've got to try it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_06: So ever since then, I got hooked onto hyaluronic acid and then, you know, the rest is history.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_06: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to um, you know, the chief chemist, one of the most legendary chemists of our time in Skin Health, um, and also someone who is leading the team um for innovation at Epicutus.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_06: So Masunori Tamura.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_06: Welcome to the show, Marky.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_06: I'm so excited to host you.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, thank you so much.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so but uh let me say uh the first is thank you so much for inviting and hosting me today.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so sorry to be here.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_06: It is it is truly my honor.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_06: I am such a huge fan of your work, and I can't wait to dive into all of the science.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_06: But first, I want to learn all about you, Marky.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_06: I want to learn all about your background and your you know, everything, like how everything started with Hadolabo and um now with Epicutist, you know, if you could walk us down memory lane.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: Of course, of course.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_05: So so okay, uh, my name is again, so my name is Masanori Tamura.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so right now I am the BP of product development at Signal Bioscience, also the chief formulator of Epicutis skincare.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_05: So actually, like 2023 is my 20 year anniversary of my career as skincare formulators.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_05: So I can't believe I'm just saying 20 years.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_05: So like my first 10 years in Japan and another 10 years in the US.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_05: So I started my career at Loto Pharmaceutical in Japan.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_05: So Loto Pharmaceutical is a big Japanese pharma company which owns a lot of skincare brands, as well as were recognized as world number one eye drop manufacturers.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_05: So this is where I developed hydronic acid skincare brand named Hadalabo.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_05: It was like uh 2004 or 2005.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_05: So you knew this Hadalabo, right?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_06: How did you how did you know that, Hadalabo?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_06: So I I actually discovered Hadalabo through um there was a YouTuber at the time, and this was when no one was talking about skincare, actually, Marky.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_06: And I was very interested, you know, I wanted to find the best brands, and this specific influencer, she was very, very um into skin health, you know, really the facts, and she recommended Hadalavo, and I was like, oh my gosh, I have to try this brand.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_06: And then I remember, I remember just getting so excited and trying the formula and just falling in love.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_06: So it was it was like a huge eye-opener for me when I first tried your product.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah, so oh my yes, I'm so glad to hear that because I always ask American people if they know Hadalabo when I have a chance, but that actually not many people know that say yes, so it's always made me sad.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_05: But uh, so I I want to explain about Hadalabo first.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_05: So as you know, like hyaluronic acid is everywhere in the United States right now, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_05: Every single skincare product is a hirinic acid.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_05: But uh but did you know Japan is the first place hydronic acid was utilized in the skincare?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_05: Did you know that?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_05: No, wow.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_05: So actually, hydronic acid the booming in the skincare started from Japan.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_05: It's like a 2000 line.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and then more specifically say it's starting from meat.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_05: I would say that's so cool! Yeah, so because like I so the hydrolic acid used to be very, very expensive, yeah, but uh so around like a 2000, so so Japan's company established to mass production of the hydrolic acid by fermentation method.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_05: So because Japan, do you like it?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_06: Like do you like a sushi?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, well, I've had sushi.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not I can't eat um any seafood, but I do like sushi.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_05: So in so when you eat sushi, like uh you you're gonna use soy sauce, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_05: So in Japan, a lot of food is made by fermentation, a lot of food, so that's why we have a lot of fermentation technologies.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_05: So that's why the so we Japanese companies making a lot of hyaluron acid by fermentation technologies.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_05: That's why so Japan is really big from the hydronic acid.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, and then actually, like at Hadalabo, uh we launched had a lot of pharmaceutical launched Hadalabo in 2004 or 5, and then Hadalabo got a big success in Japan, and they became Japan's number one skincare brand around 2007 or 2008.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_05: So and it was sold every two seconds, the product like it's it's that sounds cool, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and then so we started to launch Hadalabo at Asian different countries around 2008, so like uh going China, Korea, Taiwan, so Malaysia, Indonesia, and so on.