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Developing Leaders in your Business · The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business

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Coming up on this episode of The Spiro podcast.
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Time,
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time, time, time, relationships, time.
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You have to understand in your company that is the biggest thing
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that you can give those relationships and your time with those individual.
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Welcome to the Spiro podcast.
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Managing your real estate photography and videography business
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with your hosts, Todd Kivimaki
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and Craig Magrum
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Hi, and welcome to the Spiro podcast,
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Managing your real estate photography and videography Business.
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Spiro is a software platform.
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We designed it to help you manage your day to day business and really
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ultimately to help you scale up in your business.
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I'm Craig Magrum and welcome to the podcast.
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Your host and
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what I can't even think of another title to give myself.
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I really don't need to, I guess.
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Let me introduce Todd, because Todd is is the owner
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and founder of Spiro Co and co-host of the podcast.
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You know, it's been one of those mornings already.
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- Todd - Oh, Craig, it's Friday for us right now.
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So if you're listening
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sorry if it's not Friday for you, but we've got that to be excited about.
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And I learned that you just built on one little bit of excitement.
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It's going to be a great day.
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It is. I'm super excited.
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Before we dive into Spiro updates and then the main topic this is
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I experienced a first, let's start with a little bit of a laugh, Todd.
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Oh, yes, I love these, Craig.
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I experienced the first on a shoot that I did yesterday up in my market.
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So one of our practices is we usually we either put,
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you know, your foot covers or, you know, foot booties, shoe booties on or
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take your shoes off before you go into a seller's home.
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Right.
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So I get to my my listing here in
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and there's some contractors rushing to try and get last minute.
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- You know painting - we love that. Right?
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- we love the contractors - I pulled up on my
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my realtor knows better.
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But anyway, that point aside,
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they were actually wrapping up and getting ready and, you know,
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like, hey, we're going to be out of here in just a minute.
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I'm like, okay, no problem.
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I can I'll start back room or something.
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So I take my shoes off.
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I go through the garage,
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take my shoes off to go into the house, through the garage, and just to, you know,
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a regular pair of black hey, dude, shoes super comfy, easy to get on and off.
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You know, I go for practicality.
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I go in, I start doing my shoot.
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The contractors are cleaning it up.
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Hey, you know, we're pulling out in just a minute.
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I'm like, okay, no problem.
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You know, keep shooting.
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They finish getting wrapped up, cleaned up,
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you know, cleaned stuff out of the garage and they pull out of the driveway.
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I'm like, okay, I've got the place to myself.
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You know, we've got Yes, we love that.
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Leave me alone. Let me do my job. Right.
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And so I finish up my photos and my video in the house
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and I step back out into the garage and I look for my shoes
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because I left them right at the base of the stairs.
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And my shoes Todd are gone.
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They are M.I.A. Missing in action. Gone.
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I'm like, No, I know.
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I left my shoes right here.
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So I start to panic just a little bit and laugh at the same time because,
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like, this is ridiculous.
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- Where my shoes go? - and this is an empty house, right?
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A new build.
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It's a vacant house. Right?
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It's not like you accidentally left under the sofa.
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Right? Exactly.
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I like those contractors. Took my shoes.
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They took my shoes.
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What the heck?
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So I'm like,
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maybe they just got moved out of the way or as they were cleaning it up.
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So I looked all through the garage. No shoes.
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I look in the garbage cans, no shoes.
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I go back in the house.
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Well, maybe they put them in the closet to get them out of the way.
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No shoes.
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Oh, I gone, gone, Just gone and gone In 60 seconds.
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Do you keep an extra pair of shoes in your car?
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I never thought of keeping an extra shoe nearby,
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but I think
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that's going to be added to my checklist now.
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So I text.
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The realtor. I’m like.
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This is a first in my career as a real estate photographer,
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but
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oh my goodness
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I think the contractors took my shoes.
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Could you check with, please?
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Sure enough, she writes back, Oh, my gosh, you got to be kidding me.
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Yeah, I'll. I'll get back to you.
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Yeah, the the lead contractor took the shoes thinking it was his son's shoes.
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Who is on his team and I couldn't wait around
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because I had another, you know, another event to get to. And.
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And so I left without my shoes.
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Had to head back home.
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I mean, you know, shouldn't stop anywhere.
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So I'm driving barefoot home and I just get into the driveway of my home.
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Hey, the contractor took it back to the house.
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You you can get them.
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I'm like, Oh, grief, I'm already back on it.
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35 minutes away.
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Oh, my gosh.
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Well, the good news is, Todd, the shoes have been recovered.
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I just have to pick them up today.
