Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #379 Jason Flom with Keith LaMar Pt. 1

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#379 Jason Flom with Keith LaMar Pt. 1 · Wrongful Conviction

0:02
Speaker 1: On Easter Sunday nineteen ninety three, inmates at Lucasville Prison
0:05
Speaker 1: in Ohio took control of an entire cell block. The
0:09
Speaker 1: crisis that became known as the Lucasville Prison Riot lasted
0:12
Speaker 1: eleven days and claimed ten lives, including one of the
0:16
Speaker 1: prison guards. When the cell block was finally surrendered, an
0:20
Speaker 1: investigation ensued aimed at bringing the riot leadership to justice.
0:25
Speaker 1: After several rounds of interviews, five names emerged, including a
0:28
Speaker 1: man who lived on that cell block named Keith Lamar Now.
0:32
Speaker 1: According to the state, Keith had allegedly commanded a team
0:35
Speaker 1: of men who murdered four supposed snitches before heading out
0:39
Speaker 1: to the prison yard, where the authorities ushered all the
0:41
Speaker 1: inmates into another block that was still under state controlled. Then,
0:46
Speaker 1: while confined in a cell with nine other men, he
0:48
Speaker 1: allegedly ordered one more death. The other inmates weren't telling
0:52
Speaker 1: this particular story in their initial interviews, but by the
0:55
Speaker 1: time of Keith's Capitol trial, they were all somehow singing
0:58
Speaker 1: the same tune and that had to count for something.
1:03
Speaker 1: But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction.
1:18
Speaker 1: Today's guest is somebody I've been waiting for for a
1:22
Speaker 1: long time. His story. As terrifying as it is, it's
1:26
Speaker 1: also the stuff of legend because this is a man
1:29
Speaker 1: and Keith, I'm talking about you. I'm talking about you
1:31
Speaker 1: in the third person. I'm going to talk directly to you. Now, Keith,
1:33
Speaker 1: do you have had a life that if somebody wrote
1:37
Speaker 1: it into a movie nobody would believe it? And this
1:40
Speaker 1: is a guy. Now I'm back to talking about the
1:42
Speaker 1: third person who has performed concerts all over the world
1:47
Speaker 1: from inside of your cell on death Throw.
1:49
Speaker 2: It sounds bizarre when I hear you say it, you know,
1:53
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's been It's been a hell of a
1:55
Speaker 2: journey man to say, at least in this situation that
1:58
Speaker 2: I'm currently facing, has only focus me more all trying
2:02
Speaker 2: to get as much life out of my life as
2:05
Speaker 2: I possibly can.
2:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, despite fighting for your very life from
2:10
Speaker 1: death row, which is literally hell on Earth, your pursuit
2:14
Speaker 1: of art and life seems to have only gotten stronger.
2:18
Speaker 1: And like I just mentioned, you've put on this spoken
2:21
Speaker 1: word and jazz concert series called Freedom First. And if
2:24
Speaker 1: that wasn't enough, you also put out an album by
2:26
Speaker 1: the same name. But there's even more, you know, there's.
2:30
Speaker 2: Books, documentaries, book clubs, and so on and so forth.
2:33
Speaker 2: I'll just wake up and try to do as much
2:35
Speaker 2: as I can with the time that I have, you know,
2:38
Speaker 2: which is what we all should be.
2:39
Speaker 1: Going, right Yeah. I mean I don't even know a
2:42
Speaker 1: lot of people out here in the free world who
2:44
Speaker 1: are living as much as you are inside the literal
2:49
Speaker 1: living hell of Ohio Death Row. And we're going to
2:52
Speaker 1: get into all of that in more detail later on,
2:54
Speaker 1: and we're also going to be hearing from one of
2:56
Speaker 1: your attorneys, Keegan Stefan, as well. But now I just
3:00
Speaker 1: want to turn around first and start from the beginning
3:03
Speaker 1: of your life. You were born and grew up in Cleveland, right, Yeah.
3:07
Speaker 2: I was born in nineteen sixty nine on the east
3:09
Speaker 2: side of Cleveland, Ohio, in a small little enc clave
3:13
Speaker 2: called the Village. You know that I was saying in
3:15
Speaker 2: case of village, I think the people who founded this
3:18
Speaker 2: little place took that seriously. My grandfather, Harry Lamar, brought
3:22
Speaker 2: his own home in this little enc clave. It was
3:24
Speaker 2: made up of people who were in one form or
3:27
Speaker 2: another related and you know, during dinner time, you can
3:30
Speaker 2: walk into any number of houses and you know, people
3:33
Speaker 2: will let you sit down and eat dinner, where there
3:35
Speaker 2: was no distinction about the economic status because everybody was
3:39
Speaker 2: pretty much on the same level. And that's where I
3:42
Speaker 2: really grew up at from a baby until I was
3:44
Speaker 2: around seven or eight, and my mother met and married
3:47
Speaker 2: a man named Larry Morris, and shortly thereafter we moved
3:52
Speaker 2: out of the village into the inner city.
3:54
Speaker 1: Basically, I mean, the village sounds pretty amazing. It seems
3:57
Speaker 1: like an odd choice to leave. What were the circumstances.
4:01
Speaker 2: Well, my grandmother, she was to make sure of our
4:03
Speaker 2: other family, pretty much said what went and what didn't
4:06
Speaker 2: go in our family. And my stepfather didn't like that,
4:10
Speaker 2: and so he moved so he can kind of run
4:12
Speaker 2: his own household. But he was a side or the
4:15
Speaker 2: steff at a country club, working for me good wages.
