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JDUB INJURY?! Shai’s MVP Push & the Thunder’s Biggest Concern Right Now… · Bring The Thunder Podcast

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You're listening to the Bring the Thunder Podcast, a podcast
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by fans, for fans. Yes, you are.
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Welcome everybody to another episode from the Bring the
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Thunder Podcast today. We have some great topics for
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you guys. There's not been a lot in terms
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of news and whatnot outside of the NBA, but OKC's got some good
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stuff coming. We got some good news covering
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some injuries, cover some J Dub activity, and then we're gonna
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talk about Shay as well. So without further ado, fellas,
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let's get right into it, starting with some Jalen
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Williams talk. Satvir, what do you got for us
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about J Dub this season? Yeah.
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I mean, since he's been back, he's really helped us on the
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assist category. That's the place where I'm
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looking at his stats. They've actually increased from
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last year from about 5 assists a game to nearly six assists a
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game. The rest of his game has been
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pretty steady in the fact that his turnover percentage is a
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little bit lower. That's something that's more of
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a positive sign. I would say the thing that he's
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still recovering on is the longer 3 ball shots he has been
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shooting only I think 28% and that's really close to getting
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towards the bottom of the league because there's very little
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players that are shooting less than 29%.
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And I think that's just something to do with his injury
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and I think that's something that we can definitely cover
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here. But as of late, he's been taking
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a good amount of field goal attempts per game.
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It's they've started to increase in his last five games, starting
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from the Golden State Warriors game, he only put up 11 shots
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and then he put up 131415. And then the latest game he put
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up 18 on 50% shooting from the field.
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And he took 33 pointers in that one.
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And I think he needs to sit around a less 3 point percent at
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like attempts per game. They're I would say that's
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something that he should probably focus on.
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I'm looking at his attempts actually are way down.
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And I think that's on purpose. I think his attempts are as low
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as his rookie season. He's at about 2.8 on his rookie
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season. He was at 2.7 last year.
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His attempts were up to almost 5A game.
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So that tells you he definitely knows where his strengths and
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weaknesses are. And that actually gives me a
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vote of confidence in him to, you know, for the long term of
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the season, Like, if he knows, like what's going to work for
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him, there's some players that will just continue to shoot it
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when they know that's not something that they should be
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doing. And with J Dub, he's at least,
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you know, acknowledged it publicly and he's done tons of
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quotes about his, you know, injury and what it may mean long
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term. But I think long term wise,
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considering the way he's playing, at least from the eye
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test, he looks fantastic in my opinion.
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I just think it's more of just getting used to it and I think
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over the offseason is going to be the big thing.
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As long as he doesn't re aggravate or have some injury at
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the end of the season, he'll have time to actually like work
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on the shot, see what works for him.
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And then I think going into like next season, we should see a
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regular J dub. I mean he's off an All Star bid.
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He was third team all NBA and then second team all defense and
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I believe he can have a better season than that when he has a
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fully healthy offseason. So I'm excited for the rest of
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the season and I think he's starting to figure it out since
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this last Grizzlies game kind of carrying us in a win without
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Shay. And I think we really needed
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that as a vote of confidence and I think Chet was out for that
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one as well, so. Yeah, pretty much everybody was
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out yesterday. I'm going to carry off what
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you've been saying with the three-point shooting.
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Obviously he knows that's not a strength right now with his
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wrist even like the long mid range shots that were accustomed
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to him shooting have been coming up short as well.
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And he's kind of acknowledged it.
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I'll summarize a few quotes from today's practice.
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Shout out Clemente Almanza for getting these up on Twitter
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earlier. But he says pretty much it
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sucks. It's an annoying process.
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He's super frustrated, like, and he can't really get out of the
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like can't figure it out as fast as he wants because he said he's
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not on a bad team. Like he can't just Jack up 40
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shots per game is pretty much what he said.
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So it's something that he's just going to have to continue to
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figure out game by game. He also continued by saying like
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it's he with the team in general, they got a little
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comfortable with the, you know, winning ways.
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They're off the championship. They're dominating everybody, He
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said. They're going to get back into,
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you know, and that dog back mentality back and, you know,
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trying to swing this ship back around.
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They haven't been playing well recently, but obviously they're
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still number one seed in the Western Conference.
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And then Mark Dagnold commented again on J Dubs wrist injury,
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saying it's less than ideal. And like savier said, like he
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he's been such a great playmaker since coming back, but a shot
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hasn't been falling. So Mark pretty much just said
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like we got to focus on the things that he can do and give
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him some grace, like things that he's been doing.
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As he they're saying, he still doesn't have a full range of
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motion in his right wrist, which is quite an issue.
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And what he's been doing has been pretty solid for the team
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outside of the jump shooting. But as of right now, to compete
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for a championship this year, we need him to have a jump shot.
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He made some really big time threes in the play offs last
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year. He's our second best player
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obviously. If not, yeah UA2B with Chad we
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we need that back. Unless OKC might be forced to
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make a move. Yeah, yeah.
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I think one thing that sorry, I think one thing that a lot of
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the fans and the other teams in the league want to try to act
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like is is not a parent is we went on this rough stretch and
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and we started losing games here and there.
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And all of a sudden those talks about becoming one of the
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greatest regular scene records of all time started going away.
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And we talked about how we talked about how those are going
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away. But here's the reality of it.
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Mark calls it less than ideal. It is less than ideal because
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the injuries are what started this whole slope.
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Losing Hartenstein hurt us bad. You know, I mean, the Spurs gave
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us a good loss, but losing Hartenstein hurt us.
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And if we're a healthy team, that's when we are that team
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that can beat that regular season record.
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So all these fans and all these teams are acting like, well, OK,
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CS not a powerhouse anymore. You know, now, now that they've
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lost six of their last twelve games, they're in trouble now
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and anyone can take them. That is simply not true.
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We've been unhealthy and that's severely, severely affected us.
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We're fully healthy. This team is going to be one of
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the teams that challenges the greatest record of all time.
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And that's kind of the thing that I keep going back to is
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like Mark mentions, it's a circumstance that's less than
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ideal. The whole last month has been a
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circumstance that has been less than ideal.
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And that's what happens when you get injuries.
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So we've we've ourselves gotten angry and gotten freaked out.
