Latest / Pod Save America / “All that pizzazz.” (Debate recap special!)

Transcript

“All that pizzazz.” (Debate recap special!) · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: The big pod today, guys. We have about a year's
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: worth of impeachment news and the fifth Democratic primary debate
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: to cover. Before that, a few housekeeping notes. First episode
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: of Tommy's limited series, On the Ground in Iowa, came
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: out in the Pod Save America feed this week.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Sure did.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Sure did, Tommy.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: Listen to it. It sets up the stakes of the
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: Iowa caucuses. You wonder why we all talk about Iowa
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: all the time.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's great.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: It's really great. It's a Midwestern state.
• 0:49
  Speaker 5: Why?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Who cares? I'll tell you why it cares. Listen to it.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Listen to it.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: Also, feel free to listen to Pod Save the World
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: this week. I know you people are focused on impeachment,
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: but you cannot let world events pass you by. A
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: lot's happening in Hong Kong, Bolivia. We talked about impeachment
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: as well because we know where our bread is buttered.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I thought the only foreign policy issue right now that's
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: important is Ukraine.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: It's Nellie Orr.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: It is what Alexandra Chalupa did.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Speaking of Iowa, Love It or Leave It is going
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: to Iowa City on January 30th.
• 1:18
  Speaker 5: Iowa City, January 30th.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Get your tickets.
• 1:21
  Speaker 5: Crooked.com slash events.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: On sale Friday at 10 a.m. Central. That's tomorrow. Is
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: that tomorrow? I don't know what day it is.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: I thought it was Friday.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: We're recording this Thursday. Friday, tomorrow, Friday is when Love
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: It or Leave It tickets are on sale.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Are you going to announce your run?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: If you need guest ideas, let me know.
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to carve out a lane between where Pete
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: Buttigieg was three months ago and where he is now.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Leave that in. Leave it in. That was good.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: That was funny.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: That's your problem.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Why can't anyone do that on a stage of debates?
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: These people, they don't debate well. Just, you know, make
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: it some jokes.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: This week is the last episode of America Dissected with
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Abdul El-Sayed. Abdul breaks down the 2020 Democrat candidates' health
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: care plans and then sits down with our friend, activist
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Adi Barkin.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: It's a really great episode. Yeah, look, I've listened to
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: all of Abdul's episodes. It's a great show.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: Every time I hear Adi speak, I am reminded how
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: much better of a human being I could be.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: And he's inspiring.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: It's a much better discussion of the candidate health care
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: plans than we've seen in any of the debates.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Abdul is so good at explaining the basic... Why Medicare
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: for all is different than a buy-in than some of
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: the other plans. It's so good.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Finally, after seeing how fast you all raised a million
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: dollars for Fair Fight, we doubled our goal because protecting
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: the votes we need is the most important thing we
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: can do ahead of 2020. So please go to votesaveamerica.com
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: slash Fair Fight and please chip in. We're trying to
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: raise another million dollars. So please do that.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Where are the jelly beans?
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: They're here somewhere.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: They're on the corner. I don't know.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Elijah keeps them all in his pocket.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: They're on the hallway between... That helps he's always wearing
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: cargo pants. They're on the way to the bathroom.
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: So I think I've watched half the staff eat about
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: 20 grand worth of jelly beans.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I eat a handful every trip.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: It's disgusting.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Did you guys see, though, that all the candidates.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: That money comes out of Stacey Abrams' pocket.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, sorry. A lot of candidates. Cory Booker. I think
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Amy Klobuchar went to the Fair Fight office to hang
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: out with their staff.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Fantastic.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Very cool. All right.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Well, please donate, everyone. VoteSaveAmerica.com slash Fair Fight.
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 3:21
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to read a few very large headlines
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: from today's front pages. New York Times, quote, We followed
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: the president's orders. Right across the top. Sondland names top
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: officials in Ukraine push. Washington Post, quote, Diplomat acknowledges quid
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: pro quo. And the Wall Street Journal, owned by Rupert Murdoch, quote,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Envoy says Trump directed effort. So yeah, Trump megadonor turned...
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: European Union Ambassador Gordon Sondland testified on Wednesday that Trump
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: directed him and other government officials to carry out the
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Ukrainian bribery and extortion scheme and that, quote, everyone was
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: in the loop about it, including the vice president, the
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: secretary of state, the acting chief of staff, and the
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: national security advisor. How important of a witness is Gordon
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Sondland to this whole deal? And why does his testimony
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: matter so much? Dan, let's start with you.
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: Damn it.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: You made the mistake of looking at me.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: I know, it's my fault. Lava was very, very seriously
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: hurting his eyes.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: No, I was looking at Dan.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: I wanted Dan to feel that.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I'm doing the Elizabeth Warren style of teaching.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: There's a law school class.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she calls out the candidates.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: It's a Socratic method.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: It's a Socratic method, yeah.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, thank you. The significance of Gordon Sondland is twofold. One,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: as you point out, he is someone who gave $ 1
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: million to Trump. He is not a DSA operative. He
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: is not a John Brennan acolyte. He is not a
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: career foreign policy professional.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: He is someone- He's an always Trumper.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: He's an always- He's sort of a- He's always Trumper.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: He's an ex-never Trumper become very expensive always Trumper.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: But he is someone that Donald Trump put into government.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: And the second important piece of it is the Republicans
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: have been yelling hearsay about all the other witnesses. And
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: we now have in Gordon Sondland someone who spoke directly
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: to the president and in doing so told the congressional
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: committee in America, that it was a quid pro quo.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: And that is so important because the Republicans said from
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: the very beginning, this is okay as long as it's
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: not a quid pro quo. And we now have a
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: Trump appointee, a Trump donor, saying that the president asked
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: him to do something that was a quid pro quo.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Case closed. And he revised his earlier testimony. to say
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: that there's a quid pro quo because he didn't at first.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: And the reason he had to is because everyone else
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: who was with Gordon Sumlin testified that there was a
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: quid pro quo. And so he really had no choice.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Memory's a funny thing, John.
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think what we've seen, right, is
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: systematically Schiff calling witnesses that eliminate Republican talking points one
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: by one by one. It started with, you know, we
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: need to heal from the whistleblower. And then, of course,
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: everything the whistleblower says is corroborated. Then we hear that
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: it's hearsay. Then we get testimony from people who heard
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: the call, who are on the call.
