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Gray Zones with Wendy Schofer · Lean Out Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Lean Out Podcast.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Dr.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: Dawn Baker.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Are you looking for a new approach to finding authentic and sustainable work-life balance?
0:11
SPEAKER_01: You've come to the right place for inspiration, information, and a community of like-minded professionals.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Let's get to the show.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: The day I'm recording this intro is the day that it just seemed to really turn into fall in the mountains here.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: It's more than halfway through September already, but all of a sudden, today the temperatures dropped like 10 degrees.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: The leaves are changing in full force, and the breeze is strong.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: What's it like where you live?
0:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious how other people are experiencing fall right now.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm about to head to the Brave Enough Women's CME conference in Scottsdale, Arizona, which, of course, will not feel very fall-like.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: It'll probably be like 90 degrees.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: And this conference will probably have just finished up by the time this episode goes out.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to be leading a table discussion about authenticity in medicine.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: And I'm also leading two all-levels yoga classes in the morning at the conference.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: If you're a retreat or a conference facilitator, or if you're in charge of getting speakers for any sort of event at your workplace, I'm always available for these kinds of things.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: If you go to practicebalance.com/slash speaking, you can see some examples of my work.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: And then let me know if you'd like to hire me to come to one of your events.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: I will link directly to the I'll link directly to this page in the show notes.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay, on to the show today.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: My guest is Dr.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Wendy Schofer.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Wendy is a dual-board certified physician and lifestyle physician.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: She's a trauma-informed parenting coach specializing in eating disorder prevention for family members of all ages and sizes.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: She retired from a career in Navy medicine in 2021 and is the founder of Family in Focus.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: She's on a mission to help 1 million families build the social-emotional skills that strengthen relationships with food, body, and especially each other.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: In our conversation today, we discuss Wendy's retirement from naval medicine and transition to a much more nebulous practice.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: You can imagine that her old world was filled with rules and very prescribed paths.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: And now she's in a gray zone of a coaching-based practice in a specific niche that is very difficult to define.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: And yet she's loving it.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: Accordingly, we discuss the common and yet elusive topic of navigating uncertainty.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: And Wendy surprises me with one of her tactics for how she deals with uncertainty.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: I also have to thank Wendy for being flexible enough to come and record with me two different times because when we were recording the first part of our conversation, there was this huge mountain rainstorm with lightning and thunder, and our internet happened to go out in the middle of it.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: We had to reschedule and finish the conversation on another day.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: So if you watch this interview on YouTube, which you can do so at youtube.com slash at practicebalance, you'll see the sky getting really dark in my background because I have the windows behind me with the forest.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: And then halfway through, we just totally change clothes and we're in different rooms and whatnot.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I hope you enjoy this conversation with Wendy.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Wendy Schaufer, welcome to the Lean Out Podcast.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
3:46
SPEAKER_00: I am so grateful to be here with you today.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: We just had a whole bunch of outdoor stuff going on.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, let's cool down and hang out right now.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, tell me a little bit more.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: What have you been doing outside today?
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh, today is mental health Monday.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: I um needed to just get out of the house and I found myself out by the river with I think about 10 million of my newest friends, the mosquitoes.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: And then I decided that I was going to come home and set up a tent to escape the mosquitoes.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: So we've known each other online for a little while.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Tell the audience a little bit about you.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: Tell us about what you're into these days and how your work-life balance is different from other people in your chosen profession.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, so I'm a pediatrician and I think about the trajectory of my career and what I'm doing.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's really changed over the years.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: The early part of my career was in military medicine with active duty and reserve uh medicine.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: And then I transitioned after I retired from the military exclusively into my own practice, uh, which is built around family relationships with food and body and especially each other.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Like it, that's the really critical part in the work that I do, that it's about bringing the family together and working on the dynamics around food and each other.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that really parallels a lot of my own journey professionally, uh, because, well, professionally and personally, because it's really about the family.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: It's really about us spending quality time together, but really creating relationships that are lifelong.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: And I've really applied that to working with families around food and body, but it's all based in the interpersonal relationships and how we need that first in order to be able to grow out from there.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really a big part of what was missing in my early career.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: So that's why it's so gratifying for me now to really have that forefront in the work that I'm doing now.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned that you retired from military medicine.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Did you do pediatric medicine in the military or were you doing another kind of medicine before that?