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But like at the end of the day, the injuries are at the heart of
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this. It's what's hurt the team.
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It's what's made us play off. And when we're fully healthy,
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like when J Dub's wrist is working, when Hardenstein's
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back, when J Wills back, when everyone's healthy, we're going
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to be back on track in terms of a team that's going to look like
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the kind of team that would beat the record.
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So that's the thing that keeps going through my head is it's
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just all injury based, man. Like I have so much faith in J
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Dub but right now it's a learning curve.
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Yeah, I was, I was getting pretty frustrated, I guess with
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how he'd been performing. But there is a silver lining to
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it that if we can survive this year, hopefully run it back with
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him playing like this, that development that it sets us up
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for the year after is going to be insane once J Dub's fully
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back. I mean, Chet Holmgren has really
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stepped into the second option role.
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J Dub step back, but that gives him gives him a chance to work
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on other things in his game, like we said, assisting.
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And so he's going to be a much more well-rounded player once
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his jump shot comes back. And Chat is going to be just one
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of the better, well, easily the best third option in the league
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when we're fully healthy coming into next year's season.
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So, yeah, the silver lining is just to survive the season, I
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say, and then would be pretty set up for the year after.
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But it is pretty easy to get frustrated pretty quick when.
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Well, I guess he made the the expectation himself just by
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being so good at basketball that we're used to it.
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And yeah, it's it's a good thing to have high standards for a
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player like him. So we're not in a bad position
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at all, I wouldn't say, but we're just going to fight
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through it. Yeah, I mean, I'll carry off
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that as well. I I think OK C and OK C fans
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should be really grateful as J Dub's going through this
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process. He's still putting up numbers
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and playing effectively. I mean, last night in Memphis,
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him, AJ Mitchell and Kenneth Williams rallying the team from
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21 down, gets to win and he goes crazy in the fourth.
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He still could slash, get to the rim.
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He's still a good defender. Jump shot will come along
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hopefully. But I think OKC should be
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grateful for a guy named AJ Mitchell because I do think with
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AJ Mitchell's the way he's been performing, they are still
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absolutely in the championship hunt.
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I don't think it's passing on, oh, we're going to have to wait
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for Jade up to fully get back. Yeah, we do need them, but guys
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like AJ Mitchell stepping up has helped OKC regular season.
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I think he's going to be great in the playoffs.
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Obviously Jack said Chet Holmgren has been stepping up,
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Aaron Wiggins has looked very good in the starting minutes
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that he's been getting and obviously we haven't been
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healthy, but guys like Kenrich Williams stepping up 21 points
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in a game-winning three in Memphis last night.
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So I think as they continue through this season and JW gets
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a little more healthy and a little more comfortable with the
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risk, hopefully that is silver lining there.
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But I I think the better than what they were last year.
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They just were going through a bit of a slump recently.
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But as they prepare for playoffs, I think they're going
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to be a force. Yeah, in no way is this an
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insult to any of our bench players because we have
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incredible depth. But one of the things that
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stands out to me last night with that game is obviously J Dubs.
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There's a lot expected from him with last night, considering
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he's one of our big three, the only one that's playing.
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But AJ is the one that's out there to be running the offense
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and running the ball. And for Jada to pick up 10
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assists with essentially our bench unit, that really stands
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out to me. Like he's not running with
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starters outside of door. And you know, I mean, Wiggins
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has been starting, but he doesn't have either of his other
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two and Shay or Chet. And by the way, a lot of his
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assists come from Chet. Him and Chet.
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They are they are like connected, man.
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It's beautiful. But seeing Jada notch 10 assists
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with with this lineup against a team that I mean, Memphis isn't
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isn't good by any means, but like they they were playing a
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good game last night against us. You know, they were taking
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advantage of us missing players and for dub to get 10 assists
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with that lineup, it is really what stands out to me.
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But same with the free throws. So you get to the line 10 times.
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Like that's what happens when he's pushing the pace, when he's
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driving, when he's getting 8 of 10, like I'll take that for
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sure. And that's eight of his points
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come from the free throw line. And I'll gladly take that
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because that's what good players do is they slow down the pace,
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they get to the line and they force a foul.
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And that's something that you really have to do against
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Memphis as well. Jaron Jackson has had a history
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of of getting in foul trouble a lot.
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So taking out their one best player by getting to the free
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throw line the best you can. Like that's what we want out of
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him. And if, if 26 points and 10
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assists and five boards, 50% from the field, like I'll take
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all that. Like I don't, I don't need him
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to knock down his threes, But it's, it's like I, I just think
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there's so many people in Saturn and I talked about this when we
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were live the other night. There's just a lot of Thunder
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fans that are really on him right now and they're really
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upset with the way he's been playing.
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And same with same with Chad feeling upset with Chad as well.
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And it's like they're not playing at a bad level.
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We're just so Jack, you mentioned it.
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We're so accustomed to winning and.
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And the quote says that as well. The quote from Mark today.
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Like we're so accustomed to beating the crap out of our
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opponents that when we are human, and I know Jada had a
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comment about this as well, saying that we're human.
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When we're human. It's like the sky is falling.
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It's over. J Dub needs to go.
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Chad needs to go. And it's like, yeah, He's like J
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Dub is fine. Like it's going to take time for
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him to get really like fully back.
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But when he's fully back, I promise everyone it's it's going
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to be scary. And you can't listen to the fans
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who joined us on the championship run last season and
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are now getting angry at these guys.
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Like I think most, most Thunder fans have been through quite a
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bit of adversity to say with the team.
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So we can sit through AJ Dub injury and get him back to where
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he was. But some, some people are just
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pretty crazy on Twitter. And yeah, they obviously don't
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know Paul, but yeah, it's been hard not getting worked up about
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some of the some of the stuff I've seen on there.
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Yeah, I think an honest fan, not like the Twitter trolls or
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whatever. I think an honest fan has, you
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know, a little bit of a right to be, you know, a bit frustrated
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with the way OKC has been playing, with the way that JW
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came back. Maybe they might have rushed him
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back into it, but as they're saying now, like the only way he
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gets through it is with reps And I mean obviously he's been
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playing solid as of late, but I was going to pick up from Gabe
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while we finished this topic here.
