Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 898: Marijuana Users Win In the Supreme Court, Sicilian Curses, North Carolina Elk Hunt

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Ep. 898: Marijuana Users Win In the Supreme Court, Sicilian Curses, North Carolina Elk Hunt · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: This week on the news show Steve trespasses in Sicily,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Brody runs his first marathon and it looks like dope
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: smokers can now get a gun without lying about it.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: A logging project that might not actually be about logging.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Oregon finds a way to do something that more states
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: need to figure out, which is finding additional sources for
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: wildlife funding and habitat new public lands in Ohio and Utah.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: North Carolinians are going to get to go elk hunting.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Hunting rights are getting an unexpected boost in Massachusetts and more.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: But first our news. I just got back from Sicily.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: M That's why Cicily's on the mother. My great grandparents
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: are from Sicily. They're Sicilians. So there's a couple things
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: that went on as a kid is my main takeaways
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: from this trip. My dad had a curse like if
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: you hit your if you hit your thumb with a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: hammer sort of situation. He would say, well, I remembered
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: to be I remember it to be votana be shaku.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I have gone to a lot of Italians over the
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: years and said does this mean anything to you if
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I say votana be shaku, And their eyes like no,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. Once I was in Sicily,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't appreciate the difference between Sicilian and Italian. Huge
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: difference between Sicilian and Italian. We had a tour guy, like,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: you know, doing like a little tour around an old
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: town and I'm chatting the tour lady up at the
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: end of the tour and I say, maybe can help
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: me with something. Does it mean anything to you if
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I say votana be shaku and she says, do you
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: maybe mean botana rue shake? I'm like, that's it. And
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: her response was, Wow, that's a big one. I'm not
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: gonna tell you what that is. I'll write it down
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: for you and you can look it up later. Hmmm,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: bad words, terrible. Then I was talking to a guy,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: a youngster, thirty year old guy, long hair man bun.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I said to him, I'm telling him the story. He's Sicilian.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I tell him and he's like, wow, Yeah, that's a
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: big one. It's a big one. Commonly used it would
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: be what you're saying is that there's a lady of
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the night with an equine clientele. I'll leave it at that. Wow.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: But it's yeah, terrible. No, wonder if you said that
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: in Italian, and he would say that in a moment,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: hit a stumb with a hammer, like instead of saying mother,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: you say that horse. Yep. The other thing to happen.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: This is the this is one of the this is another.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: This isn't our sisley highlight. So we go to oh.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Another one is that we've been I've been saying my
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: name wrong my whole life. It's Renell. I've I've been
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: saying it right all along. We go to this little
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: dinky town. There's these we're on this volcanic island and
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: here and there is like these little valleys and sometimes
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: it'd be a placed where the volcanic crater like blew
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: a wall out, and when it blew a wall out
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: and create like a little spot, you can put a
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: town there and grow some grapes. Some of these places
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: just have one road going in and a road and
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: you know that's it. One road goes down in there.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: So we have this. We have a driver and he
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: takes us down in this little town not far from Renella,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: the town of Renella. But we go down in this
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: little village and we kind of want to walk, so
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: he's like, well, just walk and I'll pick you up
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: down in town. So so my wife and my kids
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: are winding all around and we eventually get where we
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: just never run in to the guy, like, there's not
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a lot to do, and it's very it's rural, and
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: we wind up there's these rock walls and there's this road.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: The road has signs. We come to where the road
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: has these signs, and I don't know Italian, but I
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: know enough to know that these signs say private road,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: and I confirm it's private road, like in eight different
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: ways private road. We're sitting there talking and this one
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: old timer who's got like he's just got a pair
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of shorts, no shirt, no shoes. He comes out of
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: the bushes and he's kind of wondering what we're doing.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: And then I see him turn a ball valve to
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: like irrigate something and go back into the bushes. My
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: wife gets the driver on the phone. We clear up
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: where we're at. The driver comes down. We climb in
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: the driver's car. He drives into through the signs. I
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: say to my kids out loud, I say, I guess
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: it's okay to drive on a private road here. Because
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I have a very familiar anxiety from growing up when
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: he got stuck driving on a private road. We start
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: driving down a private road and also out of the bushes,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: here's this other old timer mad and I can't speak
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: any Italian, but I've been in this situation, so I
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: know exactly what's happening. The guy comes to the window
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: and it's basically he's basically MoMA mia, you know, he's
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: like doing all the Italian hand gestures and he's pointing,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: and without knowing any words, I know exactly what's transpiring.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: The driver is trying to take a like what's the
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: big deal? He's trying to do like a what's the
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: big deal? And the guy's trying to do like I
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: can tell he's like, this is the tenth time this week?
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: How many signs do I got to put up? But
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I can't understand any of it, but I'm so familiar
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: with the situation. And the guy's doing a like super cash.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: The driver it's like trespassing is the universal language.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Yes it was. It was the best, and I and like,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: normally I'm high. I'm like i'd be anxious in that conversation,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: but I'm just a dude paying for a ride, So
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I'm like totally divorced from it. And it was the
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: first time I could ever be in a fight, a
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: trespassing fight. Had My heart rate never went up.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: There's no consequences for you.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: No, it was great just to be there and see it.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: We pull away and they got us to speak much English.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: We finally get out of there. We go back out
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: and turn around and go back out and he looks
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: over his shoulder. He goes, no problem. How do you
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: pronounce your name? Now? You know how Elliott Cow's feels?
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: No, no, everybody mispronouncing the name.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: Now those were your highlights? What would your kids say?
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: The highlight was going We went and watched a We
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: went and took a boat out and watched the volcano.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: We were up for a couple hours. It rupts all
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: the time. Stromboli, stromboli. You can swim, lay on your back,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: watch it, shoot and live out. How is the food
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: hit and miss dude, I hate to say it. I
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: hate to say it, hit and miss, hit and miss.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: No, I mean not every Italian probably makes great Italian.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Hit and miss. Yeah, some real highlights. Marinated anchovies not
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: like salted salad. It like a marinated anchoby. That's good.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Some of the stuff is you know, hit miss, hit miss.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: That's all. Brody ran a marathon.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: I did my first one this past weekend.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Give me your biggest takeaway.
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: Hold on before though, before you get the takeaway already,
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: I want to know if my little U message of
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: inspiration at five o'clock in the morning to that, Well,
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: I don't feel like.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: I didn't feel like you were inspiring me. I felt
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: like you were trying to disagree with my strategy, so
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't I went into that. What was your question?
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, well, like, what's your biggest takeaway? You ran? How
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: many miles?
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Is that? Twenty six point two? But you always Here's
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: the thing is, you don't know this because you don't run.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: You never run twenty six point two miles in a marathon.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: It's always like twenty six point five or twenty six
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: point seven because you're not running in a straight line,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: so your watch is lying to you the whole time.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: So you're like, oh shit, I'm almost done.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: You're doing an extra half mile a zigzagging, Yeah, try
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: to go round people, Yeah, go to get a drink.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: But it was like it was cold and wet, but
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: it was very great, positive experience, Like I loved it.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Did you have a number in your head?
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I did the number.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: I did well close close. I was a little slower
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: than than than the number. But the main thing was
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: is I was like using this as h kind of
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: a dress rehearsal for the one I'm going to do
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: in September?
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Was that one different?
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Because like I was using this one to learn how
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: to do it, because like you're in like the longest
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: training run I did was twenty miles, so like you're
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: in no man's land for a while during the races
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: as far as you ever ran, yeah, you never run
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: the actual I mean most people don't run the actual
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: distance in training. But like I figured out fueling and
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: hydration and pacing it. Like so that was all perfect
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: and I didn't hit it. Many people hit what's called
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the wall between eighteen and twenty. They get hurt, they
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: cramp up, they fuelings messed up, and they just they're dying. Right,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: that didn't happen, So, like that was the coolest thing.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: A couple big takeaways was I learned an awesome trick,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: which is you know those silicone straws, reusable straws.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, take the.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so the aid stations, there's people like handing
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: down Dixie cups of like gatorade and water and stuff,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: and trying to drink one of those while you're running.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Sucks.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Like it's like hard, you can want to choke on it,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: you spill it. There's a trick where you bring you
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: cut one of those silicon straws in half and just
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: shove it in a pocket, but then you grab that cup,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: throw the cup, put the strawway.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Oh really it was pleasant, man, that's your takeaway. Other
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: takeaways twenty six miles, that's what you got. That's what
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: you came straw user.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, other takeaway as middle aged lady runners are just
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: like machines, man. Really, they just freaking go.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Just better endurance. Something happened younger than.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: I think, Like it could be younger, they could be older.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Do you regard yourself as a middle aged guy runner still?
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not an old.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: Age yet yet ten years.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So yeah, like they just they just go. Man Like,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I paced off of a lot of middle aged women
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: runners because they're just very steady. So yeah, I'm gonna
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: do another one. It was great. I loved it. It's
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: five five plus months of training, which was the like.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: The you like gave up fishing in order to train
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and turkey on. I don't really understand that. Isn't there
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: a way to have both?
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I did a little but both. That's why I kind
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: of like made the focus on this one. But then
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I wasn't gonna do the one in September, and now
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it so.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: You can hear like a big marathon guy, I don't
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: know to.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Do another one. We'll see. It's not as far as
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: the honest runs far.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: Un did one more question? Did you ever hit I
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: know you didn't hit the wall, but did you ever
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: hit what they.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Call it the pain cave? Sometimes?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: No, Like I definitely was feeling it the last ten k,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: but like in a good way. Yeah, the last couple
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: three miles, I was like that, it's good. Maybe that
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: means I didn't go hard enough.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Were listening to some tunes like Stroker RaSE. I listened
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: to tunes and.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I forgot my headphone, so I had to use my kids,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: and only one of them was working and that went
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: dead a couple hours into the race, so I just
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: row dogged as they say.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can picture save and strokeer race for like
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: the last stroke.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: In the morning, I texted Brody. I said, is it
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: today or yesterday? He's like, man, I'm about to go.
