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Billy Zane Joins Therapy Thursday Part 1 · Therapy Thursday with Ellen K

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I love Cal and I would have chosen Cal as
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: a modern day woman because I just saw an Instagram
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: post and I laughed out loud because it's so true.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: It says, all men are going to be jerks. So
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: it's better to be with the jerk in the south
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: of France.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: I think I saw the same one. And I just
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: returned from the south of France.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Now, if I said that and flipped the gender narrative,
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: what would the response be?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: It would be, I mean.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: What would be the repercussion?
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Upheaval.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Upheaval. In the court of.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Public opinion, I would be tarred and feathered before.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I got to stamp my parking.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Ticket at the front desk. Why is that?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Billy Zane is here. Yay, Billy. Thank you for dropping
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: by the pod.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Thank you. With a good face for radio.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what Therapy Thursday is all about. We
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: usually like tackle problems. And Sarah is such a great
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: therapist that she always finds a way through any kind
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: of problem that comes across our desks. We've had so
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: many interesting things, financial cheating, real cheating. We've had sisters
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: who have turned on each other. Family matters. Why am
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I here?
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Have you ever.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Had anyone stabbed in the back?
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: We also talk about backstabbers.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: What am I doing here? Great intro.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Glad you're on the show, Bill. You fit right in.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: As you know, we have many problems that we address.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: How about some context, Sarah? Tell the good folks why
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: the hell I'm in this show.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Well, so do you ever, like, you know, come up
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: against challenges in your life where you feel like you
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: just need someone to talk to who has a truly
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: objective viewpoint?
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: No, I love to just bury it, bury it way
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: down deep.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Lie to myself first and then to others.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: I agree with that. It's very helpful.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: I think there was a time, you know, the great
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: generation was good at it, you know?
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: The silent generation?
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: They're just, you know, they called it. shell shock maybe,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: or just, you know, treated it with a whiskey.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: But now everybody's down to the.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Rec room, you know, now everyone just loves to talk
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: about their problems.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe sometimes too much. Do you feel like we're over sharing?
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: To, to name it is to live it as to
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: be it. Thoughts are things. And I think if we,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: I think there's, I'm curious about what you find in
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: research around the threshold of, of, of examination and self-examination.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: And then you have to look at the whole industries around, um, and,
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: let's say examination and analysis, that whether those intentions are
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: pure or not just business models, pardon my, went to
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: that water, gave me some indigestion. But I'm curious if,
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: is there something to be drawn from the Stoics?
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: Oh.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: You know. Yeah. Whereby you kind of get on with it. Yeah.
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: I think that there's a point where you have to
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: ask if retelling is, is actually helpful or is it re-traumatizing?
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: Are we actually re-traumatizing ourself by delving into.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Our most painful memories?
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: What have you found?
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I think it varies on the person.
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: I think it's important to be able to look at things,
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: but at some point you do want to let go.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: You want to be living in the now and looking
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: to the future.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: I agree. I think there's no one answer is the
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: is the takeaway, right? It falls in the realm of
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: personal medicine. So, you know, what works for you? It
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: would be interesting if there was a protocol that was
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: seemingly accurate yet agnostic that could determine whether that was
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: good for you. Like, is there a line of questions
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: that would first determine before you go down the rabbit
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: hole or someone's forced to kind of pick that scab
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: that might not be the best move for them?
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, right. I don't know if there's a test.
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: I think the only test is the human experience at
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: any given time. Is it my human experience that my
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: life is better by addressing this? Or like I said,
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: just looking to the future, realizing.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: That what happened happened.
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: It happened in certain ways because there was no other
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: option at the time. And then hopefully we take the
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: good from even very bad things and walk forward.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: But the culture of sharing, I mean, there was a
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: time when maybe Emily Post would have advised otherwise, but
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: you never really tell anyone your business and it's just
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: not done. And I think that was more than just etiquette.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: I think like all, you know, of grandma's remedies, there
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: was a basis to this. There was something that, you know.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: And do you feel that having a therapist, I mean,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: it is a private thing. It's just you and another person.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: You could still be stoic and keep your business to yourself,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: but then share with a professional.