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You mentioned the free throws. J Dub getting to the line is so
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crucial to this team finals and conference finals.
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Last year he was getting to the free throw line.
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He was in attack mode and that opened up his mid range jump
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shot as well. Just we need him to get to the
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line because outside of SGA, who averages about 7 free throws a
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game, this team is bottom tier and getting free throws and
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those are free points. You need free points in a game
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like that to slow the pace down as well.
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So J Dub needs to start getting to the line as much as he was in
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the playoffs last year, especially in the conference
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finals and the finals. And I think the last thing on J
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Dub that I have is it's going to have to, it's going to end up
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being all on Mark. Mark has to figure out where he
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wants to play them, what he wants to do.
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Obviously the jump shot is just not there and yeah, we could
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keep shooting them right now because it's a regular season.
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But when when playoffs come, Mark needs to know the rotation
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that he wants J Dub in, where he wants to be, what he wants to do
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on the court right now. I personally think it's
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Playmate. I think you have every reason to
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to say that. I agree completely.
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So moving on with that, let's get to some health news, which
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is some great stuff to talk about as OK C fans right now
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since as we just mentioned, literally and metaphorically, we
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have been crippled. So let's kind of get into that.
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But let's start off with the health news with some really
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awesome health news. And that is the fact that Nicola
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Tobich is done with his chemotherapy.
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He is his agent, I believe was the one that came out and said
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that he expects him to be playing some basketball this
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season. That is just awesome.
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What a story for him as well. I mean, Thunder fans have been
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with him through this all and just kind of a crazy thing to
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think about for a kid so young to come to the NBA and have to
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deal with this. And I'm just very, very grateful
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for the strength he's had. And I've heard that our
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franchise has done a phenomenal job of giving him closure and
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make him feel comfortable with the fact that we're not going to
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like give up on him. And it's not like I take the
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time. This is you're a human first.
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So awesome news. They're hearing stuff about
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topics and whatnot, but let's just talk about health in
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general. So let's kind of get into that
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savier. If you got some health updates
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or anything, let's let's hear it.
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Yeah, this is via Brendan Ribar on X.
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The only three players for the injury report for tomorrow's
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game against the Heat. It's Isaiah Hartenstein who's
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starting to ramp up. We saw that in practice today.
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Nikola Topich was at practice and server was at practice, but
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all of them are still in the injury report.
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The guys are returning for us is SGA, Chet, Cason and the big
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news here, Jay will, I feel like he's going to be huge for us.
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Him returning just helps the bench minutes for Chet, gives
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him a lot more rest and then also Hearten sign some rest as
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well when we need it. I think just that spot amount of
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rest of five to 10 minutes for each of those guys during the
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game, just to have them a little bit more fresh for fourth
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quarters just throughout the quarter because they're putting
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it, putting out as much effort and energy because we know our
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guards are used to not rebounding.
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And once you have to, you pretty much, you know, aren't used to
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it. And and the only other guy
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that's really picking up the rebounds is German Williams.
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So I feel like him being there and being an additional
15:52
rebounder, just a big body, throwing his body around, I
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think just helps in general. You need one of those guys
15:58
that's just knows how to get the wins.
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And he's similar to a guy like Kenrich who just comes out with
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a lot of energy, weather the game's going good for him.
16:06
Whether their shots are falling, that usually doesn't matter
16:08
because they're playing with a lot of energy and that's
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something that you need on your team, especially coming off the
16:13
bench. So I think he's just a really
16:16
important piece for us. And him being active on the
16:18
bench is different than when he's, you know, unhealthy.
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And I'm not saying, you know, he does anything differently, but
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you're just a little bit more engaged when you get a couple
16:27
minutes into the game. And I love that that he's back
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as well. Yeah, I'm happy that the team's
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getting finally, you know, fully healthy.
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I'm glad you brought up Jay Will first because Jack and I were
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actually talking about him earlier.
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We need a healthy Jay, Will. And I know he's been out with
16:44
like the hamstring, right? But I really think it's been the
16:46
shoulder that's been bothering him the whole year.
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His shooting has been his three-point shooting especially
16:51
has been down. If Jay Will can come back into
16:54
the lineup and start hitting threes at a 35% clip, let's just
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say that this team is exponentially better because Jay
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Will's a good shooter when he's on and he stretches the floor
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picking pops with SGA, picking pops with anybody and it just
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adds the three-point shooting. Now OKC has been struggling
17:11
immensely from the three-point line, so adding a guy like that
17:14
could be huge. Adding Hartenstein back will be
17:16
huge because he'll also run the offense opens up the floor for
17:18
three-point shooting and shot blocking as well.
17:22
And I'm glad we touched on Nicola Topitch.
17:24
It's extremely inspiring what he's been doing.
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You know, he finished chemotherapy.
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He's a kid who isn't from even the United States and he just
17:33
comes into the United States to play in the NBA.
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That's already hard enough. And then he obviously gets the
17:39
cancer. But he finished the
17:40
chemotherapy. He's been focusing on basketball
17:42
the whole time, which I don't even know how he's back in with
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the guys today at practice. It's extremely nice to see.
17:49
So shout out to Nicola Topich. I can't wait to see him play for
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the Oklahoma City Thunder. He should be getting some G
17:54
League reps and and quite soon, honestly.
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So we'll be seeing Nicola Topich for the first time since summer
18:01
league. And then yeah, just everyone
18:03
else getting help. The SGA coming back in the
18:06
lineup, chat coming back in the lineup, matching Hardenstein,
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Jay, will. This team's ready to roll.
18:11
And I think last night's when we touched on it in the live last
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night, the way that they won that game and the personnel they
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had on the floor who won that game.
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This team's going to be extra motivated, want to play for each
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other again, and they're going to get back on track here.
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Yeah. And I think that's.
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Yeah, You go, Jack, go. Ahead.
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No. You got it.
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Yeah, I think the biggest part about being fully healthy is
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also having this amount of time to keep experimenting, see what
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we have to do. Because obviously the last,
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what, 1213 games or so haven't been the best.
18:44
So we need to figure out this rotation, figure out minutes and
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all this kind of stuff, maybe even the starting lineup.
18:51
And I think being healthy now is a good chance to experiment and
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get back to it, especially come playoff time.