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_05: So so every time so with Hadalabo international expansions, it's gave it gave a lot of international exposure to me.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_05: So every time we launched Hadalab at different countries, I visited there to present the story behind the brand.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: So it was so fun.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_05: And uh at the moment, so I think you know you know in the even right now in the United States, so many skin care brands saying so we have different molecular size of hydrogen acid.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we have high molecular weight, medium molecular weight, like a small molecular weight, and then it's gonna be like a multi-layer moisturization.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_05: Everybody doing in the United States, right?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_05: Right, right.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_05: But uh actually we studied the kind of like stories from in the HADA labels, yeah because because we successfully control the molecular weight of a hyaluronic acid, like a 2000, around 2000.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_05: And then also we develop like a lot of different derivatives of a hyaluronic acid, so adding different functions to the hyaluronic acid, more like not only moisturization, but also the wound healing or that kind of stuff.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_06: That's why that's so interesting.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_06: I I don't want to interrupt you, but I I want to ask you this because I mean you are literally the person to ask about you know hyaluronic acid, is that when I discovered the ingredient, I didn't know anything about it, you know, at the time.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_06: Like I was so confused.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_06: But like one thing, you know, everyone was talking about was this I, you know, this idea that we still talk about, which is that um it retains water, you know, it's going to hold water a thousand times more, you know, than normal.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_06: And so that was the first exposure I had as a consumer, you know, to understanding scientifically what it's doing.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_06: But you know, I I really want to learn from you like what is the purpose of the different um, you know, molecular weights of hyaluronic acid?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_06: And what why do we want, you know, with formulations I I've noticed, you know, you with your formulations, you also have like four different uh types of hyaluronic acid, right?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_06: And you're in your Hadolavo um formula.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_06: So what is the role of that?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_06: You know, these different sizes.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_05: So it's a different size can penetrate different layer of the skin.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_05: So so basically like a regular high, you it's it's called high molecular weight of hyaluronic acid.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_05: It's like uh like uh one point, like more than one medium, uh one million diamolecular weight, that is very high.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_05: So that kind of like a high molecular weight hydrogen acid doesn't penetrate at all, it stays on the skin.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_05: But but even stay on the skin, they have a purpose because the high molecular weight hydrogen acid can protect on the skin and then to stop evaporating water from the skin inside the skin, and also it's gonna help skin barrier.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_06: So it's like a protection mechanism.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_05: It's like a we call hydronic bail, hydronic acid bail on the skin.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but what about what about the lower ones then?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_06: The smaller, so the smaller uh types they go into the skin, they're able to penetrate.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like uh can go penetrate, it depends on the molecular weight, yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_05: But uh like uh it can go penetrate into the like uh uh like a so go to the like uh so surface of the skin.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_05: But the stare can be uh can go into the epidermis, something like that.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_05: But uh so one thing you need to care what uh uh we need you need to care about is if the hyaluronic acid so low, very low molecular with hyaluronic acid, it's like uh less than 500, it might be work as pro-inflammatory agent.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_05: Oh wow, yes, that's why so you need to care, you need to be careful about that.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_05: So that's why I always say not go to the too much low molecular weight hyaluronic acid.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_05: So you need to be careful about this.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_05: So let's say like a maybe more than more than 10k molecular weight.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like a more like a more than 10k to like a one medium molecular weight.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_06: So you want we want the hyaluronic to be sitting on top of our skin.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_06: That's the best way, then would you agree to utilize it or not?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_05: So actually, uh, do you know the lipid serum of the epicutis?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_05: You're using like a high molecular weight hyaluron acid, which can stay on the skin, and then it's gonna be the protecting the skin.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_05: This is the one way uh of the hyaluronic acid.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_05: But at the same time, you can use like a mid-size hyaluronic acid, more than 10,000 molecular weight, which can penetrate inside skin, and then it's to keep moisturized more moistures uh inside the skin.