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: And still get the help you may need.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. My first, you know, and pretty much only real
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: step into a form of therapy was a couples therapy.
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: Oh.
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  Speaker 3: You know, on the... precipice of a breakup some you
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: know many years ago but i i learned that you
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: know it's something you would do while it's good.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Right don't wait till it's bad oh i like that
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  Speaker 1: i thought.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: That was fascinating yeah i just i thought that was
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: really practical and and just affirming um modalities and and
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: and means of communication that were really conducive and really
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: understanding preferences okay.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Well then checking in for sarah If I'm in a
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: happy relationship, I'm a couple, the last thing I want
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: to do is go to therapy. Even though, you know,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: you say go when it's good, but do you ever
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: get couples like that, Sarah, who are there to celebrate
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: each other?
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I do get couples.
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: I get couples who want to maintain the joy and
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: the passion. And I agree that a lot of couples
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: come in when it's sadly too late. Or at least
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: one person already has one foot out the door when..
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: As a therapist, I can look back and say.
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: God, if you'd only come in three years ago, four
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: years ago, it would have been a way to process
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: some of the stuff that feels unprocessable now. And I
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: think to go into therapy when things are so great
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: and you want to know how to keep them great
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: is a wonderful concept.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: It is a wonderful concept. And how would you promote
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: that within the industry? Because it's just not considered, right?
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: So this will lead to our topic as far as
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: why we're here and narrative and storytelling and the power
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: of that. But this is a great example because my
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: knee-jerk response was, what a great idea. And the best
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: way to get that across is a piece of, is
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: like a series or a movie. Instead of something's got
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: to give, it's called why it's good or while it's good.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: And imagine being able to watch a couple who, by example...
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: are going into therapy when they're at their peak. I
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: like movies where everything goes right.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Me too.
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  Speaker 3: It differentiates, and we have this anticipation of trauma or conflict,
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: and you never have to deliver on it, which you
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: just show people making intelligent choices. But it doesn't rob
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: you of the fact that we anticipate and we're conditioned
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: to expect worst-case scenarios and lame behavior and small thinking.
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 3: And I love when characters surprise me with emotional intelligence
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: and intelligent choices.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I'm laughing because I'm watching a series right now.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: What are you watching?
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: On Netflix, Forbidden Woman.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: This is a telenovela-style thing. You guys, there are 62 episodes.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: So this is a long arc. You could binge for
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the rest of the year. But every character in there
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: makes a bad choice. And so... you saying i like
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: i like it when things go well too and.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: Right when you're like oh yeah she's gonna do it
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: she's gonna do the right thing they do the wrong
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: thing and so it's such it's just the opposite you
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: would not like the series it's just the opposite of
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: what you're saying i don't know why i'm addicted to
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  Speaker 4: it well.
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: I think they do yeah and there's probably.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: A lot of research about the cliffhanger and i i
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: just simply think that you can do a cliffhanger with with.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Um Fewer than 62 episodes.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: With positives, with an expansion rather than another further contraction.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: You know, we have enough of, oh no, you know,
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  Speaker 3: what's going to happen next?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I think there's, I don't know. I think we're suckers for, again, differentiation.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: If you give them, you know, I like steak and cake.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Steak and cake. Billy Zane. So yeah, Billy Zane. You
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: are here for a reason.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: Jump in kids. Water's great.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: Here we go.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: And it's a great reason. You know, you, um, as
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: an artist, see the positive impact of artistry on emotions
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  Speaker 1: and mental health. And like you were just saying, you
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: like to have, you know, projects, you like it when
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: it goes well. So do you find when you're choosing
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: work that you go for the positive?
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Um, I try. If not, I bring it in in
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: degrees of subtlety or sledgehammer obviousness. And it helps add
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: dimension to what might have just been written as entertaining
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: obstacle or foil for a protagonist's journey. As the antagonist,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: I like to go a little deeper and mine the
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: cycle of trauma, the recycling of trauma. Why is this
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: person this way?
