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TV BONUS: Andor - Season 1 - Episodes 1-6 · Left of the Projector

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Evan: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,
0:51
Evan: back again with another film discussion from the left.
0:54
Evan: You can follow the show at leftwitheprojector.com.
0:58
Evan: We bring you a first of a multi-part series on another television show.
1:03
Evan: This time, the first season of Andor, a Star Wars story, which is a prequel
1:10
Evan: series to Rogue One, which is also a prequel series to other Star Wars movies.
1:15
Evan: There's a million Star Wars movies.
1:16
Evan: We all tell you why this is the best Star Wars content.
1:20
Evan: And back, I have Bill and Ward, who you've heard discuss other such episodes
1:26
Evan: as The Big Lebowski, Alien, and some other things which escape me at the moment.
1:32
Evan: but uh thank you both for coming back on the show happy.
1:36
ward: To be here.
1:36
bill: Thank you for having us since.
1:38
Evan: I said this is the best star wars content it's to me it's the best show but
1:43
Evan: as the prequel to the best movie is this true.
1:47
bill: Unequivocally yeah objectively true rogue.
1:50
ward: One is the best movie i'm.
1:51
bill: Personally enjoying i.
1:53
ward: Enjoy and or more than rogue one actually yeah.
1:56
Evan: It's like a lot of rogue wand.
1:57
ward: Yeah it's.
1:59
bill: Yeah it's sick i mean rogue one does
2:02
bill: have some stupid force shit so you know that's the ding against it which is
2:09
bill: what it's like when you're a kid you're and the jedi are awesome and now i'm
2:12
bill: like the jedi are the worst people alive they're terrible and i don't care about
2:16
bill: them or the force at all in any way shape and.
2:20
Evan: They don't mention them a single time in this show at all.
2:23
bill: No
2:24
ward: It's really the best part honestly if you ask me.
2:27
Evan: Personally one of the one of the things i saw when they were developing the
2:30
Evan: show and they brought together like all the like the writing team to build it
2:34
Evan: they specifically dan gilroy told them not to consider the show and nostalgia
2:40
Evan: and like bringing back other star wars when they wrote it so that it wouldn't
2:44
Evan: affect the show and they nailed it.
2:46
bill: Which like that is such a honestly the if we can talk about nostalgia and how
2:52
bill: nostalgia is a tool for fascism, that is such a fucking excellent point.
2:59
bill: Because, I mean, we talked about it in Alien Romulus. The one thing that none
3:03
bill: of us liked in that movie was the nostalgia bait and the fan bait.
3:07
bill: And it's like, the best part, it's like, make a good thing on its own,
3:13
bill: based on the foundations, but without the nostalgia.
3:17
Evan: Yeah, I think the quote that I saw on the Wikipedia or about it,
3:21
Evan: he said, he wanted the series to be grounded in reality
3:24
Evan: too and so well before we talk about
3:27
Evan: well so in this episode we're going to talk about half the season generally
3:31
Evan: probably the show we we're not going to we won't talk about the the second half
3:35
Evan: and the spoilers of what happens but if you're listening now you should go watch
3:39
Evan: the entire the whole series because season two is coming out in about a month
3:43
Evan: and a half from recording of this so you should get ready to uh watch season two but Like,
3:48
Evan: what do you think of the show purely as a revolutionary...
3:55
Evan: story or message leading into rogue one which is kind of funny because they
3:59
Evan: made a prequel where you know exactly what's going to happen at the end which
4:03
Evan: they said made it really easy to make the show in the sense that they knew what
4:06
Evan: the ending would be before they started they just had to get there so since
4:10
Evan: a lot of people talk about the show as being kind of a revolutionary,
4:15
Evan: show not like revolutionary and like what they made like a revolutionary as
4:18
Evan: in you know uh just feeding fascism and such and story yeah themes and stories
4:23
Evan: yeah so i don't know what do you think about that generally like do you think
4:26
Evan: that it do you think that it's like over,
4:29
Evan: liberalized you know especially given we're talking about disney and we're talking about star wars i.
4:34
ward: Don't think so which is really surprising given it is disney and it is star wars yeah.
4:39
bill: It is shocking i mean shocking.
4:42
ward: Like i i love how the revolutionary rhetoric and themes in this show are and
4:49
ward: i was one who like on uh on my previous podcast we talked about squid games
4:54
ward: i bash squid games for being too liberal like i don't have any complaints of
4:58
ward: liberalism and and or though.
5:00
Evan: Some of the characters are what
5:04
Evan: makes also the show so good i think is that you actually get characters
5:08
Evan: that are not just one dimensional which you also have
5:10
Evan: a long series so you can flesh that out but even a
5:13
Evan: lot of other series where there's even star wars or other shit they don't
5:16
Evan: like give characters actual growth they don't give
5:19
Evan: them you know uh this multifaceted
5:23
Evan: you know starting from one place and actually getting
5:26
Evan: somewhere else at the end of the season or whatever for actually like reasons
5:30
Evan: like you actually see and or and his growth even from the midway of when we're
5:37
Evan: gonna eventually stop watching you know this episode or stop discussing it to
5:41
Evan: like the second half it's just it's kind of crazy it's um,
5:45
Evan: Uh, yeah, I, um, I don't see any liberal kind of messages.
5:50
Evan: It's actually shocking to me that this mood, that this series was made to be,
5:54
Evan: to be, to be perfectly blunt.
5:56
ward: I'm right there with you.
5:57
bill: Yeah i mean you know we we can
6:00
bill: talk about you know the issues of commodification of
6:03
bill: like revolutionary rhetoric and you know we can talk about that
6:06
bill: all dang long and that's an absolutely hat but
6:09
bill: like the fact of the matter is is that in terms of like what's available and
6:13
bill: what is released and what's out there and what people see um and you know culture
6:17
bill: and what is produced media affects people and it does it does speak to people
6:22
bill: and it it shocks me that But because of how hard-line this actually is,
6:28
bill: the show is a pretty hard-line on what it stands for and what it says.
6:33
bill: And it is shocking that it is pretty incredible.
6:40
Evan: And again, since we're talking about a bunch of episodes, we're not necessarily
6:44
Evan: going to go through each one individually and talk about it.
6:47
Evan: But sort of the sketching out understanding kind of what happens is you have
6:53
Evan: Cassian Andor, who's sort of the obviously the show's name Andor.
6:57
Evan: It's based on him and his, you know, initially they kind of see him on one planet,
7:04
Evan: you know, kind of doing a robbery,
7:07
Evan: you know, getting caught up, killing some people accidentally or, you know, in a mess.
7:12
Evan: And he's basically trying to survive on a planet that is beholden to giant corporations,
7:19
Evan: which isn't actually the Empire at this point.
7:22
Evan: What I think is actually a good starting point is that they really dig into this show about...
7:29
Evan: Beyond just okay the empire is evil and they own and
7:32
Evan: control everything you actually see sort of the other side
7:35
Evan: of the um the other
7:39
Evan: side of like the working class similar in a way to alien romulus
7:42
Evan: where they show you on a planet where they're mining and doing all this labor
7:46
Evan: that's sort of disconnected from everything you see this planet that's a bunch
7:50
Evan: of essentially uh people working just to to make ends meet and uh he gets you
7:57
Evan: know caught up in something and eventually has to flee,
8:00
Evan: and it's uh just interesting to me how well they brought in a bunch of different
8:07
Evan: planets and i can well you tell me what you think about that and then i'm i'm
8:10
Evan: gonna i'll sketch out a couple of the planets because i think it's helpful for
8:13
Evan: anyone maybe who hasn't seen.