6:11
SPEAKER_00: It's a yes and situation.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: You'll find me saying that a lot.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, Anne.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: So I was uh trained as a pediatrician, you know, in my my military residency practice.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: But the other cool thing about training in the military is that you're also trained to be a general physician as well.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: And so I was working as active duty, primarily working as a pediatrician.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, with your traditional children and families.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: But when I was in the reserves, I worked with family members of all ages.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: I worked with uniform service members.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: I also worked with their families.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: And so again, it's a yes and where I got the experience of working with the entire family, working with family members of all ages.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: And I don't happen to know exactly how retirement from the military works.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Can you explain what went into that?
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, why did you decide at the time that you did to go ahead and leave?
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, um, I gotta tell you, one of the biggest motivating factors for me in my professional decisions is uh, where's the fun?
7:26
SPEAKER_00: Follow the fun.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Am I having fun?
7:28
SPEAKER_00: And when I got to the point where I was like, you know, I'm not having any more fun.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: And I also happen to be uh at the mark where I could retire as far as my 20 years of service.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: I was like, it's my time, my time is done.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to transition.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: And I I think about that now because I often use the language of there's a season for different things, you know, a season for different activities or approaches.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know, I think the season is done now.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: And uh I have not regretted it one bit with that that decision to transition to retirement and really enjoying that now.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Now the funny part about this though is that, you know, I retired from the reserves back in 21.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: And my husband just retired uh from active service this past uh what is it, June, uh, June of 26.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: And so I never thought about myself as being retired, even after I retired from the reserves, because I, you know, was then in civilian practice and, you know, kind of making the case that I was too young to retire.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking, you know, like that doesn't fit me.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, whatever.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: I retired from the military, but there's still all these other things that I'm doing in my life, these other things that that are meaningful.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's since he has retired, on a very definitive he has retired, that I'm like, oh, hold on a minute.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: That's two of us.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Why am I not going around saying that?
9:11
SPEAKER_00: Why am I not leading with that?
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Like I am a retired military pediatrician.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Totally true.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: And I've had other practice, you know, um uh other work structures and other types of practices that I've been doing over the past however many years, but you can be retired and do that.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: So again, yes, and and so I'm finding myself really kind of sitting with it right now and saying, yeah, we're both retired.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: We're both retired.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: And we're now in a different season.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Or now, you know, we're in a new chapter.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: What does this chapter look like for each of us, for us together?
9:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm still trying to figure out what this chapter exactly what it looks like.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, tell me about your practice with kids and families and uh food eating disorder prevention type work.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: Tell me what that looks like.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: So the practice is called family in focus.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's something that really kind of sparked out of my clinical practice within the military clinics.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: And I loved working with families so very much on ongoing longitudinal care.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: So growth, nutrition, mental health, development, all the things that I love.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: And I had families that were increasingly coming in, telling me that they were concerned about their children's weight and eating habits and wanting to be able to help, but not make it a thing.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, you know what?
10:52
SPEAKER_00: I got you.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: I have all this great education, I've all this great practice experience.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: And so we would write out plans for portions and movement and, you know, meal planning and um really kind of spell it all out and I'd give it to the families and then say, come back three to six months later, because you know, nothing happens overnight.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's see where things are going.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: And thank goodness they did come back.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Thank goodness I had built that relationship because they would come back.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: But the thing is that they would repeatedly say, you know what?
