Latest / age / Ep. 08: Vlogs, Content Pressure & The Democratization Lie

Transcript

Ep. 08: Vlogs, Content Pressure & The Democratization Lie · age

• 0:00
  Dylan, what was your favorite part of today's podcast?
• 0:04
  Um, my favorite part is when I was computing when Tim put me on the spot.
• 0:08
  Oh, that was good. Will, you got a favorite?
• 0:11
  I liked making prolonged eye contact with Dylan.
• 0:14
  Offscreen.
• 0:16
  So?
• 0:17
  My favorite part was when Will yelled off screen what blog came from.
• 0:20
  Oh, yeah. Oh, I forgot about that.
• 0:22
  My favorite part was when Dylan walked off camera entirely.
• 0:27
  Let's go find Reggie.
• 0:30
  Reggie, what was your favorite part of today's podcast?
• 0:34
  My favorite part was when Tim was going on a rant about portfolios.
• 0:39
  And he said, what are you going to do?
• 0:41
  You're like, I'm going to make a portfolio.
• 0:44
  That was good.
• 0:52
  All right, I'm at the end of today.
• 0:59
  This is Age, the podcast.
• 1:01
  We have a long-ass conversation about a topic.
• 1:03
  We randomly pull out of a trash can.
• 1:05
  But what is it really?
• 1:07
  Well, thank you for asking.
• 1:09
  This podcast, I wrote this on the way to the podcast this morning
• 1:13
  because I'm always trying to figure out how to explain this podcast.
• 1:16
  Just, he does an opening night.
• 1:17
  The podcast is a room.
• 1:18
  Like about the Nellhoes.
• 1:21
  I'm being disrupted.
• 1:22
  The podcast.
• 1:26
  I have this desire to understand what things are.
• 1:29
  And so I'm trying to think about what this is.
• 1:30
  We're doing it.
• 1:32
  It's raw.
• 1:32
  It's unfiltered.
• 1:34
  But essentially, it's a reminder of who we are
• 1:36
  in an over-edited and monetized world.
• 1:39
  And it's what happens when four career creatives,
• 1:41
  Dylan Garcia, Mary Green, Reggie Tidwell,
• 1:46
  and myself, Tim Scrogs, we're building
• 1:48
  in Creative Agency in Asheville, North Carolina,
• 1:50
  remove the agency polish and just let you
• 1:53
  in on the real thoughts that are in our heads.
• 1:56
  Sometimes it's brilliant.
• 1:58
  Sometimes it's elegant.
• 1:59
  But most of the time, it's just us being plainly ourselves.
• 2:03
  And that is something we need a reminder of in this world, I think.
• 2:07
  Anyway, let's pull the trash.
• 2:09
  Let's pull the trash.
• 2:10
  Let's pull the top.
• 2:10
  Before we do.
• 2:11
  Out of the trash cans.
• 2:12
  I need to let Reggie take off the elephant in the room,
• 2:16
  which is today is Reggie Tidwell's birthday.
• 2:19
  Yeah.
• 2:20
  I brought this out.
• 2:22
  Yeah, very nice.
• 2:23
  They're making me wear this.
• 2:24
  Happy birthday.
• 2:25
  For Glitterwell.
• 2:26
  Thanks, guys.
• 2:26
  Happy birthday.
• 2:27
  Happy birthday.
• 2:28
  Yeah.
• 2:28
  Sorry we didn't.
• 2:29
  I'm 35 today.
• 2:30
  Yeah.
• 2:31
  Well, yeah.
• 2:32
  And you look great.
• 2:33
  Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
• 2:35
  Yeah, this is the 30s couch.
• 2:36
  Yeah, the 30s couch.
• 2:39
  I pulled that out and Will gave me eyes immediately.
• 2:42
  Like, Mary, the fabric swishing has been bothering him
• 2:46
  and the likes.
• 2:46
  And now I've added this clanky, clanky chain.
• 2:50
  So it's a little, just a little, just a little gift
• 2:54
  up laying off.
• 2:55
  So you guys got to see it.
• 2:58
  Exit stage left.
• 3:00
  Happy birthday, Reggie.
• 3:01
  I remember wonderfully done.
• 3:03
  You see it, guys.
• 3:04
  Ready?
• 3:04
  Yeah.
• 3:06
  I knew you'd love the stage reference.
• 3:07
  This is like a lottery.
• 3:08
  It's really good.
• 3:11
  Like the bingo.
• 3:12
  Yeah, bingo thing.
• 3:13
  There you go.
• 3:14
  OK.
• 3:15
  Hopefully it's a good one.
• 3:16
  Oh, it will be a good one.
• 3:19
  It gives it to Will.
• 3:23
  It's like, it just was making sure it's on the right.
• 3:26
  What was it?
• 3:27
  The vlog.
• 3:28
  The vlog.
• 3:29
  The vlog.
• 3:30
  The vlog.
• 3:31
  The vlog.
• 3:32
  I mean, here we are.
• 3:33
  I don't know.
• 3:33
  I say the vlog.
• 3:34
  Did Dylan put that in there?
• 3:35
  No, I don't know.
• 3:36
  You don't anymore.
• 3:37
  I mean, I put all of these in here.
• 3:39
  I wrote all of these.
• 3:40
  But did you write that one?
• 3:41
  Nothing.
• 3:41
  I don't know.
• 3:42
  Guys, how sweet that you think any of us
• 3:44
  would remember which ones we'd wrote.
• 3:46
  Yeah, in case you're wondering, these topics
• 3:48
  are definitely a vlog.
• 3:50
  A stream of consciousness that we sat down
• 3:52
  and just started writing.
• 3:54
  So there are some hot topics in there.
• 3:55
  There's some random topics.
• 3:57
  There are some spiritual topics.
• 3:59
  And then there are some like this.
• 4:01
  The vlog.
• 4:01
  We'll be the other vlog.
• 4:02
  What is the vlog?
• 4:03
  Like what?
• 4:04
  We're also thinking like, OK, what might people
• 4:07
  from different generations have a different take on?
• 4:09
  And one of the big ones was technology
• 4:11
  and things that came to exist after the internet.
• 4:14
  And so I think we probably threw a couple in there.
• 4:16
  We were like, let's see what the log happens.
• 4:21
  Well, I find this one completely uninteresting.
• 4:23
  So he says on his blog on your blog that we're doing.
• 4:30
  It's a contract to the way I'm drawn to it.
• 4:34
  But I guess, vlogs, I guess podcasts
• 4:37
  are the new vlogs.
• 4:38
  Like, it's just the essentially the same thing.
• 4:41
  RNG in our own new and unique way.
• 4:43
  That's true.
• 4:44
  Yeah, I'm just a podcast.
• 4:45
  A video podcast totally of a vlog.
• 4:47
  Yeah, right?
• 4:48
  What came to mind when you read vlog?
• 4:50
  I'm a big consumer of vlogs.
• 4:52
  Or as some people say, vlogs.
• 4:54
  Vlogs.
• 4:55
  No, I'm a big consumer.
• 4:57
  Do they still exist separate from podcasts?
• 5:01
  Is there an actual?
• 5:02
  Have you been on YouTube?
• 5:04
  Like in the past, like, he's watching.
• 5:06
  But see, I would consider those podcasts.
• 5:08
  Because this art show is on YouTube.
• 5:10
  Yeah.
• 5:10
  Would we not call it, would we call it a vlog?
• 5:13
  I don't think.
• 5:14
  When I think vlog, I think one person looking directly
• 5:16
  to camera, which, like, these days,
• 5:19
  more of what I watch are like video essays.
• 5:21
  It's less just, like, here's all my thoughts on stuff.
• 5:23
  And more like, here's a topic that I got really into.
• 5:27
  But I'm sure people are still, like,
• 5:29
  didn't we talk about Amber Chamberlain all this time?
• 5:32
  Yeah, Amber Chamberlain is one of my big vlogs.
• 5:33
  She's considered a vlog.
• 5:34
  Yeah.
• 5:35
  See, when I think of vlogs, I think of, like, unboxing videos,
• 5:39
  you know, the tech brothers on there with their, like,
• 5:42
  that is kind of a vlog.
• 5:44
  I'm like, I'm gonna open up this new drone, like that.
• 5:46
  We're, like, travel vlogs.
• 5:48
  Travel vlog, yeah.
• 5:49
  Yeah, that's a vlog, everything.
• 5:51
  No.
• 5:53
  It didn't happen.
• 5:54
  The moment's past.
• 5:55
  The moment's gone.
• 5:56
  You gotta do it all over again.
• 5:57
  Another eight months.
• 5:58
  I just wait for someone to dig it up.
• 6:00
  Travel on the world.
• 6:01
  This is an experience of his life.
• 6:02
  This is so magical.
• 6:03
  Oh, yeah.
• 6:04
  Post-humansly.
• 6:08
  Post-humansly.
• 6:09
  Yeah, are we, so, like, you find it,
• 6:12
  you're totally disconnected with this topic.
• 6:14
  So what?
• 6:15
  I mean, what?
• 6:17
  Maybe.
• 6:18
  I mean, let's see.
• 6:19
  I think maybe it's the word.
• 6:20
  Like, I don't know.
• 6:20
  People have changed the B out for a reason.
• 6:22
  Well, that's, I was wondering because vlogs,
• 6:24
  from, from, like, the time I was a tween probably,
• 6:27
  to now, that has been a concept in my life.
• 6:31
  But I was just thinking for a y'all,
• 6:32
  if it didn't probably exist.
• 6:35
  Perfectly.
• 6:36
  It's a while I was doing it earlier.
• 6:38
  Like, five phases.
• 6:40
  It's, it's the season.
• 6:41
  We have a dusty room.
• 6:43
  We'll just start a countdown.
• 6:44
  Like, you're ready to get number one.
• 6:46
  Oh, my God.
• 6:47
  We'll see how far we get.
• 6:48
  We just work our way through the panel.
• 6:49
  Yeah, we'll go right down.
• 6:51
  No, I was wondering if you remember when,
• 6:53
  well, do you remember when blogs came to exist?
• 6:56
  And do you remember when people started doing vlogs?
• 6:59
  And did you have feelings about it then?
• 7:01
  That's where my negative feelings come from.
• 7:03
  That's why I was like, cringey, definitely cringey,
• 7:06
  from day one.
• 7:07
  I definitely remember the influx of vlogs
• 7:12
  all over the place.
• 7:13
  But I guess I had my own vlog on LinkedIn.
• 7:16
  Now that you say that.
• 7:17
  Yeah.
• 7:18
  And it's straight up a vlogger.
• 7:19
  I was going to say yours would be like
• 7:21
  the epitome of a vlog.
• 7:23
  Yeah, you're sweet.
• 7:23
  It's like a view with your mic looking into the camera
• 7:27
  going blah, blah, blah.
• 7:28
  Don't we become the thing that we hate?
• 7:30
  All right.
• 7:31
  So I like vlogs.
• 7:32
  I like vloggers.
• 7:34
  My actions speak louder than my words.
• 7:36
  When you tell me that you hate social media,
• 7:38
  and I'm like, yeah, I get it that like as a concept you hate it.
• 7:41
  But actually, I think as a tool,
• 7:43
  you're really interested in it.
• 7:44
  I am, but I, so I hate what it's doing to our culture.
• 7:47
  That's the, I like, when I first started in social media,
• 7:52
  it was my space.
• 7:53
  And I was in a band.
• 7:55
  And.
• 7:55
  Oh, so you're on my space for like the reason people
• 7:58
  are on my space.
• 7:59
  Totally.
• 8:00
  And it was early before everything started becoming like glitter
• 8:02
  and you're exploding in the background.
• 8:04
  Don't hate.
• 8:05
  Was this pretty big?
• 8:06
  I mean, my heritage was glittering cat.
• 8:08
  I know.
• 8:08
  And it was cool, but it took over my space and took it down.
• 8:11
  Yeah.
• 8:12
  Like it couldn't handle that much glitter.
• 8:14
  RCS styling just got there.
• 8:16
  There was no way that many cats can survive.
• 8:18
  That was too much on my face.
• 8:20
  What if they brought my space back?
• 8:22
  Are they tried?
• 8:23
  Yeah, they tried hard.
• 8:25
  Because my space was, was the dominant social media thought
• 8:28
  was like this little thing that was ever going to happen.
• 8:31
  Yeah, well, you had to credential at one point,
• 8:33
  you had to credential to get in.
• 8:34
  Like, just through your college for my space.