8:13
ward: It yeah i really enjoyed like how they had ferrix similar
8:17
ward: like what you're thinking alien romulus like re-watching i was
8:20
ward: thinking i was like oh this is like kind of like alien romulus where it's
8:23
ward: like a different aspect of the working class in the
8:25
ward: universe and like the fact that it's not directly
8:29
ward: under imperial control it's under corporate control
8:33
ward: which like i don't
8:36
ward: know that that made me think of us talking about uh mussolini style
8:38
ward: fascism uh from the alien romulus episode
8:41
ward: not gonna lie um that it was under direct corporate
8:44
ward: control instead of uh direct imperial but like
8:47
ward: yeah no even within these first few the first
8:50
ward: half of the season we get the empire finally taking over and
8:53
ward: like setting up on ferricks and yeah you have the characters telling us for
8:58
ward: themselves like this is the first time in a long time that the empire has been
9:03
ward: here we've actually been like they haven't been here in a long time and so you're
9:07
ward: actually getting to see like kind of a different aspect in like yeah,
9:12
ward: that's kind of really the only star warsy thing that i really enjoy about it
9:17
ward: is that like it's taking place in the star wars universe i guess but like i
9:21
ward: love the politics of this i.
9:24
bill: Think that like the fact that it starts off under corporate control and like,
9:30
bill: it is made very clear not just that like and it's
9:33
bill: not just that you know it's the company that they work for
9:36
bill: but it's their it's corporate security that those
9:39
bill: are paid those are security office private
9:42
bill: company in the state stuff like that it's a private company paid
9:46
bill: to enforce the law and then
9:49
bill: they are and i like i feel like that is
9:52
bill: such an important distinction that isn't
9:55
bill: made and which is part of like how you
9:58
bill: can you can argue about like the liberalism of star
10:01
bill: wars at large and the way it is portrayed and
10:04
bill: how easy to be like oh it's empire the empire is evil you know like throughout
10:10
bill: the rest of star wars if we want to talk about the uh inferior we're gonna get
10:15
bill: i mean you're gonna get slammed by star wars nerds i.
10:21
Evan: Don't know if they listen to this podcast.
10:22
bill: At them they like the other movies more you're gonna get fucking run out of town well but it's.
10:30
Evan: Such a good i mean you're right i mean it's there's no other um.
10:33
bill: One of the one of the distinct aspects of
10:37
bill: what separates what is one of the most important
10:40
bill: aspects that separates electives from a liberal it's understanding it's
10:44
bill: an understanding of capitalist capitalist control
10:48
bill: ruling class control and corporate and look how that implies you know what all
10:53
bill: that implies and that is missing from all other star wars like that is not an
10:58
bill: aspect it's just you know space hill and it's like but this makes it implicit
11:04
bill: like no this is rooted in capital it's rooted and.
11:07
Evan: I think what makes it like drives that point home even further is
11:10
Evan: so we also learn there's a lot of like flashing back and
11:13
Evan: forth to in the in the first uh three
11:16
Evan: or four episodes or so maybe it's even just the first three
11:19
Evan: episodes where we see and or where he comes from
11:22
Evan: where he comes from a planet called canari which is this mid-rim
11:26
Evan: like forest rich planet which became a mining colony and essentially in this
11:31
Evan: case it's very much like what you would see in uh america by you know uh america
11:36
Evan: you know by sorry not america in on earth by america you know being this you
11:40
Evan: know uh colonizing force that goes into other places,
11:44
Evan: you know, takes over and mines them for their resources, you know,
11:47
Evan: kills all the people or kills the people they need to and steals all the everything from them.
11:52
Evan: And that's what this planet is. And that's where he comes from.
11:55
Evan: And it seems also that they make it very explicit. There's like an accident
11:58
Evan: on this planet that like fucking killed a bunch of people and cause,
12:02
Evan: you know, major problems.
12:04
Evan: And it's that again, reminds me, sadly, about the episode on Alien Romulus,
12:09
Evan: where they have this planet that they're just killing the planet doing they
12:13
Evan: can't even see the fucking sun and they're just destroying everything and that
12:16
Evan: that's he's gone from this horrible place to this working class place and then
12:21
Evan: he then goes to another planet i'll i'll uh i'll dot all this is a dalhani is a.
12:27
Evan: Aldani and again another situation where
12:30
Evan: it's a base for the empire which used
12:33
Evan: to have indigenous people which they killed and drove off their land so we can
12:37
Evan: see on almost every planet with the exception of the very wealthy ones all of
12:42
Evan: the the harm that these corporations and then the empire does to them and you
12:48
Evan: never see that on any other star wars content ever.
12:51
ward: Yeah no oh i mean it's even more overt
12:54
ward: than both of those examples i mean leading up into
12:57
ward: like that second example you're talking about the planet aldani
13:01
ward: and how the danny people were fucking killed and
13:04
ward: murdered and drove and driven off their lands like you have the commandant of
13:08
ward: the bear of the garrison even saying explicitly that's not profit profitable
13:13
ward: like that's why would we do it that way that's not profitable no we did it this
13:18
ward: way instead like it's overt in your face which is crazy.
13:22
Evan: Yeah they.
13:23
bill: Don't beat around the bush.
13:24
Evan: And they built the dam also to to destroy like their land as well so they everything
13:30
Evan: they can do to essentially make their lives impossible and have to forcibly
13:35
Evan: displace them to a profit off it and all of this yeah it's it's um yeah.
13:40
ward: He said specifically there's no profit in that.
13:42
Evan: Oh man like you don't you don't you don't get i don't think they've ever said
13:46
Evan: the were like profit in us in a star wars movie before no.
13:49
ward: I don't think so.
13:51
bill: Uh i mean they might have been whatever the ones with the trade routes.
13:55
Evan: Yeah trade routes i guess like the cartoons and.
13:58
bill: The no no no no no the the the first prequels.
14:01
Evan: Oh uh yeah episode one um yeah yeah jar jar with.
14:06
bill: The with the uh the midichlorians yeah and the the horrible asian stereotype
14:13
bill: alien i think they talked about profit.
14:16
Evan: Yeah, I guess that's probably right. But not in the same way where they're actually
14:18
Evan: discussing it. Like, it takes me back to when...
14:22
ward: As a motive?
14:22
Evan: Yeah, as a motive, exactly. Not just like, oh, like, there's some profits that gets lost.
14:26
Evan: And then, what was I going to mention about the... Yeah, so the other planet
14:30
Evan: that I haven't mentioned, which comes into play is Coruscant,
14:33
Evan: which is sort of the home of the Galactic Empire, where the Senate is housed,
14:38
Evan: and it's basically just a rich, you know, a rich person's planet,
14:41
Evan: which you probably have to assume there's got to be people that are the service workers.
14:46
ward: There's people that live in the lower depths of Coruscant who don't see the light and sun.
14:52
ward: It's a trillion population planet.
14:55
bill: It's a hive planet i mean.
14:57
Evan: Oh you're right there's.
14:59
bill: A word for it i i'm i'm using 40k language but there's a word for what it is and i forget what it is.
15:06
ward: Yeah i can't remember either but yeah it's like a trillion population planet
15:10
ward: and it's mostly vertical and only the people who have it nice see like the sky and shit yeah.
15:16
Evan: God you not just one trillion it's two trillion oh.
15:20
ward: Shit i was off my bad.
15:21
Evan: And it says that it's seven 68 percent human and 32 percent other sentience
15:26
Evan: so those are the ones that you know definitely do not see any son you know they're being how many do.
15:32
ward: How many have we seen.
15:33
Evan: Yeah there's like a driver of the limo and then the the douchebag husband and
15:38
Evan: the you know a few other people can't.
15:39
ward: Stand the husband oh.
15:40
bill: Who is just a straight up uh man that whole watching their marriage makes me mad.
15:48
Evan: Well so to get to like to even to get to the husband so we sort of again i'm
15:54
Evan: not gonna skip it around i know but so basically we watch.
15:57
ward: All six episodes and come back and listen to this.
15:59
Evan: Yeah you'll have a good time i'm guessing he's probably our opinions anyways
16:02
Evan: but so i think a couple of the characters that were are worth talking about
16:07
Evan: at the beginning too and i think because i mentioned how andor comes from this
16:11
Evan: canary where he's originally you know didn't speak or he only spoke the local
16:14
Evan: language and he essentially is,
16:17
Evan: taken to ferricks by uh a woman and i guess it's not her husband is it it's
16:24
Evan: like another partner right yeah.
16:26
bill: They're just like co-workers or like.
16:28
Evan: Yeah yeah.
16:28
bill: No i don't think these are.
16:29
Evan: No i don't think so either and then basically taking is.