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: So maybe there's cautionary tale in there. Not to derail
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: the entertainment factor in the narrative or enjoy when they
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: get their comeuppance, but simply to make you think a
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: bit about their journey or see a process happening there.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Whether they recover or learn in two and a half
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: hours or in real time for the story or not.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Do you find a richness in the ambiguity of a character?
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: Totally. There's wiggle room to ornament. And if you're remotely
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: intrepid or curious, it becomes satisfying to create. And in
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: my experience, seemingly more satisfying to watch as audiences have
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: responded to things in nuance or elements that I intentionally layered.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: like Easter eggs, you know, within, you know, they land.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: And that's always a really fun exchange with the public
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: when they go, I see what you did there, and
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I got that.
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: Do you think audiences have a greater tolerance for a
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: morally gray character than they did, say, 30 years ago
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: when you made Titanic?
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Because Cal was certainly a polarizing character.
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: But I think that people have revisited him and maybe
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: view him a little differently now.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Well, it's an interesting question, Sarah. You know, the film
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: certainly hasn't changed. Right. And society has, perhaps. And the
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: tools that drive opinion and share it. And people's personal timeline,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: their age, right? Remature. All those young girls who saw
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: that movie, you know. A hundred times in the theaters.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much, by the way. Who were all,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: you know, Team Jack. You know, get a little older
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: and their priorities change.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: And they start to view Cal, I think, in a
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: slightly different light.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Do you view Cal in a different light? No.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: He's the same way I always saw him.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Which was, you know, he was just a product of
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: his time. Which was not the best programming.
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: No.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: You have to take all the implications of the age
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: and the preparation and the access and the norms when
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: it was schooled. I think he loved her.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Do you think he knew her?
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: I don't think he thought to ask.
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Is that the way it was? Was that the norm?
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like that language didn't exist then, like to
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: really know me. It's like, oh, no.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: I'm playing my part. Are you playing yours?
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: You know, in terms of, I guess, romantic relations, it...
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: There were roles, you know, we played roles. And we
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: do today to some degree, but those roles blur and
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: the definitions of those blurs, you know.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what makes it interesting.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Huh?
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: I think that's what makes life interesting is that the
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: roles are less rigid. We have so much more flexibility
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: than at least is portrayed in a film or art
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: or a book from a long time ago.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: But do you feel flexibility is also, you know, let's
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: call it compass, right?
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Are we charting a course or are we just sidewinding
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: towards the falls?
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: It's a good question.
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: And it's a good question, I think, whether what is
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: actually preferential, because I think we do thrive with a
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: certain amount of structure, but we also need the freedom
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: to be expansive.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Is it a rationalization for lazy behavior?
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: That's a really good question. A lack of accountability.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Completely. But written off as like my modern freedoms and,
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: you know, this is good for me and us. I
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: don't know. I like a little structure.
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I love Cal and I would have chosen Cal as
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: a modern day woman because I just saw an Instagram
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: post and I laughed out loud because it's so true.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: It says all men are going to be jerks. So
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: it's better to be with a jerk in the south
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: of France.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: I think I saw the same one.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And I just returned from the south of France, so
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: it was a..
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Now, if I said that and flipped the gender narrative,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: what would the response be?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: It would be..
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: What would be the repercussion? Upheaval.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Upheaval. In the court of public.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Opinion, I would be... Tarred and feathered before I got
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: to stamp my parking ticket at the front desk. Why
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: is that? Under those conditions that we seem to accept,
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: to your point, are flexible and malleable now. Right. Why
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: is that okay?
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Sarah, you take this one.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: God.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Is it because men do act it out?
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: No, but why am I supposed to sit here and go, yeah...
