Latest / The Wholeness Network / 236. Surviving Cancer Twice: I Couldn't Ring the Bell with Lori Sill

Transcript

236. Surviving Cancer Twice: I Couldn't Ring the Bell with Lori Sill · The Wholeness Network

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Wholeness Network, a space for people who
• 0:04
  are done performing wellness and ready to actually feel it.
• 0:08
  I'm Michelle Wingel, and every episode, we're going deep into healing, identity,
• 0:14
  the spiritual stuff nobody talks about, and what it really
• 0:17
  means to come home to yourself. So let's go. I
• 0:25
  can't wait to share Lori with you.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Lori is.
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  Speaker 1: Has been my bestie for over a decade plus, and
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  she's been a support. She showed up to all of
• 0:39
  our events and helped, and I just don't know what
• 0:42
  I would do without her in my life. She has
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  been a savior to me over and over again. You'll
• 0:50
  hear in this conversation two friends talking for a long
• 0:54
  time about our lives about what we've been through, about
• 0:59
  what she has been through. And I know that you
• 1:02
  will be inspired by her and her ability to allow
• 1:09
  life to show up in whatever ways it does, whether
• 1:14
  that's cancer, whether that's divorce, whether that's infertility. She doesn't
• 1:21
  pretend like it doesn't hurt. She doesn't ignore things that
• 1:27
  are wrong or people that have treated her wrongly. But
• 1:31
  she meets with bravery and courage the things that show
• 1:37
  up in her life. And I hope if you have
• 1:41
  had struggles in your marriage, maybe with some emotional abuse,
• 1:45
  you will hear from her the truth about that situation.
• 1:51
  If you've been through cancer, she's done it twice. And
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  allows all the feels that come with that diagnosis. More
• 2:01
  than anything, I hope that you will feel her genuineness,
• 2:04
  her authenticity, her deep heart. And I know you'll love
• 2:10
  her as much as I do. As always, please leave
• 2:13
  a review, a good one, and go to the Wholeness
• 2:17
  Library where you can watch all of the video versions
• 2:20
  of our podcasts. And also, there's a phone number in
• 2:25
  the show notes. call and leave a message, ask a question,
• 2:29
  give us an idea for a show. We'd love to
• 2:33
  hear from you. So without further ado, Lori Sill, one
• 2:38
  of the best women you'll ever meet. I could not
• 2:42
  imagine doing this with anyone else. It's a podcast called
• 2:45
  Wild Card. You can see it on YouTube or it's
• 2:49
  anywhere on the podcasts. And she uses a deck of
• 2:51
  cards to kind of make the conversation happen. And I
• 2:55
  love it so much that I was like, I want
• 2:57
  to do that. And this is a way I can
• 3:00
  bring on some of our experts again, our guides again,
• 3:04
  so that we can have them all more often. Because
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  it's one thing to talk about yourself over and over again,
• 3:10
  but this way is how this works. So I'm really excited.
• 3:13
  I can't imagine doing it with anyone else. And also just,
• 3:19
  I was thinking about it today. I'm like, you know,
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  I really feel like I– I'll totally cry. Like I
• 3:27
  totally feel like I hold our relationship so tender that
• 3:33
  I'm going to use it all up. And it's going
• 3:36
  to wear out. And so I realize it's like– It's
• 3:39
  about time that we've been– I've had you on the podcast.
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  But I realize it's just been like this secret special
• 3:46
  thing that I've been waiting around for that moment. And
• 3:50
  then I thought, you know, I don't know why I
• 3:51
  had to do that. But it's true. You're so tender
• 3:56
  in my life that I just, I never want to
• 3:58
  take it for granted.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I feel the exact same way. Like, I don't know
• 4:04
  if you and Monty will ever understand the impact you
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  guys have been on mine and my children's life. Like,
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  my kids will say they saved us. Like, all the time.
• 4:18
  They saved us, Mom. And I'm, like, they know that. Like,
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  it's just, yeah.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: And, and like, I hear you say that and I'll
• 4:27
  never feel like I, I, I feel indented. I feel
• 4:31
  just indented to you for the time period that you
• 4:34
  were there for me in my life. And, and so
• 4:36
  we're going to talk about that a little bit, but, um,
• 4:40
  you know, let's talk about, you know, how we met.
• 4:44
  So it's been a minute and we kind of met two,
• 4:50
  two times.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I'll let you tell the story. While I take a drink.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: All right. So which, like.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: So we were born. We were born. Were you born
• 4:59
  in Ogden? Were you born in Ogden?
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  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: We're born in the same, raised in the same town. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: And you were one year younger than me. Down the
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  street from each other. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Down the street from each other.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Down the street from each other. Literally.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. But like different worlds because we were in different
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  like stakes with church. Yeah. So like. Yep.
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  Speaker 1: And grades.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: And you had an older sister. But I knew who
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  you were.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I knew who you were.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew who you were. Yep. And then I
• 5:25
  remember when we moved into Robert's Farms and, like, at church,
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  and you were in the Relief Society presidency. Uh-huh. And
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  I remember, like, you had on a pencil skirt. I don't... Like,
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  I just... It was a navy... I swear it was
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  navy or black pencil skirt. And I just remember, oh, yeah, like... Yep. Just...
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  But we didn't really hang out for a few years.
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  Speaker 1: Right, right.
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  Speaker 2: But then we went to girls camp.
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  Speaker 1: Then we went on a hike. I was telling Emily,
• 5:57
  my daughter-in-law, this the other day because they went and
• 5:59
  did Adams Canyon. And I said, oh, let me tell
• 6:01
  you a story. I said, if it wasn't for Adams Canyon,
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  me and Lori wouldn't be as close as we were.
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  And so I said, because she's like wanting to be
• 6:13
  all excited about hiking. And all of a sudden it
• 6:15
  occurred to me. I said, let me tell you. Because
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  Adams Canyon was so close, that was hiking to me.
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  So hiking means hurt and pain.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and crappy switchbacks.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Like the switchbacks on the sand.
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  Speaker 1: If I had just had a trail where it was
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  like that was hiking to me, my whole world would
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  be different. But Adams Canyon was hiking.
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  Speaker 2: You go hiking, you go to Adams Canyon, and it's
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  a pain in the butt.
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  Speaker 1: It is. You are sore, and you hurt, and you
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  regret it. And there's a pretty waterfall up at the top.
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  And I don't know if it's worth it.
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  Speaker 2: It's not worth it.
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  Speaker 1: Nope, not worth it.
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  Speaker 2: Not worth it. I think as an adult, I've done
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  that hike maybe four times.
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  Speaker 1: Me too.
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  Speaker 2: At the most. At the very most. And because I
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  had to. Yes. With young women. Yes. It's not because
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  I wanted to. I've never been like, let's go hike
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  Adams King. No.
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  Speaker 1: Yep.
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  Speaker 2: No, never.
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  Speaker 1: So we were... in charge of all the teenage girls.
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  And so we needed to go on this hike and, and, um,
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  you were having, um, you were having your foot pain.
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  I think you were having plantar fasciitis or something.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I had plantar fasciitis.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: And so it was, it was difficult. And so I'm like,
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  I'll just stay back with you. So we had like
• 7:36
  an hour to just sit on the trail and I
• 7:38
  was perfectly fine sitting there and, and chatting and, and,
• 7:44
  I think it was pretty close after that, that we're like, let's,
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  why don't we grab like our drink? This was, this
• 7:50
  is our drinks. Like it's, you know, the gas station
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  and grab a drink. And in fact, one of the
• 7:57
  phones or what I got, one of the, there was
• 8:00
  a new update on the iPhone and you could type
• 8:03
  in shortcuts, you know, to text. And I mean, I
• 8:06
  have it on my watch just right now. It's still there.
• 8:10
  If I, that I can just say, I can't remember
• 8:13
  what I have to say, but it was like... And
• 8:16
  it would say, want to grab a drink?
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  Speaker 2: Want to grab a drink? Yeah.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one of the shortcuts.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: I need out. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, drink, I think, was even... It was just like, hey,
• 8:27
  and we'd come... One of us would come pick the
• 8:30
  other one up, and we'd go to the gas station
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  to buy a $ 1. 50 drink, and it was the best
• 8:37
  medicine for that time.
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  Speaker 2: It was.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: For that time. It was.
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  Speaker 2: Like, it... Yeah, it was like it was all those
• 8:46
  changes with like because Hazel had just gone to kindergarten.
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  My girls were in preschool. And I remember not wanting
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  them to do Chinese immersion because I didn't want them
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  to be gone for three fourths of the day and stuff.
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  And so then when they went to first kindergarten and
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  Hazel went to first grade and it was like, we're
• 9:07
  no longer the moms who go to the park. Right.
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  Like I'm no longer the mom of littles. I don't
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  go to the park. I don't, I mean, it was
• 9:14
  just this like, wait, everything's changed.
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  Speaker 1: It sneaks up on you too.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was hard.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Like it was hard, but it was so, oh my goodness.
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  So like, okay, girls camp. So I remember we got,
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  I think it's that same year. Cause then we went,
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  we were up at Morgan, wherever. Yeah. I don't remember
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  the name of the camp. And they put us in
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  with the 12 year olds.
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  Speaker 1: Yes. The first year. Me and you were assigned together.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. With the 12 year olds in the cabin.
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  And for some reason they had it in their head
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  that you and I were like, going to do all
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  these pranks and all these shenanigans.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: And we were just like, are you kidding me like
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  we were.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was we sister I think.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: It was you yeah but they just thought yeah they
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  just thought and I'm like crap what are we gonna
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  do and so you had a bag of jelly bellies
• 10:19
  yes And we played the Jelly Belly game every night
• 10:24
  where we.
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  Speaker 2: Put a jelly bean in the mouth and we had
• 10:28
  to guess the flavor. That's it. Girls had a blast.
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  Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Yeah, yep, yep.
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  Speaker 2: You do two. Guess the two. Like, every night for
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  hours we did jelly beans in the mouth.
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  Speaker 1: That's funny. I forgot about that part. That's fun. That
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  is fun.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, well.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness. I can't even tell you what girls
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  were in. I can't tell you.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think they have multiple children
• 10:59
  right now. They'll have multiple children by now. It's kind
• 11:04
  of scary.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: But it was during, I think it was during that
• 11:09
  camp where. Um, I can't, I mean, I didn't know
• 11:16
  this till much later, but that particular moment was when my,
• 11:19
  my husband money was having, you know, his depths of the,
• 11:24
  of a faith crisis. And, and I knew that it
• 11:27
  had happened, it was happening, but it was really that
• 11:30
  he has a real memory of being alone because I
• 11:33
  was gone and, and it just kind of crushing down
• 11:35
  on him. But at that time, um, it wasn't happening
• 11:40
  to anybody. You know, they, now they called it, they
• 11:42
  used to call it a faith crisis. Now they call
• 11:44
  it faith deconstruction or reorganization or whatever. It's, you know,
• 11:52
  it was happening.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Transition.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Transitioning. Yeah. Yeah. Faith transitions. But nobody. No one.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: It was, it was not talked about at that time. Right. No.
• 12:03
  It was hush hush. And every, it was like, if
• 12:06
  someone is having this faith crisis, they were breaking the commandments.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: They were not worthy. They were, there were something's off
• 12:16
  with them.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Right. Right.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: And it was like, I did not understand that logic.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: It's like, Oh, they must be having an affair or
• 12:26
  they're drinking or they're like, and I'm like, because they're questioning,
• 12:31
  like they're having questions. Yeah. That, that, That was a
• 12:37
  frustrating part of that for me was I didn't, I
• 12:42
  remember everybody, like people would not touch you with a
• 12:47
  10-foot pole.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: It was this.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: It was hard. Like, it was like I had a leprosy.
• 12:53
  It was really difficult. But I remember exactly. We were
• 12:58
  in your Subaru. You were having to take your Subaru
• 13:02
  in to get fixed, your first Subaru when we first met.
• 13:06
  And so you were like, I got to go do this.
• 13:08
  Do you want to go with me? And I was like, sure,
• 13:10
  you know? And so I was coming along for the
• 13:12
  ride and I remember we were, um, I know exactly
• 13:16
  where we were on the road. And, and I said
• 13:18
  to you, I said, I, I said, I need your help.
• 13:22
  I think I said, and you were like, what do
• 13:23
  you need? You know, and you were, you're, you're always
• 13:26
  optimistic and positive. And, and I felt like I was, um,
• 13:33
  I was confessing a murder. to you when that, to
• 13:38
  say that what was happening with my husband and you
• 13:42
  were like, oh, and I were, we, we circled up
• 13:45
  and came back down and we had to drop it
• 13:47
  off and then somehow come back down. I don't know
• 13:49
  how that all worked, but just in this circle that
• 13:52
  we drove, um, you were like, okay. And then we,
• 13:56
  we drove probably a couple more miles and you said
• 13:59
  something to me and you said, I'd kill to have
• 14:02
  my husband have like a midlife crisis like that. And
• 14:08
  I don't think it was just the perfect thing to
• 14:14
  say to me because everybody was not wanting to touch
• 14:16
  me with a 10-foot pole. And you were like, outrage
• 14:19
  of places. And that was so far in the opposite
• 14:23
  direction of what I encountered up until that point that
• 14:27
  it just was like, it was like a lifeline. It
• 14:31
  was like, okay, maybe there's a different way to look
• 14:35
  at this. Maybe, you know, cause I had not encountered
• 14:38
  anything that was even remote. And so, and so there
• 14:43
  was that moment.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: I didn't even think about the vulnerability of you saying
• 14:49
  that because so many people, like, like you said, everybody, nobody,
• 14:53
  it was leprosy. Nobody wanted anything. And you saying that,
• 14:58
  you were like risking this friendship. Yeah. Which did not
• 15:02
  even occur to me that that was even, well, why
• 15:05
  wouldn't we talk about that? What's the, like, I don't,
• 15:08
  it didn't even occur to me that that, that was
• 15:11
  even an option.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Like I don't, I don't understand that. Yeah. I still
• 15:16
  to this day don't get that.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And I think that's why I came out with like, Hey,
• 15:20
  I might need your help. Like I'm trying to be
• 15:22
  all pitiful because I didn't know what the reaction would be.
• 15:27
  And it was just, okay, what do you, What do
• 15:29
  we do? You know, and little by little over the
• 15:31
  next couple of years, you were the one that started
• 15:34
  talking to me about, you know, that we would we
• 15:36
  would dog on people that were all about the essential
• 15:39
  oils companies. We would like that's so dumb. And then
• 15:41
  one day you're like, hey, I kind of learned something.
• 15:43
  And I'd be like, OK. And I would probably take
• 15:46
  a little while longer. And then you would show me
• 15:48
  and be like, oh, I get it. And then you
• 15:51
  would talk about going and getting Reiki. And I'd be like, go, girl,
• 15:56
  go do that. And then you were like, I think
• 15:59
  I might want to take it. And I was like,
• 16:02
  go on ahead, go on ahead. And then a couple
• 16:04
  months go by. And then I'm like, you know what?
• 16:06
  I think I need to take that too. I mean,
• 16:09
  I was like molasses slow coming along. You were the
• 16:13
  one that were like, let's try it. Let's you tell
• 16:15
  me this and you would tell me that. So, I mean,
• 16:17
  this platform would not exist if it wasn't for you. I,
• 16:21
  and you were so patient with me kicking and screaming and,
• 16:24
  And me and you both took Carol Tuttle's master energy
• 16:28
  therapist class. And it was so long ago to your,
• 16:31
  I was telling you about this the other day, there
• 16:33
  was no video. It was only audio. And we'd sit
• 16:38
  and listen to the classes and which is just cracks
• 16:42
  me up. I mean, that just cracks me up. And that's,
• 16:46
  that's when I double dipped my toes in, but I,
• 16:49
  it was, You made that safe all along the way.
• 16:53
  And it was a lifeline because I decided to do
• 16:57
  that training because Carol had kind of this class that
• 17:02
  you could sign up for. It was for free. It
• 17:05
  was like a free thing, I think. And she was like,
• 17:07
  let's just do a chakra training. you know, quite, and
• 17:11
  she just take the little ball that you pull, you know,
• 17:13
  you bounce off.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: The ball and you bounce it and you thread it.
• 17:16
  The shopper threading.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: And I used to sit in the car by the
• 17:20
  girls were in ballet and do.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: It, do it. And I was just, I mean, I'm skeptic.
• 17:25
  I am a, I'm a rigid person, especially back then,
• 17:28
  but I went, I feel better. I feel better in
• 17:33
  two minutes. I feel better. And none of my problems
• 17:37
  were solved, but I felt better. And I thought, okay, uh, um,
• 17:41
  I'm down. And then, and then, so we, we went
• 17:43
  to our first, um, Reiki class together and learned Reiki.
• 17:48
  And I mean, I would not have walked in that
• 17:50
  door without you. I just would not. And, but I,
• 17:55
  I really loved it. Um, and then you started talking about,
• 17:58
  there's like this, Hey, there's this shaman class. I just
• 18:00
  totally want to do it. And I'm again, go on.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I'll support you. Do you remember how the Shabbat thing
• 18:07
  came about? Tell me, tell me your story. I was
• 18:09
  reading that book, Anatomy of a Calling. Oh, yes. Yes.
• 18:15
  And she had, she had a shamanic, she went on
• 18:19
  a shamanic journey.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: On her wedding day and her husband was like, that
• 18:24
  was the best nap ever. And she like had this
• 18:26
  huge download. And I was like, oh. I need to
• 18:29
  go on a shamanic journey. I need to go on
• 18:31
  a shamanic journey. And so I went to one of
• 18:34
  my friends and like, you have to, do you know
• 18:36
  a shaman? Like, do you know any shamans? And she's like,
• 18:39
  I do. I know this guy named Jeff. Like, let
• 18:41
  me talk to him. I'm like, okay. So she talked
• 18:43
  to him. Okay. And she's like, he's teaching a class.