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: I was like, all right, you ready. He goes, yeah,
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: I'm just gonna run like a you know, smooth assistant steady.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: I said, screw that. I said, empty the tank, man,
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: let's go, and I just did not reply and he did,
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: empty the tank. You went, ran another super race, Yeah,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: ran another hondo. When the Big Horn Mountains of Wyoming,
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: which your calls around your neck, no, I didn't bring
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: my calls that you No, I did. Uh. When you finish,
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: you actually get a belt buckle, which I forgot to bring.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: But they give you like this jacket which I'll probably
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: never wear again. It says big Horn Ultra run all
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: over and I got this hat.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Wear it again.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: So you know, when you get a hat a run
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: one hundred miles, you gotta you gotta sports sported around.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Is it different than the last time you ran on
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: hundred miles?
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: Yes, easier course by a lot. Like in the Crazy Mountains,
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: you run on a lot of rocks shale, like just rocks,
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: like we call them babyhead rocks, and they're just all
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: all over the place, which when you're twenty miles in
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: and you're fresh, it's no big deal.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: A little severed baby heads all the way. Yeah, it's
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: a good metaphor because we all know what that's like.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: But at eighty miles, those things just are brutal because
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: you just can't you can't run on top of them,
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: and then it takes a lot of focus to run
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: between them, and it just gets really hard, really quickly.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: This trail was like just smooth dirt pretty much the
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: entire way.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: If you get way into this, have you kicked around
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: doing the Tussic one hundred and doing a Tundra hundred?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: No?
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Is that a thing? You just made that up? Not
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: just made it up, but you could be that could
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: be your deal. The Tussic one hundred, where it's one
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: hundred miles of TONI he's done two one hundred mile races.
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: I'm wondering when you think the threshold is where he'd
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: get really into it, Like, well, what's.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: The most times you've heard of anybody running one hundred miles?
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: I ran with a guy wearing a kilt, which at
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: first you're like, come on, guy wearing a kilt. I'm
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: like oh, I'll chat this guy thing. Yeah, he says,
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: he's said it's chafing is much better in the kill.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: I think he said he was up into the teens
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: now of hundreds done.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Why did he just wear a skirt? Yeah, you could
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: wear a skirt like a tennis skirt. Yeah, totally actually
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: need to be plaid and made a wool. Uh.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: He actually wears one made by that company? Is it
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: five to eleven tactical?
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Make it like an adventure killed? Yeah? Did you?
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: But did you hear about how it came about? It
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: was like it was an April's fools Day thing and
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: so many people were like, oh, no, we want a
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: camouflage kill that like every couple of years now they
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: make or running these kilts anyways, that dude was running
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: his seventy six one hundredth mile er.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: What's that times one hundred? When we were seven six
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: hundred miles of races? Yeah, he'd do the Toustic one hundred, dude,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: he probably could. Yeah, his goal is to get to
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: trademark one hundred.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Of them in a couple more years.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the under one, the Tusic one hundred.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: I think getting into it is I'm approaching that because
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: I'm you. You finished one, and almost the next day you're like,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: what I could have done better? Like that's all you
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: think about, Like, oh I had good parts and I executed,
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: But all you can dwell on is like, oh, I
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: had three to four hours of nausea, where like I
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: felt like I was just gonna puke the entire time
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: and like everything shuts down. I wasn't moving. Like what
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: if I had those three to four hours back, how
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: well would my time be?
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: Just what could have I done?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: So this all makes me jealous because it makes me
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: feel like a cupcake. Dude.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, honestly, it's not that hard. I mean, because you
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: can't remember. They call it ultra running, but it's more
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: like ultra power hiking with some running thrown in. I mean, sure,
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: there's the elites that might actually run the entire course.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: The guy set a course record that won and I
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: think he went just under eighteen hours and it took
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: me thirty. So he did it almost twice. As I
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: didn't sleep any on this.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: One bit, not one bit. Wait, when you're training, though,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: are you training one bit? Now? Are you training power
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: hiking or are you training running both?
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: I mean I just can't run up like our local
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: hill here that we always run the m and then
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: up towards Bald Mountain. I mean, you can maybe make
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: it fifty yards running on those steep sections, but eventually
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: you're just you know, your power.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: That's my wife found that mouse. Yeah that's right, that's right,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: she was running. She was blown right past it.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: So yeah, you're trying to always push what that like,
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: what your slowest pace is, right, that's what makes your
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: pace faster throughout the whole thing. And to do that,
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: you train by doing intervals or a little short runs
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: up you know, mountains, and so hopefully in a race,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: your base level power hike ends up being faster than
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: it once was.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: So oh, congratulations voice, Yeah.
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: Thanks it it felt it felt good. Yeah, but I'm
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: ready to do another one for sure, I am. Uh
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: was it reason I was excited to do this run
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: in Wyoming Big Horn Mountains are in Wyoming is because
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: I also drew a ELK and ELK tag in Wyoming
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: covided ELK tag.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: We were like supposed to be like all buddies on
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Wyoming tags and stuff, and you went like totally rogue,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: and I do know you went rogue.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: Well, I realized that, especially on a hunt like this,
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: it's better that, like, if you want, you can come
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: and join me and help me out, and then when
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: you draw the tack guys trying to hunt, no, because
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: then it's just gonna it splits your time and it
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: gets complicated and.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Too much pressure, at least for me.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I have sixteen years of applying invested in
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: this and now guts split this hunt with Steve.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do that.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I need him cramp in my style.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: No, but if you want to come class for me
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: and help me find a big bull, I'd.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Be superoked on. I got something I gotta do.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: Speaking of elcome, and you will take his way points
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: when he's done.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I can't believe that you guys haven't used this. No,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: somehow I had.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: This is the Kivin bugle tube collapsible bugle.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Did you take that on your run because it collapses? No?
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: No, But if you didn't see it beforehand, Steve actually
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: thought that it.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Was a water bottle. I thought it was for technical hydration.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: That's roughly roughly where's that camera there? It is, that's
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: roughly the size it is.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So you can put it in a water bottle holder.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it fits right in that pocket real nice.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: And so when you don't need it. The thing about
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: when it when you have a full when when you're
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: carring around something that's always out like this, like I
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: always have to have a little bungee or string, like.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: For the jackasses at home, you should explain it. You're
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: holding an elk bugle tube.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, did I not say that?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: We haven't covered that?
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Right off?
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: A collapsible bugle tube.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: And when it when you when I'm normally running with
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: a you know, a full length one that just stays
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: like this, you gotta have some sort of attachment and
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: you sling it over your shoulder for most of the
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: time when you're on an l cunt for let's say
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: twelve hours day dawn until dusk, Right, you're only actually
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: l cunting for two hours of it where you're actually
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: probably gonna be using your bugle too. Maybe you pull
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: it out midday once and blow on it, see if
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: you get a response.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: Uh, So I've been using this for two years. I
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: had a prototype two years ago and then this thing's
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: already been out for a while. So I had the
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: same version that you could have last year in my
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: pack and yeah, it's just nice and tidy because you
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: don't need to have some string, you know, looped around
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: your neck. You just tuck it into your water bottle
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: pocket on your pack and when you need it.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Can you tell the difference with the sound, No, not
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: at all. The sound doesn't sound collapsible.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: You guys tell me. I think it sounds great, man.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: The people sounds pretty good. I think my headphones sounded good.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: Anyways, that's the kive in Bugle two from Fell. Check
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: it out. I'll be running it this fall, my super bitch, And.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: So did you. I don't want to give away details,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: but did you like feel like you were kind of
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: scouting while you ran or just kind of more getting
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a flavor for the air? Flavor flavor for the range,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: flavor for the range.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: I'm like, within a couple hundred miles of Okay where
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: I'll be hunting, they could.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Feasibly wander over that way, like you know, you're rolling
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: like that. They will.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: You run one hundred.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: Miles in Wyoming and then you kill the biggest bull
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: of your life in Wyoming the same year.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. Yeah, just because it's my favorite thing, dude,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Yanni knows how to make a noise of an ELK
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: real far away. Listen. Hm, that's one way off. I
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: love that man. You're like was that he's close enough
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: to go though. Uh oh, this is a major correction,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: because we really kind of screwed something up. I was
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: all shooting my mouth off about New Mexico's landowner tag program,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and the guy wrote in he was riled up very rightfully.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: So, yes, rightfully so, but not just in an axe
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: grinding kind of way.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: No.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: No, he was trying to do the good thing for humanity.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: He wasn't just trying to settle a score. He just
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: came in with the correction. So he's gonna tell you
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: about his correction. Here we go.
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: It's truncated, but you'll get the idea, he writes in.
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: For anyone unfamiliar with e PLUS or the ELK Private
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: land Use System, it's New Mexico's landowner ELK Authorization program.
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: One thing that makes New Mexico confusing is that people
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: often talk about e PLUS as though it's one program
• 21:34
  Speaker 6: with one set of rules.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: It is not. The primary management zone is where nearly
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: all of the conversations surrounding unit wide authorizations take place.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: It's also where most of New Mexico's elkhunting opportunities exist.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Within that zone. Qualifying ranches have two enrollment options, ranch
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: only and unit wide. Ranch only authorizations work pretty much
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: as people assume. The authorization is tied to a single ranch,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: The hunter is limited to it, and the landowner can
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: try rolls access. When a ranch voluntarily enrolls as unit wide,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: it earns the ability to receive and sell unit wide
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: authors as. This is where it starts to get important.