16:32
bill: It's not relevant.
16:32
Evan: No it's not but so one of the questions that i was that i was thinking about are you.
16:37
ward: Guys are you just going overlooked the fact that uh cassian andor's black father
16:42
ward: was killed by local police okay.
16:44
Evan: Oh you're right that is that is true i.
16:48
bill: Mean i meant whether they were married isn't relevant granted that's also after
16:54
bill: episode six not cassian's relationship to the man.
16:59
Evan: Yes yes well but so the like the the thing that's interesting about it is he's
17:04
Evan: on this planet they uh have a run-in with the Empire, essentially,
17:08
Evan: and it leads to several of his,
17:10
Evan: friends or family getting killed and he's then taken away by someone who's on
17:16
Evan: the planet presumably to loot, I think, some of the Empire's materials.
17:23
ward: They're just scavenging.
17:24
Evan: Scavengers, right?
17:24
bill: Yeah, they're just scavenging, yeah.
17:25
Evan: And they take Andor away from his home planet. And I'm curious if you think
17:28
Evan: that this is... It is essentially to save his life, potentially getting then
17:33
Evan: killed by the Empire, but...
17:36
ward: I mean, we have confirmation that he would have been killed by the Empire.
17:41
Evan: But do you, I don't know why I have it in my head that it's still like,
17:45
Evan: I think, an interesting question of taking this indigenous person from their
17:49
Evan: home and essentially taking them under,
17:52
Evan: you know, to save them, sort of be a mother to that person. I don't know. Am I like reaching?
17:56
ward: I mean, I would say in simplest terms, even though she did it for all the right
18:02
ward: reasons and she was right to do it, it wasn't her decision to make.
18:06
bill: I mean, well, I mean, do we know that he was indigenous?
18:11
Evan: I guess we don't.
18:13
ward: I mean, we don't have we don't see him being like front shitted out on Kanari.
18:19
ward: So, I mean, there's that.
18:21
bill: But we don't know that.
18:22
ward: Marva is adamant that she put fest on all of his fucking paperwork that she
18:28
ward: never told anybody except for only people that are dead that he was from Qunari.
18:33
bill: That's a good point.
18:33
ward: Yeah, like she was adamant about that. She started grilling him about who did
18:37
ward: you tell that you're from Qunari. So more than likely he's born on Qunari.
18:41
bill: Yeah, you're probably right based on that, yes.
18:43
Evan: And it's very problematic too for the Empire knowing that he's from there.
18:47
Evan: Like that is a very big sticking point.
18:48
bill: I don't, I mean, I think Ward is pretty much, you know, up like,
18:53
bill: yeah, it's like, she didn't really have that choice.
18:55
bill: She didn't, you know, have, you know, the, I guess the right to make that decision for him.
19:00
bill: But at the same time, like it's still like, she was a child. She, he was, yeah.
19:07
ward: No concept.
19:08
bill: It's not like, okay. But it's not like it's made very clear that whatever happened
19:14
bill: on that planet, all the adults.
19:16
bill: these kids were basically like left to like
19:19
bill: figure it out like they were not that was not a
19:22
bill: society that was not a a functional society that was you know they were rebuilding
19:28
bill: in the wake of everyone being dead and the likelihood that they even survived
19:34
bill: past that regardless of what the empire seems unlikely because the planet was like painted for all.
19:39
ward: Yeah like for me it's the for
19:43
ward: me the reality on canari is there are
19:46
ward: no adults because more than like the the empire took
19:49
ward: all of them for slave labor for the mines and given
19:53
ward: what we've learned in episodes one through six they had
19:56
ward: child uh work camps too child
20:00
ward: slave camps too so he was
20:03
ward: next you know him and his tribe like moving
20:07
ward: from group like area to area group to group whatever they're
20:10
ward: doing however they're surviving dude it was just a
20:12
ward: matter of time that they're about to get rounded up by the empire and put
20:16
ward: to slave camps too and that's not even including the
20:19
ward: immediate context of hey they fucking
20:22
ward: killed a dude at a fucking empire imperial
20:26
ward: uh craft crash site and now
20:29
ward: that like they're sending a fucking force to fucking kill
20:32
ward: him so like and knowing and what we get told like within the story that there's
20:37
ward: no survivors of canary like it's labeled off limits it's a toxic waste zone
20:42
ward: like we know that over time it becomes so over exploited to the point of uninhabitability
20:48
ward: like that's the lengths the empires were willing to go to.
20:51
bill: I feel like it's implied that basically something went wrong like because for it to go that fast.
20:59
ward: I want to take it as like they went full bore like who gives a fuck just keep drilling and.
21:06
bill: Then yeah but that's what i mean like.
21:07
ward: That seems like empire they went so.
21:08
bill: Far so fast they awoken something from the deep.
21:12
Evan: From the minds of moria.
21:13
ward: I
21:14
bill: Wasn't gonna say that.
21:15
Evan: All right all.
21:16
bill: Right i was referencing it i didn't say it.
21:19
Evan: But well but and that's that's the purpose of having those child laborers right
21:23
Evan: they can they don't care about them they can let them get you know who knows what kind of disease or.
21:29
ward: Are they gonna uprise against you they're half as tall as you.
21:32
bill: Yeah.
21:32
Evan: Yeah.
21:33
bill: We've already talked about this, you know, like the kids.
21:35
ward: And also sometimes they yearn for the mines, like.
21:41
bill: And it's going to have a blast. In rare form.
21:46
Evan: Once you sort of get these kind of flashbacks, it's basically giving you a lot
21:49
Evan: of context as to where Andor is coming from and then why he's then sort of saved.
21:55
Evan: I kind of put that in quotation marks from Ferex and then kind of recruited,
22:00
Evan: which we don't get till about episode, I think three,
22:02
Evan: I think it's when we learn, you know, that he's being recruited to be this,
22:07
Evan: you know, person that we're going to have this large scale, you know, heist.
22:12
ward: No, we learned that episode one.
22:14
Evan: Do we learn episode one that he's recruiting him?
22:15
ward: So he goes to talk to Bix after he killed the two Corpo cops.
22:20
ward: He's like, hey, call your guy. I got something that he's really going to want.
22:24
ward: And Bix says to him, he's been wanting to meet you.
22:27
Evan: Oh, you're right. You're right. I forgot about that.
22:30
ward: And I'm pretty sure that is due to info we get, I'm pretty sure, episode three,
22:37
ward: whenever they get, when Tim rats out fucking Cassian Andor to the fucking Corpo,
22:44
ward: and they pull up his rap sheet, and he's got a rap sheet for insurrection,
22:48
ward: damage of government property, and assault on an Imperial officer.
22:52
Evan: Yeah, yeah, okay. So all this information, we definitely know that is known by Luthan.
22:57
ward: Yeah, so I'm pretty sure- Yeah, Luthan knows it because Bix has told him,
23:01
ward: plus he's got all his connections-
23:05
Evan: He knows where he's from the whole time.
23:07
ward: He knows where he's from. He knows that he killed the two corpos.
23:10
ward: He probably knows his rap sheet too.
23:13
ward: And he knows that he's been working with Bix to get all this Imperial gear and sell it.
23:18
ward: Like they've been in cahoots with Bix. He's been helping out Bix. Like, you know?
23:22
Evan: Yeah. And especially given the fact that if like the Imperial,
23:24
Evan: he's, the way that it's interesting, we can also talk about this too,
23:28
Evan: that at some point, maybe it's worth it now.
23:30
Evan: But like, so Luthan's character is sort of like the recruiter and he's acting
23:33
Evan: sort of has this go-between to set up all these different things in different places.
23:38
Evan: But what do you think about the organization that they have as far as the revolutionaries,
23:45
Evan: whatever you want to call this resistance group?
23:49
Evan: It seems like they have a very strong organization just on the one planet we learn about.
23:55
ward: Yeah, I think it's very strict. There's layers of anonymity and layers of secrecy
24:02
ward: and need to know and i think it's beautifully well done i mean how the fuck else would you do it it's.
