Latest / Spiritual AF! / EP #83 - Beyond Western Medicine with Dr Rose Holloway

Transcript

EP #83 - Beyond Western Medicine with Dr Rose Holloway · Spiritual AF!

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, welcome back.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: We are on day five now of Back Yourself.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's been such a fun week and we really hope that you're enjoying it.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to mention here, wherever you're listening, try and click follow if you can, because it makes such a big difference so we can continue to reach more people and attract awesome guests.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, feel free to leave us a review if you've enjoyed it as well.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: So today, who've we got day five?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: We are joined by the wonderful Dr.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Rose Holloway, who is a Chinese medicine practitioner and founder of Woodlands Acupuncture and Herbal Health, based in Tazie.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Which is pretty cool.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now Rose has built a career around helping people through a more holistic approach to health.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is really interesting for me because I've never actually experienced Chinese medicine, especially, so I can't wait to find out more.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So firstly, welcome Rose.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm great.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me here today.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very excited.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: It is our pleasure.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And after thinking a little bit about where I'd start here, I feel like we do need to go back to the beginning.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like you don't just plan for when you're young, I'm gonna do have a career in Chinese medicine.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: How did this happen?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start right there.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: And how did you find yourself on this path?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was always I wanted to help people.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a little girl, wanted to be a nurse, um, you know, went through school, um, and then I became a remedial massage therapist, and then just wasn't making the change or the help that I wanted.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um applied for Chinese medicine.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I got in and um yeah, it kind of fell into it and then yeah, really loved it and enjoyed it through the whole process of learning it.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's a little bit more of a backstory, but yeah, I'm sure there is.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there is.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you know, intercorporate, had a corporate world, lived, um, accidentally climbed the corporate ladder, was a PA for a managing director in the board, um, became really unwell in that.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's where I decided that I needed to change and do something different, and that's um yeah, where I fell into Chinese medicine and it was great.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's interesting because you often hear this right with anyone in holistic medicine that they've experienced something themselves and tried the normal route of heading to the GP and figuring things out.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what was your experience?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Did you do the whole like normal route to medicine first before trying and moving into Chinese medicine?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was look, I was uh because I had that such a high role and was only 24, um, I wasn't stressed through my eyeballs and my blood pressure was through the roof.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh, I'm only 24, I don't want to start taking medicine for the rest of my life.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't happy, I was trying to be someone else.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, when I quit that job and then I went to the doctors a week later, my blood pressure returned back to normal in one week.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it was all stress-induced.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but learning through Chinese medicine, I didn't have yeah, and then you know, just doing what I loved meant that I was happy.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I had studied Chinese um remedial massage before I did all of that.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I was always trying to do the health role, but just find my way, my path, my journey.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it took a while, but I got there.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you do have to kind of follow the break room sometimes, don't you?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: To find that real thing that goes just lights you up.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's correct.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for anybody listening right now that is like, what the hell is Chinese medicine?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: How would you describe it?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like it's a whole it is Chinese medicine, is um a whole gamut of different um medicines into one.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it is cultural for in China.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Most people would live that way.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so there is an element.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So my background is I'm a Maltese Australian, so there are elements that are very similar with eating seasonally, eating warm food in winter, um, that sort of thing.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it's acupuncture, it's cupping, it's herbal medicine, it is raw herbs, it is powdered pills, it all comes in different forms.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's acupuncture, it's massage.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it depends on which country you are in.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: They might do some manipulations.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's guasha, which is like scraping where the skin becomes red and the heat is it comes out of the body, and it's food as medicine as well.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've got it all there.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, so it really is everything.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know that.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: You just taught me something new.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, go on.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: The people coming to you, what type of things do they come to solve?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so I treat a lot of women's health.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my uh a lot of people will come in um like birth prep, so getting their body ready for um having a baby.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it could be from the start or it could be just six weeks before their due date, and a lot of women's health, so um menopausal, perimenopausal problems, skin, um, young girls with terrible period pain.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then my other um love and I love treating are the oldies.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So they have kind of you know gone through all of Wismere, they've got all their medicines, and they kind of just need to put up with what whatever ailment they've got going on.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they'll come in and acupuncture can really help them um to make them feel a bit better in their bodies, sleep better, less anxiety, less pain.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Acubulation, you know, like that's my focus is women's health and and older um Australians.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, there's people that are cancer specialists, um, you know, anything that you'd go to a normal Western medicine doctor, you could come to a Chinese med doctor.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: We we do it all apart from emergency medicine and operations.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, going from corporate and following this path, it it's completely different.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Was there that real pivotal moment of one day?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Was it the illness that was suddenly just so bad that you just like that?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is it?