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, this is where you guys went wrong. They allowed
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: the hunter to legally hunt public land throughout the game
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: management unit and every other unit wide ranch within that unit,
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: and any other private property where permission has been granted.
• 22:20
  Speaker 6: In exchange, the ranch has to allow access to every
• 22:24
  Speaker 6: hunter holding a valid ELK license for that unit, with
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: the exception of those ranch only license holders. That includes
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: hunters who purchased a unit wide authorization from a completely
• 22:34
  Speaker 6: different ranch and hunters who drew an ELK for that
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: unit through New Mexico's public draw.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: See I've read this three times. That didn't get the
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: public draw part. Yes, yep, exactly, So, you guys made
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: it out like they're just getting away with murder and
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: they're not. Well that would come on? Was that much?
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: This is my segment, And I skated through without anybody
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: pointing the finger at me because I probably said, Sam, I.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Want to say the same thing over. You know, some
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: people get this because what we were talking about is
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: is I I said. A few years ago, I bought
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: a I bought a unit wide landowner ELK tag in
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: New Mexico. A thing I forgot is that it was
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: pointed out to me that that ranch has no ELK
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: right like this, You're not gonna you can go hunt
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: it all. You're not gonna find an out there. I
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: had no idea that anyone that gets those can hunt
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: any ranch that gets and sells unit wide tags. So
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: when you go and say I want some unit wide
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: tags to sell, you're really open in your land up
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: to a lot of not just people that bought landowner tags,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: but dudes. It drew the units.
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a thing that came up was like how
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: good are those ranches?
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Though? That can't answer? Yeah that I can't answer, like
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: our lot, like our are in this area? Is there
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: ever a dude dude, here'd be the question. Maybe the
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: same guy can write in, are you aware of any
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: ranchers who have boku elk on their ranch during season
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and do unit wide tags? I think he said in
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: his email he says, he says I don't do it. Yes,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: So that leads me to believe he's got elk, I think.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: But I think he said he had hunted.
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: Yes, he had hunted other ranches when he drew a
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: tag through the public draw. He had hunted ranches that
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: had gotten unit wide tags. And he was like, use
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: that access opportunity himself, and.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he pointed out that he doesn't put his
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: own ranch in it. Now, my question would be, and
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: this is a great letter, my question to him would be,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: are you doing it because you don't want dudes running
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: around on your place? Or is it something different? I
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: don't know. He also talked about his place that E
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: plus is not perfect. He just had a mischaracterization of it.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: No gross mischaracterization that was that was a omission. Yep,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: it was being wrong. We're we're considering bringing back the
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: correction segment. That's a great correction that would have won phenomenal.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Should have sent them I failed to mention Jim Heffelfingers
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: here today, He quiet, I haven't seen somebody in a while.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: See, we if Montana were to propose something similar to
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: this E plus, seems like we kind of have a
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: similar situation where it could help people out that are
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: like own a bunch of land. They want tags on
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: the re regular and it would help put some pressure
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: on these lands to move the ALC around. I don't know,
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: would you guys support it?
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's laying it out. As he's laying it out, Yes.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: Transferable tags because ninety percent, I mean, I believe ninety
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: percent of these tags are not the unit wide tags.
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: So I think most most of the e plus tags
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: are the ranch only tag.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I bought a unit wide yeah, hunted public land and
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: was told that there's no I didn't go look, but
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I was told by not by the guy, but by
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: other people, like there's no ELK on that place. Yeah.
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: I'm I'm very leery of setting a precedent of transferable
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: tags that are owned by private landowners.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Would I say yes? I should have said, like, I
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: don't know if it led to If it led as
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: if it led to net access increase, then I'd be
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: like let's talk.
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: I'm going to go in charge. I'm going to go further.
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: I said I was leary of it. I'm I'm adamantly
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: opposed to it.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: That was my recommendation at the end of the segment,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: as I was saying, I'm not condemning what they do,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: and all these places have their own histories and how
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: they came up. But I was saying, if I lived
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: in a state and we didn't have transferable landowner tags.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: I think my suggestion was if one were living in
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a state that doesn't currently have them, and someone was
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: proposing changing the status quo in order to make transferable tag,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I would say, uh.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I would not trade block management for this system.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: No way.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: I think they also have a block management system in
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: New Mexico.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: I don't know anything about Jim. You must have something
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: to say about this.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: I spend all my time with my sons and my
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: dad Honting in Arizona. I'm not that familiar with even
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: next door in their system.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: She does have something to say about it. Another piece
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: of listener email, real quick, this is just a this
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: is just a heartwarming story. He says, a few weeks ago,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: you guys were talking on the news show about Minnesota
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: sales tax for outdoor recreation, habitat water and arts. I
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: just wanted to share a little story about it. What
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: we're referring to is uh, Minnesota developed an alternate funding mechanism,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: which was a it's like a percentage of a penny
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: of sales tax that goes toward wildlife work. And they're
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: they got a lot of money doing great stuff with it,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: including buying a lot of new public land. Anyways, he says,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: my dad was huge on getting people to vote for it.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: He had hundreds of signs that he gave people and
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: helped put them in people's yards. He was very excited
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: to see that bill get passed. My dad like any
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: good old Dutchman. That's his racist thing, not mine. You know,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: the Dutch in their signs. Jeez. Here's what my dad
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: knew to be true about He called them Hollanders. Didn't
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: like them nothing.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: He didn't like them.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: He knew that if you went to a Hollanders yard sale,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: they would overcharge to the point where it wasn't even
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: worth going to a Hollanders yard sale. He'd be like,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: yard sale, Hollanders, I'll pass no deals, no deals to
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: be had there. So he's saying, my dad, like any
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: good old Dutchman, didn't get rid of the signs after
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: the election, and over this last seven teen years he's
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: been using them for all kinds of things. He used.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: He uses his signs to pattern his shotgun. He included
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: photos where he's got his shot up sign and normally
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: when someone shoots the signs for something totally different, but
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: this is a guy, this is the owner of the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: sign shooting.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: His side recycle.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: He patterns the shotgun with his old signs. He stretches
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: turkey fans with his own signs. When he needs a
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: clean fish, he cleans fish on his own his uh
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: old signs. The last election, even though it's not even
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: up for a vote anymore, he put his signs back
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: out again like that.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I like that a lot. Put him in your neighbor's yard.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Sort of victory. Yeah, he stuck him back out just
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: to remind people about how they did vote to pass it.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: That stuff's great. Uh oh yeah.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: When we did our yard sign that one hanging up.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: There, it's a great sign. I use that for stuff.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: Remember we were at first we're going to do one
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: side that was going to be a target that you
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: could get shoot.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I don't remember it, but I've used that material a
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: handful of times. I wish I had a stack of
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: little Oh they're great targets. I wish I had the
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: foresight to do that. Anyways, dope smokers they can buy
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: guns now they can.
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been a I mean, if you're paying attention
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: to the news, there's a lot of action at the
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: Supreme Court right now, as there is uh this time
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: of year.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they've been tearing a new one down there at
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. A lot of decisions.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: So there's there are two major Second Amendment rulings this well,
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: I guess now it's July. So in June both went
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: in favor of gun owners. And well, well, yeah, the
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: one went in favorite gun owners. The other one went
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: in favor of dope smokers.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: That's true, dope smoking gun owners is a question. Yeah,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: the prompted the question, and I want to I want
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: to hear about the story. But the prompt the question, Well,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: tell the story and then I'll tell the biggest thing
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that comes to my mind when I hear it. Well,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: so I'll tell you right now. So there's two.
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: There's there's the case that was decided is United States
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: versus HARMANI has decided on June eighteenth, And before we
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: get into that, there is another. In order to understand
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: why the Court did what it did, you have to
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: look at this other case from twenty twenty two, which
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: the New York.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: State Rifle and Pistol Association versus Bruin.
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: And in that case, it had to do with New
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: York's handgun licensing system, where you had to show cause
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: for why you needed a carry permit, and the Court
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: struck down that New York law. And what it did
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: in doing that was it established a new set of
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: criteria by which the Supreme Court assesses the constitutionality of
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: gun laws. Prior to that New York State Rifle and
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: Pistol Association case, what they did was they asked whether
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: the law burdened your Second Amendment rights and then weighed
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: that the individual's interest against the government's interest in public safety.
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: And so they it was like a very much sort
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: of facts of the matter waying two sides, and in
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: New York State Rifle and Pistol Association, they instead established
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: what it's called the history and tradition tests. So under
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: this framework, the court basically asks does the Second Amendment
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: cover the conduct in question here? And then it puts
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: the burden on the government to show that what they're
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: doing has is consistent with historical tradition of firearm regulation
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: in America. And they basically are looking at early America
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: and saying, is there something back then that sort of
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: can be used as precedent, although that's not how you'd
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: use the legal language, but basically, is there something in
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: the past that says this is what sort of the
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: founders had in mind? So in this in this Hawani,
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: in this Hamani case, the one that we're talking about
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: with the dope smokers, this is a guy who his
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: house was raided by the FBI in twenty twenty two
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: during a terrorism investigation.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: No, no charges came out.
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's kind of interesting when you know, there's not
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: a lot of news coverage that gets into the fullback story.
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: But he had he they found a gun, I believe
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: it was a Glock nineteen. They found a little baggy
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: of cocaine, and they found some marijuana. He admitted to
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: the FBI that he smokes marijuana, uses marijuana every other day,
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: and so then he was charged the other day every
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: other day, not every day, every other day consistently, consistently recreationally,
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: but not every day.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Like odd numbers on the calendar.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Never on Tuesday, Thursday.
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and so he was. He was charged with three felonies.
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: One for you know, when you fill out a four
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: four seven three when you're buying a gun from an FFL.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Randa likes to flex that he knows those numbers. Yeah,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: well I learned a new one. This is nine two
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: G three.