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- But it was - like they're not back in your possession.
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No, no, not yet.
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- I have to go get them - they're sitting there.
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Who knows who's going to take them between now and then?
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No, they they put them inside the house for me.
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There was no there's no showings today, so I'm good.
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Oh, Craig, that is a fir says
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if anyone else lost their shoes out there listening.
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Yeah, we need to do an episode of just, you know,
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funny stories on the job.
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In fact, maybe we could do that.
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Send us your funny stories.
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What crazy things have happened to you?
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And I will read them or read them on air here.
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Yes, Yes, we'll do that.
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So you can email us. hello@spiro.media.
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Send us your crazy stories of things that have happened to you on shoots
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and or you can leave a comment on the YouTube channel.
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We will keep an eye out
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- for your crazy stories, but - maybe we could reenact those, Craig.
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You know, I have a background in radio.
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We could do a radio play of crazy events, you know,
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in the day in the life of Yeah.
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It's like the precursor to TV.
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That's what they use it on the radio.
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It was radio was the leader of the mind the theater.
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I you know, I actually do like listening to old radio dramas.
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I mean, they did such a good job on those.
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- Anyway, - I'll have to check them out, Craig.
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The Phantom. Check out the Phantom, or War of the Worlds.
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There's The War of the Worlds is pretty awesome.
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Okay.
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Yeah. Okay. All right,
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There's our funny story to start off the podcast, let's let's dive
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into Spiro updates a major,
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major update just recently launched
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Holy, holy cow.
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Yes, a big update.
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This touched so many portions of the system
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and it was due like we these were came these came from the top of the idea board.
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So the biggest one was we got rid of the old reshoot process
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and you have a create appointment, an additional appointment
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button now and you can use that if you need to go back and shoot drone
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because it's not rainy now. You can use it.
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If your photographer
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forgot to shoot the basement and you need to send them back out there,
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you can use that if you need to go a different time
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because you're scheduling a Twilight shoot.
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So any reason to go back out to the property again
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or and again can be many times three or four times we don't limit them.
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You can quickly and easily add that
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the next one just going down the list is we have decoupled.
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You have to toggle it on.
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It's an option,
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but you can decouple checking into an appointment and sending the text message
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to the next appointment so you can check in, but not send.
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And then when you go in, you preview
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the house, you lose your shoes and you're ready to send the message.
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You can send you can send the message.
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I did not lose my shoes.
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They were stolen from me.
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I know exactly where I put my shoes.
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I didn't lose anything.
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Okay. I see where your dog.
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I think I agree.
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Next one is you can change your Cubicasa product right in the portal.
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So that was a big one.
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You all asked for many others.
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There's a list of them.
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We sent an email out,
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one that we actually forgot to announce and you'll probably hear from now
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because this is lagging quite a bit, but you can now allow your agents
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to modify any part of the property website.
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The biggest one that you all have asked for.
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You said, Hey, some of my agents, they want to upload their own photos
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or their own floorplan or their own disclaimer.
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You have to toggle this on to allow them to do it.
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But once you toggle it on in your settings,
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they can have full right at that page and they don't need to send that to you.
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So that's the biggest thing here and I'll be done with updates,
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is the fact that these come from you.
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And I want you to know that, you know, in a day of today
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and we just had elections and not going into that, but
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day is like, does my word, does my vote count like it does?
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Go look at that feature based request board
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and from the top down, you will see what we are working on.
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So that board, if you're like, What are you talking about, Todd?
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is in the upper right hand corner.
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Click the feedback button, It'll take you right to the board where we track those.
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You can vote on them and you can add more.
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And if you don't have a spare account, check it out.
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At spiro.media you can sign up for a free account
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and then you can see what Todd is talking about.
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Yes, please sign up.
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We'd love to have you in our community.
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Absolutely.
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All right.
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Well, thank you for the updates on that.
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That's awesome.
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All right.
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We're going to we're just going to dive right in.
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This is going to be a lean, mean, quick episode,
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but full of some very important things.
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As an owner and a leader in your real estate media business.
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And Todd, you know, here where we're where we're at in Ohio,
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the Northern Hemisphere winter is coming on.
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Things slowed down a little bit and now is the perfect time to work,
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not in your business, but work on your business.
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It's something that we really I don't know that we've done an episode on.
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I could be wrong on this, but I'm not remembering
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this is as your company grows you as a leader,
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your role is going to change and morph and evolve over time.
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And one of those things that you have to be able to concentrate on is,
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is the captain of your ship is developing officers and leaders below you
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to then help lead your team.
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So we want to dive in this week.
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Todd, I want to kind of pick your brain on
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how do you develop leaders in your company.