• 6:19
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: Something that they repeatedly went back to witnesses like Vindman
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: and others that you heard the information.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: With Sondland, we now have somebody who was in the
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: scheme directly in the scheme with the president saying he
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: was following the president's orders. So you could they can
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: no longer hang their hat on. This was Rudy or
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: this was other parts of the administration. And, you know,
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: we talked about this. On Monday, which is like, what
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: can we expect from someone like Sondland? And, you know,
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: always Trump or never Trump or Sondland would have donated
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: a million dollars to Jeb Bush. to get an ambassadorship,
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: he would have donated a million to Romney.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe Hillary Clinton, who knows?
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: Maybe Hillary Clinton, right?
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: And honestly, probably would have worked.
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: Drain this one. But Gordon Sondland isn't in this for
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: a MAGA revolution. He was in this to host fancy
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: dinners in Brussels and see Ambassador on placards when he
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: gets his table at weddings.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And hang out with Jay Leno, apparently.
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and who wouldn't want to hang out with.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Jay Leno checking out some older cars? You know, what
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: a dream.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: So I think it was interesting, like heading into this hearing,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: everyone was like, what's Gordon Sondland going to do? Because
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: he not only he revised his first testimony because he
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: had a refreshed recollection that was refreshed because other witnesses
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: testified something different than Sondland had. And then since that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: first revised testimony, additional witnesses like David Holmes, who we're
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: hearing from today, heard additional stories about Sondland talking to
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: the president about the scheme.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: Listen, guys, I don't know what you guys think you
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: know about Gordon Sondland, but here's what I can tell you.
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: He's going to have a good time doing whatever he does.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: So he was up there in the dais. He was laughing.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: He was smiling and then giving us quotes like, we
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: followed the president's orders. The president directed us to do
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: so at the express direction of the president of the
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: United States.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: The other thing that Gordo did that made me smile
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: as brightly as he smiled was he threw his arms
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: around Everyone in the White House. Why do you think
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: he did that? Everyone in the NSC. Because they're out
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: there trying to say that he went rogue.
• 8:19
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: This clown is not going rogue to manufacture a quid
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: pro quo for military aid. What's the upside there for
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: Gordon Sondland? It doesn't move rooms in a hotel. Pompeo
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: was in on this. Mulvaney was in on it. Mike
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: Pence was in on it. So that is a gift
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: to Democrats because I think the Republicans are clearly covering
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: up and forbidding to testify anyone with absolute direct knowledge
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: of a conversation with a quid pro quo. And now
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: I think this gives us great ground to say those
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: people have to testify.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it makes sense from Sondland, too. Like,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: it's clear that... So everyone was in the loop. It's
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: clear that some people in the loop were more willing
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: participants in this scheme than others. But what Sondland's trying
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: to say is, like, even though Bolton is out there
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: calling it a drug deal and Mulvaney didn't want this
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: part of it and, you know, Volker's trying to get
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: himself out of it, everyone knew. They knew. Everyone knew
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: that was going on.
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's an important point, too, because I
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: think what you saw from Volker and Sondland is... a
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: desperate attempt to preserve some semblance that they were unwilling
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: participants or naive participants in the scheme, right? That was
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: one of the big, I think, friction points between various
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: witnesses over the course of the week. What did it
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: mean when Donald Trump said he wanted to investigate Burisma?
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: And you have multiple witnesses saying, Everyone knew exactly what
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: that meant.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I heard the word Burisma. I Googled it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Tim Morrison said this, yeah.
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: And then I knew exactly what he was talking about. Also,
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: it's undercut by the fact that Donald Trump himself was
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: connecting Burisma and Biden. But nonetheless, you had people like
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: Volker and to some extent, lesser extent, Sondland, but still
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: claiming that, you know, they only later understood that it
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: was a direct connection to Joe Biden because they're trying
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: to describe the criminal conspiracy while acting as though they
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: were not wholly participating in it.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Do you think Tim Morrison is going to want to
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: refresh his recollection about the veracity of Google results since
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: it told us all he was 7-1? Good point.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: We had a long conversation about that.
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: The guy lost seven inches of height over the course
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: of the week.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: We also know, though, and this is like a Watergate comparison,
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: that the discussions of this quid pro quo and the
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: shakedown of the Ukrainians happened in the oval office. He
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: testified that on May 23rd, there was an oval office
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: meeting where Trump told the Ukraine team to work with Rudy.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: We all know what that means.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think so. So the Republican defense of this, which, uh,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: came from the people on the committee, Kevin McCarthy, and
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: then Donald Trump, when he went out to the cameras
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: and wrote himself sort of, um, Like a little bit
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: of some beat poetry.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: It's like between a cue card and a note.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Where he was saying, you know, Sondland had testified that
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: in a call with Trump in early September, Trump said,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I don't want anything from Ukraine. I don't want a
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: quid pro quo. I just want Zelensky to do the
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: right thing. And so Trump and the Republicans are saying,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: case closed. Trump said that he didn't want a quid
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: pro quo. What is the problem with that explanation?
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: I'll tell you one big problem.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: It was after he was caught.
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: And the only reason, like Donald Trump, I don't know
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: if you guys know this, not a student of Latin.
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: The only reason the words quid pro quo were in
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: his fucking head is because he'd just been caught in
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: a quid pro quo. So Gordon Sondland now naively claiming
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: he was just confused about America's policy. No, he was
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: getting on the phone with the president because there's a
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: bunch of conflicting shit and he was not going to
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: be the one to lead the quid pro quo. So
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: he went back to Trump and he said- what's going
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: on here, Mr.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: President?
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: And of course, Trump, knowing as the exquisite mob boss
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: that he is, that he's not supposed to directly direct
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: the crime, he goes, no quid pro quo, no quid
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: pro quo. I just wanted to do, quote, the right thing,
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: which everyone knew what it meant.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Everyone knew. Donald Trump has never, ever told anyone to
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: do the right thing.
• 11:54
  Speaker 8: Ever.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: And the White House had been notified about the whistleblower complaint. Yeah,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, let's just do the
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: timeline for everyone here. Early September, the White House counsel
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: is told about the whistleblower complaint. Then September 9th, Donald
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Trump tells Sondland, I don't want to quid pro quo.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: But by the way, even after he's caught, then says,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I don't want to quid pro quo, but I really
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: want Zelensky to do the investigations. And still the plan was, again,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Donald and Sondland testified to this too, Donald Trump did
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: not care as much about the investigations themselves as he
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: did the public announcement of the investigation by Zelensky on CNN.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Because all he wanted to do was smear his political opponent.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: He did not want the investigation.