11:29
SPEAKER_00: This isn't working.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm putting so much time and effort and money into making good meals, and my kids refuse to eat them.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: And they're going and raid in the pantry after dinner time.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, I hate to exercise, and now I'm trying to force my kid to get off the couch and go out and exercise.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: We're just fighting each other.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: And I just keep on finding those ridiculous candy wrappers under the bed.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: It is infuriating.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: And then the parents said the hardest thing.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: They said, I'm failing.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm failing my child.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm failing your plan.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know what else to do here.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: And that was a big wake-up call for me.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Because, well, for one thing, if I hear a parent that says that they're failing, well, hold on a minute.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: You are never failing as a parent.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: You are not.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: You are in it.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm hearing Brene Brown in my head right now saying, you know, you're in the arena.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Parents are most definitely in the arena with their kids.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I was recognizing that the plan that I was giving the family wasn't actually meeting them where they were.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't building upon what was working.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: It was like, you got to go and change all these things, but not actually looking at, well, what is it that they want to keep?
12:45
SPEAKER_00: What is it that they want to, you know, kind of create a foundation and build upon, which is a really big part of my practice that that I um where I help families right now is creating that foundation that they're building upon.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, and the other thing is that I was struggling with the exact same things in my home.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, you know what, this isn't working for any of us.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: This isn't working at all.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Like we have all these like evidence-based, you know, best thought-out plans and everything.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this doesn't work for anybody.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: What is with this?
13:20
SPEAKER_00: We need to look at this a different way.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: And so that's where the practice was really born from me saying, okay, there's got to be something else.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: There's got to be a different approach, a different way to um to be able to really understand families, um, what they're struggling with, why things are the way they are right now.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Instead of just coming and saying, well, this is what you got to change, because everybody's doing that.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: You go on any social media and everybody's like, this is what you need to do.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: This is the product, this is the plan.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: I got it.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: It's just XYZ dollars.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Simple and fast is what people want.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: And the other thing is that a lot of times solutions have to do with adding more and doing more.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And I love how you said, wait, let's look at what's working so that you're not overwhelming people.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Which really strikes a home for me because I think that the primary thing that I'm doing in all of this, it's not about the kids, it's about the parents.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: And the parents are overwhelmed.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: They are stressed, they are being pulled in so many different directions, and they will do anything to help their children to the detriment of their own health and sanity and sleep.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it it's like we need to be able to pour more into adults, in particular parents, so that they can then really create the environment where they thrive, their whole family thrives.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: It's like the ripple effect getting out to the kids.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: It's not about specifically targeting them like I was doing earlier in my career, where it was like, this is what needs to change for this child.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: And then the kid, it's like, no, I don't want you to tell me what to do.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: And then the parents were like, oh, well, I got one kid that's on the um slimmer side of life.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: I got one kid that's on the bigger side of life, and everybody's telling me to do two different things.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm being pulled in different directions.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, no, no, we need to bring this back to what you need to know that you're doing what you need for yourself, for your children.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: And when it comes down to relationships, it's not about the individual food choices or portions.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: It's about something much bigger than so do people see you in person or video call or both?
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Or how do they structure their relationship with you?
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: So primarily the relationship is virtual.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: I do have different options.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: If we happen to live close by, we have all sorts of different options available.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: But I specifically created this practice so that it is a coaching-based practice.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: So this is not replacing the medical care that you receive from your pediatrician, your family physician.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Keep your primary doctor, absolutely, because they know the ins and outs of all of your medical needs.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: And yet there's something that you want to change.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: You want to create changes around eating habits, around stress and relationships at home.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: That is exactly where I help families.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: And so, in order to do this, I knew that I needed to make this bigger than waiting for someone to say, I have a problem, I have a diagnosis, I've met a threshold.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm coming in to see you in the doctor's office.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing so much outreach and advocacy.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Also, the magical thing is doing it in groups.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Coming together in small groups is really powerful because one parent is talking, the other one is like, get out of my head.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Are you are you in my house?
