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TRAILER Introducing Public Good On The Prairies · Public Good

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Shannon Moore.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Hurley.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: And this is Public Good, but on the prairies.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Whoa.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Stephen, what have you been up to since we... used
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to podcast together three years ago, two years ago.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I should be, I feel I
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: should be, uh, have some howling coyote dogs in the
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: background there or something, uh, you know, uh, guitar music,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: folk music or something on the prairies. I've never been
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: to the prairies. So what have I been doing since
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: we last recorded? Obviously not a lot of, obviously not
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of podcasting. Um, I have, uh, returned, uh,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: to a place I was back in 1980, and that
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: is the study of theology. And I am in my
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: last year at Emanuel College at the University of Toronto,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: completing my Master of Divinity. I've just been approved as
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: a candidate for ordained ministry in the United Church of Canada.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: And that has taken up my life. That is where
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I've been. So in leaving Voice Ed Radio, I kind
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: of left in-depth conversations about education. So it is really
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: good to connect with you and Justin and Devin and
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: your team around this project.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: So I'll take a second to introduce the project. And
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: then I wanted to ask you, although you haven't been
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: thinking about education, I'm going to ask you an education question.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: So to introduce the project, Well, surprising nobody, I overplanned.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And as a result, we had originally planned for five episodes,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: but we'll probably have eight to 10. Yeah. So what
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: we did as a team, Melanie Jansen, Devin King, Justin Fraser,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and myself, we sat down and we sort of said like,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: what are the issues that are going on in the
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: prairies right now that we think that need to be
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: talked about? And that we do think that connections can
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: be made to other contexts. And although you and I
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: already did a series around parental rights when public good
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: was just ending, we have... taken up that topic again
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: of parental rights. And we actually have three distinct episodes.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: We'd only planned one or two, but now it's become
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: three distinct episodes because our conversations with our guests just
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: went on for a while. And I wanted to stay
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: true to what you and I had done with public good,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: which is keeping those long form interviews. I repeatedly heard from,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: from listeners that they like hearing a long interview where
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: we let the interviewee talk and, and not interjecting too much, um,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Of course, it's a conversation, but really giving them a
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: platform to actually share their expertise and their views. So
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: parental rights is a theme. Science of reading is a theme.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: And Melanie Jansen is going to do some work with
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: us on this podcast to show the connections between parental
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: rights and science of reading. We have an episode on
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: teacher competence discourse, and what that is is really the
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: ways in which provincial governments, Alberta and Manitoba specifically, are
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: sort of dictating in advance what it means to be
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: a good teacher and placing all of the ideas of
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  Speaker 1: teaching on the teachers' bodies. We have a discussion of
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: the myth of neutrality and the ways neutrality is being
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: weaponized in different contexts across the prairies, and I think
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: you could say across Canada and beyond. And we have
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: an episode about school boards because we are hoping to
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: get these out before school board elections happen in a
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: few provinces. Manitoba is one of those provinces. And we
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: want people to be thoughtful about what is the role
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of the school board? How are school boards under attack
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: in this moment? And what would be lost if we
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: lose school boards? They are an important part of the
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: public school ideal. And so while people may be not
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: thinking maybe don't feel represented by their current school boards,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: or they feel that there's some ridiculous stuff happening on
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  Speaker 1: school boards. We're sort of making a plea for the
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: fact that school boards are still important. So those are
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: our planned episodes. And I also think that since recording
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: with you, it doesn't really matter where I am, whether
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I'm in a union context or speaking with other educators
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: or in higher ed, people continue to talk to me
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  Speaker 1: about the podcast. Although they love American podcasts about education,
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  Speaker 1: they really feel that Public Good filled something that was missing,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: which is what's going on in the Canadian context. And
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: so a few of us decided we wanted to do
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: a franchise, I guess. That would mean we're paying you,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I guess, for this, but a franchise of Public Good
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: called Public Good on the Prairies. And as a result,
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  Speaker 1: I have asked Justin Fraser to join me as my co-host.
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  Speaker 1: So Justin, welcome. Would you like to introduce yourself to
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: the Public Good audience?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, so.
