Latest / Vanguards of Healthcare by Bloomberg Intelligence / Ocular Therapeutix Cuts Blindness Toll

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Ocular Therapeutix Cuts Blindness Toll · Vanguards of Healthcare by Bloomberg Intelligence

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Bloomberg Intelligence's Vanguards of Healthcare podcast,
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  Speaker 1: where we speak with leaders at the forefront of change
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  Speaker 1: in the healthcare sector. I'm in Hunter van Kirk, Senior
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  Speaker 1: Biopharmaceuticals analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, the in house equity research
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  Speaker 1: division of Bloomberg. I'm very pleased to be welcoming today's guest,
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  Speaker 1: Praven Google, CEO of Ocular Therapeutics, Braven, thank you so
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  Speaker 1: much for being here.
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  Speaker 2: With us today, Ash, thank you so much for having
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  Speaker 2: me and thank you for the opportunity of chatting with you. So.
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  Speaker 1: Ocular Therapeutics has an injectible pipeline focused on tackling the
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  Speaker 1: leading causes of blindness, including age related macular degeneration and
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  Speaker 1: diabetic rhinoopathy. This is obviously a huge space. Almost everyone
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  Speaker 1: faces eye issues as the age and of course we're
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  Speaker 1: seeing rising rates of myopia globally. Braven, can you maybe
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  Speaker 1: start us out on the therapeutic level, walk us through
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  Speaker 1: macular degeneration as a disease and the market over the
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  Speaker 1: last forty years.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you again for the question. So, wet macular
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  Speaker 2: degeneration then that's when blood vessels grow and bleed is
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  Speaker 2: the leading cause of blindness in this country for folks
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  Speaker 2: that are over over fifty sixty years old. As recently
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  Speaker 2: as when I was in training, and certainly when I
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  Speaker 2: was in practice, maybe about thirty five years ago or so,
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  Speaker 2: we had no treatment whatsoever. Then came a drug call Locentus,
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  Speaker 2: and it was almost miraculous that we could actually inject
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  Speaker 2: a drug in the eye on a regular basis and
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  Speaker 2: be able to treat this disease. But fast forward to now.
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  Speaker 2: The tragedy of this is really that despite having a
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  Speaker 2: drug that works extraordinarily well, and now we have a
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  Speaker 2: Loucentus and Aleiah and the second version of each of
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  Speaker 2: the two, the tragedy here is that in this country,
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  Speaker 2: in the US, in the first year, forty percent of
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  Speaker 2: patients drop out. And think about that, almost half the
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  Speaker 2: patients drop out of treatment, and all of those patients
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  Speaker 2: end up going blind. And that's just a human tragedy,
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  Speaker 2: and that's that's a huge economic load to bear as well.
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  Speaker 2: And the second part of this also is that even
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  Speaker 2: in those patients who are able to come in on
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  Speaker 2: a regular basis and get treated, those patients. Of those patients,
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  Speaker 2: approximately seventy five eighty percent of them after about two
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  Speaker 2: to five years end up getting worse than baseline. So
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  Speaker 2: there are things that we need to do and there
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  Speaker 2: are things that we need to address. This really is
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  Speaker 2: what I think is a huge problem. And those are
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  Speaker 2: the two goals that we have f X Pasley, which
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  Speaker 2: is to improve the sustainability of treatment as well as
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  Speaker 2: improve the long term outcomes.
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  Speaker 1: That's fantastic, And so you've really walked us through how
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  Speaker 1: you differentiate yourself structurally, you know, specifically, let's dig into
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  Speaker 1: the technology. How do you improve on these competitors that
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  Speaker 1: you've spoken of, Lucentus and Alia.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we're not reinventing the wheel. We're actually making it
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  Speaker 2: a lot more efficient and better, I think. So we
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  Speaker 2: have a target that we know works called VEGF this
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  Speaker 2: is what lucentis, and ALEYAH and vibismo and high dose
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  Speaker 2: Alaya block, so we know that it's a de risked
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  Speaker 2: known target. What we also have is a drug called
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  Speaker 2: that is a tki at tirescene kines inhibit or call
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  Speaker 2: excidonyb that targets the same receptor, So again a d
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  Speaker 2: risk target. But as I talked about sustainability, we also
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  Speaker 2: have a matrix, a tunable hydrogel matrix where we can
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  Speaker 2: with that TKI. So together, what we think we have
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  Speaker 2: is a de risk drug placed in a matrix of
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  Speaker 2: sustained and predictable and tunable release.