18:58
We want to have have it locked in and know what to go for
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because I think sometimes the lineups we put on the floor just
19:04
aren't it. And yeah, that's what I'm most
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excited for. Yeah, for sure.
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I want to get more into Jay Will as well.
19:11
Joe, you mentioned the three-point shooting and the
19:13
three seasons not counting this season, of course, he did not
19:15
play as much. And the three seasons this he's
19:17
been in the NBA, his rookie Yuri shot 41 percent from three.
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Next year was 37 and then the next year was 40.
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Like he is a very consistent he's a good three-point shooter.
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Like I'm not saying like you said, Joe, like 35% is probably
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that mark I'm I'm looking for that would really make a
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difference. I'm not asking him to come out
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and shoot 40% again. Now, if he did, that would be
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incredible. But that that's not the point.
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The point of having him back is something that actually savvier
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mentioned as well. And that's the rebounding that
19:42
it saves our guards. Our guards don't have to fight
19:44
for every rebound when we simply have another guy who's a 4A5 in
19:48
there fighting. Like that's one thing that we
19:50
saw with Jay Will, especially in the playoffs last year.
19:53
He is incredibly strong, like superhumanly strong at times the
19:57
way he was fighting up with Jokic.
19:58
But it's more than that. It's the way he boxes out, it's
20:00
the way he helps get boards. It's the way he stretches the
20:02
floor on offense. Like people don't understand how
20:05
Jay was one of those guys who if you're not a Thunder fan, you're
20:08
probably like who the hell is this guy other than just.
20:10
All the memes about him being Shay's hype guy, like people
20:13
just don't know who Jay will is and I don't think that they
20:15
understand the like he's one of those guys who really does play
20:18
a giant, giant factor on this team outside of just the stats.
20:22
You know, no, you're not going to look at his stats and be
20:24
like, dude, this guy's incredible.
20:25
This guy's the only average is like 6 points like at most.
20:27
So like you're not going to be blown away by his stats.
20:30
But when you're on this panel like we are, when you're a fan
20:32
of this team, you know the impact that Jay will make.
20:35
So getting him back it it couldn't have happened soon
20:38
enough. We needed this bad once him,
20:40
Hartnstein or Bolt back that rebound, those horrible rebound
20:44
losses are going to start going right down the drain.
20:46
And that's why we've lost so many games these past couple
20:49
weeks is because we just get killed on the rebounds.
20:53
The second chance points are in the 20s like that is that is
20:56
textbook how to lose a basketball game is you give up
20:59
offensive rebound. So as soon as Jay wills back,
21:01
we're going to see that start shrinking and then Hearts comes
21:04
back. That's going to go away and all
21:05
of a sudden, OK, CS back to where they were and fans are
21:08
going to be angry again. So we'll we'll see.
21:11
We'll see what NBA fans think about that.
21:15
All right, what are we swinging to SAP your SGA here?
21:22
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, you got some stats
21:25
out here for us, some advanced stuff about Shay.
21:27
I mean, we the reason we're talking about Shay here.
21:30
It kind of sounds ironic in OK C Thunder podcast talking about
21:32
Shay, but the NB AM VP talks have been all over the place,
21:37
all the injuries and whatnot, and Shay's been consistent as
21:40
anyone. So what do you got Sever?
21:43
Yeah, I think for before I get into the stop for SGAI think
21:48
just the, I think it's just been egregious for the past several
21:52
years in even when we had an MVP and Russ and KDI feel like all
21:57
our MVPS and even more so with SGA.
22:00
Like I feel like coverage gets worse and worse for the Thunder
22:03
as the years go on. We get more and more hate and I
22:06
feel like we are picking up a lot of fans, but I think as many
22:10
fans as we pick up, it's like double the amount of haters.
22:13
And I think it specifically impacts SGA now on the court
22:16
when it comes to how many free throws he gets.
22:20
When it comes to the actual narrative itself.
22:22
Like Jokic has been out and they just put out the recent NB AM
22:26
VP, like via the NBA reporter, and he's #2 on the list behind
22:34
Jokic still. And that makes no sense to me
22:37
when there's an injured player that's going to be out for
22:39
multiple weeks and he can still hold the spot just because he's,
22:43
you know, won it multiple times or whatever.
22:45
And I'm not trying to bag on Jokic like he's some, you know,
22:48
bad player or anything. I know he's an MVPA champion.
22:51
But in any other case, we would see that player drop down to two
22:55
or three. And that usually is the case,
22:58
but just because of the hate and because they know the reaction
23:02
it'll get to keep SGA at #2 and keep the narrative on Yokich, it
23:07
just helps push the agenda. And it's a weird, weird thing,
23:11
at least by that reporter, because it's not the whole NBA
23:13
as a whole, because they've actually picked up the coverage
23:15
on the Thunder, picked up the coverage on SGA, which I really
23:19
appreciate. And that hasn't been the case
23:21
for several years. And I guess the big point here
23:25
is, I don't know, I feel like it's just a the narrative is
23:29
starting to pile up on him, not, you know, on the court, off the
23:32
court. And that starts to wear you
23:35
down. No matter how many quotes he can
23:37
put out that it doesn't. But I think he he he himself
23:40
notices and gets frustrated during the games.
23:42
Like he keeps looking at the referees like you're not going
23:44
to give me that obvious foul. But just to mention some stats
23:49
here. He's leading in 30 point games.
23:52
I believe he's still probably leading in 40 point games.
23:54
He's still chasing that Wilt record.
23:58
Next game he should be up to 17 games.
24:01
He's getting close to the world record.
24:04
I don't really have that many more advanced stats prepared for
24:07
this. I mean, he was first in MVP
24:10
voting last year, 10th in DPOY last year.
24:14
Clutch Player of the year is the place where he's really
24:16
excelling most. Clutch points in the least
24:19
amount of minutes, pretty much a point per minute in the fourth
24:22
quarter and in the regular season.
24:25
Best in NBA history when it comes to points per minute.
24:28
I think there should be no debate when it comes to a two
24:31
way player, a guard at six, six. I've never seen anyone this good
24:37
ever really. And with my own two eyes at
24:40
least. And we've seen LeBron come into
24:43
the league and dominate and I think he is at that same stacker
24:46
to be honest, both ways. I've never seen it.