4:18
Speaker 2: And so that was the first time my life and
4:20
Speaker 2: I ever remember being home grey and sometimes, you know,
4:23
Speaker 2: the lights would be off, the gas would be off,
4:25
Speaker 2: and we had to heat the house with you know,
4:28
Speaker 2: keeping the oven door open and whatnot, and we weren't
4:31
Speaker 2: allowed to tell my grandparents about this. It all kind
4:34
Speaker 2: of happened between nine and twelve years old, and that
4:38
Speaker 2: is where I kind of marked the change in my life,
4:41
Speaker 2: becoming aware of the poverty. You know, you go to
4:45
Speaker 2: school to learn an arithmetic but so your peers teach
4:47
Speaker 2: you other things we couldn't afford. Polo and guest cheane
4:51
Speaker 2: and all these different things that meant so much to
4:54
Speaker 2: my peers.
4:55
Speaker 1: So I take it you wanted to fit in. What
4:57
Speaker 1: did you do to make that happen or to try
4:59
Speaker 1: to make that happen?
5:00
Speaker 2: I worked. I had two paper routes, cutting grass, shoveling snow,
5:04
Speaker 2: you know did all those things? You know of pants
5:06
Speaker 2: might cost fifty sixty dollars. And this is before Eric
5:09
Speaker 2: Jordan came out potennis. Shoot. It was just out of
5:12
Speaker 2: my range as a kid trying to do it a
5:15
Speaker 2: legitimate way. And you know kids are brutal. Man. You know,
5:19
Speaker 2: you show up with some knockoff Jordia's jeans and you
5:22
Speaker 2: mass well came to school. But Neckett, you know, the
5:25
Speaker 2: ridicule was severe. It's all autitary bullshit. But you don't
5:29
Speaker 2: know that when you were a kid. And my brother,
5:32
Speaker 2: when I was saying, who was twelve, he was hanging
5:34
Speaker 2: out with all the kids, and you know he had
5:37
Speaker 2: undergone the same ridicule as I did, and had quickly
5:40
Speaker 2: opt to become a thief once I just made the
5:43
Speaker 2: decision to become a thief myself. He you know, kind
5:46
Speaker 2: of showed me how to go about stealing clothes and
5:50
Speaker 2: how to you know, remove the alarms from the jeans
5:53
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. But then, you know, the reward
5:55
Speaker 2: of coming walking into the school building with some Jordas's
5:58
Speaker 2: jeans and a Polo shirt, The reception that I received
6:02
Speaker 2: from my peers. I mean, all of a sudden, girls
6:04
Speaker 2: who wouldn't speak to me a year ago are putting
6:07
Speaker 2: notes in my locker, and I think I got addicted
6:10
Speaker 2: to that, and so that ultimately became my life. And
6:14
Speaker 2: started hanging with a group of older kids in the neighborhood.
6:17
Speaker 1: And these were the guys that your older brother was
6:19
Speaker 1: friends with.
6:20
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it was a couple of guys like legends
6:23
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood that lived in Joe Butler, Joe Bruce,
6:27
Speaker 2: Daryl Daniels. I was thirteen by then, and they were
6:30
Speaker 2: like fifteen, sixteen years old. And my older brother, Nelson
6:34
Speaker 2: what he had already been sent Toby to juvenile and
6:36
Speaker 2: so I was pretty much by myself and I fell
6:39
Speaker 2: in with these guys one day and we all piled
6:43
Speaker 2: into a stolen car and we was going to drive
6:45
Speaker 2: out to the adjacent suburb. As soon as we crossed
6:48
Speaker 2: over and to Sacred Heights, a police officers got right
6:51
Speaker 2: behind us, and we were in this high speed chase,
6:54
Speaker 2: like on eighty miles an hour, were down a residential district.
6:58
Speaker 2: And I was actually relieved when I got caught, like,
7:01
Speaker 2: thank god, you know, because this was extreme situation for
7:05
Speaker 2: me in my life. And we went before this judge
7:07
Speaker 2: and he lined us all up, was about six of
7:09
Speaker 2: us altogether in our families, and he went down the
7:11
Speaker 2: line and he was giving guy six months for each
7:14
Speaker 2: offense that they had. And he said, Joe Bruce, this
7:17
Speaker 2: your third time in front of me eighteen months. Joe Butler,
7:20
Speaker 2: this your second time a year, you know. And he
7:22
Speaker 2: got down to me. He said, Keith Lamar said, what
7:24
Speaker 2: are you doing hanging with these bad boys? Now? You know,
7:27
Speaker 2: try to look big and you know, hang my head
7:29
Speaker 2: and hunch my shoulders, you know. And he gave my
7:32
Speaker 2: mother and my parents to oper me say, I tell
7:34
Speaker 2: you what I'm gonna do. Parents, you need to take
7:36
Speaker 2: them home and deal with them while I deal with them.
7:39
Speaker 2: And you know, stepfather told him, you deal with them,
7:42
Speaker 2: and fifteen minutes later I was sitting in the jail cell.
7:45
Speaker 1: So given the choice, your stepfather effectively threw you away.
7:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, because to him, my brother and I we were
7:54
Speaker 2: just two extra miles to see.
7:56
Speaker 1: And your mother didn't have anything to say about that.
7:59
Speaker 2: You know, deally, that's what you would have hoped for
8:02
Speaker 2: somebody to intervene. But she she had already been broken
8:05
Speaker 2: to the point where she accepted somebody like this as
8:08
Speaker 2: her husband. You know, any man is better than no man,
8:12
Speaker 2: and as it turns out, he was. He was like
8:14
Speaker 2: a monster. He was, you know, the very abusive.
8:17
Speaker 1: So now you're going from the boiling pot into the
8:21
Speaker 1: sizzling frying pan, so to speak. How long was your
8:24
Speaker 1: stint in Juvie?
8:26
Speaker 2: Six months? But I was thirteen, so it felt like
8:30
Speaker 2: six years, believing or not compared the situation I lived
8:33
Speaker 2: and wasn't so bad. I had pre square meals a day.
8:36
Speaker 2: I was n a structured environment. I came out of it.
8:39
Speaker 2: I was on a on a roll in terms of
8:41
Speaker 2: my academic portion.