• 8:36
  And that was that was Facebook.
• 8:37
  Oh, Facebook.
• 8:38
  Yeah.
• 8:38
  And I really think that's the thing that made it solid.
• 8:41
  If I'm a fear that we have about like warm networks
• 8:43
  and like exactly relational networks.
• 8:45
  Yeah.
• 8:46
  So the, and I, I had a friend who was in college.
• 8:48
  So I couldn't, I wasn't in college at the right age.
• 8:50
  I went to college way later in my life.
• 8:53
  But I had a friend who was on Facebook.
• 8:55
  And he was telling me all about it.
• 8:56
  And I was like, OK, I'll join.
• 8:58
  And he says, you can't.
• 8:58
  You have to have a dot.
• 9:00
  He's like, you're going to be college, bro.
• 9:02
  I was inviting you.
• 9:03
  So I was bragging.
• 9:04
  Yeah.
• 9:05
  You have to have a dot.edu email address.
• 9:06
  I was like, what?
• 9:08
  And it was kind of the first time where I was like,
• 9:10
  and now I want in.
• 9:11
  Yeah, I was like, I'm being exclusive.
• 9:13
  You're like, damn, how do I get into this club?
• 9:15
  Right.
• 9:16
  And I was all over my space.
• 9:17
  And it was my space for the world.
• 9:18
  This is why he doesn't like social media.
• 9:20
  Yeah, they want you to have him wounded a little.
• 9:23
  They burned him and now he hasn't come back.
• 9:25
  No, but literally Facebook started
• 9:27
  because they were judging people's faces.
• 9:31
  What's right?
• 9:31
  That's how it started.
• 9:32
  They would, they would, like, who's hot?
• 9:35
  Who's hot?
• 9:36
  Who's face?
• 9:37
  Well, they wouldn't show you that probably.
• 9:38
  But no, that's the background of it was, it was a Facebook
• 9:42
  faces that they would, like, rate or something or talk about.
• 9:45
  Oh, that's interesting.
• 9:46
  There used to be a host like that.
• 9:48
  Yeah, that was just like, like, rate the face.
• 9:51
  Yeah, or something.
• 9:51
  Rate my professor, they have all these.
• 9:54
  I was talking about somebody about rate my professor
• 9:56
  at the other night, and I can't remember who, anyway.
• 9:59
  But I feel like social media.
• 10:01
  So vlogs are part of social media.
• 10:03
  I think now it's like a requirement.
• 10:06
  There's no way you can make content
• 10:07
  without some sort of video component.
• 10:10
  And so maybe vlogs are making a comeback
• 10:13
  because it could be also AI-generated content is...
• 10:17
  I feel like there's a divergence, though.
• 10:19
  There's definitely vlog alive and well.
• 10:21
  We've snippetized it like everything else.
• 10:24
  We made it like the 22nd, whatever.
• 10:26
  And a lot of like comedians I think are getting a start
• 10:29
  because they're able to give you like a tight 60-second snippet.
• 10:32
  And you're like, that was really funny.
• 10:34
  But I think there's also this other path of like,
• 10:38
  people either taking photographs
• 10:40
  or curating images from the internet
• 10:42
  and just like putting the right song over it
• 10:45
  or putting a voice over it.
• 10:46
  With the Ken Burns effect.
• 10:47
  But do you think, but would that be considered a vlog?
• 10:50
  Like is there a criteria for it to be considered a vlog?
• 10:53
  Like does your face need to be on it?
• 10:55
  Probably so.
• 10:56
  I think that's what I'm saying is like,
• 10:58
  yes, the vlog is alive and well.
• 10:59
  And I think there are a diverse,
• 11:01
  multiple other pathways of content online.
• 11:05
  But I do think a vlog is like one or two people looking to camera,
• 11:10
  like intentionally breaking the fourth wall,
• 11:12
  talking to the viewer on the other side.
• 11:15
  Like this.
• 11:16
  That was so cute.
• 11:17
  So we're glad you're here.
• 11:19
  Yeah, let's do a four person vlog.
• 11:20
  Let's do a four person vlog.
• 11:23
  We're all breaking a fourth wall right now.
• 11:25
  I think all four of us staring somebody down
• 11:27
  would be a lot.
• 11:28
  Are you looking down the night with me?
• 11:29
  I'm looking at the middle of the three cameras.
• 11:33
  The three cameras?
• 11:34
  There's three little lenses.
• 11:35
  Yeah, you're right in the middle of it.
• 11:37
  Okay, camera here.
• 11:38
  Okay.
• 11:40
  Okay, DSLR, G3, Q, whatever.
• 11:43
  Okay.
• 11:44
  Did you do it too?
• 11:46
  No, she's like guys.
• 11:47
  She's like this is cringey.
• 11:51
  I am not participating.
• 11:52
  What did you ever think about starting a vlog?
• 11:55
  Pardon me, a vlog.
• 11:56
  This is going to be embarrassing.
• 11:58
  And will I'm not giving you any of this.
• 12:00
  Oh my gosh.
• 12:02
  This is the lead of this last week off Facebook.
• 12:04
  Yeah, off Facebook.
• 12:07
  I am listening.
• 12:08
  I think my generation was heavily
• 12:12
  and is still heavily influenced by the vlog.
• 12:15
  Like just like you seem so serious about it.
• 12:18
  I am.
• 12:19
  What the vlog has done to you?
• 12:20
  Your vlog has changed my life.
• 12:22
  I don't know how to feel about it.
• 12:24
  No, I remember the area of GoPro's.
• 12:27
  Yeah.
• 12:28
  Like GoPro was like a form of vlogging.
• 12:30
  Did you go pro with, did you run with your GoPro on?
• 12:34
  I wish.
• 12:35
  There's still time, baby.
• 12:36
  But when I was, when I would live in Florida,
• 12:38
  I would put it on my surfboard.
• 12:39
  And there's so many videos of me wiping out
• 12:41
  and taking like, I was going to spend a nice breath.
• 12:43
  Gladly.
• 12:44
  So cool.
• 12:45
  Yeah, so, but the reason I,
• 12:47
  the reason I thought like the vlog changes our generation
• 12:50
  because there's so many of like my friends
• 12:52
  that we will watch vlogs to like be informed.
• 12:55
  Yeah.
• 12:56
  Or if it's like, I, it's news almost.
• 12:59
  It's news.
• 12:59
  Culture news.
• 13:00
  Yeah, it's news.
• 13:01
  It's also kind of like, philosophically, philosophically.
• 13:04
  Philosophy, I was like, Mary was saying like someone
• 13:06
  like talking to you about their opinion.
• 13:08
  Yeah.
• 13:09
  I don't know.
• 13:10
  I feel like I was kind of curated from the blogs
• 13:12
  of my life of like, all that, yes.
• 13:15
  We're seeing it.
• 13:16
  You're a product of the blogs.
• 13:18
  I am.
• 13:19
  I like it.
• 13:19
  And I'm proud of it.
• 13:20
  Where do vlogs sit in like your media diet?
• 13:24
  So like, there's all kinds of media you consume in a day.
• 13:26
  One might be you're listening to Spotify in the studio.
• 13:30
  One is you're listening to your favorite podcast
• 13:32
  on your way to work.
• 13:33
  Maybe you watch Netflix.
• 13:34
  I don't know what other streaming services,
• 13:36
  but like, what percentage of that is watching vlog content?
• 13:41
  Right now, from my life, it's like 25.
• 13:43
  Really?
• 13:44
  Wow.
• 13:45
  That's a big percentage, a quarter.
• 13:46
  It is, but I also think it just gives like a world
• 13:48
  of like exploration.
• 13:50
  Sure.
• 13:51
  If I want to watch a vlog on like somebody doing this
• 13:53
  or like travel was a big one for me,
• 13:55
  like actually seeing people in real time
• 13:57
  and being like, would I like to be there?
• 13:59
  Would I like to like sit in there?
• 14:02
  Then also just seeing kind of like curating your own taste
• 14:06
  through other people's taste, through their blogs
• 14:09
  in the way they like showcase how they want to like be perceived.
• 14:13
  So big product of the blog.
• 14:16
  I have to say, I probably now that I really think about
• 14:20
  what I consume on like social media,
• 14:22
  my percentage might be more than 25%
• 14:25
  because I'm thinking about all the political commentary,
• 14:29
  all the lifestyle commentary people talking about,
• 14:32
  like health influences and things like that.
• 14:35
  Those are all technically bloggers.
• 14:36
  It's one person holding up a little DJ mic like this,
• 14:40
  talking to camera, looking into the camera.
• 14:43
  Those are all bloggers.
• 14:45
  So lots of blogs might be the most important
• 14:48
  vlogger online right now.
• 14:49
  Yeah, I don't have my thoughts
• 14:51
  because I have this, how this affects brand and everything.
• 14:54
  I don't take my thoughts.
• 14:55
  Take a look.
• 14:56
  Oh.
• 14:57
  Yeah.
• 14:58
  Is that what you were just going to say?
• 14:59
  Take a look.
• 15:00
  I was like, guys, watch TikTok.
• 15:02
  I was like, take a look.
• 15:02
  TikTok is this full of bloggers.
• 15:05
  That's all bloggers on TikTok.
• 15:07
  It's like, do I have some TikTok in my face?
• 15:09
  What's that boy?
• 15:10
  There's a girl trapped in a well.
• 15:11
  What is it?
• 15:12
  I was like, why are we away there?
• 15:16
  I was like, why are we away there?
• 15:18
  I was like, let's see what's the most massive movement.
• 15:21
  That's the social media.
• 15:23
  Also, there's just such a huge opportunity
• 15:25
  for brands and marketing on TikTok.
• 15:28
  There's this consumerism buy-in.
• 15:30
  There's also, I don't purchase anything without listening
• 15:36
  to people vlog about it or user-generated content.
• 15:39
  That's another point.
• 15:40
  I am a well-researched consumer.
• 15:44
  I don't buy anything without googling a bunch of reviews.
• 15:49
  And ultimately, when you go to review,
• 15:50
  it's somebody on YouTube or Facebook or TikTok
• 15:54
  talking about the product.
• 15:56
  That's a blog.
• 15:57
  I'd say more like 50% of them, like Hong.
• 16:00
  See, I knew you were lying to us in the beginning.
• 16:02
  I knew you were lying.
• 16:03
  We have a negative reaction to the word vlog
• 16:05
  and where it started.
• 16:06
  I think that's what it is.
• 16:07
  Because right now, it's just called a video.
• 16:09
  It's just called a video.
• 16:10
  This video and someone's talking at it.
• 16:11
  I would know the before and after of when it didn't exist
• 16:16
  and then suddenly it did exist, what did it feel like to you?
• 16:20
  Well, it was interesting.
• 16:22
  You talk, because you got a point.
• 16:23
  I'm just going to be more high or you're always...
• 16:27
  The trees are real.
• 16:28
  No, it was not going to go into the quantum field.
• 16:30
  I was just going to say that it was...
• 16:33
  There's something I should like about it
• 16:34
  because it was the democratization of broadcast.
• 16:38
  And that was at the quantum field.
• 16:40
  It was.
• 16:41
  It was the roots coming out of the ground.
• 16:43
  Dude, I think about this all the time, though.
• 16:46
  It actually is, anyway.
• 16:48
  No, but I should like that because it's rebellious
• 16:51
  because before vlogging, there was news broadcasting.
• 16:56
  People looking at a camera, you know, like,
• 16:58
  I'm here on I26 and there's Rick, ladies and gentlemen,
• 17:01
  that's vlogging or that's broadcasting.
• 17:04
  Vlogging is someone who doesn't have the big camera
• 17:06
  as a little camera and something normal to say.
• 17:09
  Love a deli.
• 17:10
  Love a deli.
• 17:11
  Yeah.
• 17:12
  I should like vlogging.
• 17:13
  I think it's just the word.
• 17:14
  I think it's just the word.
• 17:15
  It's such a stupid word.
• 17:16
  It's got a V.
• 17:17
  And a reaction to the word.
• 17:18
  I don't even understand vlogs.
• 17:20
  I have a reaction to the word.
• 17:22
  The two hard consonants like that, starting to work,
• 17:27
  but then also, for me, the language should care about this.
• 17:31
  Yeah.
• 17:32
  We're all pretty long.
• 17:33
  The reason you don't like it is because the word,
• 17:35
  and I'm like, the reason you don't like it is.
• 17:37
  It sounds like a Russian word, like.