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: John, are you going to suggest to us right now
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: on this podcast that he was not interested in ferreting
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: out deep-rooted corruption inside of Ukraine, but rather simply wanted
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: someone to go to the cameras to attack Joe Biden
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: for the purposes of his domestic political interests?
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: And again, no matter... Every single witness, they've all come
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: from like different parts of the government, whether it's like
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: a political person like Sondland or these nonpartisan public officials.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: They have all, all of them testified to this fact
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: that any investigation into Joe Biden's actions to which Burisma
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: is phony and not warranted, that any investigation into this
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: ridiculous conspiracy about the Ukrainians interfering in 2016 is ridiculous.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: They've all testified to that.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: Sondland said he knows directly that the White House meeting
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: was part of a quid pro quo, right? That he
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: had direct evidence of that from Trump, from everybody else.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: He assumed that the military aid was part of that
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: quid pro quo as well. David Holmes this morning testified
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: to how important that White House meeting was for Zelensky
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: and the Ukrainian government, because it shows Putin that the
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: United States has Ukraine's back and that they shouldn't invade
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: the rest of it. And it also backs up Zelensky,
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: who ran on an anti-corruption message. Now, that meeting still
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: hasn't happened. So I just thought it was a nice,
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: important moment that spoke to how much Donald Trump's actions
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: are actually harming the government of Ukraine and the people
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: of Ukraine.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: The other important thing here is, you know, the Republicans
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: are also saying, well, there's still no proof. You know,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: someone said he presumed that the aid was tied to everything.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And you still don't have a smoking gun that the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: aid was actually tied to the investigations. Well, seems like
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: a few problems with that. Number one. The White House
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: chief of staff went on national television and said that
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: he did withhold the aid for at least one of
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the investigations into the 2016 interference.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: That doesn't count.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: He just said it, guys.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but he said it like a week ago. So
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: how are we supposed to deal with that?
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: And the other thing is just the timeline, right? We
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: know for a fact that Donald Trump suspended the aid
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: a week before the famous call with Zelenskyy. And then
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: he released the aid right after he got caught. Right.
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: That's what they've never they've never been able.
• 14:45
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: Because this is after after the due diligence was done
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: to make sure, you know, that it met corruption standards
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: so that the money should be released.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: All of that is already done. They're still holding up
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: the aid for what, 55 days. Still to this day,
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: we have no real cogent explanation for what the purpose
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: of those 55 days are. They've tried to make some
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: claim that that finally Zelensky passed muster with corruption watchdog
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Also not true.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: So. had passed muster long before that.
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: That is one of the challenges for Democrats because, yes,
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: the Republican arguments about the fact that it's hearsay have
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: been completely erased by the direct testimony of a bunch
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: of witnesses, but they have prevented people like Mulvaney, like Bolton,
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: and several others who very clearly know, and if we're
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: asked under oath what happened with the aid, would have
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: to say that there was a clear connection between Donald
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: Trump's decision to withhold the aid and the investigation of
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: the Bidens. And they have prevented those witnesses from speaking
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: because they know that it will remove the last read
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: that they've been able to kind of hang their defense on.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Though again, you know, what one of the Democrats might say,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: but Mulvaney said it on TV, why the aid was withheld,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: and which is why the White House then had a
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: complete meltdown over Mulvaney's remarks and so did other Republicans.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: But let's just do the hypothetical. Let's say, go back
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: in time and the courts are still fair and not
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: rigged and The courts insist that Mulvaney and Bolton testify,
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: and they go up there and they say, yes, it
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: was tied. The Republican argument just moves again, which is
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: where this is always going, which is it is the
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: president's power in their authority to push their foreign policy.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: This was his foreign policy. They will just blur the
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: lines between Burisma and Biden, which we know is all bullshit,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: but there is not some witness piece of evidence revelation
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: that that will cause the Republican position to change. It's
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: an important expectation, I think, for all of us to
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: hold on to and to share with everyone else, because
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: if we're waiting for some sort of movement, then there's
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: nothing to suggest that's going to happen.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: I agree with you, Dan, but I do think that
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: the messaging argument that there is a cover-up happening is
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: evidence of a crime to a lot of people, including
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: the key swing voters we're trying to educate. And I
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: also think, like, if there is a John Bolton testimony
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: where he says, yes, Trump told me to do this,
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: that would be blockbuster news, that I agree with you,
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: we'll never lose Lindsey Graham. and probably won't lead to
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: impeachment because they're shameless. But I do think, you know,
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: if we're thinking about this as an educational opportunity for
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: the country, like it would go up.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm, I'm very pro Bolton Mulvaney testimony. I'd like
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: it to start around 11 Eastern if possible, but I
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: am in general for the idea.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: So that brings me to last question on this before
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: we go to the whole debate. Um, So we've all
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: heard publicly and even on background from Republicans, like you said,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: that none of this has changed their minds because polls
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: haven't changed. And this is all fine. And they're all
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: just like bullshitting their way through this. How do Democrats
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: handle that posture? And what can we do to, if
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: not change minds, make this whole thing as politically uncomfortable
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: for Republicans as possible?
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: So I think there's I think you can look to
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: the way the Republicans have handled this. hearings themselves for
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: a direction, or at least an understanding of what's happening
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: kind of politically. Because I think you've seen two sets
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: of arguments taking place in parallel. One is the Nunes,
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: Jim Jordan kind of right-wing fanfic Ukraine was in cahoots
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: with the Clinton campaign. This was a conspiracy to undermine
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: our elections. Donald Trump was concerned about that corruption, et cetera,
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: et cetera, et cetera. And we saw Fiona Hill today
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: just sort of in her opening statement explain why that
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: is not just wrong, but.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Harmful to U.S. national security.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Dangerously stupid.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: Dangerously stupid. But then I think beneath that, I think
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: sometimes in Castor's testimony, in some of the punditry around
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: the hearings, you see the more sophisticated Republican arguments, right?
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: That they haven't been able to establish that the aid
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: was a quid pro quo. If all they're describing is
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: a single meeting, that's not on grounds enough. It may
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: be wrong, but it's not impeachable conduct. That basically, this
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: has not been proven. But what you have seen is
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: some untoward conduct, well within the bounds of what a
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: president is allowed to do. There is a policy disagreement
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: here Donald Trump behaved inappropriately. He may have said things
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: he shouldn't have said, but ultimately the aid was released.