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_06: Now, Margie, I want to know in terms of just hyaluronic acid, you know, because this is such a huge ingredient now, like you said, you know, America, like, you know, we the American markets blew up, you know, with this information when it came to the US.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_06: You know, everyone was saying you have to have hyaluronic acid in your skincare routine, it's a must, you know, and it's so many brands, you know, to this day are marketing the whole skincare line around hyaluronic acid.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_06: So my biggest question is really you know, what is the difference between just buying a product that is a hyaluronic acid product versus buying a formula that has it in the formula, but it's not just that, you know, it's got everything else also in there.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_06: Is there a difference in terms of stability or uh efficacy of the hyaluronic when you combine it with other ingredients in a in a serum or something?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, for yes, for example, so you know uh skin also having ability to produce like a hyaluronic acid inside the skin.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_05: So so for example, we we have like cygnum have like uh the botanical extract which call like chia sheet extract, so which is which is formulated in the epicurites like a high bea cream.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_05: So for example, chir sheet oil have like a have uh like an enhancement of the hyaluronic acid production inside the skin.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_05: Interesting.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: So we can provide hyaluronic acid itself from the skin care, but at the same time, we can provide uh the active ingredients which can promote the hyaluronic acid productions, so skin already have the abilities.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, and that's so interesting because you know, um, I know what you mean, like the hyaluronic for everyone listening, you know, um I think all of us are kind of aware now that, you know, the hyaluronic is in the dermal layers, it's it's really there for the scaffolding reason, you know.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_06: Like so, so I my biggest question then is that what is the difference between the hyaluronic acid that our body is naturally producing for that scaffolding purpose versus what we utilize in skincare?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_06: You know, is there a different purpose or is it really that we're trying to mimic because it doesn't, you know what I mean?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_06: It doesn't make sense if we do it topically things work differently, as you know, you know, than if we ingest them.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_06: So, what is your biggest advice, you know, to consumers when they're utilizing this ingredient and you know what they should be doing with it rather than just assuming it's you know what I mean, going into the skin and yeah, but yeah, but but that I understand.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: So that's why actually the epicudies uh we're gonna use so uh we're offering two products, like lipid serum and uh high B acre because so in the lipid serum, we're gonna provide high molecular hydrogen acid, which is kind of like a hydronic acid base, so it's like a protection of the skin, but uh like it never goes into the like the dummy.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_05: That's why in the high clean we're gonna provide such oil, uh, which can enhance like a hydronic acid production in the dummy.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_05: So that is a way we provide hydronic acid like a moisturization from the BOS product.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_06: That's interesting.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_06: Now, so what are some of the things that you say, like okay, so hyaluronic acid itself is making this film on top of the skin and it's protecting it.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_06: But then what is it that we can also use?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_06: Like, you know, for example, let me let me give you the example I'm thinking, you know, when I remember a few years ago, polyglutamic acid became this huge thing, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_06: And everyone was saying that, you know, it's this it's even better than hyaluronic, you know, it's it's got more hydration potential, all this stuff, you know.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_06: But really, you know, it comes back to the same question is is it really better, you know, or is it just this idea that a humectant is a humectant and that's it?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_06: You know, I I want I want to know, you know, really, is there a difference?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_06: Because in this industry, what I know, and I'm sure you've seen it, there's so much marketing, you know, unlike brands.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_06: You know, you've worked for brands that are really and you've you've created these products that are really efficacious, but unlike your formulations, there are many out there that are just saying, you know, marketing stuff, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_06: So the consumers are getting confused.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_06: They're thinking, oh, if I do this or if I add this much hyaluronic, and and on top of that, I add the polyglutamic acid, I will have this amazing dewy, glowy skin.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_06: But is that really necessary?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_06: You know, like is it that's what I want to know?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, so it's it's actually a good question.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_05: So because so uh hydronic acid is so big to become so big and so famous.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_05: That's why so everybody uh using like uh everybody wanna compare with hydrogen acid.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_05: This ingredient is better than hydrolic acid.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_05: This is better than hydronic acid, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_05: But uh so basically based on my knowledge, it's there's no big difference, so actually.