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Like that's exactly you just described my kid.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: And so that opportunity to open up to shared experiences and compassion and also recognize that what you're struggling with, the changes, by the way, that you're trying to make, even though your kid says that you are the absolute only crazy parent that's trying to do this.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: No, that is not the case.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: You're not the only one.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: You are not the only one.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not, because we got a whole group of parents right here in the room.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: I just have to say that uh I really resonated with the finding candy wrappers under the bed thing because I find candy wrappers under the bed occasionally or wrappers of certain like junk foods that are not supposed to be eaten at nine at night.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: And so it happens to everybody.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: And like you said, I think these are very common.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: And I can tell that this type of practice really brings you a huge amount of purpose.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: But I think a lot of people are interested in finding that kind of a niche that they can deep dive in and that they can spend a lot of time with patients in, but then they're worried about some of the logistics.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: So what are the medical legal logistics that you had to navigate?
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, is there a malpractice issue?
18:42
SPEAKER_01: Are there agreements that you have to come to with patients because they're not you're not the primary pediatrician and things like that?
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: You have to be very clear about exactly what is it that you are doing, and also what are you absolutely not doing?
19:03
SPEAKER_00: And so when I'm having conversations with parents, yeah, this is not medical practice.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: And yet, this is absolutely supporting your family.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: And it's really meeting people where they are, and that's a big part of why I wanted to change this into a coaching-based uh practice as opposed to a medical model.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Families ask me all the time, well, do you accept insurance?
19:30
SPEAKER_00: I said, That's medical model.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing insurance doesn't know what to do with me because they're looking for what's the diagnosis, what's the threshold, what's the laboratory values that that we're addressing here.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: That is reserved for medical model.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: Now we're gonna be working on something that's completely beyond that.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: It's the conversations that you never get to have in the medical office because there's not enough time because you didn't know that it was related, because it's quite honestly about emotions.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, none of us were, you know, taught enough about discussing emotions and having conversations about it, but then also explaining, and this isn't therapy.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: And so there's a lot of getting really clear about that.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: And yes, agreements, yes, liability insurance, absolutely.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: You got to be able to cover your business structure, um, to be able to protect that, but also to be able to have that foundation, just like I was talking about foundation for health and and relationships, the foundation for your business, you need to know what specifically is your business model.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: So you have all the appropriate uh precautions, but all the appropriate kind of um structural uh uh aspects that have been covered.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: You're really creating something that is new.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: And while that can sound really scary, there's also so many opportunities in that.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: And so let's get more specific with this.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: In medical practice, you have malpractice.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: In a coaching practice or a consultation practice, um, get clear about what it is that you want to do as far as that structure, and then you have the liability insurance that you need for that.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: But you need to know what it is that you're going to be doing first, how you want to approach it.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: If you want to bring in anything that has to do with medical evaluation, with medical treatment, that's medical.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: And that is needing malpractice.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: And then really getting clear about that.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Because I think a lot of people are like, Well, I just want to go to coaching.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be easier.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to deal with all of the different things as far as like insurance or administrative types of things.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: Coaching.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Is not having an easier practice than medical practice.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: It's a different practice.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: Everything is different.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: And so I put that out there because quite honestly, it is much easier for me to just say, I'm a physician.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Are you hiring physicians right now?
22:23
SPEAKER_00: Because I can do that.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: We speak the same language.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, you need a pediatrician?
22:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm a pediatrician.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like easy plug and play.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: And for employment purposes, yeah, that makes sense.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: With creating a different type of practice, you may very well be creating something that does not exist right now.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: There's no name for it.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: There's um no set like descriptor that people can say, oh, that's exactly what it is.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: I know what it is.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna say that from the example of going from a pediatric practice to a coaching practice where I'm working with families that parents are worried about their children's weight, worried about their children's eating habits, and trying to figure out how to create changes without all the food fights, without all the harm.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: What on earth do you describe that as?