• 17:39
  And.
• 17:40
  You don't like it is definitely some social connotation about it.
• 17:42
  No, I was left out.
• 17:43
  I think you nailed it.
• 17:44
  I think I was left out.
• 17:45
  I felt left out.
• 17:46
  Really?
• 17:47
  Yeah, I think so.
• 17:48
  You know, interesting enough.
• 17:49
  I think I resonate.
• 17:51
  That resonates with me.
• 17:52
  I think I felt left out because here's the thing.
• 17:55
  You're a technorant like me.
• 17:57
  Anything something new comes out.
• 17:59
  You think to yourself, should I do this?
• 18:02
  Yeah.
• 18:03
  And then you're, you know, obviously trying to navigate it,
• 18:08
  it's a path you should take.
• 18:10
  And when you're a solopreneur and you're busy AF,
• 18:14
  and you don't really have time to like do this thing,
• 18:17
  and then the more other people are coming out with them,
• 18:20
  you feel like you're now having to catch up.
• 18:23
  And you're like, I didn't get started.
• 18:25
  But I feel like when I was first thinking about doing one,
• 18:29
  on whether it was design or tech or all of those things,
• 18:34
  by now I would be probably well known.
• 18:37
  I would probably be well knowing as an actual authority
• 18:42
  on whatever topic it was.
• 18:44
  Because most of the guys have to give five years of committed
• 18:47
  content even.
• 18:48
  Yeah, I mean, think about Casey Neifong and all those people
• 18:52
  that are on social media doing that.
• 18:57
  Like they ultimately have millions and millions of followers now
• 19:03
  because they started at the very beginning of it.
• 19:06
  And so there was always this anxiety like, man, should I,
• 19:09
  I should, I should, I should, but I don't have time.
• 19:11
  I don't have time and then it's, so it's fast.
• 19:13
  This is interesting and I want to know how this feels
• 19:14
  different from when you grew up.
• 19:15
  Because for us, it started out as like a thing that people
• 19:20
  wanted to do.
• 19:21
  This is how all social media start.
• 19:22
  And why we got tricked into this whole shenanigans.
• 19:26
  Is there like, yeah, those things that are fun and post music
• 19:30
  and you don't have to have a record label and you can just
• 19:32
  post things.
• 19:33
  And then all of a sudden it transitioned into you have to have
• 19:36
  this or you don't succeed.
• 19:38
  Right.
• 19:39
  And that was a hard pill to swallow.
• 19:41
  It's just like the algorithm always changing.
• 19:43
  The rules always change.
• 19:44
  Like maybe one of the first came out of work because it was new,
• 19:48
  but it has to shift.
• 19:49
  That was the next step because that keeps you trying to figure
• 19:51
  out how to get any air time, right?
• 19:54
  How to get anyone watching because your success is hinged
• 19:57
  on these things working.
• 19:58
  Like right now, this is kind of our attempt at content creation.
• 20:01
  Yeah, look how many podcasts existed before us.
• 20:04
  Oh, my goodness.
• 20:05
  That movement started before vlogging.
• 20:07
  Right, right.
• 20:08
  Did it?
• 20:09
  Maybe.
• 20:10
  I don't know.
• 20:10
  It seems like it did.
• 20:11
  I don't think we're going to have a vlogging show, right?
• 20:13
  Like the concept of people talking.
• 20:16
  Yeah, so radio show was the first version that podcasting
• 20:19
  was like the democratized version of it.
• 20:21
  Totally.
• 20:22
  You could have a microphone and a little room.
• 20:26
  And I could just do the vocals.
• 20:27
  I think the podcast just made it more accessible because a radio
• 20:30
  show is like you have a radio station with all the, you know,
• 20:34
  but for the podcast, you can like just go by a little camera kit,
• 20:38
  set up a camera and then publish directly to Facebook.
• 20:41
  That's a video podcast.
• 20:42
  Those came way later.
• 20:43
  Podcasts were just audio.
• 20:45
  Yeah, all you had.
• 20:46
  Yeah, you just had to have a microphone and a soundproof room.
• 20:49
  That's it.
• 20:49
  Yeah.
• 20:50
  So I, I do feel though that I have this chip on my shoulder about
• 20:58
  having to create having to create all this bullshit.
• 21:03
  And I love create.
• 21:04
  I think this to explain why we're doing this.
• 21:07
  It's because we are forced to create content.
• 21:09
  We are forced to try and get attention in this world.
• 21:12
  We're forced by Tim.
• 21:13
  I feel like.
• 21:14
  No, I didn't force you to do this.
• 21:16
  I kind of, I talked to you into it.
• 21:17
  I feel like I need to move.
• 21:18
  I've certainly worked around through you into it.
• 21:21
  Yeah.
• 21:22
  But I think that there's this expectation of all of us.
• 21:24
  Everyone out there right now, if you want to create a career,
• 21:27
  you have to have an audience or else you're not a trusted source.
• 21:31
  You could say otherwise you have to be visible.
• 21:33
  Well, let's see.
• 21:34
  Right.
• 21:35
  Tom Collins.
• 21:36
  Brian Collins.
• 21:37
  Brian Collins.
• 21:38
  We were trusted source.
• 21:39
  They're out there.
• 21:40
  I see them.
• 21:41
  No.
• 21:42
  If you believe it, Reggie, I'm, yeah, totally.
• 21:46
  We have to dilulu is the salulu.
• 21:49
  I just dilulu is the salulu.
• 21:51
  Gotta do it.
• 21:52
  Yes.
• 21:53
  Yeah.
• 21:54
  Well, this is a non-secward or maybe not,
• 21:56
  because I think I can tie it back in to the topic.
• 21:58
  See what you can do.
• 21:59
  But you said, chip on your shoulder,
• 22:01
  and it's mainly made me think of this real
• 22:03
  that I saw the other day, which I think
• 22:05
  reels are sort of a real, it's a, it's a, it's a,
• 22:11
  it's a real, a real.
• 22:14
  My skin's crawling right here.
• 22:15
  It was, it was a whole area when I'm letting you down.
• 22:18
  It was a hilarious prank.
• 22:20
  This, this older guy sitting at the table,
• 22:23
  he's having dinner with his family or his family and friends.
• 22:26
  And his wife, I guess, comes around and puts a chip on his shoulder.
• 22:29
  That's, he's already talking about a topic.
• 22:31
  And so he's saying, well, you know, I just don't know
• 22:33
  why they have to do that.
• 22:34
  And then somebody said, you know, you got a chip on your shoulder.
• 22:36
  I don't have a chip on my shoulder.
• 22:38
  So he gets, he just gets so heated.
• 22:41
  Everybody keeps saying it.
• 22:42
  But why do you have a chip on your shoulder?
• 22:44
  He's like, I don't have a chip on my shoulder.
• 22:46
  I just think that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:48
  And he's like, no, you have a chip on your shoulder.
• 22:50
  And then somebody comes over and touches it.
• 22:52
  And it disarms him completely.
• 22:54
  But it was hilarious to me.
• 22:55
  Everyone loves me in the butt of a joke.
• 22:57
  They do.
• 23:00
  So are you or saying you want me to, you want to be the butt of the joke?
• 23:03
  I feel like, I do feel like in this world,
• 23:06
  if you can't perform, you are the butt of the joke.
• 23:08
  Like you, you're not a trusted source.
• 23:11
  If you're not in a video, you don't have,
• 23:13
  the epitome of power right now is an audience.
• 23:16
  That is, you have the power if you have an audience.
• 23:19
  If you don't, you're, you don't need anything in the world.
• 23:22
  The thing that's cool about this format is that you can start off with
• 23:27
  an audience.
• 23:28
  But this is what they tell you.
• 23:29
  But then once you get to a point where you actually are making some traction,
• 23:33
  you have an audience, even that earlier content gets picked up.
• 23:37
  People will, hopefully at some point, I mean, I know it certainly happened with me
• 23:41
  where I'd discovered a podcast or a vlog.
• 23:47
  And I'm like, this guy is really insightful.
• 23:55
  And so then I'll go back and look at the earlier stuff.
• 23:58
  Yeah, but this is not a lot of these things start and continue with them saying,
• 24:06
  you just have to start with the little thing and then you'll be famous someday.
• 24:11
  I think if you're doing it for fame, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
• 24:16
  But why else would you take your time?
• 24:18
  Does anyone know how long it takes to make a vlog?
• 24:20
  Does anyone tried?
• 24:21
  Apparently they do.
• 24:22
  I've tried and mine's not even that good.
• 24:24
  It takes hours.
• 24:25
  People that are making really high-end edited vlogs are spending night and day on these things.
• 24:30
  We don't understand the sacrifice.
• 24:32
  My kids don't understand the sacrifice.
• 24:33
  They're YouTube being, they're live streaming.
• 24:35
  What I'm saying is that they'll tell you that these things are easy or that you can just start.
• 24:42
  And I think it's a little bullshit.
• 24:44
  I think what you'll find is a couple people will be successful
• 24:47
  and they're the ones that they hang the carrot up where you could be this.
• 24:50
  You'll have about a million thousand followers.
• 24:52
  But they don't cover the millions of people who are doing the same amount of work,
• 24:56
  making the same amount of content, getting no play, getting covered up, getting concealed.
• 25:02
  Because it largely doesn't work.
• 25:04
  That's what I'm saying.
• 25:05
  The thing you see, you're seeing those things, not because you're accidentally saw them,
• 25:10
  because the algorithm is showing you for a reason.
• 25:13
  Whether it's the narrative, they want you to believe something, or they want you to buy something.
• 25:17
  It's all on purpose.
• 25:18
  I don't understand why we still think that we're just kind of stumbling on the cool content.
• 25:22
  That stuff not works.
• 25:23
  Or hot take.
• 25:25
  Unless you're searching for that content directly.
• 25:28
  Do they have such a good understanding of their personal brand and their selves
• 25:33
  that they are succeeding in your algorithm?
• 25:37
  I think that's something about that.
• 25:39
  I mean, that's what all the branding tutorials will tell you.
• 25:41
  And I understand why you would think that.
• 25:42
  Because they are teaching us, you have to know your brand, you have to be clear.
• 25:45
  But they're not showing you the thousands who know their brand,
• 25:48
  who are making the content relevant to who they are and are not getting played.
• 25:52
  What I'm telling you is they're not showing you the failures.
• 25:54
  They're only showing these successes so that you think it's possible
• 25:57
  so you think there's hope.
• 25:58
  Can I, this is a stance that I hold often on this podcast.
• 26:02
  I think that the four of us here have a shared definition of success
• 26:06
  because we're trying to do something together.
• 26:08
  We're like, I'm trying to get paid to be a creative, help companies solve their challenges
• 26:14
  that could be solved through design, things like branding.
• 26:16
  And, you know, have a great time doing it.
• 26:19
  And so that's sort of, there's probably some things that I've missed,
• 26:22
  like our metric of success on this.
• 26:23
  But one of the key things we have to have to do it is money.
• 26:26
  So we're kind of like hoping that one day this will feed some sort of vicious circle
• 26:31
  and help us get paid to, you know, offer what we offer to the world.
• 26:37
  But I think that sometimes, Tim, when you start to get really jaded about these systems,
• 26:42
  I think it's because you're trying to make the system work to make you money.
• 26:46
  And I think you got to kind of let go and say,
• 26:49
  what if the role of media out in the world has to have a purpose?
• 26:54
  Like my reason for making it.
• 26:55
  How are you going to spend eight hours a day and not make money?
• 26:59
  That's a great question.
• 27:00
  No one has the ability to do it unless you're full of the rich.
• 27:02
  That's an artist, Tim.
• 27:03
  I know, but how do they make money?
• 27:04
  What do they make money?
• 27:05
  That's the problem is we don't value art.
• 27:07
  And so we're not paying for any of that.
• 27:09
  But I'm saying the democratization, and we'll put that in quotes
• 27:12
  because we have an issue with how those elections are run.
• 27:15
  And when I, when you talk about the vlog scenery as like,
• 27:21
  oh, yeah, is the algorithm rewarding?
• 27:23
  What's good or is the algorithm rewarding, you know,
• 27:26
  whatever it wants to incentivize?
• 27:28
  Like, we're basically saying the election is rigged
• 27:30
  if you're going to use the word.
• 27:31
  Like up will.
• 27:32
  Yeah, sorry, but I'm just, I'm saying like,
• 27:36
  I think that you have to let go of it making you money.