8:43
Speaker 1: Of my life, and who knows, maybe you could have
8:45
Speaker 1: kept going in that direction. Had you returned to a
8:47
Speaker 1: more stable, you know, home in life.
8:49
Speaker 2: When I when I came home, I came home, my
8:52
Speaker 2: parents had moved into a two bedroom apartment, as if
8:56
Speaker 2: my brother and I had went off through the army
8:57
Speaker 2: or something that we weren't coming back home, and so
9:00
Speaker 2: we moved up into this uninsulated attic. Was freezing cold
9:04
Speaker 2: and the winter squorching hot in the summer, and we
9:07
Speaker 2: were pretty much put on notice that we were on
9:09
Speaker 2: our own, beyond our bear necessities, that we would not
9:14
Speaker 2: be provided for. And I was thirteen still when I
9:17
Speaker 2: came home, I think I'm gonna have to start selling marijuana.
9:19
Speaker 3: Weed.
9:20
Speaker 2: I bought two ounces of marijuana and I didn't look back. Man,
9:24
Speaker 2: that was the beginning of the infamy.
9:26
Speaker 1: Yah, what about your brother?
9:29
Speaker 2: My brother had found the means of escape. He met
9:32
Speaker 2: this girl named Paula who lives in the suburbs, and
9:36
Speaker 2: her mother took a liking to my brother and allow
9:38
Speaker 2: him to move in with them. And he was going
9:40
Speaker 2: to school in suburbs. So it's me basically by myself.
9:43
Speaker 2: Now I'm fourteen years old, I'm selling marijuana. I'm so
9:47
Speaker 2: serious about it too, because I figured this is my
9:50
Speaker 2: only way out, and I became very good at that.
9:53
Speaker 2: I had about five or six guys working for me
9:55
Speaker 2: and everything, young guys fourteen thirteen years old, selling real
10:00
Speaker 2: I'm on the street corners and whatnot. And I came
10:02
Speaker 2: home one day and discovered that my stepfather had been
10:05
Speaker 2: up in my room and had found one of my
10:07
Speaker 2: statues of money. I bought me a safe, and not
10:10
Speaker 2: long after that, my stepfather kicked me out. I was
10:13
Speaker 2: fifteen years old and I moved into the projects. This
10:16
Speaker 2: was an apartment where we were selling drugs out of there.
10:20
Speaker 2: And this was around eighty five eighty six, right around
10:24
Speaker 2: the time crack cocaine started trickling into the ghetto. Nobody
10:28
Speaker 2: really knew what it was, how dangerous it was.
10:31
Speaker 1: So at the time it just seemed like an easy
10:33
Speaker 1: way to make money. The profit margins are better than
10:36
Speaker 1: they are with weed, right.
10:37
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, but the danger increases too. And at
10:41
Speaker 2: first everything was cope, said it. I was snorting cocaine
10:45
Speaker 2: by the time I was sixteen. I had a Mercedes
10:47
Speaker 2: Benz Cadillac, driving Porsches, BMW Rolex watches, but around a
10:53
Speaker 2: year or two, about nineteen eighty eight, was like the
10:56
Speaker 2: height of the epidemic, and all the detrimental effects of
10:59
Speaker 2: crack cocaine really started to become clear. The communities were
11:04
Speaker 2: being decimated by this drug, and guys I grew up
11:07
Speaker 2: with were becoming dope fiends, and young women were selling
11:11
Speaker 2: their bodies, and it was just a real horrifying period
11:15
Speaker 2: to live through.
11:16
Speaker 1: As a crack epidemic were on, the community became increasingly desperate,
11:20
Speaker 1: affecting even Keith's childhood friend, Kenyada Collins.
11:24
Speaker 2: You know, he and I grew up together. We used
11:26
Speaker 2: to walk to school together, played basketball together. By the
11:29
Speaker 2: time nineteen eighty eight rolled around, he was, you know,
11:32
Speaker 2: hooked on a crack cocaine pretty significantly and had fell
11:38
Speaker 2: in with a group of guys called stick up kids,
11:40
Speaker 2: you know that used to go around robbing drug deal
11:42
Speaker 2: and so I became one of the targets.
11:45
Speaker 1: And on December second, nineteen eighty eight, Keith was at
11:48
Speaker 1: the apartment that served as the base of his drug
11:50
Speaker 1: operation when Kenyata and the stick Up Kids showed up.
11:54
Speaker 2: Now back in the back bedrooms counting money, and I
11:57
Speaker 2: heard commotion in the front. I come to the front
11:59
Speaker 2: of the door and guys were forcing their way into
12:02
Speaker 2: the apartment. You know, I had the gun in my hand.
12:04
Speaker 2: I was shot twice, myself in the legs, you know.
12:08
Speaker 2: I shot a king out of twice as he came
12:11
Speaker 2: through the door. I woke up in the hospital and
12:13
Speaker 2: I was right next to the king out of college.
12:15
Speaker 2: I heard the doctors when they pronounced him then said no,
12:19
Speaker 2: he's not gonna he's not going to make it. And
12:22
Speaker 2: you know, I woke up again and I was changed
12:25
Speaker 2: to hospital big, you know. And so it was gradually
12:28
Speaker 2: that it began to dine on me the magnitude or
12:31
Speaker 2: normalcy of what had occurred. Even once I was able
12:34
Speaker 2: to walk again, I went to the county jail and
12:37
Speaker 2: I bombed out. Got an attorney.
12:39
Speaker 1: I mean, this is not a legal opinion, but your
12:42
Speaker 1: actions in this incident sure sound like self defense and
12:46
Speaker 1: the purest sense of the word.
12:47
Speaker 2: But I didn't have access to the old self defense
12:50
Speaker 2: now because I was selling drugs. My hands weren't playing right.
12:53
Speaker 1: So what was your attorney's plan.