• 18:46
  And I'm like, I'm in.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Was this Dusty or Robin that told you about him? Dusty. Okay.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Dusty. I just went, I remember going to her house
• 18:55
  and just being like, I need to go on a
• 18:57
  shamanic journey.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Like, I had a few safe people. Like, you, Dusty, Heather, Taryn. Like... Yeah.
• 19:09
  It was just... Like, Dusty handed me my first Wayne
• 19:14
  Dyer book.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Real Magic. And I remember I would open it up
• 19:18
  and I would just read wherever I read. Like, wherever
• 19:22
  it opened, I would just read in that moment.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: And it.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: That spoke to me. Like.
• 19:30
  There's, I mean, I don't remember much from reading Wayne Dyer.
• 19:33
  I remember how it made me feel, but there's one
• 19:37
  quote I'll never forget. And it was, you can be
• 19:40
  right and wrong at the same time. And what he
• 19:44
  was saying is if you're hurting someone to say that
• 19:46
  you're right, you're wrong. So, yeah. you're hurting someone, you're wrong. Yeah.
• 19:52
  And I, and I realized because in my marriage I was,
• 19:56
  everything was right and wrong and I was always wrong.
• 20:00
  And I realized that he was wrong because he was
• 20:03
  hurting me.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Like, and so I didn't want to hurt him. And
• 20:08
  so I was like, Even if I was right, I
• 20:10
  wouldn't hurt him because I didn't, like, that was wrong.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: But it was, like, I had never, like, that hadn't
• 20:16
  crossed my mind like that before.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: It cracked open his place for you to say, hey,
• 20:22
  maybe I'm not, maybe I'm not the only one wrong,
• 20:25
  if nothing else.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If nothing else. Yeah. So that was, like, that
• 20:31
  started me down the little, like, dusty, just, like. Yep.
• 20:36
  put pockets in there and like, okay, okay. And then, yeah.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I know those people come in and, and, and they
• 20:47
  change you. They make you a little bit more of yourself. Yeah. And,
• 20:50
  and that's special. So yeah, that went on for a
• 20:54
  couple of years. And then, um, and I was going
• 20:59
  through my marriage stuff. You were going, you know, so we,
• 21:02
  we could bond on that. So I think we were
• 21:04
  going to get our drink. two to three times a
• 21:07
  week easily.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: For like two hours.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Right. For two hours.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: It was, we were sitting in the driveway talking for
• 21:14
  two hours. I remember, yes, it was therapy. I remember
• 21:19
  you doing twin talk, like twin talk with my girls.
• 21:24
  So you would ask them like, What's your, like, what's
• 21:27
  your favorite color? And then, okay, what color is she
• 21:29
  thinking of? And then she would say the right color.
• 21:31
  And I'm just sitting there going, like you were doing
• 21:33
  all the, and the girls were just loving it.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: It was fun. Fun times.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I remember them saying something about me getting
• 21:45
  in trouble. Like, I'm going to tell my, like, Emery
• 21:47
  was like, I'm going to tell my dad and then
• 21:49
  my mom's going to get in trouble. Yep. And you
• 21:51
  were like, moms don't get in trouble.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: And she was like, mind us.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I remember the look on her face was like, oh.
• 22:01
  You know, like it was. She was a little, what,
• 22:04
  first grader? Kindergartner?
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Not even a kindergartner.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, yeah, it was. Meanwhile, you know, so we're
• 22:14
  bonding over. We're bonding over. And we didn't sit and
• 22:17
  bash our husbands. No. But we were definitely a support
• 22:20
  for each other during that time. It was like we
• 22:23
  didn't even need to say it. We had some understanding,
• 22:26
  you know, about. That we were both.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Feeling it at home.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Struggling. Yeah.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: And meanwhile, my husband brought up this book and it
• 22:35
  had like a questionnaire in the back and, and that's
• 22:37
  a whole other story.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you remember the name of the book? No.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Emotional abuse, how to heal and move for men.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Okay. And so he, we, that's like I say, that's
• 22:49
  a whole story. Um, get the, get into, go to
• 22:51
  the rubber share after episodes for that. But, um, he
• 22:56
  said to me, he's like, do you think you could
• 22:57
  show this to Lori? Cause meanwhile we had these, we
• 23:00
  would go out and we had a couple, like a
• 23:02
  few couples that we'd get.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Out and go to dinner together once a month.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, um, and so we had some interaction as
• 23:09
  couples and stuff. And he, he, he had noticed, I
• 23:11
  don't even know if he remembers what he noticed or
• 23:14
  what I noticed, but he was like, do you think
• 23:16
  you could show this to Lori? And I was like, no,
• 23:19
  I'm like, no. And, and, that was the end. And
• 23:24
  then a couple of months later, he was like, I
• 23:25
  think you really need to show this to Lori. And
• 23:27
  I'm like, you know, I promise you when the time
• 23:30
  presents itself, I will, I, I will do that. But I, I,
• 23:36
  the time has to be right. I can't, um, I
• 23:40
  don't want to, to disrupt our friendship and say, you know, Hey,
• 23:46
  things aren't okay in your marriage. I, that was just,
• 23:48
  that's just not something for someone to do. Yeah.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I appreciate that. Yeah. But like the way
• 23:55
  it happened was so perfect. Right.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: And that's one thing I'm like, the time will come.
• 24:00
  And so we had planned to hang out and you
• 24:03
  had called or texted, you know, it says I'm running
• 24:05
  late or whatever. And we had a third friend. And
• 24:09
  so we were just hanging out at my house and
• 24:10
  then you came to the door and we could just
• 24:12
  tell that everything wasn't okay. And you said, you know,
• 24:17
  I don't even remember what you said. It was something... Um,
• 24:22
  probably like I shouldn't have, or I did something wrong or,
• 24:28
  you know, and I don't even think you gave us
• 24:29
  the details.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I did not give you any of the details, but
• 24:33
  I told you about Riley's dream.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Okay. So you remember. Yeah.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: I remember. I remember. Cause we, Oh, you had just
• 24:42
  painted your Raylene.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: And we came to see the Raylene.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: And we were there and you guys are like, what's wrong?
• 24:49
  Like I was a complete.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we could tell.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Yes. And Riley had come to me that morning. She
• 24:58
  was seven. And she was like, Mom, I had a
• 25:01
  dream last night that you kissed me goodnight, you stood up,
• 25:05
  you stabbed yourself, and you died.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, gosh.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And she was like, promise me you won't leave
• 25:11
  me here. You'll take me first. Ugh. And I just
• 25:15
  was like, I will never leave you. I promise. Yeah.
• 25:20
  And it didn't hit me till much later how horrific
• 25:26
  that dream was.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Like, but I could tell you guys her dream, but
• 25:32
  I couldn't tell you what happened the night before. I
• 25:34
  couldn't talk about the huge blow up we had had
• 25:38
  the night before. Right. Because it wasn't, I just, I,
• 25:43
  that was me. Anyway, that was.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Well, you still felt at fault.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Right. Yes. It was my fault. Oh yeah. I didn't
• 25:50
  do the dishes. Yeah. I did not do the dishes.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Like I, I didn't, I did not do the dishes.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Like I'm. Yeah.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: And you hadn't told us at that point, but I
• 26:03
  went and got that book and I just said, well,
• 26:04
  you look over these questions.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no. You did not tell me to
• 26:08
  look over these questions.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: No, no.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: We sat on your couch. You sat on the corner
• 26:13
  of your couch. Like it was that sectional.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I sat right here.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Lindsay was right here. And you were like, let's just
• 26:20
  take this quiz in this book. You didn't even tell
• 26:23
  me the name of the book. I didn't see anything.
• 26:25
  So you just opened it. And we're 90s kids. We
• 26:29
  took quizzes and memorization all the time. Taking a quiz
• 26:32
  is like, you know, rite of passage. So we started
• 26:35
  taking these quizzes and these questions. I don't remember the questions,
• 26:39
  but I remember answering yes. And you guys answering no. Right.
• 26:44
  And by the fourth question, your guys' no's were no.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: No.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Absolutely no.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Like, this is ridiculous.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, wait.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: I remember the realization of, wait, your marriage isn't like this? Right.
• 27:03
  You don't... Wait, what? Right. And it was like, I just...
• 27:09
  And I was so embarrassed. I was so like.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Humiliated that I didn't see it. But I was safe. Like,
• 27:21
  and I just remember sitting there and you guys were like, no.
• 27:24
  And then you guys gave examples of things that he
• 27:27
  had done. Yeah. That I hadn't even realized.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: That we had even witnessed.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. Like, like Lindsay was talking about loading the
• 27:38
  trailer for girls camp. And I'm up there like. loading
• 27:42
  the trailer and he was there telling me how I
• 27:44
  was doing it wrong.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: And I didn't think twice about it. Like I didn't
• 27:48
  realize that Lindsay went home and was like yelling and
• 27:53
  was so upset about how he acted and treated me. Yeah.
• 27:57
  I didn't know that. I just, I just, that's, you know,
• 28:01
  and she's like, there was no way that her husband
• 28:03
  would have let her do that. He would have. And
• 28:05
  same with Monty. They would have gotten in and just
• 28:07
  loaded the trailer and taking care of it. But he
• 28:10
  instead sat there and criticized everything I did and I
• 28:14
  was doing everything wrong.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't, I just, but I really believed, I really
• 28:21
  believed everyone lived that way. Like, I look back and
• 28:27
  I'm like, why? I just assumed that everybody lived with
• 28:33
  that level of criticism and control. Yeah. Yeah. So we
• 28:40
  sat there and then we made a plan to wait.
• 28:44
  Then I told you guys about the fight the night before.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: About how he lost it. And like I was circled
• 28:51
  with the girls and Tolan in their bedroom and saying,
• 28:54
  mommy will do better. I'm so sorry. Mommy will do better.
• 28:56
  I mean, I can still picture.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Like I'm standing over witnessing that.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Right, right. You see it from a different angle than
• 29:06
  in your body.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: But we made a plan to wait two weeks.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: To talk to him about it. And then he walked
• 29:15
  in the door from work that night and my body,
• 29:20
  my spirit could not be in his presence. Yeah. I like,
• 29:25
  like was shaking. And I just remember saying to him, look,
• 29:31
  I feel like we're in a, I didn't say you're
• 29:33
  emotionally abusive. I just said, I feel like we're in
• 29:35
  an emotionally abusive marriage. We need help. And I need
• 29:39
  to move. I need you to move out until you
• 29:40
  get three sessions of counseling. So, you know, I'm serious. Right. Yeah.
• 29:46
  And he said, I'm not going anywhere. And I said,
• 29:49
  then I guess we're done.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: And that was it that I mean, but I would,
• 29:54
  I didn't know on Thursday or even Friday morning, That
• 29:58
  I would be saying that to him that night.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Right. And neither did we.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Nobody did. Nobody did.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't expect, you know, I never once thought she
• 30:07
  needs to leave him or whatever.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: No.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't that, but it was just, we
• 30:12
  need help. Like there's help here.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Yes. Like I.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: We need some help.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: But it was like, I just say it like the
• 30:19
  blinders coming off the horse.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden I can see this and
• 30:24
  I cannot deny it. Right. Like I, it's like, I
• 30:27
  knew it. Yeah. And I could not go back to unknowing.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Because then if I went back to unknown, like if
• 30:37
  I chose to not look at it or accept it,
• 30:40
  then I was willing to live in it. Then I'm
• 30:44
  okay with it. Right. But that's the one thing I'm
• 30:48
  really proud of myself for, is the minute I knew it,
• 30:52
  I got myself out.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Yes. And it was amazing to witness because I mean,
• 30:58
  it's a process. And it happened over the next couple months.
• 31:02
  But I would, you know, I would say, you know,
• 31:04
  it'd be the next morning or whatever. Hey, what's happening?
• 31:07
  Or can I come over or whatever? And you would
• 31:11
  have done all, you know, you had gathered the bank statements.
• 31:15
  You had whatever it was, things I would have never
• 31:17
  even known. And it wasn't like you could just pull
• 31:20
  up a YouTube video and figure out how you're supposed
• 31:22
  to do it. But you, there was something inside. It
• 31:28
  was wild, the things you got done and organized and
• 31:31
  accomplished in the 24 hours before I'd see you the
• 31:34
  next time. It would be this whole another step forward
• 31:37
  as far as preparing for a transition somewhere, doing something, something.
• 31:43
  And it was really impressive to watch because I was like, oh.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I had no idea. I didn't know what I was doing.
• 31:51
  And I just, those three months, what? From the middle
• 31:57
  of March, beginning of March till the end of May,
• 32:00
  he lived in the house. So that's March, April, May,
• 32:02
  three months. Uh-huh. In the basement. And I don't know
• 32:08
  how I did those three months. Like, I don't... I mean,
• 32:10
  he traveled a lot, but.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, I just look back and... And then when
• 32:16
  he moved out and... Like, he really thought he was
• 32:20
  coming back.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Like, he honestly thought... Right. That I was going to
• 32:27
  come to my senses.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: To use his word. And, you know, we got to
• 32:34
  fix Lori. We got to.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Yep. Like, and it was just, but it, do you remember, like,
• 32:42
  I had to fight my parents on the divorce. Yeah. Like,
• 32:45
  it wasn't just, I shouldn't say fight, but I had
• 32:48
  to get them on my side. Right. And I realized
• 32:52
  that I did a really good job of hiding that.
• 32:55
  the abuse. Yep. Yep. Yep. Like I was really good
• 32:59
  at hiding it. Yeah. Cause my family didn't know to
• 33:05
  the extent.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They did not know. Well, and we didn't, you know,
• 33:10
  and I don't know if anybody does because, um, it's, it, it,
• 33:15
  it comes in, um, at a different angle than, than
• 33:21
  other kinds of, issues, you know, it comes sideways a lot.
• 33:25
  And so I don't think anybody in your shoes would
• 33:29
  have seen it either. You know, it just, it's.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Well, and yeah, one of the, one of the biggest
• 33:36
  changing like moments that helped me so much during the
• 33:41
  divorce was when he wrote that sale family status report paper. Okay.
• 33:52
  And I read it. Yeah. And I believed it. And
• 33:59
  I was so full of shame. And I remember going
• 34:05
  over to your guys' house. I think we went to Lindsay's.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: And you and Monty came over and Lindsay and Kyle
• 34:09
  were there and I... Like, I remember sitting out in
• 34:14
  the car and getting the courage to go inside and
• 34:17
  share and tell you guys, look how terrible of a
• 34:20
  person I am.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Like, I was coming in to confess that I was
• 34:24
  this horrible person. Right. Because this paper proved it. Right.
• 34:30
  And we go in. And your guys' husbands' responses.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Like, saved me. Cause they were both like, are you
• 34:45
  effing kidding me? And I was like, wait, what? This isn't,
• 34:48
  they're like, no. And I was like, wait, what? And
• 34:52
  then Lindsay, we're going to read this in the only
• 34:54
  voice possible. And she started reading it in a flight
• 34:57
  attendant voice and pointing to exits. And she's like, this
• 35:03
  is just a roommate agreement.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: This is, and I'm like, wait, because it was how many,
• 35:08
  what time dinner was supposed to be ready? How many
• 35:10
  side dishes were supposed to be allowed? how much soda
• 35:13
  you were allowed to drink. I mean, it was nothing
• 35:16
  relational at all. There was no relational into it at all.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: The house must be vacuumed a minimum of twice a week.
• 35:22
  Lori is doing this like 40% of the time. Dinner
• 35:26
  must be on the table between 5.30 and 6 because
• 35:29
  the Tolan, Tyson and the kids are hungry. Lori's not hungry,
• 35:33
  but Tyson and the kids are hungry. And then he
• 35:35
  graded me on it. And then it was like male preparation. Like,
• 35:39
  was I properly prepared for dinner? Like, did I have
• 35:42
  the beans properly chilled for taco salad?
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And if I didn't, I didn't love him. Yep.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right, right.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Like, it was everything came back to love. Like, if
• 35:55
  I did not have the beans, you know, both garbanzo
• 36:00
  beans and kidney beans properly chilled for dinner, like if
• 36:05
  taco salad, I did not love him.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right, right.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: And it was like.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: And I admire the fact that you, cause what you,
• 36:15
  you walking in there with that paper, you were willing
• 36:17
  to be wrong. I mean, you, you were willing to
• 36:20
  be quote wrong. All the stuff, every step. Like if there's,
• 36:24
  if I need to pull something.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Back, I'll own it. I'll change it. Yeah.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You'll own it. But it just wasn't, it was
• 36:31
  just like those beans. That's not. gonna fix like that's
• 36:36
  not going to help him feel loved you know like
• 36:38
  that's that's not what we're talking about.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Because he would just move the finish line so okay
• 36:44
  I've properly chilled the beans now well where's the avocado
• 36:48
  oh I need avocado well you don't love me you
• 36:51
  don't have an avocado.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Right yeah like I remember he was upset about the
• 36:57
  kitchen the way it was organized so I wanted to
• 37:00
  I came over and said well we spent the whole
• 37:02
  day organize, organize it in a way that he would prefer.
• 37:06
  And I just remember him walking in the door and
• 37:10
  you're like, Hey, we did this. I mean, and I
• 37:12
  was proud too. You know, it was like, Hey, we
• 37:14
  heard you. That was what we were. That was the lesson.
• 37:17
  It was like, yes, we heard you. And at that time,
• 37:21
  especially like, I want you to feel the love that
• 37:25
  you say that you want. Here you go. And I
• 37:29
  think he went, huh? Hmm. Okay. You know, there was nothing.