• 27:40
  And then it can work differently.
• 27:42
  And you can hack the system in a different way that might one day make you money.
• 27:47
  I understand the metric and I agree with you.
• 27:49
  I totally agree with you.
• 27:50
  I don't let go of making money.
• 27:51
  I'm just saying, how do you survive not making money?
• 27:55
  And that's the real problem.
• 27:56
  They require, but the algorithm is doing it wrong.
• 27:59
  No, I'm saying, no, it's not that.
• 28:01
  It's that you've been forced to do it now.
• 28:03
  It is the requirement of your career.
• 28:05
  Yeah.
• 28:06
  That's what I'm saying.
• 28:07
  I'm not saying it's wrong to make a video.
• 28:09
  People have been making performances before a time.
• 28:12
  It's just how much record time.
• 28:14
  How much meaning do you put on that video
• 28:16
  and how much significance do you put on it
• 28:18
  in terms of being part of your money making?
• 28:21
  If you're going to take large swaths of your life
• 28:25
  and give to something,
• 28:27
  and you're not going to get anything back from it,
• 28:29
  you're just doing it as an offering as a free gift of artistry.
• 28:32
  What is that?
• 28:33
  What kind of...
• 28:34
  I mean, some people say that they get fed.
• 28:36
  Like, there's a nourishment in the making of the thing.
• 28:39
  But also buying food is a nourishment that has happened.
• 28:41
  Absolutely.
• 28:42
  I'm saying, do they have to be coupled?
• 28:44
  And you're trying to make the argument like these days, kind of, yeah.
• 28:47
  I mean, there will always be these people that just love
• 28:49
  what they do so much.
• 28:50
  They just want to do it for free all the time.
• 28:52
  And everyone can watch me.
• 28:53
  No one pay me.
• 28:54
  I admire people that are like that,
• 28:56
  and they're far and through between.
• 28:57
  I think the only way that works is if you're getting paid a different way.
• 29:00
  Yeah, like working bars all night while you make videos or games.
• 29:03
  Or nothing, maybe, and your parents are floating you.
• 29:05
  Yeah. Well, I'm saying the wealthy do have a leg up
• 29:08
  because they can make this content.
• 29:10
  They can get the attention.
• 29:11
  They can do the advertising.
• 29:12
  They don't have to work.
• 29:13
  I've got one particular example that I think helps him's case.
• 29:17
  I have a friend.
• 29:18
  We have a mutual friend who's son at one point was like,
• 29:22
  oh, we all have a mutual friend.
• 29:24
  That was just going to be, I'm just going to become like he was really big
• 29:29
  into like Peter Kenning or whatever's in like all these.
• 29:33
  Peter Pan?
• 29:34
  No, no.
• 29:35
  He's a, he's a, he is a YouTube vlogger who talks about mostly like text,
• 29:42
  like video text.
• 29:43
  Same as the Casey guy.
• 29:45
  Yeah.
• 29:46
  But basically Casey nice that.
• 29:48
  That's his name.
• 29:49
  You say Casey knife.
• 29:50
  Yeah.
• 29:51
  He was our friend.
• 29:52
  I don't think he has to be a vlogger.
• 29:53
  I don't think he has to be a vlogger.
• 29:54
  And he would follow these guys and it made it look easy.
• 29:58
  He's like, oh, they're just talking about the thing they love.
• 30:00
  I want to do that.
• 30:01
  His dad was like, dude, that's not realistic.
• 30:05
  And it's as a parent who is a kid who you're still supporting
• 30:10
  who's not a wealthy parent.
• 30:13
  You have to say, like this is not realistic to go out.
• 30:16
  To think you're just going to go out with a camera and a microphone
• 30:20
  and just make content all day and somehow you're going to become rich.
• 30:24
  It's not how it works.
• 30:25
  And so his dad had to be in that sort of tough love, tough love mindset
• 30:30
  to give, to teach him a little bit about reality.
• 30:34
  Like this is not how it works.
• 30:36
  These guys have been doing this for a very long time.
• 30:39
  And they put so much money into it.
• 30:41
  It's not like they're just out of the camera making it.
• 30:44
  They sacrifice a lot of money to get it going, to stay with it.
• 30:48
  And just when things were getting bad, they had to keep pushing through.
• 30:52
  And not every young person has the resources to do that.
• 30:58
  Especially when they're draining it from the parents.
• 31:00
  Exactly.
• 31:01
  And I'll tell you one other layer on this.
• 31:03
  It's the exact same thing.
• 31:04
  But at another level is they make everything else seem simple.
• 31:07
  Like crypto.
• 31:08
  Make a ton of money or crypto.
• 31:09
  Trading.
• 31:10
  Make a ton of money or trading.
• 31:11
  Yeah.
• 31:12
  Open box.
• 31:13
  Make a ton of money.
• 31:14
  It's all a money grab because they're the ones getting the money.
• 31:17
  Right.
• 31:18
  For you watching the content and thinking that you're going to make money.
• 31:20
  It's like a pyramid scheme.
• 31:21
  Yeah.
• 31:22
  I agree with you in that there's a total lie around.
• 31:25
  Oh, it's easy.
• 31:26
  What did you say?
• 31:27
  She can't handle it.
• 31:28
  Not like to see here, folks.
• 31:31
  I'm like easing the tension because I'm in the middle between the parents.
• 31:35
  Like arguing and I like felt it on my shoulders.
• 31:37
  And I was like, all right, I'm getting my warm up.
• 31:40
  Oh, Dylan, I don't want you to think I'm mad.
• 31:42
  I'm passionate.
• 31:43
  Oh, trust me.
• 31:44
  I love it.
• 31:45
  I'm passionate.
• 31:46
  You're mad.
• 31:47
  You're not mad at us.
• 31:48
  I'm mad.
• 31:49
  I'm mad at us.
• 31:50
  He's like, you guys don't know.
• 31:52
  No, I just feel like I want to protect all the people out there
• 31:56
  that aren't making it because of this bullshit system we've created.
• 32:00
  Not we've created.
• 32:01
  They've created.
• 32:02
  Yeah.
• 32:03
  You guys can't handle that.
• 32:05
  There you go.
• 32:06
  I feel like I take it off of here and take it up there.
• 32:09
  I agree.
• 32:10
  I'm gonna throw my chip.
• 32:11
  Yeah.
• 32:12
  Yeah.
• 32:13
  I mean, she's dark.
• 32:14
  But I used to.
• 32:15
  I used to.
• 32:16
  That was a YouTube video from my growing up days.
• 32:18
  I think you're right that it is in no way as easy as they make it out to be.
• 32:21
  In the way, hear me out.
• 32:23
  In the way that like painting is not as easy as we make it out to be.
• 32:27
  Anybody can like throw some paint up on a canvas.
• 32:29
  But like there's taking.
• 32:31
  It's like imagine when digital art became a thing.
• 32:35
  People probably looked at that and they were like, that's not art.
• 32:37
  But today it definitely is art.
• 32:39
  So I'm saying this by the same logic that you were like, oh, these parents had to talk
• 32:44
  their kids out and doing content creation.
• 32:46
  I think they do need to have a reality check that like there's two ways to make content.
• 32:49
  There's a million ways to make content.
• 32:51
  But one way is I'm trying to get famous off this content and let the content be my job.
• 32:55
  And the other way that you're talking about has to happen as a bare minimum is this content is my resume.
• 33:01
  And we've had to make a resume in a portfolio the whole time.
• 33:05
  Yeah, it's a new.
• 33:07
  It's a new.
• 33:08
  It's a new.
• 33:09
  Involved.
• 33:10
  Living.
• 33:11
  Resume.
• 33:12
  You have to keep recreating on a daily basis.
• 33:13
  Whatever is on site.
• 33:14
  And this is why you got to let kids touch an iPad.
• 33:15
  Are they going to.
• 33:16
  No.
• 33:17
  Oh shit.
• 33:18
  That is such a false way to look at it.
• 33:20
  And painters.
• 33:21
  There was never anyone in the old days that said painting is easy.
• 33:23
  Try painting.
• 33:24
  So funny.
• 33:25
  They did it.
• 33:26
  They printists.
• 33:27
  They never.
• 33:28
  They are printists under master painters.
• 33:29
  They didn't say.
• 33:30
  You can be a painter too and make millions of them.
• 33:32
  They weren't even rich.
• 33:33
  They never saw those.
• 33:34
  That was like a thing.
• 33:35
  I'm just saying they weren't even rich.
• 33:37
  They set up as a town square and they were like, I'm a painter.
• 33:40
  See how easy it is.
• 33:41
  You can do this.
• 33:42
  We don't know if that was a early phase of life.
• 33:44
  When you go and watch, you go look at the Sistine Chapel and you go through their museum and their galleries.
• 33:50
  You see how Raphael and Michelangelo, they all had a troop of apprentices.
• 33:56
  And they stood on the shoulders of tons of painters who had come before them.
• 34:00
  But there aren't that many vloggers who have come before us because it's such a new medium.
• 34:05
  So we don't know.
• 34:06
  That's what I'm saying.
• 34:07
  But what I'm saying is to say it's easy is a lie.
• 34:11
  Correct.
• 34:12
  And to require everyone to do it to succeed is bullshit.
• 34:15
  I think that's the same about like ask out.
• 34:18
  You know, there was a time when asking people to read and write was like, well, okay, witty, toyty.
• 34:24
  You had to be able to type to get certain jobs.
• 34:26
  Well, all right.
• 34:27
  I'm like, it's job specialization and it's a skill.
• 34:31
  It is job specific.
• 34:32
  The use over every career.
• 34:35
  If you want to succeed, I'm saying succeed.
• 34:37
  You don't have to have a vlog to go work at McDonald's.
• 34:40
  Right.
• 34:41
  But who wants to work at McDonald's?
• 34:42
  That's not a place you want to end up.
• 34:44
  That's a great question.
• 34:45
  Six seed.
• 34:46
  Okay.
• 34:47
  So let's agree.
• 34:48
  You're using McDonald's.
• 34:49
  I can see.
• 34:50
  I can see that that is your definition of not being successful because you're saying you can do this little level job and not have to make a vlog.
• 34:57
  Well, where's the line?
• 34:58
  If you want to do anything else in this world, I've tried.
• 35:01
  I was like, what can I do that doesn't involve being on your computer all the time and having to make content.
• 35:07
  And where do you end up?
• 35:08
  And every career is marketing adjacent.
• 35:11
  I think you have a point.
• 35:14
  I think there's a huge portion of the job market that we're leaving out and frankly a lot of people don't like to think about.
• 35:21
  And maybe those are the jobs that AI is going to come for and everything's going to be robotics.
• 35:25
  But I still think that there's a huge portion of the population who doesn't have to make content to get a job.
• 35:30
  But those jobs are changing rapidly.
• 35:33
  And we do tend to see them as like second class kind of jobs.
• 35:38
  But to your point, I agree with you that most of the jobs that people aspire to.
• 35:43
  Creative jobs.
• 35:44
  Imagine like the creative sector.
• 35:45
  And I think that's part of when I hear you talk.
• 35:48
  I'm like, okay, let's be careful because there are like a million things out there that we don't care about at all.
• 35:53
  But that somebody else does.
• 35:55
  To be a creative, I do think you got to be visible and you got to put it out there some way.
• 35:59
  But I do think there's a way to do it that's like, I need this to be my job.
• 36:02
  There's a way to do this that's like, I just...
• 36:06
  You're not trying to make money off the content.
• 36:08
  You're trying to help use the content to get seen to make money doing something else.
• 36:12
  That's what we're doing right now.
• 36:13
  And then there's another way of doing it that is like, there's something interesting to me about this medium.
• 36:19
  Like, I'm a director.
• 36:21
  I told the topic of blogs.
• 36:23
  In 2024, I was in the middle of this huge vlog project.
• 36:26
  When Helene hit and my family lost their homes and we just lost a baby in the family.
• 36:32
  And so like, there's some really crazy footage of me talking to a camera just like trying to process.
• 36:38
  And that wasn't made with the intention of making money.
• 36:44
  That wasn't made with the intention of making money.
• 36:46
  That was just like an expression of something.
• 36:49
  And I think that's good.
• 36:51
  That's a video.
• 36:52
  And that's something that's in your hands.
• 36:53
  Not the same as a vlog.
• 36:54
  Well, I'm just saying, you're not hosting it trying to spread word about this.
• 36:58
  But we all make home videos where we can remember things or remember a smile and a voice.