12:55
Speaker 2: This attorney was a friend of a family, and I
12:58
Speaker 2: gave him like ten thousand cash. I gave him a
13:01
Speaker 2: Mercedes Benz And nineteen eighty three is savy cavalier. So
13:06
Speaker 2: I gave him two cars in cash to represent me,
13:08
Speaker 2: and he came to me on the evil trial with
13:12
Speaker 2: this scear tactic and told me, you know that they
13:14
Speaker 2: were going to try to put me on death row.
13:16
Speaker 2: And I was eighteen nineteen years old at the time,
13:18
Speaker 2: and since I was so ignorant out the law, I
13:21
Speaker 2: didn't know how to hold some to account, and I
13:25
Speaker 2: played guilty. You know, he convinced me that that was
13:29
Speaker 2: in my benefit to do that, and I didn't find
13:31
Speaker 2: out a letter on that he himself was strung out
13:34
Speaker 2: on cocaine at the time.
13:36
Speaker 1: It's not ironic enough that you ended up giving the
13:39
Speaker 1: proceeds of your successful drug operation to an attorney who
13:44
Speaker 1: was one of the consumers of those same drugs, who
13:46
Speaker 1: then ended up selling you more or less down the river.
13:49
Speaker 2: You know. The thing that I didn't know that I
13:51
Speaker 2: know now that they elevate could climb in order to
13:55
Speaker 2: entice you to take in the deal. I played guilty
13:58
Speaker 2: to murder. It really should have been mass you know,
14:00
Speaker 2: out in the state of defending myself, no four thought
14:05
Speaker 2: of malice or anything when in two it's oba's manslaughter.
14:08
Speaker 2: But I topped out to murder. It gave me eighteen
14:11
Speaker 2: years of life in that and I remember to just saying,
14:13
Speaker 2: you know, don't worry about his son. It's it's only
14:16
Speaker 2: twelve years six months to the pro boy, you know.
14:19
Speaker 2: And I was nineteen at the time. But of course
14:23
Speaker 2: he didn't tell me about the danger I was waiting into.
14:39
Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Ohio Justice and
14:41
Speaker 1: Policy Center, a nonprofit law firm that seeks justice for
14:45
Speaker 1: people directly impacted by Ohio's criminal legal system. OJPC provides
14:50
Speaker 1: free legal services to currently and formally incarcerated people. Through
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Speaker 1: it's Beyond Guilt Project, OJPC works to free over punish
14:58
Speaker 1: people who have rehabilitated themselve else. Ojpc's Second Chance clinics
15:03
Speaker 1: help individuals with criminal records remove barriers to employment and
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Speaker 1: house it. Ojpc's Human Rights in Prison Project represents people
15:11
Speaker 1: who face denial of medical care. In its twenty five
15:14
Speaker 1: year history, OJPC has worked at the policy level and
15:17
Speaker 1: won numerous victories in Ohio, including ending juvenile life with
15:21
Speaker 1: that Parole and exempting seriously mentally ill people from the
15:25
Speaker 1: death penalty. To learn more about Ohio Justice and Policy
15:28
Speaker 1: Center and how you can support its mission visit OHIOJPC
15:32
Speaker 1: dot org. That's OHIOJPC dot org, Ohio Justice and Policy Center.
15:40
Speaker 1: We don't write people off.
15:49
Speaker 2: They said, meet at Lebanon, Ohio's first I lived in
15:55
Speaker 2: counter of racism that I have. You know, the in
15:57
Speaker 2: word You heard it constantly around the clock in where
16:01
Speaker 2: there is in word, And I'm talking about by staff,
16:04
Speaker 2: not just by the prisoners. And it was predominantly white
16:08
Speaker 2: guards and predominantly white prisoners down in this place. You know,
16:12
Speaker 2: Black people from Inner City were the minority, and everybody
16:16
Speaker 2: was hopped up on these weights, the steroids. And after
16:20
Speaker 2: hearing all these war stories and young guys like me
16:22
Speaker 2: being raped, you know, I kind of fixed my mind
16:25
Speaker 2: that that wouldn't happen to me. Now, I didn't know
16:28
Speaker 2: how I would prevent that from happening to me.
16:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand that it's not uncommon for people to
16:34
Speaker 1: join a prison gang for protection.
16:36
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was three gangs, the Black Age Disciples sending
16:39
Speaker 2: Muslims although they don't consider themselves a gang, and the
16:42
Speaker 2: Aaron Brotherhoods, three major factions that kind of control the resources,
16:47
Speaker 2: the media resources inside the prison. Since we were down
16:50
Speaker 2: in southern Ohio, the Aaron Brotherhood were being armed by
16:53
Speaker 2: the guards who worked there, some of whom were in
16:56
Speaker 2: the Aaron Brotherhood. They had swashackles on their necks and
17:00
Speaker 2: all of this, and brotherhood they had real nice not
17:03
Speaker 2: the makeshift nine the shanks that you see on television,
17:06
Speaker 2: all kinds of things that were being brought in by
17:09
Speaker 2: the guards.
17:10
Speaker 1: But you didn't join the Sunni Muslims or the Black
17:12
Speaker 1: Gangster Disciples, right, Oh.
17:14
Speaker 2: You presume I wasn't in the area and brotherhood but forgot.
17:17
Speaker 1: How rude of me? Not that I mean, I'm sure
17:21
Speaker 1: their invite got lost somehow.
17:24
Speaker 2: I never got an invite. But the first thing I
17:26
Speaker 2: did when I came to Leven I joined the boxing team.
17:29
Speaker 2: That was, you know, one of the best things I
17:32
Speaker 2: could have done. You know, once twice a year you
17:34
Speaker 2: have a boxing match in front of the whole prison.
17:37
Speaker 2: You can show everybody what you made of and people
17:40
Speaker 2: can perform the opinion after that as to whether or
17:43
Speaker 2: not you are an easy game or whatever. You know.
17:46
Speaker 2: But I got my GDD and then they rolling into
17:49
Speaker 2: the college program. So I was on the trajectory in
17:52
Speaker 2: terms of preparing myself for this this parole.