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: men are jerks and agree with you. Oh, you, or
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: why am I supposed to not, you know, not that
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I would say the contrary, but I, I just find that,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: you know, these sweeping generalizations are, are, and the more
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: so the, the permissive and imbalanced space whereby we, we are,
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: you know, encouraged to, uh, promote them. Uh, it's, it,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: undermines i think the thesis of a of a kind
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: of unstructured anything goes because not anything goes it's complete
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: it's it's completely hypocritical right some things go.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah and some things should absolutely not go and well
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: that is true.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: So the the double standard is just i'm just curious
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: so Yeah, no. How you feel about it. Because you
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: dropped it without a thought.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I dropped it without a thought.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: And that is not, I'm just saying, that is a
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: complete reflection of our moment right now.
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: It is.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: Like, this is okay.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is okay. Just like being a woman working
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: in a man's world.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: And you like that quote.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: You know, men are going to be jerks.
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: Might as well be with a man. But I might
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: as well be in the south of France with a jerk.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Because it's funny.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, great. It is funny. But, you know.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, the question is, why is it funny versus offensive?
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Because it's, well. No, which I think is like.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: There's some truth to it.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: There is. I'm not, but I'm also like, I will
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: argue the first, I'm also completely, you know, sick of
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: being overprecious.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: But I would like, you know, it would be great
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: if I was able to like reflect the same way.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: I would, you know, double down, let's go.
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: Without recourse.
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: And that's unfortunately not the world we live in. It's
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: not that I take, I'm offended. I'm just like, hey,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: it's not, you know.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: You're pointing out a hypocrisy.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: I'm calling out the hypocrisy. It's like, come on.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: No, it's true.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Love all, insult all, I say.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Equality and the freedom to offend.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, I work in a man's world. There's mostly men.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: You look up and down the hall, I'm with men.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: There's men. I happen to be a female. And Sarah,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: maybe you see this in your industry as well. When
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: something good happens for me, there are certain executives who
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: are no longer here who would say, oh, great, now
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: you can go out and get a new outfit. You're
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: going to voice the Oscars. Like, that's what it's all about.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: In terms of your physicality?
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Is that what you feel like is being emphasized? That's
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: not what's important to me. What's important to me is
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: that I've just landed a big, voiceover gig. It's not about, oh,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I get to run out to the store and buy
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: a dress. There was a guy on the air years ago,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: he used to say, do you know why the freeways
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: are crowded? Because women are driving to the mall on
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: a Saturday morning. That's why there's Saturday morning traffic. And
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I always just.
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: Be like- So you see that as a statement about
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: a woman's priorities, what would be exciting to you?
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: And in many ways, by- Why don't you be the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: jerk in the south of France? It's the same kind
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: of fluidity that that's been going on for decades.
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: But it makes me laugh when it's when it's the
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: woman saying it.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: OK, I think I know why in certain respects this
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: might be true. Have you ever heard that it's not
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: funny to punch down? Things are humorous when we punch up.
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: I think that it's viewed that women making fun of
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: men is punching up.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: And that's why it doesn't hit the same... I'm not
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: saying that's true at all.
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: I see men as being tremendously vulnerable and particularly vulnerable
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: to women. But I think maybe that's the vibe behind
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: that or why there's maybe more freedom in that regard.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: Well, I would put this... Okay.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: How would you put that to me?
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry that you feel that that's a punch up.
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: And I'm more interested in about why. that's not just
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: a straight jab.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Because if we're equals, it should be.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I like the boxing terms.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: But you're putting yourself below your target.
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: And that's what needs to be examined.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: That is the source of the problem.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: I agree.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: I agree. Very insightful, Billy Zane. I'm impressed.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: I do what I can.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I'll be here.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Come on, let's jump into the fun stuff.
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: What do we got?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: What are we doing here? Let's go with the fun stuff.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Billy, I would love to talk about your art. Thank you.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I just recently found out that you're an artist. I've
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: looked at some of your work. It's beautiful, truly.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: I'm so grateful. It became... I found it, some of
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: my earlier, let me start a sentence and stick to it, okay?
