Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Slap Shot with Mike Loftus

Transcript

Slap Shot with Mike Loftus · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zephim fast start
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Happy Birthday, Jamie.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Boom, slam, punch.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Slap, inside shot.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Divorce, so many themes.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: Homophobia, so many themes.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Pittsburgh, mm hmm. I was really excited that this movie
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: took place. I was like, I was like, where is
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Kaitlyn going to connect with this movie. There's got to
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: be somewhere. I was like, Pennsylvania.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: It's the Pennsylvania Connection.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: So okay, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Jamie Laftus.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Derante, and this is our show
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: where we analyze movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point to
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: initiate much larger, much grander conversations.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: It's true, and the Bechdel Test, of course, is a
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: media metric created by Alice and Bechdel as a joke
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: as a goof back in the eighties in her comic
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Likes to watch out for. It started as just a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: one off joke, but has since become a way to
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: talk about how and if women are represented in movies
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and people of marginalized genders in general. A lot of
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: versions of the test. The version of the test that
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: we observe to start our conversation is the test requires
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: that there be two characters with names of a marginalized
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: gender talking about something other than men for two lines
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: of dialogue.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Or more or more, preferably more often but not. It
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: doesn't happen that way usually.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: But there's so much to talk about. It's not the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: b L and end all of any movie. And today
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: it's it comes but twice a year, a birthday episode
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: where Caitlin and I really get to go absolutely hogwild
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: on on our on our choice of movie, on our
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: choice of guest. It's a fun time. And this has
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: been an episode that has been it's not an episode
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: that's ever been. It's been requested by one person. It's
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: no coincidence of that person's sorry guest. Yeah, but I
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: would say it's been well, Dad, what do you how
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: long have you been asking me about This's been a
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: couple of years.
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: Well, how long have you had the show seven years now,
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: it hasn't been seven years.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I would say at least four years.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Well, we've talked about this, I mean in your other
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: podcast life when you did the Kathy podcast. You know,
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: it was a it was a thought that I had that,
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: you know, there was this comic. It wasn't for everybody,
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: but the more I thought about it, it was kind
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: of it was unique first time. You know, it was
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: like there really weren't in themic strips. You know, women
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: were moms or girlfriends, maybe teachers, but there was never
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: like a single business woman. So I tossed that to you,
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: and I guess in the case of slap Shot, you know,
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: I sort of was thinking of a Kathy thing too,
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: because you know, there are interesting to me, you know,
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: representations of women and their stories, and that's that's what
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: your cast is all about, you and Caitlin. So I thought, well,
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: you know, throw it out there and see what they think.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: And here we are, and sure enough, we're doing it.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: We're covering a slap shot and the guest you just
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: heard Alan Kitlyn usually introduced the guests, but they have
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: generously offered me the opportunity.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: It's your time to shine.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Jamie, our guest today, is a former hockey writer, current
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: hockey fan. Has been covering hockey since the eighties, been
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: playing hockey since the seventies when the movie comes out.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: He's also a proud father to two wonderful children, lifelong
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Brocton residents, a Brockton legend. It's Mike loftis welcome. Welcome
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: to the cast.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: Dad, Welcome, Jamie. Good to see you, and good to
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: see you too, Caitlyn.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listeners. I'm currently in Brockton at my
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: dad's house and he's he's downstairs with my equipment. I'm
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: upstairs with my phone. We've had a very professional setup.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: It's like we're not even. But he did drive me
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: to Dunkin Donuts right before the episode, so that.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: On you gotta have your birthday dunks.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, it's yeah, it's I'm feeling the birthday love.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling thrilled about the birthday. So yeah, the my
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: memory of I don't remember when you first brought this
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: movie up to me for the Bechdel cast, but you
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: every time you're like, I think it would just be
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: like if I happen to be talking about work you'd
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: be like, you know, flap Shot is written by a
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: woman that was just kind of the pitch and it
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: stuck with me.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: And you pitched it to me Jamie multiple times as well,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: and I was it was yeah later, which.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: To be fair, it's not a personal attack. That's how
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: most of our episodes end up happening. We think it
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: over for a good two years, and then eventually we
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: cover it. I feel like that has become kind of
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: our habit.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Anyways, Yeah, we're covering slap Shot. It is a nineteen
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: seventy seven film is directed by George roy Hill. It
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: is written by Nancy Dawd. It stars Paul Newman amongst
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Caitlin Is Oh I learned this. I learned this as
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: wearying dad. Caitlyn's horny for Paul Newman, and he's very handsome.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. It's kind of the only thing I'm
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: going to be able to contribute to this episode. My
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: third for Paul Newman.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, unbelievable, focused on men that night, having discourse.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna be like Paul Newman, oh woo ga.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I don't like his character, but I very much enjoy
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: looking at his face.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess, let's let's get into it. I guess, dad, Uh, well, actually,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: let's get ours out of the way kill it. What's
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: your history with the movie slap Shot?
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I only know about this movie because of the various
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: times Jamie, you've said, my dad wants to come on
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: the podcast and cover slap Shot, and okay, that is
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: the reason I know this movie exists, Jamie, what's yours?
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I know this movie exists because my dad has told
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: me about it. But I also have we've had Hansen
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: brother glasses at the house for I remember where we
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: have like I think they're on the table next to you, Dad,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: but they're like the Hanson brother like taped glasses. It's
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: it is like, that's the only part of this movie
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: that I really knew about. I had not watched it
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: until the other day to prepare for this episode, because
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I criminally have never been very into hockey,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: and so it was not a movie that really appealed
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: to me. But I knew the Hanson brothers because they
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: are so ingratiated into hockey iconography that we have like
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: glasses that were given out at a game with the
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: tape in the middle and the hands and Brothers specifically
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: are very iconic in hockey culture. I think this movie
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: is too, but like more, I think the Handsome Brothers
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: are kind of the most enduring. Would is that right?
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: Would you say? Absolutely? I mean it's you know, you
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: brought us some other hockey movies last night. There aren't
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: a lot of them. Yeah, you know, there are a
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: lot of baseball and football and basketball movies. Hockey. I
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: think hockey fans of a certain age says it's slap shot,
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: and then you know, maybe another generation would be the
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: Mighty Ducks, and.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: You know, I think we'd say more so than Mighty Ducks,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: and then current current generation. I don't know if they
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: have a hockey movie.
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: I could tell you of a hockey movie, but the
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: good It's goon Yes.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, I have heard of this one, Sean William Scott.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Isn't it?
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: If I'm not mistaken, I don't know actors that well,
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: but I think it is. I actually I know the
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Gentleman that that film was based on. Okay, it's a
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: true story about a guy who and and the and
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: the movie does not really tell the story of the
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: actual person, but classic that was okay, he knew he
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: knew that was gonna happen, and he was. He was
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: alright with it.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: You know, I hope they paid him well for the book.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: Rights that might have happened.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Slapshot has not been a huge part of
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: my life. But hockey certainly has grew up around hockey culture,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: hockey ideas, hockey labor. Yeah, I have I like. I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: like hockey, I think as much as someone who doesn't
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: follow it can.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, missus Zamboni.
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: I have a Zamboni tattoo, and I didn't notice until
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: the end of the first movie the movie Slap Shot
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: zero Zamboni's Zamboni visibility at an all time low.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: My favorite ice sports movie, as you know, is Ititania.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I love Itania. Not a single Zamboni in that one either,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: What the hell?
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: I know, it's pretty and you know it's interesting to
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: me that, you know, when I sat down to watch
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: it again the other night, like and watch it in
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: a different way, I didn't realize it was it's a
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: two hour movie.
• 9:38
  Speaker 6: Yes it sure, it feels pretty long, so so you know,
• 9:43
  Speaker 6: there was plenty of time in there for you know, Zamboni,
• 9:46
  Speaker 6: tomfoolery and yet rueling Zamboni's.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Well even just a you know, I mean, I don't
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: know if we I don't know if this is the
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: part where we even bring in little things about the film,
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: but you know, little things, little things that the you know,
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: the team does to really really continue to whip people
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: in a frenzy, right like you know, parking an ambulance
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: outside of a game, you know, before it starts, you
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: couldn't have had somebody dress up crazy and just like
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: you know, drive the zamboni.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Naked person driving a Zamboni, Well, it's a perfect it's
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: a perfect runch comedy idea.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: Okay, never mind, but you know, an oversight. I agree,
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: Jane good point.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt strongly about that. I feel like Zamboni's
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: are rarely included, to the point where I wonder if
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: the company simply objects to it because it just seems
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: like such an easy win. But they're a very kind
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: of flatigious Italian family, the Zamboni family, so I've heard
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: when I've tried to contact them. Sure, So I like hockey.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I'd never seen slapshot all the way through, and I
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: watched it twice to repair, once with my dad, once
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: without and I have I mean it's so weird because
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I feel like the reason that I didn't like this
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: movie as much as I was hoping to just has
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: mostly to do with the fact that I historically don't
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: love like super raunchy comedies, like they just have never
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: really appealed to me. But the more that I learned
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: about the production of this movie, there's a lot of
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: stuff to talk about. Certainly, a lot of it doesn't
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: age well. We were getting dinner with my aunt's last
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: night and my Annie Kate, my dad's sister. We've all
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: been hockey pilled over the years, and she's like, oh, yeah,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: I've seen Slap Shot. It's kind of hard to watch
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: now because it's long and a lot of it ages
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: really badly. And I was like, all right, so we're
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: all in the same page here. But it is interesting.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: We don't cover a lot of movies from the seventies,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: and I think for a movie that a lot of
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: it ages not well, there were more women in the
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: story than I was expecting. I think more women than
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: your average sports movie in general, I would agree, so
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: lots to talk about. Yeah, Dad, what's your history with
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: the movie Slap Shot? Do you remember when you first saw.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: Well that it actually came out the year I graduated
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: high school, nice nineteen seventy seven, which is when I
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: was wrapping up my my super average career as a player.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, give us the rundown. What position did you play? Generally?
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: I was a defense defenseman. One goal career statistics one goal,
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: one assist, multiple penalty minutes. Knee injuries, yes, one knee surgery,
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: one broken nose. Went from there to I coached youth
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: hockey with a buddy of mine for a couple of years.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: That was fun.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: When I was in college, I started officiating games as
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: a way to make a few bucks, and then that
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: all dried up and I went into the the you know,
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: there was no future in any of that for me,
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: but I still just kind of couldn't quit the game
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: and love newspapers, loved the sports section, sports guy in
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: there I am, and like the you know, kind of
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: the teeth of the late seventies or when there's a
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: lot of people going into journalism because of like all
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: the president's men, and you know, everybody wants to be
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: a journalist.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Interesting movies are so influential that didn't.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Really feel like there was an uptick after all the presidents,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and that makes sense to me.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, definitely, because a person like me, who would
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: show up and say, yeah, I want to be a
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: sports writer, was like, what that doesn't count? What's wrong
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: with you? Yeah? So that's how that's kind of where
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: it comes from. And the interesting little side story is
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: the reason that I even played in the first place
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: was that when she was young, before she got married,
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: my mom was a huge hockey fan. She loved the Bruins.