17:55
Speaker 1: Date and staying out of a prison gang was part
17:57
Speaker 1: of that plan, which continued after was transferred from Lebanon
18:01
Speaker 1: to Lucasville in nineteen ninety one, which was arguably a
18:04
Speaker 1: more difficult and violent situation because of a truly tragic
18:09
Speaker 1: incident involving an adult education teacher who worked at the prison.
18:13
Speaker 2: Beverly Taylor was a name, and she was murdered by
18:16
Speaker 2: a black prisoner for nineteen ninety calls for the guy
18:21
Speaker 2: to be executed or being put forth by the community,
18:25
Speaker 2: but the guy was mentally handicapped and was deemed ineligible
18:28
Speaker 2: for the death journality, so they didn't get what they wanted,
18:31
Speaker 2: and so ultimately a new warden was appointed, a guy
18:34
Speaker 2: they author take I think around ninety ninety one. And
18:38
Speaker 2: so after Kate instituted this thing called Operations Shakedown, and
18:43
Speaker 2: he started kind of turning the grooves, tightening up on everything.
18:46
Speaker 2: You know, you have to have your shirt tucked in
18:48
Speaker 2: at all times. She got to walk on the right
18:51
Speaker 2: side of the hallway. It was more or less like
18:54
Speaker 2: a military camp down, you know, something that happened overnight.
18:58
Speaker 2: He set up this po box. He wanted to drop
19:01
Speaker 2: the dime on somebody who wanted to become a snisch.
19:03
Speaker 2: You just put in an anonymous note in the mailbox
19:06
Speaker 2: on your way to chow and he would act on it.
19:10
Speaker 2: So it was a very contentious environment, all the various
19:14
Speaker 2: factions for being pitted against each other, and you can
19:18
Speaker 2: kind of cut the tension with it nice.
19:20
Speaker 1: And there was one incident in particular that kind of
19:23
Speaker 1: pushed the whole thing over the edge.
19:25
Speaker 2: They came up with this berclosis test and apparently had
19:30
Speaker 2: an alcoholic ssson called Feno that the Muslims are stringously
19:34
Speaker 2: objected to, and the warden Tate gave him also amazing,
19:37
Speaker 2: you either take the tests or we're going to make
19:40
Speaker 2: you take it.
19:41
Speaker 1: You know.
19:41
Speaker 2: They took advantage of the two days that they had
19:43
Speaker 2: been given to formulate this plan, you know, April eleventh
19:46
Speaker 2: they carried it out.
19:48
Speaker 1: So April eleventh, nineteen ninety three was Easter Sunday and
19:51
Speaker 1: Warden Tate planned unforcibly injecting the Sunni Muslim population on Monday,
19:55
Speaker 1: April twelfth. So the Sunies devised a plan control of
20:00
Speaker 1: an entire cell block by taking advantage of the skeleton
20:03
Speaker 1: crew that worked on the holidays. When the staff of
20:06
Speaker 1: prison guards would go from around one hundred and thirty
20:08
Speaker 1: strong down to only eighty. Now to give you a
20:11
Speaker 1: lay of the land, Lucasville Prison sprawled out in four
20:15
Speaker 1: directions like a wheel with four spokes. One spoken compass, maintenance,
20:19
Speaker 1: the hospital and dining hall. Walking from there toward the center,
20:23
Speaker 1: you'd meet up with the other three spokes. J Block
20:26
Speaker 1: to the right, Kate to the left, and L block
20:29
Speaker 1: straight ahead. Now, K and L both consisted of a
20:32
Speaker 1: long hallway with a jim at the end and eight
20:34
Speaker 1: wings to the sides, L one, L two, and so on.
20:39
Speaker 1: Keith lived in L six. It was about three pm
20:42
Speaker 1: when Keith and the other prisoners were in the yard
20:45
Speaker 1: between K and L block when the Sunni Muslims saw
20:48
Speaker 1: their chance and struck.
20:50
Speaker 2: Recreation was just about to end. They called over to
20:53
Speaker 2: intercomm ten minute warning for everybody to start lining up
20:57
Speaker 2: to come back inside the prison. And while we were
20:59
Speaker 2: standing in line, and a guard ran out with blood
21:02
Speaker 2: streaming down his space, and he was followed by masks
21:05
Speaker 2: and make caring the night stick and saying we're taking over,
21:07
Speaker 2: We're taking over. You know, I'll never forget it. It
21:10
Speaker 2: was so real because you immediately know Oh shit, this
21:13
Speaker 2: is serious. You know whoever this person is with this
21:16
Speaker 2: mask and they gonna kill him because you can't see
21:19
Speaker 2: insign You don't know that it's the whole semi Muslim organization.
21:23
Speaker 2: I didn't know that's then earned sidewalk and it was
21:26
Speaker 2: just around thirty minutes or so that took over the
21:29
Speaker 2: whole L side of.
21:30
Speaker 1: The prison and they later barricaded themselves into L Block
21:34
Speaker 1: and held it for eleven days. But at this point
21:36
Speaker 1: Keith was still out on the yard and had no
21:39
Speaker 1: idea what was going on or what was to come.
21:42
Speaker 2: News started to circle out that they were, you know,
21:45
Speaker 2: ramsacking the cells and everything. What was actually happened, They
21:49
Speaker 2: was going from sale to sale, accumulating food, telling people
21:52
Speaker 2: that they had to donate whatever food stuff that they
21:55
Speaker 2: had so they can administer it during the ensuing days.
22:00
Speaker 2: That reached us on the yard was that they was
22:02
Speaker 2: robbing the seals, and so I wanted to go in
22:05
Speaker 2: and secure my property. But I didn't know it was
22:07
Speaker 2: a life of death situation. I thought it was just
22:10
Speaker 2: a situation where some guys that got a hold of
22:12
Speaker 2: some keys and non sales were being rummish through and
22:15
Speaker 2: so it was with that misinformation that I, I guess
22:18
Speaker 2: my better judgment, decided to go inside and check on
22:21
Speaker 2: my personal belongings.