23:15
SPEAKER_00: So that parents say, oh, that's exactly what it is.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: That's the challenge.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it comes down to messaging and marketing, but first me getting clear about what am I doing?
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Am I taking this from a medical approach?
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Am I saying this is weight loss?
23:34
SPEAKER_00: People know what weight loss is.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Am I taking this from an obesity um management clinic?
23:42
SPEAKER_00: People know what that is now.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going through each of these and saying, no, no, no, that's not what this is.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: And so I have to get very clear with myself what my practice is and then how I want to structure it.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: So I went with the coaching practice, not because it's easier.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: My God, it is so much harder.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna put it out there.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: It is so much harder because I'm doing something that doesn't exist right now or hadn't existed.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And the reason why is because I want to be able to lean into prevention.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: I want to be able to go into those gray zones where it's like, well, this is not obesity, this is not eating disorders, what are we doing?
24:29
SPEAKER_00: What is in the in-between?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: That's what I've created.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: And so I know this is a long-winded answer to your question about business structure, but it's like getting clear what is it that you want to do?
24:41
SPEAKER_00: And then you start creating the structure to be able to support you and then be clear with everybody that you speak with.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: What kind of training did you feel like you had to go through to make this transition?
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Because I know you you said lifestyle medicine, um, you know, also coaching training.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: What kind of things did you do to feel like that you were prepared to do this kind of a practice?
25:05
SPEAKER_00: So none of it is specifically preparing me for doing this type of a practice.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: All of the things that I've done contribute to it, but I hesitate on saying this is the path and this is the next credential that you need.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, we come by that so honestly as physicians, thinking, well, I need this credential in order to do it, in order to say that I'm ready or trained, whatever it is.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I have a lot of experiences that have continued to inform and refine my approach.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Being a board-certified pediatrician, I've learned a lot in that practice that I'm like, you know what, this doesn't satisfy everything.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna keep on going.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: And that's how I found lifestyle medicine, where I was like, you know, there's got to be something more.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, there's more people that are speaking the same way I do.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: So, in a lot of ways, my training has been fulfilling a need for me for more in-depth conversations, but also for being around people that look at things a little bit differently than what the status quo is.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: As far as coaching, you can easily call yourself a coach.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just like that.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: You say it out loud, I'm a coach.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're a coach.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: But actually having the coaching methodology, as in this is what coaching is, this is what it means to ethically be a coach and not just hang up your shingle and just decide one day, I'm a coach.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: This is a coaching practice.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: I have done extensive training in a lot of different methodologies in order to make it my own, but also to know what coaching is and to know what coaching isn't.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: And again, that is creating the foundation for me to be able to create a business, a practice that I know what I'm doing and I know what I'm not doing.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: So there's no one path.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: There is no one path.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: And that also makes it really magical because you get to make it your own, which is very different from this is the path to medical school, this is the path through residency, this is the path to saying I am board-certified specialist in this area.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: Um I think of it as getting to have some fun with it right now.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Scary as anything, because you're like, my God, Wendy, just tell me exactly what I need to do.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: That is so true.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: And I think uh all of us are trained to want a very clear path, a very prescribed path that has a particular number of hoops that you jump through.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting that you're pointing out that there is not a particular prescribed path.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: And also at the same time, you're pointing out that you've chosen to do something that is kind of gray as well.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: It's people who want more education and who want help and support in an area of healthy eating and good eating practices and things like that, but it's not weight loss and it's not a medical diagnosis.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: It's like somewhere in between.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: And so this comes with so much uncertainty.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: What kind of mindset practices personally have you used to deal with uncertainty in your life and in your business?