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was just so uh, I think boring.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of people describe it that way.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was boring, but it wasn't me.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was unhappy, and it was just like get on the train, go in, blah blah do the work.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just like nothing was I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, it wasn't my calling.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the biggest thing was I just remember applying and thinking, whoa, this is gonna be five years.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna do this?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And my my big sister said, Well, five years is gonna go past either way.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: I went, yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I just did it, and every year it was just fell more and more in love um with Chinese medicine.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's just incredible.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And because I had that massage diploma behind me, I just loved acupuncture, and then you start learning about herbs.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's really a fascinating medicine, and you've got to try it.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I will be booking a session with you, let me tell you.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think of about 10 things that I could probably get advice with.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: In Chinese medicine, it's 10 things, right?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll tell me the 10 things, and that's a pattern, and that's how we'll diagnose.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like you'll come in for your neck pain, and then the next week you'll come in for your gut issues.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's all you're one person.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So whoever you see, whatever Chinese med doctor you'll see, will look at you as a whole person, not like Western medicine, it's all intersections of body systems.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: So important, isn't it?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that taking that step back and seeing it all all of the stuff to figure out what the root cause is.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I know everyone's nodding their head right now as well.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did you study just in Australia or have you traveled around?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was lucky enough to study at RMIT University.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a double bachelor in human biology and Chinese medicine, and part of that was an internship in Nanjing University Hospital in China.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: In China.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I also so I've been to China for study twice, and then in I think second year I did an elective and I was able to go to Beijing um university and study there as well.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was in China for Nanj in Nanjing, um we were there for about four months and we did uh hospital rounds and each ward for about two weeks, and each ward it was incredible.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible experience of actually being on the ground with people that are living this every day.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So each doctor would see about a hundred patients uh before lunch and a hundred patients after lunch.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: See, and there is so they'll come in, they'll do their morning shift, and there's about an hour and a half to two-hour lunch break.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone eats and has a rest.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that is similar, that's Chinese medicine, but it's also, I think, very like that's what happens in Malta, the shops close, and I think across Europe, um, where they have that kind of you know balance a little bit better than in Australia, just work all the whole eight hours or ten hour day.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so we just did all these different wards and got to see so many different case studies.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested to know, has there ever been a moment where you've questioned whether you'd made the right decision going down this path?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I wondered, is this actually going to work out?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Many, many moments.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've uh wobbled and thought, can I still do this Chinese medicine?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should just go and work in a hospital and get a job there.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I wobbled and then I've had always really good people around me to say to bring me back to where I need to go.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was lucky enough uh a couple of years ago, I studied uh neoclassic acupuncture.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got a diploma in that now, and that's a one-needle acupuncture technique.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um Slate, yeah.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my teacher, Dr.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Slate Brewers, has come up, not created this, but uh discovered it, and it's just phenomenal because it's uh you put you do a a diagnosis, you do the palpation of a person, and then you press it's order, it's a quick feedback, um, and you find the right needle for that person on the day, you do the one needle, and that person's pain or whatever they've come in with reduces or goes away, and it's like wow, it's phenomenal.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's like that big aha moment.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've had lots of them through Chinese Med, but that this is so cool, it's just so cool.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even when we study this, and we like a whole bunch of acupuncturists, there'll be 20 of us um earlier this year were in burly heads studying it, and we're just like, Wow, wow, wow.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that I can understand, like, and and every time you're learning something new, I'll see evidence from patients that it's really like ignor reigniting that fire and keeping you on track.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's correct, keeping me on track, yeah.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, on the podcast, we speak to so many different practitioners, and one theme that we constantly see is that people trust their gut feeling and their intuition, and that become kind of their journey, really.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Has there been any times that you can remember a time of having that sign or synchronicity or just trusting your gut?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and has that played a part in your journey?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: When I've wobbled and I thought, oh maybe I should just apply for a nursing degree and actually do what a little Rose wanted to do and become a midwife.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, you know, something else will happen, and I'll get like a really great results with clients.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or um, you know, I'll learn, I'll get this amazing course, I'll have a chat with a friend, do this course, do this neoclassical acupuncture course, and then it just all falls into place.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it just works, and I think on I'm pulled back in line, um, back on my track that I need to be on.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I I am interested to know.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is just my curiosity here, and I feel like everyone wants to know this from your knowledge of Chinese medicine.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are there things that we should do?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'll speak from a woman's perspective, in terms of our eating, our sleeping, everything that you know, if you could like give five tips that will actually help people live a better life, what would that be?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's all through um science at the moment.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that thing of eat your meal and go for a walk.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So eat a meal, okay, 99 steps, live to 100.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's number one.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Don't stop drinking ice cold water.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's really bad for our digestion.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So our digestion likes warmth.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the coldness kind of upsets that balance.