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And I've got a whole list of questions that I'd love to.
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We're not going to get through all of them, but
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I think this is a really important topic
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in growing and scaling your business is how do you develop leaders?
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And I know it's not related to photography or video, but
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it is a good general business and life issue
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that we need to learn how to do is how do we develop leaders under us?
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And that could be your family,
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that could be your business, that could be your church.
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True, true.
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This this applies to every area of life.
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It's how your
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your role has evolved since you started Wow video tours 20 years ago.
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So you've developed as a leader and you've learned how to develop leaders so
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This is a disclaimer, I don't know what any of these questions are.
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You also right,
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Craig is suggesting it's going to be lean short to the point
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because I'm probably not going to have a whole lot of good answers.
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So he'll ask the questions we just saw on the screen.
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We just saw that episode, Todd.
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we just saw the effectiveness of this episode
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All right. Sorry. We'll cut that out.
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- No, I would leave it in - I think we need to leave that in
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anyway. Okay.
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Well, let's just dive in because.
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No, I think you've you've shared things with us
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and I've listened to you and you've coaching on this,
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but let's just start right off as you're growing and you're realizing
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I need to kind of more for what I'm doing
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and I need some people to take over some of what I do and lead
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the rest of the team in these particular items.
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Whatever area of the business it is.
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The first question I would ask is what qualities
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are you looking for in somebody to develop as a leader?
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What's the skill set?
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What's the character, what's the integrity?
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What are the qualities
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of of a person that you're looking for that you want to develop into a leader?
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So from from an owner's perspective,
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when we bring people into the team that they will
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have a position that leads people.
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Is that the context that we're speaking from?
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It could be an it could be somebody that just joined it.
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Maybe they're just a I don't want to say just let me rephrase that, because
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every role is critical.
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Important Say you hire a customer service person
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and you hired them as a customer service person,
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but you
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didn't think much about developing them into a leader.
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What are the qualities that you're looking for in that person
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to potentially elevate them
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to a leadership type of role, say, over customer, other customer service?
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Okay. Yeah, perfect.
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I understand.
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It's a good question because you hire on and one thing
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that we always do when we suggest that you do when new hires
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have them take a personality test, we do the disc test.
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There's many out there.
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If you don't know what those results mean, you should spend some time.
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You should take the test
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and you should understand what personality type you are and then
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read a book, watch a video, listen to a podcast
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or two about personality types, because I think that's a huge
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magnifying glass
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into an individual and you just want to make sure that you're hiring
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someone for the position that has a correct personality type.
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Just a quick example. Customer service.
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You do not want to High D personality and generalizing, but D personality.
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It is. They are dominant personalities.
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They are going to tell people what, what it is,
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what they think and what the reason is, because they're helping them out.
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They see it as a positive.
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Like, why would I not say what I think is going to help?
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You were a C personality who wants everybody to be okay
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is going to spend more time and they care about the person.
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So that is the first thing is that personality type.
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Make sure you get the correct role there.
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Then to answer your question, Craig, as
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that person comes in and is on and is onboarded
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and gets trained after they get over the first 90,
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you know, maybe more days, you start to really get
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insight as to who they are.
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And so things that I would be looking at and times that we've hired
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someone and said, Hey, this person could actually do a lot more for us.
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One is the care, the care that they provide.
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You can really tell someone who's going to do a task and then someone
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who has the ability to read into the task a little bit more.
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Yeah.
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Quick example, Let's go to the customer service example that we're on
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and you can train them and do some scripting with them to handle
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90% of the questions
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that come in and the needs that your clients have.
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And in those responses, when you have a customer service,
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your admin come back to you and say, Hey, this client use these types of phrases.
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And I think they might be thinking about going somewhere else,
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that that would show to me that they want to have
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a high extreme level of care for your business.
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They care that you might be losing a client.
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Yeah.
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Another example is they come and say, Hey, could you I want to know more
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about the way we do drone and the way that we do our agent on camera.
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I just I want to be able to serve.
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I want to be able to answer
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these questions that right there would say they have an extreme
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level of care because they want to do it to serve the client.
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In turn, it's going to make you more money,
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but they see it as a way to expand your business.
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So that's one thing that I always look
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for, is individuals that were thinking at a higher level.
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Okay.
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And then the flip side of that is if if you have more than one employee,
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you have a great insight as to how they interact with each other.
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So if you have someone that steps up and says, hey,
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this individual will came to me and I've showed them
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how to do these items,
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and I'm wondering if it would be okay if I did a guide or if I spent
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a little more time with them.
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Could I schedule a meeting with them?
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That's what you will naturally.