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  Speaker 1: Amazing. See you've clearly laid out how you can change
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  Speaker 1: the AMD market. How about diabetic rhymeopathy? What do you
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  Speaker 1: think you can really? What will your impact be there?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, we're very excited about both diseases,
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  Speaker 2: of course, but diabetic retinopathy may be an even bigger
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  Speaker 2: unmet need. And let me describe that. So the population,
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  Speaker 2: of course is different. As I mentioned earlier on aged
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  Speaker 2: related marketer, generation usually occurs in people that are over
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  Speaker 2: fifty to fifty five. Thus, age related and diabetic retinopathy
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  Speaker 2: occurs in younger patients that are in the workforce, and frankly,
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  Speaker 2: they have no symptoms to begin with. So the patients
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  Speaker 2: that we're targeting with moderate to severe what we call
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  Speaker 2: non proliferative diabetic retinopathy, they may have a visual acutive twenty,
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  Speaker 2: but they've got a ticking time bomb. And what I
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  Speaker 2: mean by that is that they have a chance about
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  Speaker 2: a thirty to forty percent chance a year upon year
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  Speaker 2: of getting a blinding or vision threatening complication. That's a
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  Speaker 2: massive number, and that's year upon year, and these are
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  Speaker 2: young people that are in the workforce. They could be lawyers, doctors,
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  Speaker 2: truck drivers, reporters. And we also have a known target
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  Speaker 2: that works, and that's the same receptor ve Jeff. If
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  Speaker 2: you've ever injected a loocentus or eyel in such a patient,
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  Speaker 2: what you see within a matter of days is nearly miraculous,
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  Speaker 2: which is the blood vessels look better, the blood goes away,
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  Speaker 2: it looks like a brand new eye. But the problem
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  Speaker 2: is that in order to sustain that, these patients will
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  Speaker 2: have to come in every month or every other month,
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  Speaker 2: and if they don't, if then this visits, there's a
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  Speaker 2: possibility of a rebound effect of it getting even worse.
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  Speaker 2: These patients are never treated, I mean literally never treated.
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  Speaker 2: There's less than one percent of patients being treated despite
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  Speaker 2: this huge risk and despite having a known treatment. So
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  Speaker 2: what we propose is to go ahead and put in
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  Speaker 2: x pasley and then allow for this sustained suppression of veggif.
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  Speaker 2: Now we do have a study called Helios where we've
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  Speaker 2: done that, and the results that we've seen is absolutely spectacular.
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  Speaker 2: In our opinion, and by the way, we're all clinicians,
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  Speaker 2: myself included, so for us it really hits home. What
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  Speaker 2: we saw was that every single patient that had a
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  Speaker 2: single injection of ex Pactsley with diabetic retinopathy improved. Every
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  Speaker 2: single patient patients who did not had a complication rate
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  Speaker 2: in terms of having a blinding or a vision threatening
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  Speaker 2: complication of thirty to forty percent, well in line with
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  Speaker 2: what we expect, but with a single injection of ex
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  Speaker 2: Pasley after one year, that risk was reduced literally to zero,
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  Speaker 2: which is incredible, literally to zero. So that means that
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  Speaker 2: if this is borne out in larger trials and if
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  Speaker 2: this goes to market, one can sit with a patient
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  Speaker 2: and say, miss Jones, you have a risk of thirty
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  Speaker 2: to forty percent year upon year of a blinding complication,
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  Speaker 2: and if you come to see me but once a year,
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  Speaker 2: like you go to a dentist for teeth cleaning, I
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  Speaker 2: can reduce that risk literally to zero once a year.