24:08
bill: Very clearly based on like you know cell-based organization and
24:11
bill: you know in in the matter that in this situation
24:14
bill: that it is it would need to be operated that you you don't
24:17
bill: we don't have the the veneer of
24:20
bill: bourgeois liberalism in this story
24:23
bill: is it's all that it's purely a veneer and it's only for it is only for show
24:30
bill: amongst the upper class like the upper class the lower class do not have access
24:36
bill: to bourgeois democracy at all and the only way to resist it is through that kind of thing.
24:41
ward: I think i i think i'm remembering the one instance of like liberalism in this show oh.
24:47
Evan: Let's hear it.
24:48
ward: Um first half is the commandant's son,
24:53
ward: who doesn't want to wear his imperial jacket for the general inspector that's coming down.
25:01
ward: And like, oh, I'm going to be sick.
25:04
ward: He's always sick. His mom's like, oh, yeah, I think he's going to be sick.
25:09
ward: He's always sick. That's like it. I feel like that's the only example I got.
25:13
Evan: I mean, if that's all you got, then I'd say, again, kudos to them making this.
25:21
Evan: kudos to you tony gilroy that's.
25:24
ward: Purely just like a kid shying away from not wanting to be a part of an empire
25:28
ward: like that's it it's bad i'm.
25:31
bill: Gonna grow up to be an anarchist.
25:32
Evan: Well so
25:35
Evan: and the other thing so they have this very strong organization we
25:38
Evan: have like basically now andor is now being recruited like
25:41
Evan: the scene where luthan and he are in that sort of like warehouse and
25:44
Evan: they're escaping is like also the most like such a badass scene like
25:48
Evan: it just shows how like you know you you sort
25:51
Evan: of see in the very first episode how strong of
25:55
Evan: a character and how good and or is at you know fighting and all the different
25:59
Evan: things he's you know being smart and being able to get away and all these skills
26:02
Evan: he has but like every episode you see him open up more of those skills and you
26:08
Evan: see why luthan needs him for you know their cause yeah.
26:11
bill: Like when he when they when they go through the plan on how to fly the thing
26:15
bill: he's like you don't even know what you're doing you don't even know how to you
26:17
bill: don't even know that it's like i'm flying it because you don't even know what.
26:22
ward: Would you have done if i wasn't here.
26:23
bill: Yeah what would you have done if i wasn't here yeah when he says that it's like
26:27
bill: so like and he's just so like frustrated because it's like yes they are disciplined
26:32
bill: and they but they've also they've
26:35
bill: done all the like they've done all the organizing and like the like,
26:40
bill: deal stuff but like none of them clearly have done actual leg work shit that
26:47
bill: he has done and he's like look at you amateurs.
26:50
ward: I mean i mean oh man it'd go into pass our episode limit but i'd say we could
26:57
ward: do like a breakdown on like the full um the heist crew if you will.
27:02
Evan: Oh the.
27:03
ward: Rebellion heist crew and like their backgrounds we could do a whole but like
27:06
ward: that's kind of spoiler-ish.
27:08
Evan: Yeah um.
27:09
ward: For post i mean.
27:10
Evan: That would be good that maybe do a break one yeah.
27:13
ward: We could do a break breakdown on their whole background and i'm gonna say like
27:16
ward: kind of a typical leftist organization you know that makeup like it's just saying.
27:23
Evan: Well i also love when andor is when they're
27:26
Evan: doing the marching and he specifically calls out the fact
27:28
Evan: that like the left-handed guy has to be on the other side of things like that's something
27:31
Evan: i think like when they saw that almost they're
27:34
Evan: all like shit this guy actually but we would
27:37
Evan: have been fucked if you weren't here yeah yeah like he's
27:40
Evan: clearly he can memorize like plans overnight like
27:43
Evan: they literally made him spend like one night
27:46
Evan: remembering a plan that they had spent six months or a
27:48
Evan: year or something planning and he just is like boom i got it you
27:52
Evan: know this guy is clearly uh has his shit together and so
27:55
Evan: kind of like wall we don't need to maybe go into all the like the
27:58
Evan: failure of them trying to capture andor and the
28:01
Evan: you know all of that necessarily but once he is on
28:04
Evan: the planet that there that we talked about before which is
28:07
Evan: uh alda alda aldani aldani okay
28:12
Evan: it's just the way that's spelled has me uh has the
28:14
Evan: h in there the aldani so anyway we have
28:17
Evan: like the we have them all in aldani they have them kind of we sort
28:20
Evan: of constantly have things happening on two different planets at one time so
28:23
Evan: at this point now he's left ferricks we have aldani and now we have the stuff
28:27
Evan: that's happening on coruscant And I think it's worth talking about sort of the
28:31
Evan: now the organization of there where we have this woman who is a member of Congress
28:36
Evan: who's sort of like you could call her maybe a senator,
28:40
Evan: a senator. Right. So is she like AOC?
28:43
Evan: But like if AOC was like cool and working for the revolutionaries,
28:47
Evan: because she's like a progressive politician, right?
28:49
Evan: Like she's clearly talking about trying to help trade routes and get A to people and very much.
28:54
Evan: But then she's also spending money for the revolution. So like that can't be. overlooked.
28:59
ward: Trying to spend money.
29:02
bill: I would not compare her to A.R.C.E.
29:04
Evan: I was just being a jackass.
29:05
bill: Because that would be insulting to her character.
29:08
ward: I mean, there's movies out that let us know what Mon Mothma's doing and eventually does.
29:16
bill: She is spending money. What she is trying to do at the point we need her is
29:22
bill: cover up what she has already spent and spend more.
29:26
bill: She's not, it's not that she hasn't been able to spend money.
29:29
bill: She has already been funding the revolution.
29:31
ward: Well, it got all locked up.
29:34
bill: Right. It got locked up. And yeah, like, and now she needs to cover up what she already said.
29:39
Evan: Like yeah she.
29:40
bill: Is there you go you know what there you go in reality you know in the real world
29:47
bill: and i'm not including aoc in it.
29:49
Evan: I know i was just being an ass about it i believe.
29:52
bill: Aoc has been an opposite day one fucking before she was in there she was she put there for a reason.
29:59
Evan: Here's my like counter argument to that she's funding it so that's she's been funding it so but.
30:05
bill: That's what i'm saying it's the most.
30:07
ward: Liberal facade i will give you the liberal facade is the most liberal thing
30:12
ward: but like i'm still gonna go with mine for like the inherent.
30:15
Evan: But when she joined when she became a politician she likely wasn't at that point
30:19
Evan: funding the revolution probably right do you think she was recruited we don't
30:22
Evan: ever really know i don't think like do you think she was recruited and joined
30:26
Evan: as an op but on the revolution side i.
30:29
bill: Don't know because she it is well we would have to go past our point yeah we'd.
30:35
Evan: Have to reference.
30:38
ward: Something past episode six i know what you're.
30:41
Evan: Talking about let's go back more than likely.
30:43
ward: She was recruited though.
30:45
Evan: Yes okay so we'll we'll uh we'll scratch that you'll you'll you'll you'll know
30:50
Evan: this by who well yes and so the you gotta get.
30:54
ward: Them back to the second one evan come on.
30:56
Evan: Yeah yeah okay that's fair Podcast and one-on-one.
30:59
ward: Let's do this.
30:59
bill: I think Mon Motha's character is important from the perspective of,
31:05
bill: because she gives us an inside view of mechanisms of the Empire and how it gives,
31:12
bill: it hand waves bourgeoisie.
31:17
bill: It presents a facade of it for specific classes of people.
31:22
ward: Yeah, because, I mean, you have all the people at, like, the dinner party,
31:25
ward: like, those fancy Coruscant dinner parties just talking about politics.
31:29
ward: I mean, while we see elsewhere in the galaxy the reality of those policies and those politics.
31:35
Evan: Exactly. They do a really good job of, like, showing those two sides.
31:38
ward: It's so great, bouncing back and forth. And, like, yeah, no,
31:41
ward: like you're saying, Bill, Mon Mata is so important.
31:44
ward: And I think it's so great that she is funding it because it shows that like,
31:48
ward: hey, this is the empire's biggest, most vocal liberal critic.
31:53
ward: And yet she has even come to terms with that's not enough. I need to do more.