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: When I first moved here, my early friends were painters
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: and actors, but I was in a community that had
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: a variety of artistic expression. It informed me as an actor.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: But I really warmed to the aesthetic and lifestyle and
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: romanticism of it. It was more the trappings than the expression.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: I always drew and, and did a little bit of painting,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: but as I learned the, um, again, the, the, the
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: aesthetic of friends, and then I would research some of
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: the masters and look at their lifestyle of, you know,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: back to the South of France. you know, waking up,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: having a swim, having some breakfast, do a little painting,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: have a little siesta, do a little more painting, make out,
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: go have some, you know, have some wine, go have,
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: it was like, you know, then you look at actors
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: who are like, it's okay, it's four in the morning,
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: you're in, you know, you're in Vancouver in the frozen
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: woods or whatever, you're in the cold, chilly nights and
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: you're up for 14 hours. It was like, the lifestyle
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: of a painter seemed a lot more fun than an actor. Um, No,
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: but I love the expression. And as I found myself
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: on those sets, the singular expression as a antidote to
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: art by committee became more and more necessary for me.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: I just found I had this surplus of creative energy
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: that was not finding outlet in my trailer or reading
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: a book or waiting for my turn to act that
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: I had to keep my, my, uh, it's a muscle.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: You have to exercise it. And I found it, the,
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: the improvisation, especially in abstraction, which I like abstract expressionism
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: seems to be my jam. I like figurative and I
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: play at it, but I, I like the improvisation of
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: abstract expressionism. Um, it's not conceptual for me. Um, fed
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: me as an actor, as a, as a director, as a,
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: as a creator, I guess, you tap this instinct, commitment
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: to task, confidence, and working through a seeming mistake where
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: there should be no mistakes, but your aesthetic eye will
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: definitely become critical, and you'll go, I wish that was,
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: and you'll just keep working and going for it. And
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: you blow through, but these are life skills I found
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: that applied elsewhere.
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: And it just, art became a, you know, under greater examination,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: I don't think it simply reflected humanity. It helped construct it,
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: you know, in me anyway. And maybe for others.
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: Do you think there are things that come out in
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: art that don't come out as easily in conversation?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: It's a safe place to express empathy and to even
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: rehearse it and encourage. I don't think it deflects, but
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: I think it taps as much as gives you a
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: little bit of air cover. It allows you to access
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: someplace but provides a space where you can explore things
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Almost in rehearsal.
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: A little bit like therapy.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, for sure. Definitely. I mean, art therapy, I guess,
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: has been around for quite a while.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: It has been.
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: And it is, I think, one of the things that
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: it's very useful at doing is processing things that we
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: may not even be aware of until we see what
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: we've created. And it's a beautiful thing about art. It's
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: a beautiful thing, I think, about all creative processes is
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: there's the process and then there's the result.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: And sometimes the result isn't what we were intending. And
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of beauty in that.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Do you paint?
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: No.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I don't have an artistic bone in my body. Imaginative,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: but not artistic.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Why do you resign yourself to say that? Why do
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: you accept?
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Because she hasn't gone to the art store to buy
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: the canvas to make the start. I feel like when
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: people say things like that, they haven't started. You know
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Sometimes I was a swimmer. The hardest
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: thing is getting in the water. So painter, where do
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I begin? Okay, let me just go get the canvas
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and the paints. And then if you just sit with it,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: you might find something in you, Sarah, that becomes this
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: beautiful expression on the canvas.
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Let me make it easier for you.
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: Don't go to an art store.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Because I can understand that threshold is like you start questioning,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: do people think I think I'm an artist? Yeah. Who
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: am I kidding? You know, the variety. It's also really expensive.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: They're way overpriced.
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: It is.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I went in for the whole.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: It's goofy. But you definitely feel like, you know, I
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: can understand why that's daunting.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Go to a hardware store. Oh.