• 37:34
  There was no love received at all.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Well, and he usually would then look and go, is
• 37:42
  that all you got done? Yeah.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: There was some, it was a criticism.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: And it was just, to me, my stomach just sunk. Because,
• 37:50
  and this is the thing, it wasn't like I went
• 37:53
  home and said, he's crazy either. I just felt like...
• 38:00
  what do we do now? You know what I mean?
• 38:02
  There was no, it still wasn't like something's wrong with him.
• 38:06
  I remember you saying, I'm going to get a divorce
• 38:09
  and feeling that sound come out of your mouth. And,
• 38:13
  and there were a lot of emotions tied to that,
• 38:16
  but there was a lot of freedom in that sentence
• 38:20
  for you. And I felt that for you.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, because like on my fifth anniversary, well,
• 38:30
  like we went to the temple and I was praying like,
• 38:35
  so on my fifth anniversary, I had no relationship with
• 38:37
  my family. He had isolated me from my family and
• 38:40
  I had no kids. And I was like, do I stay?
• 38:43
  Do I go? What do I do? Like, and I
• 38:46
  was raised that divorce was never an option ever. And
• 38:50
  so I was at the temple and he'd been saying
• 38:52
  to me, I'm your eternal family. You must cleave unto
• 38:54
  your husband, leave all others and cleave unto your husband.
• 38:57
  And so we went to the temple and, um, I
• 39:02
  had the answer that he is my eternal family. This
• 39:07
  is where I'm supposed to be. Yeah. And I held
• 39:11
  on to that for 15 years or 13 years. And
• 39:18
  I remember Dusty saying to me one day, probably a
• 39:21
  year before the divorce, not even a year. Yeah. Do
• 39:24
  you think that maybe that was just for then? And
• 39:28
  I was like, wait, what? And she's like, well, could
• 39:31
  that change?
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Right. Could it be a yes and a no at
• 39:34
  the same time? Yeah.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: And I just remember like, huh?
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Like, okay.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Like it was the first time I questioned, could that change?
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Because I felt like I was stuck, that I had
• 39:47
  to stay. Because my answer was, he's my eternal family.
• 39:50
  I'm here. This is where I'm at. Right. And that
• 39:52
  gave me the option to think, could I leave? Mm-hmm. Like,
• 39:57
  I didn't really, like.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: And he did travel a lot. So you knew what
• 40:04
  it was like to be on your own, you know.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: And could feel the difference between. Oh, yeah. there and not.
• 40:12
  And I think that was helpful at that time.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Um, but I was scared. I was so, he put
• 40:19
  so many things in my head about like, I'll never
• 40:23
  be able to afford it. My kids will be homeless. Well,
• 40:27
  you'll have to do this. You'll have like, and I just,
• 40:30
  it was to the point that I would rather be
• 40:34
  homeless than married to him. If I had to live
• 40:36
  on the street with my kids, I'll live on the
• 40:37
  street with my kids. I don't, like, anything.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Would be better.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Like, that, okay. That does not bug me. Like, and he, like,
• 40:47
  he couldn't, it was really interesting, like, dividing out the
• 40:51
  stuff in the house, how little I cared about anything. Yep.
• 40:55
  I remember. Like, he just wanted it all. And he
• 40:59
  tried to use it to control me.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: And I just was like, Like, the china. Yeah. He
• 41:08
  wanted to pay him, like, what? 1,200 bucks to keep
• 41:10
  the china? Yeah. And I'm like... Or he wanted to
• 41:13
  divide it in half. Like, we each took six play
• 41:15
  settings or something. And I'm like, you can have it.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: And he was like, okay.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Yes. All of those... Sticky things that.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, that happened. He took my pots and pans. He
• 41:28
  took my plates. He took half my kitchen. Like, I
• 41:31
  didn't take it. I don't care.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Whatever it takes to get you out the door, go.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Right, right. That's right.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: And I wish I wouldn't have gotten rid of those pans.
• 41:43
  They were really nice stainless steel, heavy pans.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, the pans.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: It was okay.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: That's pretty sad when you miss the pans more than
• 41:51
  the pans. I think that means you made a good choice.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: You made a good choice for yourself.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: If that's true. If that's true. It was just funny.
• 42:02
  I was like the pans. Yeah. I was like, do
• 42:05
  you remember? Okay, so I had stones. We were new
• 42:17
  to this whole energy world. Right. I was putting this
• 42:22
  stone on my chakras. And do you remember me saying,
• 42:26
  do they have to be on my skin? So I'm
• 42:30
  laying on my bed, and I had all the stones
• 42:33
  on my chakras, and I'm like, wait, do I have
• 42:35
  to have them on my skin? Or can they be
• 42:37
  on top of my clothes?
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I was there yet, so I
• 42:41
  was like, I don't know.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, I just remember. It was funny.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: That's so funny. And that's the thing. I mean, the
• 42:50
  things that I identified the same way, it was like
• 42:54
  I– I don't care what I got to do to
• 42:56
  feel better. I got to feel better. I got to
• 42:59
  feel better. Well, at that point in, what was that, 2014,
• 43:05
  you kind of thought that was going to be the
• 43:07
  challenge of your life. You thought this is the rupture
• 43:13
  that happens in your life and that you're going to.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: And it's going to just be smooth sailing. Right. Like just.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Like this is my problems are now over.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Like it's just my forties are going to rock.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Yep. I remember thinking I am going to know these forties.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yep. And then a couple of years later, um, you,
• 43:38
  I got a call two years, two years, almost to
• 43:41
  the day, you know, almost really close to the end.
• 43:45
  And they, you had a pain and you went to
• 43:48
  the emergency room in pain. Isn't that right?
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I thought I just had kidney stones. Oh,
• 43:56
  Like it was the kids. Um, it was the primary program.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: And the pain started on, I ate, let's laugh. I
• 44:06
  ate some taco soup. I probably shouldn't have had that
• 44:08
  was in the fridge too long. Right. And I got
• 44:11
  a little food poisoning and I was throwing up like crazy.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Oh shoot.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: And I just was like, oh, and then I just
• 44:16
  had this really bad pain and it just kept getting
• 44:20
  worse and worse. And I thought, oh, these are just
• 44:22
  kidney stones. So on Sunday, like I was supposed to
• 44:26
  go meet with like the bishopric and I called and said,
• 44:29
  I'm not feeling good. And they thought I just didn't
• 44:31
  want to call in. And, and then when I didn't
• 44:33
  show up to church, they were like, Oh, she didn't
• 44:36
  come to the primary program. She's really sick.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: And then I just, I was.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: In so much pain.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: That I remember like, this is just kidney stones. We'll
• 44:46
  just go to the doctor Monday morning. So my mom
• 44:48
  took me to the doctor Monday morning. We walked into
• 44:50
  urgent care. And they're like, we can't do anything to
• 44:54
  help you. You just need to go to the ER. Like, oh, no.
• 44:57
  They said, it's a public kidney stones. Our CAT scan
• 45:01
  machine's down. You just need to go to the ER.
• 45:04
  So I remember walking out, leaving my shoes, everything in
• 45:09
  the room, walking out to my mom in the waiting room,
• 45:12
  crying and saying, mom, you've got to come back. We've
• 45:15
  got to go to the hospital. And then we went
• 45:18
  up to the Ogden Regional and... It was a CAT scan.
• 45:23
  And then they're like, we need to do an ultrasound.
• 45:25
  And I'm like, went and did the ultrasound. And before,
• 45:31
  a couple of weeks before this, we'd gone down to
• 45:35
  the bookstore in Salt Lake. And I had my first
• 45:38
  tarot card reading. Yes. Do you remember how amazing, like
• 45:43
  the ten of swords, like the staff in the back?
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: The first card he pulls over. And we didn't know
• 45:49
  till the end, but he just was like squealing in
• 45:52
  his chair. Like, so have you been having a hard time?
• 45:56
  Or like, have you been going through anything? You know,
• 46:01
  and so he's trying to make sense of this spread
• 46:04
  that looks like a rough time. This was a rough time.
• 46:09
  And then the very last card flips over and you
• 46:12
  could see it. He went, okay. He's like, and it
• 46:15
  was the magician card. And he said, you're going to
• 46:18
  be okay. All right. Now, and like, he kind of
• 46:21
  went back and was like, okay, here's what was going
• 46:23
  on here. Like, he didn't really kind of let us
• 46:25
  in on all that had been going on, but it
• 46:27
  made so much sense to you and to me too,
• 46:29
  because it was like, yeah, that about fits. Like, it
• 46:32
  felt like, you know, the 10 of swords is 10
• 46:35
  swords stabbed in the back.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The words, because swords represent words. And so it
• 46:39
  was the stabbing of words in the back. So he's like,
• 46:41
  someone has hurt you verbally. Like, I'm like, Yes. Yes.
• 46:46
  Just a little bit. Yeah. And then I bought some
• 46:50
  tarot cards.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you were like, I'm all in.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: I'm all in. And then I bought, like, I got on, like, what,
• 46:57
  Louise Hay House or something and bought, like, 10 decks.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Like, Oracle decks, all of this.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: So I'm sitting in, and this is the Monday, like,
• 47:08
  the week before, I finally shared with my family that
• 47:10
  I'd had a tarot card reading. Yeah. And I showed
• 47:12
  it to, it was so... It meant so much to me.
• 47:16
  I probably shouldn't have shared it with them because they
• 47:18
  didn't understand it. They didn't get it. But I shared
• 47:23
  it with them. And so we're sitting in the, so
• 47:27
  that was a couple of weeks earlier and we're sitting
• 47:28
  in the emergency room and they come back and they're like, okay,
• 47:32
  you have a huge cyst, 10 centimeter cyst on your ovaries.
• 47:39
  It looks funny. There is a 50, 50 chance this
• 47:43
  is cancer. If you were my wife, I would go
• 47:47
  to an oncologist, like a gynecologic oncologist so that they can,
• 47:51
  because if it is cancer, they have to do a
• 47:53
  debunking surgery. So then you would just have one surgery,
• 47:56
  not two.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay. And I just, I just remember like, okay.
• 48:01
  And my mom, they leave the room. I didn't realize
• 48:06
  that they were trying to get me into an oncologist
• 48:09
  that day.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Because we're waiting and. So we're in the room and
• 48:14
  they leave. And my mom just looks at me, shakes
• 48:17
  her head and just says, just promise me you'll throw
• 48:20
  those tarot cards.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Away. Oh, that was fun.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: I looked at her and said, I just bought 10
• 48:28
  new decks. And she's just like, like she's, she's trying.
• 48:34
  She's wrapping her head around this.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Like here's her daughter. Like, She had survived stage four cancer.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's thrown everything at her most vulnerability.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Yes. And her daughter. And she's like, how can I
• 48:53
  make this go away? Anything. And I understand.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: I don't remember.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: But it was just, I just will never forget. It
• 49:00
  was a funny moment.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: What did you feel in that moment?
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I just remember. Was it just surreal? Oh.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't believe it. Okay.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't believe it. Like, I just was like, okay,
• 49:13
  like 50, 50 chance. Okay.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: And then they got me into Dodson the next day and.
• 49:20
  and I remember going down there and I didn't take
• 49:24
  pain pills pills with me and he just saw me
• 49:26
  on his lunch break like he fit me into his
• 49:29
  day and I just remember the pain pills wearing off
• 49:33
  and being in so much pain asking them for pain
• 49:35
  pills and he's like I can't give you I don't
• 49:37
  have I can't give you any I'm sorry right right
• 49:38
  right But he said 10% chance. Like he was like,
• 49:44
  I think there's a 10% chance. This is probably just
• 49:46
  a uterine, uh, endometriosis cyst, like 10% chance. And then
• 49:52
  he's like, let's run your CA 125 number. See what
• 49:55
  it says. So I went down and did that. And
• 49:58
  then that was a Tuesday had surgery Thursday. That TA 120,
• 50:04
  the CA 125 number was like in the nineties. Hmm.
• 50:09
  I'm at five now.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: He knew before going into surgery that I was likely
• 50:14
  to have cancer. But he didn't know when he saw
• 50:17
  me in the doctor's office.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: So then we just went up Thursday morning to have surgery.
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: And they removed both of your ovaries.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Just my ovaries and the cyst. But the cyst had
• 50:31
  been attached to my hip and had twisted. And that's
• 50:35
  what was causing all my pain. That's why I was
• 50:37
  in so much pain. And so they took out the ovaries,
• 50:40
  but the surgery, what's interesting is that surgery was so
• 50:45
  much more painful than my last surgery where they opened
• 50:48
  me all the way up. But I remember my parents
• 50:53
  took me down to like, so I had to drop
• 50:55
  my kids off at their dad's.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: And he had to take them overnight. Yeah. I just
• 51:03
  laughed because he's like, I helped you so much. Right.
• 51:06
  He took them so I could have surgery.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Twice right right right right two.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Nights yeah let's remember never mind doesn't matter right anyway
• 51:18
  so we go down and we're going to Huntsman like
• 51:21
  we're going to the cancer center to do the surgery
• 51:23
  yeah and they're like they said to my parents we'll
• 51:27
  let you know and like 45 minutes into the surgery
• 51:30
  it said I was coming out yeah and then I
• 51:33
  went back in and my parents knew immediately that I
• 51:37
  had cancer Uh-huh. So they could do it immediate. And
• 51:41
  then they, my surgery was four hours. So it was like,
• 51:45
  they went back in and he was like, we did
• 51:47
  as much as we could without opening her up. So like,
• 51:50
  I was so like, I just remember waking up going,
• 51:53
  I'm in so much pain. And then they did. Oh, um,
• 51:58
  a nerve block. That sucker was painful. Cause they had
• 52:02
  to like weave this needle in and with an ultrasound machine. Oh,
• 52:05
  but then it helped. And then I remember. I'm a four,
• 52:11
  I had just turned 40. So I was 40 years old.
• 52:13
  And I remember saying to the nurse, I'm coming out
• 52:16
  of anesthesia. And I remember saying, do I or don't I?
• 52:19
  And they're like, I can't, I'll go get the doctor.
• 52:21
  So I just kept saying, do I or don't I?
• 52:23
  And then they finally said, you do. I'm like, okay, fine, whatever.
• 52:26
  And then they did the nerve block. And then I'm like, wait,
• 52:29
  my mom cannot help me get dressed. I have a
• 52:31
  tattoo she does not know about. I was panicking about
• 52:36
  this tattoo that my parents didn't know I had. And
• 52:40
  then she couldn't see that I'd gotten a year and
• 52:42
  a half or like a year earlier. Like, Oh, I
• 52:48
  can look. I think shortly after realized how stupid that was.
• 52:54
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Fighting for my life. And I'm worried about a tattoo. Right. Right.
• 52:58
  Like it was big, but I, it was like a
• 53:02
  panic moment. Yeah. And then I just remember they took
• 53:06
  me out to the like recovery room and And I
• 53:10
  was in so much pain, so much pain. And I
• 53:17
  went to the bathroom. I felt like I had to
• 53:18
  go to the bathroom. So I went to the bathroom
• 53:20
  and I came back and they had taken my bed
• 53:22
  and brought one of those like reclining chairs. Cause I'm
• 53:24
  getting ready to send you home. And I like started
• 53:27
  the ball. You took my bed, like you took my bed.
• 53:30
  And so then they brought all these pillows and we
• 53:32
  tried to make it, we reclined it and made it
• 53:34
  as bedlike as we could. And they're like, we're not
• 53:37
  sending you home. I'm like, I can't go home. I'm
• 53:39
  not okay. I can't go home. And they're like, we're
• 53:41
  not sending you home, but we have to wait for
• 53:43
  a bed. And then all I wanted was my kids.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: And so I just said to my parents, you need
• 53:49
  to go get my kids. And I mean, I'm bawling.
• 53:51
  I just remember I was in so much pain and
• 53:54
  my parents leaving. And then the next thing I knew,
• 53:57
  here comes my dad back. And he, like, and he
• 54:02
  gave me a blessing. Like, he's like, And my mom,
• 54:05
  I found out later, they'd walked out and he'd gone
• 54:08
  to the bathroom and he came out of the bathroom
• 54:10
  and he was just like crying. And he's like, I
• 54:12
  can do nothing to take this away from her. And
• 54:15
  that was the only thing he could do to help me.
• 54:17
  He had any power to do anything. That was the
• 54:21
  only thing he had to give. And so he came in,
• 54:24
  gave me a blessing, kissed me on my forehead and
• 54:25
  left and went and got my kids. But I just, like,
• 54:29
  I just will never forget them coming back and him
• 54:31
  just saying, Being helpless. Right. And as a parent being helpless. Right.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Is the worst feeling.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: So I just remember him like that's what I remember.
• 54:41
  And then they left and then I got into a
• 54:44
  room and then they brought my kids up and oh
• 54:47
  my goodness. So my kids were what? Nine and 14, 13, 14. And. Scary, scary, scary. Yeah.
• 55:00
  was it Emory or Riley? I think it was Riley
• 55:02
  that was like hospital, hotel, hospital, hotel. So like behind
• 55:08
  me looked like a hospital, but on the other wall,
• 55:10
  it looked like a hotel. And so she just kept
• 55:12
  like this. Tolan sat in the chair, wouldn't have touched me.
• 55:16
  Emory kind of did the same thing. It was by
• 55:19
  my parents. They just, they were not, they remember even
• 55:23
  with how little they were, they remember the drive up there. Yeah. Yeah.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: I bet.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: With all the trees and yeah. And they had to
• 55:30
  go to their dad's house and they had to go
• 55:32
  to their dad's house and pick them up. So they
• 55:33
  were at their dad's and had to spend like two
• 55:35
  nights at his house.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Oh. It was just like.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: It was the big thing. Yeah. And we started. So
• 55:45
  we started our shamanic journey after that. Was it after that?