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  Speaker 2: And that's sustainable, that's doable, and there are number of
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  Speaker 2: patients that will be impacted by that is absolutely enormous.
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  Speaker 1: Amazing, and so we've kind of skirted around it, but
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  Speaker 1: maybe that that brings us to kind of the more
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  Speaker 1: commercial side of things from the payer perspective, Why does
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  Speaker 1: this strug make sense? And walk us through why you
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  Speaker 1: don't think it will require step at.
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  Speaker 2: Its Yeah, So let's go with wet maket generation first
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  Speaker 2: and then talk about diabetic retinopathy. And I think both
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  Speaker 2: are really related. So if you think about what I
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  Speaker 2: just said earlier on that forty percent of patients in
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  Speaker 2: this country alone in the first year dropout, every one
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  Speaker 2: of those patients end up going blind. And if you've
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  Speaker 2: looked at pair boards, and I've been on a couple
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  Speaker 2: of pair boards, pairs are like actuarians. They classify diseases
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  Speaker 2: and what the cost of that disease is. And by
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  Speaker 2: far the most expensive disease in the world is blindness.
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  Speaker 2: It's not cancer, you know, it's not strokes, it's not
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  Speaker 2: heart attacks, it's blindness. And the reason for that is
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  Speaker 2: really quite simple. The reason for that is because the
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  Speaker 2: mortality doesn't change. The use of resources skyrockets, but the
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  Speaker 2: mortality doesn't change. In fact, in this country, every blind
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  Speaker 2: patient patient costs over sixty six thousand dollars a year.
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  Speaker 2: It's an enormous cost. Now, if we reduce that drop
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  Speaker 2: out rate by even ten percent with x Paxley, which
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll do and I'm sure will do even better.
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  Speaker 2: Now we're talking about a quarter million fewer patients in
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  Speaker 2: this country alone who will not go blind. The impact
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  Speaker 2: off that not just on a human basis, but on
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  Speaker 2: an economic basis, it's astronomical. So the payers love this
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  Speaker 2: because what we're doing provides not only an incredible resource
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  Speaker 2: and advantage to humanity, but also is a cost savings
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  Speaker 2: measure or a huge cost savings measure. So there's great
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  Speaker 2: deal of support from payers. We have a lot of
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  Speaker 2: payer boards and this is something that the payers we
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  Speaker 2: feel will really support. From the diabetic retinopathy side, the
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  Speaker 2: story is really very much similar. The cost for a
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  Speaker 2: patient once they lose vision, whether it be by diabetic
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  Speaker 2: manket or edema or attraction retinal detachment or vitrius hembrhage
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  Speaker 2: is enormous. And if you can go ahead and identify
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  Speaker 2: patients and treat them but once a year, as we said,
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  Speaker 2: and reduce that risk literally to who's zero. Again, it's
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  Speaker 2: not just a societal impact, but the economic impact of
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  Speaker 2: that is tremendous. So we believe that we'll garner an
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  Speaker 2: enormous amount of support, not just economically but also from
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  Speaker 2: a societal impact point of view.
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  Speaker 1: That's very interesting and kind of continuing with commerciality and
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  Speaker 1: of course approval is the most important thing. Tell us
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  Speaker 1: about your interactions with the FDA, and maybe can we
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  Speaker 1: dig in a little bit on how you think the
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  Speaker 1: FDA is changing and adapting to a new world, a
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  Speaker 1: new world with AI.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's quite interesting what the FDA has
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  Speaker 2: said from quite a long time ago is that if
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  Speaker 2: you meet certain criteria, that you will have the opportunity
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  Speaker 2: to get your drug to patients as quickly as possible.
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  Speaker 2: And by quickly as possible means one study, but it's
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  Speaker 2: not for everybody. You've got to meet certain evidentiary standards,
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  Speaker 2: and those evidentiary standards start from have a well controlled,
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  Speaker 2: well designed study that is properly masked. Now we have
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  Speaker 2: that because we've been validated and awarded a special protocol agreement,
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  Speaker 2: which is rare to get, but we've gotten that with
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  Speaker 2: our Soul one study, which is a Phase three study
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  Speaker 2: that has been completed. The results have been outstanding. The
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  Speaker 2: post study evidentiary standard is very clear. You have to
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  Speaker 2: have a p value of less than zero point zero
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  Speaker 2: zero one, and you have to have enough patients to
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  Speaker 2: satisfy the FDA's three hundred patient safety requirement. We do both.
