Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #380 From the Doctor's Desk

Transcript

#380 From the Doctor's Desk · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:02
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:06
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
0:09
Speaker 2: Now, the amount of screen time isn't that big deal.
0:11
Speaker 2: It's what you're doing, what's happening in the processes of
0:14
Speaker 2: your home, that matters most.
0:16
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
0:19
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:20
Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson, found of Happy Families
0:22
Speaker 2: dot Com. Toda you. I'm here with Kylie, mum to
0:24
Speaker 2: our six kids and the Happy Families podcast co host.
0:29
Speaker 2: Today we were hanging in there with you, Victoria. One
0:33
Speaker 2: more day to go until those restrictions start easing. So
0:36
Speaker 2: so pleased that things are looking up bit by bit
0:39
Speaker 2: for you school kids around New South Wales and Victoria
0:42
Speaker 2: preparing to head back. In fact, some in certain circumstances
0:46
Speaker 2: are already doing that.
0:47
Speaker 3: I'm breathing a sigh of relief for them. This has
0:49
Speaker 3: been such an.
0:50
Speaker 2: Ordeal, it really has, it really really has. We could
0:53
Speaker 2: talk about it for a long time. I think we've
0:55
Speaker 2: given COVID and the lockdowns and things a lot of
0:58
Speaker 2: time on the podcast. So today for the Doctor's Desk,
1:00
Speaker 2: we're going to go in a completely different direction and
1:02
Speaker 2: look at some non COVID related science that applies to mums, dads,
1:07
Speaker 2: parents and families. First cap off the rank Today in
1:11
Speaker 2: our three.
1:13
Speaker 3: We're looking at screen time and the effects on early
1:17
Speaker 3: adolescents mental health, and academic and social outcomes.
1:21
Speaker 2: Okay, So this is a research paper that appeared in
1:24
Speaker 2: what's called plus one. This is an open access peer
1:26
Speaker 2: review journal. And really really like this study because it
1:30
Speaker 2: highlights that we might be making too much noise about
1:32
Speaker 2: worrying about how bad screen time is. But maybe and
1:35
Speaker 2: maybe not. This has been one of those conversations that
1:38
Speaker 2: you and I have been having for a long time
1:41
Speaker 2: now on the podcast, and I've been researching it and
1:44
Speaker 2: watching the data really closely, and this kind of this study,
1:47
Speaker 2: I think highlights why it's such a controversial, provocative, and
1:51
Speaker 2: confusing topic. In a nutshell, a little over, sorry, a
1:55
Speaker 2: little under, twelve thousand United States kids aged nine to
1:59
Speaker 2: ten participated in a study. The researchers were looking at
2:03
Speaker 2: how much screen time the kids were getting and their
2:07
Speaker 2: mental health. They looked also at whether they had any
2:10
Speaker 2: behavior or problems. They considered academic performance, how were the
2:13
Speaker 2: kids going at school, as well as sleep habits, peer relationships,
2:17
Speaker 2: did a whole lot of analysis. Oh, they also looked
2:19
Speaker 2: at the race and ethnicity of the kids and this
2:21
Speaker 2: socioeconomic status of the families. And here's what they found.
2:25
Speaker 2: Screen time does moderately correlate with worse mental health. That is,
2:32
Speaker 2: as screen time goes up, so too do mental health issues. Modestly.
2:38
Speaker 2: It also showed that there's a modest correlation between screen
2:40
Speaker 2: time and behavior problems as well as poor as school outcomes,
2:45
Speaker 2: worse sleep, But screen times associated with better relationships with peers.
2:51
Speaker 2: And already you look at that and you're like, no, wonder,
2:53
Speaker 2: this is confusing, No wonder people are going well? Is
2:55
Speaker 2: screen time good? Are bad? And as you know, we've
2:57
Speaker 2: talked abnorising about how it's not necessar proably about how
3:00
Speaker 2: much screen time you're having, but what kind of screen
3:03
Speaker 2: time you're having. Are you doing things productively? Are you
3:06
Speaker 2: connecting and creating, or are you consuming.