• 55:49
  And so.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Our first one was right before my first treatment.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Okay. That's right. So most of the time you were bald.
• 55:57
  You were bald going through that treatment. And it felt
• 56:00
  sacred doing that with that, you know, with that as
• 56:03
  a focus and to be there with you through that
• 56:06
  and to have that happening at that time, it felt like,
• 56:10
  it felt like a journey.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: It was exactly where it needed to be. Yeah.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: It was, it was special for the whole group to
• 56:20
  have you there to, to recognize that life happens and, um,
• 56:26
  and to ask ourselves questions about that for ourselves, you know, you,
• 56:30
  you were there and, and was a big part of
• 56:36
  that journey for, for all of us, for me, for sure. And,
• 56:40
  and so meaningful. And, and, and, and I know that
• 56:44
  we talked, you know, you get a diagnosis like that,
• 56:47
  of course, you're going to start asking yourself why and
• 56:51
  what and how and all this stuff. And, and, and, we,
• 56:57
  and that, that, um, shamanic journey kind of asked those
• 57:00
  questions for you, which was, which was nice. And we
• 57:05
  got through it. I came with you to some, a
• 57:08
  couple of the treatments and it's surreal and it feels like, okay,
• 57:14
  this is big girl stuff. Like this isn't, I'm an
• 57:17
  adult now. And, and, um, and that you're, diagnosis. I
• 57:24
  tell the story of like the worst year of my
• 57:26
  life and yours was the tail end of all those
• 57:29
  hits of, of, of, of traumatic events. Um, and I think,
• 57:35
  and you know, that was the, so I, I had
• 57:38
  those same questions. It was like, what, you know, for myself, like, well,
• 57:41
  how is this? What more, you know, I, I had,
• 57:44
  I had believed in some kind of a, um, transactional
• 57:51
  type living where this did not add up. I mean,
• 57:56
  I was like, I know.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not perfect, but two plus two is four.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I know that I have.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: A lot to improve, but I, I do not think
• 58:05
  this was, this does not deserve it. You know? And
• 58:08
  then I, it was on top of that. I was like,
• 58:09
  and I'm not even the one going through it. You
• 58:11
  know what I mean? It was like, it was real.
• 58:14
  Like I say, real life, real life.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: It was, it was shocking. Like it, Like you don't
• 58:23
  believe it's happening to yourself. Like you just like shaving
• 58:28
  your head.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: Right. Do you remember you had decided you were going
• 58:34
  to cut your hair shorter and shorter for fun, which
• 58:38
  I thought was fun. And then when you got to
• 58:40
  a certain point, you were going to dye it all pink.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: I did. As a remembrance. Yeah.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: As a remembrance of your aunt. Uh-huh.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: And.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: So I think it took that long for me to
• 58:51
  buy my first little set of cards. And these are
• 58:54
  such innocent little Oracle cards. I mean, it looks like
• 58:57
  a kid's book. They're so gentle. And so we said, well,
• 59:02
  let's pull a card, you know, and literally the card
• 59:06
  we pulled was this little kid with a mohawk, pink mohawk.
• 59:10
  on the bike we both just went like oh my gosh.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: I have the picture still on my phone of that card.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah it was without a doubt um at least a
• 59:23
  tiny bread crumb that said you're gonna be okay or
• 59:26
  we're gonna take this journey or yeah I see.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: You got this. Yeah. Yeah. We are aware you are,
• 59:32
  you are not forgotten. Yes.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: It was shocking. And the card said rebel. And it
• 59:40
  was like, do it your own way, like figure it out. And,
• 59:43
  and it had such deep meaning. It was like, you know,
• 59:46
  cause I was really surprised. And I, like I said,
• 59:49
  I was to the side and didn't get the full impact,
• 59:52
  but I was very surprised at the messages you, the,
• 59:55
  the many million different messages you, that came to you.
• 1:00:00
  I mean, you know, you, um, that people would offer
• 1:00:04
  their opinions or they would want to know why in
• 1:00:07
  some way they wanted to make sense of how this happens.
• 1:00:11
  So they don't have to in their own life.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: And people had opinions about getting chemo. People had opinions
• 1:00:18
  about different doctors and it was a lot to manage
• 1:00:24
  while you're trying to comprehend, I mean, your life is
• 1:00:27
  just turned upside down, up is down and down is up.
• 1:00:30
  And then you're trying to navigate what people are trying
• 1:00:33
  to tell you how to be in that moment. I
• 1:00:37
  feel like that's one of the reasons why I wanted
• 1:00:40
  to talk to you because I think we don't do
• 1:00:44
  that well. I think when someone else is having a
• 1:00:47
  hard time, you know, I had my thing, you had
• 1:00:49
  your thing. We, you know, um, it, it, we don't
• 1:00:54
  do that well. We, we, we, take someone else's pain
• 1:00:58
  and we can't hold it and therefore we can't be
• 1:01:03
  supportive or empathetic either. It's too scary.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Well, you want to make sense of it and how
• 1:01:09
  can you not have this happen to you?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: You want to prevent it at all costs. Yep.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: And so what were some of the things that people
• 1:01:17
  did or said that was the best, that was the
• 1:01:20
  most supportive, that helped?
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: I remember Tammy saying to me, Like, so Melissa, she
• 1:01:29
  was the Relief Society president, I believe. And she was like,
• 1:01:34
  can we come fold your laundry? Can we do that?
• 1:01:36
  And I'm like, no, I'm fine. No, like I've been
• 1:01:39
  divorced two years. Right. Like almost to the month, two years. Yeah.
• 1:01:44
  So I've been on my own two years. I'm like
• 1:01:46
  a single mom. I have these little kids. Yeah. So
• 1:01:49
  I have to work. I have to do this. And
• 1:01:51
  I just remember, like, can we do this? And I'm like, no,
• 1:01:54
  I'm fine. I got this.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: And Tammy, I don't know why, she was safe.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: But she was like, can I just come clean your
• 1:02:03
  toilet so you have somewhere clean to throw up? Yep.
• 1:02:07
  And I was like, you can clean my toilet. Yeah. Like, toilet. Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  Not bathroom, toilet. Yeah. And she's like, okay. And she's like,
• 1:02:14
  while I'm there, can I just clean your bathroom?
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, fine. Yeah. And she used to clean
• 1:02:20
  houses when she was going to school. And so she, like...
• 1:02:24
  She's like, I've cleaned houses. I've done this. And she
• 1:02:26
  was safe.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: She's just safe. And then she's like, is it okay
• 1:02:32
  if I just do the whole house? And I'm like, sure.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: But, I mean, that was weeks of her slowly moving
• 1:02:42
  into that. And so she came my first chemo treatment.
• 1:02:44
  And I think she was there the whole entire day
• 1:02:46
  I was at chemo.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, chemo, I left at, like, 7 in the
• 1:02:51
  morning and got home at 5 at night. It was
• 1:02:53
  a long day. Right, right, right. But she washed my rugs.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: I came home, and there was a big thing. I
• 1:03:01
  drank Diet Mountain Dew at the time, and there was this, like,
• 1:03:04
  thing from Costco of Diet Mountain Dew and flowers and this, like, little, like,
• 1:03:12
  plaque thing, like a little saying. And I just was
• 1:03:16
  so grateful. Mm-hmm. I just, I couldn't, I didn't realize
• 1:03:22
  how much I needed.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't know.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: How, and then I got so sick after that first
• 1:03:30
  treatment and ended up back in the hospital on Monday.
• 1:03:34
  And then anyway, but by the next, like every treatment,
• 1:03:40
  she's like, can I come? And I'm like, yeah. And
• 1:03:41
  she's like, it's okay if I have people help me.
• 1:03:43
  And I think, I don't know how many people were helping.
• 1:03:45
  I don't even know. Who came and cleaned my house?
• 1:03:47
  I don't even know. I'm just so grateful. But I
• 1:03:51
  remember I had broken the plate in my microwave. And
• 1:03:56
  I didn't know. But then one time I came home
• 1:03:59
  from chemo and I had a new plate in my microwave.
• 1:04:02
  And I was like, what? And Sarah next door had
• 1:04:06
  ordered it. She found the IM number. She ordered it.
• 1:04:09
  They brought it in. Next time they came, they just
• 1:04:11
  brought it in. I was like, I couldn't. Things like
• 1:04:14
  that I couldn't do.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right, right.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: I couldn't do it.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Do you think that her coming and being very specific
• 1:04:26
  was helpful?
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Or was it just her sense of self?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: It was her energy. Yeah, her energy. And her... She
• 1:04:36
  doesn't just... Like, she's so... Yeah. I don't know. I
• 1:04:41
  just felt safe. She just felt safe. Yeah.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: And not that.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: like Melissa or other people didn't feel safe. It just,
• 1:04:46
  it wasn't comfortable, but it was the way, and it
• 1:04:49
  wasn't in a group. She just stopped and she's like,
• 1:04:52
  can I just clean your toilet? Like, yeah. And I
• 1:04:54
  was like, I can't let you clean my toilet. Like,
• 1:04:56
  I just, I was like, I don't want people cleaning
• 1:04:58
  up my shower. I just sort of like, right. Like
• 1:05:01
  I don't, I can do my own laundry.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: Right. Like, well, it was also criticized for how many years.
• 1:05:08
  So it was a tender topic that you had it right.
• 1:05:11
  So it was like, yes, that was going to be,
• 1:05:14
  difficult to feel like you were going to be judged
• 1:05:17
  for how you ran your household. I mean, that's for
• 1:05:20
  sure that would show up for sure.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: But the summer before I got sick, all right, when
• 1:05:27
  Hazel turned eight, you taught her to do her laundry.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: And I remember going, wait, at eight, they're old enough
• 1:05:35
  to do laundry. So when my girls were eight that summer,
• 1:05:38
  I taught them to do their laundry. That was the
• 1:05:41
  year before I got sick.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: And I like, I have not done their laundry since
• 1:05:47
  they were eight.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Yep. But like, they were so grateful. They, they did
• 1:05:51
  their own laundry. They did their own hair. Yeah. I just,
• 1:05:55
  I remember they were in ballroom and they were going
• 1:06:02
  to this ballroom competition and I was busy doing their hair.
• 1:06:05
  Like it was right after chemo. It was the Saturday
• 1:06:07
  after chemo. I had chemo on Wednesdays and then I'd had,
• 1:06:10
  and it was, I was sick. Like that was my
• 1:06:15
  worst day. Yeah. And I remember it start Friday and
• 1:06:21
  I remember you coming to the door and you'd look
• 1:06:23
  at me going, you know, those pain faces, like you're
• 1:06:29
  a 10, just go to bed. I got the girls
• 1:06:31
  go to bed, take a pain pill and go to bed.
• 1:06:34
  And I just remember going, thank you.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're like, your mouth was like, up and down.
• 1:06:41
  Like it was your face. It was like, you look
• 1:06:44
  exactly like the picture on the wall of like, I'm
• 1:06:47
  a 10 pain. And, and it was, it was like, yeah,
• 1:06:50
  you can, you, you're at, you're in enough. You can
• 1:06:53
  not do anything. You're allowed to do nothing. You're that's
• 1:06:57
  why they have that picture.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But I'm a single, I was a single mom.
• 1:07:01
  I had like things I had to do. And so, right, right, right.
• 1:07:04
  But I just like that permission of you can go
• 1:07:07
  to like, I got that you go. Okay. And like
• 1:07:11
  the dinners were so helpful. Right. But like, but not
• 1:07:16
  at the same time.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: Right. You know, well, do you think, because, you know,
• 1:07:21
  there is this awkwardness that we have to acknowledge that.
• 1:07:26
  I mean, like I say, I felt, I felt it
• 1:07:28
  in my way and, you know, everybody can kind of
• 1:07:32
  discard that. That's not going to happen to me. But
• 1:07:35
  when it comes to you, I mean, that's, they don't,
• 1:07:38
  you know, there's an idea that they don't have control.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: Have control of it. And you, I can't explain it
• 1:07:45
  without the worst use of the word energy because it's
• 1:07:48
  the energy that you bring, um, to that situation that
• 1:07:53
  says you can still face it. You can act like
• 1:07:55
  everything's fine, but people feel your energy. And, and, um,
• 1:08:03
  that was a wake up call to me to be like,
• 1:08:05
  I I, if I am uncomfortable in a situation, I
• 1:08:10
  need to take responsibility for that. I need to look
• 1:08:13
  at that. That's my stuff. Right. And, and I got
• 1:08:17
  to look at that rather than, um, dodge people, you know,
• 1:08:23
  because that's, that was very vivid to see people, um,
• 1:08:29
  with you be, you know, not be able to look
• 1:08:32
  you in the eye or, um, or it was interesting
• 1:08:37
  yeah or or you know a lot of things were
• 1:08:39
  done in in secret which I mean.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: That's behind my back which is like.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: But also it it was a little bit of so
• 1:08:47
  that I don't you know like it was a little
• 1:08:48
  bit of doing that for you to help themselves feel
• 1:08:51
  better it wasn't about the situation right it wasn't as
• 1:08:55
  much about you and that was painful to watch and
• 1:08:59
  at the same time you know i see the neighborhood
• 1:09:03
  show up on your door every single night And no
• 1:09:07
  one showing up on my door. I never felt jealous.
• 1:09:10
  I never, I never honestly felt jealous.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: No, but I remember you saying cancer is a gift
• 1:09:15
  because people can do cancer.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: People can do cancer.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: They couldn't, they couldn't do what you were doing. They
• 1:09:20
  didn't know how. Right.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: Even if they're showing up and not, you know, if
• 1:09:23
  they're ringing the doorbell and running, they could show up,
• 1:09:26
  but they, they didn't know how to show up for me.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: And they were, yeah.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: And, but, and, but it wasn't, you know, that was
• 1:09:33
  just mine to hold. I, you know, but I, I,
• 1:09:36
  because I was so grateful that you were getting the
• 1:09:38
  help because I knew you needed it. I mean, I
• 1:09:42
  knew you needed it. And yeah.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: I was so grateful. Yeah. Right. It was just.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: It was a, it was a, it took a village.
• 1:09:53
  It really did. And so then you recovered and you
• 1:10:05
  went back and got scanned and you're considered cancer-free. One
• 1:10:10
  year goes by, three years goes by, five years goes by,
• 1:10:13
  which is a big milestone. Five years.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: Five years, yeah. Five years they considered you the new
• 1:10:18
  C word, cure.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. And so was it a year ago about
• 1:10:22
  this time that you called me? Or was it July? No,
• 1:10:25
  it was June.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: It was May.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: It was May.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: May 21st.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, May 21st, 2025, you call me and you say, like, hey,
• 1:10:35
  how you doing? And you said, not too great, I remember.
• 1:10:38
  And I went, what? And you were like, I have
• 1:10:42
  another growth. And it was shocking because, in fact, I
• 1:10:47
  was thinking about this because, you know, when they took
• 1:10:51
  out the cancer before, the chemo was to make sure
• 1:10:55
  all the cancer cells were gone.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: Died.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: So for a cancer cell to either A, be dormant
• 1:11:02
  for years.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Nine and a half years.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Or B, like it's kind of a wild, it's
• 1:11:10
  kind of wild. Like it's kind of baffling, I think,
• 1:11:12
  to the doctors, would you say? Yeah. Like how did
• 1:11:14
  this happen? So nine and a half years later, pain
• 1:11:18
  sent you to the ER multiple times.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: Like blood clots.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, blood clots.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: And then I ended up with sepsis.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: So what did they scan that last time that hadn't
• 1:11:34
  got scanned every other time?
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: It was the sepsis. So they did a urinalysis and
• 1:11:43
  it came back positive for UTI. And so she's like,
• 1:11:46
  let's do a CAT scan to make sure you don't
• 1:11:49
  have any kidney stones. So I was septic. They knew
• 1:11:54
  my right kidney wasn't working.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: They knew... Like they were going to have to take,
• 1:12:00
  I had to go by ambulance to a different hospital
• 1:12:01
  because I needed interventional radiology to put in a tube
• 1:12:05
  in my kidney to make it drain and function. And
• 1:12:08
  so she's like, let's do this to make sure we
• 1:12:10
  don't have any kidney stones. Like let's, we need to
• 1:12:12
  do this. And I will, like, I mean, it's 1130
• 1:12:17
  at night, the night before my daughter's graduation from high school.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Tolan had just gotten into town. And it was like,
• 1:12:24
  I was, it was 930 and I was making, um,
• 1:12:27
  Lays for the girls for graduation. And my back started
• 1:12:30
  to hurt. And I just remember going, oh, this hurts.
• 1:12:34
  Maybe it's just from sitting. And then I started to shake,
• 1:12:38
  like get really cold. I couldn't get warm. And I
• 1:12:41
  just looked at Emery and I was like, and Riley,
• 1:12:43
  and I'm like, no, Emery wasn't home. And Tolan had
• 1:12:47
  left with his friends. They went to B-dubs. And I
• 1:12:51
  just was like, I'm going to go to bed. So
• 1:12:53
  I went upstairs. I could not get warm. I was
• 1:12:56
  in so much pain and I just went to Riley
• 1:12:58
  and I'm like, I need to go to the ER.
• 1:12:59
  And she's like, I've been to the ER five times. Right.
• 1:13:04
  And the last, since March. Right. It was like, are
• 1:13:07
  you joking mom?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: And she's like, are you sure? And I'm like, it's okay.
• 1:13:11
  I'll be okay. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I'm not okay.
• 1:13:15
  I'm not okay. So then I call Tolan and I'm like,
• 1:13:17
  Hey Tolan, I need to go to the ER. When
• 1:13:19
  are you coming home? And he's like, We just sat
• 1:13:21
  down at B-dubs. Like, as soon as I get the,
• 1:13:25
  as soon as the food comes and I can leave,
• 1:13:26
  I'll leave. He didn't have a car or he would
• 1:13:28
  have left. He had driven like his friends. And I'm like, okay,
• 1:13:32
  well then Emery comes home like 20 minutes later. So
• 1:13:35
  it's like 10, 1030. And I'm like, Emery, I need
• 1:13:40
  to go to the ER. Yeah. And I'm shaking. I
• 1:13:43
  can't get warm. I have a heating pad in my bed.