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Natural leaders possess that where they will come in and they
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they will see a problem and they will look for a solution.
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Even if it's on their job description or not.
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And that solution can come in many different ways.
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So just be in tune as to is it is it
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solution to serve your clients better,
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to make sure the team morale, to gather the team.
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So those are some things that I would look for
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and knowing like, hey, this person possesses the ability to lead people,
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that's really good.
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So a phrase you just use kind of triggered something in my mind.
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You said natural leaders.
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So there are definitely people that, yes, they're natural born leaders.
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They just have this propensity to step out in front
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and really encourage people, lead people, get them going,
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have you ever had a case, though, where you've seen leadership potential
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in somebody that didn't realize that about themselves in
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they're the type of person of what I would call a reluctant leader?
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So that's a great question.
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I'm trying to think of some examples over the years at Wow
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and if you haven't, that's okay.
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well, both of my leaders who run the company
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now, Jess and Steve, they did not come in to do that position.
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They they came in, you know, Steve came in to run marketing.
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So we hired him.
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We knew he was going to build and run a division, not sales and marketing,
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and be in tune for, you know, as much as we grown and projections and leading.
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Then a sales manager and a team. Jess came in, fantastic
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photographer, had a great eye and now she leads our entire operations.
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So I would say and I'm saying this knowing that
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Jess would be okay with me saying this, so I'm not talking behind her back,
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but this is a positive.
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But the thing with Jess is she is a natural leader, but
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she would probably say that she is isn't because she doesn't she
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she doesn't have the confidence, but she can do incredibly crazy things.
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And and to have that like I I've known she's always had that
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and the thing with Jess is she knows how to win
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and I guess I won't go much too much into that.
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But people who know how to win cultivate winning
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and the thing about
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Jess is so for me
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so Jess possesses the skills and she has really,
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really great people skills and she's incredibly smart as well.
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She just doesn't think she is. Okay, let me compare that to me.
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I think I can do anything.
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I'm dumb enough to think I can do anything, honestly.
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Like I was raised in a way that like my my mom, my mother,
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it was like, okay, you can do that. She would help me.
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She whatever it was a project, an idea she would help facilitate me
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getting to that.
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And so I think I can do anything, but I have such little talent.
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It's like, but my brain pushes me through there.
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So I get up from like, I can do anything.
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I'll, I'll figure that out.
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And like, I'm dumb enough to keep trying and I'm consistent.
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I'm consistent and persistent enough that I generally figure it out.
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So that's the big difference as to where you might find someone who
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you see those skills in them like a Jess and you know, like she's a winner
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and she can get a team to win, but she just doesn't think she can.
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Yeah,
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okay.
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I mean she does now.
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let me like she understands and through building her up and her
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and I developing a relationship, this might get to some other questions,
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but just I just wanted to clarify.
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Like she she's proud of what she's accomplished.
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She probably won't tell you it's as much as she has.
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But if I talk about it would be way more than what she said she would accomplish.
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Yeah, and that does lead to the next question then.
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So once you've identified those individuals or individual that you want
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to start to develop into a leader, what does that process look like?
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What you've gone from you used to do the shoots
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to then pulling out of doing the shoots and running the business.
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So what do you as owners, as leader, what do you do in to train
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somebody and grow them into a leader yourself?
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How do you even start that process with somebody?
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And what does your day look like or week look like, spending time with them
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to grow them?
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Yeah, great question, because this is one that I fumbled on
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enough times over the years to get figured out.
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It took a coach talking to me and talking me through this. Time,
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time, time, time, relationships, time.
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You have to understand in your company that is the biggest thing
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that you can give those relationship s in your time with those individual.
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So just think of it.
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You know, I was I was going through an old notebook
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and a coach told me and I have this written down from many, many years ago,
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but everything you do becomes symbolic.
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remember you and you don't think of this because you are just you.
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And you might think my company small and you might think
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it's just one employee, it's just one virtual assistant.
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But you are the head of your company
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and they look at what you do way more than you think they do.
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If you're positive that is going to breed positivity.
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If you're negative, you know it's going to spread a whole bunch of negativity.
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So, you know, when my coach said this to me
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and using the word symbolic, I'm like, What are you talking about?
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Like symbolic?
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Are you serious? Dennis? Like, come on.
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But it really is.
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It's symbolic with them and you need to spend time and they need
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to feel and see
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you putting time and care and effort into them
22:03
so that then
22:03
they can gain the confidence and in that spending some of that time.
22:08
Another word that I use a ton and I learned this
22:10
with my next coach, Dave, but is you need to empower the team
22:15
because right now you hold all the power in your company.