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: That's the uh, that's the dope smoker clause under US Code.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anyone that goes and buy when you go to
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: buy a gun, they give you that little form. Yeah,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: and you gotta go. Uh. I believe it's yes yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: yes yes no.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: They change something like they they changed the questions around
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: at one point and I noticed it and I said
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: something to the after phone.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: He's like, good, no, good eye. It's just like, have
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: you ever renounced your citizenship? Yeah? Do you have a
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: restraining order against you? Are you a fugitive from the law,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Have you been dishonorably discharge, dishonorably discharged from the military,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and if any of those is a yes, right, you're you're, you're,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: your purchase gets denied and they ask you are you
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: don't smoke it?
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: They say, are you an unlawful user of or addicted
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: to marijuana or any depressant or stimulant drug, unlawful substances,
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: things of that nature. So he got charged with felony
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: for answering no when that they say you had weed
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: in your house?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, same thing had Hunter Biden.
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And he got charged with a felony because one
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: he answered no to that that becomes part of the
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: FFL's records. So he got another felony for his answer
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: becoming permanent records that the FFL has to maintain.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming he was a legal owner of that clock nineteen.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because he filled out the form. Well, I
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: lied on it.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: But it wasn't like it wasn't no.
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he he he had filled out a four to
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: seventy three. So anyway, he got hit with these three felonies,
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: all stemming from the fact that he uses marijuana and
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: he owns a gun. The court ruled unanimously for him
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: in throwing out those convictions. Justice Gorsus wrote the opinion
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: and he uses the history and tradition test that I
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: talked about earlier. And it's kind of funny because what
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: they looked at was they looked at old laws, the
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: closest analog they could find, where old laws that pertain
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: to quote, habitual drunkards.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: We're okay now though.
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well yeah, I mean there's all there's you can
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: look at this on a number of different levels, right, Like,
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: but he he says, essentially those laws only applied to
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: people who were totally incapacitated by their drinking, and not
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: just users of alcohol. He said, you know, if you're you,
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: if it's just someone who uses like unlawful substances, it
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: could be if you take your wife's ambient. Every these
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: are his I'm not just pulling drug references out, but
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: he's like, he's like, by the government's definition of an
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: unlawful user, it could be someone who takes their wife's
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: ambient to get to sleep. It could be a college
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: student who borrows friends adderall to to study for a
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: test or something like that. Like, they're very they're very narrow.
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: They could be very narrow instances, and the law leaves
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: a lot of gray area. And so this is one
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: of the issues with the laws that it's it's just vague.
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: They didn't really address the vagueness question this, which which
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: leaves the door open for further There are some people
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: that would have liked the court to clear that up,
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: but they basically said that someone using an unlawful substance
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: doesn't immediately forfeit their Second Amendment rights.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I read this thing though. I read this the totally
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: wrong way. I like, I arrived in the same place
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: a totally different way when I saw the headline for this.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: In my mind, it was that now that the weeds
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: not federally legal, you have all these state legalities. So
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: when I'm filling out that form and I see a
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: line and I'm in a like weed legal state, I'm
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: in a weed legal state filling out the form and
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I see the form asking me are you addicted to marijuana?
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Why doesn't it say are you addicted to booze? Right?
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: So that's when I was reading like that. I was like,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: with with legalization and we're eventually headed to federal it'll
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: be decriminalized federally eventually. So I was like, why are
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: you pointing out this one substance but you're not pointing
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: out alcohol. It's like why because alcohol is legal. It's like, well,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: weed's legal, so they shouldn't be asking you about oh,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: if you're are you using a thing that's totally legal
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: that you can buy down the road. And if you
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: are using this totally legal thing you can buy down
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: the road, you can't get a gun. That to me
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: is a more but it's compelling argument.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: They're not concerned with whether it's legal in a state.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: They're concerned with the federal laws.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: I know, yeah, but I just I get so when
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I encounter that question that when I'm doing my FFL thing,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: which is frequent, I always pause and say, how could
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: that still be when it's legal? Or to make it consistent,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: you'd have to point out, are you addicted to alcohol?
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: The interesting thing about nine to twenty two G three
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: Okay is that the language comes from the Gun Control
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: Act of nineteen sixty eight. And I was doing some
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: reading and reading some congressional reports about this, and it
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: seems like the way that made it in there was
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: elective officials were just kind of like, well, this all
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: makes sense, and and just wrote that language without much
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: debate or consideration, because it is it's just asking do
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: you use drugs or are you addicted to substances? Which
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: are not they're not things that are established in the
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: legal process. No, right, Like, sure a court could say
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: you're convicted of illegal drug use, right, But you're asking
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: someone to say something that there's no public process by
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: which they've been determined to be an addict.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like you get like a card. Yeah,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: you got to go apply for an addiction card. You'd
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: like if you said to me, you know, I used
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: to like to pull a cork, if you said to me,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: are you addicted lhol, I would have been like, am
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: I drink every day? But no? Right? Right?
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: And the first I mean, that's that's the first step
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: is denial, right, Like that's that's what's so funny about
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: it is the governments asking you are you addicted to
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: a substance? Most addicts are probably gonna say no.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Hell no. And then how does the court prove that
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: you knew you were an addict? But even though you
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: write so, it's so. But there's all this vagueness. I
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: could see if it's said, if the form said like
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: are you a user of an illegal are you an
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: user of a legal substance. But then picture this if
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: depending on what state, give me a non legal state Texas, No,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: this is this happened in what was a non legal
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: probably in Utah. Okay, let's let's just say let's just
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: let's just go out a limb and say marijuana has
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: not been legalized in Utah. Yeah. So if you're taking
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: a federal form and the federal form said something to
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the effect of are you a user of illegal or
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: controlled substances such as blank by blank? Here, you have
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: a situation where a guy in Utah has to say yes,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: but a guy but a guy in New York gets
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: to say no on a federal form.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen to that? Is that question staying
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: on the forum?
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: Randall, Yeah, I mean the court ruling doesn't change anything, right,
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: and and another how.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Could I not change anything?
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: It's the Supreme Court. Well, where do you go from there?
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, it doesn't rewrite the law, is what I mean. Like,
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: the Court has made a decision that if you're convicted
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: under this, it's unconstitutional, but it doesn't. Actually, it doesn't
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: automatically go into US Code and rewrite it. One of
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: the issues with this, and this is Something that also
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: came up in the in the Hunter Biden case is
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: that it's got to refresh.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: People real quick. Yeah, Hunter Biden bought a handgun during
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: a period that he later admitted to being addicted to
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: crack cocaine. Yeah about we're not talking about weed, you
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: were talking about crack, right.
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: But it's it's it's like it's vague enough that it's
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: not There aren't very many cases prosecuted under this part
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: of the you know, like like whatever cases come up
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: for lying on a four four seven three, this is
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: a very small, like single digit percentage of them. And
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: so he made the case, and Hunter Biden made the
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: case that they were being selectively prosecuted, Yeah, because it
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: is vague, and.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: They don't and they generally I remember reading about this
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: in Washington State, where you have a lot of people
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: in Washington State being like, we want more gun laws,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: we want more gun laws. But then someone pointing out,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: you don't force the gun laws you had, And they
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: went and looked at how many people they were prosecuting
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: for lying on that FFL form, And they don't prosecute
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: anyone for lying on that form. They've never gone after anybody.
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: For lying on that form well and the ATA or
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: the I guess maybe yeah, it's ATF Internal Guidance. It
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: actually says like you using drugs, failing a drug test,
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: or being charged with with a crime having to do
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: with drug possession or use one of those three things
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: does not constitute a violation. Like if you were to
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: say yes and you'd use drugs, Uh, they say that's
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: not a lie, right Like that, The ATF Internal Guidance
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: actually has a fairly high standard for what constitutes lying
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: on that form, Like you might have failed a drug
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: test once, but you can still answer no truthful cort.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: That's like most like most of the other questions are
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: very binary. Yeah, do you have a restraining order? There's
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: not a lot of you guys. If you're like, well, yeah,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: I mean you do, you don't, right, Like have you
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: ever renounced your citizenship? You would be like, well, you know,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: one time, it's you either did or didn't so I
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: could see it. Yeah, I was joking about dope smokers
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: and all that.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: Well, I think you'd like to know that marijuana remains
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: fully you egle for both rack and comprehensive medical use. Idaho, Kansas,
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: South Carolina, and Wyoming. Only four states left.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: What's Utah got going on?
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: I didn't go that deep, but who.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Makes it illegal? Who makes it illegal?
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: For Idaho, Kansas, South Carolina and Wyoming completely illegal all
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: the way?
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: And yeah, medicinally, I feel like Wyoming's kind of got
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: like a little bit of more of a libertarian streak.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: I guess not.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: My son used worked behind the gun counter sports and warehouse,
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: and he said, people come in and fill out the
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: forty four seventy three, answer all the questions and then
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: he'd ask for an ID and they'd pull out their
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: medical marijuana card.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: As a joke.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: No, no, like, all right, we'll throw that form away.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good. They cleaned that one up. Oh the
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: other point I had, it's an easy point. Yeah, And
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I think that this is answerable. It was like, if
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: you had to encounter in a bad situation at eye
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: guy with a gun or a drunk guy with a gun,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: what would you pick? I think most people would pick
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: the high guy.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there's like it's been clear to be
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: established that like the drunks are violin.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, gun, Like, hey man, you can go you can
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: go confront that stoned guy with a gun. And confront
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the drunk guy. I'm like, I'll take the stoner.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, same thing with being behind a steering wheel.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Who's better?