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: This is not impeachable conduct. This is a political maneuver
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: by Democrats to hurt Trump for his reelection, and we
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: won't participate in that. All that's a way of saying,
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: I think what Schiff has done over the course of
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: these hearings is systematically make it harder and harder for
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: Republicans to say anything other than, I don't care when
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump does something morally reprehensible, that all the rest
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: of it That all their exit ramps, all their defenses,
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: all of the hearsay question, the whistleblower question, everything else
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: gets stripped away and that all that is left is
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: for Republicans to accede to Donald Trump's reprehensible behavior.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: If you boil down all of the conspiracy theories, the
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: absurdity that they're saying. what the Republican position boils down
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: to is Trump's a criminal, but he's our criminal.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do think that, and the Democrats are
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: moving towards this, you can hear Schiff's closing statements every day,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: which everyone should go listen to because they're fantastic, are
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: sort of moving to this. Trump's abuse of power did
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: have to do with foreign policy and Ukraine, but for voters,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: for people here who really care about this, what it
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: really has to do with is Donald Trump has decided,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and if Republicans acquit him, they have decided that the
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: president is allowed to use the vast powers of his
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: office to destroy the lives of anyone who challenges him.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: And so if Joe Biden challenges him for election and
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Joe and Donald Trump is worried about him, he can
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: use the powers of the presidency whether it's military aid,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: whether it's meetings, whether it's diplomacy, whether it's anything else,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to destroy Joe Biden's reputation. And people should imagine that
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: happening to every other opponent that he faces, and perhaps
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: citizens in a second term, right?
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: Well, he directed it, Yovanovitch.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: What powers of the presidency could Donald Trump use to
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: make sure that Elizabeth Warren isn't under investigation, that he
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: can withhold federal aid to Harvard to make sure they
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: say something about her tenure as a professor? that he
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: can do something to the South Bend Police Department so
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: they can say something about Pete Buttigieg.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: For podcasters.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: No, I'm saying like, I really think that as we
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: get closer to the trial, the Democrats need to bring
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: this home to the American people about what this could
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: mean to have a president who uses his powers to
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: destroy his opponents.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: So your question is, what can the Democrats do to
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: make this as politically painful for the Republicans as possible?
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: And I don't think there's much more they can do
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: in the context of the hearing. I think Schiff has
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: been flawless. They have, laid this out in the most
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: compelling way possible. They have handled themselves with incredible decorum.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: They have not gotten sucked into the absurdities. You can just,
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: with every passing hour, watch the life drain out of
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Nunez and Jim Jordan and the like. They basically have
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: given up. And that is to the great credit of Schiff,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: his staff, the members on the committee, Nancy Pelosi, all
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: of them. The part where I am most concerned is
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: the stuff that's happening outside of the hearing room. There's
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: a story on BuzzFeed this morning about how In the
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: free media, Democrats are crushing Republicans. And on Facebook, Republicans
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: are crushing Democrats. And that the conspiracy theories, all this
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: stuff that Nunes and other people are saying that we
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: laugh about because it's so absurd is gaining real traction
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: and gaining real engagement in Facebook. And so the question is,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: what is the outside game? Because Republicans have a 38% strategy.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Their goal is to keep Trump's base with him. As
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: long as they keep the base with Trump, they're in
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: the game in 2020. If they lose the base, it's
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: all over. Democrats need a 15% strategy, right? For what
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: is that 15% group in the middle that who may
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: not consume this information organically, who may think generically that
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Trump is crime adjacent, but are concerned about the idea
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: of removing a president this close to the next or
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: concerned about just the distraction this causes from the issues
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: they care most about. What is our strategy for shaping
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: the conversation for those people? And there may be things
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: underway that we have not yet seen. But it's that
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: outside game that makes me the most concerned about how
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: this is going to play itself out over the next
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: couple of months.
• 23:16
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the Democratic primary debate. For the fifth time,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the top 10 polling candidates took the stage in Atlanta
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: on Wednesday night. Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg, Bernie Sanders,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, Amy Klobuchar, Andrew Yang, Cory Booker, Tom Steyer,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and Tulsi Gabbard. Still a lot, man. That's a lot
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: of people. They fielded questions from four moderators from MSNBC
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: and the Washington Post, all of whom were women, which
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: was a nice change. The debate lasted a little more
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: than two hours, and there were a pretty wide range
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: of topics discussed. So before we start talking about the
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: individual candidates, what did you all think of the debate overall,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: including moderators, format, topics, general impressions of the debate?
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I think the moderators made a very specific decision to
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: pivot away from how I think most of these debates
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: are concocted. Generally, they want to start out with a bang.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: The first question is designed to pit two frontrunners against
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: each other for the most conflict possible, draw the audience in,
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: make it exciting, reach the sufficient pizzazz meter required for
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: things to matter. And You know, I think this is
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: a tribute to the moderators and that they did not
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: do that, right? They just try, they did not seek
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: out conflict overtly, right? They just sort of ask questions,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: let the candidates do what they may. And I think
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: at times that could feel as a television viewer, not
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: exciting or, but I think if you're a voter trying
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: to understand who these candidates are and what they care
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: about and what they would do, it was a very
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: welcome change, I think.
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, at first I was a little worried we were
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: going back down the same health care path we've gone
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: through in every other debate where we end up hearing
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: a bunch of talking points that sort of semi-intellectually honest
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: talking points about the public option versus Medicare for all.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: But quickly it moved on to, I think, substantive issues
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: that hadn't been covered in previous debates, child care, voting
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: rights issues.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Climate, reproductive rights. Climate, reproductive rights. Tommy?
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought Senator Brian Schatz summarized it well when
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: he tweeted, this debate is dangerously close to being relevant
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: to normal people.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: I thought that was a very succinct take on it.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I like that we covered a lot of ground. It
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: wasn't a 45-minute cul-de-sac about the public option versus single-payer
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: or Medicare for all. And it was an interesting debate.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: So this was the first debate with Mayor Pete Buttigieg
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: as the frontrunner in Iowa. As expected, he was challenged
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: a bit more by both the moderators and the other candidates.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Here's his answer to Andrea Mitchell's question about his experience.
• 25:42
  Speaker 8: Because I have the right experience to take on Donald Trump.