31:58
Evan: Yeah. And they even like.
31:59
ward: God, this show's good.
32:00
Evan: Well, so here's another thing we haven't talked about. That's sort of that's
32:04
Evan: we talked a little bit about like the, you know, the that Mussolini kind of
32:08
Evan: fascism where we have the combination of the state alongside of the corporations.
32:13
Evan: But we also should talk about an interesting character.
32:16
Evan: And I'll also talk about a quote that came from the the creator and writer about it.
32:21
Evan: And so that is we have a whole group of people that are on Coruscant that are
32:27
Evan: basically CIA intelligence officers collecting information about all the different sectors.
32:33
Evan: sectors, you know, they're controlling, you know, one person controls these
32:37
Evan: four planets, and they're looking at intelligence and how they can essentially
32:40
Evan: stop potential revolutionary activity. And I think it's interesting talking about that.
32:48
Evan: The character I'm referring to is Deidre Miro.
32:50
Evan: She is sort of a imperialist security bureau, I guess, against the same idea, CIA type of thing.
32:56
Evan: How do you think that that plays into this? Because you never really see this underlying,
33:02
Evan: bureaucracy i guess if you will of the empire in like the other movies you get
33:07
Evan: maybe oh you know there's people on the big ship that darth vader is on and
33:12
Evan: they just like figured out something but this is actually by.
33:15
ward: Darth vader because.
33:16
Evan: Yeah like for not so this is actually showing you what that looks like i mean
33:19
Evan: i guess in some of the other tv shows there's some of this but i find that entire
33:23
Evan: aspect of this uh pretty cool and interesting how they show it and kind of building
33:29
Evan: you know which will later lead to what happens in the second half of the season
33:33
Evan: but her character is interesting.
33:35
ward: Oh yeah no i i really enjoy like that whole aspect it's basically like the inside
33:41
ward: the empire cia point of view it's like it's really interesting concept like
33:46
ward: i was really surprised like seeing it for the first time i was like yeah this is great um.
33:52
bill: This system it's about a
33:55
bill: system not about a person you know they talk
33:57
bill: about the emperor the the senators talk about the emperor and
34:00
bill: pure overreach but like heidra
34:04
bill: and her whole you
34:07
bill: know storyline shows that this is not about orange man this is not about one
34:12
bill: person it's about a system people populated by individuals actively seeking
34:19
bill: to control thought movement you know and freedoms of the population if you are aware of,
34:27
bill: you know, you can draw a parallel, go that far, and, you know,
34:30
bill: like, actually draw a parallel, you know, to the real world, and you can,
34:34
bill: put the pieces together like oh no it's like michael parenti says you know like
34:38
bill: he talks about people go oh they don't care what i think oh they do that's all
34:41
bill: they care about and that's that that's her whole job.
34:44
Evan: And what's and so you brought you mentioned like it's not
34:47
Evan: just orange man bad one of this brings in the two notes that i saw from like
34:51
Evan: the creators is one one of the co-stars uh fiona shaw describes kind of like
34:56
Evan: she plays the um marva so marva apparently referred to the show and kind of
35:02
Evan: the themes as being like modern day, kind of in this Trumpian world.
35:06
Evan: And Gilroy was sort of like, no, it's not meant to be that.
35:09
Evan: It's meant to just kind of take this overarching concept. And I think that actually
35:13
Evan: shows through very well in that it isn't just simply like, oh,
35:17
Evan: this is about Trump and this is about this and about that.
35:20
Evan: This is taking all of those things and putting it, as you're saying,
35:23
Evan: like the system is the problem and it's not just like one person.
35:26
Evan: And then the other thing that they mentioned about Miro's character,
35:31
Evan: Deidre, His character is that they brought her in to kind of show how deep the
35:35
Evan: Empire, the Imperial side is just, it's not just this one thing.
35:39
Evan: He wrote, he literally, the quote is literally, we have a very,
35:41
Evan: very, very deep dive into the Imperial side of the story.
35:44
Evan: And I think that's what you get. And it's not the surface level.
35:47
Evan: The same thing I said at the beginning where all the characters have this growth in it, including her.
35:52
Evan: She sees that she has to play the game of the CIA. And it's super interesting.
35:57
bill: Yeah. the empire the emperor is like like never like he even the the senators
36:03
bill: like the rich people like even they like like oh you know he's the emperor they're
36:07
bill: like you know charlie brushed him off almost it's like he's secondary they even
36:11
bill: acknowledge in it like how almost how little important he actually has who's a way thing,
36:17
bill: done and like the impact on people even as they rapidly fail to do anything
36:23
bill: about it they're like yeah he's not really the problem like he's he's actually not the issue.
36:27
ward: I mean like i guess star wars has always done like
36:30
ward: or has done a decent job of like portraying it's
36:34
ward: like i mean it's not like white supremacist eugenics fascism like there's minorities
36:41
ward: there's there's not just white people in the empire like it's fascism fascism
36:47
ward: is what's going on like whether or not you're on board it's this is what we're doing it's fascism.
36:53
Evan: Yeah that's true and i think about like i'm just
36:56
Evan: thinking about how they all wear their you know with the
36:58
Evan: exception of like officers and people inside anytime they're
37:02
Evan: going outside they're wearing their little stormtrooper white uniform
37:06
Evan: type of deal thing i don't know just you mentioned they're not like white supremacists
37:10
Evan: but they're human supremacists but i think that's a a good point and the uh
37:15
Evan: the like the bureaucracy too is like very thick though where at any moment like
37:21
Evan: you have that security force on uh on the um,
37:26
Evan: on ferricks and then they take over the
37:29
Evan: empire is like you know fuck off you guys sucked at doing
37:32
Evan: this we're gonna now take over and it's it's it just shows too that they have
37:37
Evan: the ability to muscle the way through even like giant corporations or I guess
37:42
Evan: you don't really know how big this security corporation is and could just be
37:46
Evan: operating on this one planet but they're able to just bend to their will because it.
37:51
ward: Seems like most almost all the corporations are contracted to the empire.
37:55
Evan: Yeah something like that they're gonna profit in some way still.
38:02
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38:36
Evan: I was going to bring up one of the characters as part of the heist on Aldani,
38:43
Evan: but I'm wondering if I want to wait a little bit to the second one where we dive into them.
38:48
Evan: But I'm going to ask this question anyway, and I'm actually going to bring this
38:50
Evan: up because this is actually what led to me thinking about this show to do as
38:55
Evan: an episode. So I was going to do this episode like over a year ago.
38:58
Evan: It's been a long time since the first season came out. was like a long delay
39:01
Evan: because of the writer's strike and all these different things.
39:04
Evan: But there is an article that came out about the showrunner claiming that this
39:09
Evan: show is based loosely around Stalin and Lenin's actual bank heist or heist to
39:17
Evan: fund the revolution in 1907.
39:21
Evan: And so that leads me to the question of is, if that is the case,
39:25
Evan: who do you think is, you know, the Lenin and the stalin characters in this if
39:31
Evan: there is one this is like this is like a stupid question but i'm gonna ask it
39:34
Evan: anyway is is luthan lenin.
39:38
bill: I think so.
39:38
Evan: Yeah he's got to be right isn't it starts yeah l yeah l l and l and i rest my god yeah.
39:48
ward: Got it done voyard yeah do we need to explain i thought you had ears why are you listening.
39:54
Evan: To this podcast all right.
39:59
bill: Yeah i mean i think just from like though i mean i don't want to i don't want
40:04
bill: to jump ahead but you know just on the notes here is you know you mentioned
40:08
bill: nevic i know that's the part i.
40:10
Evan: Didn't want to get to but you can i mean no.
40:12
ward: No that's no that's within.
40:13
Evan: Yeah yeah.
40:14
bill: It happens it happens all within.
40:16
ward: Six the first six.
40:17
bill: I think i i think that i mean literally nevic's dead.
40:21
ward: At the end of six that's true yeah.
40:23
bill: So you're never saying it weird to say you know who is lenin i think luthan
40:29
bill: and nemec together are the different aspects.
40:32
Evan: Of it the the the force and then the ideas combined together.