24:49
Maybe a guy like Dwyane Wade. And so when you look at the
24:53
point guard or the shooting guard category, I think he's
24:56
starting to enter like top five debates in that and soon he'll
24:59
be into the top 10 debates as well after the season if he can
25:03
win another MVP and the championship.
25:08
Also, his odds skyrocketed on January 2nd after the Yokich
25:11
injury and then they suddenly dropped down after this recent
25:15
week of him, you know, losing games.
25:18
I don't think him losing games, but him still being healthy and
25:21
he should be leading this award. I want one of you guys to chime
25:25
in. Help me out here and I'll get
25:27
some stats on. Yeah, I think, I think the odds
25:30
makers have it wrong, to be honest, because he's got
25:33
rocketed to the favorite and then Jokic came back up into the
25:35
favorite. I don't, you know, if Jokic
25:37
isn't going to have enough games played, which is a high
25:40
possibility. I think it right now, honestly,
25:43
I think it's neck and neck between Shay and Jaylen Brown.
25:45
If the Boston Celtics continue to win and Jaylen Brown
25:47
continues to play the way he's been playing because I mean,
25:51
yeah, SGA started off at a pace where they thought they were
25:55
going to break the regular season record, yeah, he's
25:57
continuing to dominate and be extremely efficient doing so.
26:01
But if you look over what Jaylen Brown's doing, picking up a team
26:03
where their star player, his his Co star Tatum went down for
26:07
possibly what past the All Star break, maybe even the whole
26:10
season, depending where they end up being.
26:14
I think it's between them two and I don't think it's any
26:16
anybody else between in that conversation besides MVPI.
26:20
Think this is a huge, huge statement here for SGA.
26:24
If he's able to get to the finals and win it again with J
26:26
Dub being hobbled all season long, you know, not being his
26:30
full self, not being able to shoot the ball from the
26:32
three-point line, that puts him right into a category that
26:37
people aren't going to want to talk about.
26:38
But for now, they can keep shitting on him doing whatever
26:41
they want, saying all the narratives, which Adam Silver
26:44
has already confirmed that he does read NBA Twitter and take
26:47
some narratives into his own hands.
26:49
That's why they're not calling many fouls from this year.
26:52
SGA should be just fine. I really don't think it bothers
26:55
him at all. I know it might, you know, get
26:57
to him a little bit during the games like Savier said.
27:02
But I think he's going to continue to just brush it off.
27:04
And I think he's going to bring him back to the Finals at some
27:06
point. Or yeah, close to it.
27:09
That last point about not caring is exactly what I wanted to talk
27:11
about is, I mean, I've said a lot, but this is Shay playing to
27:16
win games, not Shay playing to win the MVP.
27:19
And I know Jokic fans won't like it, but Jokic plays to win an
27:22
MVP. Like he goes out.
27:25
I mean, he doesn't do it as bad as someone like Luca, but fourth
27:27
quarter, those guys are going out trying to get rebounds and
27:30
assists, get the triple double. Shay just plays what he needs
27:33
to. He doesn't play the 4th.
27:34
He goes up the hoops, tries to win a game and that's that.
27:38
And the MVP just comes along with it.
27:40
He said that many times that all this stuff's just like a side
27:44
product of being part of a good team.
27:46
And yeah, that's the my favorite part about this whole thing is
27:51
it it wouldn't be a competition if this guy was like step
27:53
petting, playing the force, trying to like he'd be averaging
27:55
40 something points trying to he'd be #1 lock for MVP, he'd.
28:00
Be averaging 50 If he played for Brooklyn, like what Porter
28:03
Junior went over in Brooklyn, he'd be averaging 70 points per
28:06
game. Yeah, and I think that's just a
28:10
cool thing to remember, even if if he does lose the MVP race or
28:14
if Jokic just favored like we have big, big fish to fry.
28:18
And yeah, this is this is isn't our peak, the MVP so.
28:23
Right, absolutely. Yeah, that's a great point,
28:25
Jack. I, I think, I also think, you
28:28
know, we talk about him not caring as much and and that's
28:31
like we hope we want that from him.
28:32
But I think there is truth to it that the league is not exactly
28:36
like they, they were so over stimulated by the narrative that
28:40
he was a foul merchant, that he was baiting for free throws,
28:42
that it, it's very clear that they are not giving him calls.
28:45
Now. I mean, I'm not going to sit
28:46
here and say that the refs are rigging it against us.
28:48
That's not what I'm saying. But there are games where you
28:51
can just blatantly tell that they're not giving him calls
28:53
that otherwise other players are getting.
28:55
I mean, there's a player specifically in the NBA who I
28:58
don't have a problem with. No, no, I'm, I'm not going down
29:01
this route, but there's a player in the NBA who I don't have a
29:03
problem with and they're. OK.
29:05
Let me address this first. Jalen Bronson.
29:07
I don't have a problem with Bronson.
29:08
I like Bronson. I think he's a great scorer.
29:10
He gets some crazy calls. He gets some crazy and people
29:13
call him the Super, super ethical Hooper and he gets some
29:16
really crazy calls that Shay was getting and, and it was like,
29:19
OK, I mean, if you're going to call for the stars, call for the
29:21
stars, OK. But now suddenly Shay is not
29:23
getting them because we want to erase that narrative.
29:25
Well, like I think Savior mentioned earlier, he's
29:27
averaging 7 free throws a game. Do you know how many average and
29:30
you know how many free throws? Luca is averaging 12.
29:33
That's ridiculous. I mean, and if you want to talk
29:36
about like, he is jumping into every single pants he can, like
29:40
Shay, yeah, maybe once a game, Shay gets a guy in the air and
29:43
jumps into him, like, yeah, it happens.
29:45
Other than that, there have been so many videos recently on
29:48
social media of people, like, breaking down the quote, UN
29:51
quote foul merchants or foul baiting.
29:53
They're just fat. Like, they are fouls.
29:55
They are by the book. You can't like, whether he's
29:58
going up and getting. So like, if someone's in and got
30:00
their hand in the basket when he's going up, that's a foul.
30:03
Whether you like it or not, that is a foul.