• 25:46
  Speaker 8: I get that it's not traditional establishment Washington experience, but
• 25:51
  Speaker 8: I would argue we need something very different right now
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: in order to defeat this president. We need somebody who
• 25:57
  Speaker 8: can go toe to toe, who actually comes from the
• 26:01
  Speaker 8: kinds of communities that he's been appealing to. I don't
• 26:04
  Speaker 8: talk a big game about helping the working class while
• 26:07
  Speaker 8: helicoptering between golf courses with my name on them. I
• 26:11
  Speaker 8: don't even golf. As a matter of fact, I never
• 26:14
  Speaker 8: thought I'd be on a Forbes magazine list, but they
• 26:17
  Speaker 8: did one of all the candidates by wealth, and I
• 26:19
  Speaker 8: am literally the least wealthy person on this stage. I
• 26:22
  Speaker 8: also wore the uniform of this country and know what
• 26:25
  Speaker 8: is at stake in the decisions that are made in
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: the Oval Office in this situation room.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: What did you guys think?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Good answer.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: It's a great answer. It's a great fucking answer. Pete
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: is always prepared. He knew that was coming. He had
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: a well-prepared answer. He delivered it well.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: His answer on experience and then later sort of Klobuchar
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: challenges him on an experience question. He talks about how,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: you know, Everyone on the stage has a combined hundred
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: years of total experience in Washington, and I certainly don't
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: have that. Didn't land quite as well, but his answer
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: in general on his lack of traditional political and governmental
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: experience does remind me of how Obama used to answer
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the question vis-a-vis Hillary Clinton in 2008, which is, it's
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: not the longevity of your experience and how much time
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: you spent in government. It's the kind of experience you have.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: And he used the kind of experience that he has
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: to make an electability argument, which we also know is
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: incredibly important against Donald Trump. So I may not have
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the traditional kind of experience, but here are the contrasts
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: between me and Donald Trump that make me a more
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: potent candidate.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: What I think is really interesting is he is not
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: answering the question of, will he have the experience to
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: be president? He's taken that question to electability.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Which is the best way to beat an incumbent is
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: to run the opposite. And he is the, he is
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: the most, in his mind, in his case, I don't know,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: this is, I don't think this is, Other candidates would
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: quibble with that. But because of his service, his age,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: where he's from, his background, he's the opposite of Trump
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: and therefore draws the sharpest contrast.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: And you saw, by the way, we were all complimenting
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris's latest ad that she put up right before
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: the debate. She did something similar in that ad where
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: she said, here's my background. Here's Donald Trump's background. I
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: am the complete opposite of Donald Trump. I am the anti-Trump.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: And I do think In general, making that kind of
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: electability argument is good. I mean, I think voters probably
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: also want a comfort level with your experience to be
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: president as well. But in the short term, people are
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: so focused on winning that the electability argument probably helps.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I think that is so secondary now because of Trump.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: That's probably.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: Also, it's interesting, too. Like, I remember, you know, Obama
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: would make that argument and then the Republicans would defend
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: Sarah Palin. She has the same level of experience. But
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: one other thing that's important is it's not just it's
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: not just the argument it's making. It's how he conveys it.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:44
  Speaker 7: He.
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: He carries himself with authority and with a sense of poise,
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: a sense that he is up to this challenge. And
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: I think you would look at Obama versus Sarah Palin,
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: she claiming her two years of governing experience, his two
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: years in the Senate, but you look at Barack Obama
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: and you say, this is somebody with the qualities I
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: look for in a president. I think Pete is trying
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: to demonstrate those qualities while making an electability argument.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: So a little bit later in the debate, There was
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: an exchange between Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg over Harris's
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: recent comments that the Democratic nominee has got to be
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: someone who has the experience of connecting with all Americans,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: including black Americans. Let's play that exchange.
• 29:23
  Speaker 9: The question has to be where you've been and what
• 29:28
  Speaker 9: are you going to do? And do you understand who
• 29:30
  Speaker 9: the people are? And I'm running for president because I
• 29:36
  Speaker 9: believe that we have to have leadership in this country.
• 29:40
  Speaker 9: who has worked with and have the experience of working
• 29:43
  Speaker 9: with all folks. And we've got to recreate the Obama
• 29:46
  Speaker 9: coalition to win. And that means about women, that's people
• 29:49
  Speaker 9: of color, that's our LGBTQ community, that's working people, that's
• 29:52
  Speaker 9: our labor unions. But that is how we are going
• 29:55
  Speaker 9: to win this election, and.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: I intend to win.
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: Senator Harris, thank you.
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: Mayor Buttigieg, your.
• 29:59
  Speaker 10: Response to that?
• 30:01
  Speaker 8: My response is I completely agree. And I welcome the
• 30:05
  Speaker 8: challenge of connecting with black voters in America who don't
• 30:09
  Speaker 8: yet know me. And before I share what's in my plans,
• 30:13
  Speaker 8: let me talk about what's in my heart and why
• 30:15
  Speaker 8: this is so important. As mayor of a city that
• 30:19
  Speaker 8: is racially diverse and largely low income, for eight years
• 30:23
  Speaker 8: I have lived and breathed the successes and struggles of
• 30:26
  Speaker 8: a community where far too many people live with the
• 30:29
  Speaker 8: consequences of racial inequity that has built up over centuries
• 30:33
  Speaker 8: but been compounded by policies and decisions from within living memory.
• 30:39
  Speaker 8: I care about this because my faith teaches me that
• 30:42
  Speaker 8: salvation has to do with how I make myself useful
• 30:46
  Speaker 8: to those who have been excluded, marginalized, and cast aside
• 30:51
  Speaker 8: and oppressed in society. And I care about this because
• 30:55
  Speaker 8: while I do not have the experience of ever having
• 30:58
  Speaker 8: been discriminated against because of the color of my skin,
• 31:02
  Speaker 8: I do have the experience of sometimes feeling like a
• 31:05
  Speaker 8: stranger in my own country, turning on the news and
• 31:07
  Speaker 8: seeing my own rights come up for debate and seeing
• 31:11
  Speaker 8: my rights expanded by a coalition of people like me
• 31:15
  Speaker 8: and people not at all like me working side by side,
• 31:19
  Speaker 8: shoulder to shoulder. Making it possible for me to be
• 31:22
  Speaker 8: standing here wearing this wedding ring in a way that
• 31:24
  Speaker 8: couldn't have happened two elections ago lets me know just
• 31:27
  Speaker 8: how deep my obligation is to help those whose rights
• 31:30
  Speaker 8: are on the line every day, even if they are
• 31:32
  Speaker 8: nothing like me in their experience.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: So let's start with Kamala on this one. I thought that,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: you know, that was a great answer. And I thought
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: she had a pretty strong night overall. One reason is
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: because she didn't really have as many sort of scripted lines.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: she kind of just let loose a little bit and
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: she seemed like just more comfortable. And I thought she
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: had some really strong moments. But what did you guys
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: think of Kamala in the debate?