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: Well, like, which one would you rather have driving next
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: to you on the interstate.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: That I don't know enough about? I don't know about that,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I'd take the stoner. Yeah, any owner.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Windstorm logging stoner is to storm logging.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: I picked up the story from Nate because I saw
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: windstorm logging, and you know, since I'm basically an expert
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: on logging these days, since we logged our forty acres
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: in Wisconsin couple of years ago, I'm like, yeah, this'll
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: be easy. Turns out not a story really about it
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: is about logging, but it's just so more complicated. So
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: about a week ago, the Daily Montana reported United State's
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: Forest Service announces the emergency logging project over five million
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: acres in Montana and Idaho, and the basics are because
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: of two major straight line wind events. USFS made a
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: planned expedite logging operations to salvage timber reduced habitat for
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: pine beetle type insects, citing safety concerns and limiting wildfire conditions.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: For those of you that don't know.
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: A straight line wind event is like where you have
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: is like the temperatures change rapidly and you have to
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: like really cold air rushing down sometimes associated with moisture,
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: and it basically just comes straight down and then shoots,
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: you know, wind and straight lines, you know every direction?
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Is there a difference between a microburst and a straight
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: line wind event? Very similar?
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: When I was looking up straight line event when events,
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: it looked like it was a synonym levels how long
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: ago it was that, Oh we had him here in
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: Gallatin County. It was it was December of twenty twenty five,
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: and then uh I think I think was it March
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: or April of twenty six? And uh, I can tell
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: you because a snowmobile route that I like to drive
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: and check her line tracks on. I did two days
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: of cutting in December tastes so we could get through
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: it with actually a friend to Jake's chase, and then
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: late in the year we had to come back and
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: do it again because it just got wrecked by those weeks.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: I was on the trailer day and it was I
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: was like, I pity the guy that gets up here
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: on a mule and the like, you're just.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Not the idea behind the longing is they only have
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: so much time to use that stuff for it goes bad.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Well, here here's the deal.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: So to really get into the weeds of this, you
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: got to go back about a year, because, yeah, originally
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: when I first read it, I'm like, great, we're making
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: use some timber that's already down preventing you know, more
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: pine beetles.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: But if you go back about a year. March twenty
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: twenty five, Trump signed an executive order titled Immediate Expansion
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: of American Timber Production. And basically in the four or
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: so months following that, the USFS, BLM, Fish and Wildlife Service,
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: they were all ordered to rework their processes to fast
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: track logging prior.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Remember that because it was like the anti Canada thing, right,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: because we were using too much Canadian lumber.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: I think one of the things that they say is
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: that we should just be using more of our own
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: own lumber.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: So basically the way they did that was that like
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: getting rid or at least minimizing like all the NEPA policies,
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: which is National Environmental for Policy Act rescinding the two
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: thousand and one roll this rule, which that's like still
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: in the works reorganizing the USDA in general around like
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: we've talked about this before on this show, like where
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: the headquarters are now right for the USFS, They've kind
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: of gotten a lot of people out of d C
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: and put them in regional places, a lot less people
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: on the ground to help work through this stuff. The
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: key here is that the order treats ESA consultation requirements
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: as a source of delay for timber and forestry projects
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: on federal land, and it directs agencies to speed those
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: requirements up whenever the law allows. Farther, the ESA has
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: an expedited consultation process meant for genuine emergencies. The order
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: directs agencies to use this emergency pathway max to the
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: maximum extent permissible to facilitate timber production. And if you
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: remember what I said two minutes ago when I read
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: that headline, this is an emergency, right, So that's kind
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: of where we're at. The backlash like has come because
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: they basically slipped it out this plan. It's like it
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: wasn't brought out to any the media. Some people got
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: wind of it and there was like a week long
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: comment period, which is already passed it ended on June
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: twenty ninth, a couple of days ago.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: So people are like pissed.
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: So basically, I mean, I don't know what else there
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: really is to report on it other than like do.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: They got to construct roads or not construct roads?
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: And they're pissed along, like, correct me if I'm wrong.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: They're pissed along kind of partisan lines. Sure, correct, Oh
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: I would, I would imagine.
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: So, yeah, when I've seen if they if they weren't,
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: we should figure out and just trap it and bottle
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: it up and sprinkle it on every other issue out there.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I've seen one thing that makes it not an emergency
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: with an upper case E but an emergency with a
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: lower case E. Is. Sometimes this will happen when there's
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: a big burn is. They'll want to go in. They'll
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: be like, let's go do a timber harvest and harvest
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: all the burn timber. Yeah, and all you all the
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: all you gotta do if you're a if you're an
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: anti logging organization, all you need to do is litigate
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: it to stall it long enough for the stuff to
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: dry and corkscrew because the trees dry and twist and
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: they're no good anyways. Yeah, So if you could be like,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: if you can hold them back for I don't know
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: what it is, six months, eight months, I don't know.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: If you can hold them back, then it's like becomes
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: there's no point to it because the timbers all gone.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: So lowercase E would be, if you're really going to
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: go utilize this for real, you gotta go now or
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: else you're not gonna be able to utilize it, right,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: it's going to dry out.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: That brings up another tricky point in this is that
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: the plan is like a five year plan, and so
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: some of the people against it are saying, oh, really
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: it's an emergency, but we're gonna like we have five
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: years to get this.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Timber by then it's called firewood.
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're thinking that it's just really opening it up
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: to like just generally more commercial logging. I talked to
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: a guy that connected to the forest Service. His questions,
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: and that's what what sort of I think what might
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: takeaway is like it's time to it's just good to
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: ask questions like what constitutes an emergency in this case,
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: right like if those trees are left, like maybe there's
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: more pine beetles. We don't know that for sure, right
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: it we might have a severe winter for the severe
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: winters for the next four years, it might not happen, right,
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: I think there's places where there's fall and timber over
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: roads and near public use areas. Should that be cleaned up?
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fhigher risk would be upper case E sure.
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: I mean that's like another like just a whole nother
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: you know, can of worms. Like there's all kinds of
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: forest management that you know has increased fire risk, you know,
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: in our country. So there is a line in there
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: that says in quotes, and this project will contribute towards
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: forrest resilience, community protection, and ingress egress the old.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's the old sticker. So again could be fine.
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: Like I a state too that For the most part,
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: I'm like very pro logging, especially these days. I don't
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: think I grew up that way, but the more I've
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: learned in my adulthood, Like, I think logging can be great.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Right, there's a lot of logging the needs to happen.
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like good for habitat, good for jobs, good
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: for economy, all the above. But I think you got
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: to do it in the right way.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like yelling at your kids sometimes you got to.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Yell at them.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: That's right, but you should do it in the right
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: way right away. It can't yelling all the time.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah. The firston I talked to said, you know, think
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: about trade offs. Right there's salvaging timber and limiting bugs
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: versus the additional road building. You know, what do all
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: those things do? They felt like these days, uh, you know,
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: anything come out of the current administration can be regarded
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: or regarding land management should be viewed with a high
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: degree of skepticism because they felt like the economic bottom
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: line is what's important to them, and then discussing environmental
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: trade offs is really just getting in the way. So
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: as far as what we can do now, it doesn't
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: like comment periods over, but I think you can still
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: engage with the Forest Service and you can just pay
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: attention and understand what the plans are and when you're
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: gonna see them probably in action, and if they're diverging
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: from what's supposed to be happening, you know, say something
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: about it.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Interesting concepts in there.
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: It's tricky, tricky, tricky, tricky moose moose like, uh, that
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: kind of happened to a brody.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Sure, I love they love it. You know, I'll tell
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: you what they don't like is here's but this is
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: anir thing. Just to go back to step away from
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: moose from it, you get some of those areas, like
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about where all that stuff blows down.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: If we're just talking about a habitat issue, you get
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: some areas that it becomes not usable. Yeah yeah, game
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: don't use it. Oh for sure, they can't get through it.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Just match sticks on.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: It's like you have. You can have huge areas become
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: that like it's just too hazardous. They can't get in it,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: and then it winds up being that nothing uses it.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: So in those cases, if you can do it without
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: like just tons of excessive road building and then future
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: and then future of like massive amounts of traffic, go
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: clean those areas up, you're also making besides the cuts,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: make good successional forest habitat. There's places. I mean, you
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: can go look at places all day around here there's
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: too much blowdown. Oh yeah, it's like just too much blowing.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: It'll eventually it'll be good. Yeah, it'll rot.
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: And there's there. I mean, I don't want to say
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: a big game maybe doesn't use it. That doesn't mean
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: that birds and small game aren't using it in there
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: and in a.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Human lifetime, a human lifetime doesn't see this. But long term,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: sure it decays and all that long long term. But
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: like you know, if you're forty and there's an area
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: that's just too much blowdown, Uh.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna be hot when you're fifty.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: It's basically for you.