22:18
It's on your head.
22:20
You think about this company all of the time
22:24
Even if you don't think you're thinking about it,
22:26
how many of you wake up in the middle of the night like,
22:28
Oh my goodness, I just solve that.
22:30
I can't tell you how many times I wake up and I'm like, wide eyed
22:34
And I'm like, Oh my goodness, that's my next idea.
22:37
Yeah.
22:38
And, you know, you write it down so you don't forget it
22:40
or all get it in the shower, but you get it in these unconscious times
22:44
because you think about your business all the time
22:48
So when
22:50
you put an employee into that and especially an employee that you want to
22:53
lead, you have to hand over the reins
22:56
and you have to be verbal about that.
23:00
And then you have to tell the team that they have the reins
23:02
and then you have to go back to the person you gave the reins
23:05
and you have to encourage them.
23:09
You have to tell them they can do it, that you trust them and let them do it.
23:13
Tell them that you don't mind mistakes.
23:16
You know they're going to make mistakes and that you make mistakes every day.
23:18
I make mistakes every day personally.
23:21
mistakes are okay.
23:22
We'll learn from them. That's how we grow.
23:24
It took years and years of me saying that for the team
23:30
- to begin to somewhat believe it, - it was to say the issues, believing it.
23:36
Because I've had roles that I've been given that were leadership in nature
23:40
that I just I constantly doubted myself and questioned myself
23:43
and didn't believe that I had the ability or the power or,
23:47
you know, the authority to make the decisions that I did
23:50
because I was so used to the top down model of leadership
23:54
where you have to run everything through, you know, the head person.
23:58
And that's such a great point.
23:59
Sorry.
24:00
But just remember, you all think
24:02
differently out there listening.
24:05
I, I had a job in high school, and I waited tables in college
24:10
for a couple of years in college, and then I started my business.
24:14
I don't think of that mentality.
24:15
I just think of what's a problem.
24:17
Let me find a solution that top the my whole art coach or chart.
24:21
I don't know what that is.
24:22
I don't know what any of that stuff is.
24:24
My brain and your guys's brain works in such a free form way
24:28
that you have to understand you're way different than an employee
24:31
who comes in and says, Tell me what you want me to do.
24:33
I want you to be happy with me.
24:36
And but there's a level of and a limit of somewhat what they're going to do.
24:40
And you should expect me more than that.
24:41
I mean, they're just they are your employees.
24:43
Like you owe it for them to come in and do this.
24:45
But they don't think like you.
24:48
So you said
24:50
again, I'm keying in on certain words that you're using.
24:54
You said the word trust,
24:55
that you trust that person to lead and you need to communicate that to them.
24:59
If you're the type of person, though, that you're so used
25:01
to doing everything yourself and you're a hands on, you want to
25:04
you want to have your hands on on the work, which is kind of how I'm wired
25:07
is I like having my hands on.
25:10
How do you as you're growing as a leader and having to develop leaders,
25:14
how do you make that that mental switch in your mind
25:18
that I'm willing to let go of the reins and trust the trust?
25:22
because that's your baby.
25:24
That business is your baby, right?
25:26
Yeah.
25:26
And can you ever really, truly trust someone else to take care of it
25:30
and and have the passion for it that you do as the owner?
25:34
How do you develop that trust in others, Todd?
25:37
This is this is a great a great, great question.
25:40
I'll use a Steveisms so Steve
25:42
my director of sales and marketing at Wow
25:45
trust but verify
25:47
- That's what we use - Ronald Reagan
25:51
is is that wrong?
25:52
That's Ronald Reagan.
25:55
There he is. So trust but verify.
25:57
And that is
26:00
we trust them to do it, but we're going to verify that they do.
26:03
And you're not going to you're not going to come and be like,
26:05
hey, it's time to verify you did what I wanted.
26:07
Okay?
26:08
You're going to you're going to meet with them
26:09
at a regular cadence once a week, probably,
26:12
and you're going to discuss these things and you're going to check up on them.
26:16
And, hey, how did this thing go?
26:18
And I know you told me that someone you were going to send me this email.
26:21
Did I miss that email?
26:23
So I use a lot of phrases like that when I'm when I'm talking,
26:26
I always assume that they did
26:29
what they said
26:31
they were going to do, but I'm I forget things.
26:35
I'm human and I know some things.
26:37
Technology can happen, emails get lost.
26:39
So I always assume they didn't ask and I put it back on myself that I missed that.
26:44
That was I'm sorry.
26:45
If I did, I will. Yes, go to that.
26:48
And then you've backed into it.
26:50
You still want the answer from them and they go, Oh, no, it was me.