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, you're speaking to my demons.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: They're there.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, that's the part that makes this so hard, you know, where I'm saying that coaching, setting up a coaching practice, really defying that I think that you're facing uncertainty square in the face and be like, and I choose this, which is, you know, its own adventure.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think that yeah, I'm choosing it more and more every day and kind of changing the patterns of thought.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: So the tricks where I recognize that I thought I had certainty all those years in medicine.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: I was like going down this like certain path.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: And let's be clear, it was not all certain.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: But kind of going along with this, I don't know, the tide.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: And now I'm going against the tide in a lot of ways in the practice and the approach.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: For tools and tricks, I gotta tell you, one of the number one things that I lean on is my experience in improv comedy.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: I know you didn't, nobody sees that coming.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: None of you were like, did not see that.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: So I started improv in a time where I just needed to get out of the house.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: I just felt really strung out that could not handle any more like kids fighting at home and everything.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, just I I gotta go out for an adult thing.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: And I found myself across the way practicing improv, just having some fun and playing.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: And it was really hard for me because I had to check who I was at the door.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Pediatrician, check the professional role at the door.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Nobody cares who you are here.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, come and create something new.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: Check that I was a mom.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't say those things, I don't do those things, that I was a military officer, like all the different things.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: I had to check it at the door.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: And then I had to go in and create something new.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, that is uncertain as anything.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Every scene, every relationship is brand new, scary and liberating as anything.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Because what I started doing more than anything was noticing that what I was practicing on stage was absolutely relevant to everything I was doing outside.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: Because every conversation, like right now, we're making it up as we're going right now.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: It life is unscripted.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: But I've been thinking the entire time that I need to have a script.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: I've been thinking that I need to know where I'm going with this.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: That there's a perfect order of steps, whatever it is.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: No, it's all uncertain.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: And as I embrace that more and more, I get to have more fun with it.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: So I I've done a lot of improv comedy, taking improv into my programming, into the day-to-day, you know, conversations and relationships.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: That's where it's meaningful for me.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: I love this.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And it is so scary to me.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: I can't even imagine doing it.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: How long have you been doing that?
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, goodness, 10, 11 years, somewhere around in there.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the concepts that they do is they tell you before you go out on stage and not go out there and fail.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Always like, I'm sorry, I don't fail.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Do you mean?
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: That's not in our vocabulary.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: And one of the messages behind that is if you're not going out there and tempting failure, you're just doing the same thing.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: You're doing what you know, you're playing it safe.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: And you will never know what's going to land or what isn't going to land unless you go out there and tempt failure.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: I love that you have that background.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: I haven't had anyone on the show where that was their answer to how they navigate uncertainty, but it makes so much sense.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: And I bet you it's so powerful.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: So, Wendy, it sounds like you've navigated these identity changes beautifully, also knowing that identity doesn't necessarily mean what we think it means when you have an experience like an improv where you have to check it all at the door.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: Is there any other piece of advice that you would like to give listeners who feel like they're stuck, who feel like that they can't do something out of the box and who are wondering how they can make a change?
32:58
SPEAKER_00: So I want to call it out.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't have it all figured out.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm still working through this every single day.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: And so there is no such thing as having it all sorted out, having, you know, all of your identity stuff.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, you can ask any one of my family members.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: They're like, this is kind of ugly.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Are you sure you want to do this every single day?
33:25
SPEAKER_00: And I I think we need to call this out.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: There is this persona and the perf like that that picture.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: It's not the perfection, but we think that it looks a certain way.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you've achieved this.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: You've gotten, you know, to this point, you've figured it all out.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: I still am every single day.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: We often look at like the metrics of success of like revenue generated or number of lives impacted.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think one of the things we need to talk about with creating your own practice is the number of tears that have been shed.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Like the discomfort and just understand that.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: And so this is this is a chance to just be real and to say, as you're uncertain, as you don't know, you know what?
34:17
SPEAKER_00: None of us do.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: None of us do.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: If someone's sounding like they are really, really crystal clear, that's awesome for them.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: And don't make that sound like that you have to be or that you will be.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: You still just do it.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: You're figuring it out all along the way, and it's gonna be uncomfortable.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Very true, very true.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: And I love how this conversation has gone in so many different directions.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for being on the show today.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Where can people learn more about your work or connect with you if they want to ask you a question?