3:09
Speaker 3: We've also had conversations though around the fact that our
3:13
Speaker 3: children's outcomes will be better if they're in strong friendship groups.
3:17
Speaker 3: They've got strong relationships regardless of what ourse is going on,
3:22
Speaker 3: they are going to carry them through those challenging times.
3:25
Speaker 3: So this is a little bit of a confusing one.
3:29
Speaker 2: Well, let's add a little bit more confusion to it.
3:31
Speaker 2: What the researchers did is they considered the race and
3:34
Speaker 2: ethnicity of the family that didn't have any relationship whatsoever
3:36
Speaker 2: to those outcomes. But you know what did the socio
3:39
Speaker 2: economic status of the family. So basically, socioeconomic status was
3:44
Speaker 2: more strongly associated with each of those outcome measures than
3:48
Speaker 2: screen time was. Now, we don't know what causes what,
3:52
Speaker 2: and the small effects sizes really do suggest that screen
3:57
Speaker 2: time in and of itself is probably unlikely to be
3:59
Speaker 2: directly harm full to kids at the age of nine
4:01
Speaker 2: or ten. And I think this is really fascinating because
4:04
Speaker 2: what it's really highlighting is what's going on in the
4:06
Speaker 2: walls of your home and specifically what's happening financially for
4:10
Speaker 2: your family. It seems like the families that have more
4:12
Speaker 2: resources have kids who do better at school, have fewer
4:14
Speaker 2: behavior problems, sleep better, have more friends, and have better
4:18
Speaker 2: at mental health, which is kind of a really bad
4:20
Speaker 2: news story for people who are struggling financially. But what
4:23
Speaker 2: it does do is it lightens the burden, lightens the
4:26
Speaker 2: stress that so many parents are carrying around screens. And
4:29
Speaker 2: this is consistent with what I've been saying on the
4:32
Speaker 2: podcast and on my Facebook page for a couple of
4:35
Speaker 2: years now. The amount of screen time isn't that big deal.
4:38
Speaker 2: It's what you're doing, what's happening in the processes of
4:41
Speaker 2: your home that matters most well.
4:43
Speaker 3: And I think if you're actually asking the question, then
4:46
Speaker 3: you're aware of what's going on in your home and
4:49
Speaker 3: how it's impacting your home and your children's lives. And
4:53
Speaker 3: so I think that the fact that you're aware of
4:55
Speaker 3: it means that you're going to be more likely to
4:57
Speaker 3: put things in place to make sure that it doesn't
5:01
Speaker 3: become a big problem, as opposed to having your child
5:03
Speaker 3: stuck in a room for five hours at a time
5:06
Speaker 3: without any interaction.
5:07
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you said that, And I think this
5:09
Speaker 2: is one of the really critical things here. We're constantly
5:11
Speaker 2: talking about screen time and the socio economic status comes
5:14
Speaker 2: into it, But listening to a podcast like this gives
5:17
Speaker 2: you the intention and the awareness so that the amount
5:20
Speaker 2: of income that your family's got can become irrelevant. It
5:23
Speaker 2: means that you now know this, and therefore you can
5:26
Speaker 2: take action to encourage the kids to use their screens
5:29
Speaker 2: in appropriate ways. For a moderate amount of time with
5:33
Speaker 2: no stress or no pressure, and so long as they're
5:35
Speaker 2: living a full and whole childhood spending time with their friends,
5:39
Speaker 2: they're going to be just fine. They're really going to
5:42
Speaker 2: be just fine. Let's have a look at the second study.
5:44
Speaker 2: This one probably doesn't need a whole lot of time,
5:46
Speaker 2: and it's just worth a quick mention because I really
5:48
Speaker 2: think that it's useful and important. This one comes from
5:52
Speaker 2: the journal Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics, and it really just
5:56
Speaker 2: looks at physical activity as a predictor and an outcome
5:59
Speaker 2: of kids who have got depression and anxiety or what
6:01
Speaker 2: we call emotional distress over time.
6:03
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting this kind of actually flow into each other.
