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Murdaugh Murders: Defense Claims Two Shooters · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Hello everyone, I'm Nancy Grace
0:13
Speaker 1: here with Fox Nation and we are just outside the
0:17
Speaker 1: Murdog murder trial courthouse. It's happening right behind us. It's
0:21
Speaker 1: been quite a day in the courtroom this morning. Let
0:26
Speaker 1: me tell you what's been happening so far. It took
0:30
Speaker 1: the defense a long time to get started. They were
0:35
Speaker 1: cross examining a crime scene analyst. She was really good
0:40
Speaker 1: on the stay, Melinda Worley. Now we met her for
0:44
Speaker 1: the first time. Last week. The state had her up
0:46
Speaker 1: on direct examination. The cross examination this morning. It was
0:51
Speaker 1: Dick harpoot Lean at his best. But can I tell
0:54
Speaker 1: you he really had the gum and the works. He
0:59
Speaker 1: did not have all of his photos and his demonstrative
1:02
Speaker 1: evidence ready. There was a lot of shuffling around in
1:06
Speaker 1: the courtroom, long delays. The judge finally said, everybody, let's
1:13
Speaker 1: take a break so the defense can get it together.
1:15
Speaker 1: The jury left the courtroom. The jury came back in
1:18
Speaker 1: the courtroom. There was more bumbling around, but finally Harputlin
1:24
Speaker 1: made his point, and his point is wait for it.
1:29
Speaker 1: Could there have been two shooters based on the trajectory
1:36
Speaker 1: path of the bullets and think about this. Think about
1:41
Speaker 1: having a ball of styrofoam, and you take a knitting
1:47
Speaker 1: a knitting needle and you stab it into the styrofoam ball.
1:52
Speaker 1: That needle would be the trajectory path of the bullet aiming. Okay,
2:00
Speaker 1: and Hartpoolian made a really good argument about that. Thank
2:05
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation. In
2:08
Speaker 1: series Sex one eleven, I want to introduce to you,
2:10
Speaker 1: my guests. I'm going to take him one at a time. First,
2:13
Speaker 1: I want to go to Robert Crispin, private investigator former
2:18
Speaker 1: d EA Miami Field Division now is at Crispin Special Investigations.
2:23
Speaker 1: For those of you who just joining us, We're live
2:25
Speaker 1: outside the Murdoid Courthouse and I've learned a lot this morning.
2:30
Speaker 1: Robert Crispin, please try and explain in simple terms what
2:36
Speaker 1: Hartpoolian is up to in the courtroom smoking mirrors. He's
2:41
Speaker 1: trying to put a bunch of smoking mirrors up to
2:43
Speaker 1: the jury to detract them from the truth. What he's
2:47
Speaker 1: talking about is the flight rod that the investigators have
2:51
Speaker 1: put into the hole where the trajectory went. They're talking
2:56
Speaker 1: about the dog cage. So they're saying now that there's
3:00
Speaker 1: an eighty two degrees angle of that trajectory going into
3:05
Speaker 1: that cage that puts it way up here. Hence why
3:09
Speaker 1: he's saying, we have a second shooter who could have
3:12
Speaker 1: been higher. He completely caught that investigator on. Hold on,
3:15
Speaker 1: hold on, let me understand what you're saying. He was
3:19
Speaker 1: saying in court. Hey, guys. In addition to Crispin, with me,
3:25
Speaker 1: as doctor Michelle Duprie, former forensic pathologists, medical examiner, detective,
3:30
Speaker 1: it goes on and on and on, author of homotide
3:33
Speaker 1: Investigation Field Guide. She also knows her way around ballistics.
3:39
Speaker 1: Doctor dupree, Please everybody on the panel jump in. But
3:43
Speaker 1: doctor Dupree, let's follow up on what Crispin just said.
3:46
Speaker 1: One Hart Pooling is trying to tell this jury and
3:49
Speaker 1: said there were two shooters, okay, And he's right now
3:54
Speaker 1: arguing it through his cross examination that based on the
3:58
Speaker 1: trajectory path This is important, guys, Based on the trajectory
4:04
Speaker 1: path of the bullet, like did it come from up
4:07
Speaker 1: to down? Did it come from right to left? He's
4:10
Speaker 1: arguing that I guess there had to be a sniper
4:14
Speaker 1: or a sharp shooter up in a tree shooting down
4:18
Speaker 1: at that angle. That that's what he's trying to say,
4:21
Speaker 1: doctor Chael, debris. But here's here's the fly in the ointment. Maggie.
4:30
Speaker 1: Her body had stipling. That's important, explain, doctor Duprie. What
4:38
Speaker 1: is stipling? Yes, Nancy, it is possible there could have
4:42
Speaker 1: been two shooters, but that doesn't mean that just based
4:45
Speaker 1: on the trajectory, and stipling absolutely discounts that because stipling
4:50
Speaker 1: is a close up, down just a moment. Not everybody
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Speaker 1: is a firearms expert. I want you to lane how
5:01
Speaker 1: stipling on Maggie's body. It's burning from the shooting. It's
5:08
Speaker 1: a contact shot. Why that defeats the theory that somebody's
5:13
Speaker 1: outside shooting in that's BS technical legal term hit it.
5:18
Speaker 1: It is BS because stipling is actually not a contact
5:22
Speaker 1: but it's a close contact. It's very near the target.
5:26
Speaker 1: And many things come out of the barrel of a
5:27
Speaker 1: gun when there is a shot. There's fire, there's soot,
5:31
Speaker 1: there's unburned metal and gunpowder, and this is actually small,
5:36
Speaker 1: very small particles of unburned metal that will scratch the
5:41
Speaker 1: surface of the skin. It cannot be wiped away. This
5:44
Speaker 1: actually injures the skin, and it indicates by definition that
5:48
Speaker 1: This was a close range shot. So the theory that
5:52
Speaker 1: there's a shooter off of the distance shooting or even
5:55
Speaker 1: ten feet away, that won't fly because Maggie has stimpling
6:01
Speaker 1: on her skin. It was almost, if not a contact hit.
6:05
Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm hearing in my ear straight out of
6:08
Speaker 1: the courtroom with me. Anne Emerson, Senior investigative reporter w CIV,
6:13
Speaker 1: host of Unsolved South Carolina, the Murderike, Murders, Money and Mystery,
6:19
Speaker 1: which I have listened to about ten times. Anne Emerson,
6:23
Speaker 1: and I want our listeners and viewers to hear it
6:27
Speaker 1: straight from the horse's mouth. If I could get the
6:31
Speaker 1: control room to play our cut eight, listen to what
6:35
Speaker 1: heartpooling is spinning out in the courtroom. Listen. It doesn't
6:39
Speaker 1: agendicate to you there were two shooting, and the shooter
6:43
Speaker 1: down here is the post. Let me say that, is
6:48
Speaker 1: it a possibility that they're two shooting based on the
6:52
Speaker 1: data you co out movement from here all the way
7:00
Speaker 1: up the hill. I don't know it's there, but isn't
7:04
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you. I mean one one explanation would
7:08
Speaker 1: be movement. Correct. One explanation would be would be two shooters?
7:14
Speaker 1: There are two guns there, one's a shot gun. Ones
7:16
Speaker 1: they are and we now see that that r's being
7:20
Speaker 1: shot from way up here. Correct, I can't see somewhere
7:25
Speaker 1: along along? Could someone have been a lookout there? And
7:28
Speaker 1: what they're to kill? Paul? And and uh, that's a
7:32
Speaker 1: look at it? Maggie surprised him. They thought she was gone,
7:38
Speaker 1: reasonable though, bright Right wasn't there. I know you weren't there,
7:44
Speaker 1: but none of us were there. We're kind of figure
7:45
Speaker 1: out what happened that night, and one agreed. More explanation
7:49
Speaker 1: is two shooters, one explanation. Okay, so one explanation, two shooters.