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: So, part of my challenge to myself is putting myself out there.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: So there's a number of different places to find me.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, one, you can learn so much more about family in focus at WendyshoferMD.com.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm trusting the spelling will be in the show notes.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Of course, uh yeah, you you can learn so much more, even so, like my my step one with with families, like what I've been really putting out um in the community on socials, because I'm on Facebook, Insta, TikTok, YouTube.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm really focusing on my first step that's called No More Candy Wrappers Under the Bed.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Now, here's the thing as I'm talking about, you know, eating disorder prevention for families and trying to find how is it that I bring families in.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: I mentioned the name, I mentioned the marketing because we're all figuring it out as we go.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: There is no one perfect answer.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: And what is it that connects us so that we can continue to work together?
36:05
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, go go check it out.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I I would love to be able to have an ongoing discussion.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: Wendy, thank you again so much.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Don.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: Wendy and I really went in so many different directions in this conversation, but I really enjoyed it.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Here are my takeaways from our interview today.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: Number one, when you're venturing off into uncharted territory, there are so many ways you can go.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: The sky's the limit in terms of how you can invent yourself and what kind of training you might want to complete to get there.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: But get clear on your intentions.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Who are you wanting to serve and what specifically are you wanting to do for them?
36:50
SPEAKER_01: This will help when obtaining the correct legal protections for whatever you're going to practice.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: And you're also going to have to repeatedly explain what you do to people.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: That includes referral doctors, legal teams, fundraising, and potential patients or clients.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Number two, certainty is a myth.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: So you might as well embrace uncertainty and train for it in everyday life as well.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Wendy talked about how much improv has helped her navigate uncertainty in her coaching practice and in her life in general.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: I think the key to this is not necessarily the specifics of doing improv, but it's really more about being a beginner again.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: So you can get this with a lot of different activities.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: We're all highly trained professionals and we're used to being experts.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: But when is the last time you did something where you were a rote beginner?
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Being a beginner again forces you not only to step outside your comfort zone of being an expert, but it also forces you to strip away the identities that you might be hiding behind.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: This kind of experience can translate to a better handling of uncertainty and other challenges that come up in your professional world.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: Number three, failure is a good thing.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: Failure is helpful.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: Wendy talked about people during improv encouraging her to fail.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: When you go rock climbing and you're about to set out on a route, you often say to your belayer, climbing, and then the belayer responds, climb on.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: And that just means everybody's ready to go.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes, especially when you're doing a particularly challenging route, people will say, flailing, and the belayer will yell back, flail on.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: And I always love this because not only is it humble, but it also acknowledges the truth that you are going to flail sometimes.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: And flailing is the same thing as failing.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily a bad thing.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: It's all part of the process, it's part of growth.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: So, what can you learn from it?
38:54
SPEAKER_01: And what can you do differently next time?
38:58
SPEAKER_01: My parting question for you today is about being a beginner.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: What is one thing you could try that would have you in the beginner's mindset again?
39:07
SPEAKER_01: Is there a sport, a creative endeavor, or a business practice that you've been thinking about, but you haven't set out to try?
39:15
SPEAKER_01: Share yours by leaving me a fan mail message through your podcast listening app.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: There is a link in your show notes, making a comment on the blog post associated with this episode at practicebalance.com, or sending me a DM on Instagram.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm PracticeBalance.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to the Lean Up Podcast.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: If you find these conversations inspiring and useful, please forward them to a friend and also leave a review on iTunes or Spotify so that other people can find them YouTube.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: If you want to get in touch with me, you can find me at my website, practicedown.com, or you can subscribe to my newsletter and get updates regularly about new button.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: You can also support my work by finding my books.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: Have a great day, and we'll see you next time.