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  Speaker 3: My name is Justin. My pronouns are he, him. I'm
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  Speaker 3: so excited to be joining the Public Good podcast team
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  Speaker 3: for the series of Public Good on the Prairies. Just quickly,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: a little bit about me. I was a music teacher
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  Speaker 3: in Winnipeg, Manitoba for a number of years. And more specifically,
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  Speaker 3: I mostly taught grade seven to 12 guitar and digital
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: music production there. But after living my entire life in
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: the Prairies, I just moved to BC a couple of
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: years ago. I'm currently a PhD student at the And
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: there my research focuses on the intersection of music education
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  Speaker 3: and the neoliberalization of public education. I also want to
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  Speaker 3: say that like the first two seasons of Public Good
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  Speaker 3: were really helpful to me as an educator, as a researcher.
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  Speaker 3: So I'm thrilled to be part of the team going forward.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm especially thankful for Stephen's blessing to step into
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  Speaker 3: this co-host role with you, Shannon.
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  Speaker 1: Stephen, I wanted to start with a question with you
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  Speaker 1: is like, Since we stopped recording a few years ago,
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  Speaker 1: you must still think about education a little bit. Have
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: there been points where you've thought to yourself, wow, I
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: wish I could record an episode on this?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting you say that because I'm back in education,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: higher ed now, as opposed to K-12, I'm thinking about
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  Speaker 2: education all the time, but from more of a pedagogical perspective.
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  Speaker 2: And the idea that still resonates with me is the
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: public perspective. in public good. And, you know, I'm attending
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: a public university. I'm still connected with some of the
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: issues that we've talked about, especially around higher ed. And
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  Speaker 2: I think of the work that Mark Spooner has been doing.
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  Speaker 2: And I was at a session of his. He came
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: to Toronto and introduced a panel conversation. So I'm still
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: connected with thinking about, mainly about what it means to
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: maintain a commitment to public.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: One of the things, of course, that we're doing through
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: this podcast is looking at, although it may manifest uniquely
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: in Alberta or Saskatchewan or Manitoba, that the ways that
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: it's all connected, right? So although we might isolate discussions
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: in Manitoba, we'll always try and say, how is this
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  Speaker 1: connected to the broader context across Canada and the ways
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: in which public education and the public good is being
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  Speaker 1: undermined across Canada? And so I wanted to have you
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  Speaker 1: on for our introductory episode so that people know that
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  Speaker 1: I have your blessing in going on with this franchise
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  Speaker 1: and that Justin has your blessing in taking your seat.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: I did want to say, you mentioned something about being paid.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not, there's no franchise fee. I just want listeners
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  Speaker 2: to know that.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: There's no money in podcasting, at least educational podcasting. We
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: do this all for free and out of the goodness.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I see it as a form of activism.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't tell Justin that before he got involved,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: how much free labor was involved in podcasting. I think
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: he's realizing that now.
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  Speaker 3: There's a lot of free labor here.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. A lot of free labor. You've sat across from
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  Speaker 1: me for a full season of Public Good and then
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  Speaker 1: a couple of sub-series afterwards. Do you have any advice
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  Speaker 1: for Justin as he takes over as co-host of the
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Public Good on the Prairies or just advice for working
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  Speaker 1: with me?
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  Speaker 2: Don't talk over Shannon. Ever.
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  Speaker 1: Yep.
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  Speaker 2: Never.
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  Speaker 1: Never.
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  Speaker 2: Well, actually, don't talk over anyone, I guess, is just
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  Speaker 2: a piece of technical advice. But I think what I
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  Speaker 2: found to be really helpful, and I think, Shannon, you
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  Speaker 2: were my first and longest running co-host, was that the
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  Speaker 2: dynamic is important. Absolutely. Just be yourself and let other
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  Speaker 2: people hear who you are. And I'm sure, Justin, you'll
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: have no problem doing that. And, you know, one of
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  Speaker 2: the things that happened in the early episodes is that
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  Speaker 2: we tended to agree with each other. We tended to
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: have similar commitments and similar passions around this. If there's
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: a way of creating a little bit of a buzz,
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  Speaker 2: a dynamic that may be where you're not agreeing with
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: each other all the time. And Justin, you probably have
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: more to push back on than I would because your
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  Speaker 2: knowledge base is likely much broader. Shannon does a lot
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  Speaker 2: of research and it prompted me to want to do
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  Speaker 2: a lot of research as well. And so I would say,
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  Speaker 2: let Justin shine through. I'm not saying that to Shannon,
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  Speaker 2: I'm just saying it.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: To Justin. So I wondered if you could put your
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: interviewer hat back on and maybe ask us a little
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  Speaker 1: bit about what our plans are.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I'm fascinated by, uh, public good on the prairies.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm wondering what's your, what's your plan? Is there
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  Speaker 2: a narrative arc that you've decided on or that you've
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  Speaker 2: planned ahead? Uh, is if I were listening to your
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: podcast episode one, would I get a sense of what's
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: coming next or? Or are these discrete episodes that stand alone?