7:55
Speaker 1: What in the hey? You know, I can tell you
7:57
Speaker 1: this much an Emerson. I'm gonna have a T shirt Maid,
8:01
Speaker 1: and it's gonna say I love Melenda Worley. Did you
8:06
Speaker 1: hear Hartpootlean tried to lead her down the garden path
8:10
Speaker 1: and she was very nice about it, and she go, no, no,
8:14
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't get that at all. Tell us
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Speaker 1: what happened. And she stayed on point for sure. For
8:21
Speaker 1: the state, she's been working really hard to keep what
8:26
Speaker 1: they've been working on just on point the whole way through.
8:29
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right about that, and Hartpootlean. It's been a
8:34
Speaker 1: lot of time this morning trying to line up angles
8:38
Speaker 1: that would have brought into just that, you know, a
8:43
Speaker 1: little slimmer of a doubt that there could be two
8:47
Speaker 1: shooters involved. Now the state fought back on that. Oh
8:51
Speaker 1: they sure did. Time stories with Nancy Greece. Hey, guys,
9:09
Speaker 1: I'm hearing in my ear. In addition to Robert Crispin,
9:13
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, Anne Emerson joining us doctor Angela Arnold,
9:18
Speaker 1: A boy, do we need to shrink high profile psychiatrist
9:22
Speaker 1: joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. I'm hearing in
9:24
Speaker 1: my ear that now joining us, also outside the courthouse,
9:28
Speaker 1: is Eric Bland. He is the founding partner of Bland
9:32
Speaker 1: Richer and you may know him more by the fact
9:37
Speaker 1: that he has been representing the Gloria Sadderfield family. If
9:44
Speaker 1: you didn't know that name before today, let me tell
9:46
Speaker 1: you who. Miss Senterfield was the long time housekeeper and nanny.
9:53
Speaker 1: She helped raise these children, Paul now dead, and Buster,
9:59
Speaker 1: who was sitting about four feet in front of me
10:01
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Eric Bland. I haven't talked about Murdog's
10:08
Speaker 1: grand entrance into the courtroom but he's certainly made one today, cool, calm, collected.
10:18
Speaker 1: I noticed not wearing a wedding band. He was decked
10:24
Speaker 1: out like he should be on the front of a
10:26
Speaker 1: men's clothing catalog, and I wondered how it must feel
10:31
Speaker 1: to him, Eric Bland, who's argued so many times to
10:35
Speaker 1: so many judges in this courtroom right behind me, how
10:38
Speaker 1: it feels in a courtroom where his grandfather, a great
10:42
Speaker 1: grandfather's picture is up on the wall, and he has
10:44
Speaker 1: been representing so many people. Now he's sitting at the
10:48
Speaker 1: defendants table being tried for a murder. And I still
10:53
Speaker 1: don't understand why the death penalty has not been sought.
10:57
Speaker 1: That's a whole other canon. Worms. What do you make
11:00
Speaker 1: of it so far? Eric Bland? Well, I think that
11:04
Speaker 1: I think he's feeling confident. Obviously, he knows the courtroom.
11:08
Speaker 1: He feels like he knows the jury. He feels like
11:11
Speaker 1: that he has very seasoned attorneys. And this is all scripted, Nancy,
11:15
Speaker 1: as you know, the fact that his family is sitting
11:19
Speaker 1: behind him is a message to the jury. The way
11:22
Speaker 1: the cameras are set up, Buster, John, Marvin, his sister
11:28
Speaker 1: the other day, Randolph, all the family members are sitting
11:32
Speaker 1: on the defense side. And I get it that Alex
11:36
Speaker 1: is innocent until proven guilty, but they know he's a thief.
11:39
Speaker 1: They know that he stole almost ten million dollars from clients.
11:44
Speaker 1: They know that he betrayed his law firm, he betrayed
11:47
Speaker 1: his family, he betrayed his friends. But I think what
11:50
Speaker 1: you're seeing is it's a message to the jury that
11:55
Speaker 1: they need to trust Alex because his family trusts him.
12:00
Speaker 1: Remember the state's spending millions of dollars vindicating and championing
12:04
Speaker 1: the rights of the deaths of Maggie and Paul. But
12:08
Speaker 1: no one is sitting on the state side. Now. I
12:11
Speaker 1: get it that he is innocent until proven guilty, but
12:15
Speaker 1: this is sending a strong message. You also heard this morning, Nancy,
12:19
Speaker 1: that his law partners actually were on the crime scene
12:24
Speaker 1: the night the morning after the shootings. That four of
12:29
Speaker 1: his law partners and his brother got on the crime scene. Now,
12:33
Speaker 1: I'm telling you you cannot do this anywhere else. Family
12:38
Speaker 1: members would never be able to be on the crime
12:41
Speaker 1: scene before it was finished. Now, Harcutlean is spending a
12:45
Speaker 1: lot of time attacking this crime scene, and rightly so.
12:48
Speaker 1: But I've never met a defense lawyer who's like the
12:51
Speaker 1: crime scene. I've never met a defense lawyer who stood
12:54
Speaker 1: up and said, hey, you know what, you guys have
12:56
Speaker 1: done everything right. I have no questions. If they took
12:59
Speaker 1: a hundred pictures, he would say they should have taken
13:02
Speaker 1: two hundred. Let's let the state continue to build its case.
13:07
Speaker 1: It's like building a house. You got to start with
13:09
Speaker 1: the foundation so that it can fortify that house. And
13:13
Speaker 1: that's what they're doing. They brought in the person who's
13:15
Speaker 1: secured the crime scene. They're putting the person to make
13:19
Speaker 1: sure they preserve the crime scene, the person who gathers
13:23
Speaker 1: the evidence. Then they bring it back to the labs.
13:26
Speaker 1: Let's let the state finish out its case before we
13:29
Speaker 1: have all these people out on national TV saying hartput
13:33
Speaker 1: Lean is doing so great. He's carving up these witnesses.
13:37
Speaker 1: These ladies that have been witnesses for the past three days,
13:41
Speaker 1: I think have made my state proud. They are credential,
13:45
Speaker 1: they are educated, they are serious, and they've done a
13:48
Speaker 1: good job. So that's what I have to say. Right now.
13:51
Speaker 1: We'll hold on this a moment. Bland guys with me.
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Speaker 1: Eric Bland, who is representing the Glorious Sadderfield family who
13:59
Speaker 1: failed to her death another dead body connected to the
14:02
Speaker 1: Murdoch clan. You say that it has been said that
14:09
Speaker 1: Harputleian is quote your words, not mine, carving up the
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Speaker 1: state's witnesses. I object to that characterization because Hartputleian couldn't
14:22
Speaker 1: even find his documents in his pictures. Today. He had
14:25
Speaker 1: a whole fleet of defense attorneys sitting at the table,
14:28
Speaker 1: and not one of them could come up with the
14:32
Speaker 1: photo he's trying to show the witness I can't tell you,
14:35
Speaker 1: it was like watching paint dry. It was excruciating, and
14:40
Speaker 1: I'll be darned if I was paying that kind of
14:42
Speaker 1: money to a lawyer. Well, I'm telling you, every night
14:45
Speaker 1: I go on TV and I battle Mark Aragos and
14:48
Speaker 1: all the other National Defense Attorney minions that are out
14:51
Speaker 1: there extalling how great a job that Dick's doing. Look,
14:54
Speaker 1: I get it, he is a good lawyer. I get it.
14:57
Speaker 1: If we should commend him at seventy four years old,
15:00
Speaker 1: it's it's not easy being a trial attorney. It's stressful
15:04
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of work that goes into it,
15:06
Speaker 1: and he's up on his feet. I'll give him props
15:08
Speaker 1: for that. If you address what I just said. He
15:11
Speaker 1: was unprepared. I'll put it out there. I don't see
15:14
Speaker 1: he was not prepared. They got out early on Friday,
15:18
Speaker 1: and come Monday morning, he still doesn't have his He
15:21
Speaker 1: doesn't have his evidence in order. The judge had to
15:24
Speaker 1: send the jury out so Harputley and could get it together,
15:28
Speaker 1: and when they came back, he still didn't have it together.
15:30
Speaker 1: I don't think he's made a dent. I really don't.