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, women probably keep the feet warm, socks on, slippers on, so that coldness doesn't go up into your body, into your uterus, cause all these period problems.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what else?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Soup, soup and more soup.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love soup.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's great for digestion.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe think about uh supplementations.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone takes a whole too many supplementations, and we don't always need them.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, everyone's wants to take uh turmeric because it's good for um you know anti-inflammatory stuff, but it's not good for everyone, and it can be really drying for some people.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um was that five?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: They were all interested.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: We need to eat, yeah, we need to eat seasonally and rest probably more.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you're not sure Granny would have told you, but it is that cultural thing, and like, yeah, I couldn't maybe I should stop, but I keep going on and on.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, it's just eat warm, eat soups, um, you know, just yeah, maybe see a Chinese med doctor, your local Chinese med doctor.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like something we should all do, absolutely.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's really interesting, isn't it?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I love looking at things that are different and out of mainstream.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And Chinese medicine is really accepted these days.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of people go and uh you know, visit people like yourself and have incredible results.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going back to your journey here as well, in terms of you backing yourself here.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Could you give some advice to anyone listening right now that's like, oh, I've always had a dream to do something like that.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: What would you tell them that might help them on their journey?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you just have to do it because one, you could be really great at it, and it's quite a service to the community to be able to help people feel better and heard and listened to.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you just like I I think you know, I used to be called stubborn, so I've used that as my superpower to become quite tenacious and I'll get it done.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard work, but you can get there.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: What other um got me back on track?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And just having good people around you that are unbiased and just get you on the track that you need to be on.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you do need to kind of like explore the wrong path a little bit and go, oh no, that's definitely not the right way for me.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that trial like experimentation sometimes, isn't it?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And knowing when the feeling doesn't feel aligned or where you do feel off track.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, your intuition doesn't lead you down the wrong way ever, it doesn't take you the wrong path and doesn't want the wrong things for you at all.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think so.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great advice, thank you.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you could go back to like the Rose that was just starting out on this adventure, what would you say to her?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Just have a bit more fun.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: It would be so serious.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Instagram and start building.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it'll be okay, it'll work out.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is it was tough.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I started Chinese Med in 2009.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a bit different, but it is very popular now.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's using earse, thanks, TikTok.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, but it's made it accessible, so you can do earseed packs to like I did a whole heap at a birth expo, and people love them because it's a take-home, and you can feel better with just a little gold sticker.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've got some on.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're gonna have to tell me what this is because I've never heard of it.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so it's like a little gold adhesive sticker.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Can you see that?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it and you press it and it just helps calm you down.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: So the ear is a homunculus to the whole body, so that's like a on a point that is like a chilling, calm down point, and then I've got the sub cortex just to help keep me relaxed because I'm nervous.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, that's it.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, these are things that are just so easy because I know about them, but lots of people don't, yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Rose, for anyone listening right now who's like, Oh my god, I need you in my life.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, where can we find you?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And do you offer like things online globally?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us about yourself.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you can find me at woodlandsacupuncture.com.au.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on Facebook and Instagram at drosehollowayacupuncture.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, please come and connect.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love a chat.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, send me an email, DM, whatever it is.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, there will be lots of things coming online.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: E-seeds, face reading.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, Chinese med can do that, so all the different lines mean different things.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I was studying that, so a line from here down can mean really deep trauma.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember looking at, you know, some elders that were around, and I knew their history, and I went, Well, yeah, yep, there were these big lines from family losses.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of study, but it's a lot of work, and it's it's really fun when you you know when you love what you do, right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and I can tell that you are super passionate and obviously you've got so much knowledge.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: We will put all of Dr.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Rose's information in the show notes.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: So please go there and check out what she does and her services and reach out to her and make a booking.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I will be straight after this.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for being here and sharing back yourself journey, Rose.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: We really appreciate it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening and having you.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening at home in the car, wherever you are, thank you.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: What a week of backing yourself.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: It has been super fun just to tune in.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're someone that is thinking about following a dream, uh about going down that crazy path, now let's call it that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just go do it.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Go do it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if you are on social media with us, our Instagram is at spiritual.a.f.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just come and talk to us about it because we'll give you the big push and the nudge to go and do it, and we will back you all the way.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for tuning in, and we will be back again with another episode of Spiritual As Flock.