• 1:13:45
  I've got five blankets on. I'm like, I'm not okay.
• 1:13:48
  And she looks at me and she goes, get your shoes.
• 1:13:50
  Let's go. And she's like, I had a fever of 102.
• 1:13:54
  Like I was sick. Yeah. And she had to drive.
• 1:13:57
  So she drove me to the ER and we're walking in.
• 1:14:00
  And I remember saying, I can't carry my purse. It's
• 1:14:03
  too heavy. Right. And she's like, what the heck? So
• 1:14:07
  then I go up to the desk and I'm like, da, da, da, da.
• 1:14:09
  And then they do my vitals. They take you over
• 1:14:11
  and do your vitals. And my blood pressure is so low.
• 1:14:16
  They immediately took me back. It was low.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: It was low.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: It was too low. I think it was low. She
• 1:14:22
  was just like possible sepsis, room two. And then she
• 1:14:26
  put me in a wheelchair and took me back. And
• 1:14:27
  I'm like, wait, what?
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: Like they knew. I mean, if you're sick, they immediately
• 1:14:33
  take you back. I didn't know that. Right.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: You were that sick. You were like, oh, I'm that sick.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't realize I was that sick. And then
• 1:14:41
  it was all hands on deck. Like they were doing EKGs.
• 1:14:45
  I mean, I've never been in an emergency room where like.
• 1:14:49
  You're immediately just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: And then that's when she's like, okay, you do have
• 1:14:54
  a really raging UTI. Let's check this. And then they checked.
• 1:14:58
  And then she comes in and she's like, and now
• 1:15:00
  Tolan's there. Emery's there. Emery's been watching my vitals the
• 1:15:04
  whole time. Right. And she was like, we're going to,
• 1:15:08
  like before they did the CAT scan, she's like, we're
• 1:15:10
  going to have to take you to Ogden up to
• 1:15:13
  McKady so that they can do interventional radiology. But she goes,
• 1:15:17
  we'll have to take you by ambulance. And I'm like, well,
• 1:15:21
  first she's like, we might have to keep you overnight
• 1:15:23
  if your numbers. And I'm like, wait, what? No, no,
• 1:15:26
  I'm not staying overnight. I have a graduation in the morning.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: And she's like, well, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then
• 1:15:32
  she's like, we're going to have to take you to Ogden. Um,
• 1:15:35
  and I'm like, by ambulance, like, yeah, I'm like, we're fine.
• 1:15:40
  And she's like, um, you're not stable.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: And Emery's like, no, your numbers are all over the place.
• 1:15:47
  You are like, you are not stable enough to not
• 1:15:50
  go without an ambulance. And I'm like, I'm not like,
• 1:15:54
  I didn't realize I was that sick. And then she's like,
• 1:15:56
  we went and did the CAT scan. And then she's like, um,
• 1:15:59
  I need to have a talk with you.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, okay. Like maybe without your kids.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: So the kids left the room and she's like, we
• 1:16:07
  found a growth and a tumor. And I'm like, oh,
• 1:16:12
  you can bring the kids back.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: It's fine.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: We've already done this. Like it was just, your cancer's back.
• 1:16:17
  It was not, there was no question that it was cancer.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: It was just, she knew. Like from her or from you?
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: From her. She knew. She was like, you've got cancer.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay. All right. Bring the kids back.
• 1:16:33
  So then she brings, I mean, it's 1130, 12 o'clock
• 1:16:35
  at night. She brings the kids back. That was the
• 1:16:39
  hardest moment.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: Is watching. knowing that she's going to say this to
• 1:16:44
  my kids and watching their, and my son and their
• 1:16:47
  faces just be like, shit, we have to do this again.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: How the hell are we going to do this? Yeah. Why?
• 1:16:55
  And yeah, like just the tear, like, and like, I
• 1:17:00
  will never forget the looks on their face and Riley's
• 1:17:04
  home alone and has no idea. And so then the
• 1:17:07
  kids leave and it's probably one in the morning and
• 1:17:13
  I'm still waiting to go by ambulance. And then the
• 1:17:15
  next thing I know, here come my parents. And I'm like,
• 1:17:19
  how'd you guys? And they're like, Emery and Tolan called us.
• 1:17:24
  And I'm like, oh. And I was like, I didn't
• 1:17:32
  think to call my parents.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: But my kids didn't want me alone. So my parents
• 1:17:38
  came up and they spent the night with me. I went,
• 1:17:42
  you know, three o'clock, four o'clock went by ambulance up
• 1:17:45
  to Ogden and they drove up behind us. And I.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: Mean, how was that getting rolled into the ambulance? Was
• 1:17:55
  that surreal? Yeah.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: Like riding in the back of an ambulance and I'm
• 1:18:00
  totally coherent and he's taking my blood pressure every five minutes.
• 1:18:05
  Like my blood pressure kept dropping. Yeah. Like, I ended up...
• 1:18:10
  I mean, we got... And when I got to McKady,
• 1:18:13
  it was not... It was all hands on deck. I
• 1:18:17
  went into this one room, and then within 10 minutes,
• 1:18:20
  I was in this other room getting an art line. So, like,
• 1:18:23
  I had to get, like, a line into my artery
• 1:18:27
  because they had to give me a certain medicine because
• 1:18:29
  my blood pressure was dropping so low from the sepsis.
• 1:18:34
  And so they had to do that. Oh, yeah, that
• 1:18:36
  was not fun.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that doesn't sound right.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: But you just... Right.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: You're not feeling good anyway.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: You're just, well, no, you're just whatever.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: Doesn't matter at this point. And then they just like,
• 1:18:49
  and they had to get. me medicine. The medicine that
• 1:18:52
  they gave me made me go to the, what ICU.
• 1:18:56
  So I had to, so then I went and got the,
• 1:18:59
  and then I went and got the tube in my
• 1:19:02
  tube into my kidney. So then they Like at six o'clock,
• 1:19:06
  I went down to interventional radiology. We did the tube
• 1:19:09
  in the kidney. And when I woke up, I was
• 1:19:10
  in the ICU because the medicine for my blood pressure
• 1:19:15
  requires ICU. So I was there, what, three or four days?
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yep.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Yep. So missed the girls graduation. Yes.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: And so how did it feel having this show up
• 1:19:30
  a second time? I know we've talked about this before,
• 1:19:33
  but what do you want to share about that?
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: I'm pissed.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: I'm just mad. I'm just... Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't
• 1:19:41
  get it. Mm-hmm. I don't... Okay, so then you play
• 1:19:46
  the whole, what did I not learn the first time? Right, right, right, right, right.
• 1:19:50
  What am I not seeing? What am I doing? Like,
• 1:19:52
  how did I... Like, and then you go to the whole,
• 1:19:55
  I caused this on myself. Right. Of course. And you
• 1:19:59
  can't go there. Right. So it's like, okay, so it's just... Right.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: It was... Yeah, it was a blow. It's a blow.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: Just a little.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a gigantic blow. And I, yeah, it was.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Smacked up across the face, like.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: It was. And this time, you know, you had all
• 1:20:19
  adult kids going through it too. And they had their
• 1:20:24
  own feelings about it. They had their own, you know,
• 1:20:29
  frustrations with it and sad with it. And it just
• 1:20:32
  was a little overwhelming.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. I thought it was interesting the things that they
• 1:20:39
  did not want to happen again. They did not want
• 1:20:42
  meals brought in every three times. Like last time we
• 1:20:45
  had meals three times a week. They were little. I mean,
• 1:20:48
  we needed that.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: They did not want that.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: They did not want people coming and doing our yard. Right.
• 1:20:56
  The ward. Like they did not. But I mean.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: They wanted some sense of their own lives.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: And I could respect that. I was like, you know what?
• 1:21:07
  They can always change their mind, but let's just say
• 1:21:10
  what they... Let's just give them what they want right now.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: Let's not decide for them.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: And it was very... Yeah. Like, they both chose not
• 1:21:19
  to move out, so they commuted that first year. Yep.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And Tolan.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: Like... Yeah. Like, he.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: He was living out of state, so complicated things.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And he just... I don't like, I don't know
• 1:21:43
  how to say it. Like we, like there is, like
• 1:21:46
  we have a bond.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: You do.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's because of what we
• 1:21:53
  went through with their dad, but like he, I remember
• 1:22:01
  the first time when I got cancer and him Like
• 1:22:04
  in his room crying. I mean, imagine you have this
• 1:22:08
  dad who's a butthead that you don't get along with.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: And your mom who's safe is sick.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: That's got to mess with you.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: And all like, you know, if any parent, why not
• 1:22:22
  their dad that this is happening to? And instead it's
• 1:22:24
  happening to their mom.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: Who's safe. And he just, I remember him going, I
• 1:22:30
  can't lose you. Right. Right. And I remember looking at
• 1:22:34
  him and I mean, he's 14. I just remember looking
• 1:22:36
  at him and saying, I'm not afraid to die. I
• 1:22:39
  am not afraid. Dying does not scare me at all. Yeah.
• 1:22:43
  But I choose to live and I will fight to
• 1:22:47
  live and be here with you. And he was like, okay,
• 1:22:50
  I will do everything in my power to be here.
• 1:22:52
  And he's like, okay, like that's, he needed to hear that.
• 1:22:55
  And I found out recently from his girlfriend, Allie was
• 1:22:59
  telling me, Because the joke is that he gets me
• 1:23:03
  when I'm old. Like the girls are like, we're not
• 1:23:07
  taking you. Tolan's taking you. So we just joke about it.
• 1:23:10
  And Allie's like, no, you don't understand. When we first
• 1:23:14
  started dating, she's like, we weren't even dating a year.
• 1:23:17
  And he said, I want you to know I will
• 1:23:22
  be taking care of my mom when she's older. And
• 1:23:26
  he's like, if you're not okay with that, then I'm
• 1:23:29
  not going to date you. Like, we're not. And she
• 1:23:32
  was like, he, she's like, he made it very clear
• 1:23:35
  from day one that he is going to take care
• 1:23:38
  of you. And I just was, I didn't know he
• 1:23:41
  felt that way.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: Right. Right.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I think we joke about it
• 1:23:46
  and we do this, but I didn't understand the depth
• 1:23:49
  that that, like me taking care of him the way
• 1:23:54
  I did. with all of like, yeah, like they're my kids.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: It's a special relationship.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a special relationship. Like he just cracks me up.
• 1:24:05
  But so we just joke like, yeah, but he did
• 1:24:09
  not like, he's just funny. Like this, this was just
• 1:24:15
  crap for him. Like, and then like he came into
• 1:24:18
  town in the middle of chemo and And we went
• 1:24:23
  to a Utah football game. Oh, we went to the
• 1:24:25
  Texas Tech game, the Utah Texas Tech game. And so
• 1:24:28
  he came in, and I was bald, and we went
• 1:24:30
  to the game, and we tailgated, and we had mimosas.
• 1:24:36
  It was like I bought this rock pot and made
• 1:24:42
  breakfast casserole.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 4: Oh, fun.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: It was super fun. So we went and tailgated and
• 1:24:47
  did that. And the girls came, and they just sat
• 1:24:49
  in the must seats.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: Anyway, it was fun. We just have this little relationship
• 1:24:54
  over connections, you know? Yeah.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Very close relationship. So did you have to have, you know,
• 1:25:01
  either time you had that one conversation with him about
• 1:25:06
  you were not afraid to die. Did you have to
• 1:25:08
  have that again the second time?
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: No. No.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: Did you feel differently the second time? Were you afraid?
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: Still the same.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No. Death does not scare me.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: Still does not.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No. I don't know why. Like, I just, I
• 1:25:23
  guess there's that one saying, like, if we knew what
• 1:25:26
  was on the other side, we wouldn't be fighting so
• 1:25:29
  hard to be here. Yeah.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: I get that, too. I get that, too. So I don't,
• 1:25:33
  I just, the other side feels so... expansive and amazing
• 1:25:39
  that I'm not afraid of it. Yeah. Like you're not
• 1:25:43
  limited by the worldly gravity and all the time and everything.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: Pressure. Yeah.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a gift, but yeah. So we're not,
• 1:25:53
  so that just, that wasn't ever, death does not scare
• 1:25:57
  me at all. Right. But I choose to live.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: Right. And the relationships are what?
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: Not being there for my kids. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That scares me. Right. Right. Right.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: It scares me for you not to be around for me,
• 1:26:14
  let alone your kids.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: I can only imagine.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And like, and I think that has hit home
• 1:26:25
  more this time around than ever. Yeah. Especially so like
• 1:26:32
  I go through chemo, I go through all that. Everything's
• 1:26:35
  like we do the surgery, we do everything. But like
• 1:26:38
  at my first follow up in March after. So this
• 1:26:42
  last March and I go in and there's the polyps
• 1:26:45
  on my lungs, like the nodules, the nodules in my lungs.
• 1:26:49
  And I came to your house right after. Yeah. And
• 1:26:52
  I remember walking. I remember walking out of the doctor's
• 1:26:57
  office and having the thought, will I see my grandkids?
• 1:27:02
  Will I be here for my grandkids?
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: And that is, like, it's not that I'm afraid.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: It's just, like, I feel.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, my kids have had such a bum stick
• 1:27:18
  with their dad and, you know, everything. It's just, like,
• 1:27:24
  I'm not, like, I just, like, if I'm gone, like,
• 1:27:30
  I don't want them to. without me, you know?
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right, right.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: I don't want them to suffer, but yeah, you know,
• 1:27:38
  we don't have that choice.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: Right. Right.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: And thank goodness the nodules are nothing and right. They've
• 1:27:45
  gone away and it's all good, but it was just,
• 1:27:47
  I just, that feeling of, and I still have that
• 1:27:51
  for sure. I don't know how long I have. Right, right, right, right.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I remember you sharing, you were like, okay, I,
• 1:28:00
  I'm going to go to my last chemo treatment. And
• 1:28:02
  you have the ringing of the bell, like my last treatment.
• 1:28:06
  And you were like, I think I can't ring that bell.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: I can't ring that bell.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: Because the bell rings, that means I'm done. And you
• 1:28:14
  were like, I've been there, done that. That didn't work
• 1:28:17
  on some level.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: And so you did something different. What did you do?
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: I blew an air horn.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: Good job. And you know what? That's one of the
• 1:28:28
  things I admire about you. is that you make things
• 1:28:32
  your own. I mean, it's like you didn't just ring
• 1:28:39
  the bell because that made it easier on everyone else.
• 1:28:41
  You said, this is what's, I need this. You know,
• 1:28:45
  you take into consideration everyone, but you made it your own.
• 1:28:49
  You said, I got to do it my own way.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no way I could ring that bell ever again.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: I rang it that first time, and this, like... I'm like, no, no.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: This time they rated your, it was rated, so you
• 1:29:05
  were stage one the first round.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: Stage one, clear cell the first time. This time, stage three. Yeah.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: That was a weird, that was a hard number to hear. Uh-huh. Yeah.
• 1:29:15
  We were like, uh, gulp.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh. Okay. So, and, okay. Right. Like, it was, yeah.
• 1:29:23
  And the chemo was, I didn't want it, like- I
• 1:29:28
  didn't want to go to Salt Lake again. I didn't
• 1:29:30
  want to be so far away from home. And, and
• 1:29:33
  so I just did it up here, like just in
• 1:29:36
  Layton by my house. And like, you can have one
• 1:29:42
  or two people back there. That's all you're supposed to have.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: I show up and for some reason, I don't know why,
• 1:29:52
  but I wanted my sisters. I wanted people there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:29:56
  And so like, We made bracelets. And like the first night,
• 1:30:01
  my first chemo treatment, my friend Kim showed up and
• 1:30:05
  brought me a drink. And then I remember no one
• 1:30:08
  else was in there because it was so late. And
• 1:30:12
  I don't know why, but we started singing and I
• 1:30:18
  was using the call button for the nurses as my mic.
• 1:30:24
  And I was singing like the Violent Femmes. classic. You
• 1:30:28
  can all just kiss off into the air behind my, yeah,
• 1:30:32
  that's what I was singing. One, one cause you left
• 1:30:35
  me and two, two, two for him. Yeah. Yeah. And
• 1:30:39
  other songs.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, and so, you know, those kinds of things,
• 1:30:42
  but I think people want to say they want to
• 1:30:46
  know how you got through it. And I think, um,
• 1:30:52
  it depends on, I, you know, we've talked about this before.
• 1:30:56
  I think that's a weird question to ask, honestly. You
• 1:31:02
  woke up in the morning and went to bed at night.
• 1:31:04
  I mean, yet just took one step in front of
• 1:31:07
  the other and it's not easy at all. And there
• 1:31:10
  was no, how can I, you know, silver line this
• 1:31:16
  or make this, you know.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: Make this make sense.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: Make meaning out of it is difficult to do. You
• 1:31:24
  had to create. You know, I mean, we're, and it's still,
• 1:31:28
  it's still, there's, I think your family is still, you know,
• 1:31:33
  bringing you a little bit from the.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: Very much so. We're not even, I mean, well, a
• 1:31:39
  year ago I started chemo, August 1st. Like it's not
• 1:31:42
  even been a, like we were in the middle of
• 1:31:45
  it all last year at this time. And it, it's
• 1:31:48
  been a very weird summer, right? Like emotionally. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:31:54
  Just wrapping my head around.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: What just happened almost.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: Yep. That I honestly just did this again. Right. Like,
• 1:32:05
  and I know this time around the recovery and how
• 1:32:09
  long it takes. Right. So chemo ends. This is the stupid.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: Chemo ends and everyone's like, you did it. Right.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: That's the marathon is the chemo. is what it's perceived as,
• 1:32:23
  you know, yep. You just got to get through the
• 1:32:25
  chemo and get the clean bill of health. That's what
• 1:32:28
  we're looking for. Yes.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: And the real healing come like the struggle after was
• 1:32:35
  so like, no, and no one's there for that. Like
• 1:32:38
  everybody showed up during chemo and I had three meals
• 1:32:41
  and I had all this. And then like, I'm so weak.