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: I think she really liked the fights a lot. But
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: you know, she got married, she had three kids in
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: four years, and at around that time, the Bruins in Boston,
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: who had been terrible for a while, all of a
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: sudden they got very good. They had a great team
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: and a lot of personality, a lot of fun, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: she couldn't contain herself. She just she signed me up,
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: even though I told her I didn't want to play
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: so and you know, by the end of my first
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: season playing it was kind of all I wanted to do.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: So there's my is that dot Now. I don't think
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: my mom watched Slapshot with me, but but you know,
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: myself obviously and my my hockey friends. I mean you know,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: certain aspects of that movie just from having played on
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: a team and everything like that just kind of, you know,
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: cracked us up.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And then just just for listener context, how long did
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: you work in sports journalism covering.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: Hockey, specifically covering hockey. I would say I started like
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty nine. Halfway through that season, I became
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: like the full time you know, Bruins beat writer at
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: my paper. And I held that job through the twenty
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: nineteen twenty season, the last the bubble season, the pandemic season.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: So it was a good It was like thirty something
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: years and I and also, you know, as my newspaper changed,
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: the industry changed, and I had to you know, I
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: always said the Bruins, but I found lots and lots
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: of other hockey stories to do. You know, here in
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: New England and the Boston area is so lots of
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: college stories, lots of stories about minor league players, you know,
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: draft picks we had, you know, coaches. And one of
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: the more interesting things was over my time was the
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: growth of like the women's hockey game, which I'm not
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: even sure it really existed when I started.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: You know, I just realized I know nothing about it,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: nor did I even realize there was a women's hockey league.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: It's cool. I mean that that, you know, obviously, you
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: know a million times worry about it than me. But
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: when when I went to Toronto a couple of months
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: ago to do a show with your rock about I
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: went to the Hockey Hall of Fame, and it's like
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: this big, cool, sprawling museum that has exhibits on women's
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: hockey and on non white hockey leagues, and just like
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: all all of this cool. I don't know, you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: it is definitely a predominantly white male sport, as our
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: most North American sports, but women's women's hockey leagues are
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: really really interesting, and I feel like there is I'm
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: kind of surprised that there isn't a movie about maybe.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, listeners feel free to let us know if
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: there is one and we just don't know about it.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: But I don't think I've ever seen like movie or
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: show explicitly about women's hockey, which feels weird. I feel
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: like there's movies about at least one movie about women's
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: sports in most major sports.
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, but it was, I mean, it's around here,
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: and I guess, you know, in other places where hockey
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: is a thing. You know, the youth in high school
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: and college level. You know, women's hockey is a thing.
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: You know almost every almost everybody has a team now
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: in college. And the interesting thing to me was it
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: has struggled to really get off the ground and stay established.
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: But I will say, for like the last five or
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: six years has been a women's professional hockey league. You know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: where women you know, it's professional, they got paid to play.
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: As the twenty nineteen twenty twenty season was winding down
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: before everything shut down because of COVID, I always I
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: think about, how interesting is that the last athlete that
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: I interviewed face to face one on one was a
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: women's professional hockey player. Cool, which I thought was you know,
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: I didn't know it was going to be the last one.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: I thought I would be going to work the next day.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: But or you would have talked to a man.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: No, I was there specifically to do that.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, you're killing it, everything's going great. No, No,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: that's that's really I am obviously a fan of my dad,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: but I think it's I think I do think it's
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: cool that you've covered so many local stories that no
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: one that that are not ordinarily covered especially with I mean,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: like I mean, Caitlin, what you just said is kind
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: of proof of that. It's just like women's Like women's
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: hockey is absolutely a thing, but it's not covered in
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: any sort of broad way, right.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Like I've never seen a women's talkie game on TV.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Not that I'm like actively seeking out sports games.
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: You you would more likely find it during like the Olympics.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: It's a it's a yeah. And an issue is that
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: the United States is great at it, Canada is great
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: at it, but there's you know, they need more international competition.
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: It is you know, it's not like there's generations of Swedish, Norwegian,
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: you know, European players.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, like Sweden, what are you doing? Hello?
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: I know, right, But I mean it'll come. It will come.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: It will when I write my awesome women's hockey movie.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: So let's take a quick break and then we will
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: come back for the recap.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: First periods over, you could say.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: And we're back and now it's the second period. How
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: many are there periods? Okay? There three?
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: So this kind of works perfect. Wow.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So the thing that I thought was halftime, it's
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: probably not actually halftime there's like two breaks.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's the middle. Yeah, there's not really any like
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: manner of halftime show for hockey. There's like, uh, well
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: to guess my ms. The Zamboni's are kind of how
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, they come out twice and they
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: resurface the ice because that's their kind of one purpose.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: And and sometimes uh, you know, kids and also local
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: celebs will come out on the zamboni and sometimes it's
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: me Staple Center in January twenty twenty, it was me
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: one time. I think we should I think we should
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: definitely post a picture of it to our Instagram. Actually absolutely,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's pretty importantly do. But there's well there's
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: also I feel like there's because there's no cheerleading element
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: to hockey because it's on ice. But they have like
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: what do they call like it's a group of it's
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: now a gender inclusive group, but it's like a they
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: kind of assist the zamboni's. It's not really as best
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: of as cheerleading or dancing. It's really just like excited sweeping.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: And there are there are some teams that will employ
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: people to you know, stand in the stairways and everything
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: and cheer.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, I know that job. It seems like a fun job.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I wonder if I feel like traditionally those jobs are
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: really low paid. I wonder what the deal is in hockey.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: But I was like, you know, I would sweep, I
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: would sweep in shorts. Why not?
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Anyways, let's what happens in the movie slap Shot let us.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I would be delighted to tell you. Okay, we meet
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: a minor league, right, minor league hockey team called the
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Chiefs from the fictional town of Charlestown, Pennsylvania, not to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: be confused with Charlestown, Massachusetts, which is where the movie
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: The Town famously takes place.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: That is kind of the famous town. Wow.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the most seasoned player and also the coach.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I did not know that the coach of a hockey
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: team was also a player. Fascinating to me.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Can that happen in minor leagues?
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Is that a thing?
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah? It has been player coaches. The lower you go,
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: you never know what you're going to see.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: So the coach slash a player is Reggie Dunlop played
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: by Paul Newman Albahabba. And then we meet some other
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: players like Ned Bryden. There's a goalie named Denny who
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: is French and everyone makes fun of him for English
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: not being his first language.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: I really like his opening monologue that ends like with
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: him just poetically describing the penalty box and then you
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: get free. I was like, whoa, Yes, you feel shame
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: and then you get free, and you're like.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Whoa, Denny. We also meet Joe McGrath, who is the
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: team's manager because he's not the coach, so he's the manager.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: Is that right, Mike, Yeah, general managers what you'd call, okay.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Got it. He has the team do fashion shows to
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: promote the games because people aren't coming out as much
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: to the games anymore because the Chiefs kind of suck
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: and they've been losing a lot. Also, a local mill
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: is going to be closing soon in town and it's
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: going to potentially mean that Charlestown will sort of dry
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: up and then the team might have to fold, so
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: that's looming over everybody. We also meet the Hansen brothers.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: They have just been signed over to the Chiefs. They're
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: characterized as being a bunch of dipshits who bring their
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: toys with them even though they're adults.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: They're yeah, they're young adults. I don't know. It's like
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: it didn't shock me that, like when they're like eighteen,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: twenty and twenty.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: One something like that, and then.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: You're just like, yeah, I guess they would bring.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Their race cars.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I was about to say they're not
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: hurting anybody, but that's actually kind of their whole fanger.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: But they do kind of they are super violent on
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: the ice, and then they would later go on to
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: form a boy band and sing bop.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: It's so confusing, Like I got that is that's a
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: good generation gap. It's like, who are the hands and
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: brothers to you? Right, because I'm going to mbop every time.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that boomers had their own handsome brothers.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: It's true. Okay. So we also meet a few of
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: the players' wives. They're his wives, such as Bryden's wife Lily.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: She hates this town. She seems to just kind of
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: generally hate her life and possibly her husband. We also
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: meet Francine, who is Reggie's ex wife who he is
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: trying to win.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Back to know of it my hero, my favorite character,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Francine Rocks.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: So the team they wonder who owns the team because
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: they don't know, and Reggie is like, I don't know,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: it's just a corporation. And then they're general manager. That
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: guy Joe reveals that this is the Chief's last season,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: and the players are worried that they won't be signed
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: to another team. Some of them feel like they're getting
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: too old to like be a valuable asset to another team.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Reggie thinks that they might get sold and get transferred
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: to a new city. He's thinking somewhere in Florida.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Reggie is such a mess. It is no secret to
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: anyone on this call. And I don't care for the
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: character of Reggie. Not a fan of his. I think
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: it's so like we'll talk about him more obviously later
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: in the episode, but I really like especially the second
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: time when I was watching it, it was because he's
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: such a piece of shit to everyone, and it's it's
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: really interesting to me that like his only redeeming moments
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: happen privately, Like he's never publicly nice to anybody privately
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: will he will say nice things about people behind their back,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: never to their face, And it just like it made me,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it was an interesting character. I mean,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: it's tricky because it's like, I don't think the movie
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: is fully I don't know. I mean I I think
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: he's like he's a piece of shit and also kind
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: of tragic to me in a way because he just
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: seems like someone who needs a friend so badly, but
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: like can't stop getting in his own way enough to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: ever like have a friend. Like there's so many characters
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: in this movie that he almost forges a friendship with
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: but then turns on them or is a piece of
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: shit to them, or like feels insecure for a second
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: and says something cruel to them, and you're just like
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: this person is so like it's it's a mess. He's
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: an asshole. But it's also like it's sad, Like it's
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: like this guy just needs to get out of his
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: own way and make a make a friend, but but
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: but he can't do it, and it's it's very frustrating
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: to watch him sabotage himself over and over truly.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So he's insecure about the future, sure of the team,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: and he goes to this sports writer Dickie Done aka
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: basically Mike loftis, Yeah.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Dad, did you feel represented? Dicky Done?
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: I do like that he's often well just trying to
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: catch the spirit of the thing.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: You know, he says this a lot.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I mean you know whatever Reggie Dunlop plays him.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: You know obviously, you know kind of plants this story
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: about here we're getting sold when you know that never
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: was going to happen. Right, So Dickie's Dickie's failure to
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: like maybe follow up on that.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: He's not doing very good journalism, yes, because he's doing
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: no research.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: But you know he's probably selling some papers, and you know,
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: he just it's funny how he just sort of fell
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: right into right, right into Reggis. Reggis trapped there.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Well, he is charming, he is like charismatics. So people are.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Like, he is hot, so you should probably.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Be so hot. So everyone listens to him.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: And that's a great line too where there you know, Paul,
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: you know Reggie is reading the story. Hey, Dickie Dunn
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: wrote it. You know it's true, right.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Also, Uh, it's it's stereotypes. Uh, sports writers as bad parents.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: His daughter run out and her brother was bullying her,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: and he's like, all right, resolve it among yourselves. Talking
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: to Paul Newman.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I'm doing business, right, now I'm mister business, bad representation.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: I think there might have been a drink or two
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: there too.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, he said, he said, go away kids,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: and then he starts drinking again. There's a lot of
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: drinking in this movie, so much drinking. Yeah, Dad, you'll
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: have to explain the seventies.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: So Dickie Dunn is like, that's ridiculous. No one's gonna
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: buy a fifth place team, and Reggie is like, well
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: that's about to change. Mean, while Reggie is having an
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: affair with an opponent's wife, his wife Suzanne, and she
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: tells Reggie that she's been sleeping with other women recently,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: which Reggie uses when he plays his opponent the following week.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: This guy named Hanrahan Han Rahn. That will we'll talk
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: That'll be a whole thing, because that's it's like, that's
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: something that this movie is so constantly infuriating, mostly because
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: of regg Yeah, where you're like, oh wow, I would
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: guess that that wouldn't be something that would be like
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: commonly discussed in a popular movie in the seventies, and
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: then in the next scene you're like, well, what was
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the point, Like, if you're just going to do that.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: What was the point exactly? Yeah. So Hanrahan is the
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: goalie for the other team, and Reggie is taunting him
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: and saying, you know your wife is a lesbian. But
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: he's using a lot of slurs and it makes hanrah
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Han so mad and distracted that he gets scored on
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: a bunch and the Chiefs win, also partly because they
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: get very violent and start beating the shit out of
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: the other team.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Which is sort of like becoming their new Emma Owing card.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yes. Meanwhile, we have a scene with Lily.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: She's still having a really hard time. It seems like
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Brandon is cheating on her, and then Reggie tries to
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: comfort her, but in a very sleazy way where he's like,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: come over, I'll give you a foot rub.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: He's so frustrating. I'm just like, she that's whatever I mean.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I guess the choice is consistent with Reggie's character, but
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, ah, these two characters, they both need
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: a friend. Why can't they be friends to each other?