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: I thought that was a strong moment from her. I mean,
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: she's going after something that's been clearly identified as a
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: weakness in Mayor Pete's support. But it's also an electability argument.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: It's telling voters in Iowa that this guy can't reach
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: the African-American community and get them to turn out for us.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: And we shouldn't presume that they will.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: That was a huge failure of 2016. So I think
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I think It's an argument that we will.
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: Probably see made more and more and more as we
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: go towards Iowa. I also thought Pete didn't necessarily help
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: himself with his response, and we'll get into that in
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: a minute. But Kamala Harris on TV later that night,
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: when talking about Pete's response, I thought made another very moving,
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: compelling argument about why communities that have been oppressed over
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: time shouldn't compare pain and how that's a very dangerous
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: road to go on.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: So She was very sharp last night.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: I thought this was actually probably her best debate performance.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: In the moment, we thought that first debate performance against
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: Biden was phenomenal. It obviously didn't have the impact I
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: think we all thought it would have at the time.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: But this was, it was not canned. It was authentic.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: It was powerful. It was, I think, the elements of
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Kamala Harris's candidacy that we have seen so much potential
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: in but have not manifested themselves in the polls recently.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: I also really appreciate the fact that she expanded the
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: conversation about electability to include how do you motivate base
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: Democratic voters, voters of color.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: So it's not like- Just as important as winning over,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: you know, Obama Trump voters or the people in the
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: middle of the country that, you know, like the Democrats
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: always talk, the pundits always talk about. They're both important.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: Right, that's the thing. This should not turn into Kamala
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Harris's theory is motivate the base and Pete Buttigieg's is
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: persuade swing voters. It's you have to do both. And
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Pete has made an argument that has worked with a
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: lot of voters in Iowa, it appears, that he would
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: be very strong at persuading Obama-Trump voters, independents. He has
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: not demonstrated or talked much about how he would get
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: base Democrats out. So I'm glad we're having that conversation.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: And it was clever in how it highlighted Pete's weakness
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: in this area, which also has the benefit of being self-perpetuating.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so how do you think Pete handled that response?
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, where he sort of... Because he's been getting
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: some criticism... Yeah.
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: You know, it's interesting. So you see what Pete's doing
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: and he's saying basically, all right, you know, I'm a
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: mayor from South Bend, Indiana. That presents a risk to you.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: How do I answer for that risk? And he's kind
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: of built, there's three pillars of it. One is I'm
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: up to the job of president. Here's what my experience is.
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: And like, you know, I'm not from Washington, but I
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: can make a compelling argument that I'm up for this task.
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: Then there is the electability argument and the way that
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: he has handled the electability argument is by showing you
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: the contrast. He did it at his LJ speech. He
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: did it last night. It's very, very good. He's very,
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: very good at this. This is the third piece of it,
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: which is, can I build the coalition we need to win?
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: And it is clearly where he is the weakest substantively,
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: just on the facts. He is a mayor of a
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: city in Indiana. He's only gotten, what, 10,000 votes. In
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: the polls, he is much lower amongst people of color.
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: It is a huge liability that he has to answer for.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: You know, He very clearly in his answer, basically referring
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: to being gay as a, he was very aware of
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: the risks and the inappropriateness of a direct comparison between
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: being gay and being a person of color. He obviously
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: didn't say, I'm gay, so I get what it's like
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: to be black. He would never say that. Clearly doesn't
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: think that.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: He did say the, I mean, he said, I've never
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: had the experience of being discriminated against because of the
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: color of my skin. I have felt like a stranger
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: in my own country.
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: And I guess I think, the challenge for Pete is,
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: if you're going to say that, right, I want to,
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: I think the problem for him is not that he
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: introduced the idea of having felt marginalized. I think it
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: didn't feel that, it felt like he was testing it out.
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: It felt like even in the moment, like for, you know,
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: and not a lot, not a criticism of Pete. Like
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: this is just doesn't seem like something he was particularly
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: comfortable getting into. It felt like new to him. And
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: so I think if he's going to talk about the
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: way he has felt marginalized as a means of trying
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: to relate to people who have felt marginalized for different reasons.
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: Maybe it just is that the debate stage is a
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: really hard place to do that. Maybe it's something he
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: needs to expound on more deeply, because I think I
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: would like to hear more of that from Mayor Pete.
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: Explain what you mean.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Go further.
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: In the moment, I think it just just didn't land
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: that well.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: He was asked about why he gave that answer on
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: CNN after the debate in the context of there's been
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: some criticism of those comments already because it seemed to
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: compare the experience of gay Americans with the African-American community.
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: And he said he felt like he needed to go
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: beyond just saying what he would do for the African-American community,
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: but why he cared and what made him tick. And
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: I agree with you, though, that that didn't necessarily come through.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I think it could have been... if he had just
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: put a little bit more weight on, I've never had
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the experience of being discriminated against and I would never
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: compare it because I know that African Americans in this
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: country have had hundreds of years now of oppression and
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: from slavery through civil rights through today. In a smaller way,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you know, like he could have sort of just made
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: it a little more.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because here's the thing that I also believe is true.
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: I think that for, you know, Pete and I are
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: about the same age. I do think that the experience
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: of having been gay, of having felt as though he
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: was not welcome, marginalized, that he didn't feel as though
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: he was equal to other people, that he was a
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: part of conventional relationships, conventional standards for masculinity. It's clear
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: that in a lot of the ways he's tried to
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: build his campaign is to answer for that, right? That
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: that that, yeah, he's going to be the first gay candidate,
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: but look at this person.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: He's served.