40:35
bill: Yeah like i don't think i don't think nemec is carl marx.
40:39
Evan: I know that that was more because.
40:41
ward: He wrote a manifesto.
40:44
bill: Yeah lawyered wow like he did not write you know like he wrote a a manifesto
40:53
bill: on struggle and revolution.
40:55
ward: Yeah, charting the,
41:00
ward: thought of political consciousness and this one navigates the stars.
41:06
bill: You know, I don't I think together the two of them would represent life.
41:11
Evan: I think it's called the trail of political consciousness.
41:14
ward: Yeah, trail of political consciousness. Yeah, because I mean,
41:17
ward: you got even Shitty Skeen who's like, dude, this kid is the whole reason we're here.
41:23
ward: We're doing all this. Granted, he doesn't know about Luthan. But,
41:28
ward: Like, even as shitty as he was and how he wanted to bail on the whole fucking
41:32
ward: thing, he was in that moment willing to say, like, hey, this kid is the whole reason we're here.
41:39
bill: I did think that was a weird character.
41:41
ward: Yeah, Skeen was a really weird character turn once they got to the doctor.
41:46
Evan: Yeah.
41:46
bill: That was a weird turn.
41:48
ward: I didn't appreciate it.
41:50
bill: Neither did I.
41:51
ward: I wanted more from him. I was like, this guy's got it. Like, let's do this shit.
41:56
bill: He's a good actor. he's good and stuff i like him and stuff but like just in
42:00
bill: general like it seemed a weird character trying like i feel like it was done
42:04
bill: just to further cast's story and i feel it was disservice yeah.
42:09
Evan: Yeah i mean i think that they're like they're what
42:13
Evan: they kind of give like the little insights you get about him
42:15
Evan: which is very limited all the people on the plan on the like in the
42:18
Evan: heist crew are not exactly all very open
42:21
Evan: with their information because they don't want people to know
42:24
Evan: about them which actually leads me to a couple like of the scenes
42:27
Evan: with nemec the first one is when he was telling him about the
42:31
Evan: manifesto and he says i haven't titled yet
42:33
Evan: i've been waiting it's a work in progress and i know there's a great deal left
42:36
Evan: to say i mean look right here fresh inspiration two seemingly random objects
42:40
Evan: yeah this charts an astral path and this maps the trail of political conscience
42:44
Evan: both systems based on truth both navigating towards clear and achievable outcomes
42:48
Evan: and then right after that they
42:50
Evan: ask him like what he believes And Andor says, I know what I'm against.
42:54
Evan: Everything else will have to wait. And then he says, you're my ideal reader.
42:57
Evan: So like, it's very clear he's writing this, this manifesto and Andor fits into
43:02
Evan: what he wants because he has, I guess you could say he has class consciousness,
43:06
Evan: but he doesn't really understand how to fight his enemy or like.
43:10
ward: He's still operating on an individualist mindset and looking for survival.
43:17
Evan: Which is exactly what Luthan tells him right on the ship. when they're coming
43:21
Evan: over. He's like, you're thinking small.
43:23
ward: Yeah.
43:23
Evan: You're thinking of this one object.
43:25
ward: Let's fight him for real. Yeah.
43:26
ward: it's like because let's look at it let's look at it for real whether you're
43:31
ward: going to do it with me or do it on your own you're going to die fighting these
43:34
ward: motherfuckers you're going to die fighting these sons of bitches whether it's
43:38
ward: with me or without don't you want to give it your all yeah like luther knew and.
43:43
bill: Like from an organizational standpoint it's like you're going to die one or the other.
43:48
Evan: Which i think is uh actually it
43:51
Evan: makes the show less liberal because a more liberal or
43:54
Evan: maybe or critiquing of it because you see people
43:57
Evan: who are I guess you could say like baby leftists or progressives that
44:00
Evan: say like they will talk about oh capitalism is bad or
44:03
Evan: you know the system is bad but then rather than saying
44:06
Evan: like oh well we need an entire new citizen they're
44:09
Evan: like well we could like do these little fixes and like fix
44:12
Evan: it right like they're they're not thinking of the the
44:15
Evan: whole I don't think Andor is like that far behind in the sense that
44:18
Evan: he clearly is committing robberies and doing
44:20
Evan: all these things to try and fight against the
44:23
Evan: people who killed his parents and did all his awful things like he has a a real
44:28
Evan: gripe but i think uh it's very clear they're showing the listener like us the
44:32
Evan: watcher that the viewers that there is something evil beyond this and they actually
44:38
Evan: are trying to figure out a way to both fight it and then replace it.
44:41
bill: Which is its biggest flaw because it is never stated what Wilbur plays it.
44:49
Evan: No show or movie like ever does. Like that's the flaw.
44:52
ward: I mean, to some credit, it takes place in a galaxy far, far away long, long ago.
44:59
ward: So maybe they didn't have the word communism or Marxist-Leninism.
45:02
ward: But also against the show, they had completely unmodified AK-47s.
45:12
ward: Which, then again, for the show.
45:15
bill: They had AK-47s.
45:16
ward: Makes me feel like you know the the design
45:19
ward: of the ak-47 is just so ideal and
45:23
ward: not just spans time but galaxies and so that you know if you were like a poor
45:31
ward: farmer peasant anywhere in a backward galaxy but you needed a reliable slug
45:35
ward: thrower ak-47s there for you buddy well.
45:40
Evan: Skein gets shot with like that other cool pistol it's called um i just looked
45:45
Evan: it up i had like a list of like the like the weapons like the bw 20 by briar
45:51
Evan: pistol which is like this.
45:53
bill: Pistol is awesome.
45:54
Evan: Yeah it's dope.
45:55
ward: Yeah it's sick,
45:57
ward: But I like that there's just, like, plain, unmodified, underbarrel AK-47s.
46:03
Evan: So, are you saying that the revolutionary group is the USSR? It's the Soviet Union?
46:08
ward: I mean, I just like the idea that the blueprint and design of the AK.
46:15
ward: I'm a gun guy. I like guns a lot. That's, like, my biggest-ism.
46:20
ward: I just like the idea that the design spans galaxies, that you need a reliable slug, though?
46:27
ward: Here you go. You can make this motherfucker out of stamps, sheet metal, and it'll work for you.
46:32
Evan: I mean, it was developed by the Soviets. I mean, clearly that's the,
46:36
Evan: you know, the... Is it different?
46:38
ward: He was a tractor maker.
46:40
bill: Yeah.
46:40
ward: Like, he designed...
46:41
Evan: Kalashnikov, right?
46:42
ward: Kalashnikov. Yeah, he made tractors and farm equipment. Then he designed the
46:45
ward: AK-47. He got asked why, and he's like, if it wasn't for the fascists, I wouldn't have made it.
46:50
bill: Yeah.
46:50
Evan: That's fucking badass.
46:51
bill: He just wanted to make fucking tractors.
46:54
ward: That's all he wanted to do.
46:55
Evan: He's like, I can't kill fascists with fucking tractors. Yeah. Like, maybe a couple.
47:03
ward: You can, but it's hard.
47:05
bill: It takes a while.
47:07
Evan: They got really close to you.
47:09
bill: They go stand still. They run around. You got to fucking... And tractors don't move fast.
47:13
ward: Like, Leprechaun made it easy because he, like, tranced the guy to walk into
47:16
ward: one. But, like, you don't got those powers in regular real life. You know what I mean?
47:22
bill: It was a steamroller.
47:23
Evan: Yeah, and look, they didn't have the force yet. in this or like there's no one
47:27
Evan: in this that had the force they couldn't just stand there while we tractor you force.
47:31
ward: What don't wash it i don't need it you want shows great.
47:34
Evan: So i was watching i've recommended
47:37
Evan: this show to a lot of people like before they had watched it
47:40
Evan: a lot of them had watched the first episode or half of like it's kind
47:43
Evan: of slow like this isn't that good and i'm like you just got to keep
47:46
Evan: watching i think by episode three it gets
47:49
Evan: like really good even though i don't agree that the first two episodes are that
47:53
Evan: slow honestly but when you get to like by episodes five and six it's pretty
47:57
Evan: incredible how it just uh immediately goes from like a five to an eleven like
48:04
Evan: the entire heist is just awesome and it uh i.