6:06
Speaker 3: They are like heavily involved in screens and they're less
6:09
Speaker 3: likely to be out playing and using their bodies. But
6:12
Speaker 3: if we are aware of the need for physical activity
6:15
Speaker 3: with our children, then they're less likely to be on screens.
6:17
Speaker 2: I hadn't even thought of that until you mentioned it.
6:19
Speaker 2: We call that the displacement hypothesis, and the idea basically
6:21
Speaker 2: is that screens stop kids from spending time with friends,
6:24
Speaker 2: or doing exercise, or being outside in nature and all
6:27
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So you're exactly right. In a nutshell.
6:29
Speaker 2: This one's out of Canada. A whole bunch of kids,
6:32
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred of them or thereabouts, were involved in this study.
6:35
Speaker 2: Whether they were followed for four years from the age
6:38
Speaker 2: of six through to the age of ten, and the
6:41
Speaker 2: researchers looked at children who were playing sport at age
6:46
Speaker 2: five as a predictor of whether or not they would
6:50
Speaker 2: be depressed or anxious as they got older. And what
6:53
Speaker 2: they basically found was that the kids who were participating
6:56
Speaker 2: in sport at age five were less like and have depression,
7:00
Speaker 2: less likely to have anxiety as they get a full
7:03
Speaker 2: stop end of story, The study really supports getting your
7:06
Speaker 2: kids involved in physical activity and maybe even some organized sport.
7:11
Speaker 3: Okay, so this is where this one gets a little
7:13
Speaker 3: bit tricky. Though. Last week we answered Amy and Sean's
7:17
Speaker 3: question about when is too early to start extracurricula and
7:21
Speaker 3: our comments delay, delay, delay.
7:25
Speaker 2: That's right, Yes, how do we rat this? You put
7:29
Speaker 2: me on the spot? Okay, so let's think this through.
7:31
Speaker 2: One of the main reasons that we argue for delaying
7:34
Speaker 2: children's involvement in extracurricular activities is because they need to
7:37
Speaker 2: have unstructured time where they can explore the world and
7:40
Speaker 2: be involved in free play and spending time with friends
7:43
Speaker 2: and that kind of thing. We've also identified that there's
7:45
Speaker 2: less of a village and parents are less inclined to
7:48
Speaker 2: let the kids, especially age between six and ten, to
7:51
Speaker 2: just toddle off down to the park or so. Where
7:54
Speaker 2: we are, we're about five or six hundred meters away
7:56
Speaker 2: from some bush land. There's some mountain bike tracks and
7:58
Speaker 2: some nice rails through the bush about five six hundred
8:02
Speaker 2: meters from our home. But I can't imagine you saying
8:05
Speaker 2: to our seven year old daughter, Hey, why don't you
8:08
Speaker 2: go for a bushwalk on your own this afternoon? Why
8:10
Speaker 2: don't you just walk the six hundred meters down there,
8:11
Speaker 2: it's almost a kilometer and then go for a walk
8:13
Speaker 2: through the bush. We're not going to do that, right, no, okay,
8:17
Speaker 2: just wanted to confirm. So what getting your children involved
8:21
Speaker 2: in these activities does is it gives them the social
8:25
Speaker 2: opportunities that they may not get because parents are busy,
8:30
Speaker 2: two parents working, unavailable to take the kids for those
8:33
Speaker 2: bushwalks or down to the park like perhaps they might
8:35
Speaker 2: have back in our day, back in the seventies, back
8:37
Speaker 2: in the eighties, back in the olden days, and so
8:40
Speaker 2: by having them involved in something, it's giving them this
8:44
Speaker 2: protective measure against ill health mental ill health.
8:49
Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to go down a totally different road.
8:52
Speaker 3: I don't think we need organized destructured sports for this
8:55
Speaker 3: to have a positive impact in our children's lives. I
8:58
Speaker 3: think we need to build the village. It's my big word,
9:01
Speaker 3: but build the village. One of the best things about
9:04
Speaker 3: our weekends is we've got a couple of neighbors who
9:06
Speaker 3: live next door on either side of us, and our
9:09
Speaker 3: seven year old spends the day with them. They're all boys.