30:05
Like he's taking advantage of the fact that you are playing
30:08
poor defense and touching his chest.
30:10
Like, I don't know what they want, but it it becomes a
30:14
problem when the refs start to just blatantly ignore that
30:16
because they want to fit this narrative that Shay doesn't get
30:20
free throws or that Shay gets too many free throws.
30:22
So now we need to call less. Like, it's it's clearly
30:24
happening. And it's happened a lot in NBA
30:26
history. Like this happened to LeBron in
30:28
some seasons too, where it's felt like they've not given him
30:30
a whistle sometimes because either they want to drive a
30:33
narrative or there've been players like that too.
30:34
And now it's just kind of it's all over the place.
30:37
Some players get the whistle, some don't.
30:38
And yeah, they're still going to argue that Shay gets the best
30:41
whistle in the NBA. Which is.
30:42
Yeah. It's a disgusting product.
30:45
Yeah. A player like Danny Avdia is
30:48
like, oh, he's an All Star, great player, talented.
30:51
He's like he's plays relatively similar to Shay and gets his
30:56
fails the same way. Like he leads the league and
30:57
drives and that is glorified from the fans.
31:00
But when Shay does it, no, don't even get me saw.
31:04
I'm not going to waste any energy talking about Luka Doncic
31:07
on this podcast, but you get the rap from that.
31:09
But yeah, it's the double standards is just crazy for all
31:13
the fans. I want to loop back in and
31:17
mention I don't think Jalen Brown's even close to SGA's
31:21
level. Like there shouldn't be a Jalen
31:25
Brown to SGA comparison for the difference in play.
31:29
I know the numbers look really nice.
31:31
I promise you SG on that team would be averaging like 45
31:34
points, 10 and 10 at the minimum and way higher efficiency in my
31:40
opinion. Like if he just had to do it all
31:42
and he could play full 35 minutes a game and just knockout
31:45
teams the way Jalen Brown's able to do, I think he could do it at
31:49
a way higher level than he's doing.
31:52
And also I don't think he's even had a better season than Luka
31:56
Doncic and he's lower than him. So the NBA, I feel like just
31:59
doesn't get the narratives right.
32:01
And that's why there's more podcasts and more people that
32:05
have opinions about it in recent times and even former players
32:09
getting into the debates because it just feels like they're never
32:12
on the right side or they're always late to debates, whatever
32:15
it is. I feel like, you know, 3/4 into
32:19
the season, they're going to be like, oh, SG is a unanimous MVP
32:22
because they're going to realize how bad the odds are of how well
32:26
he's playing and how the actual voters are actually going to
32:29
vote. And the way he's been playing
32:32
this season, he's like 99% on everything.
32:35
He has a 25% gap on the defense versus a guy like Yokich.
32:40
I would say the only thing that Yokich has over him really is
32:43
the rebounding as a 66 guard that like he's shooting 63% in
32:48
the paint. And I believe Yokich is shooting
32:51
70% in the paint. That shouldn't even be a close
32:54
debate when it comes to that. And I don't know, I feel like by
32:58
the end of the season, the voters are going to get it
32:59
right. It's just during the season,
33:02
it's always tough to see the narrative to be as close as it
33:05
as it is. With the amount of wins that SGA
33:08
has, it shouldn't be this close. It shouldn't be this close.
33:11
This is any other, any other player it would never be this
33:15
close. You're absolutely right.
33:16
And it's I'm glad you said, you know, at the end of the season
33:19
they're going to get it right. I thought it was extremely close
33:22
last year when it never was. And we stressed all last year
33:25
that it wasn't going to be close.
33:26
And obviously yesterday was voted as the MVP.
33:30
So all those people who couldn't wrap it around their head, like,
33:32
how is he the MVP? Well, he, he won the vote and
33:36
he's probably going to again. And I'm sure it's going to, you
33:40
know, 'cause some frustration throughout the league.
33:42
But, you know, when you're dealing with the best player in
33:45
the league by a lot, by a wide margin and the reigning MVP and
33:48
the reigning Finals MVP and the Finals champion and the Western
33:52
Conference Finals MVP, at some point you just got to say, oh,
33:55
yeah, he is that good. And then he's probably going to
33:57
win it again. Yeah, there's someone else
33:59
that's been really bothering me. That's a new narrative against
34:02
Shay, Which check your phone any day.
34:04
There's always going to be something new against him.
34:06
But there's this new narrative that he's like an average
34:10
defender, which is just blowing my mind.
34:12
Like I keep seeing people saying like, man, why?
34:15
Why is everybody arguing that Shay is some two way player?
34:18
Are are like is I feel like I'm being messed with, Like I feel
34:20
like it's a joke when I see it, but they're like they are dead
34:23
serious and they will post like they'll just cherry pick little
34:26
clips. They'll pull out like the one
34:28
time a game where Shay gets blown by and they're like he's
34:31
just not playing good defense. Like it's absurd.
34:34
Savor you had a you had a chart that you pulled up a while back
34:38
and it showed Shay was in like the 95th percentile in like
34:41
everything and he was the only player in the NBA that was in
34:44
it. Like if you truly think that
34:47
Shay Guild of Alexander is a average defender you do not know
34:51
about like you don't know basketball.
34:52
You truly don't like watch one game.
34:54
And that's the other thing I I always say if you get an
34:58
argument with someone about a Thunder player or with someone
35:00
about the Thunder, it it the whole argument is over.
35:03
When you look in the eyes and you say, have you watched a
35:05
Thunder game or are you just on your phone?
35:08
Every single time they will say, why would I watch a Thunder
35:11
game? Why are you arguing with me?
35:13
Like step back, go watch a game. And then if you can still make
35:17
an argument and like fight the moment in the game where you can
35:21
prove that, then I'll believe you.
35:23
If you sat down and watched a Thunder game, you'd learn a lot
35:25
of things. Shay is a purely like a pure
35:29
scorer, one of the best in the league.
35:30
Shay is an incredible defender. 95% of his calls are actual
35:34
fouls. And then you'll also notice, oh,
35:37
this guy drives a lot. It's almost like we've been
35:39
telling you that forever now that he drives all the time and
35:43
somehow doesn't get fouled at the rate that he should be or he
35:46
does get fouled. He doesn't get calls at the rate
35:47
he should be. So every time I get an argument
35:50
with someone about OKC and then you ask him, do you watch a
35:53
game? They will say no every single
35:55
time or they'll ask you, why would I do that?