• 37:03
  I'm not talking about that.
• 37:04
  I'm talking about gestures.
• 37:05
  I'm talking about it together as a piece and put it out there.
• 37:08
  Like, who's to say?
• 37:09
  But I think that there are people doing it in that way who happened to end up in this content makes me money.
• 37:16
  In the way that people might love painting.
• 37:19
  And they just do it for the joy of painting because their parents told them they could never make any money at it.
• 37:23
  And you're one and a million.
• 37:24
  This is not going to support you.
• 37:26
  So find something else to do.
• 37:27
  But they love doing it.
• 37:29
  And then somehow.
• 37:30
  Doing this now.
• 37:31
  I think the monologue you do.
• 37:33
  I'm doing that.
• 37:34
  Because I have to.
• 37:35
  No.
• 37:36
  Well, maybe.
• 37:37
  I have.
• 37:38
  You know, in years I've not done this.
• 37:39
  This is the same as you making band posters, but hating to make band posters.
• 37:42
  Yeah.
• 37:43
  I think it's some of.
• 37:44
  Here's the other thing too.
• 37:46
  I think ultimately there are there is a whole generation of people.
• 37:50
  Or not generation, just a population of people that are making videos pretty much for themselves.
• 37:57
  It's like, this is something I'm excited about.
• 37:59
  I'm just going to record myself baking a cake or doing the thing.
• 38:03
  Yeah.
• 38:04
  And they don't think I'm going to be famous.
• 38:06
  They do it because it's something they're passionate about.
• 38:08
  And they just kind of want to share it with two or three people.
• 38:12
  And then eventually.
• 38:13
  And those same two or three people keep liking their posts.
• 38:15
  Yeah.
• 38:16
  But then eventually it may happen that that person who's now got a catalog of like 400 videos gets.
• 38:24
  Somebody stumbles upon one and goes, my God, this is fucking.
• 38:27
  You're building a body of work.
• 38:29
  Yeah.
• 38:30
  But that's you just literally spelled out the narrative.
• 38:32
  That is the narrative.
• 38:33
  Yeah.
• 38:34
  It's fun.
• 38:35
  Are you mad at the cake?
• 38:36
  Yeah.
• 38:37
  But no.
• 38:38
  No, no, not at all.
• 38:39
  I mean, it's the story you've been told.
• 38:41
  But I'm saying you see it.
• 38:42
  You love what she does.
• 38:43
  She's posting it she wants to.
• 38:44
  Yeah.
• 38:45
  And it's true.
• 38:46
  It does happen.
• 38:47
  People write things just like we made home videos.
• 38:48
  We made them.
• 38:49
  And then maybe someone will see it.
• 38:51
  I went through this with being in a band and a record label.
• 38:54
  Maybe someone will see your band.
• 38:55
  Just keep making music.
• 38:56
  But here's the point.
• 38:57
  The point is that she, this person in my hypothetical story just happened to have gotten stumbled upon.
• 39:05
  But think of all the people that do it and keep doing it.
• 39:08
  And they're still their motivation.
• 39:10
  Their objective is not to be famous and not to make money.
• 39:13
  They're just sharing content.
• 39:15
  So if you look at it that way, there is no harm.
• 39:17
  No foul.
• 39:18
  They haven't lost anything.
• 39:19
  And their dreams aren't crushed.
• 39:20
  Because at no point, they're like, gosh, I really hope I get millions of followers.
• 39:24
  They're just like, man, I love doing this.
• 39:26
  This has become part of my.
• 39:27
  My mom catches up with me on social media.
• 39:30
  Yeah.
• 39:31
  I share these with my relatives.
• 39:32
  And they love following and watching.
• 39:34
  We're talking about different things.
• 39:35
  I'm not talking about home videos to share with your family.
• 39:37
  That is not what I'm talking about.
• 39:38
  If anyone else that thinks I'm talking about that.
• 39:41
  If you want about your family and to your family and with your family.
• 39:43
  No, not just kids.
• 39:44
  I'm saying it's bullshit naivety to think that someone is just going to be,
• 39:48
  I just love this so much.
• 39:50
  And I'm just going to make this cake for these people.
• 39:53
  And why are they doing all their makeup and making themselves all jacked up with facework?
• 39:57
  Because people want to be seen.
• 39:59
  And you do these videos to be seen.
• 40:01
  You're not just doing them to disappear.
• 40:03
  You're not doing them to just do your love on the side.
• 40:05
  You're doing them to show people.
• 40:07
  You want people to see you if you're showing people.
• 40:09
  So when people aren't watching, it doesn't feel good.
• 40:12
  No one's out there saying, I love doing this.
• 40:14
  I hope no one sees this.
• 40:15
  Is that what they're saying?
• 40:17
  Is that the narrative?
• 40:18
  What about the millions of baking cakes?
• 40:20
  What are the millions of cake makers who are like,
• 40:22
  I just love making videos and showing them to no one.
• 40:26
  Is that the narrative?
• 40:28
  No.
• 40:29
  Why?
• 40:30
  Why?
• 40:31
  Why do they not show you the true narrative?
• 40:34
  I'm saying that the audience that we're the audience we're talking to,
• 40:38
  the ones who watch this, have the pressure on them,
• 40:41
  daily, a real pressure.
• 40:43
  We know all the creatives in our space, in our city,
• 40:46
  who have not made videos, are not succeeding.
• 40:49
  The ones who are making content.
• 40:51
  Thank you very much.
• 40:53
  We do have fun.
• 40:54
  I mean, think about where we are.
• 40:55
  We are not succeeding at the level of the people like,
• 40:58
  John Wooer, what's his name?
• 41:01
  No.
• 41:02
  What's the guy that teaches creative stuff?
• 41:04
  Oh, you're thinking about that.
• 41:07
  He's also more important.
• 41:09
  No, he is really huge.
• 41:10
  I don't know why John Woo.
• 41:11
  I think he directed Mission Impossible.
• 41:13
  Chris do.
• 41:14
  Chris Doe.
• 41:15
  Chris Doe.
• 41:16
  Chris Doe.
• 41:17
  Alright, so here's what I'm saying.
• 41:19
  He's going to love watching this one.
• 41:21
  I'm trying to spell the narrative
• 41:25
  that everyone tries to say about social media,
• 41:29
  because it is not democratized anymore.
• 41:32
  It is heavily saturated and heavily controlled.
• 41:36
  Well, it's been, we didn't realize the measures
• 41:39
  by which we were being controlled,
• 41:41
  but we got into it and thinking it was all fun and games
• 41:44
  and then like, now you're trapped.
• 41:46
  It's Westworld.
• 41:47
  Now we control you.
• 41:48
  Yeah.
• 41:49
  I agree with a lot of what you're saying.
• 41:51
  I do think.
• 41:52
  I'm just not afraid to see the negative side of it.
• 41:54
  There's a lot of different kinds of people in the world
• 41:57
  who engage with social media in different kinds of ways.
• 42:00
  And I think maybe part of what makes this so confusing
• 42:03
  or frustrating is that it's all blurry.
• 42:05
  It's like all gray.
• 42:07
  There are so many people who are posting
• 42:09
  who maybe don't know which camp they sit in.
• 42:11
  And so that's, I think if I were talking to that kid
• 42:15
  of this friend of ours,
• 42:17
  saying that he wants to go into content creation.
• 42:19
  Right.
• 42:21
  He wants to hang his hat on that.
• 42:23
  Yeah.
• 42:24
  That is a very challenging life path.
• 42:27
  And there are no guarantees to success.
• 42:29
  Right.
• 42:30
  And where are you going to get that money?
• 42:31
  Right.
• 42:32
  No qualms against someone wanting to do this.
• 42:33
  I have no issue with someone wanting to make content.
• 42:35
  Like, I want people that want to make content to make content.
• 42:38
  Yeah.
• 42:39
  I'm saying the requirement for everyone to have to make content.
• 42:42
  Not everyone's good on camera.
• 42:44
  Not everyone can look at it and do the performance.
• 42:46
  And so then they just get segmented out.
• 42:49
  Like, you're no good.
• 42:50
  You don't have any attention to get hired in agencies.
• 42:53
  You have to have an audience.
• 42:54
  So are you as lit up about this as you are about
• 42:58
  tell me the difference between that and the resume or that
• 43:01
  and the portfolio?
• 43:02
  Because not everybody looks great on paper.
• 43:06
  Like, I'm a people skills person.
• 43:07
  It's really hard to talk about the soft skills that I bring.
• 43:12
  And I've always felt like a resume was really difficult.
• 43:15
  Thank you.
• 43:16
  That's why everybody was excellent.
• 43:17
  That was amazing.
• 43:18
  Thanks, Claude.
• 43:19
  But, you know what I mean?
• 43:20
  And that's another thing.
• 43:21
  We're not even talking about how AI is influencing this.
• 43:23
  Yeah, never mind about all that.
• 43:24
  Absolutely.
• 43:25
  But I think there has always been these bullshit rules.
• 43:28
  And this is just same shit different day.
• 43:30
  We've got better technology.
• 43:31
  It's more accessible to people at a lower price point.
• 43:33
  It is still a thing that you have to invest in equipment
• 43:36
  to be able to get done.
• 43:37
  So there is still this class difference.
• 43:40
  The time is a commodity that a lot of people don't think about.
• 43:43
  Like, you have to, these things take time to develop.
• 43:46
  Yeah.
• 43:47
  So, but in some ways, I feel like I'm getting a leg up.
• 43:50
  If I'm willing to, and I'm not yet, but Tim's gonna teach me the ways.
• 43:54
  If I'm willing to put the energy in,
• 43:56
  I definitely feel like what I bring to my work is more easily shown
• 44:01
  in a video, like a perspective giving video,
• 44:04
  versus like my portfolio looks like charts and frameworks.
• 44:11
  And yes, there's pieces of creative work,
• 44:14
  but it was the result of a process that I'm trying to explain.
• 44:16
  I don't think any of me gets hired to portfolio, be honest.
• 44:19
  It's because someone is someone.
• 44:21
  And you got a special look.
• 44:23
  You got a special look.
• 44:24
  You got a special this.
• 44:26
  It literally is relationships and everything.
• 44:28
  I was trying to look in any way.
• 44:29
  And you're portfolioing me.
• 44:30
  Exactly.
• 44:31
  I would actually disagree.
• 44:32
  I would know.
• 44:33
  No way, dude, portfolio is hard to believe.
• 44:35
  No way.
• 44:36
  Everyone's got a good portfolio.
• 44:37
  I guarantee you.
• 44:38
  If you talk to any agency, or you talk to any company,
• 44:40
  and they're not just gonna flip through a bunch of portfolios,
• 44:42
  I'm like, this one looks really good.
• 44:44
  They do.
• 44:45
  They don't have time to look through all of them.
• 44:46
  They have people, groups of people that look through them
• 44:49
  and say, this one looks good.
• 44:50
  And then someone calls their friend and like,
• 44:52
  dude, my friend, the guy I was talking about,
• 44:54
  they got hired at East Fork.
• 44:55
  You know what he got hired?
• 44:56
  Oh.
• 44:57
  Because his friend knows the owner.
• 44:58
  Yeah.
• 44:59
  I know the owner, but I'm just saying that when you make a call
• 45:01
  and say, my friend's gonna be applying,
• 45:03
  that person's like, I love you, I trust you.
• 45:05
  I think you have something good to say about this person.
• 45:07
  They can't fuck it up on the, I mean, on the,
• 45:10
  they can't mess with the details on their portfolio.
• 45:13
  Right.
• 45:14
  It's easy to align a portfolio.
• 45:15
  Every person has been jaded by a portfolio that's not real.
• 45:18
  You get an agency portfolio and someone's like,
• 45:20
  I worked on a team that did a Google project.
• 45:22
  Who put Google in your portfolio?
• 45:23
  No.
• 45:24
  But they had no control over the project.
• 45:26
  I definitely know that.
• 45:27
  That's not art.
• 45:28
  But what I will say is that I do think the portfolio has more weight,
• 45:32
  I would say, even than a college degree.
• 45:35
  I don't know, as a college-educated person.
• 45:37
  I agree with connections and connections.
• 45:39
  Right.
• 45:40
  But he's thinking through also, like,
• 45:42
  and you do many things, but you're a photographer
• 45:45
  as one of the skills you bring.
• 45:46
  Oh, yeah.
• 45:47
  And I'm definitely looking at a photographer's output.
• 45:49
  Oh, 100%.