9:12
Speaker 3: She doesn't even have a girl to play with, and
9:13
Speaker 3: she absolutely loves it. And I just love that they're
9:16
Speaker 3: climbing trees and they're The other day I caught them
9:20
Speaker 3: in the driveway. We had a palm tree that died
9:23
Speaker 3: and it was hollowed out, it was pretty rodden, and
9:25
Speaker 3: the three of them, a three year old, a five
9:27
Speaker 3: year old and a seven year old are dragging this
9:30
Speaker 3: tree stumped down to the trailer so that they could
9:32
Speaker 3: put it in the trailer for the dum I just
9:35
Speaker 3: loved it. It is they're working together. They've worked out
9:38
Speaker 3: what they need to do and how far it's going
9:40
Speaker 3: to take them, you know, to get that thing to
9:42
Speaker 3: where it needed to go. I just I love it.
9:43
Speaker 2: And it occupied them for thirty minutes to totally to
9:46
Speaker 2: get that tree trunk down there.
9:48
Speaker 3: And the other neighbors she's got a mulberry tree that
9:51
Speaker 3: kind of hangs over our side of the fence, and
9:53
Speaker 3: obviously we've spoken with her and she's fine with the
9:55
Speaker 3: kids devouring whatever they can reach. So they're climbing up
9:58
Speaker 3: the rock wall, holding down limbs for each other so
10:01
Speaker 3: that they can grab the berries. It's those kinds of
10:03
Speaker 3: experiences that help our children feel better connected with their environment,
10:08
Speaker 3: so it's worth highlighting.
10:09
Speaker 2: In the Canadian study, they're looking at organized sport children's
10:13
Speaker 2: participation in organized sport as a proxy for physical activity
10:16
Speaker 2: because it's much easier to measure and your kids playing
10:18
Speaker 2: a sport rather than how much physical activity do your
10:21
Speaker 2: kids get each day. What the real point of this
10:24
Speaker 2: is is pretty simple. Your children are going to be protected,
10:28
Speaker 2: not not guaranteed to be inoculated, but they're going to
10:30
Speaker 2: be protected from depression and anxiety in those early childhood
10:34
Speaker 2: years from six to ten. If they've got high levels
10:38
Speaker 2: of social involvement. And if they've got high levels of
10:40
Speaker 2: physical activity, they don't have to be playing a sport.
10:42
Speaker 2: They don't have to be costing you money, they don't
10:44
Speaker 2: have to be at the soccer fields at six fifteen
10:47
Speaker 2: or seven fifteen on Saturday morning. It's just about getting
10:50
Speaker 2: them being active. And like you said, if you can
10:52
Speaker 2: do it in the neighborhood, it's going to be just
10:53
Speaker 2: as good.
10:54
Speaker 3: Up next, we're going to share the last study which
10:57
Speaker 3: did my head in because there was too many big words.
11:00
Speaker 3: We'll talk about that one after the rain.
11:02
Speaker 2: There's a teas. Hey, listen up, we're going to give
11:03
Speaker 2: you a headache in just a sec.
11:05
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcasts.
11:08
Speaker 4: Are Screens Creating Tension at home tweens, teens and Screens
11:12
Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.
11:17
Speaker 4: Bye today at Happy families dot com, dot au slash shop.
11:21
Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
11:24
Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants to answers now. And I
11:25
Speaker 3: don't know how long it's going to take for us
11:27
Speaker 3: to get answers out of this one, because there were
11:28
Speaker 3: lots of lots of big words.
11:30
Speaker 2: This is one of my favorite studies and I'm so
11:32
Speaker 2: excited that we can talk about it. Brand new study
11:34
Speaker 2: that's come out from the Society for Research and Child Development.
11:38
Speaker 2: It's a monograph, which basically means that it's quite a
11:40
Speaker 2: long essay that talks about something called perceptual access, reasoning,
11:43
Speaker 2: and developing a representational theory of mind.
11:45
Speaker 3: Just remember it's for the time for parent Okay.