22:23
Speaker 1: And this decision to go inside L block was how
22:26
Speaker 1: eventually Keith's name got dragged into what happened on L sex.
22:32
Speaker 2: When I went in, I kind of immediately understood that,
22:35
Speaker 2: you know, this is something more involved than just one
22:38
Speaker 2: prisoner attacking the guard, because they were breaking windows, fire
22:42
Speaker 2: alarms was going off. I mean, it was pandemonium, and
22:45
Speaker 2: you know, I made my way to my I signed
22:47
Speaker 2: the sale block L six, and contrast to the chaos
22:52
Speaker 2: that was going on in the corridors, it was very
22:54
Speaker 2: very quiet. You know, guards were already locked into the
22:57
Speaker 2: shower stalls, and there was different prisoners inside of the
23:00
Speaker 2: seals who I later learned were hostages, but I didn't
23:04
Speaker 2: know that at the time I came in, and not
23:06
Speaker 2: really understand I ran down to my sale and there
23:08
Speaker 2: was a person inside of my cell, and so instinctively
23:11
Speaker 2: I ran up to the control panel trying to unlock
23:14
Speaker 2: my door so I can get this person out of
23:16
Speaker 2: my cell, because as far as I was serned, that confirmed,
23:18
Speaker 2: but I already kind of figured that somebody was rifling
23:21
Speaker 2: through my things, but you know he was a hostage.
23:24
Speaker 2: I went up to the control panel and was turning
23:26
Speaker 2: the knobs randomly, you know, not really understanding how to
23:29
Speaker 2: work the panel, and opened up a few other doors invertedly,
23:33
Speaker 2: and you know that alerted to someding Mostlims who were
23:36
Speaker 2: inside the part, and they accostant me and told me,
23:38
Speaker 2: you know know on certain terms that you know this
23:40
Speaker 2: is what's going on. You the Willers, or you get
23:43
Speaker 2: the fuck out of here. And you know, I chose
23:45
Speaker 2: to leave. I left and came back out into the yard.
23:48
Speaker 1: Keith was ultimately accused of killing four men during his
23:51
Speaker 1: short trip inside of all block. The hostages being held
23:53
Speaker 1: on L six who, according to the state, or snitches.
23:57
Speaker 1: At this point, I want to bring in one of
23:59
Speaker 1: the attorneys representing Keith. He's an associate at Bell doc
24:02
Speaker 1: Lebine and Hoffman. Keegan Stephan. Welcome to the show. Thank
24:06
Speaker 1: you so, Keegan. The state's narrative of what happened on
24:08
Speaker 1: that awful easter Sunday in nineteen ninety three obviously diverges
24:12
Speaker 1: from Keith's version of events, but let's start with where
24:15
Speaker 1: they are the same.
24:17
Speaker 3: You know, Keith was not in L six when the
24:19
Speaker 3: riot started, even by the states theory and narrative of events. Second,
24:24
Speaker 3: you know, this riot was very deliberately planned by a
24:28
Speaker 3: group of people that Keith was not a part of.
24:30
Speaker 3: And again the state concedes that, which seems like a
24:33
Speaker 3: very important point.
24:35
Speaker 1: Right, But now the state disagrees with what we've already
24:38
Speaker 1: heard from Keith.
24:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's where their story is diverge. Keith goes
24:42
Speaker 3: in to get his belongings and leaves. That is what
24:45
Speaker 3: numerous alibi witnesses say. The state says that he goes
24:48
Speaker 3: in and then forms a death squad and executes the
24:52
Speaker 3: people that have been locked in their cells.
24:55
Speaker 1: And this death squad was allegedly made up of Keith
24:58
Speaker 1: and four or five others who brutally four alleged snitches
25:01
Speaker 1: that were being held hostage on L six, Darryl Depina,
25:05
Speaker 1: Albert Steano, William Spetty, and Bruce Vitali. But what did
25:10
Speaker 1: they say was Keith's motivation for this?
25:13
Speaker 3: The state says that it's effectively a bargaining chip that
25:15
Speaker 3: if he forms this death squad and executes these alleged snitches,
25:21
Speaker 3: then he can get out of L six. He can leave.
25:24
Speaker 3: You know, people who staged the uprising have said that
25:28
Speaker 3: Keith would not have had that power, that they wouldn't
25:30
Speaker 3: have let that happen, that this wouldn't have been a
25:32
Speaker 3: bargaining chip to let people leave. So it's inconsistent with
25:35
Speaker 3: what was going on in the prison, and it's inconsistent
25:37
Speaker 3: with what Keith was doing. It's inconsistent with numerous alibi witnesses.
25:41
Speaker 3: It's only consistent with the stories of the people who
25:44
Speaker 3: testified against Keith, who were obviously highly motivated to testify
25:48
Speaker 3: in that manner.
25:49
Speaker 1: And later on we'll get into the testimonies of those
25:51
Speaker 1: receiving either leniency, shorter sentences, immunity, a transfer, or most
25:56
Speaker 1: of the above. But first let's get back to this
26:00
Speaker 1: story from Keith's perspective, from when he returned to the
26:02
Speaker 1: yard and the prison was in full crisis and chaos mode.
26:07
Speaker 2: I mean, helicopters were flying up above over the prison.
26:11
Speaker 2: And then gradually the National Guards showed up, the Ohio
26:15
Speaker 2: State Patrol showed up, and they took up stands around
26:18
Speaker 2: outside the perimeter fence, had they you know, machine guns
26:22
Speaker 2: out and riot here, the riot helmets and everything, and
26:26
Speaker 2: so we're thinking this is the amount of time before
26:29
Speaker 2: they regained order, and an hour go by, two hours
26:32
Speaker 2: to go by, and then the body started coming out.