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: No, here's a transition we were I was hiking in Missoula,
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: like a couple of months ago with my brother, and
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: I couldn't believe the amount of blowdown, like huge root
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: balls just up in the air from that windstorm that is,
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: and that same trail.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: He's been running into a moose. He's running into him
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: three times now. Nice, Well, he's drawn to that root
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: wad tailor made. Just that's a transition.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about moose in the Southern Shifting baseline
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: syndrome of shyris moose in the Southern Rockies. Uh. You've
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: talked about shifting baseline syndrome a number of times, but
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: if you're not familiar, Shifting baseline syndrome mccurs when each
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: generation inherits kind of an altered perception of their world
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: compared to the last generation. For example, like gradually forgetting
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: what an ecosystem's original or formal state looked like.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like people that My favorite is when people say, like,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: you know, boy, Montana sure changed a lot. I'm like,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: you should talk to the Blackfeet about that exactly.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, everyone experiences it. They just like forget what
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: happened or they weren't like present when things were different.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: So like my former understanding of moose shyris moose in
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Colorado was, along with a lot of other people, was
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: that they probably weren't This is just like I always heard,
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: they probably weren't native, and occasionally they wandered into the
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: northern part of the state. Historically. A recent study at
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: the University of Colorado, Boulder and that GEO they they
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: were fute that that belief that move that moose or
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: this like non native or even some people will even
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: call them invasive species, which I don't agree with that
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: all the invasive part. And they did this, they were
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: fute this by tracing archaeological evidence, historical texts, indigenous oral histories,
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: and archae uh I said, arch.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Dude's old photos.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll get to that. Yeah, pictures and like
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: you might like wonder like how this would even happen,
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: like like this kind of gap where people are like, oh,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: they were never here, when they probably were like, this
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: isn't hard and fast. They're not saying one hundred percent
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: that there was always moose in Colorado, but it's like
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: leaning heavily in that direction. And one of the ways
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: that you they figured that this was able to occur
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: that people kind of forgot about them is European settle
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: set like like they didn't frequently record moose encounters in
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: the southern Rockies Colorado in particular, and then later moose
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: were likely in those areas were likely hunted to localized
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: extinctions during like late nineteenth early twentieth century, like a
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: lot of other species. So by the time like the
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: forties and fifties rolled around Colorado, wildlife managers just had
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: no knowledge or experience with moose and they just simply
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: assumed that moose were not native to the state. They
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: were never there. So the baseline was like incorrectly reset
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: to support the idea that moose were historically absent. So
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: when when a introduction or whether you want to call
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: it reintroduced or introduced that there was a program established
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight in Colorado to cut moose loose.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: They were classif they classified those moose as a non
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: native introduced species, not as a native species. So another
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: like example of this shifting baseline syndrome with for that
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: hunters can relate to, especially like people of our age,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: would be wild turkeys. So like from the early twentieth
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: century to let's say, I would say, like in my head,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: like around nineteen ninety, like close to the time I
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: graduated high school. It's like when we just started like
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: seeing turkeys in places we had never seen them before.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: But like hunters for generations were used to just there
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: was very few turkeys around then all over the damn place.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: They really quickly got used to having turkeys everywhere, and
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: that's their baseline now. And now we're seeing these like
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: declines in populations, Like what's going on? So like that
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: baseline might change in the future.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah you want and be like, what's going on? Is
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: that you got used to something that lasted about three years?
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly exactly. But like I remember like turkeys being
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: like unicorns, man, just didn't exist where I grew up,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: and now they're everywhere. But going back to this study.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: They they they are using archaeological remains, I said, indigenous
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: accounts and early written accounts. So there's a couple archaeological
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: sites once located near Greeley, Colorado, which is pretty close
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: to Denver, and it's moose remains dating back nine thousand years.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Another one is mesa Verday National Park, which is like
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: southwestern Colorado moose bone specimens dating back a thousand years.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: And the idea is that like, because there's a kind
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: of a time span between these dated remains, like that
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: they're probably present throughout that time. There's more examples of
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: bones and teeth and things like that. They do acknowledge
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: like they need to study these these like remains for
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: further biochemical and radio carbon verification. But so there's like
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: hard physical evidence. And then you go to like Native
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: American oral history, so the Hickory Apache and the Northern Arapah,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: they have language markers like words for moose that show
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: up frequently. They have stories and songs where moose show up.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: So there's like that's some major evidence there. And then
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: if you go to nineteenth century early twentieth century newspaper
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: records and photo archives, you'll find more evidence, and they're like,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: do we have that map, Riva, that first one? There
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: we go. So this is like shows all these records
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: of moose sightings at a time when you know, there
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: was supposed to be no moose in Colorado. Those are
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: just like some of the recorded instances of confirmed sightings.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Front Range media, local newspapers, archives, and Pine year diaries
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: throughout the eighteen hundred. The eighteen hundreds frequently reported sightings
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: along the Front Range, which is like not you know,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: like the Denver area is not real close to the
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Wyoming border where they are considered native. And these historical
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: counts didn't like just note like wide ranging bulls. They
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: documented cows and calves, which suggests a breeding population. And
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: there is some photographic evidence too. There's a picture of
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: a railroad worker from nineteen twelve. If we got that
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: picture Reva and he's standing over a dead cow and
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: calf and that chopper the tie chopper, Yeah, railroad lumber
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: worker nineteen twelve, and that's fair play, which is like
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: southwest of Denver, kind of in the middle of the state.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: Can argue that guy's got a great posture too.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: Board then there's a there's a Milton Estes. I did
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: not know that's who Ess Park was was named after.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: But it's like a it's a town right on the
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: border of Rocky Mountain National Park.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: This old kypeful queed back out from it. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: this this tie chopper.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: I had to shoot the cow and the calf.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Huh, Well, shot the cow and then the calf would
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: just standing. They had hungry you know, they had some
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: hungry railroad workers man. But there Yeah, a gentleman named
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Milton Estus strikes me as like an old time like
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: whatever railroad baron or something something like that. Yeah, he
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: shot a bull near Estes Park, and that that area
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: where he shot that bull is now named Moose.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Park eighteen sixty three. Yep, can I Can I share
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: something real? The Blackfoot word I was sucks? I remember
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: it was cool. The Blackfoot word for moose six sis.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: That's my just rough pronunciation. You know what. It translates
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: to black going out of sight.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: That is man.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a rappo. It's hen and he and then he
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: translates the big man. I like that. The other one
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: I cannot. There's no way I'm gonna pronounce which it
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: references the moose's large, flat nose. But anyway, so there's
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: your reverence that that there's probably moose were probably in
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: the southern Rockies in Colorado, and that they're probably native.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: If you look at what's happened since we got a
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: map from nineteen eighty two, which is after the introduction
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: started in Colorado, it's a teeny weeny little spot there
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: in the Flat Tops area of Colorado where they cut
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: some moose loose in the late seventies. And then you
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: fast forward to the next map, which is twenty fifteen,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: and it's like, damn, they're all over the place. And
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: that was ten years ago. Mexico, I'm sure. I mean,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: they're so close to the border they got to at
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: least end up down in there at some time. And yeah,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: this map was ten years ago that population, but not
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: that population has increased even more in the past ten years.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: So this shifting baseline syndrome, it kind of shaped decades
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: of wildlife management and public perception of moose because they
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: were viewed as non natives, so recognizing them as natives
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: could impact like future management decisions.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: The initial introduction of twenty four animals YEP estimated populations
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: thirty five, thirty.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: Five, six, and seventy moose tags was by far out
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: of the Western States, like more available moose tags than
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: any other states.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: Is that something that cbw' is considering is I.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Don't think they've got this. This study just came out,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: like CPW is not even involved with it yet. I
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: don't know if they'll like formally recognize them as natives.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: Was there a said reason in for the study? Someone
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: was just like I think because it.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Was just for the longest time, it was just this unknown.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: It was like, are they aren't.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: They probably they probably knew a lot about it. It
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: burned their ass they were calling them non native. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: There was a similar case with bison in the Grand
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: Canyon area where the Park Service considered them non native.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: And there's about three manuscripts now that do the same thing.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: They look at archaeological evidence and and document that they
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: were native. It was at the fringe of the range
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: in the planes.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: But then and then then you do this, you go, well, sure,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: but not a lot.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: But also it looks like they've got a lot of
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: evidence for for moose, but the nine thousand year old
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: they need to stop using those kind of things, because yeah,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: we had we had mammoth eight thousand years ago on
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: Wrangle Island, right right, that's not.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Really what there was, like Caribou and Ohio.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And you know, bones can have a way
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: of showing up in weird places. But I think they
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: got a solid case for what they're saying.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: Well, you're going to when you mark stuff back, it's
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: like march it back. Everybody's got their own pick. But
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: if I was look at that, I'd be like, hey,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: we're gonna go back to European contact.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, and one of them they did have thousand
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: year old which is a lot.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot clothes, but yeah, go back to European
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: Contact and see what's going on. They had a ton.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: That's a good I feel like that's always a good
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: base on.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: This is working in my favorite because I think I've
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: got like fifteen.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Points or something.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: I got quite a few moose in Colorado.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: Just help them wolves, don't eat them all.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: You're right now. I thought about that.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 6: Well, speaking of growing cop populations, what do you got, Nate,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 6: North Carolina Elk season coming at you in.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Twenty North Carolina opener?
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, man, So here's the deal Elk Eastern elk they're
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 6: extra paid. North Carolina eighteen hundred and reave. If you
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 6: can pull up.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: That blue map, this is the most depressing map in
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: the world. It's so sad.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: Look we're looking at is.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Current versus historic elk range. Basically, if you're listening, you're
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: in elk country. Yeah, unless you live in Texas or
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: well California, live in the lower Florida nine tenths of Texas,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: the Atlantic coast.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: What's is that the Great Basin that's between California and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: Nevada there where they.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Weren't eastern California, western Nevada.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 6: And so you'll see if you look real close in
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 6: western North Carolina there's a tiny little blue dot and
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 6: that is where in two thousand and one North Carolina
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 6: introduced I heard of fifty two elk in a Great
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 6: Smoky Mountain National Park. Following for about fifteen years population growth,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 6: twenty sixteen, the state agency created a framework for hunting,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 6: and twenty eighteen General Assembly made a resident and non
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 6: resident license. Now that's great, but take a guess at
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 6: how much of that not that resident elk license.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: That's beefy. That's a beefy pro. Throw a number out
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: there if you haven't seen it. I've been looking at it.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: The whole five hundred dollars for a resident license. That's like,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: that's cheat non resident that is about That is about
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty bucks more than I would picture.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's expensive to get the.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: Relative to other opportunities, it's expensive.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: It doesn't doesn't bother me.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: Well, you must speak in California saying what bothers? You
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: can almost hunt for a decade in it's.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: Ab but there's not many of them there.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: It's gonna the only like I agree with you, Brodie,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: because if they're like, oh, it's a great way to
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: raise money, but it is definitely going to limit opportunities.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: You can't do that for some kid. Some fourteen year
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: old kid draws it, he's got to come up with
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: five hundred bucks.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: He starts to gofund me. He'll be fine.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Listen, if your fourteen year old kid and you draw it,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: we'll buy it. Yeah, there you go. But you got
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: to be a resident fortune. Will you choose my words
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: very carefully? Fourteen year old resident or fourteen year old resident?