35:57
So that's where it ultimately comes down to is like this
35:59
argument of Shay's not a good defender is insane.
36:04
However, you mentioned it, but top five guard and steals and
36:06
blocks for the last couple of seasons.
36:08
Like that's that's not just he's not just coincidentally doing
36:12
this. He's not getting lucky and and
36:14
poking the ball free or blocking players.
36:16
He is his his mind is great for defence, his IQ is incredible.
36:20
He's physical, he's tall. He's way stronger than anyone
36:23
ever really like people also seem to not think that he's a
36:26
strong player. He's an incredibly strong
36:28
player. So ultimately, like this, this
36:31
narrative that he's a bad two way player is is blowing my mind
36:34
every single time I hear it. And then they turn around and
36:37
they'll tell you that they have Luka Doncic over Shay and it's
36:39
like, OK, so. And you have no idea what you're
36:43
talking about. Yeah, just to add to this
36:46
beautiful rant by Gabe. Why have we transformed from
36:53
like when Shay foul baits or jumps into someone it's always
36:58
off a pump fake right? That's because when he pump
37:01
fakes the defender thinks he's shooting.
37:03
But if he if the defender didn't jump that's a bucket right?
37:06
I was trying to explain this to someone the other day.
37:09
If they don't jump it's a bucket.
37:11
What is Shay meant to do when they jump at him?
37:14
Like the KD won an overtime. Someone was trying to tell me
37:16
that wasn't a foul and it was a flop.
37:18
Pivot back pump fake. KD jumps get blocked, no try go
37:23
for the shot or punish the undisciplined defense like stay
37:26
on your feet. I know it's hard to guard Shay
37:28
obviously because no one can do it and they jump on everything
37:31
and swiping hands in. But don't get mad at him for
37:34
people playing lazy defense. Like he's just punishing
37:37
undisciplined defense. And as someone who loves hoops
37:41
and I love defense, that's a cool thing to see.
37:45
Like get a hand up, a light hand and maybe he'll miss it, but
37:49
don't foul him and they get mad at fouling him.
37:52
And the worst part about it too is like people just the the
37:57
arrogance and the and the the blind like opinions on it to
38:02
just ignore the fact that literally one of the greatest
38:05
players to ever touch a basketball and Michael Jordan
38:08
did this all the time. Jordan would get people a new
38:12
air all the time, but it doesn't count because it's Michael
38:15
Jordan and he was way cooler. So it doesn't count when he did
38:19
it, but Michael. Jordan we're we're meant to
38:21
like. Michael Jordan, we're not
38:22
allowed to like. Precisely, we can't like when
38:24
Shay does it, but Michael Jordan did it and it was cool back then
38:27
and like Allen Iverson did it all.
38:30
Like this is not new. Shay did not invent getting a
38:33
guy in the air and and eating the contact like this is a thing
38:36
that has been done. And then they try to like he's
38:38
just doing what Harden did back in 29.
38:40
No, Harden was intentionally throwing his body backwards into
38:45
players. And like, I will still give
38:47
Harden credit for that season. That was an incredible season, 1
38:49
of the greatest scoring seasons ever.
38:50
But to act like what Shay is doing is the same thing as what
38:53
Harden was doing. What players like Trey Young was
38:55
doing is crazy to me. Because it's like you said,
38:58
Jack, they do what they want is they want him to go up and get
39:01
blocked. They genuinely they're like,
39:03
yeah, he should he should have shot that.
39:05
No, he's not stupid. He's intelligent.
39:07
Why would he shoot that? That is a bad hey.
39:10
Exactly pump like I have the defender in a bad position, he
39:13
pass it so he doesn't get a foul.
39:15
Like. Or or like oh man, I got the guy
39:18
in the air, I better shoot it anyways.
39:20
What exactly? That makes sense.
39:22
Let me be an ethical Hooper. Yeah that's mind blowing to me.
39:25
So the end of this rant till I'll give.
39:28
I'll let Fatbeard throw some stats here, but to end this
39:31
rant, like whenever you guys, Thunder fans are listening to
39:35
arguments like this, just drop the comment of how many Thunder
39:38
games have you watched this year.
39:40
They will probably lie because they're going to hide behind
39:42
their phone and be like, I've watched them all, which that's a
39:44
bigger lie. But it 95% of the time they do
39:48
not watch games, they will go watch the televised ones and
39:51
they'll probably be like, we'll look at the Spurs game.
39:53
It's like, OK, now you're just cherry picking the losses, but
39:57
it's just it's the the narratives against Shay are
40:00
ridiculous. It's bad if Savier mentioned it,
40:03
like I think, or it was actually a post that we made Savier and
40:06
Jackie both mentioned it. Like if people keep ignoring
40:09
this, they're going to miss one of the greatest players of this
40:11
generation like they really are. And it's going to be one of
40:13
those guys who. I hope like 15 years from now,
40:15
20 years from now, people look back and like this younger
40:18
generation of basketball fans going to be like, this guy was
40:20
awesome. Like surely they like this guy.
40:22
And it's like, you have no idea, bro.
40:24
So stop here, throw out your stats here.
40:26
I'm going to I'm going to step off the soapbox for a little
40:29
bit. Yeah, I've got a ton to throw at
40:31
you guys. So first I think I put it in the
40:34
chat. Top five in guard steals, blocks
40:37
over the last five seasons, top one in drives over that time,
40:42
lowest turnover rate this year. And the crazy stats for this
40:45
season, he's pretty much in the 100th percentile in the league
40:49
in isolation scoring, 100th in finishing, 99 in two point
40:54
scoring, 95% in just scoring in general.
40:59
And just to throw this out there, versus Luka Doncic, he's
41:04
pretty much got a higher free throw rate, drive rate, shot
41:07
rate at the rim, 2 point percentage, 3 point percentage,
41:11
estimated field goal percentage, free throws and true shooting
41:15
and wins and wins more games. But only one of them is
41:19
considered the free throw merchant.
41:21
When we have these conversations.
41:23
I do want to mention, like I'm not saying Yokich is having a
41:26
bad season. He's having an all time season.