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: But it's because Reggie can't because he's a creep. Yeah,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: because he can't not be a creep.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: But he's not even the most creepy guy on the
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: team because that's a guy named Morris's.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Oh he's a disaster. Yeah.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so the team sees this story in the paper
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: that Dicky Dunn had printed about how the Chiefs are
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: going to get bought and transferred to Florida, which they're
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: very excited about. And so, with the team morale higher
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: than ever, the Chiefs start winning a bunch, although again
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: they're playing way rougher than normal. There's lots of punching
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: and bloody faces and stuff. Although Brayden is opposed to
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: playing dirty, he thinks it's cheap and not the right
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: way to win, which.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: He'll sort of like built into He's like, I went
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: to college. I'm not none of this nonsense. I went
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: to college.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still a piece of shit who's cheating on
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: my wife, but I have morals.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: But I went to college.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: But Reggie is very pro all of this hockey violence,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: and he starts putting the Hansen brothers in the game,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: whose entire strategy is just to punch the ship out
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: of their opponents.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I kind of love the hands, Like, it's kind of
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: hard not to love the Hansen brothers.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: They're so goofy, they're extremely goofy.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Wait, my dad's got some some a real real sleigh
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: of a of a context corner for them. But oh okay,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I love I love the hands and brothers. They're fun.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I yeah, there's awesome anyway. So, uh, the team continues
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: to speculate who the owner is. Meanwhile, this thing is
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: happening where Reggie just like keeps lying about the team
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: getting bought and sold to keep the morale up. And
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: also maybe he's just like deluding himself because he knows
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: that he's about to reach a point where he's probably
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: gonna have to tire and he's so insecure and he
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: can't deal with it.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: It's so I read this incredible essay about how Reggie
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: is a metaphor for the men of Pittsburgh in the seventies. Wow,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: and I'm just like, I'm excited to talk about it later.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, Okay. So then Reggie sees Francene with another guy
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: and he's kind of like following her around and calling
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: different places that he knows that she frequents to try
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: to like see who she's been there with. Very stalker behavior.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah he's doing I mean he does the same thing
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: to Lily. He like jumps in her car at one point,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: like he's just he has no no issue really inserting
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: being around.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And he bumps into her at some point,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: and franccene tells Reggie that she's moving to Long Island,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: which I'm like, yes, please get away from him. Then
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: there's an upcoming game against Syracuse, so Reggie goes on
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: the radio for an interview and he says that he's
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: putting a bounty on I don't know if it's that
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: team's coach or just kind of like one of their
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: star players, this guy Tim McCracken. And he's like, I'm
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: paying one hundred dollars of my own money for someone
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: to kill him.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: It's such a love bounty. It's kind of fun, right.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: And then there's this player who has given himself the
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: nickname Killer and he's like, I'll do it. I'll kill
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Tim McCracken. Anyway, Lily shows up at Reggie's place with
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: her huge Saint Bernard dog. She seems to have left
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Bryden and she has a new lease online.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: He doesn't know it yet.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: He doesn't know it yet, let's see. Then Reggie takes
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Lily to Francine's hair salon and she gets a bit
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: of a makeo.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I have some I have complicated thoughts about that scene
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: because I feel like that scene's heart is in the
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: right place, but it's kind of broadly done. But I'm
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: excited to talk about it.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Then Reggie finally figures out who the
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: owner of the Chiefs is and he goes to see
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: him just kidding. It's a woman jeamed whit Anita McCambridge,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: and he wants to know how the sale of the
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: team is going, but she tells him that she plans
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: to fold the team and take a tax loss rather
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: than sell it because she won't make enough of a
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: profit if she sells the team.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: It's like every single decision, like every streamer is making
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: right now, they're like, no, actually, we're deleting your entire
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: life and career because it suits me today.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: Fuck you.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Yikes. And so this news infuriates Reggie and he brutally
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: insults her son and then storms out.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Classic Reggie, He's like, well, I'm feeling a little insecure
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: and angry. Let me insult someone who's not here in
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: the cruelest way I can possibly think of, truly, kind
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: of his whole thing.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Then Reggie comes clean to his team. He admits that
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: there's no deal for them to be bought and moved
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: to Florida. That Ned was right all along. They shouldn't
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: be resorting to all of this violence as a way
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: to win games. And this is Reggie's last game and
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: he's gonna play it straight and try to win that
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: championship honestly and legitimately. But this is when they're playing
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Syracuse and that team is ready for a bloodbath. So
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: the game starts and the Syracuse team are fighting, but
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the Chiefs aren't fighting back, and they're losing. And then
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: it's not halftime, it's either after the first or second period.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: They're like in the locker room and their general manager
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Joe is like, hey, there's a bunch of NHL scouts
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: in the crowd, so you have to put on a
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: good show for them, and Reggie's like, okay, forget everything
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I said. We're gonna play dirty, and then we just
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: like cut to everyone punching each other. Francine and Lily
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: show up to the game, and Braiden sees his wife
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: and he's like, wow.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: This part is where this is where like the whole
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Lily story falls apart from me where I'm like, what
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: happened here? So confused about what happens with Lily's character.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know sure, and I also don't know
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: exactly what prompts this. But Braiden goes out on the
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: ice while everyone well everyone's just punching each other and
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: not playing hockey even a little bit, and Braiden starts
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: doing a strip tease, and everyone in the crowd and
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: all the players are like, te wow, And for.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Some reason this solves all of the problems in his marriage.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: You're just like, it's very cinematic, but you're just like,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense, but it's a very movie behavior.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he does the strip tease and it somehow
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: wins the game. I don't know if the other team forfits.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know what happens.
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: I could tell you. So as as Ned is doing
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: his strip tease, one of the players, one of the
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: it might be Tim McCracken, is furious and he's like,
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: you know, during the middle of this bloodbath, he starts
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: to yell at the official like that's disgusting. Make him stop,
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: And the officials like, what do you mean, it's disgusting
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: look at this, and they end up with an argument e.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: McCracken or the you know, the opponent hits the official.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: He which is, no matter how low the miners or whatever,
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: you know, you can't hit an official. And he hit him,
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: and the officials says that's it. The game's over. You forfeit.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: You know, got it? Okay, okay, nice, okay. It reminds
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: me of an air bud when they're like, there's nothing
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: in the rule book that says a dog can't play basketball.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: It's like, there's nothing in the rule book that says
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: a player can't come out and strip to win the game.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Right, you can maybe get a penalty for it.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: Play was stopped at the time, you know, it doesn't.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: It's true, so he's basically just doing it. It's like
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: that that could have been the the ice sweepers, it
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: could have been, could have been anything, and he happened
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: to do that. I don't, yeah, I have so the
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: way that this movie it's so bizarre. We were talking
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: about it when we were watching it a couple of
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: nights ago, where it's like this movie in the last
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: half of it, like I'd be on board, and then
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: it would lose me for ten minutes, and I'd be
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: back for a couple of minutes, and then it would
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: lose me for ten minutes, and then I kind of
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: liked the ending, and it was like I didn't see
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I don't like, well, whatever, we're at the end, basically, yeah,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: but like it lost me during this whole game, because
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: you're like, why does ned stripping on ice solve the
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: issue of infidelity and them hating it each other? And
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: then it seems like well whatever, Like I'm I didn't
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: dislike the scene between Lily and Francine, even though it
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: was like whatever channeled into the idea and to a makeover.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: I think you can make the argument that it was
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: like she was getting a makeover to feel better about herself.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: It didn't seem like it was overtly for her husband
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: or for anyone except for herself.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Because she had already left him by that point.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seemed like she was doing it to feel
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: more confident about herself. And I don't have an issue
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: with that, but it just seems like it's like implied
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: that something happens between Lily and Francine off screen that
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: leads because I'm like, I don't even know why they
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: show up at that hockey game. It's confusing to me
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: because it seems like Lily or Francines like getting really
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: gassed up to like get out into the world and
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: start her life. Like whether that's dating or moving or whatever,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: it is kind of unclear. But then it's like, the
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: next time we see them, they're at the hockey game.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: You're like, when did you guys decide to go to
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: the hockey game? Why? It seems like the opposite of
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: what Lily was trying to do.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Right, they should have gone out to dinner.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: They should have gone out to a singles bar.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Right, and then they could have started a book club together.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't know anyway, So we cut to
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: a parade. The team I think has disbanded, but the
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: players seems like they're getting contracts to go play on
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: other teams. Reggie is going to go play in Minneapolis.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: He tries to get Francine to come with him, but
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: she's like pass. But Lily and Braden do get back
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: together in an infuriating moment, and then.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Everyone I've never been so it on different characters endings
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: where it's like I'm thrilled for Francine and I'm completely
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: confused by Lily.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but anyway, but everyone's celebrating at the parade, and
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: that's how the movie ends. So let's take another break.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Second period period is over. Is there a big Is
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: there a big buzzer in hockey to like signify the
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: end of a period?
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: Well, I think it's a siren, you know.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so a wuga will be right back. We're back,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: and it's time for the third period.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: And the third period can go on for a while.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. There's no time limit.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: If things are tight, you know. Sometimes sometimes it just
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: keeps going.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we go into overtime.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: Overtime, yes on the Bechdel cast.
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: Yes, oh that's exactly Okay, I wonder that's that's when
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: we do the our scoring.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: That's oh yeah, that's like the penalty shootout kind of thing.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Dad, I before we get into the full analysis,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you feel that the sport of hockey
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: is like does this feel authentic to because you, I
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: mean like we're reporting like on the road with teams
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: and reporting from locker rooms for decades. Does this movie
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: feel close for the era? Does it feel overblown and moviefied, like,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: how does it square with your experience in this arena?
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: You know, hey, you know, it's a good question. I
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: mean I think, you know, when I watched that movie,
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: everything in it from the hockey standpoint is just an exaggeration.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: It's like, you know, yes there is locker room talk,
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: but some of the extent that these guys, you know, no,
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: I don't think. I mean, I never heard the violence
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: in games. You know. Yes, it's a very very physical game,
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: and I would say back in that era that was
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: more of a factor, that was more of a strategy
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: than it is now. And also to the NHL, it's
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: like any major sport, people follow him. There's like the
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: top level and then there are different tiers in hockey.
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: The lower that you go, you know, you're probably not
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: going to make it, you know, you might you know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: move up another level or two. So the crazier things,
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: I guess, you know, would tend to happen, you know,
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: in the lower minors, smaller towns, you know, smaller franchises,
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: things like that. I mean, and that's you know, that's
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: kind of where the movie came from.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: Nancy Dowd's brother.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Ned Nancy the writer.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, So her brother played college hockey
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: in Maine, and then he played two years a low
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: minor professional hockey league, and he would he you know,
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: he would tell his sisters worries about the you know,
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: the things that happened, and thus the movie. You know,
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: so a lot of it. There's a lot of things
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: that are based on things that actually did happen. And
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: I think that, you know, for film purposes and everything,
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: you know, it's it's amplified and exaggerated.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: That's something I mean, I guess that's like a place
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: that I would be down to start, is just talking
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a little bit about the behind the scenes process of
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: this movie, because I didn't I know that. I mean,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: the one fact I knew about this movie other than
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: it's where the hands and brother's glasses comes from, is
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: what my dad told me five thousand times, which is
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: that a woman wrote the movie. It was the fact
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: that I knew, but I didn't know I actually really liked.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like it I was like, oh,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: I kind of do stuff like that sometimes. Where Nancy down, Yeah,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: like she heard that her brother was involved in this
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: what was the name of the team that the Chiefs
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: are based.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: On, the Johnstown Jets, okay in Pennsylvania, So that was
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: a team.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Her brother was on. He called basically with the premise
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: to slap shot that this you know team was not
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: going to be around for much longer, and so she
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: followed them around for a month, and she like shadowed
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: them and did basically like Gonzo's style, following this minor
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: league team around. And so a lot of what she
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: saw went directly into the movie in the script, which
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I think you can argue works for and against it
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: because it's like if she's presenting in this the late
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: seventies that authentically a lot of it doesn't age well
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: because it was, you know, almost fifty years ago, but
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: it does seem like that was sort of her goal
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: in writing it and what she was trying to present.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: And so I went back to the way that this
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: movie was originally covered because it was like a hit.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: It was a box office success, people liked it, Paul
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Newman was in it, and it was also like I
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: thought it was interesting that it was drawn attention to
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: when the movie came out, that these were like, quote,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think if there's like a contemporary
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: example of it where they were like quote unquote like
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: respectable filmmakers making this raunchy comedy. Because the director of
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: this movie, George roy Hill, like he directed Butch Cassidy,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: he'd done all of these like, you know, really prestige sensitive, thoughtful,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: prestigie movies, and then later in his career makes this
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: super super raunchy comedy. And then you have Nancy Dowd
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: who is from Framingham, Massachusetts, representing Massachusetts, but grew up
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: you know, like a pretty like upper crusty Massachusetts life.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: She went to Smith College like she was like a
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: no one and this was like her first success. She
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: went on after this. Two years after this, she won
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: an oscar for a movie called Coming Home about Did
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: you see that? Dad?