15:33
Speaker 1: But he is sprinkling out that there is possibly another shooter,
15:37
Speaker 1: that there is some things that should have been done
15:39
Speaker 1: on the crime scene, that there was some footprints that
15:43
Speaker 1: may have been walked over, tire tracks. I get it.
15:47
Speaker 1: They're all red herrings. It doesn't change the fact that
15:50
Speaker 1: Alex was there six minutes before the shootings were happened,
15:54
Speaker 1: and he said for a year and a half that
15:55
Speaker 1: he was never near the kennels. It doesn't negate the
15:59
Speaker 1: fact that he's totally clean. After the police showed up
16:03
Speaker 1: after he called nine one one, when he supposedly turned
16:06
Speaker 1: over a bloody body and check Paul's pulse, there was
16:11
Speaker 1: no blood on him, there was no mud on him.
16:13
Speaker 1: He came to the property and brought Maggie there that
16:17
Speaker 1: night to supposedly go together to see the father in
16:20
Speaker 1: the hospital. Yet he leaves them. Eric Bland, he did
16:25
Speaker 1: not bring Maggie there. He lured her there. She told
16:30
Speaker 1: her friends, Oh, what is Alex up to? Now? I
16:35
Speaker 1: smell a fish. She didn't want to go, but he
16:39
Speaker 1: lured her there. But he doesn't even go see the father. Nancy,
16:43
Speaker 1: that was the whole purpose. He goes to see the mother.
16:46
Speaker 1: It does none of this adds up. Alex's timeline is
16:51
Speaker 1: blown to bits. He's now at the murder scene. The
16:55
Speaker 1: phone evidence puts him there. The voice evidence puts him there.
16:58
Speaker 1: That we now know that you changed this close from
17:01
Speaker 1: seven to forty five to ten fifteen. These are potent
17:05
Speaker 1: facts that need to be stressed. The one the only
17:10
Speaker 1: criticism I may have of the state is that they
17:14
Speaker 1: should have shown an overlay of the Moselle property. I've
17:17
Speaker 1: been there. It's very confusing, Rhodes. Can I tell you something.
17:22
Speaker 1: I was out there looking at the Moselle property at
17:25
Speaker 1: eleven thirty last night. I see what you mean. An
17:29
Speaker 1: overlay would be very very helpful with me. Is Eric Bland,
17:34
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer joining us here outside the courthouse, and
17:38
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something else. Let me go to
17:39
Speaker 1: Anne Emerson on this WCIV watching Creighton Waters after seeing
17:47
Speaker 1: I mean, there's really no other way to say it.
17:50
Speaker 1: I know Harputlean had good intentions, but he was bumbling
17:54
Speaker 1: around in the courtroom. I'm telling you, they've had since
17:58
Speaker 1: last Friday. They got out early to this morning, and
18:01
Speaker 1: they still don't have their evidence and marshaled, and they've
18:05
Speaker 1: got what five six lawyers over there. But when Creton
18:08
Speaker 1: Waters got up to conduct the next direct exam, it
18:14
Speaker 1: was like a symphony. He had everything ready to hand
18:18
Speaker 1: it to the witness, no delay. The jury perked up
18:22
Speaker 1: because finally something was happening in the courtroom. And another thing.
18:26
Speaker 1: The female lawyer, Savannah Good not bad at all, she
18:32
Speaker 1: was good, but Creton Waters excellent. I think it was
18:36
Speaker 1: a very different speed that was going on at the beginning.
18:39
Speaker 1: We were all expecting for him to come out literally
18:44
Speaker 1: on fire, Dick Carpootlian, and instead it was just the
18:49
Speaker 1: low cartical and confusion of evidence, of exhibits, of numbers.
18:54
Speaker 1: It was. It was. It was a little painful at
18:57
Speaker 1: the beginning. Now, what I do think one thing that
19:01
Speaker 1: to notice that they did have. They've been doing Agent Warley.
19:05
Speaker 1: You know, of course on Friday of the state has
19:10
Speaker 1: had an opportunity to really kind of run through their stuff.
19:14
Speaker 1: So they've been working hard on that. And before I
19:17
Speaker 1: forget Nancy, I wanted you to know that sometime that
19:20
Speaker 1: tack complutely and said in an opening statement, he said
19:24
Speaker 1: he just kind of dropped it in there. He hopes
19:26
Speaker 1: the jury will get a chance to go out to
19:28
Speaker 1: Moselle to see it from themselves. And you know, as
19:32
Speaker 1: everyone kind of wraps their head around this whole, huge,
19:35
Speaker 1: seventeen hundred acre estate where this brutal attack happened, I
19:40
Speaker 1: think that's going to be a pivotal moment for the
19:43
Speaker 1: jury to be able to see how this place is
19:46
Speaker 1: laid out. Doctor Angela Arnoland is joining me also high
19:49
Speaker 1: profile psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. I've gotten a
19:52
Speaker 1: little trial note. But first of all, they took away
19:55
Speaker 1: my fitbit, so I have no idea about my steps anymore,
19:59
Speaker 1: and myself, Poe, but I had this let me tell
20:03
Speaker 1: you what I wrote down, And I stood up to
20:07
Speaker 1: get a good look at murdog in the flesh when
20:11
Speaker 1: he came in the courtroom. He's tall, thin, unlike when
20:16
Speaker 1: he shaved his head for what reason, I don't know.
20:20
Speaker 1: He's got a full head of hair, perfectly groomed, not
20:25
Speaker 1: wearing a wedding band, very very charming. He made a
20:32
Speaker 1: beeline to this beautiful blond assistant. Maybe she may not
20:38
Speaker 1: be an assistant, maybe she's a second chair lawyer. I'm
20:41
Speaker 1: not sure who she is. She could be a peri illegal.
20:45
Speaker 1: And he chatted her up very exuberantly, waiting for the
20:50
Speaker 1: judge to come in. He was very charming to her.
20:55
Speaker 1: He was gesticulating, as Eric Bland said as he spoke
20:59
Speaker 1: to her, her with a lot of confidence. I mean,
21:03
Speaker 1: if I was looking at a double murder charge, I
21:06
Speaker 1: would be in awe of everything happening around me, concerned, worried.
21:13
Speaker 1: He did not signal any of that, Doctor Angie Arnold. Nancy,
21:18
Speaker 1: I think that that shows that shows us you are
21:21
Speaker 1: seeing who this man really is. That's his narcissism coming out, Nancy.
21:26
Speaker 1: He doesn't think, he doesn't think he's going to go
21:28
Speaker 1: away for murder. He's probably convinced himself he didn't murder anybody. Okay,
21:33
Speaker 1: So what you have just described is evidence that this
21:37
Speaker 1: man is at least a complete and utter narcissist, which
21:42
Speaker 1: lends itself to why he's been able to do all
21:44
Speaker 1: of these things in his life that everybody's like, oh
21:47
Speaker 1: my god, how can he do this? How can he
21:49
Speaker 1: do that? Because Nancy, he is a narcissist at the
21:52
Speaker 1: very least, and you just described that as you were
21:56
Speaker 1: able to see it in the courtroom. Also in the
21:59
Speaker 1: courtroom today, I saw the elected state Attorney General for
22:06
Speaker 1: the first time he has come to the courtroom. What
22:09
Speaker 1: if anything, does that mean, Eric Bland. I don't I
22:14
Speaker 1: recall a g assistance coming in on some of my
22:19
Speaker 1: murder cases, because if if I had gotten a conviction,
22:23
Speaker 1: they always write an amicus currey friend of the court
22:26
Speaker 1: brief to hold the conviction. But I don't remember the
22:29
Speaker 1: elected Attorney General leaving the capitol and coming to the courthouse.