11:47
Speaker 2: So I'm going to break this down really simply. Whenever
11:52
Speaker 2: I do a seminar about little people and their big feelings,
11:56
Speaker 2: I talk about this thing called theory of mind. Have
11:59
Speaker 2: you heard me talk about theory of mind before?
12:00
Speaker 3: Yeah?
12:01
Speaker 2: Okay, can you explain it?
12:02
Speaker 3: No? Right, okay.
12:04
Speaker 2: So theory of mine basically is my ability to understand
12:07
Speaker 2: that you you're a psychological being, and that you have
12:12
Speaker 2: mental states that may or may not be consistent with
12:15
Speaker 2: what is true, and that you have mental states that
12:17
Speaker 2: may or may not be consistent with what my mental state.
12:19
Speaker 3: Is one five. So how am I supposed to know that?
12:22
Speaker 2: Well, you're not five right.
12:23
Speaker 3: Now, but I that's what you're talking about.
12:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay. So the research basically shows that kids
12:27
Speaker 2: have this thing called theory of mine developed from somewhere
12:30
Speaker 2: around the age of four and a half to five
12:31
Speaker 2: and a half. And the way that we know that
12:33
Speaker 2: is because of what's called a false belief task. So
12:35
Speaker 2: a false belief task walks works like this. Let's say
12:38
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here with my soda Stream in my hand.
12:40
Speaker 2: I've got my nice fizzy drink, by the way, that
12:42
Speaker 2: was not sponsored, but anyone who's been following us for
12:44
Speaker 2: a while knows that there's been this running gag now
12:46
Speaker 2: about soda stream for a while. So I've got my
12:48
Speaker 2: soda Stream bottle in my hand, I'm having a sip
12:50
Speaker 2: of my carbonated water, and I'm feeling very good while
12:53
Speaker 2: you and I sit on the front porch and have
12:54
Speaker 2: a conversation. When my phone rings and I say, oh,
12:58
Speaker 2: I just need to grab this call. I'm going to
13:00
Speaker 2: throw my soda Stream back into the fridge so it
13:03
Speaker 2: stays cold. I'll be back with you in five minutes.
13:05
Speaker 2: So I answer the call, I pop my soda Stream
13:08
Speaker 2: into the fridge, and then I go for a walk
13:10
Speaker 2: through the backyard while I'm having this long detailed conversation
13:12
Speaker 2: with somebody who needed my help. While I'm out in
13:15
Speaker 2: the backyard, though you decide to be a bit of
13:18
Speaker 2: a prankster, you go to the fridge, you pull my
13:20
Speaker 2: soda stream out of the fridge, and you go and
13:22
Speaker 2: hide it in the pantry. And when I finish my
13:25
Speaker 2: phone call, I come into the kitchen to grab my
13:27
Speaker 2: soda stream. And where am I going to look for
13:29
Speaker 2: my drink bottle?
13:30
Speaker 3: In the fridge?
13:31
Speaker 2: That's right, I'm going to look at the fridge. Why
13:32
Speaker 2: will I look there?
13:33
Speaker 3: Because that's where you put it?
13:34
Speaker 2: And how do you know that? That's why I would
13:36
Speaker 2: be looking there when you know that it's somewhere else.
13:39
Speaker 2: What's going on in my mind?
13:40
Speaker 3: Well, that's where you last had it, Okay.
13:42
Speaker 2: So in my mind, that's where it should be because
13:44
Speaker 2: that's where I left it. Correct, right, Great, Now, if
13:48
Speaker 2: you ask a child who's older than a round about
13:50
Speaker 2: five to six years of age, they're going to give
13:53
Speaker 2: that answer. But if you ask a child who is
13:55
Speaker 2: younger than five to six years of age, they're actually
13:58
Speaker 2: going to say that I'm going to look.
14:00
Speaker 3: In the pantry. Why Because it's where they put.
14:03
Speaker 2: It, and they know that it's there. They know that
14:06
Speaker 2: you put it there, and because they know that it's there,
14:08
Speaker 2: they also think that I know that it's there because
14:10
Speaker 2: my brain and theirs are the same. In their mind,
14:13
Speaker 2: they don't get that adults' brains are different to theirs.