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_05: So but the hydrog acid is actually like a so human body already have hydrolic acid inside, right?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_05: So the human body has like a familiar familiar familiar with hydrogen acid.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_05: So there's a no risk about like allergy or something.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_05: So that's why I'm I prefer to keep using hydrogen acid.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_05: And then I'm not using like a any other like for marketing purpose of the different like a like a polymer or something.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_05: So that I would uh yeah, I would recommend because hydrogen acid longer history to be utilizing to the skin, right?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there's more data, more data, so that's why the most safe.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_05: That's yeah, that that's the reason I I I'm gonna keep using hydric acid for the emotionalizations.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_06: I love that, and that's that's a really good.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_06: I'm glad that you said that because I hope everyone listening, you took notes because we'd you know that's that's my biggest problem, right?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_06: As a scientist, I also look at all of this marketing, you know, and all these brands, and everyone is telling these, you know, big words and saying, oh, you know, you need this also, you need this.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_06: But I've never felt that, you know, as a consumer, if you have a good hyaluronic acid product, it's going to work and it's going to do its job, and then that's it.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_06: You can't expect hyaluronic acid to be doing what retinol is doing, you know.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_06: You know, so I, you know, with that, I want to actually um ask you, you know, what has the journey been like for you transitioning from Padalabo and and the culture in Japan around skin health to the culture now in America around skin health?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_06: What is the biggest differences you've seen, you know, um in both areas of the world?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_06: And and you know, any takeaways that you can share with us?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, actually it's it's a good question.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_05: So because like I came to the United States like 10 years ago.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: So when I came to the United States, I was so excited, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, wow, the United States is the world number one skincare market, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_05: And then like a center of the innovations, I was so excited, and then but actually what I was surprised most was uh like a big like a cosmetic regulation difference between Japan and the United States.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, like a Japan government highly regulates cosmetics, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_05: But uh but the United States don't regulate much.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_05: So I I think like a United States is one of the least regulated countries regarding the cosmetics.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm gonna give you a couple examples.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_05: So like a Japan government has a list of the preservatives which can be allowed to be used in the cosmetics with limited dose.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_05: Because like a preservatives are very important factor of the formulation to keep product clean, but at the same time, it can be harmful to the skin.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_05: So that is why, like in Japan, we select preservative.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: very carefully and they even try to develop preservative free formulation in Japan.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_05: But however however in the United States there's no regulation about preservative.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_05: So it means it means that like a formulator can put any preservative with any amount.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_05: So that's scary.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_05: So of course with a lot of preservative all or bacteria can can be killed in the formulation.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_06: But that yeah is it is it really safe to the skin yeah that's that's that's see that's an amazing point you made because I always wondered that too is like too much preservative can kill your microbiome can't it exactly yeah so and then and then like from like an American customer's perspective so it is almost impossible to know how much preservative the product because no information on the package so exactly exactly and you know what this is I'm sorry I keep interrupting but I'm so excited to hear you say this stuff because this is exactly what I I have been thinking about and I always wonder why scientists are not speaking up about this honestly Marty because this idea of dosing is there in the East you know what I mean the the dose it exists but in America you don't see non formulations you don't see parts per million or international units of this you know you don't see those numbers and I always wondered you know why we should know these things because if you are for example you know stepping away from hyaluronic acid thinking about something like retinol retinol is everywhere right everyone is using retinol but no one is telling you how much retinol is in the formula it's they're just saying this is level one level two level three level four I don't know what that means you know that's yeah so it's very interesting.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah actually I want to talk about let no as well so so for example in Japan and uh so in order to launch like a sum of the cosmetics product with like a certain cream such as like let no cream for anti-linkal or like a vitamin C serum with skin brightening cream so uh we need to submit all like formulation ingredient information or like a stability data up to three years and then safety data to the Japan government then we need to get their approval so it will take years or like a couple years it's taking a lot of time but from the customer standpoint from Japanese customer standpoint they can use product without worry right yeah because they know let no let no cream in three years later will work as the same as a fresh product because Japan government already debut all data and then give give the approval on it see that's very interesting because uh right now what I'm noticing in our industry here in America just to contrast with what you said is that a lot of brands will come up with an innovation and they immediately bring it to market.