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Elk hunter in North Carolina. If you draw as a
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: resident in North Carolina and you're fourteen, we will buy
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: your license and Yanni will come bugle for you. Yeah, fifteen,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: your a screw of teen year old at the time
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: of draw. Fourteen of draw, well, you'll probably get some
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: California fourteen year olds writ and in because their resident
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: ELK tag is five hundred and ninety five bucks. It's rich.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: It's a lot.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 6: Utah's three fourteen arizonas one hundred and thirty five. So
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 6: North Carolina will spend the as a non resident, which
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 6: they will have tags for potentially one thousand bucks.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: Stick, yeah, stick it to them, Stick it to them.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: They're already spending all kinds of money exactly Like they're like,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: that's a By the time they spend all the other money,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: that won't even matter. Ye.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 6: So that takes us to today House Bill seven four
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 6: to seven, which passed the House with only one dissenting vote,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 6: and it's being considered by the Senate, and that would
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 6: authorize two tags, one by raffle and one by auction
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 6: for the twenty twenty seven hunting season, which stretches from
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 6: October first November first.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Oh Man, just to have that tag.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: Oh dude, yea, So those license prices don't mean anything anyway.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: So what what do you mean, Because you're not going
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: to win it.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: Because you're gonna get it by raffle.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 6: So your the raffle rules twenty bucks per ticket and
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 6: you can buy a max of thirty Okay, so you
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 6: can put five hundred bucks in.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: So they're they're they're they're all not auctioning. They're doing
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: a draw for how many for one one, then that's
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: a raffle.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: It's a raffle one five hundred dollars elk tag.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: It could be a thousand if a resident wins. Right,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: So there's two permits, so do it one by auction,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: one by oh but then so if you win, then
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: you got a pony. Up five, then you got a
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: pony I got.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: So I'm surprised that for one tag that's in the
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 4: draw that they're letting non residents in.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: Yep, dude, actual quick, North Carolina, real quick. This is
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: from a place of love.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 6: That's not true if you're going to make a statement
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 6: on that, because half of the raffle tag's got to
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 6: be reserved for not North Carolina residents. And so in
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 6: this first draw. That raffle will go to North Carolina residence.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 6: The auction, which is how the other permit's going, facilitated
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 6: by a yet to be determined nonprofit. That one is
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 6: just your typical governor's tag auction.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: This is the message for North Carolina. It's not too late. Yeah,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have two ELK tags. You can't not auction
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: one of them off. You are getting off on the
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: wrong foot. Yep, you are getting off. This is you
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: are setting a terrible This is from a place of love.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: You are setting a terrible precedent that you're gonna build
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: a public ELK cared. Your lawmakers are sitting a terrible price.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: You're gonna build a public elcred issue two tags, and
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: one half of it goes to the highest bidder.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: Come on, I'll play devil's advocate, though there are the
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: people are gonna say, what an opportunity to raise five
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars to go?
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: I don't care arguments both those tags raffles.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: Yep, I'm gonna say what the argument's gonna be.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: I would say, both those tags raffles raise a bunch
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: of money like that? You can't it can't be that
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: the sandwich shop guy or whoever that always buys all
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: these buys this.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 6: It's funny you mentioned that because they did a survey
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 6: in twenty two about just ELK support in general, and
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 6: sixty one percent of the folks are all for regulated
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 6: ELK cunting of like local landowners. Nineteen percent approve of
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 6: non North Carolina residents ELK cutting.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. They're making a huge mistake to auction
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not even getting to the resident non resident thing.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: Auctioning off fifty percent of your thing to the highest
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: bidder and removing fifty percent of the tags from ninety
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: nine point nine percent of North Carolinians or Americans in
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: general and handing it off to the highest bidder is
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: just shitty. It's stupid.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 5: We need a billionaire in North Caare aligned to step
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: up buy that auction raffles? Yeah, or just make sure
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 5: it doesn't go to a non North Carolinian.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: It's just terrible. They shouldn't be doing that. Do a raffle,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: do a draw, don't do that.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 6: Moving forward, they have a rule where if they add
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 6: another they have to add an additional raffle tag before
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 6: they add another auction tag. But it could just grow.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: That's good. Equally, it could just be like two and
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: two and four auction. This is just a T shirt
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: saying auction half your opportunity.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: You come from a big auction state, Jim, what do
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: you think about that?
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: A former auction state, Our commission stop auctioning and we
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: do raffles for those we don't have an auction tag anymore.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not anti auction tag. I'm anti having half and
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: whatever the numbers, I'm anti having half of your tag
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: allocation go to the highest bidder. Auction states usually take
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: what one in one hundred, like a percent up percent,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: two percent of the opportunity to the highest bidder. Okay, sure,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: that's fine, fifty percent.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 5: I could see it being a if it was a
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 5: one time deal that was just like this money is
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 5: to get the ELK management give it some legs, right
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 5: like I could. But to just have this be the
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 5: perpetual allocations.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: Here's what I'd do. I'd sell it to the highest
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: bidder and then raffle that money off. You buy a
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: raffle to win all that money. I like that idea
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: or something like that.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what this don't name ELK here like.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 6: This is the best part is you go on on
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 6: North Carolina State Agency and they have all these recommendations
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 6: on being elk smart, bi alka ware, YadA, YadA. One
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 6: of the bullet points is, I quote, don't name elk.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 6: Characterizing elk or any wildlife by naming them degrades their
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 6: wild essence. The very reason people are drawn to elk
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 6: is their unaltered independence from human from humans. Personifying elk
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 6: as humans takes away from their truly wild nature.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: I agree that non hunters have no business naming elk.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: Coming from a guy who just named him mouse. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: non hunters should not name them. But if hunters can't
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: call them old picket fence, the old drop time, how's
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: supposed to know what you're talking about.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: Colorado's got a whole anti poaching lawn named after an
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: elk Samson lawn. Oh really yeah.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but nine hunters should't name them like old ketz
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: whatever they name stuff.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: No, yeah, I'm one hundred percent against naming animals. With
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: researchers naming individual animals, and I have graduate students that
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: start naming things, and I tell you, not naming animals.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: Scientists don't name animals, but that's a different wrinkle. I
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: hadn't thought about hunters name it. Oh yeah, all of
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: their target bucks a different name.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't think of that.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can always say that one buck. There
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: be so many bucks into that one buck.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 6: Moving into another state that's near and dear to my
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 6: heart Ohio. A active listener and burgeoning conservationist, Josh she
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 6: Han wrote in about twelve thousand acre purchase of private
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 6: land for state recreation Ohio. I think I think it's
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 6: super important because Ohio is one of the lowest rates
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 6: of public land in the US. It's like two point
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 6: five percent. And they've they've just passed They've just passed it.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 6: Governor signed it. A four billion dollar infrastructure bill which
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 6: covers parks and public buildings, museums, one hundred k for
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 6: the Johnny Appleseed Museum, twenty five million for Central State
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 6: gesture towards me when you said yes because of the
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 6: recent podcast, twenty five million for Central State University, which
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 6: if you're from southwest Ohio you'll know why that's funny.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 6: But twenty five million of it is for buying state land,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 6: and that can be matched with twenty five million Pitman
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 6: Robertson Funds and they're about twelve thousand acres in the
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 6: southeast of Ohio, basically the fracking capital of Ohio, which
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 6: we'll get into. There's a number of public, public state
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 6: pieces that people have already hunt that they're adding acreage
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 6: to Richland Furnace, Shawnee Tar Hollow, Concole and Cooper Hollow,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 6: and it's just going to broaden public access. The interesting
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 6: tidbit here is that they're prioritizing sustainable timber management, soil
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 6: and water preservation, and public recreation. Where it gets a
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 6: little weird is that this is where a lot of
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 6: fracking goes on, and so you have there's there's a
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 6: little bit of questions about are they just getting more
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 6: land to frack. It's unclear that that process will play
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 6: out over the future the coming years.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: But I called.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 6: I called one of my buddies who's down there in Ohio,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 6: and I've hunted this area too, and worst case, I mean,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 6: you hear stuff like fracking. Oh no, it's all just
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 6: this cloak and dagger or whatever. But we've hunted on
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 6: fracked land. You know, if you have a twelve thousand
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 6: acre fracking operation, you know they plunk down forty acre
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 6: little hubs and then you hunt the rest of it.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: And so I'm kind of sitting here like, Okay, even
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: if it does end up going and getting fracked, at
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: least it's public that I can go hunt now. Yeah,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: you know in.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 6: Egypt, Valley, Salt Fork, Jockey Hollow, those are all examples
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 6: of that that it's still good access. But keep your
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 6: eyes and that money.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: Then you know, there's a royalty portion of it that
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: goes to purchasing more and where this original twenty five
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: million dollars came from is partly from these gas royalties,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: and so it's just nuanced. But it is exciting that
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: a state that doesn't have a lot of public land
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: can get more of it. And it's gonna happen. Finally,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: another great news story from the state levels Massachusetts modernizing
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: their hunting loss assholes, those massholes.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 6: The governor put forward a note to update outdated law,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 6: outdated hunting laws and reduce the deer population, and she
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 6: says it's specifically in relation to the spread of Alpha gal.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 6: These three, these three initiatives she's got is removing the
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 6: Sunday hunting band because they're between them and Maine. They're
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 6: the last two with Sunday hunting bands. Removing the permanent
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 6: disability requirement for crossbows so anyone can shoot a crossbow,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 6: and then reducing the archery hunting setback from five hundred
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 6: feet which it is currently to two hundred and fifty.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 6: The interesting tidbit here.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: I get very excited about number one. Yep, decreased enthusiasm
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: on number two. Real excited about number three. Totally agree.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: Crossbows are a complicated issue. But yeah, doubles your Sunday
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: hunting ban. It cuts your weekends in half. So doubling
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: your opportunity is great. And the setback. At first, I
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: didn't really think that that was a big deal, but
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: when you throw the numbers to it and revo if
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: you can pull up that green and red map, if
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: you were to drop like let's say you have a
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: piece of woods and you drop a building in there,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: and it's by statute you cannot hunt with archery tackle
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: within five hundred feet of it, you lose eighteen acres.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: If that's reduced to two hundred and fifty feet, that
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: standoff you lose four and a half acres. And so
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: applied to a pretty suburban area where these where white
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: tail are generally doing well, and where there's a lot
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: of concern about tickborne illness as well as CWD transmission.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: It has a significant impact. And so looking at that map,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: all that green is what it currently This is a
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: township Norton. All that green is what's currently open to
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: hunting with a five hundred foot standoff on the right
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: is what it would be with a two hundred and
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: fifty foot standoff. Now it gets more complicated, there's local
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: rules and whatnot, but the base, this is the baseline. Yeah,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: you never think of those I shouldn't say never. You
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: don't think of those standoffs as really reducing huntable ground.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: But then you look at that map right there, and
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: it's like, it's shocking how much does And I'm the
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: math wizard. I would have thought five hundred feet two
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: hundred feet, I would have thought it would have been
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: fifty percent. It's the ones that being different. So if
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: you at five hundred feet, you lose eighteen acres, a
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty foot standoff you lose four and
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: a half acres.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 6: And so just applied to this township of Norton right now,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 6: it's about nineteen thousand acres. The whole town off limits
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 6: at five hundred feet is thirteen thousand. Of those nineteen
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 6: thousand acres at two hundred and fifty, only nine thousand
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 6: is off limits, are about half.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: So your huntable acreage.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 6: At the five as it can't stands currently is five
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 6: six hundred acres. If you reduce that to two hundred
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 6: and fifty, it goes almost to ten thousand at nine thousand,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 6: seven hundred, or fifty two percent of the area. What
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 6: an interesting way to increase access, especially at a place
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 6: where white tailor crushing it.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: Like I'd run the numbers with a one foot restricted area.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: You have to give me some time on that.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: How does this.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Can't shoot within a foot exactly?