• 45:50
  You're gonna want to see what they can do.
• 45:52
  You're not just gonna hire a photographer.
• 45:53
  No, but my wife, you're not gonna do a wedding.
• 45:55
  You know why?
• 45:56
  Because her friend, those Megan, says,
• 45:58
  she takes really good photography.
• 45:59
  And Megan's like, do you want to see my work?
• 46:01
  She's like, no, my friend told me about you.
• 46:02
  But I could guarantee you that I'm not gonna...
• 46:04
  It's not the norm.
• 46:05
  I'm not gonna get a $5,000 day-rate project
• 46:08
  from someone who just happened to say,
• 46:11
  yeah, you should use Reggie.
• 46:12
  He's cool.
• 46:13
  They're gonna look at my portfolio.
• 46:15
  Everyone I hear that talks about you say
• 46:16
  that you're amazing to work with.
• 46:17
  But they also have seen my portfolio.
• 46:19
  They know you.
• 46:20
  Has anyone called you that has never met anyone you know
• 46:23
  and said, I want to hire you to do a $5,000 day-rate?
• 46:26
  No, it's definitely been people.
• 46:28
  No.
• 46:29
  Because it doesn't work.
• 46:30
  And now with AI.
• 46:31
  But everything you see is fake anyway.
• 46:33
  I'm not.
• 46:34
  So why don't I just create a photo of portfolio
• 46:37
  of AI-generated content and let all the nubes
• 46:39
  who can't recognize AI hire me?
• 46:41
  Yeah.
• 46:42
  That is a good point.
• 46:43
  It's a lot of portfolio.
• 46:44
  I think a lot of it is being the new portfolio.
• 46:47
  It's like, how do you perform in front of a camera?
• 46:50
  Yeah, because people are getting to see your character
• 46:52
  in different situations.
• 46:53
  But they're not.
• 46:54
  Have you ever seen someone you put in front of?
• 46:55
  It's not a performative.
• 46:56
  Absolutely.
• 46:57
  But you put a camera on someone instantly they go weird.
• 46:59
  You don't get their real person to your point.
• 47:02
  It's all performative.
• 47:03
  And we're all being duped by the performance.
• 47:06
  Exactly.
• 47:07
  So to that point, people that are looking at someone's vlog
• 47:09
  are being sold that this is who this person is.
• 47:12
  This is how they handle stressful situations.
• 47:14
  This is the person that's going to show up
• 47:16
  and do the work for me.
• 47:18
  But why did they have to be good actors and video
• 47:20
  to get that job?
• 47:22
  What if they have other skills that are not recording videos?
• 47:25
  I would be looking at their portfolio.
• 47:28
  But I'm just saying like where,
• 47:30
  but that it's no longer just a portfolio.
• 47:33
  I'm saying that we've added layers of metrics
• 47:36
  and requirements to success.
• 47:38
  Yeah, because our attention is so stretched thin
• 47:40
  that it's almost like,
• 47:41
  I don't want to have to schedule around your schedule
• 47:44
  to figure out whether you're good.
• 47:45
  I want you to have created a library of snippets
• 47:49
  that I can go peruse at my leisure
• 47:51
  and on topics that I can search and decide.
• 47:54
  And so it's like the library of Tim.
• 47:56
  So I'm going to go be able to search the library of Tim
• 47:58
  and decide how I feel about this guy
• 47:59
  without ever even having to shake your hand
• 48:01
  or invite you in for an interview or anything like that.
• 48:03
  So I can judge you from a distance.
• 48:05
  You know, I would say time invested.
• 48:08
  I would say portfolios actually matter more
• 48:11
  because they're someone who has judged
• 48:13
  nationally lots of competitions
• 48:15
  and being particularly drawn to student work,
• 48:18
  like high level student work.
• 48:20
  These aren't people that can just
• 48:23
  think having worked on a project for Google or whoever,
• 48:27
  like they don't have any career history.
• 48:30
  They literally just out of school.
• 48:32
  So what you're looking at is mostly student work
• 48:35
  and early professional work.
• 48:37
  And because of that,
• 48:38
  and you see promise there,
• 48:40
  it definitely means a lot more than a career professional
• 48:44
  who's got this portfolio.
• 48:45
  And you don't know what percentage of input he had
• 48:48
  on a particular campaign for Airbnb.
• 48:52
  I think there's more about an artistic
• 48:54
  I'll go and say point of view.
• 48:55
  You're seeing promise there,
• 48:56
  but I think you're the higher this person
• 48:58
  because that is some really impressive work.
• 49:00
  I think these are being conflated together.
• 49:01
  To do a portfolio of your work
• 49:03
  has a unique bringing together of what you've done.
• 49:06
  To do a video, a creative video
• 49:09
  that gets people interested,
• 49:10
  that shows who you are, your natural self,
• 49:12
  being true to your brand, saying the right things,
• 49:14
  getting people interested,
• 49:16
  all in one video, but not one video,
• 49:18
  daily videos.
• 49:20
  He's a whole different thing.
• 49:22
  We're not talking about someone getting on video
• 49:24
  and saying, this is my work I did.
• 49:26
  I'm a painter.
• 49:27
  This is my work I did.
• 49:28
  I'm not saying they don't.
• 49:30
  I'm just saying the log world,
• 49:33
  I like to hear taking this
• 49:35
  because you nodded at me.
• 49:37
  Oh yeah, Dylan's on this podcast too.
• 49:39
  You nodded on me when I said something about being forced to do it.
• 49:44
  And I grew up when we weren't being forced to make videos,
• 49:47
  pre videos.
• 49:48
  You just had to do really good work,
• 49:51
  get to know people that you worked with,
• 49:53
  and that's how you succeeded.
• 49:54
  But now, you have to make these adjacent videos
• 49:59
  to make people succeed.
• 50:00
  Or do you?
• 50:01
  I want your seat.
• 50:02
  See, that's why I feel so bad that you feel that way,
• 50:05
  because I don't feel that way.
• 50:06
  It's good.
• 50:07
  And then I feel like I'm consuming
• 50:09
  a lot more of the vlogs than you are.
• 50:11
  But what do you feel like your career trajectory is?
• 50:14
  What do you feel like you have to do to succeed?
• 50:17
  You are going...
• 50:18
  Well, if she knew that, she'd be doing it too.
• 50:21
  Um, I'm like...
• 50:26
  Do you feel any pressure to make a vlog?
• 50:29
  No, not.
• 50:30
  I am pretty on the spot.
• 50:32
  But I was just saying,
• 50:33
  do you feel any pressure to make videos?
• 50:35
  No.
• 50:36
  Do you...
• 50:37
  It's not a part of any of your...
• 50:39
  I mean, no.
• 50:40
  Like, I don't feel this way of...
• 50:43
  Why did you have to go, Pro?
• 50:45
  Because it was cool.
• 50:46
  And I was...
• 50:47
  Because she was surfing.
• 50:48
  I was surfing.
• 50:49
  And she was like...
• 50:50
  I might shred some NAR,
• 50:51
  and want to share it with someone.
• 50:53
  I would say this, though.
• 50:54
  You may not be propelled to make a vlog,
• 50:58
  but you do your photo dump,
• 51:01
  which I think is kind of like that,
• 51:04
  because you're sharing part of your life's experience
• 51:07
  with an audience.
• 51:08
  Yeah.
• 51:09
  You're just not talking over it.
• 51:10
  Maybe I just don't feel the pressure to do it,
• 51:12
  like vlogging-wise.
• 51:13
  A lot of my friends are telling me to post TikToks,
• 51:15
  and I'm not really into it right now.
• 51:17
  Oh, that should totally post.
• 51:19
  I could see you.
• 51:20
  Maybe that's for you.
• 51:21
  But that's what people say.
• 51:22
  I can see you posting it like,
• 51:23
  why do we have to do all this?
• 51:25
  Can I tell you something, though?
• 51:27
  You and I both,
• 51:28
  and you might have feelings about this,
• 51:30
  but you and I both come from a performance background.
• 51:33
  We are comfortable on a stage.
• 51:35
  So I feel like video makes more sense
• 51:38
  for the two of us as a medium,
• 51:40
  versus something like what Dylan tends to do on social,
• 51:44
  is more of like, here I've curated,
• 51:46
  or here I'm giving my perspective
• 51:48
  in a series of stills.
• 51:50
  Like, I don't know,
• 51:52
  and some people are more verbal.
• 51:53
  Some people like to, like,
• 51:54
  are friend John Jones,
• 51:55
  like, to write his ideas out in a blog style,
• 51:58
  like an essay style.
• 51:59
  The original B-log.
• 52:00
  Yeah, the B-log.
• 52:02
  So, like, I don't know.
• 52:03
  I agree with you that there are a ton of issues.
• 52:06
  There's so many things
• 52:07
  that are unintended byproducts,
• 52:10
  or like ways that were asking people to twist
• 52:12
  into a pretzel,
• 52:13
  and make themselves into something
• 52:14
  that they're not to get ahead.
• 52:16
  But I also feel like there's still a beautiful,
• 52:19
  like, your social media is your new portfolio,
• 52:23
  whether you like it that way or not.
• 52:25
  It's also maybe potential your interview,
• 52:27
  whether you like it that way or not.
• 52:29
  And there's multiple ways to get that information across,
• 52:32
  but it's not over there.
• 52:34
  But thanks for being here.
• 52:36
  I think that, you know,
• 52:39
  coming to terms with that fact
• 52:41
  and going into things like social media with purpose
• 52:44
  solves a lot of the trepidation
• 52:47
  and the, like, anxiety and the overthinking
• 52:49
  that I think we can get into
• 52:51
  when we're making content.
• 52:52
  That's not a guarantee of success by your metric.
• 52:55
  But, like, I still think it sucks,
• 52:58
  but, like, it can kind of be fun while it's sucking,
• 53:01
  I guess.
• 53:02
  That's where I'm at.
• 53:03
  Yeah, thank you.
• 53:04
  Get that trip off my knee.
• 53:05
  I didn't say, I just had a thought.
• 53:08
  So V-log show there.
• 53:10
  It's downgrading.
• 53:11
  And downgrading my trip.
• 53:12
  V-log stands for video log.
• 53:15
  I actually have no idea.
• 53:17
  I have no idea what the B stands for in blog, Bidio.
• 53:21
  No, Bidio log.
• 53:24
  What?
• 53:25
  I'm not joking.
• 53:26
  What is the B stand for?
• 53:27
  Log is just log, right?
• 53:29
  The web blog, and it's the B-log.
• 53:32
  They took the W-E off and you get logged.
• 53:35
  See, now that's creative.
• 53:36
  Thanks, Will.
• 53:37
  You're so smart.
• 53:38
  Wow.
• 53:41
  Weblog.
• 53:42
  Okay.
• 53:43
  That makes sense.
• 53:44
  Maybe I'm just, maybe I'm just, like,
• 53:46
  Bidio log.
• 53:47
  Bidio log.
• 53:48
  Gated, like you said.
• 53:49
  And maybe I don't have any.
• 53:50
  Well, you're the person who's, like,
• 53:52
  the most bought in on social as a strategy,
• 53:55
  which I agree with, and, like,
• 53:57
  you're learning some hard tricks.
• 53:58
  You know why?
• 53:59
  I have benefit from it.
• 54:00
  Do you know why?
• 54:01
  Uh-oh, he'll tell us.
• 54:02
  You're telling us.
• 54:03
  The line.
• 54:04
  Let it out too.
• 54:05
  For COVID, I had a very successful agency.
• 54:08
  Yeah.
• 54:09
  It's true.
• 54:10
  That grew seven years, 30% per year.
• 54:12
  I got a space right before COVID.
• 54:15
  A big space to start a collaborative workspace.
• 54:17
  Oh, yeah.
• 54:18
  It was a sweet space.
• 54:19
  And during COVID, everyone was forced online.
• 54:22
  Yeah.
• 54:23
  Every, the, the powers that be,
• 54:25
  I'm not saying they caused COVID,
• 54:27
  but they took advantage of the moment
• 54:28
  to redirect everyone's attention online
• 54:31
  and guess what happened to my business?
• 54:33
  Because you weren't online business, right?
• 54:35
  Because my word of my business was spread and word of mouth.
• 54:38
  I had relationships.
• 54:39
  All of a sudden, I'm not seeing the people I normally see.
• 54:42
  Right.
• 54:43
  And so, and I wasn't on the, I wasn't on,
• 54:45
  I have a family.