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: Okay. Okay.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: You know, paint's cheaper, comes in bulk. And there's that
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: color wheel or chart that finds complementary hues and palette
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: for the kitchen, pantry, hallway. Those three colors that are complementary.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Pick three or four colors that are complementary. Neutrals, whatever,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: earth tones, or whatever turns you on. But let it
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: help you. Get samples. Get a cork. Pardon me. Get
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: drop cloths.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I like that sound.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Get plastic to put down, but then instead of getting canvas,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: get a canvas drop cloth, a big one.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: With the stitching on it. Get rollers. Get little brushes.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I love this.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: And go and find a spot on the lawn or
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: in the driveway, lay it out, and start playing. Because
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: not being able to render has stopped so many people
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: from tapping their creative expression. Oh, I couldn't possibly, I
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: draw like a child. Is it a tree? Is it
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: a giraffe? I don't know. Like, forget about rendering. Start
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: with abstraction. You put outfits together every morning, right? This belt,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: that blouse, those shoes, that bag. These are complementary colors,
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: two or three colors generally. You know, maybe an accent.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Everyone does it. What looks good to me? We practice
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: this discernment. daily. Take that. And what else do you do?
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: If you cook, you prepare food. Well, when you're serving food,
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: your plate's a canvas. Meat and three veg, right? What
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: do you put on your plate? You got your rice,
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: you got your potatoes, you got your steak, you got
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: your vegetables.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I put a sweet potato in there.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: And they look pretty good together. Where are you putting them?
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: How are you putting them? Do you put some, is
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: there salsa on your tuna? Whatever the hell. Mango salsa,
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: by the.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Not an animal but that is good and it wasn't
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: tuna it was like sea bass or salmon so come.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: On anyway um swordfish anyway.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: The um you uh yeah so everything can be a
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: canvas so everything is we have this artistic expression in
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: our life we wear it every day wear a canvas
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: we project and reflect we integrate color we use color
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: and color therapy I guess you want to call it
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: uh On a daily level, just apply it to an
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: external surface with the, now comes the fun part.
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: With the, you know, maybe uncharacteristic confidence of commitment. Okay.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: If you're dealing with two or three colors, include the
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: canvas as a color. You don't have to cover everything.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: And when you apply, instead of like rolling and covering
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: until something is covered or you, Play with the idea
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: of commitment with a single stroke and wait. Look at
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: the behavior of the paint. And get a roller, a brush,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: and if you're going to play with two or three colors,
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: get two or three instruments. A palette knife, a roller,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: a big roller, a small roller. And for each color,
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: somewhere on the canvas, pick one color and do, without thinking,
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: a few strokes of this color.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: So it's decisions and then commitment.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: Commitment, decisions, commitment, and then restraint.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I'd love that.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Do you teach a class that.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: You should do this? We'll get to that in a minute,
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: I guess. I've taught a lot of self-professed non-artists and
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: opened this up, and they've never gone back. And it's
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: really fun.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Sounds like an amazing experience.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: It is. It's just when you see folks who are like,
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: I don't do it, I don't have an artistic bone. Again,
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: what an unfortunate affirmation. I'm sorry. But it's true. And
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: if you can overcome that with play and the confidence
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: that comes from it, the sense of accomplishment without judgment,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: you're just outside your driveway and no one knows. And
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: we're in the back, you know, do it privately, do
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: it at night. I love middle of the night, you know,
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: I can't sleep, work. I'll just go out and, you know,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: it's quiet, put on music, crack a bottle of wine, whatever.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: It's kind of fun.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I like the cracking of the bottle of wine in
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: the middle of the night.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: I thought I'd bring it back.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: You've hooked me.