• 1:32:44
  I could not pull a weed in my yard for
• 1:32:46
  two or three years. I did not have the strength
• 1:32:49
  in my arms to pull a weed. Like, I remember
• 1:32:53
  shoveling my sidewalk and crying as I'm shoveling it because
• 1:32:57
  I had that huge driveway and I just remember out
• 1:32:59
  there crying and praying that someone would come and finish
• 1:33:03
  it for me. Right. And I had to finish it. Like,
• 1:33:06
  and then I had to work. Like, I would have to. Right.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: It was, I remember way over two years before you,
• 1:33:16
  and one day you were like, I can lift this.
• 1:33:18
  You know, and I was like, and it was almost like,
• 1:33:21
  the realization of that you hadn't been able to this
• 1:33:24
  whole time, you know, and I've been like gulp, you know?
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: And so that was extra hard about the second time
• 1:33:30
  as you knew that was coming. Yeah.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: I know. Like, I know I'm in the middle of
• 1:33:35
  that right now. Right. Right.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: Cause everyone thinks you're, you know, you're good to go.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: You did it. And it's like, This is when it hurts.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: The mental gymnastics I have to do every day to
• 1:33:52
  be like, why does, like, my shoulder hurts and my
• 1:33:56
  hip hurts and why does this hurt? And, like, the
• 1:33:59
  chemo I had attacks joints. And so, and you're exhausted.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: Nerves, all of that.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: Nerves, all the nerves and the drugs. Like, all those
• 1:34:11
  pills I took the first time around. Yes, yes. And
• 1:34:16
  this time I didn't take any of it.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: I just used a few alternative medicines. You're loud. Yeah, legally.
• 1:34:27
  Did it make a difference?
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: Did it make a difference? Oh, interesting.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: Like, huge difference. Yeah.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: Because, yeah, I remember the, it just went out of
• 1:34:39
  my head, this medicine for nausea. I had to have that.
• 1:34:44
  And then that makes you so constipated. I've never felt,
• 1:34:48
  I've never been constipated like that.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, I am going to die. I'm
• 1:34:54
  going to die here. And so then they would have
• 1:34:57
  to give you medicine for that. And oh, it was just,
• 1:35:01
  it was.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: Just throwing everything at us. The nausea medication, the steroids.
• 1:35:06
  Then I had the gabapentin and I had tramadol and
• 1:35:09
  then I had the... lorazepam and i mean.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: And the melatonin i remember 20 like they.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: Oh benadryl yeah i mean they were two benadryls to
• 1:35:18
  go to bed yeah yeah i just i remember the
• 1:35:21
  one night calling them because my legs hurt so bad
• 1:35:25
  with the leg pain so the chemo would cause that
• 1:35:29
  leg those leg aches like the nerves and it was just.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: Like a shot of pain oh it just hurts.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: So bad and i remember calling down and it's in
• 1:35:39
  the middle of like, it's like 11, 1130.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: And Huntsman was amazing. And I just called down and
• 1:35:44
  they're like, okay, they had a list of all my
• 1:35:46
  drugs and they're like, take a Benadryl and take a
• 1:35:51
  Xanax because Xanax could help with nerves. I'm like, okay.
• 1:35:55
  So I took those and they're like, then they said,
• 1:35:58
  if you're not asleep within an hour, call us back.
• 1:36:00
  So I call it back and they're like, throw another
• 1:36:02
  Benadryl on there. And I finally was able to fall asleep.
• 1:36:05
  But like, The concoction of pills, I had to take
• 1:36:09
  that first. And I took those for two years. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:13
  I mean, I could, like, it was over two years
• 1:36:17
  of that.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: And so, like, to fall asleep, was it pain, was
• 1:36:20
  it because of the pain to fall asleep?
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you just couldn't, like, you couldn't get comfortable. My
• 1:36:25
  aches would just ache. Like, you just, you'd lay there
• 1:36:29
  and you're just in so much pain.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: And it's still, like, yeah, I just, yeah, now I'm just...
• 1:36:38
  no gummy. And I'm like, I just take a fourth
• 1:36:41
  of a gummy and I, you know, I'm not sleeping great,
• 1:36:45
  but I don't, I'm not taking 12 pills to go
• 1:36:48
  to bed. Right. Right. Right.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: Right. You know, that caused so many things and, and
• 1:36:54
  my kids have been, and I've tapered drastically off of it.
• 1:36:59
  Like I've really done good at not like I have
• 1:37:01
  a nine o'clock rule. Like I can't have anything before nine.
• 1:37:04
  I can't like, I just, I'm really, trying to do
• 1:37:08
  it as natural as possible. And my doctors were so
• 1:37:11
  on board with that. Like they were, yeah, they were
• 1:37:15
  so awesome. Yeah.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: Because some of, I mean, they said some of they're
• 1:37:19
  throwing all this medicine at you the first time with
• 1:37:22
  the idea that we're not going to do that again.
• 1:37:24
  Some of the, some of those medicines, medications, they don't
• 1:37:27
  give it, they're not going to give it to you
• 1:37:29
  again at that dosage. And then if it's not at
• 1:37:32
  the dosage, it's not useful. So that was interesting. this
• 1:37:37
  time around, but this time around, it was interesting to
• 1:37:41
  see how people came out of, um, different areas of
• 1:37:45
  your life and showed up. Um, and I, and I,
• 1:37:50
  I could so many people, you have an impact in
• 1:37:54
  their life. And this time it didn't feel like it was,
• 1:37:58
  we gotta get, we gotta take care of her to
• 1:38:00
  make it go away. It was more like, she means
• 1:38:03
  the world to us. I'd do anything for her.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I really, that's how I felt. Like it
• 1:38:10
  wasn't out of obligation. It was out of love. Everyone's
• 1:38:15
  like stepped up. Like, um, we got to where we
• 1:38:19
  just did, like I'd have, I'm like just dinner. Like
• 1:38:23
  I had chemo on Thursday and then Friday and Saturday
• 1:38:26
  and Sunday I'd have dinner brought in those just three
• 1:38:28
  nights just for me. because my kids like I was
• 1:38:31
  like just for me and then yeah my Stacy would
• 1:38:34
  call me and she's like like I had certain things
• 1:38:38
  I just wanted like I was obsessed with pad thai
• 1:38:43
  chicken pad thai that's right that's right and soup of
• 1:38:46
  the skarnak Couldn't get enough of those two things. And
• 1:38:49
  fiddle honeys. Yes.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: And butterfingers.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: Butterfingers.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: Yes. I've not had a butterfinger since November.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you lost. The first time around, you lost the
• 1:39:01
  Diet Mountain Dew.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: Because it just ruined it for you.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: I can't do it. Yeah.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: Is there anything this time that you lost?
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm done with, like, I can't eat a butterfinger.
• 1:39:10
  And pad thai. I've not had pad thai in almost
• 1:39:13
  a year. But like in Supa Toscana, I could probably
• 1:39:17
  eat Pad Thai. I just, yeah. But I remember like
• 1:39:21
  Stacy would call me and she's like, I'm going to
• 1:39:24
  the Olive Garden. What do you want?
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, or she just texts me like on
• 1:39:29
  a day she knew I'd worked all day. Does she
• 1:39:33
  just be like, I'm door dashing you dinner. What do
• 1:39:35
  you want? And it was just not, would you like dinner?
• 1:39:41
  Can I do this? It's like, I'm door dashing you dinner.
• 1:39:42
  What do you want? What do you want? Like, this
• 1:39:46
  is not up for discussion. And I'm like, thank you. Like, she,
• 1:39:49
  it was like she knew when I needed it. Yeah. Oh, good.
• 1:39:52
  And it was really interesting. It wasn't, like, yeah, it
• 1:39:58
  was interesting.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't, like you say, it wasn't forced like
• 1:40:04
  she wanted to.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You can tell the difference in the energy.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And, like, this young woman girl I had
• 1:40:13
  when I was... She was 12 and I was 24, 23, 22.
• 1:40:17
  Oh my gosh, I was young. And she brought me
• 1:40:22
  dinner every chemo treatment.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: Like Jessica, she is just the sweetest.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: Did you guys keep in contact the whole time? No.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: So it shows you what an impact you made on
• 1:40:38
  her life that long ago, 20 plus years ago.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 20 plus years. And we've gone out to lunch.
• 1:40:44
  Like she is just the sweetest girl. And I just,
• 1:40:49
  I'm grateful. I'm just grateful for the people in my life.
• 1:40:52
  Like I just, it was really, it's interesting.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: It was very different. It was a different energy.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, yeah, it wasn't the first time around.
• 1:41:05
  It felt very panicked. Is that the right word? Like,
• 1:41:11
  Oh my God. And this time it was like, right.
• 1:41:15
  All right.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: It is what it is.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: It is what it is. Like, yeah. I mean, they're
• 1:41:20
  just like been there, done that. All right. Like I
• 1:41:23
  remember going to chemo and just, yeah. Like, we'd show
• 1:41:29
  up with my sisters and then like they'd bring lunch.
• 1:41:31
  So there's, I have four sisters and we'd go and
• 1:41:34
  my mom. So there's six of us out and we
• 1:41:37
  just sit on the tables out in the waiting room
• 1:41:39
  area with my chemo pole. Right. So I'm in the
• 1:41:45
  middle of chemo. Like there's no doubt you, everybody knows
• 1:41:48
  I'm bald. Everyone knows what's going on. And we're sitting
• 1:41:52
  out there. We're playing cards. We're eating like, We just,
• 1:41:58
  I appreciated that chemo was not just sit there and
• 1:42:01
  be miserable.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: It was come, like, become people. Like, it was just, yeah,
• 1:42:08
  it was nice.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: I remember the first time you had to get your
• 1:42:11
  license renewed and you were bald. Like, so you were, like,
• 1:42:14
  kind of bugged. You're like, I have to go get
• 1:42:16
  my license renewed. And I was like, that is the
• 1:42:19
  best thing. I remember thinking, we never did it. But
• 1:42:21
  we're like, we need to go buy a car. Because, like,
• 1:42:24
  could you imagine sitting there at the negotiation table? um,
• 1:42:28
  let's have some, you know, how much can you give
• 1:42:29
  me off? I was like, I'll bring you around.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, we, you know, we talked about going to
• 1:42:34
  Disneyland and you're like, wait, you look too good. Like
• 1:42:38
  we're going to have to like, make you look a
• 1:42:40
  little sicker. Let's go to Disneyland and put you in
• 1:42:43
  a wheelchair and get around. Like, what can we get
• 1:42:46
  out of this? Yeah.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: We had some, we had some fun with that a
• 1:42:50
  little bit. I mean, you have to.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And the grateful, like, Oh, my goodness. These girls
• 1:42:55
  nowadays with grocery deliveries. Right, right, right, right. That made
• 1:43:00
  the world of difference to me this time. Yes. But
• 1:43:03
  I remember the first time through, I would go. So
• 1:43:05
  I'd have chemo on Wednesday. Thursday, I'd go grocery shop
• 1:43:08
  for the weekend because I felt good for about 24 hours.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: And then Thursday night, I'd have to take the kids
• 1:43:15
  to their dad's house.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh. Not five minutes late. I remember driving with you once.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: Oh. he called and he was like, I mean, he was,
• 1:43:24
  they needed to be there between five 30 and six.
• 1:43:26
  It was like five 40 or five 50. And he's like,
• 1:43:28
  are you bringing the kids? And I'm like, we're almost there.
• 1:43:31
  We're about five minutes away. Well, you're late. And I'm like, dude.
• 1:43:35
  And he's like, well, dinner's ready. I guess I'll put
• 1:43:38
  it in the fridge and they'll have to warm it
• 1:43:39
  up when they get here. Whatever. I mean, I'm sitting here,
• 1:43:44
  I'm dying. I need to take a pill. So I'm
• 1:43:47
  driving them and Hauling them, getting them to go to
• 1:43:50
  their dad's, remember?
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: Like rounding them up took forever.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: Because they didn't want to go. And so then I
• 1:43:58
  dropped them off and then they came home and I'm like,
• 1:44:01
  what was for dinner? Hot dogs, chili dogs.
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: Chili dogs.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: Chili dogs. So you're telling me you started chili dogs
• 1:44:10
  before they got there?
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: You threw a can of chili in a pot and
• 1:44:15
  heated a hot dog up in the microwave and you
• 1:44:18
  had to do that?
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: Yes. It was a moment.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: It was like... Chili dogs.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: Here we go. Yeah. Yeah. It was a one... It's
• 1:44:30
  just one more dig.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: And then he was like, I did so much for
• 1:44:35
  you while you had chemo.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: And I was like, Yeah.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: You keep telling me.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: Right. To him, he did.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He did. He took the kids two nights.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: But three nights because the third night was like when
• 1:44:48
  I got my port.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But this time around, like when he said to Tolan,
• 1:44:56
  I'm sorry that your mom is doing this to you
• 1:44:59
  again or putting you through this again. Like Tolan was pissed.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: Like he was that.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: Like he didn't go to his dad's wedding. Right. Right.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: Because he was like. Those are the kind of statements
• 1:45:14
  that make that.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: Well, when you say that and then you say, I
• 1:45:19
  hope the girls know if they need anything, they can't
• 1:45:21
  come to me. Yeah. I'm not. Nope. I'm not here
• 1:45:24
  for them. Right.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that we're here. Yeah. One day at a time. Because.
• 1:45:33
  We can have all the feels. They're all allowed.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, it's been a journey and yeah, it's
• 1:45:42
  been quite a journey and it's not, we're not done.
• 1:45:44
  You're never getting rid of me.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, you can't get rid of me. Okay.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: What do you want to, we're going to do one
• 1:45:50
  card of each body, mind, spirit, which is spiritual body
• 1:45:55
  or soul, which is emotional. So which one do you
• 1:45:56
  want to start with? Body, mind, spirit, soul.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: Let's do bind.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: Mind. Okay.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: That's usually my least favorite.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: We'll see. Okay. I'm going to hold up three cards,
• 1:46:09
  random cards.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: And tell me if you want one, two or three.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: One. One. Okay.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: What is a thought pattern you had to unlearn to
• 1:46:21
  get to where you are now?
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: You're going to laugh.
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: This one was on autopilot. Like I had to verbally
• 1:46:34
  say this one for years.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: After the divorce.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: Just because he says it doesn't mean it's true.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: True.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you remember I would panic every time a text... Yes.
• 1:46:48
  And you were like.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: Because it was so mean.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And you're like, just because he says it doesn't
• 1:46:52
  make it true. Yeah. And that thought, I still use
• 1:46:57
  that to this day. Yeah. Just because someone said it
• 1:47:00
  doesn't mean it's true.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: Doesn't mean it's true.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yep. I can stop. I remember... having to disengage
• 1:47:08
  and like, I would set the timer. You would tell
• 1:47:10
  me what, 20 minutes, half hour, an hour. Like we would,
• 1:47:14
  I would just, I would have to practice out letting
• 1:47:16
  that text and feeling it.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: Because your nervous system's going nuts. You're in threat mode.
• 1:47:25
  And you were threatened.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: And I would just text back and it's like, no.
• 1:47:29
  And like, just because he says it doesn't make, like
• 1:47:32
  when he was calling, like he's turning me into the
• 1:47:34
  police and he's doing this. I'm committing insurance fraud or
• 1:47:39
  whatever he was accusing me of. And you just were like,
• 1:47:41
  all right, just because he says it.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: Doesn't mean it's true. Right.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He would, I mean, he practically threaded threat, like
• 1:47:50
  we're going to go to court and I'm going to
• 1:47:51
  tell on you. And I'd be like, okay. Okay.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: But I was in panic. I was, I was in
• 1:47:58
  full panic mode. Yep.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: For sure. That's how we know there was trauma.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: Your body is having that response.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: And it took a long, like a good, a long
• 1:48:09
  time to break that. But it was, I would set
• 1:48:11
  the timer on the, like he would text and I
• 1:48:14
  wouldn't even read it. I would just set the timer. Yep. Yep.
• 1:48:17
  Then I'd read it and I set the timer. because
• 1:48:20
  I was in that path. Like, yeah, he wanted the hit.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: He wanted my hit of me defending and all of this.
• 1:48:30
  It was that codependency that. Yep.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: The bait. He was baiting you.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I just, so just because he says it
• 1:48:37
  doesn't make it true. Actually, if he said it, it's
• 1:48:39
  a lie.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Probably not. Probably not. Yeah. And good on you for
• 1:48:43
  really doing that because that is, that's the hard work.
• 1:48:47
  That postponement and that sitting in the pain is not
• 1:48:53
  pleasant at all. So good on you for holding that.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: And it's, there's still. Of course. Yeah. It took. But like, gosh,
• 1:49:05
  I've been divorced, what, 12 years? Yeah.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: 2014.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: So 12 years this year. And, um, I, when's the
• 1:49:14
  last time I had contact with him?