• 54:46
  I have three kids.
• 54:47
  I don't have time to post and brag about everything
• 54:50
  doing all the time.
• 54:51
  People knew I did good work.
• 54:53
  I did work for them.
• 54:54
  And it worked.
• 54:55
  And then all of a sudden, they're like,
• 54:57
  everyone, you must be online.
• 54:59
  All of a sudden, you just have streams.
• 55:00
  Now, your whole experience is just this.
• 55:02
  Thanks.
• 55:03
  Let's go and pass your face.
• 55:04
  It's overwhelming.
• 55:05
  Vlogs.
• 55:06
  No one can be outside.
• 55:07
  Now we're making videos.
• 55:08
  We all were just drenched in it.
• 55:10
  Yeah.
• 55:11
  And so, when I came out of that,
• 55:12
  I had a failed business.
• 55:13
  And guess what I have to do now?
• 55:15
  I have to make fucking content.
• 55:18
  Well, because that is what I'm required to do.
• 55:20
  And I'm finally just giving into it.
• 55:23
  Yeah.
• 55:24
  You're like, you know what?
• 55:25
  I don't know what else to do.
• 55:26
  But you want me to have a successful agency,
• 55:27
  so we can all work.
• 55:28
  It's the only way to do it.
• 55:29
  Yeah.
• 55:30
  If this is the way, this is the way I have to go.
• 55:32
  Yeah.
• 55:33
  I am yielding.
• 55:34
  I'm crumbling.
• 55:35
  I would not do this if I didn't have to.
• 55:37
  Well, be prepared.
• 55:38
  There's another pandemic on the rise.
• 55:40
  Yeah.
• 55:41
  What?
• 55:42
  No.
• 55:43
  What is it?
• 55:44
  Antivirus.
• 55:45
  Seriously?
• 55:46
  I mean, it's just like a few people,
• 55:47
  but like 150 had it?
• 55:48
  One was in North Carolina resident.
• 55:49
  What?
• 55:50
  No way.
• 55:51
  But they were away.
• 55:52
  They weren't here.
• 55:53
  No, they weren't here.
• 55:54
  They weren't in cruise.
• 55:55
  Not to spark any rumors.
• 55:56
  I'm just saying, use all that that you learned
• 55:57
  because we may be under it again.
• 55:59
  Oh, man.
• 56:00
  Last thing for me.
• 56:01
  Yes.
• 56:02
  Last thing for me.
• 56:03
  Oh my god.
• 56:04
  I would take advice though.
• 56:06
  Yeah.
• 56:07
  Like you predicted something.
• 56:10
  And then, we all come back to it.
• 56:11
  Oh, oh my gosh.
• 56:12
  Don't, not to be proud of.
• 56:13
  We don't need another pandemic.
• 56:15
  I love, I'm seeing it clearly now.
• 56:19
  Tim as the anti-blogger, yeah, anti-blogger.
• 56:23
  He stands against, but it stands for,
• 56:27
  but he's like within the system.
• 56:29
  Like, how do I break the system?
• 56:30
  And you see my vlog, I guess I'm all broken.
• 56:32
  It's not good.
• 56:33
  No one watches it.
• 56:34
  Tell him what it is.
• 56:35
  I don't watch it.
• 56:36
  I watch it.
• 56:37
  Tell him what it is.
• 56:38
  I do watch it.
• 56:39
  I do watch it.
• 56:40
  So that means enough.
• 56:41
  I don't.
• 56:42
  It's long, it's like 10 to 15 minutes.
• 56:43
  I love how the LinkedIn,
• 56:44
  and I'll tell you what,
• 56:45
  they got little games that you can play every day.
• 56:48
  I play my four or five little games.
• 56:50
  I get it and I get out.
• 56:52
  You know, I think that because we become so forced
• 57:00
  into the online and on screens world
• 57:04
  that the new commodity is,
• 57:06
  and we've talked about this on other shows,
• 57:08
  it's human connection.
• 57:09
  It's like being in human connection.
• 57:13
  And I think, and in physical spaces,
• 57:15
  I think it's going to seriously be in physical spaces.
• 57:17
  Being in spaces where we are actually
• 57:20
  seeing each other face to face,
• 57:21
  I think is very important to our mental health.
• 57:27
  I think it's not healthy for people to go for so long
• 57:31
  without connection to other people.
• 57:33
  Like, I remember, I mean, there are times years ago
• 57:38
  where we were all just sort of on social media
• 57:42
  and it's when social media was really started to like rise up.
• 57:45
  Like a Tumblr filter.
• 57:46
  Yeah, Tumblr, all that.
• 57:49
  I would actually go to the grocery store.
• 57:52
  We used to have this where Whole Foods is now
• 57:54
  on Miami called Green Life is low.
• 57:56
  I would go there just to,
• 57:58
  cause I knew everybody in town,
• 58:00
  so I knew I would go there and see at least three
• 58:02
  or four people that I could connect with.
• 58:04
  I would, and because I worked from home by myself,
• 58:07
  like I've been a solo per newer for 25 years.
• 58:09
  So I was always in my office by myself all the time
• 58:12
  and I would get this urge to like,
• 58:15
  I could just go to the refrigerator and get what I need it.
• 58:20
  But I'm like, I'm gonna go to the store
• 58:22
  because I feel a need for community,
• 58:25
  for connection, for real conversations in person.
• 58:28
  And I would literally go to the store and stay there
• 58:31
  for like two or three hours
• 58:32
  cause I would run into so many people.
• 58:34
  And it'd be one conversation after, who does that?
• 58:38
  I think it's because I desperately need it
• 58:41
  to see people in person.
• 58:44
  I don't do well with just getting tucked away in an office
• 58:47
  and viewing the world through a little seven inch screen.
• 58:51
  I think it limits your sense of possibility too.
• 58:53
  There's something about like when you're together
• 58:55
  with people, the real stuff gets really real
• 58:58
  and you're like, oh, we could figure this out.
• 59:00
  Like between us, everything's fine.
• 59:02
  We'll make the rest okay, but when you're,
• 59:05
  I don't know, there's something about transacting
• 59:06
  with people in the little box all the time.
• 59:09
  And I sometimes, I've had friends
• 59:11
  that I really struggle to keep up with
• 59:12
  cause it's like the only way I can get to you
• 59:15
  is through the little work box
• 59:17
  that I have to spend all my time working on.
• 59:19
  So yeah, I think that in person is valuable.
• 59:22
  And where we get that, like as a culture,
• 59:25
  I think we get that.
• 59:25
  We're figuring out how to use digital versus in person.
• 59:30
  The box.
• 59:31
  Yeah.
• 59:31
  The box.
• 59:34
  Anybody want?
• 59:36
  Sometimes I just want to make a really niche
• 59:38
  weird reference and I'm like, nobody in this room
• 59:40
  is going to get it, but it's just made me think
• 59:42
  of what we do in the shadows.
• 59:44
  Peace.
• 59:45
  So the box.
• 59:46
  Anyway, go ahead.
• 59:47
  Which is fine.
• 59:49
  It's fine.
• 59:50
  It's nobody cares.
• 59:51
  It's below our age grade.
• 59:53
  Yeah.
• 59:54
  That was just for Jake.
• 59:55
  Let's see who's showing your age
• 59:57
  cause you're too old and you don't get the rest.
• 59:59
  Yeah.
• 59:59
  Yeah, I get us out of here too.
• 1:00:01
  I love a god.
• 1:00:02
  I think that it was, I think it's a conversation
• 1:00:07
  that is messy.
• 1:00:09
  And as far as it relates to business,
• 1:00:11
  there have always been ads and performances.
• 1:00:14
  And I'm totally okay with that.
• 1:00:16
  I feel like the place for the performance,
• 1:00:19
  like going to see a play watching the perform,
• 1:00:22
  I'm not going to gripe about someone performing.
• 1:00:24
  And there are people that do it for no money
• 1:00:26
  because it's exhilarating and it's an art form.
• 1:00:28
  And there are artists all over the place doing it
• 1:00:31
  for no money.
• 1:00:33
  So if from a business context in the work we do,
• 1:00:37
  making videos have no problem with that.
• 1:00:39
  And I don't want anyone to think
• 1:00:40
  that it's like I'm against content creation
• 1:00:43
  cause I'm definitely not at all.
• 1:00:46
  Because there is a realm of presentation
• 1:00:52
  and entertainment and there's all the things
• 1:00:55
  that I love.
• 1:00:56
  I grew up watching movies with my dad
• 1:00:57
  and I love watching movies and I love that medium.
• 1:01:03
  I guess what I want to be clear is that
• 1:01:07
  I feel the pressures that are currently on our culture
• 1:01:13
  and that are moving within the social framework,
• 1:01:17
  the social network, the fabric of our society.
• 1:01:21
  And I see the ones being pushed aside.
• 1:01:25
  And I myself feel like I've been pushed aside.
• 1:01:28
  And I don't feel like I deserve that
• 1:01:30
  just because there's a platform
• 1:01:32
  that some guy thought of that he thought was a good idea
• 1:01:35
  and then duped everyone into having to post on it all the time.
• 1:01:39
  And not only that, but then have to figure out the trickery
• 1:01:41
  of how they're going to change the algorithm every few days.
• 1:01:43
  Yeah, nice.
• 1:01:44
  So I don't like the game that is that manipulative thing.
• 1:01:50
  I like the game of business.
• 1:01:51
  I like the game of performance and art and creative.
• 1:01:54
  And it's not easy.
• 1:01:55
  And I wish someone, if someone tells a kid
• 1:01:57
  that wants to be a content creator, it's going to be hard.
• 1:02:00
  And he's like, yeah, I want to do some hard things.
• 1:02:01
  I'm like, do the thing, make the video.
• 1:02:04
  Do the hard thing that's if you want to do it, do it.
• 1:02:07
  But to say you have to make videos and they're easy
• 1:02:11
  and then duped them into a life of suffering
• 1:02:13
  and some even get some think they want to need it
• 1:02:19
  because that's what we're being told.
• 1:02:21
  And it's heavy for them.
• 1:02:22
  It destroys them.
• 1:02:24
  That level of fame and attention.
• 1:02:28
  What if there was a mode
• 1:02:32
  on all the social media platforms
• 1:02:35
  where you could actually turn off the algorithm?
• 1:02:37
  You could have the curated algorithm experience
• 1:02:41
  where it's feeding you the stuff that you want or you could say,
• 1:02:46
  you know what, surprise me, I don't want to be curated.
• 1:02:49
  I just want to turn off the algorithm
• 1:02:52
  and just go on there and find whatever the fuck I want to find.
• 1:02:56
  That would be awesome.
• 1:02:58
  I would be interested also about this is in the works
• 1:03:01
  in like a local mode.
• 1:03:02
  Or it's like, I just want to see what people
• 1:03:05
  within a 50 mile radius of me.
• 1:03:07
  Yeah, that would be great.
• 1:03:09
  What if there was a, yeah, so that would be a really good way
• 1:03:12
  for social media to like make social media more accessible
• 1:03:15
  because I do agree with you the people who are desperately trying
• 1:03:21
  to be seen and having a fight and shift with the algorithm
• 1:03:25
  all the time and I could see that driving some people insane.
• 1:03:29
  Like trying to like, oh my god, this was perfect.
• 1:03:32
  I did everything it said I should do
• 1:03:34
  and nobody's seeing it.
• 1:03:35
  Like that would be really soul crushing.
• 1:03:37
  There's no justice center.
• 1:03:38
  Yeah, but if you could just,
• 1:03:40
  if you could have a whole, I bet you a ton of people
• 1:03:43
  would turn off the algorithm because there's content
• 1:03:46
  they're not seeing because they're being force fed
• 1:03:49
  whatever you used to be able to see things from your friends.
• 1:03:52
  Yeah, right, very easy.
• 1:03:53
  I think if there's so many friends that I run into,
• 1:03:55
  I'm like, I forgot about this person
• 1:03:59
  because I no longer see them on social media
• 1:04:01
  because the algorithm was like,
• 1:04:03
  well, they're not posting this stuff you want to see.
• 1:04:04
  So now all of a sudden, they're not in my,
• 1:04:07
  the way that I actually kind of keep,
• 1:04:09
  or they don't post because it's not their medium.
• 1:04:12
  No, but the thing that is is like what he's saying is,
• 1:04:15
  in not posting, they disappear from the memory.
• 1:04:18
  They are posting, but that's the thing.