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_06: And I always wonder where the heck is the clinical data?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like why is that why is that not required?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_06: It just it makes no sense.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_06: Every scientist in the world can agree that before we have data we don't publish anything.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_06: There's no way you know and it could be the same for the for these over the counter products.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_06: But unfortunately here we're not seeing that but I really like the Japanese method here that you've explained because I think that's how proper science could be done you know that's that's the essence of science.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly so exactly so in the United States none of them are required so there's a no notification no legislation no like approval system in the place so that's why there are so many letn cream or vitamin C serums in the United States right yeah but from the customer standpoint so there's no way to know how long this letn cream is stable or how long this vitamin C serum is stable because let no vitamin C is very unstable ingredient.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_05: So so like it can be gone in like one week or one month but uh but the customer believe it's gonna let no stay on the product for at least like six months one one year right right right but that no that's a that's a good point.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_06: There's a no data required in the United States and you know you can you can claim anything also you know with retinal what I've noticed is that a lot of people say oh this is going to you know it's going to completely change your skin it's going to increase density of your skin honestly when I look into the research and I look at the real you know for the for everyone listening when you really read the papers about retinol you realize how old those studies are.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_06: These are very old studies.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_06: You know there's very few studies from 2020 and onwards about retinol.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_06: So it's very important to understand that you know like there are things that are just older molecules or older formulations that we have now be you know we've done better now you know like for example Martin your work with Epicutus I mean epicutis is in my opinion is a leading brand you know what you've created there is so magical I absolutely love the lipid serum it's so good it makes your skill yeah I mean you see results it's the results are there and again the data is there.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_06: So I as a consumer I don't have to worry about you know okay is this going to be good for me or not because I see it you know visibly I can see the difference.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_06: So my question for you really here is you know what is your approach when you're coming to a new formulation and say you know say you want to create something new where do you start with your homework you know in terms of what you want to do and what approach you want to take um from a formulation perspective so I think so for the base formulation because I being uh so I want to make it like a more Japanese standard right so in the Japanese standard it's it has to be clean and it has to be like from the like a preservative perspective and also that it has to be safe and also it has to be stable yeah so so for doing that like actually for example if we pick up the ethno or vitamin C so so we need to formulate a lot of different ingredients a lot of ingredients we need to formulate in order to stabilize etno or vitamin C so this ingredient is not for the skin these ingredients for the stabilizing the ethno of vitamin C but the that ingredient sometimes to be toxic so I really don't want to formulate the ingredient for let node or vitamin C.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_06: I only I I wanna only formulate for the skin good for skin right yeah yeah so actually that is why so I love the signal so so actually when I when I met uh with like Max stock who is CEO of the Signal Bioscience so I I think yeah you met with him before right yeah I've interviewed Max yeah exactly he was in this podcast and uh like that was like 2016 I met with him because like uh signal bioscience is like a biotech company uh located in the Princeton New Jersey and they owned a very unique and globally patented like anti-inflammatory compound known as isoprene is isopranyl system so which is developed by Jeffrey Sauk who is a molecular biology professor of Princeton University so and uh and then like a so like it's Signal actually signal and the Lord pharmaceutical have a long relationship to learn a lot of collaborative research but but I I but I I have met with him in person until then but uh the the point is so when we pick the active so from my perspective from my as skincare formulators when I pick up the active it has to be stable and also it has to be clinically proven and then also it has to be toxicology testing yes yeah it has to be like a more safety data own it so that is what signal is owning the data signal doing a lot of data yeah their focus is on safety that's I love that that's really good of course and but not only the safety but also the efficacy as well right right right because like Signam is like a long history like 20 years history but the most of the time signal developed the developed new drug development doing the new drug development so like uh through the uh like coupled NIH funding right so because new drug development and cosmetic develop development is totally different world right like because for the new drug development there's a they require a lot of data efficacy safety toxicology so and then the signal using the same approach to the cosmetic product development that's why so signal has the very active potent uh anti-inflammatory ingredient which has a lot of data that's what I love that's what I love for the signal and I love for our compound yeah and I love your formulations I I'm not gonna yeah because because the formulation is because for the uh the skincare formulators it's always the most exciting moment to find ideal active ingredients right yeah so that's why I saw this is it this is one when I met with Max okay this compound is uh my active and I'm gonna I'm gonna make special formulation with this active that's so cool I love that that is how that is how I choose active and that this is how I the building of my formulations I really love that that's so cool and that's truly in the spirit of science I love that you've you know you you have that in inbuilt in you as you know as a scientist because that is I think doing justice to our consumers to the people that are buying these products because we rely on the the formulators and the people who are behind the scenes to do due uh diligence, right?