48:08
ward: Mean how is episode one slow he's literally on the run from the fucking law
48:13
ward: from the jump street like i don't.
48:16
bill: Know i found it slow in the first one and dark when like that like beginning
48:21
bill: of the first episode it was dark and slow i actually i came back to andor i
48:26
bill: did not continue i enjoyed it when i first came out.
48:30
ward: Evan do you share those sentiments.
48:31
Evan: So i did not i watched the first two episodes so i think i watched did it did
48:37
Evan: it come out in a way that we're like you have to wait each week i don't i don't
48:40
Evan: think i watched it like right it did okay so i don't think i watched it,
48:44
Evan: I think I maybe watched the first three.
48:45
ward: I waited until it all came out and then I watched all of it.
48:48
Evan: I watched a couple episodes in a row, like two or three.
48:51
ward: All right, cool. That's all I needed. So, Evan, me and you can feel cool about
48:54
ward: having good opinions about Andor, while Bill has terrible opinions about Andor.
49:00
ward: And then, Bill, me and you are cool about Blade Runner 2049,
49:06
ward: because Evan's so lame for some reason.
49:11
bill: He hates feeling over.
49:12
Evan: Yeah.
49:13
ward: Okay, like, I kind of get that, but, like, it's Blade Runner 2049. It's good stuff.
49:20
Evan: I will not comment on this.
49:23
ward: It's primo shit.
49:24
bill: Listen, I redeemed, I came around big time.
49:27
Evan: Yeah, that's fair. Here's another, like, I'm curious what you think the past is.
49:32
Evan: How do you think it is that Luton comes to have this, like, very strange sort
49:37
Evan: of, he obviously has his two personas because he has to blend into this rich society.
49:42
Evan: Oh, he has this weird store that just sells like antiquities,
49:46
Evan: which also seems kind of fucked up that he's selling sort of he has to do it
49:51
Evan: like it's his cover. I get it.
49:53
ward: Well, I mean, well, you got to think about it this way is with Luton's position
49:58
ward: in society with everything that he has currently.
50:01
ward: You think he got that as a cover for what he's doing? To me,
50:07
ward: that is what his life was.
50:10
Evan: Okay. That makes a lot worse.
50:11
bill: I think that's radical.
50:13
ward: I think it's so beautiful, the scene of him coming back to Coruscant on his
50:18
ward: ship, where he's got to put back on the facade.
50:22
Evan: Yeah.
50:22
ward: Which, the facade being the person who he used to be, who he no longer is anymore.
50:29
ward: Because he's now a revolutionary.
50:31
Evan: Oh, so- here's a theory. What if when to me.
50:34
ward: That was absolutely beautiful. You can even see him like practicing his mannerisms.
50:39
ward: As soon as he's got all his clothes and jewelry and accoutrement on,
50:43
ward: he's like practicing his mannerisms.
50:45
ward: And you can see even in his face, it fucking pains him that he has to come back
50:50
ward: to this instead of do what he needs to do.
50:52
bill: That is a hell of a scene.
50:54
ward: It's beautiful. It's a fucking masterpiece.
50:58
bill: Yeah, seriously.
50:58
Evan: What if he, during his, based on what you're saying, which makes a lot of sense that that was his job.
51:04
Evan: What if he acquired things from Qunari and then like looked into it and is like,
51:11
Evan: shit, like the empire fucking destroyed this planet.
51:15
Evan: And then that's how he comes across Andor doing his research on Qunari.
51:19
Evan: And then that's kind of leads him down the path.
51:21
ward: I don't think that's how he comes across Andor.
51:24
Evan: No.
51:25
ward: Oh man god i want to do tiny spoiler
51:29
ward: outside the episode but like
51:33
ward: his assistant like we learned that his assistant does most of the recruiting
51:39
ward: like she recruited several members i mean it's entirely possible she's the one
51:45
ward: who radicalized them working at this hell exactly like you're saying,
51:51
ward: you study history long enough, working as his assistant,
51:54
ward: not benefiting from the wealth herself directly.
52:00
Evan: That's true.
52:01
ward: That's a possibility.
52:03
Evan: He's a worker. I mean, he might be like, he's still a worker,
52:06
Evan: but he's, uh, you know, the capitalist in a very, not a real way,
52:11
Evan: more like just a business owner, but you know what I mean?
52:14
bill: He's, he's petite bourgeois.
52:16
Evan: Yeah. But if he has this person working for him, like she's getting paid probably,
52:20
Evan: you know, less, she's not, she's also could be the one studying and realizing
52:25
Evan: all of these things getting class conscious and,
52:29
Evan: slowly drips it to him. I don't know.
52:32
bill: I think it's really kind of beautiful, but also bittersweet.
52:39
ward: Absolutely.
52:39
Evan: He might as well learn the second half. Star Wars universe.
52:43
bill: Just on so many levels. Just so complicated, but beautiful and sad.
52:49
ward: Especially in the second half. Definitely watch that as well and then come back
52:54
ward: to this podcast as we'll be covering that as well.
52:57
Evan: We will. And then once you've watched the entire 12 episodes,
53:01
Evan: listened to this, two episodes of this, then you'll be primed for season two, which...
53:06
Evan: We all know it's going to be fucking awesome. I did not even watch the little
53:10
Evan: teaser trailer. I'm like, I'm not going to watch it.
53:13
ward: Dude, that was just a screenshot that I sent you.
53:16
Evan: I know, I know.
53:17
bill: By the way.
53:18
ward: I'm not watching that. Yeah, no, I know. He was so cool.
53:21
bill: He's like, I'm not watching that. I'm like, it's not even a trailer.
53:23
ward: It's not even a video, dude. I screenshotted it purposefully.
53:28
ward: I don't watch trailers. I have admitted this so many times. I don't watch trailers
53:32
ward: either. I hate watching trailers.
53:34
bill: It was like as i scrolled on twitter i.
53:38
ward: Took this screenshot and then kept scrolling because i thought it was funny all right oh yeah.
53:43
bill: I'm not watching that i'm not watching it someone uh it's.
53:47
ward: A picture but okay the.
53:48
Evan: Only the only time you i'll watch a trailer is like when you're in a booth here
53:52
Evan: and there's like nothing you can do you're like i guess i could just like close my.
53:55
ward: Oh no i look at my phone i zone completely into my phone and actually try to
53:59
ward: show up like like i try to time it like as like the last trailer i show up a little late oh.
54:05
bill: Yeah i really don't.
54:06
ward: Like watching trailers.
54:07
bill: I love trailers i watch trailers uh but i have not watched all right bill's got bad,
54:13
bill: opinions on trailers speaking of
54:16
bill: trailers though uh the just you know a little tidbit for you know those of you
54:20
bill: who hate trailers um four movies don't have trailers or at least non-shot two
54:24
bill: no trailer we got there like on the nick of time and jackie's like oh we'll
54:29
bill: have plenty of time trailers and she like texts me while i'm like in the bed
54:34
bill: but it's starting there's no trailers oh.
54:36
Evan: That's wonderful yeah it's it's the thing about like especially a show where
54:40
Evan: they do a trailer they're gonna have little bits from any of the 12 episodes or the 12.
54:46
bill: Episodes of.
54:46
Evan: The season you don't want to like even i understand.
54:49
bill: I don't like show trailers.
54:51
Evan: Right because it's well even movie trailers where they like half the time they
54:55
Evan: give away like 60 of the movie in that two and a half minutes you're like fuck you know so.
55:01
bill: Because i will watch plenty of movies and most of them i don't care about they're
55:05
bill: not important or special in any way shape or form but like some movies that are like,
55:10
bill: like things I actually care about, like movies made by a certain someone about
55:14
bill: like, you know, a movie on a planet.
55:17
bill: It's like desert shit. Like, you know, that one, I won't watch that trailer,
55:21
bill: despite having read the books multiple times, but you know, the ultimate in
55:25
bill: spoilers, but you know, Oh.
55:27
ward: It's killing me knowing there's like a Bong Joon-ho film coming out soon.