22:35
Speaker 1: What does that mean, Eric, Well, I've been baiting him
22:37
Speaker 1: for about ten months to come. We have not heard
22:40
Speaker 1: from him, Nancy. We haven't heard from why they charged
22:44
Speaker 1: all the financial crimes and having scheduled those trials and
22:48
Speaker 1: put the murder trial first. So I have gone on
22:50
Speaker 1: a lot of shows and said it's time, we either
22:53
Speaker 1: hear from Alan Wilson or he supports his troops. Look,
22:56
Speaker 1: Alex is getting a lot of support in that courtroom
22:59
Speaker 1: from Emily and friends. Do not kid yourself, and there's
23:02
Speaker 1: a lot of people in this area that still have
23:06
Speaker 1: good feelings either towards Alex or the Murdoch family. Look,
23:10
Speaker 1: I saw in court the other day something I've never
23:13
Speaker 1: ever seen before, and that is a defendant in front
23:16
Speaker 1: of the court security was able to turn around and
23:19
Speaker 1: hug and touch family members and friends. No other criminal
23:24
Speaker 1: that's charged with double murder could do that, Nancy. So
23:28
Speaker 1: I think that Alan Wilson is coming here to show
23:32
Speaker 1: the jury to show television anchors like you, Hey, I'm
23:38
Speaker 1: here to support my charges. These are my troops and
23:42
Speaker 1: I'm proud of them. Well, I've got to say, I
23:44
Speaker 1: don't know what Garagos is talking about on TV, but
23:47
Speaker 1: I've been looking in the courtroom and the state has
23:51
Speaker 1: a very fine set of prosecutors, and somebody needs to
23:55
Speaker 1: sort out what horput Lean is doing as a defense lawyer,
23:59
Speaker 1: and hints need him the right documents and the right
24:02
Speaker 1: evidence so he can get on with it. The judge,
24:05
Speaker 1: who I thought was very well controlled, on time, precise,
24:11
Speaker 1: handled every objection perfectly. Was getting fed up with Hartpoolian
24:16
Speaker 1: dragging everything out. I want you to hear more about
24:21
Speaker 1: what happened in the courtroom right now. The defense is
24:24
Speaker 1: trying to hammer in the theory that there were two shooters,
24:28
Speaker 1: but I think that the direct evidence is going to
24:31
Speaker 1: contriving that. I want you to take a listen to
24:34
Speaker 1: what they're trying to do. Hardpoolian and he knows his
24:37
Speaker 1: way around the courtroom. Don't get me wrong, He's one
24:39
Speaker 1: a lot of cases. This is about bloody footprints attack
24:44
Speaker 1: number two. Listen, your analysis is that one set of
24:50
Speaker 1: those footwear impressions is Paul facing the back of the
25:04
Speaker 1: feed room, right, and yet we know in their bloody
25:08
Speaker 1: so he's already been shot. Has anyone discussed with you
25:11
Speaker 1: how he got faced away from where he was shot,
25:17
Speaker 1: where the footprints smudged as if he was churning and
25:21
Speaker 1: there was blood dripping, he was stepping in the blood
25:25
Speaker 1: and leaving his own footwear impressions in the blood. I
25:29
Speaker 1: don't know that it was smeared necessarily. You can't explain
25:33
Speaker 1: how he got shot in the front when he at
25:36
Speaker 1: some point soon thereafter facing backwards. Can't say which way
25:41
Speaker 1: he was facing when he was actually shot. Guys, that's
25:44
Speaker 1: the woman I'm talking about, Worli the kriminalist. And there
25:49
Speaker 1: was a moment in the courtroom ann Emerson is joining
25:52
Speaker 1: me from w CIV that he Heartpootley and actually tried
25:57
Speaker 1: to crack a joke with her, I believe even let
26:00
Speaker 1: me check my note. She said she was a senior
26:04
Speaker 1: criminalist or and then he tried to crack a joke
26:09
Speaker 1: with Wory about being special, like what's special about you?
26:15
Speaker 1: Something to that effect, and she just, you know, looks
26:18
Speaker 1: like water on a duck's back to her. But the
26:21
Speaker 1: jury did not laugh. Okay, that's why you shouldn't crack
26:25
Speaker 1: jokes as a lawyer in a double murder case. The
26:29
Speaker 1: jury did not laugh along with Hart Pootlan. Well, that
26:33
Speaker 1: was like the third time this has happened too that
26:35
Speaker 1: I've been founding. We had that happened he had earlier
26:39
Speaker 1: when he when he referred to the handling of a sultan,
26:42
Speaker 1: who's like he must have been held it like a
26:44
Speaker 1: HANDI port Deane, and there was there was kind of
26:48
Speaker 1: a same feeling right then. What I'm trying to say
26:51
Speaker 1: is to in any way if his goal was to
26:55
Speaker 1: make fun of her being what a special agent? I
26:57
Speaker 1: don't know what the jury didn't laugh. I don't think
27:00
Speaker 1: they even got it. But that said, she stayed strong.
27:06
Speaker 1: She did not exhibit any emotion one way or the other.
27:09
Speaker 1: And what you were just hearing about the bloody footprints,
27:12
Speaker 1: Let's get back to the actual evidence for a moment.
27:14
Speaker 1: He's saying to Worly on the stand, well, did anybody
27:18
Speaker 1: tell you which way Paul was facing when he was shot?
27:21
Speaker 1: And she said nope, and hartpooling and acted like she
27:24
Speaker 1: should know that she's a crime scene analyst. That's not
27:29
Speaker 1: what she's there to do. And I don't know if
27:33
Speaker 1: that was lost on the jury or if they got it.
27:35
Speaker 1: What do you think I hear Bland jumping and go ahead.
27:37
Speaker 1: Eric Dick is trying to draft every single agent to
27:42
Speaker 1: go beyond what their job is. Well, why didn't you
27:45
Speaker 1: do this? Why didn't you do that? And the answer
27:48
Speaker 1: is because it's not my job. Again, building a case
27:51
Speaker 1: and building an investigation happens in segments, in blocks, interconnected,
27:57
Speaker 1: and Worly is not the analyst. Her job is to
28:01
Speaker 1: gather evidence. She doesn't make conclusions and harputlean was trying
28:06
Speaker 1: to score points by saying, well, why didn't you do that?
28:08
Speaker 1: And her answer is because that's someone else's job in
28:11
Speaker 1: this investigation. And that's what I think the jury did
28:15
Speaker 1: see that. I was very impressed with Worley, as I
28:18
Speaker 1: was with some of these other officers. They didn't knuckle
28:21
Speaker 1: under to Harputleian's sarcasm, and they were just Jack Webb,
28:27
Speaker 1: just the facts presented themselves and walked off and go
28:32
Speaker 1: back and do their jobs. That's what we want with
28:34
Speaker 1: our law enforcement officers. Nancy. I wish they wouldn't say
28:37
Speaker 1: that's not my job, because that tends to suggest some
28:41
Speaker 1: sort of app feeling that's not my job. But to
28:44
Speaker 1: the point of saying, well, sorry, I'm a crime scene tech.
28:49
Speaker 1: My job is, and say what her job is because
28:52
Speaker 1: she did her job, and she did a darn good job.
28:55
Speaker 1: She talks about getting a ten thirty three PM call
28:58
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night side of bed and
29:00
Speaker 1: she's at the crime scene at twelve o seven in
29:03
Speaker 1: the morning, ready to process a double murder scene. To
29:08
Speaker 1: have them say it's not my job could make them
29:10
Speaker 1: sound apathetic, like I'm not doing it, that's not my job.
29:14
Speaker 1: That's not at all the case. They were doing their
29:16
Speaker 1: jobs and doing a pretty good job of it. Crime
29:33
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we got a three prong
29:39
Speaker 1: attack going on this morning in the courthouse right beside
29:42
Speaker 1: me in the double murder trial of Legal Air Alex Murdog.
29:47
Speaker 1: There is the two attacker theory, and that's based on
29:52
Speaker 1: the trajectory path of the bullets that entered the bodies
29:55
Speaker 1: of Paul and Maggie. We have the bloody footprint suggesting
30:01
Speaker 1: the States screwed up the scene, there's no nice way
30:04
Speaker 1: to put it. And we have the third prong of
30:08
Speaker 1: this morning attacks about blood on a shirt or light
30:14
Speaker 1: thereof Take a listen to this straight out of the courtroom.