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: I think he sent me an email in January to
• 1:49:20
  let me know how much my alimony, he was claiming
• 1:49:22
  of alimony on taxes. That's it.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Like nice. Um, Riley and my girls haven't
• 1:49:30
  like Emory. Yeah. It's been years. Yeah. Yeah. Like he
• 1:49:36
  did therapy. They are going to need a lot of therapy.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: Well, and they've, they've, they've had, I mean, their therapist
• 1:49:42
  helped them.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: Emery.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: Yes. Like when the whole, like, yeah. And she was,
• 1:49:52
  she helped him block. She helped her block him on
• 1:49:54
  her phone. And she was like, I just will never
• 1:49:57
  forget her saying, how does this relationship benefit your life?
• 1:50:03
  How does it bring you joy? How does it support you?
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: You know, what does it cost you to have this relationship?
• 1:50:11
  Is it worth that? And, and then like when everything,
• 1:50:15
  she's like, I think I want to block her, block him.
• 1:50:17
  And the therapist was like, let me help you. But
• 1:50:19
  if you block, if you tell him you're going to
• 1:50:20
  block him, you have to block him. Yeah. You cannot
• 1:50:25
  threaten it and not follow through. Right. Right. And so
• 1:50:28
  she told him I'm blocking you for ABC and D reasons.
• 1:50:34
  And he sent back, she waited till he sent back the,
• 1:50:38
  The text. Right. And then she blocked it immediately. Yeah.
• 1:50:41
  And that was, what, junior year, so three years ago?
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: And she's still.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: To see your girls take their own power and own
• 1:50:52
  their own power has been inspiring to see. They really have.
• 1:50:56
  Not just with their dad. In the world.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: In the world. Like, they are very... They are determined.
• 1:51:04
  I'm so, like... Riley with the architecture program, like she,
• 1:51:10
  she will be 24 and have a master's degree with
• 1:51:12
  a license, a professional license in architecture. She is so driven. Emery,
• 1:51:18
  like she's not sure she's switched her mind of what
• 1:51:21
  she wants to do. Like she's going to go business.
• 1:51:24
  She's not sure what, but she is.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: What did they graduate with? 4. Like they, their GPAs
• 1:51:30
  were insane.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: Almost 4.0. Yeah. Yeah. Like merit scholarships at the U.
• 1:51:36
  They have, yeah, like school.
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: And their grades are good. Yeah, they're just.
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: They have to keep a 3.5.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: Yep. And they, it was, you know, there was a
• 1:51:48
  lot of, they had to kind of go through that same,
• 1:51:51
  almost the same trajectory you did. But because you had
• 1:51:54
  done it, they had a pathway there. And they got there.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: Yep, they did.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: Well, and Riley says that. She's like. She goes, we, like,
• 1:52:06
  as your children, we're all very internally motivated. Like, we
• 1:52:11
  do not need other people to motivate. Like, we... She goes,
• 1:52:15
  I don't... Like, me and Emery, I don't know why,
• 1:52:17
  but she goes, like, I did not have to talk
• 1:52:20
  to them ever about grades in school. Right. Like, and actually,
• 1:52:24
  they didn't feel like I cared. I cared. I wanted
• 1:52:28
  them to do their very best.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: But I was raised in a position where, like... my
• 1:52:34
  very best wasn't enough. And that sounds like my dad
• 1:52:38
  wanted A's. Yeah. Yeah. A's were required. What was your problem?
• 1:52:42
  I mean, I am dyslexic. I have ADHD. Like school
• 1:52:48
  was not easy for me.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: No, no.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: At all. And I, I did my very best and
• 1:52:54
  I tried hard, but I, my older sister, like Christy,
• 1:52:57
  that's your age. Like she's a year older than me.
• 1:53:00
  she was a four, like she was genius. Like she, like.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: She, she fits the mold of school.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: So easy to her and math and this and, you know, and,
• 1:53:10
  and I think it was harder on my parents because
• 1:53:13
  I just didn't fit the mold and they didn't know
• 1:53:17
  what to do with me. Right.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: And back then it was, we cared about what.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: People thought, what it looked like. Yeah. Like it was effort.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: There was no in, you know, there wasn't understanding of,
• 1:53:31
  Of all the stuff that we're barely getting around now,
• 1:53:33
  let alone back then. So, yeah, that was hard.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just remember I felt like I was stupid,
• 1:53:41
  the dumb blonde. I really believed those things about myself.
• 1:53:45
  And I didn't want my kids to ever think that.
• 1:53:48
  And so I didn't want grades to feel like they
• 1:53:52
  were more important than them. And so I just was like, look,
• 1:53:56
  you do your best. That's all I ask. Yeah. And
• 1:53:59
  missing assignments is not your best.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: Like, and they knew that, like, I mean, that was
• 1:54:04
  all I was missing assignments. Isn't your best. So right.
• 1:54:07
  Step it up. Like, let's do your best, but I
• 1:54:10
  don't care what the grade is. I didn't even look.
• 1:54:11
  I mean, I remember dreading report cards, you know? Right.
• 1:54:17
  Let's be honest. I got grounded for a whole semester,
• 1:54:20
  a whole term. Right. Cause I got a one nine seven. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: Well, and I didn't break the leafs. Like I, I have,
• 1:54:29
  I've gone back to that moment so many times. Remember
• 1:54:32
  in so many... Like that 13-year-old girl by the tree
• 1:54:35
  that I have left. Like that, I've done a lot.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: Of healing over that moment.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 2: And I get it. But I just didn't ever want
• 1:54:42
  to have that with my kids. And so they kind
• 1:54:46
  of felt like I didn't care about school. And I said,
• 1:54:48
  I cared. I just didn't want you guys to think
• 1:54:50
  it was the only thing that mattered. You are more
• 1:54:52
  than your grade.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: You're more than school. Like you can be anything... You know,
• 1:54:58
  and I look, I look at my sisters, like I have,
• 1:55:01
  my two sisters are very analytical and like they went
• 1:55:06
  to college, they got degrees, like computer science. I mean, right.
• 1:55:11
  But I didn't, I went to beauty school and did that.
• 1:55:16
  I am the only one of my sisters who've worked
• 1:55:20
  their whole life. Right. Like I have a career. And
• 1:55:25
  something I love, I was talking about that with my
• 1:55:27
  mom this morning and she goes, when you went to
• 1:55:30
  beauty school in high school, did you think like this
• 1:55:35
  is where you would be?
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: 30 years later. And I'm like, I didn't never, I didn't,
• 1:55:40
  I didn't think, I didn't realize, I didn't realize how
• 1:55:43
  much I really love it.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And depend on it.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't. Yes.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: And that's the other thing, right? My girls will never,
• 1:55:52
  they want to work. because they want to be able
• 1:55:56
  to take, if something ever happened, they, they, they've had
• 1:55:59
  an example of a mom working that they're like, but
• 1:56:02
  they're both very cautious about jobs they can do with
• 1:56:05
  the family. Yeah.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Riley's like, I could work, I can be an
• 1:56:08
  architect and work from home or go into the office
• 1:56:10
  or I can do these things. And Emery's like, I
• 1:56:13
  could do, you know, this or that, or, you know,
• 1:56:16
  it's just, and it's cute. It's just fun. It's cute.
• 1:56:19
  Like she's thinking doing maybe like, um, getting her commercial,
• 1:56:25
  not commercial, real estate development master's. Oh, yeah.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: Emery is.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: And so Tolan is like, I'm going to start a
• 1:56:32
  GC company. Uh-huh. And Emery's like, Riley's like, I'll be
• 1:56:36
  your architect. And then Emery's like, I'll go, I'll be the,
• 1:56:39
  I'll be the.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: Real estate agent. And I'm like, okay. Let's go. They
• 1:56:45
  want to have a compound company.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: With my house in the middle. It's funny.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, so body, spirit, or soul. Which one do you
• 1:56:52
  want now?
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: Let's do spirit.
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: Spirit, okay. All right.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: Three cards. Three.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: Three?
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: Three, okay. How do you explain the unseen to someone
• 1:57:10
  who only trusts what they can prove? Whoa.
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not good at that one because I have always
• 1:57:21
  been a what, like, I think that you helped me
• 1:57:25
  with this. Like, with the what ifs. Yeah, yeah. Like,
• 1:57:27
  what if it's just this? Like, isn't that beautiful enough
• 1:57:31
  in itself? Like, why isn't, like, this enough? Right. Right. Like, just, like,
• 1:57:39
  different situations, you know? Like, with religion, like, why isn't
• 1:57:43
  this enough? Like, If it's just like, all right, we'll
• 1:57:48
  bring like Mormonism into it. Like let's say that like
• 1:57:55
  being baptized, like I don't get like the belief that
• 1:58:00
  you have to be baptized or you have, like what
• 1:58:03
  if it's just a great place to, what if the
• 1:58:07
  whole purpose of the church is to bring community together?
• 1:58:10
  be there for one another? And that's it. Yeah.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: You know, what if the ritual is beautiful in that moment? Yes. Like,
• 1:58:18
  what if that moment, it was so beautiful and that was,
• 1:58:22
  you know, and that was like so beautiful to have
• 1:58:26
  that ritual for that moment.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: Not because, it's going to save you down the line.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: Right. Because you better or else like, yeah, it's enough
• 1:58:35
  to just be beautiful. Yeah.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: So we miss the beauty of the moment.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: And like, because like, I'll have, I try to have,
• 1:58:46
  so my sisters don't love to have deep conversations with me.
• 1:58:51
  I shouldn't say like, like that's one of the things
• 1:58:54
  I love. Like what talking with you, like we have
• 1:58:58
  these conversations and it's.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: Like, but.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: Like, what if this, could it possibly be? And it's
• 1:59:08
  not that it has to be right or wrong.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: It's just exploring a thought. Yes.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: Yes. And when I do that with my family, it's
• 1:59:18
  always like, but the church says this.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: Yes. It's uncomfortable.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 2: Like, no.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: Right. Right.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to argue. I'm not arguing.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, what if, this is this.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: This is spirituality it's the exploration yeah it's the.
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 4: Unseen yeah so that it's the not knowing yeah so
• 1:59:40
  it's the not knowing and i'm really i have no
• 1:59:44
  problem living in the world of.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 5: No proof right right right right right like that right
• 1:59:49
  i do not have to yeah in the life you've
• 1:59:52
  lived you'd have to like because if we try to
• 1:59:56
  make sense and proof of what.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: Every like It goes down the toilet really fast.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: I have these four sisters. They're all still married. They all, like,
• 2:00:07
  have it together. Yeah. So, you know what I mean? Like,
• 2:00:13
  and they all, but none of them have had, like,
• 2:00:18
  public trials like mine.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't, and they, the thing I hate, I
• 2:00:27
  shouldn't say hate. The thing that drives me crazy is
• 2:00:32
  when people say, you are just so strong. I couldn't
• 2:00:37
  do that. Right.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: Yep. I'm right there with you.
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, you would.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm not that strong.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: It's not like you have a choice.
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: Right. Like, you put on your big girl panties and
• 2:00:50
  you deal with it. Right. You don't have a choice.
• 2:00:52
  You pull up your bootstraps and you go. Like, what
• 2:00:55
  else are you going to do?
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't feel like a compliment.
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: Right. No, it's not a compliment. It does not feel
• 2:01:00
  like a.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 3: Compliment.
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's just, ugh.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: It's just something, it's like, yeah, it's not, it's like, it's.
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: Like you poor thing. And there's almost this thing where, yeah,
• 2:01:11
  or like, well, you know, you must be strong because
• 2:01:14
  heaven gave this to you. And it's like, no.
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: I can't.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: Uh-uh. Nope. That had to go away quickly because it
• 2:01:23
  was like, yeah, I can't. That doesn't, that math does
• 2:01:27
  not work.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 2: Does not add up.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: That doesn't work.
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: So if that's, and if I'm wrong, okay. But this
• 2:01:34
  is what keeps me.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: This is what keeps me going at this.
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: Point in my life. I think about like going through
• 2:01:40
  like infertility and all of that. Like I can look
• 2:01:44
  back on those years. Right. Like those years were probably
• 2:01:55
  darker than, cancer years like harder yeah and I realize
• 2:02:06
  that I remember like saying to my to my ex
• 2:02:11
  my husband at the time was like I was like
• 2:02:14
  if you had married any I'm so sorry you got
• 2:02:15
  stuck with me if you'd married anyone else you could
• 2:02:17
  have all the children you wanted and so I really
• 2:02:20
  did feel like the second class citizen in our marriage
• 2:02:23
  and that it was my fault and that right like
• 2:02:27
  you know, I was holding him back on so many things.
• 2:02:30
  And so, I mean, I can look back and see
• 2:02:33
  a ton of red flags and all of that, but
• 2:02:36
  I am so grateful for him and the lessons that
• 2:02:42
  like he allowed, like he hurt me in a way
• 2:02:49
  that I was able to grow and become who I am.
• 2:02:52
  And I would never have looked like, into the energy
• 2:02:57
  world or into any of that, if I had not
• 2:03:00
  been beaten down, I wasn't as like, if he hadn't
• 2:03:06
  done what he did to me, like, I know that
• 2:03:08
  sounds crazy to say, but I'm so grateful for it
• 2:03:11
  because I wouldn't be who I am. Right.
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: And I know as a, as a witness, you, you,
• 2:03:17
  you haven't talked yourself into that gratitude. You have healed
• 2:03:21
  your way there. Like you have felt you have felt
• 2:03:24
  all the feels to end in that place. You didn't say,
• 2:03:28
  I need to be grateful. You know, you, that arrived
• 2:03:33
  from all the work that you've done on yourself and
• 2:03:35
  all the, the questions you allowed yourself to ask yourself
• 2:03:39
  and the responsibility you took maybe even to the extreme
• 2:03:44
  and then knew I get to take back that a
• 2:03:46
  little bit. And you really found you, you did the journey.
• 2:03:49
  You did the journey.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like it's, Well, and I can honestly say to
• 2:03:53
  my kids, I remember I think I would say it
• 2:03:56
  to them, but I mean it like I will forever
• 2:04:01
  love their father. Yeah. Yeah. Because he is their dad. Right.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: He is part of them and they are amazing and
• 2:04:10
  beautiful and strong and fantastic. Like the coolest people in
• 2:04:15
  the world. Yeah. Yeah. And they wouldn't be that without
• 2:04:18
  both of us. And so I will always love him
• 2:04:21
  for that. I'm not in love with the man. I
• 2:04:23
  don't like him. I don't want to be around him.
• 2:04:27
  But I can hold that space of gratitude for what
• 2:04:30
  we created together. And I am so grateful for that.
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: And the difficulty at the same time. Like you get
• 2:04:35
  to have it all. You don't have to narrow it down.
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: To one or the other. I don't want to live
• 2:04:40
  with him. I don't want to be around him. I
• 2:04:42
  have no desire to I mean, if I see him,
• 2:04:45
  I can be cordial.
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: I can be nice. Right, right, right, right.
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: He doesn't provoke anything in me anymore. Like, I remember
• 2:04:55
  when I first seen him, I'd be like, I'd get
• 2:04:58
  all those, the feels and this. Now I'm just like.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: That's right. And that's why I'm saying as a witness,
• 2:05:05
  it wasn't because you forced yourself to do that. You
• 2:05:10
  did the healing work. to get your nervous system in
• 2:05:13
  a place where it didn't need to respond that way anymore.
• 2:05:16
  And you, you built confidence in yourself and you, you,
• 2:05:22
  you tried and failed and tried again and succeeded. And,
• 2:05:27
  and all of that was, you know, you building your
• 2:05:30
  own path and that's, it's clear, it's clear that you've
• 2:05:35
  done that journey.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. It's interesting to like look back at
• 2:05:41
  it and go, Yeah. I remember not feeling this way. Right. Right.
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: Right. For sure.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 2: You know, just once we got through the divorce, then
• 2:05:50
  it was just like, oh my goodness, this crazy crap
• 2:05:53
  he did. Right. Right. Like just, and then it was
• 2:05:56
  just worrying about the kids. Like, are they safe? Are
• 2:05:58
  they this?
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: But walking into your own home and feeling safe there
• 2:06:03
  was almost immediate. Like it was like a big difference.
• 2:06:07
  He moved out and it was like, like, Big difference.
• 2:06:12
  Do you remember Sagi in the house? Yes.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 2: And the rooms that we fought the most in smelled
• 2:06:20
  so bad. Yep. Because we fought in our closet, in
• 2:06:25
  our bathroom, and then his office. And those two rooms
• 2:06:32
  smelled so bad.
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: I just remember Sagi in it and going, wow.
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah, I was sage. I
• 2:06:41
  believed in sage because we did it at my house too.
• 2:06:43
  And it was like, you could smell different in different rooms.
• 2:06:48
  And you were like, oh my, okay. Energy doesn't necessarily
• 2:06:54
  disappear all the way.
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: Nope.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: Just because the time has passed. Yeah.
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then I put crystals. I put rose quartz
• 2:07:02
  by my front door. Like up until even when I moved,
• 2:07:05
  like I don't even know if I took it down
• 2:07:07
  when I moved. Yeah. But then I put shields up
• 2:07:10
  around my doors, and I remember, like, I made it
• 2:07:16
  so no one who, anybody who did not have the
• 2:07:19
  highest good for my family was not welcome in my home.
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yep.
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: And when Ace died, and I waited till he came
• 2:07:29
  back into town so he could say goodbye to the dog,
• 2:07:33
  he didn't come in the house. He sat on the
• 2:07:35
  back porch. Mm-hmm. like, cause he knew he couldn't come
• 2:07:39
  into my home. Yep. Yep. Yep.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah. That was pretty powerful. Um, and I remember
• 2:07:46
  you doing hair, you lost some clients even at that time.
• 2:07:50
  And we were, we were like, okay, that just happened really.