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  Speaker 1: Well, that has been actually a big discussion that we've
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  Speaker 1: had is, you know, how do we separate these episodes
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  Speaker 1: has been very difficult for us. So while they may
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  Speaker 1: be an episode that's about the weaponized of neutrality, or
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: they may be an episode about parental rights and how
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: that's manifesting in current legislation in Alberta, or they may
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: be about science of reading, despite the fact that we're
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: trying to make distinct topics for the podcast. What we
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  Speaker 1: found in some of the interviews that we have done
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  Speaker 1: already or some of the conversations we've had already is
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  Speaker 1: the interrelatedness of these topics. And so I actually think
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  Speaker 1: Justin and I are having a more difficult time separating
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  Speaker 1: the topics that we put into these discrete little boxes
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  Speaker 1: when we plan the episodes. But what we're finding is
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  Speaker 1: a lot of overlap. I don't know, Justin, if you
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: wanted to pick up on that.
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  Speaker 3: These through lines are complex. It and all entangled with
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  Speaker 3: one another. There's absolutely no parsing these issues out, but
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  Speaker 3: they're all connected, which I think is what has made,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: as Shannon said, this quite difficult in some ways. But
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  Speaker 3: it's also difficult from, let's say, an analytic perspective in
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  Speaker 3: how do we actually identify what's going on in the prairies?
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  Speaker 3: How do we hone in and focus and target these
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: things when they are all connected or when they have
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: different points that they're arising from? And it's been a
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: real challenge, but a real delight to have these conversations
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: and really try to dig into what's happening with public
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: education in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta.
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  Speaker 2: Justin, I wondered, I know why this is important to Shannon.
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  Speaker 2: Why is this important to you? What's at stake for you?
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  Speaker 3: This is a great question. Stephen, you talked at the
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  Speaker 3: beginning of our conversation here a few minutes ago that
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  Speaker 3: you've never been to the prairies. And I find that
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: fascinating and completely unsurprising. The prairies are flyover provinces. We
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: have BC, we've got Ontario, and we've got Quebec. And
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  Speaker 3: for me, I've grown up in the prairies. I've lived
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: in all three prairie provinces for a number of years,
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: most of that time in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, but a
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: few years in Alberta. And so I still have family
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: all over the prairies. And we often feel forgotten about
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: in the prairies, whether that's just because of a population perspective.
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  Speaker 3: You know, everyone thinks that Toronto is the center of
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: the universe in Canada. And I think there's a little
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: bit of a, I don't want to say resentment there,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: but there's a bit of that feeling in the prairies.
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  Speaker 3: And so I've really appreciated this opportunity to do public
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: good on the prairies because the prairies are unique. They're
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: special in so many different ways, in good and bad,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: if I can say. There is a community ethos in
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: the prairies that I don't think you get in other places.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: And at the same time, Or on the flip side
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: of that, I think, for example, that settler colonialism looks
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: different on the prairies. And as a result, public education
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: looks different on the prairies than it does elsewhere. And
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: privatization looks different in these places, just to use that
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: one example. And so I am a child of the prairies.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: And I love these places. I live in BC right now.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: That's where I'm going to school. But you can take the...
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: the boy out of the prairies, but you can never
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: take the prairie out of the boy. And so here
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: I am engaging in these really incredible conversations with academics, activists,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: and scholars who are rooted in these communities, these really unique,
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  Speaker 3: fabulous communities, doing incredible work, pushing against, unfortunately, some of
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: the most fervent leading attacks on public education that we're
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: seeing today. Almost as a bit of a, that the
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: prairies are a bit of a test ground for what
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: can we get away with in terms of maybe privatizing
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: education or maybe parental rights movement or all these different
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: other issues that we're tackling on this series.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I have to say that I am really looking
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: forward to listening to this. I'm a little bit jealous.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you must have some FOMO, Stephen.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so. Because it's a lot of
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: the behind the scenes conversation that I know that fuels this.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: So I will assume that those conversations are taking place
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: as I listen. And I may even try to imagine
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: what those conversations may have been like.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: And we will be imagining that you're part of the conversation.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I hear you in my ear all of the time.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. And thank you for taking this on
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: and keeping the love going on the public good.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us for this intro. Thank you.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you.