26:53
I'm so sorry. I'll send it to you right now.
26:55
kind of a non-confrontational way to hold accountability.
26:59
Yes, I used to love confrontation,
27:02
and I come up with things
27:04
I love confrontation.
27:06
I've never heard that phrase.
27:08
No, no, it's not.
27:10
I used to love confrontation. Oh, I thought I'd.
27:13
I, I thought you said I used to love confrontation.
27:17
What's the look of what's this new message I've heard?
27:20
I'm just speaking too fast today.
27:23
Let me rephrase that and let me redo that bleep.
27:25
Cut it out, Justine. No, you keep it.
27:27
I use Craig.
27:29
I used to love confrontation. Okay.
27:32
All right, All right.
27:34
I hate confrontation, Todd
27:38
So it's good to have a leader
27:39
that has learned how to back into the conversation,
27:43
the accountability conversation, that that puts people like me at ease.
27:48
But yeah, if my leaders coming at me, Hey, where's that email?
27:51
My defenses go up, I get or I get just super scared or nervous
27:55
or then I, I already critique myself harshly as it is.
28:01
So you're coming to somebody in a non-threatening way,
28:05
but still holding accountability that that's good.
28:09
Yeah.
28:09
And I will say that I fine tune this message pending who I'm talking to.
28:15
I know everybody's personality in the company.
28:18
Many of us are high C personalities.
28:22
Some of us are our D personalities.
28:24
I don't soften anything when I talk to a D personality, you know,
28:27
because they see it as wasteful.
28:29
You don't have to know, in fact,
28:30
that they be like, why are you even like, why would you even soften that?
28:34
And they won't they won't use the word softer.
28:36
But that's the approach of this is like, Hey, no, I won't do no, we can't do this.
28:40
Sorry.
28:41
Like there's no so you can fine
28:44
tune that over the years, but you have to be aware of yourself
28:48
before you gain an understanding of how you impact others.
28:50
And then you need to be a chameleon and personality type and you need to match
28:55
that personality type of that person that you're communicating with.
28:59
You know, there's there's value to taking that approach with clients as well.
29:04
Oh, my goodness yes.
29:05
Just this week, Chris and I had a meeting with a broker up
29:09
in my market that we'd like to extend expand business with.
29:13
And I've this is the first time I believe, that I had actually sat down with him.
29:17
I'd always dealt with his marketing manager, but I knew his
29:21
I knew his reputation as a cut to the chase.
29:25
- Let's get down to brass tacks business type of - I know who you're talking about.
29:29
Okay.
29:30
And well, you might you might not.
29:33
It might be somebody else that. Okay.
29:35
Yeah.
29:35
Anyway, so I asked Chris if he would join me
29:39
for this conversation because I'm the type that I do like more.
29:43
The conversation, the relationship building, whatnot.
29:46
That was not going to work with this guy.
29:48
And Chris said, Yeah, I can I can be a
29:52
well, he can
29:53
cut down to business as well and okay, that's it.
29:57
So I know he said it was good to have Chris with me to help
30:01
get down to the conversation because I'm the Yeah, I'm
30:04
the warm fuzzy And Chris is like, okay, yeah, you want to talk business?
30:07
So here's the numbers.
30:08
You know, let's hash it out
30:09
and it the whole the whole meeting took maybe 15 minutes
30:13
and we got a commitment that he's going to test us out for the rest of year
30:16
for all of his listings now.
30:18
he's a big lister.
30:20
He is. He is.
30:21
I'm like, Chris, thank you for coming up. I appreciate that.
30:24
So it's okay to call in reinforcements to compensate your personality type.
30:28
But yeah, learning people's personalities and how to communicate to
30:32
them is a huge part of leadership.
30:33
And in developing leaders as well, but also developing clients.
30:37
So this relationship has been further developed because Chris knew
30:40
how to just cut down too.
30:42
I probably could have, but Chris was able to bring some insight
30:45
into the conversation that I didn't even think of.
30:48
So public kudos to Chris.
30:51
Chris is fantastic.
30:52
Yes, I've learned a lot from Chris about that. Yeah.
30:55
Craig if you would have done it like that, you would have felt so bad about it.
30:58
I guess maybe the client would have picked up on it.
31:00
I would have felt dirty.
31:02
Yeah, that's how I would I would have felt dirty
31:04
because I'm not the type to just hardcore go after the business.
31:08
Yeah, that's great insight.
31:09
Yeah, he would have.
31:11
He would have sense weakness probably.
31:15
Yeah.
31:15
Could have potentially and even say the client was never going to do it.