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  Speaker 2: Our p value is less than zero point zero zero
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  Speaker 2: zero six, which really is quite spectacular, and we certainly
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  Speaker 2: can provide the FDA with more than three hundred patients
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  Speaker 2: from a safety standpoint. So we believe that we checked
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  Speaker 2: all the boxes. And we've always said that our goal
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  Speaker 2: is to file with sol one alone because we believe
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  Speaker 2: that this drug should be in the hands of physicians
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  Speaker 2: and the eyes of patients as quickly as possible.
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  Speaker 1: Amazing and maybe just your macro thoughts on the FDA
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  Speaker 1: and how they're looking at things and changing.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm a one trick pony, so all
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  Speaker 2: I know is ophalmology, and specifically, all I know is RATNA,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, the FDA from everything that I know,
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  Speaker 2: is kind of like Europe. You know, it's not just
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  Speaker 2: you know, one franchise as a whole bunch of them,
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  Speaker 2: and all of them may behave differently, and all of
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  Speaker 2: them are franchises within themselves. So again, I'm a one
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  Speaker 2: trick pony, and all I know is ophthalmology and I've
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  Speaker 2: worked with the Ophthalmology Division of the FDA four or
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  Speaker 2: thirty years. Really nothing has changed. Doctor Wiley Chambers, who
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  Speaker 2: was our director there has retired. Doctor William Boyd, who
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  Speaker 2: has been with him for over I think two decades
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  Speaker 2: two and a half decades, is now the director. Nobody
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  Speaker 2: else really has changed. The consistency is remarkable, the collaboration
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  Speaker 2: is remarkable. The support would get them from them is remarkable.
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  Speaker 2: So as far as we're concerned, we have a fantastic
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  Speaker 2: relationship with our FDA and their consistency and their support
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  Speaker 2: is something I'm extremely grateful for.
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  Speaker 1: That's wonderful to hear. And given the geopolitical situation in
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  Speaker 1: the world. Tell us about your manufacturing and your supply chain.
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  Speaker 1: Does this require cold shipping? Where where do these drugs
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  Speaker 1: flow through?
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  Speaker 2: Well, the great thing there is that it's all done
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  Speaker 2: in the US. In fact, it's all done in Bedford, Massachusetts.
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  Speaker 2: We have we have no issues with any import taxes
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  Speaker 2: or anything like that. What we're doing is we're scaling
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  Speaker 2: up for manufacturing both for wet macular generation as well
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  Speaker 2: as diabetic retinopathy. We're doing so by acquiring more hardware,
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  Speaker 2: if you will, buildings and so forth. There's a lot
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  Speaker 2: of automation that we put in play right now, and
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  Speaker 2: we believe that we'll be able to very confident that
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  Speaker 2: we'll be able to manufacture in Bedford, Massachusetts with the
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  Speaker 2: equality and the amount of of units that we will
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  Speaker 2: need to satisfy patients commercially, both for wet maket or
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  Speaker 2: generation as well as for diabetic retinopathy.
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  Speaker 1: And should you hopefully receive approval, how quickly do you
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  Speaker 1: think you can you can scale up manufacturing.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, that's being done right now. So at the time
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  Speaker 2: of approval, we'll be able to go right ahead and
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  Speaker 2: I hit the ground running. You know. The thing about
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  Speaker 2: this also is that this is important to say. We
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  Speaker 2: believe that once approved, this drug will be used immediately,
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  Speaker 2: and the reason for that is because there is no
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  Speaker 2: change to anything the physician has to do. There's no
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  Speaker 2: change to the workflow, there's not a single piece of
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  Speaker 2: new equipment to buy, there's no added overhead, there's no
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  Speaker 2: learning curve whatsoever. The experience is exactly the same. It's
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  Speaker 2: simply a better drug which will make the physician happier
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  Speaker 2: and most importantly, the patient happier.