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: And that's okay. Yeah. It was so, but I was like,
• 2:07:58
  and I still like, and then when I built this
• 2:08:00
  house and like, we put words all over the walls
• 2:08:07
  of this house. So like everything we want to experience
• 2:08:11
  and feel in this home, we, we put on the
• 2:08:13
  walls and we put rose quartz in the walls and
• 2:08:15
  I have, um, black tourmaline in the foundation and in
• 2:08:20
  the front door I have carnelian and like I just
• 2:08:23
  I like had purpose behind it you know like this
• 2:08:27
  is a sanctuary this is a safe place yes and
• 2:08:30
  I wanted to create.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: That and I think you have you can it's palatable
• 2:08:35
  when you walk in your door that there's there's a
• 2:08:38
  calmness and a and a welcome and home.
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah totally like I hope I hope people feel
• 2:08:44
  that but it was just very like I mean, I
• 2:08:47
  just remember having, handing the girl Sharpies and we went
• 2:08:51
  and wrote all over the wood in the house. Like
• 2:08:54
  if you, like everywhere, like they went to their rooms and,
• 2:08:59
  you know, write down what you want to experience. You know,
• 2:09:02
  what do you want to feel in this house? I
• 2:09:04
  want connection. I want community. I want togetherness. I want love.
• 2:09:08
  I want beauty. I want, you know, just everything. Yeah.
• 2:09:12
  I love that.
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: I think when you have your construction company, you guys
• 2:09:17
  have with you take the families to the place and
• 2:09:21
  do that.
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 2: I think that would be special. That'd be so fun. Like,
• 2:09:25
  and when they, when they broke ground of this house,
• 2:09:28
  I came in open sacred space. Like I like flat
• 2:09:33
  out to the mouth, like North, South, East, West, like the,
• 2:09:39
  all my relations was healing. It was like, I just
• 2:09:46
  opened up the sacred ground. Like it was just, this
• 2:09:48
  is a sacred space for us. Yep.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: That's so special. That is so special. Okay. Body or soul?
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: Let's do body. Body. And we're going to do number two.
• 2:09:59
  Submit a card.
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: We're going to do number two. Okay. Number two. Okay.
• 2:10:07
  What does your body do when it feels truly safe?
• 2:10:11
  What does your body do when it feels truly safe?
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 2: Well, it like relaxes, like, you know, I get that calmness. Yep.
• 2:10:28
  I don't know, like, you know how I like that tense,
• 2:10:30
  like in your jaw? Uh-huh, uh-huh. And when that goes down,
• 2:10:35
  like when that's away, you know, you just feel that
• 2:10:40
  my body just relaxes.
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you say that because, you know,
• 2:10:46
  here we've been friends, close, close friends forever. a long
• 2:10:49
  time over a decade now. And, and, and all the
• 2:10:54
  stuff that you've been through, you were always had access
• 2:10:58
  to that piece of yourself that could calm. You always
• 2:11:02
  had access, you know, I mean, maybe like all of
• 2:11:05
  us in the moment, but you taught me how to
• 2:11:10
  relax your body and to feel peace in your body.
• 2:11:13
  You really did. You really did. I mean, I, you
• 2:11:15
  honestly did. I remember getting out the, emotions book for
• 2:11:20
  the essential oils. And you're like, we just do this.
• 2:11:23
  And I just, I needed someone that just, because you
• 2:11:27
  didn't come at it from like this lack or like
• 2:11:30
  this place of like, we need this. It was more
• 2:11:34
  like play.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's just fun.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: It's more like let's fun.
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: It was fun. And that was like, okay, I can
• 2:11:40
  do that. And I remember we were looking at the
• 2:11:43
  book and thinking how the essential oils fit with the
• 2:11:45
  emotions and thinking, that makes sense to me. And that,
• 2:11:51
  that was, there was like, that's hopeful for me. And
• 2:11:55
  I remember going home and talking to money about it.
• 2:11:57
  And funny thing is you can find on his YouTube channel.
• 2:11:59
  He has created a bunch of videos about the emotions
• 2:12:03
  attached to, um, yeah, I need to put them in
• 2:12:07
  the library. I've asked him, I said, I said a
• 2:12:10
  couple of times, I'm like, I need to get those.
• 2:12:11
  And he was like, I'll find him somewhere. But, um, here,
• 2:12:14
  this is this middle-aged man talking about, emotions and what
• 2:12:19
  essential oils can support those and it was just it's
• 2:12:22
  like this huge full circle moment because I didn't know
• 2:12:25
  in that moment I wasn't certain in that moment by
• 2:12:29
  any means that everything was going to be okay but
• 2:12:32
  at the same time when I see those videos of
• 2:12:35
  him it was like there's some remembrance there was something
• 2:12:38
  that ping ponged those two experiences and I could feel
• 2:12:43
  it in that moment didn't know quite what it was
• 2:12:46
  but it was like this is something happening here. This
• 2:12:49
  is important. Put a pin in this, like this memory,
• 2:12:54
  take a picture. Cause it was interesting.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Well, and like, for me, the oils, essential oils
• 2:13:00
  work much more emotional than like physical needs. Like I love,
• 2:13:05
  don't get me wrong, deep glue and this and that,
• 2:13:09
  clove on this and this. But as far as like ingesting,
• 2:13:12
  like I am all about the emotional need of the oil.
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 1: Yep. They do it. They support so much.
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: They support.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And even when you're like, I don't know what
• 2:13:24
  I'm feeling, you can pick an oil and be like,
• 2:13:26
  and read what it's about and say, oh, yeah, that's
• 2:13:28
  exactly what I'm feeling. It becomes a tool.
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: Yes. That's what I love. Yeah.
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: So, yeah.
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: Okay. So, let's see.
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 2: Okay. So, we're going to go. Which card are we
• 2:13:39
  going to go? One.
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: Okay. So one, two, three, one.
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: One. Okay.
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: All right. This is a great question for you. What
• 2:13:50
  is the difference between forgiveness and simply moving on? And
• 2:13:55
  you can have all the good and bad feels you
• 2:13:57
  want about that question.
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: What's funny is the first thing I thought of was
• 2:14:03
  forgiveness is more than saying you're sorry. Do you know
• 2:14:08
  what that's from? No. No. Have you seen Just Friends
• 2:14:13
  with Ryan Reynolds?
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, yes, yes, yes.
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 2: And Anna Faris, and she's this, like, singer, and it's, like,
• 2:14:20
  a terrible song. But she's like, forgiveness is more than
• 2:14:24
  saying you're sorry. I just watched that the other night.
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 2: All right, so, like, what was the question again? All
• 2:14:36
  I can think of is forgiveness.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me find it. What is the difference
• 2:14:41
  between forgiveness and simply moving on?
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 2: Well, forgiveness. Okay. So moving on is just, you're just done.
• 2:14:54
  Like to me, you're just, all right. That situation, like
• 2:14:59
  that's done.
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: Right. Like a white knuckle kind of thing.
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. White knuckle. Like you're just, you're not going to go,
• 2:15:05
  you're just not going to put yourself in that situation.
• 2:15:08
  You're not going to do that anymore. You're done. But
• 2:15:10
  forgiveness with someone is understanding, well, I don't believe that
• 2:15:18
  anybody truly wants to hurt someone else. Right, right, right, right.
• 2:15:22
  So if someone offends me or, you know, it's like, okay,
• 2:15:26
  but what are they going through? What are they experiencing?
• 2:15:30
  I haven't walked a day in their shoes to understand
• 2:15:34
  what they've been through to judge where they're coming from.
• 2:15:37
  So I'm just going to assume that everyone is giving
• 2:15:40
  me the best that they have in that moment. And
• 2:15:43
  sometimes that sucks and it's not enough, but I can
• 2:15:48
  honor that's their best.
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's where the complexity is helpful because it's like, okay,
• 2:15:55
  I can own the feelings I'm having of hurt or
• 2:15:57
  whatever and recognize that there's more to the story. That's
• 2:16:02
  where that muscle gets tested and used quite a bit.
• 2:16:06
  And I love money has this, he looked up the
• 2:16:09
  root word of like forgiveness, you know, and it's kind
• 2:16:12
  of like, it was really about a debt, you know,
• 2:16:15
  kind of a debt. And it, so it's kind of like,
• 2:16:17
  all right, you're not going to be able to pay
• 2:16:19
  this loan. I forgive you of that loan. And we're
• 2:16:23
  just going to part ways and, you know, see you
• 2:16:27
  later kind of a thing. And, and it's like, you know, um,
• 2:16:31
  that's the thing when I said, I feel like I,
• 2:16:33
  we talked about this already. It's like you, you, Forgiveness
• 2:16:36
  was the journey. You went on the journey. And it's
• 2:16:39
  clear you've been on a journey. And I don't know
• 2:16:41
  if everybody would call it forgiveness. But it was very
• 2:16:44
  much different than moving on. And that forgiveness of like,
• 2:16:47
  you are you. I'm me. I'm going to be me.
• 2:16:51
  And I accept you are who you are. And that's
• 2:16:55
  not for me.
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I can have more. I don't... Just because...
• 2:17:04
  All right. We'll go with like my ex's situation. Like
• 2:17:06
  just because the, so just because he is like he is.
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 2: And he's not going to change. And that's fine. I don't,
• 2:17:16
  I don't really care anymore. But like when we were married,
• 2:17:19
  I wanted him to just, you know. Right. But he
• 2:17:21
  couldn't accept it. Right. Like he couldn't accept my love unconditionally. Yep. Yep. Nope.
• 2:17:28
  And I did. I, I truly loved him unconditionally and
• 2:17:32
  I would have done anything for him. And, and you did,
• 2:17:35
  I did do so much. Yeah. But it's not my
• 2:17:39
  job to like, he has to love himself. Like he
• 2:17:43
  has to, Like, that's his forgiveness. Like, he has to
• 2:17:47
  do that, not me.
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 2: And I love myself enough to not be in that situation. Yep. Like,
• 2:17:56
  I don't have to... Like, I don't have to put
• 2:17:59
  up with that. Right.
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 1: And I would say... Yeah, I think he's moved on
• 2:18:05
  and you've gone the journey of forgiveness.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: Yes. He's definitely... Like he's definitely not. No. So he's
• 2:18:14
  just angry and bitter. And I'm like, I just, yeah,
• 2:18:18
  I want to live my life. I just want to. Yeah.
• 2:18:22
  Like it's too.
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: You're precious.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Just precious. And like, you know, everyone's doing the
• 2:18:30
  best they can.
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 2: And we all, everybody has crap that's been handed to them. Right.
• 2:18:37
  Everybody is going to go through that refiner's fire. Yep.
• 2:18:40
  It's the choice of how are you going to show up?
• 2:18:43
  Are you going to get bitter? Are you going to
• 2:18:44
  get angry? Or are you going to look and go, okay,
• 2:18:48
  how can this serve me? Or how can I get
• 2:18:51
  through this in a way that doesn't destroy who I am? Right.
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: And I think a big part of what we have
• 2:18:59
  done together is in that we haven't skipped the step
• 2:19:03
  of this hurts.
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 2: Hurts. This sucks.
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 1: That's the step that we, yeah, this, I don't like this.
• 2:19:09
  I wish this wasn't true. that is a step that
• 2:19:12
  we have to move through to get to that, you know,
• 2:19:16
  to feel it.
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 2: And, um, and we feel it. And I have like,
• 2:19:25
  I have cried many tears and I have laid on
• 2:19:29
  my bed.
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: Pleading for things to be different or change. Yep. Ditto.
• 2:19:36
  Like I can't do this anymore, you know? And it's like, okay,
• 2:19:42
  like it's, it's, it seems like when those moments have happened,
• 2:19:48
  it seems like there's been a reprieve. Something's changed. Like
• 2:19:52
  someone shows up or like I get, I hear a
• 2:19:56
  song or.
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 1: Or you get it out. You feel it to the
• 2:19:59
  end of the emotion.
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, emotions by definition shift and move. And so
• 2:20:05
  at the very least you ride the wave.
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: It changes.
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 2: It shifts.
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: It shifts. But then the miracle, yeah, and then on
• 2:20:12
  top of that, when a miracle shows up in the door,
• 2:20:15
  the song, the door, you know, the docks or whatever,
• 2:20:18
  you know, that's... But.
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 2: Like you said, but what about when those don't come?
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 2: And you still just sit in it.
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 2: You know? Like you just, there's like....
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 1: And we've done that.
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like no one's going to come rescue you. Right.
• 2:20:37
  Your job is to... not rescue yourself, but take care
• 2:20:43
  of yourself.
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: Like what do you need?
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 1: And then believe yourself.
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like if I, and that's one thing I've gotten
• 2:20:51
  better at, like is just listening to, okay, this is
• 2:20:56
  what I can do right now. Right. Like, especially like
• 2:20:59
  after chemo, like coming out and I can only do
• 2:21:02
  so much. I cannot. Right.
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 1: That's just a fact.
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: The, physically can not do what I did a year ago,
• 2:21:11
  two years ago. I, and I know that's a three
• 2:21:15
  to five year process. I understand that I am going
• 2:21:18
  to be crap for a while. I understand that. And
• 2:21:22
  I'm okay with it.
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 2: But I have compassion for myself and go, okay, this
• 2:21:28
  is just a moment. This is just today. Or, you know, I,
• 2:21:34
  you know, I can't, book my days as tight as
• 2:21:36
  I used to. I can't do as much as I like,
• 2:21:39
  I can't work a 12 hour or 11 hour day anymore.
• 2:21:41
  I physically cannot without, I mean, I would do that
• 2:21:45
  without a lunch. I would just, I couldn't, I can't
• 2:21:49
  do that. And that's okay. I'm okay with that. Like I'm,
• 2:21:53
  I can honor that and it's just a moment and
• 2:21:55
  you know what? It's going to be okay. Yeah. It's good.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: It's good. And you're not saying no to all of
• 2:22:02
  us that love you doing our hair. You're just saying
• 2:22:05
  not yet.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not even saying no. I'm just saying, okay,
• 2:22:10
  we can just do it the next day.
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is when I'm available.
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 2: I'm setting my boundaries with these are the hours I'm working.
• 2:22:17
  And then as I can and have the energy to
• 2:22:23
  do more, then I can put someone in there. I
• 2:22:26
  don't have to. I don't. feel that obligation, I can
• 2:22:32
  say no. Where before I would be like, oh, no, no, no.
• 2:22:35
  It's like, no, I don't, I don't work Fridays anymore
• 2:22:40
  after chemo. I just don't work Fridays, but I do
• 2:22:42
  work a Friday every six weeks.
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 1: Yep. There you go.
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 2: Cause I have one client that needs a Friday. So
• 2:22:47
  every six weeks I work a Friday and like, if
• 2:22:51
  that works, if someone needs to come in early for
• 2:22:54
  a wedding, I can do that. Like, I'm not, like,
• 2:22:58
  I'm not so rigid. That's the thing I love about, like,
• 2:23:03
  my job is I can show up when I can
• 2:23:09
  for people.
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you sure do.
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 2: You know, like, I don't, and it's not, and it doesn't,
• 2:23:16
  it doesn't take from me.
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 2: It feels me.
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a feeling of, like, I, like, when I, like,
• 2:23:25
  went and did a bride's hair and it's, like, I
• 2:23:27
  don't feel... Like, like, like I don't, I don't ever
• 2:23:33
  feel like it's taking from me. I really, it, it,
• 2:23:36
  I just, I feel like I can give like, that
• 2:23:39
  is so rewarding when you like, I love that. Especially
• 2:23:45
  like these teenage girls and they're so beautiful and so amazing.
• 2:23:50
  And if you can, if I can just help them
• 2:23:53
  see that or feel that for a moment of how
• 2:23:56
  amazing they are. Yeah. That's all I want. I love that.
• 2:24:01
  You know, it's just them to be seen, them to
• 2:24:04
  feel seen and appreciated and loved and, you know, and beautiful.
• 2:24:09
  Like when you can see that in their eyes and
• 2:24:10
  they can just, like, it's just, it's amazing. I love that.
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 1: I love that too. Well, it's your turn.
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 1: So wholeness, tell me what you.
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 1: Your definition of wholeness or what that means to you or.
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 2: What that means to me. Mm-hmm. Wholeness. You know, when
• 2:24:35
  I think of wholeness, there's like moments that come to
• 2:24:39
  my mind. Sitting in like my chair in my backyard
• 2:24:45
  and just in the morning and that sun coming in
• 2:24:49
  on me and I just feel whole. Like it's just rejuvenating.
• 2:24:59
  You know, so wholeness is like rejuvenating. It's very, and
• 2:25:03
  it's never ending. You know, like you're constantly, you always,
• 2:25:11
  the circle, it keeps going, you know? I mean, another
• 2:25:16
  moment I think of is when I had chemo the
• 2:25:18
  first time and I was super constipated. And I remember...
• 2:25:25
  With all the drugs, I would get so bad and
• 2:25:28
  I would do Reiki on myself. And I would just
• 2:25:31
  like picture this ball of light and I would swallow
• 2:25:35
  it and I would just work it through my system. Oh, wow.
• 2:25:39
  And then I would poop.
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 2: Anyway, I would work it through. Yeah, literally. I mean,
• 2:25:46
  I would lay there and it wasn't... But that's wholeness,
• 2:25:50
  like taking care of yourself and figuring... you know, just
• 2:25:55
  being aware of where, you know, your blind spots are
• 2:26:01
  and where you need to go. Yeah. I don't know.
• 2:26:06
  I like, I am so grateful for the journey that
• 2:26:10
  I've been on. Like my world is so much more
• 2:26:14
  expansive and so much more whole than it was ever before.
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 1: Before you go, if this episode resonated with you and
• 2:26:25
  you're craving a place to go deeper, I want to
• 2:26:27
  invite you into the Wholeness Library. It is our membership
• 2:26:31
  community where we do this work together. Resources, support, and
• 2:26:35
  a space where we don't have to figure things out alone.
• 2:26:38
  You can find a link in the show notes, and
• 2:26:40
  I'd love to see you there.