26:35
Speaker 2: You know, a group of mass inmates would come out
26:38
Speaker 2: of the building, waved and what it does like to
26:40
Speaker 2: be ad a machete and it was surreal. Then they
26:43
Speaker 2: had the body on the yard ten fifteen minutes to
26:46
Speaker 2: go by, and someone for an administration medica whatever come
26:51
Speaker 2: and retreew the body and take it back through the
26:53
Speaker 2: k side area thirty minutes to go by. Another body,
26:57
Speaker 2: then another body the body. Then they started getting dark outside,
27:03
Speaker 2: started getting cold, and then eventually got started setting bombs fires,
27:08
Speaker 2: you know, out from the wood from the boxing rings.
27:10
Speaker 2: And you had to understand, you know, the boxing rink
27:12
Speaker 2: was my thanks Agarently this was the place where I
27:14
Speaker 2: went to to kind of you know, make peace with
27:16
Speaker 2: all the bullshit that I've been throughing my life. You know,
27:20
Speaker 2: I'm tearing a waxing ring up, trying to get full
27:22
Speaker 2: so I can start a fire because it's chilly April
27:25
Speaker 2: for the silly at nighttime. So if we're standing around
27:29
Speaker 2: the fires and everything and all, why this is happening.
27:32
Speaker 2: The highway controls and National Guards is standing there watching by.
27:37
Speaker 2: Now I don't know, five or six bodies have been
27:39
Speaker 2: brought out to the yard, most of them dead. The
27:42
Speaker 2: people whose job it is to stop me from being
27:45
Speaker 2: one of those dead bodies are standing on the outside
27:47
Speaker 2: of the fence. And it's inaveud that you take in
27:50
Speaker 2: the notion that shit one of these bodies could be mine.
28:10
Speaker 2: Around three o'clock in the morning, how a waste state
28:12
Speaker 2: patrol came out gun strong and ordered all of us
28:16
Speaker 2: to line up to indicase had gymnasium. And once we
28:19
Speaker 2: got inside of there, they stripped all of us naked,
28:22
Speaker 2: took all our clothes and made us sit down in
28:24
Speaker 2: the middle of over the gymnasium floor, about four hundred
28:28
Speaker 2: people or so. And we stayed there like that and
28:30
Speaker 2: in total start nakedness four hours the same life. Eventually
28:36
Speaker 2: they started taking this random groups of teen and escorting
28:39
Speaker 2: us to these singleman's sales, and they put ten neked
28:42
Speaker 2: individuals in these cells the size of a closet. My
28:46
Speaker 2: recollection is right, I'm in K two thirty six or
28:48
Speaker 2: nine other megan individuals.
28:50
Speaker 3: And in that cell the fifth murder happened. And the
28:55
Speaker 3: state says that Keith's ordered at the murder. You know,
28:58
Speaker 3: Keith says that there was a confrontation and that he
29:01
Speaker 3: had nothing to do.
29:01
Speaker 2: With it when they finally came around and gave us jumpsuits,
29:04
Speaker 2: and that long after that threw sandwiches in the sale,
29:07
Speaker 2: which is the first time Minihim has that eating since
29:09
Speaker 2: the whole old deal started. There was like a feeding frenzy.
29:12
Speaker 2: Some guys took more than his share. And Dennis Weaver,
29:16
Speaker 2: he was one of the older prisoners in the cell,
29:18
Speaker 2: and he, you know, held onto his dignity to his
29:21
Speaker 2: credit and was hues the candra joined afraid. He made
29:26
Speaker 2: the mistake of saying something about it to this guy,
29:29
Speaker 2: William Bowland, guy named Sabbat, and Sebas and Dinners got
29:33
Speaker 2: into altercation. Sebas put him in a choke hold, and
29:37
Speaker 2: these two other prisoners held his feet down, you know,
29:40
Speaker 2: because he was struggling trying to free himself. And when
29:43
Speaker 2: the authorities came to remove Dinners from the cell and
29:46
Speaker 2: tried to question us, I along with most of the
29:49
Speaker 2: guys in the celle, said that we were asleep, which
29:52
Speaker 2: was our way saying that we didn't want to be involved,
29:54
Speaker 2: because that's one of the things you learned in prison
29:56
Speaker 2: to avoid violence by minding your own busines this and
30:00
Speaker 2: we don't know at the time that why not saying anything,
30:03
Speaker 2: we allowed the guy who actually committed the murder to
30:06
Speaker 2: shift the blame. You know, he said he was forced
30:09
Speaker 2: to kill Dennis by me and several other individuals.
30:12
Speaker 3: You know, it's a pretty wild leap to go from
30:15
Speaker 3: someone not telling you the complete truth, from someone saying
30:18
Speaker 3: that they were asleep, to saying that they ordered a murder.
30:22
Speaker 1: It's also obviously hard or impossible to order a murder
30:26
Speaker 1: when you don't have a weapon or the cloud of
30:28
Speaker 1: a prison gang behind you. But that's what the state
30:31
Speaker 1: and its cooperators ended up saying Keith did. Once the
30:33
Speaker 1: riot thus settled and many rounds of interviews began, But
30:37
Speaker 1: that didn't start until Wednesday, April twenty first, and Dennis
30:39
Speaker 1: Weaver's body had only joined the others from L Block
30:42
Speaker 1: on the second day of the Lucasville riot April twelfth,
30:44
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. At this point, the instigators of the
30:48
Speaker 1: riot were barricaded into L Block, armed with the prison's
30:50
Speaker 1: hostage negotiation handbook and eight hostages, making demands while anticipating
30:55
Speaker 1: the authority's moves. On Wednesday, April fourteenth, a sheet was
30:59
Speaker 1: hung from a window threatening the death of a hostage
31:02
Speaker 1: if their demands were not met. Among those demands were food, water, electricity,
31:07
Speaker 1: access to the news media, a stipulation regarding any future
31:10
Speaker 1: medical testing, the hiring of more blackguards, the relaxation of
31:14
Speaker 1: day to day restrictions, and various quality of life improvements,
31:17
Speaker 1: as well as the removal of Arthur Tate. Now. Early
31:21
Speaker 1: Thursday morning, April fifteenth, the body of one of the hostages,
31:25
Speaker 1: forty year old prison guard Robert Fulandingham, was produced from
31:28
Speaker 1: L Block. He had been strangled to death. The negotiations continued,
31:33
Speaker 1: a few hostages were released, and finally, on Wednesday, April
31:37
Speaker 1: twenty first, a list of twenty one demands were met
31:40
Speaker 1: to solidify the surrender of L Block. These included that
31:45
Speaker 1: news media and religious leaders would witness the surrender, that
31:48
Speaker 1: there would be no retaliation on any inmate or group
31:50
Speaker 1: of inmates, and that discipline or criminal proceedings would be
31:54
Speaker 1: carried out fairly and impartially. In the end, ten men
31:57
Speaker 1: had died, earl Elder Franklin Farrell, Bruce Harris, David Summers,
32:02
Speaker 1: Darryl de Pino, Bruce Vittali, Albert Seiano, William Sveetti, Dennis Weaver,
32:07
Speaker 1: and of course the prison guard Robert for Landingham.