55:32
ward: And like big fan, but like, I can't, I don't watch trailers. I can't do it.
55:38
Evan: I read the book.
55:39
ward: I'm not going to look it up.
55:39
Evan: So i i read the book for it i i cannot wait the book.
55:43
ward: Is see i don't even know what the book is like i don't even know that much like
55:46
ward: i just know it's bong june ho like that's and that's got me excited enough as is it's.
55:51
Evan: Gonna be it's gonna be really funny it's gonna be it's gonna be awesome.
55:53
ward: Yeah until just like having read the book and.
55:55
Evan: Knowing i won't say anything else i mean i'm not describing it.
55:58
ward: What's the what's the book.
55:59
Evan: It's just called mickey seven.
56:00
ward: Okay oh.
56:02
bill: That oh i didn't i.
56:04
ward: Don't even know it's very funny i don't perfect perfect.
56:07
Evan: Casting too one thing i wouldn't even mention is there's so you think of a show
56:11
Evan: like this like isn't funny there is lots of things that are broken up to make
56:16
Evan: it funny at times we're not just like it's constantly serious.
56:20
ward: Serial moving having to move back in with
56:23
ward: his mom after losing his job because he didn't listen
56:26
ward: to his fucking boss from the get-go
56:29
ward: you know what i mean the boss told him hey you know
56:32
ward: write this up as an accident dude this like dude they
56:35
ward: fucked up you don't call uncle harlow we
56:39
ward: gotta call uncle harlow uncle harlow will know what
56:42
ward: to do gotta kiss his ring first yeah but
56:45
ward: like i love that like that's his like initial arc
56:48
ward: that we get for the first half of the season you know
56:51
ward: like he's this he's this aspirational fascist
56:55
ward: bureaucrat who like goes out of the way to get his fucking
56:58
ward: uniform tailored with additional piping and whatnot
57:02
ward: and he fucking
57:05
ward: doesn't listen to literally common sense fucking
57:08
ward: advice from the dude who's actually been doing this so much
57:11
ward: fucking longer than him even though he's also
57:14
ward: a cop piece of shit but at least
57:17
ward: he's not aspirational wanting to fucking climb the imperial fascist ladder piece
57:23
ward: of shit he's like i'm just trying to maintain my position but he's got some
57:29
ward: real understanding like no these dudes fucked up they're on fucking job they
57:32
ward: shouldn't have been in the establishment they were drinking what they were,
57:37
ward: like no they fucked up call it up an accident right of today but he wouldn't
57:41
ward: listen wanted to pursue it and then has to go live with his mom it's great.
57:48
bill: Also like they came to like he came to that because again it's material condition,
57:56
bill: When you, when you have a branch, you have a point, you know,
57:59
bill: it's like you go fascism and they're both predicated on material conditions
58:03
bill: and the desire to better material conditions.
58:06
bill: And you have options and it's like some people fall came from a place where
58:12
bill: apparently all they eat three meal a day is fucking cereal and blue milk.
58:17
ward: Which I mean, looking at that is a lot better than like most of Ferrix.
58:23
Evan: Right. So one thing I was going to mention about it too, that's interesting that,
58:28
Evan: which is like a other, that you brought up of like the material conditions is
58:32
Evan: in a normal equitable system, you know, assuming he's not like this terrible
58:36
Evan: security guard doing nefarious and evil shit.
58:39
Evan: Imagine he just has some like middle level job and he loses it.
58:42
Evan: He can't even like fall back.
58:44
Evan: There's like no social safety net in the empire either. Right. You lose your job.
58:49
ward: He immediately had to move in with mom. Immediately had to move in with mom.
58:53
Evan: Yeah.
58:54
ward: Like he might be, he might be an aspirational fascist, but he's still due to
58:58
ward: the nature of his condition, still a prisoner of the system because he's doesn't
59:02
ward: own any means of production.
59:04
ward: He's not in some elite position where he's untouchable.
59:08
ward: He immediately lost his fucking job. Didn't even get to read the report. Oh fuck.
59:14
ward: um you know like got told immediately
59:17
ward: like you're done you're let go like you're gone had to move back in with mom
59:22
ward: had to rely on uncle harlow to get like you know but even though he still supports
59:29
ward: it he's still within the confines even though he might be fully for it he's
59:33
ward: still within the confines.
59:36
Evan: In episode two of this podcast, we will be drinking blue milk together.
59:42
Evan: Whatever animal that comes from, I don't know exactly.
59:44
ward: We're going to find it, and we're going to get some blue milk.
59:47
bill: We're going to get it.
59:49
Evan: It's just milk that's been sweetened with Froot Loops.
59:54
Evan: They sweeten it, and then they put it into a container, and then they use it
59:57
Evan: again for milk. It's like recycled milk.
1:00:00
ward: It's probably recycled milk, yeah. Knowing the Empire, they're not giving out
1:00:05
ward: the good stuff to lower classes.
1:00:07
bill: Yeah, that's the recycled milk from the upper classes.
1:00:10
Evan: All right, so I have the answer. It's blue milk, also known as Bantha milk.
1:00:15
Evan: It is because it comes from female Banthas.
1:00:19
ward: I mean, yeah, we could be technical about it, I guess.
1:00:23
Evan: I have to throw in these. I don't get too much hate mail from the Star Wars fans.
1:00:29
bill: Yeah.
1:00:29
Evan: That's for you.
1:00:30
bill: He's already going to get prepared.
1:00:32
ward: Oh, yeah, he's getting so much.
1:00:35
Evan: Oh, man. Yeah,
1:00:39
Evan: but we will touch on all the characters that we did not talk about,
1:00:43
Evan: and we will do a deep dive, I think, into the crew of the heist,
1:00:48
Evan: because I think that's going to be... We didn't even talk about some of the ones on there.
1:00:51
ward: Yeah, we'll get a little bit more of their backgrounds, and so we can actually
1:00:54
ward: delve into all the aspects, because I'm telling you, it's a typical leftist
1:00:59
ward: work, you know? The makeup.
1:01:03
Evan: It really is. It really is. And, uh, yeah.
1:01:06
Evan: So if, if you're, if you're listening to this, you, you have time,
1:01:09
Evan: there is time for you to watch episodes seven through 12.
1:01:12
Evan: In fact, why are you not watching it right now? Yeah.
1:01:18
ward: Go back and watch, like, if you haven't watched it, watch one through six and listen to this.
1:01:22
ward: So if you're listening to this, then, you know, as soon as this is done,
1:01:25
ward: which is like, now you gotta watch seven through 12.
1:01:29
Evan: Yeah, that is, that's correct.
1:01:30
ward: Everyone out there, And then wait like we are doing for season two.
1:01:34
bill: And then watch Rogue One.
1:01:36
ward: Oh, yeah, you should do that.
1:01:38
bill: And then you're done. You don't need to watch it anymore.
1:01:40
ward: Yeah. Which I got. We got to talk about an inconsistency in episode two of this
1:01:45
ward: between Rogue One and this.
1:01:48
Evan: I think I know what you're going to say. We'll save that.
1:01:50
ward: Okay.
1:01:51
Evan: We might even have to do an episode on Rogue One, perhaps.
1:01:53
ward: I mean, he could have been lying, but whatever.
1:01:57
ward: He's easily passed it off as lying.
1:02:01
Evan: But we will leave it there. uh bill and
1:02:04
Evan: ward we will and i will return in a very near future to discuss and or episodes
1:02:11
Evan: seven through twelve of season one you'll have to sit on the edge of your seat
1:02:15
Evan: while you while you wait for that um but bill and ward thank you again for uh
1:02:20
Evan: gracing left of the projector with your presence thank.
1:02:24
ward: You for having us.
1:02:25
Evan: Of course and um stop listening right now and go uh watch Andor watch.
1:02:30
ward: Yeah, go watch.
1:02:32
Evan: If you listen to this right now, it means you are not watching Andor right now.
1:02:35
bill: Yeah, there's nothing else past this. Do what we said. There's no more.
1:02:38
Evan: I'm going to cut this off mid-length.
1:02:41
ward: Andor and Rogue One, do it if you wanted to watch the rest.