31:18
If you would not have gotten it, you would have felt so bad
31:21
about not getting it even if it was not dependent on your personality,
31:25
your delivery that it just was.
31:28
That was super smart to have.
31:29
Craig There you have Chris there with that conversation.
31:32
Yeah, there was good.
31:33
So the importance of learning people's
31:34
personalities and how to communicate to the different personalities
31:38
is a huge part of leadership.
31:39
And in growing leaders, we have time for, I think one more question.
31:44
This might be a part two that we go to on this
31:46
because there's some really good stuff here.
31:48
The last question I have, Todd, is in developing leaders,
31:52
there's there's managers and there's leaders?
31:55
And in developing leaders, I would think that
31:59
there's a different way to develop people into leaders versus managers.
32:02
What's the fine line?
32:05
What do you need to avoid
32:07
to develop just managers versus developing leaders?
32:10
What is that difference and what's the difference in the training techniques?
32:15
Yeah, that's a good question.
32:16
So I think just off the top of my head, my first gut says Craig,
32:19
that one is an as an extension or is more of the other.
32:24
So if you're at the point
32:26
where you have multiple employees and as we grew up, wow, you know,
32:30
you can manage personally three, four or five employees
32:35
as you start to go to five to 10 to 15 and then beyond,
32:38
you are beginning to have divisions and you need those divisions
32:42
to focus on the goal of that division. Yeah.
32:46
So you can't do all of that.
32:48
That's that's really not going to be possible.
32:50
At least I could not do all that.
32:52
I could not do it with the with the care and the needs that they had.
32:57
So naturally, just for us, we would
33:01
observe people
33:03
that possess the ability to manage people.
33:07
And this could be start off as you just make them a supervisor
33:11
and maybe they manage lunch breaks,
33:13
they manage time off, they manage just a few other
33:17
just smaller things that you want to give them to begin with.
33:21
You know, honestly, if two people take their lunch at the same time,
33:24
is your company going to close? No.
33:27
So come up with some of those things and give them that supervisor role
33:30
and see how they fit.
33:32
And you can see people that want more.
33:36
And then generally, naturally, those people become
33:40
supervisor, the supervisor, the manager.
33:44
And at that point
33:46
they they lead more of a team
33:48
and you have a better idea because now they have more responsibilities.
33:52
So as a manager they are now looking at divisional responsibilities.
33:58
So this is not just carry out these items that I've trained you to do.
34:03
That's what a supervisor does.
34:04
A manager is building things.
34:07
Okay, So there is there is a problem here.
34:10
It's for them to find the solution
34:12
where your supervisor, if there's a problem, follow the SOP.
34:16
You know, follow the procedure and the bottom of the procedure
34:21
says else contact your manager.
34:24
Basically, or come to the owner and then you'll make the decision.
34:28
So when you're when you want to empower someone to make those decisions,
34:32
you want to offload those decisions that could impact your company.
34:36
That's what a manager does.
34:38
So from the manager to the leader, to answer your question, for me,
34:42
it was just that care that I saw that they they possessed the
34:47
the desire to want to grow the company.
34:50
They put the company before themselves at times.
34:52
And that's not a true indicator.
34:55
You don't want people that just want to work 80 hours.
34:57
I tell my I tell Steve and Jess, like, go home, get it.
34:59
No, you say, I'm going to work on this over the weekend.
35:01
Steve's always like, I'm going to go work on this for the Steve
35:04
No, please don't work on it.
35:05
Well, I just want to get it done.
35:07
Like Steve, I would really love if you don't work on that.
35:10
And so that extreme level
35:13
and sometimes you go, okay, I understand you want to get this done.
35:17
It is bothering you, no problem.
35:18
Just can you maybe come in a few hours later on Monday
35:21
just so that you have a little rest?
35:22
Yeah, because you
35:23
because the idea of someone that can just put their head down and work through.
35:28
I think it's
35:30
a like a misdiagnosed quality in America.
35:36
Like, we look at it from a cultural standpoint
35:39
to say, I worked 80 hours this week. I used to do that.
35:42
I used to work 80 hours or more, and I would be proud of myself
35:46
And I look back at that Todd like I just wasn't good enough
35:50
to only work 40 hours like,
35:53
look, look at how bad I was at that point.
35:56
I felt like I needed to work double the amount of normal hours in a week.
36:01
So I'm digressing here a bit.
36:04
But yeah, I knew Steve and Jess were going to run it
36:09
because they kept asking for more and they kept
36:12
taking the initiatives that I gave them and then I'd give them a little more
36:16
and then I'd give them a little bit more.
36:18
And then at
36:20
when they transitioned to a leaders, that's when I go, Hey, I trust you guys.