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: Is coming from the governor.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 6: So that's the interesting tidbit. She is a governor known
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 6: for anti gun legislation. She's also getting re elected this year,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 6: and so a thought is that she's pandering to hunting
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 6: organization and hunters who are a swayable demographic traditionally by
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 6: giving some some throwing some bones to the archery hunt.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 6: Take them bones, I know, man, I know, Or you'd
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 6: have your cake and eat it too.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: Take them bones and then don't vote for you if
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: you want. So, there's a lot of ways to play this.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: The bills I passed the House, it's sitting with the Senate.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: Their fate. They're trying to reconcile. But you know, just
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: follow it.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 6: Sportsman's Alliance has got a call to action. Check it
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 6: out on their website. Really good coverage there, and it's
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 6: just it's good stuff. You know, take take what you
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 6: can get. And finally, like Steve talked about, Oregon raised
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 6: their overnight lodging tax by one point for conservation. That's great,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 6: that's great alternative funding mechanisms.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Did you see what gane Forte said to the people
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: in Oregon that came up with the hunting hunting ban legislation.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: He had message for them.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: He said, don't come to Montana.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: I keep wanting to do a if we had better
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: production capabilities and actors and stuff that worked here. I
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: wanted to do a skit series where that guy, you know,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: that little moby looking dude, the vegan guy that pushed
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: for that he where the day after the election, he
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: goes out to ranches to inform them that they that
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: they have to wind down their operation it's I hate
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: to be the bear bad news, but ranching is now illegal.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: Your boys are gonna need are gonna neither wrap it up.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: Maybe that cowboy hat.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: He'd only make it the one or two ray.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 6: So these are just generally good news stories coming from
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 6: the state level, especially when there's there's chicanery happening at
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 6: the federal level. So stuff to get excited about and
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 6: stuff that you guys can can really have an impact
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 6: on if it's if it's in your home state.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: The the the funding, and I don't like when people
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: say alternate funding mechanism, I should going out for listeners. The
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: standard funding mechanism for wildlife at the state levels, hunting licenses,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: tag stamps, fishing licenses like hunting licenses, fishing licenses, excise
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: taxes on sporting goods pay for your state level conservation.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: When people say an alternate funding mechanism, sometimes what they're
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: getting at is this idea that we should ditch all
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: that stuff and have something different. I like to think
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: of these states that are doing supplemental funding mechanisms and
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: there's novel ways of doing it, and what happened where
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: you do a percent like a fraction of a percent
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: of state tax puts a state in a position where
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: it's being like doing great wildlife work and doing public
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: land acquisitions.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 6: Hell yeah, man, Yeah, it's like it basically puts an
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 6: extra dollar twenty five on your taxes per night and
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 6: when staying at like an Airbnb or hotel.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and most those are people that don't even live
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: in that state, so screw yeah.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 6: And it raises the thirty eight million bucks.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: Here's here's a good one from Utah. This is This
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: is an interesting one. This is this is another bit
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: of like this is a kind of public land going
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: public land. Okay. The information I'm gonna share with you's
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: taken from Utah's Department of Natural Resources website. So this
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: is in the Book Cliffs area. In the book Cliffs area,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: they have this fifty thousand acre parcel of state owned land.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: But it's in it's a it's part of the school
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Trust land. Okay. Historically, if you go into the eastern
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: state three you have townships, so six thirty six square
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: mile townships, like you got counties, and the counties are
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: broken up in the townships. Each township is six miles
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: by six miles. Historically, you'd be like well, how are
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: we gonna pay for public schooling. Well, you'd say one
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: section out of each township, so one square mile out
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: of every thirty six square miles will be given to
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: the state to monetize in order to pay for public eduetion.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: In the Western States you have a similar thing, but
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: it's not as rigid in terms of the township things.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: But you have what we call school trust lands. In Utah,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: they have this big chunk of school trust land, and
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: the school trust program works where it needs. They have
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: the option, they have the mandate to leverage their school
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: trust lands for purchase or for profit. Right, what can
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: you do to get the most money off them? But
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: they had this chunk where there's no roads. It's a
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: roadless piece of school trust land. And they realize the
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: best way to derive value from this fifty thousand acres
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: of roadless school trust land, the best way to derive
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: value would be to sell it and then take that
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: asset and invest it. And that's going to do more
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: than what other kind of other business you do, mining, logging,
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: whatever on that land. So this is a weird deal
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: of like the state moving money around. So here you
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: have the state school trust land holds fifty thousand acres.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: The state legislature goes and creates a pool of money.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: What was the what was the price? You set the
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: price here? I got hi fifty million bucks? Okay. The
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: state legislature goes and creates a pool of money, fifty
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: million dollars, so that they can go pay the other
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: state agency, the School's trust agency, the fifty million dollars
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: to then turn it into a state game area. And
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: they're even calling it. They're saying it'll remain a roadless
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: state game area. So it's a really novel way. It
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: was already public, it'll stay public, but now you've had
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: that the school trust fund gets its money. So basically,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: the Utah taxpayer just paid fifty million bucks into its
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: own public school fund and what they got out of
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: it was for fifty thousand acres of protected habitat and
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: a really good wildlife area. There's a hook I didn't realize.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: I read assummation to this in a lot of places.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: The hook I didn't realize is that they are not
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: handing over mineral rights. The state is not handing off
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: its mineral rights to this piece of land. Trying to
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: find this grapher mentions this excuse, excuse the sloppiness. If
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: you guys in the in the press release on the
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: DNRS on site, says it's important to remember that trust lands,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: that's capital TL. So the school Trust land thing will
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: retain all subsurface mineral rights and the access necessary to
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: develop those resources in the future if that option is
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: financially viable. So they've sold the land to the Utah taxpayers.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: They now have this land. But the school Trust people
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: are saying, unless down the road we decide to industrialize
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: it and mine it till then it's yours. Great, it
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: might not happen. It's just an interesting little wrinkle. If
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: I was the state, I would go to the state
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: and say, can we revisit the mineral right bit of this?
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: Is this a deal killer for you? Like walk across
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: the hall to that office and be like, is it
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: a deal killer if we take the subsurface rights? Yeah?
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: But still it's you know, I still applaud the measure
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: because this is coming from a state where there is
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: which has a history of being not entirely friendly to
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: federally managed public land. So this is great. A deer
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: doesn't care if it's on state road wilderness area or
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: federal wilderness area. The deer doesn't care. He loves it
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: either way. It's great. The subsurface thing is odd. We'll
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: see if in some decades they realize that the place
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: is full of tungsten, and yeah, you know, the place
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: is full of tungsten, and all of a sudden they're like, hey,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: you know, we've got to have an awkward conversation about
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: that land you bought from us. You keep shooting that
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: punk gun. They're gonna that's business. That was business. And
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: with that, ladies and Gentlemen's the news show. Thanks for
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: coming on, Jim half a Finger, thank you, thanks for
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: having me join next week. And this is the only
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: players for we can get news. It ain't fake. That's
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: our tagline, all right. I like it