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  Speaker 1: Fantastic, I think you're selling yourself short, calling yourself a
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  Speaker 1: one trick pony, but you have kept your pipeline tight.
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  Speaker 1: Tell us about your your focus on that and how
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  Speaker 1: that impacts your finances and partnerships and anything else on
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  Speaker 1: the corporate structure side.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we actually are one trick ponting. Yes, it's actually
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  Speaker 2: quite accurate because we decided to be a one trick pony.
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  Speaker 2: Also because we really don't know, we don't.
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  Speaker 1: We also don't know anything else other.
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  Speaker 2: Than the Retina. We keep on saying that we're a
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  Speaker 2: company for Retina, Buy Retina, you know. And this may
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  Speaker 2: sound arrogant, but I dare say that we have more
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  Speaker 2: Retina experience in our little company per capita than any
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  Speaker 2: other company and the planet. And it's really geared towards
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  Speaker 2: Retina and entirely Retina. It's all we know. When I
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  Speaker 2: came into this company, I hired who I thought were
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  Speaker 2: the best of the best of the best people anywhere
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  Speaker 2: in the planet for Retna. I also trim the pipeline
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  Speaker 2: for the company to have an identity in a company
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  Speaker 2: of this size, If you know, I've always felt that
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  Speaker 2: if somebody says in a small company like this that
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: we have many many shots on goal, it means that
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  Speaker 2: there's no shot on goal. I'd rather have one shot
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  Speaker 2: on goal and then and the goal will be wide open.
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  Speaker 2: And we feel that we have a fantastic chance of
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  Speaker 2: a single trial approval. We've got terrific results. We know
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  Speaker 2: Retina inside out and would like to remain a one
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  Speaker 2: trick pony because that's what we do really really well.
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  Speaker 2: Is Retina wonderful?
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  Speaker 1: You know, there's certainly been I can think of some
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  Speaker 1: Chrisper based gene editors that we're working on retinal degeneration
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  Speaker 1: programs that ultimately stumbled. Maybe could we analyze two different
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  Speaker 1: facets here, you know, how will your technology succeed where
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  Speaker 1: these others have failed? And also do you think this
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  Speaker 1: is a market that could be protected by or from
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: rather gene editing competition.
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  Speaker 2: So look, I think gene therapy is phenomenal and as
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  Speaker 2: in a broad scale, but I think it's really important
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: to understand what gene therapy is, at least in our field.
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  Speaker 2: There are two very very important silos that are in
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  Speaker 2: my mind, completely different. You know what you're talking about
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  Speaker 2: with gene editing and so forth, is gene therapy for
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  Speaker 2: inherit to rental disease is This is where a gene
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  Speaker 2: may be replaced, for instance, or deliberately mutated, etc. This
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  Speaker 2: is for inheriti rental diseases. These are usually rare diseases
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  Speaker 2: and for that gene therapy is phenomenal. The other part
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  Speaker 2: of the silo is gene therapy for chronic diseases, and
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  Speaker 2: this is completely different. This is where certain cells called
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  Speaker 2: the retinal pigment epithelial cells are infected and they are
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  Speaker 2: asked to work as a factory and just pump out
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  Speaker 2: protein and keep pumping out protein endlessly. That's a whole
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  Speaker 2: different set of criteria there. So it's really important to
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  Speaker 2: distinguish the two. I think that for inherit to rental diseases,
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  Speaker 2: gene therapy is fantastic. I think there's some major challenges
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  Speaker 2: still to be overcome for chronic retal diseases, makes sense.
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  Speaker 1: I'm looking down the pipeline. Where do you see the
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: company in ten years and what keeps you up at
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  Speaker 1: night on how you get there?