30:19
Speaker 1: You would agree with me that this shirt has it
30:24
Speaker 1: doesn't look like it just came back from the laundry,
30:26
Speaker 1: just got smudges down here and generally stains here and there,
30:31
Speaker 1: correct not completely clean. And it seems to be something
30:37
Speaker 1: on the bottom that looks like a handprint. Does it nothing?
30:41
Speaker 1: I didn't see a handprint that was on the body.
30:45
Speaker 1: Hem footage where he was wiping his face with the
30:48
Speaker 1: shirt right there. You did this with LCV right, that's
30:52
Speaker 1: what they call a presumptive test. It could be human blood.
30:56
Speaker 1: It could also be animal blood. It also could be detergent.
31:00
Speaker 1: Could it be something other than which it's something other
31:04
Speaker 1: than human blood. It doesn't it doesn't determine whether it's
31:07
Speaker 1: human or no, not right, So it could be animal blood.
31:12
Speaker 1: It's possible, could be detergent, detergent oftentimes not bleach. Maybe bleach. Okay, Okay.
31:23
Speaker 1: He's talking about testing the shirt with LCD testing and
31:29
Speaker 1: Emerson joining us to WCIV ABC News. This is Harpulian's
31:35
Speaker 1: third prong of his attack on the States. Some of
31:39
Speaker 1: their most critical evidence this morning. Explain what he's trying
31:43
Speaker 1: to say. Well, there's a you know, this is gonna
31:46
Speaker 1: get more and more interesting because we've been privy to
31:49
Speaker 1: precral motions. But what he's talking about right now is
31:52
Speaker 1: the LTD that was freed on the T shirt. I
31:55
Speaker 1: don't think this is the last time he's going to
31:57
Speaker 1: talk about it either, because there was enough lame. All
32:00
Speaker 1: that eat that is destroyed the court in the end,
32:03
Speaker 1: and the defense was not able to examine it like
32:07
Speaker 1: they needed to. Now, what we did here was it
32:10
Speaker 1: the test team back after the LTD, which is the
32:13
Speaker 1: sort of do we see anything on there? And they
32:17
Speaker 1: go and they look at they look at it with
32:19
Speaker 1: team of treats. They take it one more step further
32:23
Speaker 1: and at that point they say no blood is bound
32:26
Speaker 1: and then he cut it off and went streaks to
32:28
Speaker 1: the short we did not. I feel like he got
32:31
Speaker 1: a clear end of the testimony on that, which teams
32:35
Speaker 1: that he's got a lot more to say about that
32:37
Speaker 1: is what I'm thinking from the defense, I don't think
32:39
Speaker 1: they're done yet. Robert Crispin joining me, Former d EA
32:42
Speaker 1: and Miami Field officer Crispin, thanks for being with us
32:46
Speaker 1: from Crispin Investigations dot com. What is he trying to do?
32:51
Speaker 1: What is Hart Putley and trying to do with Murdom's shirt?
32:56
Speaker 1: Now we know that this was a very bloody crime
32:59
Speaker 1: scene and the shirt looked really pristained to the naked eye.
33:07
Speaker 1: What's he trying to do right here, Crispin, Just like
33:11
Speaker 1: the trajectory of the bullet, he's trying to detract and
33:14
Speaker 1: say that there was no blood on there. When the
33:19
Speaker 1: issues are and if we can go back for just
33:20
Speaker 1: a second, and I want to talk about this second
33:23
Speaker 1: shooter theory for just a minute, and to understand, and
33:26
Speaker 1: this is where it's going to come back, and it's
33:28
Speaker 1: going to haunt the defense because now the state knows
33:31
Speaker 1: where the defense is going on the second shooter issue,
33:34
Speaker 1: and they're going to slam at home when they put
33:36
Speaker 1: their ballistics expert out there, because to understand the velocity
33:40
Speaker 1: that a bullet comes out of an AAR fifteen at
33:42
Speaker 1: thirty two hundred feet a second or twenty two hundred
33:46
Speaker 1: miles an hour into a cage, I don't know too
33:49
Speaker 1: many cages that are made of solid steel. I think
33:52
Speaker 1: what you're dealing with, you're dick. You're dealing with a ricochet,
33:55
Speaker 1: and I think that's going to come back, and that's
33:57
Speaker 1: going to haunt the defense and that's going out in
33:59
Speaker 1: the jury's see that? Wow? I like, they go ahead. Now,
34:03
Speaker 1: let's talk about the shirt. They're trying to get the
34:06
Speaker 1: juraity here that there was no blood on the shirt.
34:09
Speaker 1: That's what they're trying to do. But I don't care
34:11
Speaker 1: that there was no blood on the shirt. We already
34:13
Speaker 1: know everything that's been going on. My theory is he's
34:16
Speaker 1: already changed his shirt before he called law enforcement. He
34:20
Speaker 1: probably took a shower before he contacted law enforcement. And
34:24
Speaker 1: the problem with those LCD test is, yes, they do
34:29
Speaker 1: give a produmcptive test for the hemoglobments in the blood,
34:32
Speaker 1: but they also do test positive for bleach and rust.
34:35
Speaker 1: That's a problem, but it does help law enforcement on
34:39
Speaker 1: a scene when they come across bodily fluid to say, hey, yeah,
34:42
Speaker 1: that's blood, let's go ahead and test set. Let's collect
34:45
Speaker 1: that that could be DNA, especially like around a window
34:48
Speaker 1: of a burglary, when you have blood around a broken window,
34:53
Speaker 1: you can put that on there and you can get
34:55
Speaker 1: a positive test in the hemoglobans to show that it's
34:58
Speaker 1: blood right there. We could pull and we can secure
35:01
Speaker 1: it and we can DNA test it. So when we
35:03
Speaker 1: do get a suspect, we've got your DNA inside the
35:06
Speaker 1: house with your blood during the burglary. What about it
35:11
Speaker 1: with me? Doctor Michelle Dupree, former forensic pathologist, medical examiner,
35:16
Speaker 1: and detective, What do you make of it Dodgor's debris. Well,
35:19
Speaker 1: the fact that there's no blood on our allegedly no
35:22
Speaker 1: blood on the shark. I don't think that's really an
35:24
Speaker 1: issue either, because we believe that he wore a jacket
35:28
Speaker 1: over that we know that he took a jacket, a
35:30
Speaker 1: blue jacket to his mother's house and hit it. We've
35:33
Speaker 1: heard that that has a lot of GSR on it.
35:35
Speaker 1: I wouldn't doubt if that also didn't have blood on
35:37
Speaker 1: it as well. You know, I'm just thinking back over
35:40
Speaker 1: what has been happening in the courtroom this morning. Right
35:43
Speaker 1: behind me, it was a completely different tone when the
35:48
Speaker 1: prosecution took over the direct examination of the second witness
35:52
Speaker 1: that took the stand today. But I just want to
35:56
Speaker 1: follow through with the theory, Eric Bland. The presumption of innocence,
36:02
Speaker 1: of course, we all understand that. But to believe to
36:07
Speaker 1: believe that Alex Murdog did not commit a double murder, Eric,
36:12
Speaker 1: we would have to believe that he was at the
36:15
Speaker 1: murder scene what about five or six minutes before the murders,
36:20
Speaker 1: and that he was back at the murder scene an
36:22
Speaker 1: hour later, and that somehow in that one hour time
36:28
Speaker 1: period somebody else came in and murdered both of them
36:34
Speaker 1: and got away scott free. Is that the theory. That
36:37
Speaker 1: is the theory. The problem for him is that when
36:40
Speaker 1: he comes out of the house, he's gonna smell gunpowder.
36:44
Speaker 1: That was an urban warfare that took on there with
36:47
Speaker 1: the three hundred rifle as well as two shotguns. When
36:52
Speaker 1: he gets in his car, he's gonna at least have
36:54
Speaker 1: heard before he got in his car the shots, or
36:57
Speaker 1: he's gonna smell gunpowder. Plus he sent numerous messages that
37:03
Speaker 1: neither Paul nor his wife answered. So I just don't
37:08
Speaker 1: understand how he thinks it's going to be reasonable for
37:12
Speaker 1: somebody to assume. Yep, I left the scene of the murders.