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: Now I was uncertain until I heard wine in the
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: middle of the night.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: There it is.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: That's the key to Sarah.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you play. Just don't be daunted by it.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Thank you. It's actually really inspiring. I can really see
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: myself doing this.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: You and Paul should do it together. I'm telling you.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: It's the best. Naked.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: That's how Paul would want it.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: Body painting. Roll around. Or with the kids. Children are
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: the best. They are the best artists. Completely free of judgment.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Comfortable in their skin. Children's art is just phenomenal. If
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: you can relearn that, that freedom.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: That freedom.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: That's the brass ring.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I do a thing on the radio show where if
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: we have a musical artist in, I have sheet music
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: and I'll just give it to them. Some of them
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: just sign it, but a lot of them draw a picture.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: And my most memorable one recently was Will Smith came
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: by and he said, Oh, I can't draw. I can't
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: draw at all.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: And I just said, whatever, you know, some people just
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: sign it, but I sure would like a picture. He
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: stared at that thing for so long. It's like you
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: were saying, Billy, And he drew this amazing photo of
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: like the thinker. It was the thinker. He sketched his
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: own version of the thinker. And then he like put
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: his name and then he wrote, I can't draw at all.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: And it was one of the most beautiful drawings. So
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: I think to your point, Billy, we all have it
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: in us.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: He needs to have a conversation with Billy.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Pull him out.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I just think that if you could make this a
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: whole movement, it would be such a fun like or
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know, something.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: To then, and I said we get back to it,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: and I did too. The timing is really curious and wonderful.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: So I've been co-hosting a podcast at Caltech from the
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: art-science bridge, as it were, with my co-host is Fred Farina.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: He's the chief innovation officer and head of the Office
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: of Technology Transfer and Corporate Partnerships and patent attorney, and
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: he commercializes or helps researchers with their, you know, and,
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: and students and post grads and docs, um, with their
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: transition into entrepreneurs and startups and spinning out the technology
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: out of the incredible brain trust of that institution. And, um,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: we've been interviewing professors, um, in the Einstein suite where Einstein.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Was living during his time on campus.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: And, um, I, And it's called the Einstein Suite, which
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: is really fun. And it's fascinating. And I, you know,
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: I talk about the, I like to say as an artist,
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: I'm free from the burden of expertise.
• 33:28
  Speaker 6: So I have no, I have no boundary of knowledge, which,
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: you know, where these experts are completely, you know, very concerned.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: You're like, I'm Billy Zane.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: I can grab a cocktail knowledge very quickly of the subject.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Find the pain point. You're solving for X.
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: Cool.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Cool. And ask the questions that some may not dare
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: at that time, like what if, or wouldn't it be cool,
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: or how about? I don't mean to simplify it, but
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: the beauty of the artist at the table, especially with
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: leading minds in quantum physics and robotics and AI who
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: are shaping our future, when the conversation comes from these
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: two points, it becomes really powerful.
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: And innovation happens because you're able to cover it from
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: a multidisciplinary perspective.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they appreciate that a lot too.
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: They do.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: So much so that I was just offered an artist
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: in residency.
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: Yay.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Which touches upon this kind of human intelligence component. This
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: creative intelligence. It's not just I'm going to, you know.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: But this stemmed from a current painting I'd been working
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: on and posting about. I was talking to. um viviana
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: gradinaru who had figured out how to cross the blood-brain
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: barrier non-non-invasively shall we say from an external with brute
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: force but with a carrier system interesting that is that
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: can deliver and deal with neurological disorder oh my god
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: i mean it's next gen and such a huge.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: And that's always been the stop it's been the stop.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: And she found a way to do it and they
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: call it Oh, my God. The FedEx of delivery. And
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: it's actually riding on benign, you know, form of almost
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: benign virus is what it goes through.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Really clever. And it's been, you know, picked up and
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: being developed and enhanced by, you know, pharma. And it's
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: a game changer.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: But we were talking about art and the power of art.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: And she had seen one of my paintings and said,
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: that's the blood-brain barrier. This one line. And I had
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: done it the night before. This one gesture on this piece.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: And you can cut to it. I'll send you a picture.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: At 11.48, it was time stamp because I took a
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: picture of it. I was up in the middle of
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: the night.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: I was in the middle of the night.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but late.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: Before I went to bed, I was like, I'm going
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: to mess with this. So I just had this instinct to,
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: you know, this little mini roller. I dipped it in
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: this paint. It was particularly wet and I didn't mind.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: I was like, okay. And I did this, whoom, this
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: one stroke and it started to drip. Mostly I paint
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: on the floor, but I had already hung this big
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: piece on the wall. So it was vertical. And that's
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: rare for me to work vertically on larger format. And
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: it started to run in a few key places. The
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: paint was red, looked kind of bloody. And I just
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: let it be. And where it dripped, it dripped. But
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: she identified this was somehow accurately representative of the blood-brain
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: barrier and how... in certain areas, it penetrates and goes
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: through and starts analyzing it this way, posts it, asks
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: her students or whomever on, on the, I guess the
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Caltech website. And what, um, what is this? What does
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: it look like? And they, well, it looks like the
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: Bradbury barrier and that's the brain and that's the, this,
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: and even there even was a little circle that looked
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: like a C for Caltech. It was kind of cute. And, uh,
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: and then she's floated out and where, who painted it?