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_06: I mean that's part of yeah and and and also the American culture you know going back to what we were talking about with like the regulations um I as a consumer knowing that things are not as regulated in this country I will much rather feel safe purchasing a formulation from a brand that I know the chemist is extremely well versed in what they're doing.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_06: Rather than just random brand don't know who's making the product you know don't know and there's so many brands like that nowadays that it just drives me crazy, you know?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_06: But I I want to talk to you Marquis I know that you guys just published a great paper and um it's uh for everyone listening it's it's I'm gonna link it with the concept art for this but I want to talk about this paper.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_06: Um the new brightening botanical extract that you wrote about if you could tell us all about that.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah yes so so this is the the new scheme brightening uh botanical episode which is bad seed oil so uh do you know the badock seed yeah bardok yeah bardock seed yes so this is very famous for the Chinese heart and then and then actually so our our approach to develop the new botanical extract is we always find active in the botanical extract for example so in this product seed oil so we found like archigeny which is one of the frabonoid and the food uh which has very strong skin brightening potency so we already know archigenin is very strong potency of the skin brightening that's why and then we uh we researched it and then we found badoxed badoxed contain high amount of archigenin and then we we make extraction from the badoxed oil and then we try to enrich it of the archigenic that make our extract is very unique because uh we are developing enrichment arroxy enrichment but seed oil which is nobody has and uh so we had like we have in vitro casting and also inbibo casting so where we so you do you know the caustic acid yeah cool yes cosic cosic acid is very famous skin brightening agent yes yes but uh but the problem of the causic acid is a very strong uh skin brightening agent but it's also barely irritation making make uh skin irritated right right that is a problem of the causic acid but uh we found our uh oxygen enriched uh bugsid oil uh we call absol so which is same potency as caustic acid but no side effect wow that's that's really big yeah so is it working on tyrosinase is it inhibiting the tyrosinase well no different mechanism it's uh it's for more anti-inflammatory like uh effect i see okay yeah because hyperpigmentation is i feel like these days you know in the in the world of cosmetic chemistry everyone talks about like tyrosinase inhibitors you know as the only thing that can work with hyperpigmentation but i don't agree at all you know oh no yeah that is not true yeah no i'm i'm glad that you're you're explaining that because honestly anti-inflammatory i mean i'm a huge believer in that you know inflammation is there to show you that something is wrong you know in your whether it's in your skin your body that's just what it is you know and I think a lot of times many brands or even consumers they find these products that are just you know like you said earlier you know things can cause inflammation and you might not even know it you know so just too small of you know of a weight of hyaluronic acid or like you just mentioned just now cogic acid but you know consumers aren't aware of that they don't understand the role of inflammation and so it's really interesting to see in the for something like hyperpigmentation you want to have a more gentle approach right i mean i mean am I correct exactly exactly so that that that's very important because tyrosinas inhibitor is sometimes is very like it's strong and then it's sometimes very toxic so that's why we want to use like anti-inflammatory like a the uh the uh efficacies so because that is kind of our signal approach so because so signal means the our compound is very strong anti-inflammatory effect not only ABSO but also our IPC compound as well and uh because anti-inflammatory is kind of the the basic cause of all anti-aging or um the problem of the skin okay because like a hyperpigmentations the the link everything's came from like inflammations yeah yeah inflammation and and it's also at the at the root of aging you know inflammation it's so that's that's very good a good point that you made is that you guys are so focused on this anti-inflammatory you know uh direction that you're going in with your formulations because it it's now coming out more and more even in you know uh just normal physiology papers you know that I read from time to time you know um in other areas right of health that inflammation is the number one contributor to aging whether that's your you know whether that's for your skin whether it's your liver whether it's your heart it doesn't matter everywhere in the body and so the more we can focus on anti-inflammation the better off we're going to have uh with our products and also with our overall results you know and and that's something that I think that that's I'm I'm behind you with that you know because that it's real science there.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_06: Now one thing I want to ask you Martin is you know I want some advice uh from you for the listeners about how long you should you know stick to a formula before you switch because I think many times consumers they will try a product for three days and then say no I'm done you know and so it's so harsh for us.