37:16
Speaker 1: I went and saw my mother. I started creating my
37:19
Speaker 1: alibi by texting and making phone calls to a lot
37:23
Speaker 1: of different people. And then I come back and all
37:25
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I decide I'm going to go to
37:27
Speaker 1: the chemicals and the kennel excuse me, and now I
37:31
Speaker 1: discover the murder scene. Nancy. I do want to address
37:33
Speaker 1: one thing. There's one thing that is stuck in my
37:36
Speaker 1: crawl since Dick Krputlian did his opening statement, and that
37:40
Speaker 1: is he said it was his honor to represent Alex Murdock.
37:46
Speaker 1: Now I don't mind a defense attorney's saying I represent
37:50
Speaker 1: Alex Murdock and I believe he's not guilty of murder.
37:53
Speaker 1: But he knows that his client disgraced our legal profession,
37:58
Speaker 1: stole ten million dollars from his clients, of which I've
38:01
Speaker 1: gotten seven and a half million dollars back for our clients.
38:04
Speaker 1: But I don't know a lawyer in the world that
38:07
Speaker 1: would stand up and say, it's my honor to represent
38:10
Speaker 1: a thief that disgraced our profession. You made me think
38:13
Speaker 1: of something about going to see his mother that night.
38:16
Speaker 1: Isn't the whole reason he lured Maggie to the hunting
38:21
Speaker 1: lodge was to go see the father. Wasn't the father
38:26
Speaker 1: in Savannah Memorial Medical Center? Wasn't Weren't they supposed to
38:31
Speaker 1: two days later? I thought the whole reason was to
38:33
Speaker 1: go see the dad. But correct, he didn't go see
38:37
Speaker 1: the dad, and he certainly didn't take Maggie to see
38:39
Speaker 1: the dad. You know what else, it's not credible, Nancy.
38:43
Speaker 1: The fact is that he said when he got in
38:45
Speaker 1: the car with the investigators, it was the boating accident.
38:49
Speaker 1: My son Paul had numerous death threats against him. What
38:53
Speaker 1: parent in the world wouldn't report that to the police.
38:57
Speaker 1: There's not one police report where the mother the father
39:01
Speaker 1: reported that his life was threatened. That is not another
39:06
Speaker 1: credible explanation Nancy, Oh guys, yes, I've got that teed
39:10
Speaker 1: up for you. He is a go ahead jump in dodger. Okay, okay.
39:14
Speaker 1: So also that same night, he is asked about his
39:17
Speaker 1: relationship with Paul and he answers something I find very strange.
39:21
Speaker 1: He says, as good as it could be. What does
39:24
Speaker 1: that mean? As good as it could be under the circumstances.
39:28
Speaker 1: I think that was a strange answer. That's a really
39:31
Speaker 1: good point. I'm gonna have to bring in our shrink
39:33
Speaker 1: on that. But I want you to hear this back
39:35
Speaker 1: to what Bland was just saying, let's go out of order.
39:38
Speaker 1: I want the listeners to hear our cut five where
39:42
Speaker 1: this is immediately and I think he even says it
39:44
Speaker 1: on the nineber one call starts laying blame back to
39:48
Speaker 1: the Mallory Beach boat crash. Take a listen to our
39:52
Speaker 1: cut five. This is murdog caught on bodycam video. Listener,
39:57
Speaker 1: firearm you brought from inside the house? Yes, I want
40:00
Speaker 1: to get This is a long story. Most of them
40:02
Speaker 1: was in a boat rack of a few months back.
40:06
Speaker 1: He's been getting threats. Most of them has been the
40:08
Speaker 1: nine stuff we didn't date serious um you know he's
40:12
Speaker 1: been getting a punch none somebody. I've notice what it
40:17
Speaker 1: is when when you previously testify that he mentioned the
40:23
Speaker 1: boat cases or the boat rack. That's correct. Prior to
40:25
Speaker 1: me asking him anything about it, he did mention him.
40:27
Speaker 1: There he is at the beginning laying out a potential assailant.
40:31
Speaker 1: And I want you to hear one more thing. And guys,
40:34
Speaker 1: we have a crime scene photos that were just seen
40:37
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Um, I will tag them whenever you
40:42
Speaker 1: put them up from the control room, but I want
40:44
Speaker 1: you to also here. I found this really interesting. And
40:47
Speaker 1: our cut four they are asking, oh, guys, hold on,
40:50
Speaker 1: here we go. This just happened. This is the gun
40:54
Speaker 1: room inside the hunting lodge. I think there were oh
40:57
Speaker 1: oh gosh, there's blood that looks like smear to me
41:01
Speaker 1: on the wall. Here's more inside. And these are photos
41:06
Speaker 1: that were taking the night of the murders. There is
41:11
Speaker 1: blood markings there. I don't believe that spatter that looks
41:16
Speaker 1: to be a drip mark to me. Take a look
41:19
Speaker 1: at that on the ground. That's a trial exhibit that
41:22
Speaker 1: has just been brought into evidence is referred to in
41:24
Speaker 1: the courtroom. These are all crime scene photos. That were
41:29
Speaker 1: alluded to or used during the direct and cross examinations.
41:33
Speaker 1: We were just listening to. Now the defense really through
41:37
Speaker 1: a fit when this came in. They did not want
41:39
Speaker 1: the jury to know how many weapons and how many
41:43
Speaker 1: high powered assault type rifles and shotguns were there. For
41:49
Speaker 1: some reason, they did not want the jury to see
41:52
Speaker 1: this or know about this. These are trial exhibits you're seeing, guys.
41:57
Speaker 1: I want you to hear murder speaking. It's caught on
42:01
Speaker 1: body him audio. This is immediately after his wife and
42:05
Speaker 1: son were found murdered by him, and I can remember it.
42:11
Speaker 1: I'm projecting right here. After my fiance was murdered. I
42:15
Speaker 1: couldn't even stand to hear the radio, the TV. I
42:18
Speaker 1: didn't want to talk to anybody. Nothing they said was
42:20
Speaker 1: making any sense to me. And right in the middle
42:24
Speaker 1: of them asking about it, somebody watched the body and goes, hey, hey, man,
42:28
Speaker 1: how are you doing. I want you to hear this.
42:31
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut four. What's her niece,
42:37
Speaker 1: lady's Naggie murder, Margaret brand standard murder? Are you doing? Um?
42:50
Speaker 1: Pause right there? What did the defendant just say? Let
42:54
Speaker 1: me back it up? Are you doing? What did the
43:05
Speaker 1: defendants say right there. So all I'm in the process
43:07
Speaker 1: of gathering information about the two victims from mister murdole.
43:11
Speaker 1: Somebody walks by behind me and he pauses what he's
43:13
Speaker 1: telling me to say, hey, how are you doing? How
43:16
Speaker 1: are you doing? Yeah? And who was that? He said
43:18
Speaker 1: that too. I'm not one hundred percent certain. I believe
43:21
Speaker 1: it was a fire rescue individual. Okay, can I bring
43:24
Speaker 1: in our shrink? And I mean that in a loving
43:27
Speaker 1: and caring way, Doctor Angie, And I know I'm projecting
43:33
Speaker 1: and everyone acts differently, but I couldn't eat, I couldn't drink,
43:37
Speaker 1: I couldn't think. After Keith was murdered, and here are
43:40
Speaker 1: guys walking by and goes, hey, man, how you doing.