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: I did? Did you like it?
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: It was?
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: It was a little challenging to believe. It's very serious.
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: It was like a it was kind of like a
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: Vietnam War movie real and it's you know John Floyd
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: so well it.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Works against it. Yeah, it's no national treasure. But no,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: I mean it's.
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: Like speaking.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: But yeah, because John Boyd is truly evil. Yeah, but
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: but it felt like these prestigiee stars, serious writers and
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: directors making this really raunchy, goofy comedy. But it was
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: also like my dad. The news talked a lot about
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: how like a woman wrote the movie in a different
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: context at I'm not criticizing this, but I just like
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: most of the coverage of Nancy Dawd at this time
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: was like, it's the raunchiest comedy of the year and
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: a Woa wa will woman wrote it, and like, which
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I think that we still see stuff like that, and
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: it's still like the majority of Raanji comedies that come
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: out are not written by I don't think that there's
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: really parody. I mean, there's not parody in film in general,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: but I think, especially in this genre, it still feels
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: super male driven. I feel like joy Ride is the
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: only exception I can think of this year. But I
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: read some of the coverage because I was like, well,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: how did Nancy Dowd kind of feeld this? And I
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: thought she was cool. I thought she was really funny
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: and really cool. She says this in a New York
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Times article from nineteen seventy seven. This is how it's
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: set up. Set up obscenity hockey. A woman missed out
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: has been meeting so many people lately who can't believe
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: that she actually wrote this screenplay, that she is beginning
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: to lose her patience, and she says, quote, the world
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: has a weird view of women. People seem to believe
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: that we have to write about divorce or suicide or
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: children so called women's topics. But we've been around women
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: aren't sequestered anymore, and kind of just goes on to
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: talk about how it reminds me of like how you
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: still see a lot of women writers being like, well,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: wish this wasn't the story. Shut up, like watch the
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: movie and like it or don't. But this movie was,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: even in its time, considered to be pretty sexist. I
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: think Paul Newman called it honestly sexist, which I think
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: is an interesting way to come about it. And I
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: think I think what he's trying to say, I don't know,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: let me know if either of you feel differently, is
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: that it feels like it's more speaking to like how
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Nancy Dowd was not transcribing dialogue but like just sort
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: of saying authentically, how guys she was hanging out with
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: we're talking and not sanitizing what they were saying. So
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: it's like she was hanging out with sexist guys. The
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: movie is honestly sexist because she's not like, you know,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: sugarmaking more appealing.
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, and you know I would say too that,
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: you know, when it came out, you know, and I
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: was whatever, eighteen years old. I don't recall knowing that
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: a woman wrote it at the time.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, we just you know, you should have been
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: reading the New York Times, well they couldn't up about.
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: It, reading the Brockton Enterprise, and hoping to one day
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: work for the Patriot Ledger. But we were just excited
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: because there was a movie about hockey, you know, and
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: it was our thing. Really didn't take it that much farther,
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: you know. I was surprised when I like looked a
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: little bit more into it later on, you know, just
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: finding out like little little things about people who were
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: in the movie. You know that that got me to look,
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: you know, behind this, not behind the scenes, but behind
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: the story, and it was like, you know, the only
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: thing was like, oh, a woman wrote it. I guess,
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: you know. My not reaction to that, but like the
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: way I I might come off that way is like
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: like if her brother wrote the movie, it'd be like, oh, yeah,
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: of course, you know, like all that dialogue, this and that,
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: and it just it just you know, it just wouldn't
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: have seemed you know, it's so raunchy. Like I'm not
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: saying like anybody can't be raunchy, but it's like, you
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: know that one character, you know, Kaitlin you brought up
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: Marris is like it's gross, you know, it's like it's hideous,
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: like his h you know, I was saying to Jamie
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: it was not like I never heard some of those
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: terms before, but like so so rare, you know, and
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean I don't know, I guess in
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: an office, you know, on a team, there's always that
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: one person that you know takes it a little bit
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: farther or just like is extreme.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: And as I was as I was watching it the
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: other night, it was like I didn't catch, you know,
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: in my earlier viewings of it that a lot of
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: his teammates are kind of grossed out by him too,
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: which is like, well, you know, thank God for that,
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's well, we'll get into
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: this too, like I I don't know, it's I think
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: that it seems like her goal in writing the movie
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: was like writing obviously like a movie that people would
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: like that was funny, but was also like authentic to
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: what she'd experienced, which I don't really have a problem with.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's more like, especially because this movie has
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: been out for almost, you know, fifty years now, like
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: it's interesting watching like what parts of this movie are
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: its legacy because I feel like the parts that I
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: thought were interesting about the movie are not parts of
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: the movie that are famous. And also that's like the
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: writer has no control over what becomes known about their
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: work or not. But it just I don't know, I
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: just think it's there was more to this movie than
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I thought, but like the nuanced parts of it aren't
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: what it's known for.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: That Plus like, yeah, she was observing the team, and
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: who knows, like if she was like transcribing like stuff
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: that they said and putting it into the script, or
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: if she was embellishing some of it. But it seems
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: like for the most part, she's like, well, the way
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: that Dicky Dunn just tries to capture the spirit of
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: the thing, I.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Mean guess I guess she's trying to do that.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Nancy dwod was just trying to capture the spirit
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: of the thing, and that seems like the spirit was
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of like pretty losersh guys who are either
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: creepy or stockery, or they don't treat women well, et cetera.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: That's just the vibe. Those were the vibes she was getting.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: So that's what she put on the page. My concern
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: is that a lot of it is presented uncritically and
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: or just framed, like Morris saying all of his gross
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: comments about women's bodies and stuff like that is usually
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: just framed as a joke, like ha ha, look at
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: the look at the team creep. Isn't he funny? Aren't
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: we laughing at him?
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: So but again it's like, you know, it's the seventies.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: A lot of horrible things we're not presented critically. It
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: was just this is what's normal, and it's normal. So
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: that's fine.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, it's movies of this era are
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: always I feel like in that way. Yeah. Sorry, I
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: have one more quote from her from this New York
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Times piece. The piece goes on she's generally frustrated that
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: the movie was considered to have strong sexist overtones. This
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: was something I was talked about in original reviews of
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: the movie, but she was annoyed with that. She said, quote,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: the only thing I thought twice about writing was making
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: the team's rich, uncaring owner a woman. I worried about
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: people saying I had made a sexist statement, but I've
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: seen that woman's attitude so many times. Quote I never
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: let my children see a hockey game unquote, So it
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: seems I mean whatever she felt, she felt differently, And
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like, I feel I respect what
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: she's trying to do, and I also agree with what
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: you're saying. Galen, is like it just depends on like
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: how your movie is received and how like I think,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: if you're looking for nuance in this movie, you can
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: find it, but because of the genre, you might not
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: necessarily be looking for it.
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: I don't know, you know, And I think too, like
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: the you know, the fact that the owner is a woman.
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: You know, As I was, you know, pitching this idea
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: to to Jamie, it's like, I don't think this will pass.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: I think this is like the worst possible. But she's
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: she's you know, us the description rich uncaring, it's also
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: it's a she's a ruthless, bottom line business person, right,
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: and like any guy would have done that, you know, Yeah,
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: I mean it the same, you know, But so I
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: don't I don't know that you saw a lot of
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: that back then where the I don't know, is it
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: called girl boss. I don't want to step in anything here.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: You know. Well, yeah, you've seen my you've seen my show.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: I mean I think it kind of I think that
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: it does fall into that thing. I don't know. I
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: think it's interesting that that was what was on her
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: mind in seventy seven, because I that was one of
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: the characters that I didn't think, really I didn't have
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: an issue with. I had an issue with how Red
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: treated her versus like how she was portrayed, because it
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: was like at that point for me, I don't know
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: how you felt at this point in the movie, Caitlin,
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: but it was like you had seen different kinds of
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: women throughout this movie that It's like I feel like
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: sometimes if there's only one woman in the movie and
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: she is like a ruthless, cruel person, then it's like, well,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: I have no idea how this writer feels about women.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: This seems like how they're presenting all women. But because
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: it's like this one character who comes up late in
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: the movie, I feel like she represents more of a
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: class thing than any sort of commentary on gender. And
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: I was fine with that, Like it's you know, she
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: and Regen is seen both suck in very very different ways.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that worked for me. I thought it was
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: interesting that that was the thing that stuck with her,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: because I think the thing that stuck with me really
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: was I agree, like there's not any pushback on how
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: men talk about women in this movie. I agree with
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: you Dad that like they're they're there were some that
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: you know, you would, but you would have to kind
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: of be looking for it of like someone being like Hugh,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: because they do like the I think that the character
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: that is most clearly written in a way that the
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: movie is conscious of being sexist is I don't know,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: do you know what the name of that character is,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Like the one that is who only says.
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: Sexist Morris Morris.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, Morris's whole thing is that he views women
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: as objects. And it's like that's the joke with the character.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, and to go back to go
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: back to the point that it's a two hour movie.
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: If you cut Mars out right, it becomes it could
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: have been.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: An easier movie to digest for sure.
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean it doesn't really add anything. I
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: don't think, you know, it's just it's like it, you
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: know again, the scene with the owner and Paul Newman.