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah so I I want you to I want you to tell us you know like how long should we be staying on one single formula you know yeah like uh so how do I say like let's say one month but but uh but uh actually so our our lipid recovery epit lipid recovery mask we we are having the face mask in the epic and uh so this is a result so you can see the before after result just one usage it's like a 15 minutes yeah everybody yeah everybody so because like we actually we recommend our like a lip recovery mask after the like a like a post post procedures in the clinic so like for example in in if you go to the clinic and if you have a like a micro needling or a laser treatment so uh your face is gonna be left right it's a lot of like uh inflammation happening on the on the face so that's why after the treatment we clearly recommend to use our lipid recovery mask after the treatment like for 15 minutes in the cream but then there's a lot of people saying just after the 15 minutes like deadness and irritation it's gone wow so because so because we I formulated very high high dose of our compound in the in the like a face mask and then we also using biocellulos mass in the face have you ever heard biocellose mass yeah yeah I've used it with my burn patients actually yes so biocellus mass is really good uh for the like a penetration uh penetration enhancement as well as like a cooling effect that's why we we pick up the biocellus mask in our epicutis and I'm gonna combine bioceral mask and our our compound uh we the which call in a TSC so and uh we I formulated a very high dose of a TSC so we can see very instant result in the the face mask.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_06: No I like that because you know what fat face masks are my favorite I honestly say this I say this in every single podcast I say you know my favorite type of product is the face mask because I feel like they're you know they're so targeted and I really really love um yours I've tried them and I am obsessed and you definitely can see a difference not only with the inflammation but even with the plumping of your skin your skin looks more hydrated it's a great way to prep for your makeup application great to prep for you know anything if in the day so i i think yeah i'm a huge fan i mean everything that we've made that sounds yes and actually so so because recovery placement is so popular it's becoming so popular so we start developing neck and decorate mask as well oh wow it's a different shape but uh because neck and decorte is kind of the phrase you can see like an aging sign here uh you can see a lot of like a link here so i really wanna care about make and decorte that's why we we also develop neck and decorate mask biosheros mask so actually i i cope with uh biosheros like a supplier and then try to make a new shape for the naked decor pair mask wow so we uh yeah we develop the shape uh with uh suppliers so nobody knows nobody has our shape so this is all this is only us well i'm gonna you have to send it to me when it's ready yeah of course of course i'm gonna send it to you you you're gonna love it you're gonna I know I'm gonna I'm gonna advertise it everywhere I I love everything you make marky come on now no I mean honestly this this is so cool you know to talk to you it's so surreal I'm such a fan you know when I first I for everyone listening when Marky said yes to coming on the show I was like so starstruck because I've been following your work since Hadalabo and I've been oh my god I'm such a fan and you are truly you know sorry you are a scientist in the full form you know and I I respect you so much for your work so I just want to say thank you and I want to say you know thank you for coming on the show and sharing your knowledge with us.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah yeah I was so yeah it's so it's so honored to be here and uh it's it's just so and I'm I'm so glad you knew how the lavo and then and then I'm so glad you love epicutis.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely no and everyone listening I'm going to link Hadalabo and Epicutis in the concept art so make sure you check out both brands and just look at the form I mean everything that Marky has created you can feel it you know as soon as you touch the product you can feel the quality you can feel how beautiful these products are you know and Epicutus is just hands down phenomenal brand phenomenal products you will definitely love it as soon as you try it so a huge huge recommendation here from my end as well you know check out the brand like we said I've also interviewed Maxwell stock um you know and the CEO of Cygnum and so I would love for you guys to really get your hands on Epicutus just to you know get a feel for what we've discussed here and and really feel the the quality of Marky's formulas because they're next level you know they're they're truly yes and thank you very much yeah and I I want to say one one more thing so so like all our Epicutis product is preservative free formulation so that's really I want it to do in the United States because there's no no regulation about preservative that's why I really want to deliver preservative free formulation to the United States people so so no irritation at all so please try our product out and then feel it please absolutely no absolutely I love that and I love that I love that Epicurus is you know you guys are put you you're putting safety first you know that is the the end at the end of the day that's what we want from our brands you know we want that safety we want that you know good formula that comes with the the science and the knowledge and so this is definitely a brand I recommend to everybody listening you know if you're looking for a new like product or set of products or a whole line this is where you go you know this is the best of the best so thank you so much Marky this was such an honor to host you and I'm such a fan and I always will be but I can't wait I'd love for you to come back anytime if you have time.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_06: So of course thank you so much for the inviting us thank you very much and everyone listening everyone listening make sure you uh check out everything and um I will link everything like I said but thank you for listening and I will be back next time.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you so much.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_06: Hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts brand founders industry leaders authors all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 48:57
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• 49:05
  SPEAKER_06: We also have a blog on Medium so if you're a reader and you love medium blogs check us out on Medium.
• 49:11
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• 49:21
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• 49:28
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• 49:32
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you