32:11
Speaker 2: And so the guard's murder is really drove the prosecution.
32:15
Speaker 2: The riot was desided over awesomeately by the Black Against Disciples,
32:20
Speaker 2: the Sonny Muslims in the Brotherhood. The goal was to
32:24
Speaker 2: put their leadership on death row. Well, Aaron brother here
32:28
Speaker 2: is represented on death row. The Sunny Muslims I represented
32:31
Speaker 2: here on death row. The only people who are not
32:33
Speaker 2: represented here on death row in some Black Anster Disciples.
32:37
Speaker 2: Guess where there they were at now walk in the
32:39
Speaker 2: street because they testified against the leadership of these other games.
32:43
Speaker 2: And I'm the fill in for the Black Anst Disciples.
32:46
Speaker 2: Never been in the game, but I had a prior
32:49
Speaker 2: record for murder. I was inside of the L six
32:52
Speaker 2: pod when I came in for that brief time. I
32:55
Speaker 2: wasn't wearing a mask. People identified me, said Keith and
32:58
Speaker 2: Marbs inside the pot. They pulled my record. Recently when
33:01
Speaker 2: we did for your request, we found out that the
33:04
Speaker 2: prosecutor had written his name on my flow like this
33:07
Speaker 2: is significant. This is somebody who we can use. I
33:11
Speaker 2: was dropped out of school in fifth grade, shoplifting when
33:14
Speaker 2: I was thirteen, fourteen years old, seven weed, and these
33:17
Speaker 2: are the things that the state tried to use the
33:20
Speaker 2: celeris to get me to cop out of crimes that
33:22
Speaker 2: didn't admit.
33:23
Speaker 1: But the state had to come up with witnesses to
33:25
Speaker 1: corroborate this narrative.
33:27
Speaker 3: It's remarkable the number of interviews that took place and
33:30
Speaker 3: the number of times the same incarcerated people were interviewed,
33:34
Speaker 3: and how much their stories changed. Most of them did
33:38
Speaker 3: not identify Keith in their early interviews and even affirmatively
33:41
Speaker 3: said that Keith was not involved. And then at a
33:44
Speaker 3: certain point in that arc of giving statements, they all
33:47
Speaker 3: started identifying Keith. Something shifted there and he became a
33:51
Speaker 3: very easy scapegoat. He was already facing a sentence that maxed.
33:54
Speaker 1: Out at life.
33:55
Speaker 3: Everybody sort of thought he would take the plea But
33:58
Speaker 3: as everyone who's talked to Keith knows, here a remarkable
34:00
Speaker 3: individual of the utmost principles, and he was not going
34:03
Speaker 3: to plead guilty to a bunch of murders. He did
34:05
Speaker 3: not commit.
34:06
Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that you don't see
34:08
Speaker 2: on Law and Order and those different police shows on televisions,
34:11
Speaker 2: and you know it's real and formal environment. They call
34:15
Speaker 2: you by your first name, and you know, like your
34:18
Speaker 2: old buddies like Keith m On, we would pass that
34:21
Speaker 2: we're going an agy to come out to this and
34:23
Speaker 2: a you mean yourself a favor, Otherwise I'm going to
34:26
Speaker 2: put your black ass on death row, cop out to
34:30
Speaker 2: murder and running time concurrent with the time you're already doing,
34:33
Speaker 2: to be like you're getting off Scott free. I said,
34:36
Speaker 2: but I'm innocent, though I'm not getting off Scott free
34:39
Speaker 2: when you're talking about prolonger mustay in prison beyond my
34:42
Speaker 2: parole day and I haven't done anything.
34:46
Speaker 1: You've just heard about how a riot and a rush
34:49
Speaker 1: to feed a community's sense of vengeance put Keith Lamar
34:52
Speaker 1: in a position where his past was leveraged against him
34:55
Speaker 1: in service of those who chose to escape their crimes
34:59
Speaker 1: by coopera with the state. Listen to Part two, where
35:02
Speaker 1: we'll explore who those individuals were, what they stood to
35:06
Speaker 1: gain by Sandy Keith a death row and the sham
35:09
Speaker 1: trial that put him there, as well as where we're
35:11
Speaker 1: at in his fight for justice and his very life.
35:14
Speaker 1: Find and listen to the second half of this very
35:16
Speaker 1: important episode available now if you're an Apple Plus subscriber,
35:20
Speaker 1: or you can listen next week in the free feed.
35:29
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen
35:31
Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one
35:34
Speaker 1: week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on
35:37
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor Hall,
35:41
Speaker 1: Andy Chelsea, and Lyla Robinson, as well as my fellow
35:43
Speaker 1: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Awardis, and Jeff Clibern. The
35:47
Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR
35:50
Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across
35:53
Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at
35:56
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at
36:00
Speaker 1: It's Jason Vlahm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava
36:03
Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one