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: You know, as I think about it now, that's like
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: Reg Dunlop, you know, the shoes on the other foot
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: now because you know, not because she's a woman, but
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: she's the owner and she's telling them like, yeah, I
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: could help you and your and your your players, but
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: you know, but there's nothing in it for me. There's
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: no money in it for me. And when he says,
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: you know, we're human beings, you know, that's maybe about
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: as you know for all the other scenes where like
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: he's sort of vulnerable and he wants you know, France
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: scene back. You know, that was a it's a small scene,
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: but that's probably you know, his most his most human
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: vulnerable moment maybe, you know.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: And it could have been a much more effective just
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: scene in general or commentary or whatever it's trying to
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: do as far as like, yeah, rich people conduct and
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: them not caring about human lives and only caring about
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: the bottom line. But then the scene ends with him
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: going on a homophobic tirade about her young son, and
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: then it's just like, well, that undercuts everything that could
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: have been interesting about that scene.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: Right, Caitlin, As you said earlier, the scene where you
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: know he's with the opponent's wife, you know, I mean,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: you know, she explains a very you know, personal thing
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: to him, and he seems to be listening and have
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: some you know, respect and everything. But then you know,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: right two seconds later, and that sets his character. Everything
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: he can use he will use against others.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, well that's that's something that I maybe,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, if it works for every I mean that
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: maybe has a good opportunity to slip over to just
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: read as a character. I wonder I'm trying to think
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: I couldn't think of like a modern day analog for
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: this character, because I do think that there is value
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: in presenting a character like this, who is you know,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: like I struggle, like a complicated guy, but someone who
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: responds to insecurity by being hateful like that is I
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: think something that exists in the world. It exists in
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of men, but a lot of people, but
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: mostly men. If we're being honest, But you know, in general,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: these are people who exist in the world. I don't
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: think it's off the table to present that, but presenting
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: it as your movie star hero is a very difficult
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: self for me because then it's like, I think that
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: the element like Paul Newman, I think gives a good
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: performance in this movie, but he's Paul Newman. You know,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: he's like, you're gonna love him because he's Paul Newman,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: and he's charismatic, and he's handsome, and even when he's
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: saying horrible things, especially in the late seventies where people
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: said horrible things more openly than they currently do, Like,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: it's just it's even if there is something to be
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: said about presenting a character like this, I feel like
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: the combination of positioning it as your main character and
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: your hero, and also like combining that with he doesn't
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: really I mean, I guess like he doesn't get what
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: he wants in the way that we see in some
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: movies where like someone fucking sucks the whole movie and
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: then for some reason they get exactly what they want
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: at the end. It's a mixed bag for Rege at
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: the end. But I wouldn't say he like he doesn't
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: get his uh really like he gets to continue to
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: work in hockey, Like he gets part of it. I
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: think the main thing he loses is the relationship that
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: he very obviously still wants, right and deservedly so and
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: not I think is one of the better done parts
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: of the movie for sure. But yeah, I don't know.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I struggled with how his character was framed.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know, especially because he learns nothing, he shows
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: no growth, and even at the end when it seems like,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: you know what, I don't want to win this way
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: by you know, pummeling the other team. I want to
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: play hockey and win that way. And then as soon
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: as he's like, oh, they're scouts here, and it's.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Like never, never mind.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like okay, so you have absolutely no
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: code of ethics. That's interesting.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: And again, I mean, I don't know if we're supposed
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: to be where we're supposed to be in the discussion.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: But you know, again, the more I thought about it,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: I remember reading a piece several years ago about the
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: movie as you know, kind of a not a hockey
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: movie or a good but like a sort of a
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: snapshot of America kind of at the time, late seventies
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: and I you know, I can't really remember what the
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: economy was like, you know, but things, you know, longtime businesses,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: you know, long time industries were really taking you know,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: a hit back then, like the steel industry. And and
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: one of the things that kind of struck me watching it,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: it's like with everybody depicted in there, even if they're
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: not characters in the movie, but like you know, the fans, right,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: they're all looking at losing their jobs because they're you know,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: their jobs are going to disappear. And the player will
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: they get signed, you know, will the team full? Will it?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: You know, if they were believing it would get sold.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: To me, there's like this low level desperation you know,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: to survive on the on the parts of everyone there,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: you know. And in the case of Paul Newman's you know,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: Paul Newman being the oldest one, being not really that successful,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, whether this is you know him
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: all the time or not, you know, he's he's kind
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: of the worst one. He's like, I will I will
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: do anything. I'll do whatever it takes, you know, to
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: be able to continue my career someplace else or here.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: And if it has to do with you know, kind
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: of manipulating my players or manipulating people who are involved
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: my players, you know, means to an end pretty much
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: all the way through.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: You know. I Yeah, I I the closest I can
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: get to rationalizing Rag's carecharacter. I read an essay, an
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: academic essay. I was on Google dot scholar dot com.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Of course. Yes, this was published in athlon A E.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: T hl O N Eighth Lawn, The Journal of Sport Literature,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: volume thirty seven, issue one from twenty nineteen, written by
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: John Source. To take everything he says with a grain AsSalt,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: but I did really appreciate his retrospective view on this movie,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: and I think it offered because he did a more
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: class driven view of the men on his team, which
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: I do think is a valuable way of looking at
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: this movie. But he basically makes the argument that Reggie's
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: character like doesn't shy away from the fact that reg
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: is a despicable character, and I do. I guess it's
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: like we don't have nineteen seventy seven goggles to put on,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: and I wonder how clearly that read at the time.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: But I think that the argument that he makes the
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: I think is interesting and kind of speaks to like
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: the parts of this movie that did work for me
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: was that, you know, I think the setting is very
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: relevant here where they're like encapsulated in this fictional steel
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: town where jobs are falling left and right. There's this
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: huge sense of insecurity about the future, and you see
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: in these men on the team a level of like
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: people acting desperately when their future is insecure. And I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: think reg is a really extreme, kind of like monstrous
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: version of that, where he is so desperate to preserve
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: what he wants for his version of the future that
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: he will undercut almost anyone in his life, even if
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: he likes and respects them. He is not above completely
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: selling them out in order to preserve the future that
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: he feels entitled to. And John Soares kind of makes
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: the argument that this movie The Streets, well, I guess
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: something that is historically true. I didn't know this, but
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: I was delighted to learn it that in times of
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: economic insecurity and in recessions and depressions, women are like
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: statistically more likely to move with the time, and men
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: are more likely to cling to how things were and
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: be unwilling to change their situation. They're less likely to
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: want to move, They're less likely to want to switch professions.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: They're less likely to want to change the way that
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: their day to day life is versus women are far
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: more likely to be I guess like just kind of
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: more realistic about what's happening.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: More adaptable.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 4: You know, there's a line in the movie and in
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: the scene where you know, redch and his opponent's wife
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: are in bed, and it closes with I think he's
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: telling her, you know, the team's going to fold, or
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: the team they know, I don't know what I'm going
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: to do, and she says to him, you know, just
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: just use your imagination. That's what I've been doing. So
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: it's you know, And I think he uses that line
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: himself later on yea, on somebody else, but you know, but.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: He's still I mean, but I think that that's part
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: of like what is frustrating about the men in this
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: movie for me is like they even at the end,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: and I think the movie is conscious of this, Like
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: reg has not really changed because his last line is
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: him lying about whether his wife is leaving him or not,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: because you know, Lily is like, oh, is she coming
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, and we know she's not. And
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: it's like this it's kind of like a I think
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: viewed a certain way, and this is not the way
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: that this character is regarded in pop culture, but I
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: liked looking at it that way of like, this guy
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: is kind of tragic. He can't accept that things are
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: changing and that his life is changing, and that is
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: something that I think is like very relatable and everyone
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: has experienced that to some degree. And also it's like
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: if you whatever, because we as the audience know that
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: he is just like really committed to having the upper
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: hand in his life in a way that's impossible, and
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was interesting. But yeah, I think
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: that viewed from that sort of perspective, the men in
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: this movie are not flexible. They are completely inflexible and
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: they refuse to accept a future that is uncomfortable to them.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: And the women in this movie are not like that.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: They will. I mean, I think that the well, and
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about really shortly because it's like her character
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: is so frustrating because I feel like she was inconsistent
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: with this. But with the characters of Suzanne, who is
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Suzanne Hanrahan I'm assuming, and Francine, they are both women
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: who are like, look, I was either uncomfortable, unsafe, and
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: so I got the fuck out and I moved on
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: with my life. And that's like, that's what you have
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: to do to survive. And I think it's a especially
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: effective with Francine because she knows that she's right to
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: leave him. I honestly was I thought that the movie
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: would end with them getting back together, and I was
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: so thrilled that it didn't.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, it feels like a good fake out. Yeah, she
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: turns her car around and joins the parade. Yeah, I mean,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 4: and that was you know again, that was a thing
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: that sort of struck me about the movie. You know,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: in a lot of other movies, that's what would have happened.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: You know, they would have gotten together at the end.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: You know, she would have been like, Wow, you won
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: the trophy at the championship game. Well here's me another
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: trophy trophy.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, happy endings in movies, right, that's.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: The Hollywood does love a happy ending.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: But the last shot of this movie is her driving
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: in the other direction, and I feel like that great.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: That was my favorite sort of thread in the movie.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: Is I felt like because of the time, and I mean,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: this still happens in movies that they would how I
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: end up reconciling When she showed up at the game
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: at the end, I'm like, well, that's curtain's on, Franccene.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: She's gonna be fucked over. But rewatching it again knowing
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: that she leaves, it's even kind of like cooler. Yeah,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: she was my favorite character because she consistently like she
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: has affection for her ex husband but also like doesn't
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: want to get back together. And I think like in
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: their interactions, it was really interesting because Paul Newman's character
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: is constantly trying to like manufacture a need that she
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: would have for him, where he's he's constantly like, well,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: if you need money, you can call me, and she's like,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: I don't bought, Like you know, she doesn't need him,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: and he can't like he knows that at his core
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: because he says it behind her back. He never says
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: it to her face, but he says behind her back like, oh, yeah,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: since my wife broke up with me, her life has
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: been way better, Like he says that to Lily, So
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: it's like he knows it, but he can't really admit it.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: And it's just it felt like an interesting, like complicated
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: relationship dynamic that feels like something that happens in the
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: real world. And I just like that specific subplot I
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: think kind of worked for me, especially because Francine was like,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: you know, touched that he seemed to recognize that when
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: she heard it from a third party. But he's right,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: and she wants to move on with her life and
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: she does, and I thought that that was cool. Yes,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: But for some reason, that same nuance in generosity is
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: not extended to Lily, which I found to be so weird.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, was that a studio note, Like two women
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: can't leave their husbands, it can just be the one
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: like what happened there? Because Lily, I think again, is
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: set up in an interesting way, but then it kind
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: of goes away by the ant of the movie, right.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: It seems like she's being set up that her arc
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: will be like she's mustering up the courage to actually
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: leave her husband, which is so that she seems to
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: want to do for a while. She's like very vocal
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: about how miserable she is in this town. She seems
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: very miserable in the relationship. She's watching her husband flirting
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: with other women, and she eventually I don't know if
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: there's some catalysts that gets her to finally leave him,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: or if it just kind of happens, but one day
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: she shows up on Also the fact that she goes
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: to Reggie. I guess he's the only person who has
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: like extended any kind of olive Brancher or anything.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: I sort of found that to be an act of
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: desperation because we've seen her fail to make friends and
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: connections inside of this small world that she's been forced into.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: Kind of right, because we see her hang out with
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: other hockey wives for lack of a better term.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Who to be fair, and I think this is like
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: a class thing where she and her husband ned because
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: they're like from you know, well to do families, and
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: they're both college educated. She is positioned as like smarter, hotter,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: better than the other hockey wives, which didn't feel fair.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and she's not able to connect with them.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: So anyway, she leaves Bryden for a while and goes
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: to Reggie and she's like, I'm moving in, I guess,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: and then he takes her. He introduces her to Franccene,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: and what I would have liked to have happened was
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: they become friends. They have a lot of common ground.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: You know they're both.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Which is like established, and the one scene they have together,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: it's like.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: Right, like there's a lot to learn for sure, like
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: there are neither like current or former relationships with hockey
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: players who don't know how to treat women well at all,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: and the women are sick of it. And I thought
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: it was gonna be a situation where Franccene empowers Lily
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: to like you know, write out on her own, because there's.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: Which it's like, I well, but that's what was so confusing,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: because it felt like, you know, you can I don't know,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: like the makeover thing didn't bother me at all really
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: because it's also like we're seeing Susanne or no, sorry,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: we're seeing Francceine at her job. So okay. I think
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: a lesser movie would have reg be like we gotta
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: make this girl over and you know, but like Reg
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: right there and Francine and like whatever, it's a dated
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: way of doing it. But I was like, okay, but
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: then when but then when they go to the hockey game,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: like what happened? Because I really liked that conversation where
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: Lily is and again it's like in the context of
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: like what I mean, we're well into second wave feminism
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: by the late seventies, but leaving your husband in the
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: late seventies is different than currently, right, and there are
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: different dynamics to that, and so I understand why, like
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: Lily is nervous about it. It's a nerve wracking experience
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: to leave your spouse, no matter what is happening in
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: But I liked how Francine like she said, it's lousy
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: at first you think you're dying, but then it's fabulous.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: You become a new woman and you're like, this is
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: such an interesting dynamic to set up, but then it
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: just goes nowhere, it goes back nowhere.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and the interesting you know Caitlyn too, I mean,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 4: like and Jamie, that's your name, right, Yeah, I agree.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: Like Lily, you know, that whole character sort of confuses
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: me because you know, she makes very clear she doesn't
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: like that life. They could go back to, you know,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: something easier with money, and she leaves her husband but
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 4: stays in the life. You know, she stays in the town.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 4: She goes to another hockey person, you know.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: So it's like, I do wonder, I mean, but I wondered,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: like if that was just like temporary and then she
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: because it was like, I mean, I guess it took Franccene.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: We don't know how long she and reg have been separated,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: or how long Francine had to save or whatever it
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: would take for her to start her restart her life
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: somewhere else, But I don't know. It seemed like the
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: movie was setting us up for like, oh, Franccene could
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: inspire or give Lily the confidence to do something similar.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: Yes, coach, I agree, like I empower her coachure, so
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: that that part was a little bit hard not to
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 4: just of it. It was like, oh, I didn't think
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: that was going to be the result of this, you know, right, because.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: Then it's like Ned, Ned does not change at all.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: I know that, like symbolically him doing the strip tease
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: is supposed to mean something, but it just like that
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: did nothing for me at all. I found his character
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: frustrating throughout. I mean, as you know that, I just
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: like did not take to that character at all. I
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: didn't like him. I thought he was both snobby and
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: exactly all of the things that he claimed that he
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: was above. Like yeah, I just I just didn't I
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: thought he's like such a snotty little asshole who is
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: horrible to his wife. I didn't know how to communicate
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: with her. Again, a legitimate relationship dynamic to explore, but
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: like I felt like at the end, he's like, now
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: I got my wife back and she's got this cool
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: new makeover, and it's like, but you did nothing, You
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: did nothing. And the last thing he did before he
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: did his weird little routine that I didn't like, was like,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: talk shit about her on the radio. And I was like,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: is ay I gonna tell her about that? Say, we're
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: gonna tell her that he called her a hot piece
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: of ass who's an alcoholic that hates him on the radio,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: because I would not be thrilled to hear my spouse
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: saying shit like that.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: True. But then I'd be like, but he's exactly right.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: I am a hot who hates.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: Him, and I'd stop drinking if I if I just
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: left him.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, when Francine and Lily show up
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: to the game at the end, one of them says,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: what am I even doing here? And I'm like, yeah,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: your question, what are you even doing there?