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: And some, um, it was a fellow or a post-grad,
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: like new?
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Someone new, yeah.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: No, maybe they Googled it or whatever.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: But they saw it, they'd seen it.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: But they were like, it looks like Zane's work and whatever. Yeah.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: And then we started talking about this technique of using
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: art to free and round off the experience of the
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: engineer and perhaps tap part of their process that might
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: better inform, you know, as you start to, it's a
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: gateway to empathy and understanding and, you know, maybe asks
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: why we should do something, not just simply that you can,
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: you know, just starts to open up a, it's a
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: gateway to considerations that are not, I guess, typically afforded
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: or accessed.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Through science.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: And it just, this conversation blossomed into a, an invitation
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: to be coming.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Fantastic.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to be painting with these students.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: That is so exciting.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: As soon as this week, I'm taking them to the,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: it's crazy.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: That is so exciting.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: The fact that we're here talking about it, it's going
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: to be a lot of fun.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: You can be, well, see, it's just like you painting
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: that the night before. I didn't know any of this.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: And it just, the conversation just led to that through
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: you explaining how to get started painting. So it's kind
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: of like, you've got this kind of universal beat that's,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: that's kind of, Your momentum.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: We all do. It's the quantum. And that's one thing
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: I'm learning a lot about over there. We are all
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: quantumly connected.
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: Quantum.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: My dad's huge into that.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: My son just got his master's in AI from Stanford.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: And he was at a startup. He's moved on since
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: to another job, but he was at a startup. And
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: they were programming, programming, programming. And I said, oh, I
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: like what you gave back to me, but could you
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: make it fun? And that's one of the words they
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: had not introduced into their coding. Who said that?
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: It was fun.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, I said it to my son.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: I like what you gave back to me.
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: What did he give?
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, he gave me, it was a diagram I asked for,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: you know, for the show. And it was very, like, scientific.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I said, could you make this more fun? My show's fun.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Make it fun. He goes, you know, no one no
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: one codes with the word fun. Just like you've got
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: the art. They're not coding with art. Now they are.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: That's awesome.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: It's unbelievable.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: So they, so they're doing it now.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: They, they're doing it because you, you, you, I said, see,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: all it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Takes is a human. Yeah.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: A question.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: The human in the loop.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: It's the human in the loop.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Um, And it's a symbiotic relationship, though, because just coming
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: from pure art requires a little bit of structure.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: Requires analysis, empirical testing. And that's why the dance is
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: so exciting and so necessary when you complete the circle.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: But how brilliant that you were there, right there at
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: this point. breakthrough moment with that piece of art. Like,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: that just gives me the goosebumps.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: The night before, and I didn't know it.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: And you didn't know.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: And Viviana said it was, and it was the, it
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: was 15, it was the last 15 minutes of the
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: Buck Moon, for those who are, who enjoy what that means.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, I love that, but what's the Buck Moon? So
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: there was a very powerful.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Moon in the sky, and it was a 50, it
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: was time-stamped, the last 15 minutes of that day, I
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: forgot what day it was, and apparently that had some
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: mojo and meant something, and it was then that I
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: had to make that