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  Speaker 2: So what we're building is a standalone company, and I
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  Speaker 2: want to say that very very clearly. What I didn't
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  Speaker 2: have previously in my previous company was was that I
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  Speaker 2: didn't have a known market because we're developing a product
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  Speaker 2: for something called geographic atrophy and there was no drug
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  Speaker 2: in the market at that time. Here we have a
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  Speaker 2: known market that we think is actually underestimated, and the
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  Speaker 2: market has been around for almost four decades, so it's
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  Speaker 2: a known market. The second thing that I have here
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  Speaker 2: is a commercial team. I didn't have that previously, at
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: least a full commercial team, and here there's a proven
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: commercial team that is selling a product already, something called
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: dextenza with the same hydrogel for the front of the eye.
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  Speaker 2: We've expanded on those things we've built. We do our
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  Speaker 2: own manufacturing, as I said earlier on, we've expanded on
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: that so everything really is a closed loop where we
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: have complete control over the entire company, which is really
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: nice to have. There's not a whole bunch of outsourcing,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: so we've really built a standalone company that's capable of
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  Speaker 2: marketing this product in the US and outside the US.
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  Speaker 2: We've recently hired David Robinson, who was the architect of
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: the of the most successful launch that we've had in
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  Speaker 2: Retina with Aleah. He was the architect of that. So
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  Speaker 2: we're ready to go. As I tell people we're also
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  Speaker 2: a public company. Like all other public companies were on
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: sale every single day as you know. However, our intention
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: is to build a standalone company, but continue to talk
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: with whoever wants to talk to us, and that's what
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: we're doing.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned x US, you know, commercial opportunities. How
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: how do you differentiate your your launch targets x US, Well.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: We're we are a fairly small company, as you know,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: and you know our our attention has to be limited
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: at this point primarily to the US, but not only
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: to the US. We're also in conversations with OUs regulators
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: and we've had fantastic conversations with them in many ways.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: What really attracts them is the fact that the use
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: of their resources will with physicians and so on and
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: so forth will go down tremendously with this product, and
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: the spread of treatment that can and that can be
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: garnered with a much wider net will will increase greatly.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: If you can, if you can think about a forty
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: percent dropout rate in the first sure in the US,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: that is many times higher in many countries outside the US.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: So the human impact, the economic impact of this potentially
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: will be even greater outside the US.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful. And what else do you think it's it's
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: important to leave our listeners with today.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I think what's really important is exactly what I said,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: and we laughed about it a little bit to saying
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: we're a one trick pony, but we're very, very focused
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: on retina. We may not know anything else, but we
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: know retina inside out. We have a de risk product
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: because we have a receptor that is known to work.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: We have filled in. We believe what are the biggest needs,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: which is the sustainability issue. The other part that we
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: haven't talked about, and maybe this is what I'll touch on,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: is the second part of our goal. We talked about
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the sustainability part. The second part of the goal is
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: improved long term outcomes. And what I said earlier on
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: was that even in patients who are able to come
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: in for an injection every month or every other month,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: and you know, those patients after two to five years
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: ultimately end up getting worse than baseline. And the reason
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: they get worse than baseline is because of the pulsatile
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: nature in which we inject. In other words, we give
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of drug and then the drug fades away.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: We give a whole bunch of drug, and the drug
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: fades away, whether it be every month or every other month.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: And because the back of the eye, the retina is
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: nerve tissue, it goes, it get thickens and thins and
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: thickens and thins, and it's akin to having multiple cushions.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: So what ends up happening is that the retina gets scarred,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: much like the brain would get scarred. And that's how
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: patients gradually lose vision and gradually but inevitably lose vision,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: even those that can come in. And what we believe
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: this drug will do, and there's ample evidence to show
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: that it should be doing this, is by not having
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: those pulsatile inhibitions, by having a constant inhibition that lasts
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: for a long time, we will reduce this thickening and
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: thinning and thickening and thinning, and we will reduce the
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: risk of having scarring fibrosis. And ultimately, not only will
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: this drug allow for better sustainability, but this drug will
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: allow for a better long term outcome as well.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: It's fantastic. Well, it was a pleasure speaking with you today.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time and sharing ocular
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: therapeutic story. I'm in Hunter van Kirk, and you've been
• 22:56
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• 23:00
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• 23:02
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