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: He's achieved all these things. And so much about what
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: being gay is is a liability he's answering for. But
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: what he's doing for the very first time is saying, actually,
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: being gay is a strength that allowed me to see
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: the world through eyes that understood pain in ways that
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: you might not expect. If he's going to do that,
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: if he's going to say that, I think he has
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: to maybe go a little bit further.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: That's all. And clearly... I think his biggest challenge here
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: is his very weak support in the African-American community, which
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: is zero and a bunch of polls. And I think
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: that highlighted that in the debate. So I think that's
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: a problem for him. I think overall, he had some
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: pretty strong moments as well. And I don't think anyone's like,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone seriously dented his status as
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Iowa front runner, but we'll see.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, that's the thing is that in the
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: last debate, Elizabeth Warren was surging and all of these
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: candidates went into the debate with a very specific plan
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: to blunt her momentum. And they did that.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: Like the poll suggests that they have blunted her momentum.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: This debate, I think candidates went into this with the
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: idea that in order to succeed, they were going to
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: have to blunt Pete's momentum. And they did not do that.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: And I think part of that was the moderators made
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: it harder. You had to really want to do it.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Like you had to sort of swerve out of your
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: lane to go after him because they were not innocent.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Like this was the debate Elizabeth Warren went through. The
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: first question would have been, Pete, you said this. Elizabeth Warren,
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: what do you think about that to like spark the confrontation?
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: That did not happen here. And so I think he
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: walked in the Iowa front runner. He walks out the Iowa.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: front runner. And if candidates want to change that fact,
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: they're going to have to do that aggressively and sooner
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: rather than later.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: And look, and, you know, FiveThirtyEight and Ipsos have their,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: they do this panel. So they interview people before the
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: poll and after the poll. There's 3,700 respondents. It's Warren
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and Pete did the best in the debate. People thought
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Pete gained the most support of any candidate from people
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: before and after they watched the debate. So clearly that
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: panel at least thought he did. He did quite well.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Elizabeth Warren, the other Iowa frontrunner. She
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: came into this debate having proposed a detailed plan of
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: her own on Medicare for all. And maybe because of
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: that was not challenged that much on her proposal. Here's
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: her defending her wealth tax.
• 40:12
  Speaker 6: Doing a wealth tax is not about punishing anyone. It's
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: about saying, you built something great in this country, good
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: for you. But you did it using workers. All of
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: us help pay to educate. You did it using your
• 40:24
  Speaker 6: getting your goods on roads and bridges. All of us
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: help pay for it. You did it protected by police
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: and firefighters. All of us help pay the salaries for it.
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: So when you make it big, when you make it
• 40:35
  Speaker 6: really big, when you make a top one-tenth of one
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: percent big, pitch in two cents. So everybody else gets
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: a chance to make it. And here's the thing. That's
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: something that Democrats care about, independents care about, and Republicans
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: care about.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I thought that was a really smart answer for a
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: couple reasons. One, she framed the wealth tax in the
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: least punitive way possible, which is one of the criticisms.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: And two, she talked about the broad political support for it. again,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: making an electability argument, which I thought was pretty strong.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: What did you guys think of Warren overall?
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: I think she was good.
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: It was sort of one of those moments where every debate,
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: she speaks a lot at the top and then sort
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: of seems to disappear. And by the end of the debate,
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: I look at the actual numbers of who spoke the most,
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: and she's always at the very top. And I'm baffled
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: as to how I don't get this right every single time.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I thought she was good.
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: That well-text moment like that's a win for her. She's
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: not in the cul-de-sac about Medicare for all. She's talking
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: about the wealth tax, which is popular among Republicans. It
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: was also oddly one of the only bad moments for
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: Cory Booker in a debate that I thought was very
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: good for him when he was seemingly arguing against the
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: wealth tax. But overall, I think she had a good night.
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: That said, like, you know, there's some data out of
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: Iowa where they didn't just do another poll, but they
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: actually re-interviewed people who had been in their previous poll
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: to see why they moved away from folks. And the
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: folks who are most likely to move away from Warren
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: are were those who had been following the race of
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: the closest. So clearly these fights over Medicare for all
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: and the attacks she was taking about electability had actually
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: really sunk in.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Dan, what'd you think of Warren?
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: I think that's exactly right. I thought she was very
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: good as always. She did not, she was not at
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: the center of the discussion. I think she was more,
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: because she was not involved in any sort of the
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: more viral moments or the conflict. I think, like this
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: is a process, right?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: This is one.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Event on the path to Iowa.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: And I think looking at it in that perspective, it
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: says to me that her Medicare for All announcements of
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: the last week were successful. Because what I think they
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: were trying to do is get out of that cul-de-sac
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: time he's talking about, stop being defensive, have an answer
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: to the questions, and be able to move on to
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: the issues where I think she is much stronger and
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: actually where she gained momentum in the beginning of this race,
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: which was bold policies on economic inequality, like the wealth
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: tax and student debt and anti-corruption efforts. And so but
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: she has been stuck talking about Medicare for all and
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: nothing Medicare for all for weeks. And I think the
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: fact that that was not the center of discussion means
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: that she would, that that move was successful. It will
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: not bear fruit fully until the next debate where she will,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: I think hopefully be able to drive more of the
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: issue around some of these corruption and economic issues. But
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: so that sense, I think it was strategically a good
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: moment for her.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Let's turn to the front runner in the national polls,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Here are two moments from Biden. one where
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: he's answering a question about the Me Too movement and
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: another where he's talking about his support in the black community.
• 43:29
  Speaker 10: No man has a right to raise a hand to
• 43:32
  Speaker 10: a woman in anger other than in self-defense, and that
• 43:36
  Speaker 10: rarely ever occurs. And so we have to just change
• 43:40
  Speaker 10: the culture, period, and keep punching at it and punching
• 43:43
  Speaker 10: at it and punching at it. It will be a big— no,
• 43:46
  Speaker 10: I really mean it. It's a gigantic issue. I'm part
• 43:51
  Speaker 10: of that Obama coalition. I come out of the black
• 43:54
  Speaker 10: community in terms of my support. If you notice, I
• 43:57
  Speaker 10: have more people supporting me in the black community that
• 44:00
  Speaker 10: have announced for me because they know me. They know
• 44:02
  Speaker 10: who I am. Three former chairs of the black caucus.
• 44:06
  Speaker 10: The only black African-American woman that ever been elected to
• 44:09
  Speaker 10: the United States Senate.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: A whole range of people.
• 44:12
  Speaker 10: My point is.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: No, that's not true.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: The other one is here. I just... I had this
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: experience last night, like I always do in these debates,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: where every time Joe Biden's about to speak, I hold
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: my breath, like hoping that it will go well and
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: not make me cringe. I really do. I'm rooting for
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: him to not do that. And then in those two clips,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: it was just like, what's going on, man?