• 1:04:19
  Oh, you're not even seeing it.
• 1:04:20
  I'll run into someone and I'm like,
• 1:04:22
  shit, man, you're not posting on Facebook anymore.
• 1:04:25
  I haven't seen any of them.
• 1:04:26
  Oh, I post all the time.
• 1:04:27
  I'm like, that's weird.
• 1:04:28
  And I go and look at it.
• 1:04:29
  Wow, he's been posting.
• 1:04:30
  They just for whatever reason.
• 1:04:31
  I was like, these other people,
• 1:04:32
  we think you should be more connected with than that person.
• 1:04:36
  We've decided for you that this person
• 1:04:39
  isn't posting things that interest you
• 1:04:41
  or that you should be interested in.
• 1:04:42
  So we're not going to show them to you.
• 1:04:44
  I've had several friends just drop off my radar
• 1:04:47
  because I used to see them all the time
• 1:04:50
  and I used to engage with their posts.
• 1:04:51
  And then all of a sudden, they're just like gone.
• 1:04:55
  And that's the kind of stuff
• 1:04:56
  that that is the social media people playing guides.
• 1:04:59
  And I think that is where the line gets crossed.
• 1:05:03
  If you could go in and have an algorithmless experience,
• 1:05:07
  I think a lot of people might choose that path.
• 1:05:10
  I'm gonna say a lot of people may still prefer
• 1:05:12
  to just stay in their echo chamber
• 1:05:14
  and get what social media guides think they want.
• 1:05:19
  But I think a lot of people might choose
• 1:05:21
  to just be able to navigate the world
• 1:05:23
  like you do in real life.
• 1:05:24
  You walk out the street
• 1:05:26
  and you don't know where you're going.
• 1:05:28
  You're gonna stumble upon whatever you stumble upon.
• 1:05:32
  Nobody's putting shops in front of you.
• 1:05:34
  That's, I guess I was born in an era when you had a job.
• 1:05:39
  And that was your job.
• 1:05:40
  And you didn't have to do three other jobs
• 1:05:41
  to make that job work.
• 1:05:42
  Right.
• 1:05:43
  100%.
• 1:05:44
  You know, like Andy from Big C,
• 1:05:47
  I was seeing her videos in LinkedIn.
• 1:05:48
  She's like, yeah, I have to do those.
• 1:05:50
  Right.
• 1:05:51
  Because that's expected.
• 1:05:52
  It's required.
• 1:05:53
  Right.
• 1:05:54
  And I think that it's so fucking annoying to me
• 1:05:58
  that we can't have a job and then have a life.
• 1:06:00
  We have to have a job.
• 1:06:01
  And then we have to do this other job.
• 1:06:03
  Performing a job works.
• 1:06:04
  Just to make the job work.
• 1:06:06
  Yeah.
• 1:06:06
  Yeah.
• 1:06:07
  Especially in your creative industry, like you said.
• 1:06:09
  Right.
• 1:06:10
  It's a thing.
• 1:06:11
  Yeah.
• 1:06:12
  And so it got me all around that.
• 1:06:12
  I'm sorry if I was too passionate or it just came off.
• 1:06:16
  No, sorry.
• 1:06:17
  You got to let you when you get really heated.
• 1:06:19
  Because I enjoy it.
• 1:06:21
  It's a good time.
• 1:06:22
  I think that's hope.
• 1:06:23
  Yeah.
• 1:06:23
  I already know what my favorite part was anyway.
• 1:06:29
  Was yours the little vein in his forehead?
• 1:06:31
  It's probably a good lighting.
• 1:06:33
  That's gonna be mine.
• 1:06:34
  It's gonna be mine.
• 1:06:35
  It's gonna be mine.
• 1:06:37
  OK.
• 1:06:37
  I would not want you any other way too.
• 1:06:39
  Yeah.
• 1:06:40
  I want to come to a good place, though,
• 1:06:42
  with you guys in this.
• 1:06:43
  You're in a good place with us.
• 1:06:44
  You got to come to a good place with them.
• 1:06:46
  I'm fine.
• 1:06:46
  Yeah.
• 1:06:48
  I caused Dylan to walk off stage.
• 1:06:50
  Do you see how much older he's all thrilled now?
• 1:06:54
  This is how I'm like, you should be with me on the couch.
• 1:06:55
  Now I know she's powering over in the corner.
• 1:07:01
  That's hilarious.
• 1:07:03
  I can't wait to watch this to see her body language.
• 1:07:06
  We didn't get really into it.
• 1:07:07
  And we all got really at first.
• 1:07:10
  Y'all were like, I'm totally disconnected from this topic.
• 1:07:12
  I don't even care.
• 1:07:13
  I'm like, they would have really touched you.
• 1:07:16
  I feel like I'm the only one who actually watches these.
• 1:07:18
  And then we talked over her the whole episode.
• 1:07:21
  I thought it was funny.
• 1:07:22
  I was like, I'm a product of the vlog.
• 1:07:24
  And then Tim's like, yeah, the vlog's fucking stupid.
• 1:07:26
  That was like, the vlog.
• 1:07:28
  Not like a jam.
• 1:07:29
  Yeah, I was like, a vlog.
• 1:07:31
  Maybe I should reframe this.
• 1:07:32
  The vlog is stupid.
• 1:07:34
  The pressure to vlog to everyone is stupid.
• 1:07:36
  Sure.
• 1:07:37
  That's a really fair.
• 1:07:39
  We did put you in a pressure cooker.
• 1:07:42
  We're basically we're performing a vlog in some way.
• 1:07:45
  And this was in many ways.
• 1:07:48
  Like, we're excited to make it.
• 1:07:49
  We've made it into something that I think we're excited to do each week.
• 1:07:54
  But it was out of necessity.
• 1:07:56
  And like, there's probably a little bit of baggage in that.
• 1:07:59
  We put you inside the terrarium and said, you have to be inside this terrarium.
• 1:08:03
  The InstaPot.
• 1:08:04
  Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  Yeah, I mean, we had it after the hurricane.
• 1:08:10
  Our agency got some help to rebuild.
• 1:08:13
  And Reggie and I did a lot of research into how we could build back after the devastation
• 1:08:20
  and after meeting with many different growth specialists or marketing specialists or
• 1:08:27
  all these things.
• 1:08:28
  It was like, no, you have to make content.
• 1:08:31
  That's your choice.
• 1:08:32
  You either make content.
• 1:08:33
  Do well.
• 1:08:34
  Don't make content.
• 1:08:35
  And be forgotten.
• 1:08:36
  And there's a little way of making content and still nobody knowing anything about
• 1:08:41
  it.
• 1:08:42
  We're just kind of comfy in some way.
• 1:08:45
  And I would say anyone watching this video, but you're not making the right content, I
• 1:08:49
  agree with you.
• 1:08:50
  It isn't the right content, but I do feel in my gut.
• 1:08:52
  This is the kind of content that is scarce in the world.
• 1:08:56
  I think that right now we're having a very over edited AI generated influx of marketed,
• 1:09:06
  monetized content.
• 1:09:07
  And there's not a lot of time for someone to open up and be there weird plain selves or
• 1:09:13
  get heated or I just so in doing it the wrong way, we're following our instincts on what
• 1:09:21
  it is that makes this experience interesting and who out there connects to this experience.
• 1:09:26
  And I do that.
• 1:09:27
  I've said this many times, like we waffle between like, is it marketing or is this a product
• 1:09:32
  that we're making or is this art?
• 1:09:35
  We haven't really made up our mind yet.
• 1:09:37
  I think sometimes we do that absolutely backwards thing just because it feels like what
• 1:09:42
  needs to be expressed.
• 1:09:44
  I think the audience that we hopefully attract will make that decision for us.
• 1:09:50
  Yeah.
• 1:09:51
  Right.
• 1:09:52
  They say the audience, we don't get to choose the audience of this quality.
• 1:09:55
  Yeah.
• 1:09:56
  Based on what they're being fed by the algorithm.
• 1:09:58
  Let's not open it at Tim.
• 1:10:01
  You're going to put that last little little jab.
• 1:10:04
  Yeah.
• 1:10:05
  And in conclusion, fuck the man.
• 1:10:06
  Am I right?
• 1:10:07
  Yeah.
• 1:10:08
  I couldn't set it better myself.
• 1:10:10
  Yes.
• 1:10:11
  I don't want the man.
• 1:10:12
  Do you want anything you want to add to one?
• 1:10:14
  Do you want to get heated about me getting heated?
• 1:10:16
  I'm OK.
• 1:10:17
  I do not think you suck at all.
• 1:10:20
  I think you're one of the coolest.
• 1:10:21
  If anything, I wish.
• 1:10:22
  If you're feeling completely not, does not suck.
• 1:10:24
  No.
• 1:10:25
  And you would be very cool in a vlog, but I didn't, there's no pressure in the vlog.
• 1:10:30
  It's OK.
• 1:10:32
  Her inner office monologues, I think, are always compelling, and I would watch that.
• 1:10:40
  So my, what if, is what if I wasn't so offended by vlogs?
• 1:10:45
  No, the pressure to make a vlog.
• 1:10:46
  What if I just made them, like you said, for fun?
• 1:10:49
  That's what I thought you were doing, babe.
• 1:10:50
  Just try that on.
• 1:10:51
  Just enjoy the process.
• 1:10:55
  It's like he's being sculpted.
• 1:10:57
  But if I just enjoyed it, I feel like there's going to be like a ransom note held up.
• 1:11:02
  He's got the holding this side.
• 1:11:06
  No, I enjoyed this episode.
• 1:11:09
  I think that originally didn't sound interesting to me, as I said, but it is super interesting.
• 1:11:15
  And as I'm digging through the thoughts with some pushback from you guys, I do see it
• 1:11:20
  in a different way, and I appreciate that.
• 1:11:22
  I see myself in a different way.
• 1:11:25
  I think maybe it's the whole point of conversation.
• 1:11:27
  I'm so excited we made you host today, too.
• 1:11:31
  I am, too.
• 1:11:32
  I'm loving this.
• 1:11:33
  What is it, chances?
• 1:11:34
  I'm sure there'll be other topics we pull out where we initially have that, like,
• 1:11:38
  uninterested response, and then because of the nature of our conversations and our generational
• 1:11:45
  lenses that we'll get pulled into it.
• 1:11:47
  And we're like getting to know each other pretty well, so it's like, I actually think you
• 1:11:51
  do care of vlogs.
• 1:11:53
  You know what?
• 1:11:54
  Maybe it was a false front because my wife's always like, well, what if you get really,
• 1:12:00
  she calls snarky.
• 1:12:01
  She calls me snarky.
• 1:12:02
  I'm in a face.
• 1:12:03
  And she says you're being snarky.
• 1:12:04
  You can get snarky.
• 1:12:05
  And I love it.
• 1:12:06
  And she's like, but don't get snarky in a podcast, so I was like trying to hold my, I must
• 1:12:10
  have been subconsciously trying to hold myself back like, I'm not going to get snarky.
• 1:12:15
  Whatever.
• 1:12:16
  Tim, you can get snarky.
• 1:12:17
  I got snarky, and I'm okay with it.
• 1:12:21
  I feel like I worked my way through it.
• 1:12:23
  It was good for me.
• 1:12:24
  Was it good for you?
• 1:12:25
  It was good for you.
• 1:12:27
  You?
• 1:12:28
  Yeah.
• 1:12:29
  Yeah.
• 1:12:30
  No.
• 1:12:31
  I had a great time.
• 1:12:32
  Was it good for you, Will?
• 1:12:35
  Well, thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Age.
• 1:12:40
  Hope you enjoyed it, and I hope you have a great day.
• 1:12:43
  And we, see you next time.
• 1:12:45
  Bye.
• 1:12:46
  Bye.
• 1:12:47
  Bye.
• 1:12:48
  Yeah.
• 1:12:49
  I love that.
• 1:12:50
  How are you okay?
• 1:12:51
  Yeah.
• 1:12:52
  Thanks for listening.
• 1:12:56
  This podcast was created and developed by our hosts.
• 1:12:59
  Ready to dwell?
• 1:13:00
  Tim's Frogs, Mary Green, and Dylan Garcia, produced by me, Mary Green, live production
• 1:13:08
  and editing by Will Candy, graphic design by Dylan Garcia, and set design by Megan's
• 1:13:14
  Frogs.
• 1:13:15
  Today's episode is presented lovingly by 40 Hearts, creators of Enduring Value.