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: I wish that I knew the answer.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: Well, I think if if Lily wanted to go to
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: that last game. She did not really have a lot
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: of friends among the other wives. True, you know, so
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 4: you know, like as an ally maybe And there is
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 4: another scene and you know, you know, we've talked mainly
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 4: about the same two three women, but there are some
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: scenes with the other wise. Like there's a scene where
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 4: the wives are all in their car waiting for their
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 4: husbands to get home from a bus trip. And I
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 4: thought it's a sort of a sad scene, but in
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: the in the in the same way, they kind of
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 4: like have to kind of you know, form their own
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 4: little group and rally around each other and support each
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: other because they clearly are not, you know, too psyched
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: with with the life either. And there you know what
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: their husbands are doing, and you know that they're gone
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: and this and that.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: I wish since this is mostly an ensemble cast, you know,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: you've got Paul Newman is like the main character, but
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: you've got a lot of little subplots with various other characters,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: that there was more focus on the wives of these
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: hockey players, because to me, they're in more interesting situations
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: than especially because so many of the men are characterized
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: as either just being like hot headed or trying to
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: prove something about their masculinity, or their sleezy creeps, or
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: their wildly homophobic you know, all of this stuff that
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: I don't want to see. And then the women are
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: in this position of you know, it's a time where
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of people in like hetero couples, the women
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: were still relying on their husbands for sustainable like for
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: his income, and women in the workplace were not as
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: welcome as they are today. So it was hard to
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: be a single one owner to be, you know, someone
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: earning your own way as a woman at that time,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: and so they're relying on these men who are not
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: treating them well at all. But it's also very like
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: normalized culturally, but they still are like heavily drinking about it.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: There's a scene where.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: I will actually I liked the scene. I think you're
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: gonna reference because I yeah, it's I'm trying to like
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: put this through because it's like, it's not like there
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: were not movies that had women protagonists in the seventies,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: but in sports movies, I know that that was I
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: feel like, I don't know, I feel like I feel
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: a little defensive of Nancy Dad because I will say,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: I do think that in this movie, the men, with
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: the exception of Reg, who at least you see a
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: few layers of even though I kind of dislike all
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: of them, but you do see different lairs of this character,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: so there's like no and how he's written. But I
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: think that the women that are presented far more broadly
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: than the men are because most of the hockey team,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: except for like Ned and Reg, are like just like,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: here's this guy, and this is what he does and
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: how he reacts. Like here's a sexist guy, here's a
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: violent guy, here's a homophobic guy. And you're like, there's
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: all these guys, and they're written in the very, very
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: broad way that men in raunchy comedies are, which is
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: kind of why I don't like the genre. But I
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: will say that, like, I mean, I even think back
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: to like raunchy comedies that came out when we were
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: the target audience, and I'm thinking like early hangover movies
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: and like John Appatow movies and shit like that, and
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: I feel like in this movie you get women, like
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: more different kinds of women than you did like thirty
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: years later in some cases. But true, I think the
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: hockey wives are the most broadly written women that appear
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: in the movie. And I didn't love that because I
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: feel like it in the same way that I didn't
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: like when Ned was like a snotty like I went
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: to whatever fucking school he went to, and so I'm
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: better than most of the guys on this team, like
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: it's just like a moral superiority. And Lily kind of
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: takes that into how she treats the hockey wives, where
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: I think she treats them kind of as like bimbos
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: who aren't as smart as her, and it seems like
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: that is a part of the reason that she doesn't
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: hang out with them, because it seems like the other
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: hockey wives, who I don't know if we get names
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: for them, they seem like they I mean, they have
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: a lot in common. A lot of what they have
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: in common sucks. Is like they are sort of along
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: for the ride of their husband's career and it seems
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: isolating and depressing and frustrating. And I thought it was
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: she's made a joke of. But we see the same
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: hockey wife a few different times who's constantly like kind
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: of referencing like Johnny either like Johnny, Yes, Johnny's who's Johnny.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: I have no idea which Johnny is, but he's one
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: One of those. But I thought Johnny's wife like she's
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: played for laughs mostly, But I thought it was like,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I didn't. I liked her like she
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: was she was like trying to make the best of
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: what she seemed to know was a bad situation. But
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: she's like I'm trying to get my husband to read
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: a book, or like I'm trying to get my husband
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: to do anything except be a fucking goon, which is
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: like whatever, what like all the guys in the team are,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's not. Is it the most
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: progressive thing ever? No, But I didn't feel like there is.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: Like she was like an interesting character that I wish
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: it had been played for more than last because when
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: one of the fights that Lily and Ned have in public,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: you know, Lily basically ends by being like me and
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: Ned are better than everyone here, bye, and like leaves right.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: And Johnny's wife, who God, I wish she had a
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: name respond to that by being like, oh, I really
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: feel for her, and you're like, that's I don't know,
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: I whatever, Like I guess I understood like those. It
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: seems like it's implied in the movie that those women
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: don't connect with each other because of class differences. But
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: I felt like the hockey wives I thought were played
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: broadly in a way that it would have been because
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: I appreciated that the movie made time for women at all,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: which again it's like, I like, sports movies almost never do,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: and if you, if you do, it's like the supportive
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: wife like grabbing their husband's hand being like go.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 7: Go coach a baby or whatever the fuck, which is
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 7: like so fucking boring. But it's like how a lot
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 7: of women appear in sports movies at all. But there
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 7: was especially because it's like Nancy Dad seemed to want
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 7: to include women.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: But it felt like well to an extent, like I'm
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: happy to include educated women, but like it seemed like
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: the hockey wives were. I just feel like there was
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: room for them to be played off as more of
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: kind of one liners. But I liked that scene in
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: the car where it was like, even though these women
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: don't get along, they do have a common struggle and
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: they are pushed aside and expected to put up with
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: all of this shit, and it's like leading to addiction
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: issues for them, and.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they all seem to be self medicating to fight
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: the just either loneliness or abuse that they're putting up with. Right,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: can we talk about Suzanne, because.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Suzanne.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: So Suzanne is the character. I think she's only in
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: one scene, yeah, which.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: Is wild because the actor who plays her is like
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: so successful and won an Oscar like this same year.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, what's her name? I didn't even look it up.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: Well, Linda Dylan. You probably my dad picked up on this.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she is she? I think most
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: iconically plays the mom in a Christmas Story. But she
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: or no, sorry, she was nominated this same year for
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: playing I think the mom character in Close Encounters. Okay,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: but whatever. She's like a very very successful actor. But
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: she's only in this movie for one minute, for.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: One scene, and it's the scene where she's in bed
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: with Reggie, and she's talking about how her husband Hanrahan,
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: when he was like out on the road for a game,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: how she and another hockey wife they would get together
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: and talk about how depressed and lonely they were without
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: the men, and then also how they lamented that they
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: never did much of anything themselves, which I feel like
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: is also maybe what Lily struggles with to some degree,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: where she's like, I'm not doing anything but like supporting
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: my husband in his career, but like what about or
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: maybe this is just like headcanon that I'm assigning to Lily.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: But anyway, Suzanne's talking about how like, oh, I never
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: did anything for myself, and then she goes on to
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: describe how one night when she and this other hockey
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: wife were hanging out, they were drinking and they started
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: fooling around, but then they kept getting together and having
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: sex sober, and that they were like engaging in this
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: like sexual relationship that they were both into. And she's like, hey, Reg,
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: have you ever considered sleeping with men? And at first
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: he says no, but then he's like, who knows, maybe
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: I'll start sleeping with old goalies. And then I'm like, okay,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: he's I don't know.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: That scene is like almost and then it's so frustrating.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 8: But it's also like I feel like that's like Reg sucks,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 8: and it's like it's so frustrating to see a character
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 8: that in their more private moments seems to be a
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 8: better person than they are in their public.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Because again the whole reason this scene even
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: happens narratively in the movie is that so he now
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: has information that he uses against his opponent in a
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: way that like outs this guy's wife, like disparages her
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: for her queerness, and he's like using that as ammunition
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: to try to win the game and like for his
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: own personal benefit. He does something similar with the general manager,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: that guy Joe, where he's like, Hey, remember that night
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: that you I walked in on you and you were
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: wearing like women's lingerie and then you came on to me. Well,
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: I don't have to tell anyone about that as long
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: as you give me. So he basically like blackmails him
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: to learn the owner who the owner of the team is.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: That's something that yeah, And then that's like I do
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: think the Reges is a super villain because I do
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: almost believe him when he says that he like he
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: he's like, I get it. It's the seventies, queer people exist, Like,
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: I do believe that he understands that. But the fact
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: that he understands that and is not above exploiting societal
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: homophobia against people that he knows and says he likes,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: it's like, that's that's extra Evil's that's extra evil.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 4: And in that scene, you know, like first of all,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 4: the scene where he you know, kind of bates the opponent,
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: the goalie, right, you know, with this information that he
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 4: has about his wife, you know, from a hockey perspective,
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 4: you know, nobody, nobody stands on the ice and shouts
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 4: at someone and then moves over.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: You know, Oh, they're not shouting plot points at each.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: Other on the Oh no no. So that that was
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: like annoying because some of the you know, some of
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 4: the stuff with the Hanson brothers, the hockey, the skating,
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 4: the this that the hitting you know is legit. Those
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 4: guys were really hockey players. But so Reg dunlop and
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 4: rages the goalie who attacks him finally after a goal
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 4: and it's a big fight. Now does anybody know at first,
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 4: like what caused this big fight? Did anybody hear what
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 4: Reggie was saying? I don't think so? Just the goalie? Yeah,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 4: so he he could have left it there on the ice, right,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 4: But then he comes in and tells his whole team
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 4: like when they asked him, would you say, you know,
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 4: and he you know someone else that he was you know,
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 4: I don't know that that is diabolical.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's evil, Like it's evil, and it's first because
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't hate their scene together before I saw the
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: scene after, because it felt like these are themes and
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: just like queer people like just appearing in movies at
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: all in a way that was like it seemed like
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: they both accepted each other in that scene, and like
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: the language is not great, but it's like for the time,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: it was like, wow, this it seems very unlikely that
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: this was appearing in like popular summer comedies at the time,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: So okay, like you know, I can navigate around the
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: dated elements of it, but yeah, it's yeah, he was
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: so evil about that. And I feel like she because
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: that character never comes back. It doesn't come back around
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: in a satisfying way, but in the same way. I mean,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: I love her. I like that scene. I think the
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: last thing that we were talking about, dad, that I
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: think is extra evil about Reg in that situation is
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: that she mentions in that scene that when her husband
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: found out that she had had sex with women, he
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: was so abusive to her that she was in the hospital.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: And it's like, well, Reg clearly doesn't care about that, yeah,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: because he then taunts her husband that he knows to
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: be abusive, and she says that like she's hiding out
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: from him, Like it's just sounds like she was in
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: this tremendously abusive relationship, which again I believe it like seems,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: you know whatever, that that still happens. But the fact
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: that like our movie starting Hero then does that, I
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: feel like it did undercut the fact that the movie
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: went out of its way to say like that her
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: having a queer relationship. Not only was he up said
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: about being cheated on, but also this thing that felt
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean that I guess you can
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: tell us for the time, like there seemed like there
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: was talk among the men of just confusion and like
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: hateful confusion in handra hand and the whole team's case,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: They're like, well, if my wife has a relationship with
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: a woman, then am I gay and I can't be gay?