43:44
Speaker 1: His wife and son are lying there with their brains
43:48
Speaker 1: at their feet. He's like, hey man, what, Nancy? You
43:53
Speaker 1: are so right about that. It shows how detached he
43:59
Speaker 1: is and what happened. And again smoke and mirrors like
44:05
Speaker 1: everyone is talking about how in the world could you
44:08
Speaker 1: take your mind off of this and just go hey, hey,
44:12
Speaker 1: how are you doing? You could never do that. And
44:14
Speaker 1: I do realize that everyone reacts differently to things, Nancy,
44:18
Speaker 1: but not in such a cavalier fashion. You would not
44:21
Speaker 1: see that kind of behavior from someone who was truly
44:24
Speaker 1: upset and truly attached to the individuals that were murdered
44:29
Speaker 1: in front of helm. I'm circling back to our guests
44:33
Speaker 1: and Emerson is joining me straight out of the courtroom,
44:36
Speaker 1: joining us wc ivy and give us a recap of
44:40
Speaker 1: what has happened this morning. Once Hart Potley and got
44:42
Speaker 1: his papers in order, that took about the first I
44:45
Speaker 1: would say thirty five minutes at least, that's correct. Yeah,
44:49
Speaker 1: Once we got through the propt on Agent Wary, we
44:54
Speaker 1: were able to learn a little bit more about what
44:58
Speaker 1: was going on with you know, as far as what
45:02
Speaker 1: the defense was trying to accomplish here. As we discussed,
45:06
Speaker 1: they were trying to establish that the crime scene was
45:09
Speaker 1: not preserved as pictured in a way that would rule
45:13
Speaker 1: out other shooters, other people being on the scene. That
45:16
Speaker 1: was a big that's something he's been doing for the
45:18
Speaker 1: last few days of testimate, since the very beginning really,
45:22
Speaker 1: and they also really wanted to make sure that everybody
45:25
Speaker 1: knew about the blood scene. And once they got through
45:30
Speaker 1: the T shirt being clean and how could somebody with
45:32
Speaker 1: a T shirt that that's clean could have been part
45:36
Speaker 1: of such a brutal attack. We got into what was
45:39
Speaker 1: going on with the prosecution. The state has fought back.
45:44
Speaker 1: They came back with a lot of evidence, not only
45:51
Speaker 1: what we talked about with the cell phone evidence, they're
45:54
Speaker 1: they're really narrowing that timeline because we know that Paul
45:59
Speaker 1: was a younger, he used his phone all the time.
46:01
Speaker 1: At forty four he talked to his buddy, and then
46:05
Speaker 1: eight fifty nine when a buddy tries to call him back.
46:07
Speaker 1: This is evidence that's already getting put in, you know,
46:10
Speaker 1: on the record. He doesn't answer, and Maggie doesn't answer.
46:15
Speaker 1: Comes on just a second, and I want to nail
46:17
Speaker 1: down that time. I've got so many notes I took,
46:21
Speaker 1: but you just said it perfectly. What time does Alex murdog?
46:25
Speaker 1: What time does he say? Well, no, let me nail
46:29
Speaker 1: it down even better. What time is the snapchat that
46:34
Speaker 1: Paul sends his friend And we heard a little bit
46:36
Speaker 1: about that this morning. It seems that Paul was taking
46:39
Speaker 1: care of a friend's dog and the dog had some
46:43
Speaker 1: type of an injury. That is a snapchat video that
46:47
Speaker 1: everyone's wanting to know. What's the content? The friend asked him,
46:52
Speaker 1: I think his name was Rogie. Oh, here we go,
46:55
Speaker 1: right here, Rogie Gibson. And he asked Paul just take
47:01
Speaker 1: a video and send it to me. So Paul takes
47:05
Speaker 1: the video, and in that video it's very clear that
47:09
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog is there. What time was that video sent?
47:13
Speaker 1: And well, we pretolled in the opening statements they talked
47:17
Speaker 1: about the cell phone video from what I and that
47:19
Speaker 1: would have been what you're talking about this snapchat and
47:22
Speaker 1: we're waiting to see I think we're waiting to still
47:24
Speaker 1: hear a little bit more details about that. What I
47:27
Speaker 1: heard in testimony today was the phone call that Paul
47:30
Speaker 1: made to Rogan Gibson at eight forty four pm. And
47:34
Speaker 1: at eight forty nine Rogan resplied. Obviously they're talking about
47:38
Speaker 1: this injured dog, and he goes back and says to
47:43
Speaker 1: that Marian wants to take it to a vet. Get
47:46
Speaker 1: trying to get him to sit and stay and don't
47:48
Speaker 1: want him to be moving around. And that was to
47:50
Speaker 1: Paul from Rogan. And then that was a text and
47:55
Speaker 1: then you know, he didn't hear anything. He didn't hear anything.
47:59
Speaker 1: He said one, two, three, four five. I've got five
48:04
Speaker 1: phone calls from Rogan to fall after that, starting at
48:06
Speaker 1: nine ten am and eight cents, another tech he tries
48:12
Speaker 1: to reach Maggie doesn't happen, so it really narrows that timeline.
48:16
Speaker 1: And I think that snapchat video is going to be
48:18
Speaker 1: that poland one that the prosecution's hoping to bring in
48:23
Speaker 1: to really make it obvious that something sad happened in
48:26
Speaker 1: a matter of five And this was, oh, in just
48:30
Speaker 1: a few moments, because the way I've got it written down,
48:34
Speaker 1: and Anne correct me if I'm wrong. To Eric Bland,
48:37
Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyer who's representing the glory of Sudderfield family,
48:42
Speaker 1: that they were going back and forth about the video
48:45
Speaker 1: of the dog at eight forty four. At nine o'clock,
48:49
Speaker 1: nine o'clock sharp, that's what I've got in my notes.
48:53
Speaker 1: Calls from the friend Rogan Gibson were unanswered, and that's
49:00
Speaker 1: when I think we have our time of the killings.
49:04
Speaker 1: At nine o'clock he kept trying to text him and
49:07
Speaker 1: call him, and finally at nine thirty four, Eric Bland,
49:12
Speaker 1: he texts Maggie to tell Paul to call me, and
49:17
Speaker 1: Maggie also does not respond. So between eight forty four
49:22
Speaker 1: and nine o'clock, two murders went down. That's the way
49:28
Speaker 1: I see it, Eric Bland. Yeah, at seven forty five
49:31
Speaker 1: is when the snapchat was Nancy, and that shows Alex
49:35
Speaker 1: in a different set of clothes from what we understand.
49:37
Speaker 1: And then there was a video that was taken right
49:40
Speaker 1: before Paul died that he sent to his friend showing
49:43
Speaker 1: the tale and the dog was injured, and Alex's voice
49:47
Speaker 1: is in that in that video. And Craydon Wood said
49:52
Speaker 1: he believes the time of death happened around eight fifty
49:55
Speaker 1: four because at eight fifty five the phones of Paul
49:59
Speaker 1: and Maggie he went dead. Okay, hold on just a moment.
50:03
Speaker 1: He just dropped a bombshell on me right there. Eric
50:05
Speaker 1: Bland and anybody on the panel jump in. Could you
50:08
Speaker 1: repeat what you said about Alex Murdod having on different
50:14
Speaker 1: clothes in the video than what he had on when
50:17
Speaker 1: the cops got there in the snapchat. In the snapchat
50:22
Speaker 1: at seven forty five, I supposedly we're gonna see that
50:25
Speaker 1: he had on different clothes, long pants and a different shirt. Now,
50:30
Speaker 1: when the police showed up after the nine one call
50:33
Speaker 1: at ten o'clock. After ten o'clock, he was wearing a
50:35
Speaker 1: white tshirt and those green olive khaki shorts. So we're
50:41
Speaker 1: going to have possibly a change of clothes taking place.
50:44
Speaker 1: Before he was the murders, he was wearing one thing.
50:47
Speaker 1: After the murders, he was wearing another thing. And don't
50:50
Speaker 1: forget he took a blue coat to his mother's house
50:54
Speaker 1: two days later. I don't know who does that. I
50:57
Speaker 1: don't go take a coat and hide it it my
50:59
Speaker 1: mother's house two days after my wife and son got
51:02
Speaker 1: for a bit of murdered. Plus there's this seat belt
51:05
Speaker 1: that's now in evidence from his suburban, and we know
51:10
Speaker 1: that there's GSR on there, and I'm banking on Nancy
51:14
Speaker 1: that there's going to be blood on there because I
51:16
Speaker 1: don't think that Creton Waters is going to go through
51:19
Speaker 1: the whole shirt that the fact that the shirt possibly
51:24
Speaker 1: is now ruined and couldn't be tested by the defense.