36:24
What is the vision of this?
36:26
Where do we want to go?
36:27
Yeah, and then and then that's when and they'll ask you.
36:31
They asked me this this week because we did pumpkin planning.
36:33
We literally did it on the front board.
36:35
I wrote down.
36:36
They didn't know we were doing pumpkin planning to begin with.
36:38
I wrote down our initiatives.
36:39
I spaced them over the board and I said, What's potential?
36:43
What are liabilities in it?
36:45
How blue or red is the ocean and number of stars.
36:49
And then I stood back and I drew pumpkins around each one of them.
36:52
They kind of smiled and smirked at me.
36:54
One because my pumpkins look nothing like this.
36:57
But then they were like, okay, I get what you're doing.
36:59
Yeah. And they asked me which ones do you want to do?
37:02
And I said, Guys, I want to do the ones that you feel the most excited about.
37:09
So that's the big difference between a manager
37:11
and what I look to as my leaders at the company.
37:16
You want to build morale in your leaders,
37:19
put that kind of trust in them.
37:21
Like Todd just said, I want to do what you think
37:25
is most exciting to you,
37:27
because then they're going to love their job,
37:29
They're going to love their responsibilities.
37:31
It'll almost not be work for them.
37:34
So, yeah, showing that kind of trust in the people that you're growing
37:38
as leaders will just create nothing but good things for you guys
37:44
to as an employee to have that kind of leadership,
37:47
that that vibe, for lack of a better word, will just trickle down
37:52
and you'll have much more likelihood of having happy employees and a happy team
37:57
when you're you're setting the direction of the culture at the top like that.
38:02
It trickles down.
38:03
It just it does, It trickles down.
38:06
Mhm. Yeah.
38:08
Good stuff.
38:09
So yeah, how to develop leaders in your organization and getting yourself
38:14
there mentally yourself to be able to shoot, to place trust in the people
38:20
to take those things over that you've, you've been used to doing yourself.
38:24
Todd Any closing thoughts?
38:26
Just a quick buck if you want more.
38:28
The E-Myth Everybody says it, but I would if you are
38:31
just getting into your leadership journey.
38:35
E-Myth is Great.
38:36
I think it's a very it's a story based.
38:38
It will resonate with you.
38:41
And then the other one is
38:44
by the OGs Burger Institute.
38:46
It's called Leadership and Self-deception Thinking outside of the Box.
38:52
If you haven't read those and you want to become a better leader, that I do.
38:57
I love both of those.
38:59
Both of those are narrative based.
39:01
Those seem to be my favorite type of business book.
39:05
So that would be my two suggestions if you're looking for more.
39:08
Yeah. Excellent.
39:09
John Maxwell has a whole library of books as well on leadership.
39:15
And he does get into the difference between managers and leaders
39:19
and how you train a leader versus what, what managers are.
39:24
So yeah, check out John Maxwell.
39:25
He's just, he's got tons of resources as well
39:27
and no degree we're not sponsored by any of these books were not
39:31
there's no what's the word I'm looking for.
39:34
No affiliate links.
39:35
We will provide a link to the books,
39:37
but we're not getting any sort of financial recompense for that.
39:41
Just we just want to give you
39:42
a good, rich resources to help you strengthen your business. So
39:46
you should call John
39:47
and see if we could get a kick back here right.
39:51
John
39:51
I've read so many of your books.
39:54
He would probably love the initiative that I showed in doing that.
39:58
Or are we get a cease and deceased
40:03
Yeah. Good stuff.
40:04
Good stuff. All right.
40:06
Well, we hope this has been of benefit to you.
40:10
You know, again, leave us comment about crazy stories
40:12
that have happened to you on the shoot, on the appointment.
40:15
And just if you have some things that you've learned in developing leaders,
40:19
again, share those stories with us.
40:21
We love to hear from you.
40:23
Drop us an email.
40:23
hello@spiro.media or you can also leave a comment on the YouTube channel.
40:28
And we would love to hear back from you.
40:30
And as always, if you've found value in the podcast,
40:34
make sure you leave it like share it, subscribe or all of that good stuff.
40:38
But we do appreciate you guys watching and listening.
40:41
So thank you for joining us again this week.
40:43
And with that, that's going to wrap things up, make sure that you just take it
40:47
and take some time to just be thankful for the blessings in your life
40:52
as we get ready to celebrate Thanksgiving here in the U.S.
40:55
And make sure you take a breath this week as well.
40:57
You guys have a great week.
40:59
Thank you for joining us for the Spiro podcast,
41:02
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41:05
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41:09
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41:13
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