14:16
Speaker 2: And this is why we have these big temper tantrums
14:18
Speaker 2: with little kids, because they haven't developed a theory of mind.
14:20
Speaker 2: Well it's partly at least. They don't understand that people
14:23
Speaker 2: see things differently. They can't comprehend that their mum or
14:28
Speaker 2: their dad is saying no when everything in their brain
14:31
Speaker 2: is saying yes, yes, yes, And how can you say that.
14:33
Speaker 2: They're not just upset that we're saying no, they're upset
14:35
Speaker 2: that this doesn't make sense because their brain and our
14:38
Speaker 2: brain is supposed to be wired together. They're supposed to
14:39
Speaker 2: be the same thing. So it's very confusing for them
14:42
Speaker 2: as well as upsetting because they're being told no, that's
14:45
Speaker 2: what theory of mind is. Researchers have always said, like
14:47
Speaker 2: I said, somewhere around five ish is where theory of
14:50
Speaker 2: mind kicks in. But these this new research suggests that
14:55
Speaker 2: we've got it wrong, that the false belief task is
14:58
Speaker 2: just one way of measuring theory of mind. Children can
15:00
Speaker 2: actually guess and get it right, but they don't really
15:04
Speaker 2: know how or why, and that it may be that
15:08
Speaker 2: children need to be a little bit older, somewhere around
15:11
Speaker 2: about seven, maybe even eight, before they really start to
15:16
Speaker 2: understand what theory of mind is, before they really start
15:19
Speaker 2: to get that you want something that's different to me
15:23
Speaker 2: and not blow up about it.
15:25
Speaker 3: Well, that was what I was getting to you as
15:26
Speaker 3: a five year old, I don't see that. I don't
15:29
Speaker 3: see that capacity yet.
15:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. And this kind of ties in,
15:34
Speaker 2: I think with other research that shows that children really
15:36
Speaker 2: learn how to regulate their emotions much better by and
15:39
Speaker 2: their behaviors around about the age of eight or nine.
15:41
Speaker 3: So for me, this just highlights how much pressure we're
15:44
Speaker 3: putting on our children to be school ready and to
15:47
Speaker 3: be able to do things that are just beyond their
15:51
Speaker 3: capacities too early. The pressure that they have to understand
15:56
Speaker 3: all of this as a five year old.
15:58
Speaker 2: There's so many factors, how much, so much expectation. We
16:01
Speaker 2: think that because they're walking and talking, they should be
16:04
Speaker 2: able to do all this stuff, and they can't. And
16:05
Speaker 2: so the main reason that I really wanted to share
16:07
Speaker 2: this particular piece of research is because it really it
16:12
Speaker 2: really does cause us to pause and ask, are we
16:14
Speaker 2: asking too much of our little kids in terms of
16:16
Speaker 2: their capacity to understand what's going on, to regulate their behaviors,
16:20
Speaker 2: to regulate their emotions, to hold it all together in
16:23
Speaker 2: the ways that we're asking them to, and to understand
16:26
Speaker 2: things emotionally and cognitively before they're ready. So what we
16:31
Speaker 2: really need to do is just take the pressure off
16:33
Speaker 2: and thank you, yeah exactly. We hope that you've enjoyed
16:36
Speaker 2: the Doctor's Desk today. The links to all of the
16:37
Speaker 2: studies will be shared in the show notes. If you
16:41
Speaker 2: love the podcast, please tell a friend, Please share an
16:43
Speaker 2: episode with a friend, or please jump onto Apple Podcasts
16:47
Speaker 2: and leave your ratings and reviews so the pip can
16:48
Speaker 2: find out about the podcast and make their family happier.
16:51
Speaker 2: As always, we thank Justin rule On, our producer, and
16:53
Speaker 2: Craig brus, our executive producer, for helping us to make
16:55
Speaker 2: the podcast sound the way that it does. And if
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Speaker 2: you'd like more refo about how to make your family happier,
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Speaker 2: please visit us at Happy families dot com. Dorem