41:28
He's having a better season year over year, just like SGA has.
41:32
But it's just the fact that SGA is having a better year than he
41:35
is, like more wins on better efficiency.
41:38
It just shouldn't be a debate in that case.
41:41
The other thing that I do want to mention, this is going to be
41:44
a crazy stat here. He's also replicating years,
41:48
year over year the MJ had and if not doing it at better
41:52
efficiency. And that's something that people
41:55
should definitely applaud. He's been really consistent with
41:59
drawing fouls, but they have actually taken a huge dip, I
42:03
believe at the start of the year.
42:05
And that has a lot to do with some of the losses that we've
42:09
had. But I mean, he's ranking in the
42:12
highest true shooting when you look at volume plus efficiency
42:17
and AD field goal percentage for volume plus efficiency without
42:21
turnovers. I mean, he's second and third in
42:23
both of those categories. The only person higher than him
42:26
is Jokic in that. And that shows you a lot as a 66
42:31
guard. I have to keep reminding people
42:32
he shouldn't be in these categories.
42:36
You know, with the low turnover rate, with the high volume
42:38
inefficiency close to that. Like he's not just shooting
42:41
close to the basket, he's also shooting a lot of threes.
42:43
He's increased his three-point output.
42:46
So the fact that he's having this type of season, I don't
42:49
think we'll see another guard like this.
42:51
The stat just came back to my mind, the one that I wanted to
42:54
mention. He's on pace with Russell
42:57
Westbrook, who's the greatest guard scorer we've ever seen in
43:01
terms of just scoring stats. He's actually on pace with right
43:05
with Russell Westbrook to probably break his record and
43:08
he's doing it in a lot less time because Russ was great right off
43:11
the gate and he's only been doing this for five seasons.
43:14
So if the scoring output continues to increase, he can
43:17
actually surpass the Russ record that he just broke for most
43:21
points as a guard. And that'll put him into a whole
43:26
new stratosphere as well. But I think he's going to
43:28
breakthrough most of the stats by the time his career ends and
43:32
I think he's going to end up having way more fans than
43:35
Russell Westbrook and he's going to go down as a top ten player
43:38
no matter what anyone says. In my opinion.
43:40
I think me and Jack mentioned before the season has started
43:45
where there's actually a rank all time and we were putting him
43:47
close to between. I think Jack was closer to like
43:51
the 1514 range. I was a little bit closer to the
43:54
11:00 to 12:00. But I think Jack would agree
43:56
with me now if we redid it now after we've won the championship
43:59
and after we've seen the growth this season, there's no doubt
44:03
that he's a top ten player no matter what and he wins anymore
44:06
rings, anymore MVPS, he's getting it.
44:09
Get into that top five conversation and that's where
44:12
it's going to get real difficult for everyone, and I honestly
44:15
can't wait for that. Clip that.
44:17
By the way, my closing remarks will be just you don't win all
44:23
those accolades and awards and finals championship rings with
44:27
just being a free throw merchant.
44:28
I've never seen it done before. And I actually enjoy that they
44:31
keep continuing on the the narratives and stuff because
44:36
yeah, that puts him up with Jordan.
44:38
Jordan, the Jordan narrative. You couldn't touch Michael
44:40
Jordan, the LeBron hate early in the 20 tens when he joined
44:44
Miami. They're going to get all the
44:45
foul calls and all that. Well, they won championships.
44:49
I'll take the championships over the narratives all day and
44:53
that's it. I got nothing for, you know, the
44:55
delusional morons out there. Yeah, yeah.
44:59
I mean, I think that's probably a good place to wrap it up since
45:02
if we keep talking about Shay, this can go on for another 30
45:04
minutes. But yeah, it's it's just insane.
45:06
I mean, there, there's there's nothing.
45:09
The media also wants more than for everybody to believe that
45:12
he's just not as good as they say.
45:14
I mean, that's, that's 70% of the battle right there is every
45:17
media page out there is gonna post every time I've mentioned
45:21
this before, you'll see, you'll see Giannis drop 60 and they'll
45:24
post his points, rebounds to the 5th and he's blocked and then
45:27
Shay drops 60 and he'll post his points in his free throws and
45:30
that's it. Like meanwhile, Giannis probably
45:33
had more free throws with nothing.
45:35
He doesn't deserve them, but that's, that's just how it is.
45:38
You know, every media page, Basketball forever, Bleacher
45:41
Report, ESPN, like there's nothing that comes up quicker
45:45
than however many free throws Shea had in the game.
45:47
So the narrative isn't just fans who don't like Shea.
45:50
It's a full media narrative because they know it'll get
45:52
clicks and there's no stopping that, which goes back to a
45:55
Jackson earlier. It's really nice that Shea is
45:57
composed enough to not not let that bother him because if that
46:01
was me, it would be pissing me off I'd be I'd be getting real.
46:04
It's pissing me off and I'm not even on the team.
46:06
So, but yeah, I mean, it's definitely, definitely
46:11
interesting. We'll see how it goes as as the
46:12
injuries continue, we'll see if Yokich ends up missing that mark
46:15
and we'll we'll just go from there.
46:17
But before we do this, yeah. What's up, Jack?
46:21
Well, me and Joe go to the game tomorrow night so we can let you
46:23
know if this guy is a free throw merchant or if he's actually got
46:26
a basketball. So, but yeah, we're in OKC.
46:29
I'm pumped. We're going to be posting a ton
46:31
of content, maybe like a game day vlog kind of thing.
46:36
We're going to be interviewing people, everything.
46:38
So yeah, just keep an eye out. Lots of cool things coming in.
46:42
Yeah, if you see us, come say hi.
46:44
Absolutely, definitely take advantage of that.
46:46
These two guys definitely came a long way to be able to do this.
46:49
Both are really excited, but we're more so excited.
46:51
So you guys can come check it out and get you enjoying some
46:54
content with us. And until then, yeah, we'll
46:56
just, we'll just keep cheering on the Thunder and hoping these
46:59
injuries start fixing things like we mentioned.
47:01
And yeah, if anyone else has something they want to add
47:03
before we wrap it up, go ahead. I do.
47:05
Go on, Thunder up, baby, Let's go.