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: And like just like stuff that makes no sense.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a stretch. I think I don't know.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: That that, you know, I was like people people believe that.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not sure that you know, but when I
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 4: was a kid, I don't really think that that is
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 4: what somebody thought.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like it doesn't make any sense, but
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: it Yeah, okay, I was, I was curious about that,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: but it Yeah, I mean just again, reg Reg sucks.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: I love Paul Newman and I love Salad, but I
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: hate Reg And it is what it is. But I
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: did think that it was again, it's like this, this
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: movie feels like it's doing incremental stuff in this genre
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: that you don't see decades later. So I do appreciate that.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: It's like there is a queer character who is like
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: open about it is cool, is performed in a way
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: that felt authentic and cool. But also the seventies element
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: of it is that they're immediately put in danger and
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: then never appear in the movie again.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: So and you know, she's she's talking about her sexual
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: relationship with a woman, but the scene we're seeing on
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: screen is her in a sexual situation with a man,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: because heaven forbid we see like queer romance or sexuality
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: actually on screen at that time.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure, or And it's like I sort of chalked
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: that up more to like, well, how did people talk
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: about bisexuality in the seventies, did they know? How did
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: they have the tools? I just sort of assudent they did.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: But also like the way that raunchy comedies of like
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: the nineties and two thousands would have, which.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: I think are worse than this movie. Honest, they are.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: They Yeah, and we've talked about I think I've like
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: speculated as to why, but the way that those movies
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: will have visibility of queer characters or of people of color,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: but they're only there to then be like punching bags
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: to the main characters who are just saying horrible things
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: and like making jokes at their expense of like what
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: in whatever way they are marginalized, That's that's why they're there,
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: and it's so jokes can be made at their expense.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: So and I felt the same way for Suzanne, like, yes,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: she's a queer character who's talking openly about her queerness
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: to someone who seems receptive to it. But we learned
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: that that scene is only in the movie so that
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: this guy can use that as ammunition to win a
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: hockey game and then boast about it. He's like, yeah, team,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: the reason we won is because I outed this woman
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: who has an abusive husband, and.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 9: Anyone who had listened, yeah, that's I think that's like
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 9: that's a not that it justifies any kind of behavior,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 9: but the fact that he does it a second time,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 9: like he shouts it at her husband, which is putting
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 9: her in danger in one way, but then he does
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 9: it a second time.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: Right after, and it's.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: Like he's the worst.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: Just so you doing.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: I don't have much else to say except that their
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: their bus driver is wearing a helmet with a swastika
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: on it.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: I noticed that as well.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 4: I never never caught that the first several times I
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 4: watched the movie. You know, Walt Walt, who just goes
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 4: from Walt the bus driver and you know, he's another one.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 4: He gets all swept and swept up in the you know,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 4: chiefs mania and starts you know, hammer and the bus,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 4: you know, to make it look meaner, and then the swastika,
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 4: you know, but that you're.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: Just like, is that? Yeah? That that was a kind
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: of jump scare in the movie, and it's like if
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: it was. I think maybe the most generous reading of
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: that was like, oh, this team is getting more and
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: more evil, but we were like, there's so many there's
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: no world where that was necessary. No.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also an indigenous player during the final game.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about that. Yes, I mean I
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: know obviously you did get spread it up. Yes, which
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: in general, because the team in this movie are called
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: the Chiefs and there's a lot of and I think
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: that that's an ongoing conversation in sports, is it is
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: teams that are named and characterize Indigenous people as mascots,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: and that's an ongoing conversation also in hockey specifically because
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: the Chicago Blackhawks. I mean that I know you know this,
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: you know this whole conversation of representing Indigenous people as
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: mascots and the issues and conversations that have taken place.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: And also that team is still called the Chicago Blackhawks.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: They did not make any changes after that conversation was had.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: I was trying to happen in the mid twenty tens.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: But so this team is named the Chiefs, and there
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: is a character in the.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: On the Syracuse team, Yes, what is his Clarence swamp
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: Town aka Screaming Buffalo, who is played by a real
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: hockey player named Joe Nolan, who is First Nations.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: I was worried that I was really worried that it
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: was a guy in brown.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: A white guy. Yeah, but this is a real Indigenous person,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: a real hockey player However, the way that the costuming
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: and the just characterization of that character is still relying
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: heavily on stereotypes of Indigenous and First Nations people. So whoops.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a tough one, you know, I mean all
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 4: the way down to like I said earlier, there was
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 4: so much of the hockey parts of it are like,
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 4: you know, an exaggeration, you know, like almost like a caricature,
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 4: you know, of that scene. That's one of the things
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 4: in the in the mood, it's like that never would
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 4: be allowed, you know, he just he that's that's a
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 4: you know. And again it's you know, we've talked to
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 4: you know, if you could snip this guy out and
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 4: this guy out, it really changes thing. That was like,
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 4: all right, you've you've made your point. You know that
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 4: the Syracuse team is loaded up on rugged guys, right,
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 4: you know, to pay you back? You know, like how
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 4: many did you have to have?
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: Right? Well? And it's also like I don't think that
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: the solution to that is cutting out that character. It's
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: just presenting this real life First Nations hockey player in
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: a way that wasn't you know, inherently connected to the
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: fact that he was a First Nations player, Like I
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: don't know, I have no objection to like having a
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: cause because, like you've mentioned that, there's so many real
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: life hockey players that appear in this movie, and Joe
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: Nolan like played on a number of teams, including the
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: Johnstown Jets. He's from a hockey family. He is h
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: This is according to Hockey Legends dot com scholarly journal.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: Yes exactly. He is Ojibwa. He is the uncle of
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: Buffalo Sabers coach Ted Nolan and great uncle of Jordan
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: Nolan of the La Kings. So he's like from a
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: like legacy hockey family. There's no issue with him being
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: in this movie. It's just like presenting him as not
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: inherently connected to his Like it's just like it's obviously
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: written by a white writer of the time, disrespectful and
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: just being like, well, this is his heritage, so this
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: is going to be the whole character, and we're going
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: to write it in the way like we're going to
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: write him for a white audience.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the most trophy way possible.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: And it would have been cool, Like it would been
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: cool if Joe Nolan was cast in a role that
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: was not that like was just like he could have
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: played a he could be a guy on that team,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: but just it's obviously racist the way.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: Right with more than fifteen seconds of screen time, you know.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: I also this is like separate, but I learned about
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: it on my trip at the Hockey Hall of Fame,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: so I wanted to mention it and we can link
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: it in the description of this episode. But just the
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: history of Native American and First Nations players within hockey,
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to be discussed and learned about where
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: there are still a number of I mean like, there
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: are a number of Native players in professional hockey today,
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: but there's also a history of hockey in reservation schools,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: and hockey has a role in Canadian reservation schools. There's
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: been a lot written about it in the last couple
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: of years that I think is very relevant to what
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: we're talking about, very interesting, and especially when this Jo
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: Nolan character came up, it was like, oh, there's actually
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of troubling and like relevant Indigenous history within
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: hockey that if you're interested, we can link a piece
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: that I read below and I learned about it. I
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: don't know why I keep plugging the Hontey muse. I
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting and we'll link it.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 4: Indeed, ironically, I have never been to the Hockey Hall
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 4: of Fame.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: I know, it's just like texting you pictures the whole time.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: Where is it Toronto?
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, in Toronto, the Hockey Hall of Fame. I saw
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: the Stanley Cup from a healthy distance, and then I
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: did not pay ten dollars to have a picture taken
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: next to it.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: Nice, I took a picture of it from far away.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 4: Well, just because I did all the research on the
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 4: one of the interesting things, I mean, the people who
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 4: know this movie would be very frustrated. It was like,
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 4: how could you not talk about? You know? The interesting
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 4: things to me are that there really were Like so
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 4: the three Hansome brothers. There really were three brothers on
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 4: that Johnstown team. Their last name was Carlson. They were
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 4: all supposed to be in the movie. One of them
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 4: got called up to a better team, so they had
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 4: to replace him with somebody who looked similar. His last
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 4: name was Hanson, and that's that's how they named the
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 4: three the Hansons. But god, it just there's a there's
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 4: a lot of little interesting things there the one character
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 4: that he's like, I want to collect that bounty. Who
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 4: is another person that Regg Dunlop you know, manipulates because
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 4: he's you know, kind of like a peacenik and a
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 4: meditator and everything like that, And all of a sudden
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 4: he becomes Dave Killer Carlson. Well, Dave Killer Carlson was
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 4: a real player, and he replaced the Hanson that had
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 4: to leave. It's just there's a lot of funny things
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 4: in there. So he thought he was going to get
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 4: to play himself, but instead he had to be a
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 4: you know, become like a surrogate brother and be in
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 4: a movie where someone played him. My last favorite thing is,
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm no actor, but throughout the movie there
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 4: are references made to this player that everybody's fearful of,
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 4: you know, Ogie Oglethorpe. Right, Yes, Ogie finally shows up
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 4: in that last game, never says a word, scowling at
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 4: everybody in that scene, scowling and then fighting. That is
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 4: Ned Dowd, whose sister wrote the movie.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, Nancy Dowd's brother.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 4: Yes, so Ogie is you know, but I mean, I
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 4: just that scene just cracks me up. Just the skating
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 4: out with the you know, chewing the gum and looking
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 4: either ways. You know, but for for that on a
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 4: screen time, just you you know, to sell it, I'm like,
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 4: all right, nice job guy, you know.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I like I think that that's like
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: just the I don't know element of just like how
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: she did this sort of immersive approach to research and
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: then seemed to include a lot of people that she'd
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: come across or learned about in that research in the movie.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: Like that's I just I don't know, I think that's cool.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 4: You know, and you know, there are there are elements
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 4: of truth in the two and then I'll stop talking about.