51:27
Speaker 1: I don't think Bevil's going to come in because I
51:29
Speaker 1: think that was a trojan horse that Creton Waters was
51:34
Speaker 1: setting Dick up on. Dick focused on that T shirt
51:37
Speaker 1: for three months, and I think there's other credible, cogent
51:41
Speaker 1: evidence of blood that'll be on that seat belt and
51:44
Speaker 1: on other places in the car and also the amount
51:48
Speaker 1: of GSR on the coat and the seatbelt. And I've
51:54
Speaker 1: got a question to Crispin. Put it jumps up, you
51:58
Speaker 1: put the seat belt on to go up to get
52:00
Speaker 1: the twelve gate shot gun at the house. I mean
52:02
Speaker 1: that would be literally the only time but that would
52:06
Speaker 1: make sense for Alex Murdoch to have that seat don't
52:09
Speaker 1: get any kind of of any kind of residue on it, right,
52:13
Speaker 1: I mean, you would literally have to be going from
52:16
Speaker 1: discovering the bodies to getting the twelve the stocks gunning
52:19
Speaker 1: coming back. And that is the only thing I think
52:22
Speaker 1: the defense side, if they see anything on that seat belt,
52:25
Speaker 1: what about from leaving the crime scene to go to
52:28
Speaker 1: his mother's house. Yeah, if there's dr and blood on it,
52:32
Speaker 1: then he's got a big troblem. And at what time
52:36
Speaker 1: was the nine one one? And do we know the
52:39
Speaker 1: time of the nine one one? I want to go
52:41
Speaker 1: to Robert Crispin, private investigator joining US former d EA
52:46
Speaker 1: and homicide Robert Crispin. There is no eyewitness here, and
52:54
Speaker 1: many people argue it's just circumstantial. Under the law law
53:00
Speaker 1: the black and white letter of the law which will
53:03
Speaker 1: be read to the jury during jury instructions circumstantial evidence
53:08
Speaker 1: is to be considered under the law anyway as powerful
53:13
Speaker 1: is direct evidence. Of course, the jury, it's their sole
53:16
Speaker 1: province to determine the facts and the law however they
53:19
Speaker 1: see fit. But it's not just that the wardrobe change
53:25
Speaker 1: that Eric Bland was pointing out. It's not just the
53:29
Speaker 1: gunshot residue. It's not just him being at the scene
53:35
Speaker 1: five minutes before the murders and then he comes back
53:38
Speaker 1: and whoops, they're dead. It's not just his demeanor. Each
53:44
Speaker 1: one of these a brick in the wall building the
53:51
Speaker 1: case for the state. All taken together, I mean, how
53:55
Speaker 1: in they why would you have a wardrobe change? Well,
53:57
Speaker 1: these are all pieces of the puzzle that are going
53:59
Speaker 1: to put the picture together at the end when this
54:01
Speaker 1: is all over. We have the video, we have the
54:04
Speaker 1: voice on the video. We've got the change of clothes.
54:07
Speaker 1: We've got the blue jacket that went to the mom's
54:10
Speaker 1: house with gunshot residue on it. We've got the seatbelt
54:14
Speaker 1: with the gun residue on it. Every single one of
54:17
Speaker 1: these are going to be a piece of the puzzle
54:20
Speaker 1: that's going to come down to the end, and it's
54:23
Speaker 1: going to be a crystal clear picture for the jury.
54:26
Speaker 1: This is exactly why the defense is trying to do
54:30
Speaker 1: their best to create a diversion. And this is what
54:33
Speaker 1: defense lawyers do. They create a diversion when the facts
54:36
Speaker 1: are against them. So you're going to see in time
54:39
Speaker 1: as this plays out, and obviously there's a lot more
54:42
Speaker 1: to come, that puzzle is coming together, and I think
54:45
Speaker 1: at the end of this, I don't even think just
54:48
Speaker 1: jury is going to deliberate very long. I think they're
54:50
Speaker 1: going to come right back with the right decision. We
54:52
Speaker 1: didn't even discuss the ballistic evidence, the cartridge evidence that
54:59
Speaker 1: the jury is going to hear. So Anne Emerson, if
55:02
Speaker 1: you could give us your takeaway from today, what would
55:07
Speaker 1: it be, Well, I think that it just keeps on
55:10
Speaker 1: coming back to the fact that here was a very
55:13
Speaker 1: very there was very little time for two killers, a
55:20
Speaker 1: large crime team that was unfolding, with Alex still in
55:24
Speaker 1: the house. It's going to be it's a tough mountain
55:28
Speaker 1: of clime for the defense to be able to say
55:30
Speaker 1: that he wouldn't have heard or a smelled, or witness
55:34
Speaker 1: anything happening down by the kennel within that period between
55:40
Speaker 1: the time that the murder stopped and when he went
55:42
Speaker 1: to his mother's We know is at nine o six
55:45
Speaker 1: pm because that's when its heart turned on. So as
55:48
Speaker 1: far as what they've introduced so far, so there's a
55:51
Speaker 1: there's a very tough timeline to fight here for all
55:55
Speaker 1: of the crime team that they have been disturbed that night.
55:59
Speaker 1: I think that the Constitution is doing a pretty solid
56:04
Speaker 1: job of saying the things that were disturbed, it's okay.
56:07
Speaker 1: It didn't change the way you have been looking at
56:11
Speaker 1: this pace, um And I think I think that's my
56:13
Speaker 1: big takeaway. Also, I think it's very hard to get
56:17
Speaker 1: around the fact about the ballistics. But you just said
56:19
Speaker 1: the gun evidence that's coming into place. The fact that
56:23
Speaker 1: those same, the same type of the same type of
56:26
Speaker 1: AMMO were found in the house right off the bat.
56:31
Speaker 1: That's going to be very hard to do for the
56:34
Speaker 1: jurors to forget or even make it okay unless someone
56:39
Speaker 1: else has alounced this to their house their AMMO. Another
56:42
Speaker 1: thing that struck me, Doctor Angie Arnold. And if I
56:46
Speaker 1: could get the control room to put up oh there
56:48
Speaker 1: is that was the last witness before the lunch break
56:50
Speaker 1: right there, If I could get you guys to put
56:53
Speaker 1: up those crime scene photos again when they showed and
56:58
Speaker 1: the whole courtroom cannot see the evidence. I just happened
57:03
Speaker 1: to be able to look over some people's shoulders as
57:06
Speaker 1: I was sitting there and see on their computers what
57:11
Speaker 1: the jury was seeing. And I looked at that blood
57:14
Speaker 1: spatter and the blood smear doctor Angie, and I looked
57:21
Speaker 1: at the jury and they were just staring at that
57:24
Speaker 1: blood because that blood was the life's blood of the
57:31
Speaker 1: mother Maggie and the son Paul. And I looked over
57:36
Speaker 1: at the defendant and he did not even blink, and I,
57:42
Speaker 1: I mean nothing. Sometimes and I even look at my
57:46
Speaker 1: dad's picture, it chokes me up because I remember I
57:50
Speaker 1: was there in the room when he died. I mean,
57:55
Speaker 1: murdog didn't even bat an eye looking at the blood
58:00
Speaker 1: of his son and his wife all over a dog kennel. Wow,
58:05
Speaker 1: you know Nancy. Again, like I said, is people say
58:08
Speaker 1: that he had such a close relationship with his wife.
58:12
Speaker 1: I don't believe he was as attached to his wife
58:15
Speaker 1: and his son as they want us to believe. Well,
58:18
Speaker 1: I've got a pretty good feeling that if they bring
58:20
Speaker 1: that up in their case in chief of the defense,
58:22
Speaker 1: the state is going to have a rebuttal case to that. Guys,
58:25
Speaker 1: I'm hearing in my ear they're counting me down. I
58:27
Speaker 1: guess that means I'm going back into the courtroom. We're
58:30
Speaker 1: alive outside the Murdoch trial and the evidence of unfolding
58:33
Speaker 1: fast and furious. Thanks for being with us, everybody. I'll
58:37
Speaker 1: see them all.