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 4: You know, the Charlestown Chiefs slash Johnstown Jets that nineteen
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 4: seventy seven season that concluded so they could make the movie.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 4: The Jets didn't go out of business, but their league folded.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: Oh oh okay, you.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 4: Know, so this this was a thing that was happening,
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 4: and that league had only been around for four years.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 4: The other thing that's interesting is like, you know how
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 4: outrageous it was that, like, why would anybody a hockey
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 4: team in Florida? Well, you know, there are professional hockey
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 4: teams in Florida now and it's you know, it's gone
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 4: pretty well in a couple of the places.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I guess that's the last thing I
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: wanted to say was that I appreciated that the movie
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: went out of its way to connect the struggle of
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: this hockey team to what was going on in their community,
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: and how like it was just like acknowledging I don't know,
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: I felt like because it was done off of this
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: very specific reporting in this region or this research I
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: guess in this region, it like does reflect the socioeconomic
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: problems in the Pittsburgh area in the late seventies and
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: connects it to this hockey team in a way that feels,
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know, like class conscious, in a way that
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: a lot of sports MOVI fees either aren't or feel
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: like overly sort of melodramatic about. It. Just felt like
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: it fit very cleanly into this world, and like not
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: only like it wasn't like the town and the team
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: because it was a minor league team. The team is
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: a part of the town and so they're all sort
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: of sharing the same kind of issues, right.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that and we you know, we're talking about this earlier.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: But how Reggie like does a bunch of you know,
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: it's like desperate times call for desperate measures, and under capitalism,
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: when you know your livelihood is being threatened, a lot
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: of people do have to act out of desperation and
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: do things that they would maybe not otherwise do to survive.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: But and so and that manifests in Reggie as like
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: manipulating people in a way that's like extremely harmful. So
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: I guess my point is, like you can do things
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: out of desperation because capitalism is killing us all without
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: also being extremely homophobic and you know all the other
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 2: things that he does, Like it would be one thing
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: if all he did was just like lie to his
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: team and like plant that story in the sports writer
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: to be like I heard we were getting bought by Florida.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: And if he tells his team this and his objective
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: is just to get morale up so that they can
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: win and like actually maybe have a shot, Like I
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have any problem with that really because it's like
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: a not a not a diabolical.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: Lie, it's a victimless crime.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But the fact that he's doing that, plus all
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: manner of like blackmailing, homophobia, outing people, all this stuff
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: like that's where I can't.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you're not just gonna call him over that
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 4: old rascal red chunk today.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: So okay, let's get through it. I this movie does
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: it does well.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 4: I was so surprised to hear yeah.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: He kept checking with me to make sure that, and
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: he was like, wait, what so it doesn't Well, it's
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: a flawed metric. It doesn't. Just because it passes doesn't
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: mean it's a feminist movie.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: Because Lily and Francine talk about Lily's hair and cheekbones.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 3: And share and they mentioned share, and then there's the
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: other scene where it's Lily and then the two other
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 3: women who I don't think have names, So by that
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 3: caveat it would not pass.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: But they are talking about drinking alcohol and.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: They're talking about addiction problem. Yeah.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 3: Like yeah, so so it's by the scants teeth.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: But it does technically pass. And I feel like I
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: want to I want to hand it to this movie
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: as passing because of it feels like in many ways
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: the odds are stacked against any sports movie about a
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: men's demon passing. I was really surprised that it technically passes.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 4: I mean, if I can. I mean, when I thought
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 4: about it in the you know, you know the theme
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 4: of your cast. I really just thought that this was
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 4: a movie that you know, crass and guys and thee
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 4: but that the women kind of like stuck up for
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 4: each other helped each other, didn't always. I mean, France
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 4: scene's great. I mean she tells them like right off
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 4: the bad one of their first scenes, like you know,
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 4: you're terrible coaches teams state you know. I mean, yeah,
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 4: she does it right, you know, so and and you know,
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 4: and I love, like I said, I love most of
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 4: the last scene. I still can't figure out, you know,
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 4: how Lily and Ned end up together. And I agree
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 4: with you caitle. And I thought that that the scene
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 4: with Franccene was going to empower her to really go
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 4: but you know, the fran scene, you know, goes her
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 4: own way. I mean it's just, you know, it's sort
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 4: of her own path because she you know, cuts through,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 4: cuts through the parade and goes down the you know,
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 4: down the road by herself. I just thought it was,
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 4: you know, that that was an element to the movie
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 4: that shouldn't really you know, be overlooked for sure.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, and I do think for especially
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: for its time and also for this genre even now
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: it is like unusual for women to be included. Also,
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: as much as I hate ned, he was in Twin Peaks,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: so that's kind of fun.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 4: He played hockey at the University of New Hampshire as.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: Well, and we can't take that from them either, of course.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 4: And it's big time hockey, oh is it?
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: Yes? See? Okay, now I'm nice. Sound like an asshole.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. This movie surprised me in ways
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting it to.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 4: But but we should.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: We should talk about the most important metric on the
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: face of the planet, which is our nipple scale.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, a scale of zero to five nipples in which
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: we rate the movie. That's true, you heard.
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, we need to break it down zero to.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: Five nipples, rating the movie based on examining it through
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: an intersectional feminist lens. Yeah, I'll give this movie one
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: nipple for it's a handful of female characters who, obviously
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: I wish the movie had done a lot more with
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: given more just real estate and the story to Susanne
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: only being there so that her situation could be used
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: as ammunition against her husband is obviously gross. But if
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: she had been a more meaningful character. So I guess
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: I'm giving it one nipple for the potential that the
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: movie mostly squandered. I do appreciate that Francine stands her
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: ground in not being willing to get back together with
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: her shitty husband. I agree that like most movies would
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: have like framed her as like the he's trying, he's trying,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: and at the end he finally gets her back and
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: she's the other trophy he wins. But this movie doesn't
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 2: do that, and that does count for something. Wow, the
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: bar is so low, but everything else the movie does
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: as far as it's just like rampant homophobia, ablest slurs
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: are getting around casually, the treatment of the one indigenous
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: character that we see on screen, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: If anyone is looking for a movie that features mostly
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: men that is about men who are affected by a
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: steel mill closing, might I recommend The Full Monty because
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: it handles themes of toxic masculinity and things like that
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: in a much more thoughtful way. I would say, not
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: about hockey, though it is about men stripping, although wow,
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: similar ending because we go slapshot does end in a
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: strip tease. So anyway, I I'm glad. I guess that
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: this movie, at least for like Jamie yours and my
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: generation and younger generations, it is not something that most
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: people are super aware of. It has not like it
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: hasn't ended up. Is like this like piece of classic
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: Hollywood cinema that you must revisit. It's it doesn't have
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: much of a lasting legacy in that way.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean except for hockey fans, where it's not
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: a massive leg like in a niche way. It has
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: a huge legacy in the general way, not as.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: Much true true. Yeah, So one nipple and I will
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: give it to my favorite character, fran Scene.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this movie to Nipples because it's my
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: birthday and I know, but I do think that like
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: I agree with I mean, we've talked about it at
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: length now where this movie is not generous in so
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: many ways. It is wildly homophobic the one native character
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: it represents, which is also I think that Joe Nolan
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: is the only non white character who really appears in
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: this movie meaningfully in any way. Yeah, which again is
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: not necessary, especially because of the region you're in. It, Like,
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of diversity to be found in this region.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: I know that hockey is predominantly a white sport, but
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: it's a movie. You can do whatever the fuck you want.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: But I do think that this movie is I don't know,
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: I mean a sports comedy in the seventies. Having women
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: included it at all feels kind of like a miracle
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: to me. And having a successful sports movie written by
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: a woman feels kind of like a miracle to me
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: for this era. And so I want.
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: To miracle another hockey movie.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: Hate it, but that's like the exact kind of corny
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: ass movie I'm talking about where all the girls are
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: like you've got this baby, and you're like, oh my god. Like,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: I do think that this movie has incredible fault. It's
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: like at the end because because we've talked about so
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: many broad comedies on this show, and all of the
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: swings are huge, and when they hit, they hit, and
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: when they're bad, they're awful. They're almost worse than you
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: can find in any genre, right, And I think the
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: same is true in horror or like any like broad
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: niche genre that tends to be true. And so this
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: movie is wildly dated. I understand why it is not popular.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: We watched. I'm not even recommending it really. I just
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: was surprised by the fact that women were presented in
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: uh for the most part, in empathetic way, even though
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: I did not agree with how everyone everyone's arc was resolved.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go too, and I'm gonna give one
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: freent scene because she rocks, and one to Lily because
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: she deserved better. And I hope that she you know,
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: divorced ned six months later or whatever.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: Fingers crossed?
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: Dad, what would you give this movie?
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: Based on his portrayal of women intersectionally.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 4: Boy, I have to I have to do this. I'm
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 4: not I'm not trained. I'm not sure.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: Whatever feels right in your heart.
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 4: Yes, I guess two just because too, because nipples. Well, no,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 4: just because too. And I have to pick character.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: You can do you can distribute them or you can
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: keep them, whatever you want to do.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, I like, I don't know, I just like,
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 4: for inscene is A is a great character, you know,
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, I like that part of you know how
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 4: she's like. You know, I don't care if you you know,
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 4: I know you, you know, I know you as a person,
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 4: and you know you know you might be able to
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 4: fool everybody else, you know, but you can't fool me
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 4: anymore and goes to run a way and you know again,
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 4: missus missus Hanrahan. I never remember her first. I just
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 4: think that's a touching kind of a but that's that's
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 4: a you know, that's quite a scene with her, and
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 4: it's it's serious and funny, and I just really thought
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 4: that that was a you know, probably back in the
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 4: day it was like, oh, that's a gratuitous thing, you know,
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 4: like look at this thing, but you know, look looked
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 4: at now and her story and everything like that. I
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 4: think that's you know, I don't know what to say.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 4: I can't say that I think that's great, but you
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 4: know it, I mean, it's just one that like sticks
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 4: with me anyway.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: I know what you mean. It would be a fine
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: scene if the thing that happens after it didn't happen exactly.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: Right, right. That's why it's like this movie is just
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: like frustrating in that way where you're like, wow, this
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: is representation or like a character you would not normally
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: see in a broad comedy, but then they're treated so
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: poorly that you're like, well, why why did you go
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: out of your way to do that? If you were
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: just going to treat them as a plot point and
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: never showed them again, which I think is also inherent
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: to this genre in the ways that I don't know.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: I found it especially frustrating too, because it's like I
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: thought Suzanne was in the one scene she had was
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: presented with empathy and she was cool, and it was like, oh,
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: this is really and then like we were talking about,
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: like she's treated horrifically and we never get to see
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: her again. We don't know what happens to her, and
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: the movie doesn't really seem to have interest in it
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: because she was ultimately just a plot point to get
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: read to the next step.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: So a complicated, a more complicated movie than I was expecting.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad we talked about it.
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, and thanks for joining us, sad mister Mike.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 4: Oh hey, thanks for having me along.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: Happy to do it. Uh yeah, do you have anything
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: you want to plug?
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Where can people follow you on Twitter?
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 4: I don't have us. There's no need to follow me
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 4: on Twitter. My uh, my days are done. My days
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 4: of mouthing off and I just uh, you know, which,
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 4: I didn't do that much. I was not I was
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 4: not the King of the hot takes, and now I
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 4: am the king of the silent take. I'll just I'll
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 4: just read along with you all nice. Well, well you
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 4: know I could I could plug this, you know, this
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 4: this podcast a certain book about hot dogs. You know,
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 4: there's always something, but.
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: Simply just google book about hot dogs. Yeah all right,
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: Well well Dad, I really thank you for for coming
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: on the show.
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 4: And I really can believe you let us. You badgered
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 4: us into doing this.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad we did though I don't know. It's
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: my birthday. I'm a dictator and I get to do
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: whatever I want.
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, happy birthday, Jamie.
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you. This was a way to go.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 4: Jam Happy birthday.
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: I remember he remembered it, and that's no I this
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: this episode was very special to me, both of you.
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: So thank you. I appreciate it, and I'm really glad
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: we got to do it. Love you, Jamie, love you too.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 4: Way to go, Way to go team.
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: We did it.
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 2: We won, We won the championship game.
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: We won. We randomly did a strip tease and somehow
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 1: we want.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 4: To there the best podcast in the Federal League.
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we are kind of and I say this
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: with love, we are kind of a minor league podcast,
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: and yet our fan base is intense and they fill
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: the stand and we appreciate that we do because to
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: be a big podcast you have to talk about murder
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: in a dishonest way, and we don't do that. We
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: don't want to we do, or you have to be
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: like a fascist, so it's fine, or you have to
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: be I know a lot about sports and we don't.
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 2: We clearly demonstrated that today that we do not know.
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if there was any reason that now you know
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: both did you both did?
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 4: Great?
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks so much. You can find us on.
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: No we are nothing without the validation of men.
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: It's true of dad.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 4: Oh no, it's so hard.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: I only I only he's crying, he's crying. There. You
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: can find us online up at Bechdel Cast on Instagram
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: and Twitter. You can sign up for Patreon aka Patreon,
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you get two
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 1: bonus episodes every month for mere five dollars and also
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: get access to about one hundred and fifty episodes of
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: back catalog on the Patreon. Wow and it's my birthday
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: over there this month too. We really value birthdays on
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: this podcast, so that's true, we'll be covering Little Shop
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: of Horrors and a second one that on the day
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: of this recording. I've not yet decided my second evil
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: pick for the Patreon, but oh I will think of
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: something and it will be annoying. So head over there
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 4: And Caitlin, when it comes happy birthday to YouTube, Thank
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 4: you so much.
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 2: It will be in about eight months.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 4: Okay something like that, so just keep that in mind.
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 4: It's coming. I don't want to miss out my chance.
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And you can also get our
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 2: merch at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast for
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 2: our glorious items available for purchase at any time.
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: And with that, why don't we get on this local
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: parade float and lie about our wives leaving us.
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: Bye bye, ay,