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: So he gave, I actually think, the best answer he's
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: given in any debate or really any statement he's made
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: that I've seen over the course of this campaign, which
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: was his answer on whether or not it's appropriate to
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: talk about, uh, lock him up around Donald Trump. And
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: I thought he was, uh, impassioned about the kind of,
• 44:59
  Speaker 5: it was the best moment for him because it was
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: when it was about, it was, it was about restoration.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: It was about the rule of law. It was about.
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: Hearkening to the way things used to be in a
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: way that I actually think is appropriate that we don't
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: talk about prosecuting our political opponents.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: He was cogent. He was precise. He just did.
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: He made, it was the best I've seen him. And
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: it was a reminder of how much he has struggled
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: in these debates. And yeah, I mean, like the way
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: that I've always that I feel now when I see Biden,
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: it is just like watching someone land a small plane
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: in a storm. And you just it's going to be messy.
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: It's going to be it's going to tilt back and forth.
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: You just want to watch him get it on the ground.
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: So I know the polls never change for him. I
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: know that never seems to impact him. I just always
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: watch it and feel like something is off. And I'm
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: not saying mentally. I'm just saying the debate prep is
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: too complicated.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: The words aren't coming to him.
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: He doesn't seem sharp. It doesn't lead me to believe
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: that a debate with Donald Trump would end up in
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: Trump being beaten like a drum, to quote a Biden phrase.
• 46:02
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Dan, what do you think?
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: It was not smooth. I think that's hard to say.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: But I think we have to at least.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: I acknowledge or try to like step back from our,
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: like in the moment criticism.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: I think what, like the feeling of anxiety that you
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: talked about when Joe Biden speaks is connected to our
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: affection for him as a person, right? Like we don't
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: want this to go poorly for him, regardless of who
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: you support.
• 46:30
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: Like he, he's a good person and you want it to.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: go well and not get dunked on on Twitter and
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: they get everyone yelling about it.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: You don't want anyone on that stage making a bunch
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: of gaffes or any gaffes. I'd rather them all be
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: gaff-free for the whole campaign, no matter who I support.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: I mostly agree.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: I look, I'm trying to not be in my own
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: head and too online as well, but I just, I
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: just can't pretend I don't see what I see, which
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: is a performance that doesn't give me confidence in a
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: general election.
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: And I'll go further than that too, in that, yeah,
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: there are the performance issues, but, but even if he
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: was delivering the arguments he was trying to make flawlessly.
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: There was also a real defensiveness and negativity that he
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: brought to the debate. You know, his final answer, it
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: was also his best moment at the at the LJ
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: dinner in Iowa, where he talks about, you know, this
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: isn't who we are. You know, don't be pessimistic.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Get up.
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: Everybody needs to get up when he does that. Well,
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: I think it is the most successful version of Joe Biden.
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: He tried to end his closings. with that, with that
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: kind of, we all gotta get up, we gotta be positive,
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: no more woe is me. But for some strange reason,
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: he decided to preface that remark by taking something Elizabeth
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: Warren said about corruption, which she aimed at the system
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: generally as a kind of personal insult to Barack Obama,
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: in which he acted as though it was a broadside
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: at him personally or at Barack Obama. And that defensive
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: woe is me attitude went right into his big rousing
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: closing about not saying woe is me And it just,
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: as a result, the whole thing didn't work.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: It was weird.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Dan, you were saying though, we should step back from
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: all of this.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: And we have to look at the polls and notice
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: that it doesn't change.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: And it definitely changes among college educated white Democrats, which
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: is why he has dropped in Iowa, New Hampshire is Buttigieg,
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Warren and Sanders have risen.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Doesn't have that demographic lockdown.
• 48:21
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: But he is, he still has a, dominating lead among
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: African-American voters.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: And non-college educated white voters in the Democratic Party, which
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: still make up a third to a fourth.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: And older voters of all education and demographic groups.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Although Pete's climbing with older voters in Iowa.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: In Iowa, yes, for sure. And I think we have
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: to at least think about that in the context of
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: what matters to the vast majority of Democrats, how they
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: think about the race. how they think of Biden's debate
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: performance in the context of being Barack Obama's vice president,
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: his years of service, the fact that even when the
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: words don't sound right or come in the right order,
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: they are delivered in a very confident way that I
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: think is familiar to people. They've been hearing Joe Biden
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: talk for a long time. And so I have all
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: the concerns about Biden on that debate stage in a
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: general election that we all do. But we are judging
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: this in a way that I think other voters aren't.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: And that matters because if that holds where it stands
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: right now, Biden is going to be either number one
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: or number two, and probably number one because of how
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: delegates are allocated in the Democratic primary. in the incredibly
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: important role that African-American voters have because of majority minority
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: congressional districts that have delegates.
• 49:50
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I think the big question has been,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: are Joe Biden supporters, Joe Biden supporters, because they are
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: not paying as close attention to the race as we are,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: or is it because they have seen Joe Biden in
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: this campaign and just like him and support him? And
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: I think that, um, five 38 episodes panel, uh, gives, um,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of evidence to the idea that in this panel,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of people said that they did not think
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: he did that well in the debate. And yet his
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: support rose a little bit.
• 50:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: Increasingly it is, it just isn't the case anymore that
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: you can say, Oh, the reason these debate moments that
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: we take issue with are, are not impacting the poll
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: numbers is because his supporters aren't paying attention. That just
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: doesn't seem to be the case. What seems to be
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: the case actually is that the voters paying a lot
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: of attention, uh, actually are, uh, they're behind Biden, they're
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: behind Warren, and they're actually moving away from some of
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: the other candidates.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: And I think, look, we said rightly that Pete Buttigieg
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: has a problem and a challenge with winning over black voters,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: but so does Elizabeth Warren and so does Cory Booker
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: and so does Kamala Harris and so does Bernie Sanders.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders is probably doing the best of that crowd.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: And then they're all sort of, and then, you know,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: they all have some black support, much more than Pete,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: but Joe Biden is so far out ahead with black
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: voters who are such an important part of the Democratic
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Party and have such an important constituency. And if you've
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: got that constituency plus non-college white voters, that's enough. Someone
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: has to dent either one of those constituencies in order
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: to beat Biden.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: When Greg Schultz, Biden's campaign manager on David Plouffe's podcast
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: a few weeks ago, he talked very specifically about how
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: Biden is built to last in this race because he
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: is at 15% everywhere. which means he will be humiliating
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: delegates in every single congressional district in this country. And
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: that is not true of the other candidates. As it
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: relates to Pete, like we say it's a problem, it
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: is an existential fucking threat. Because Warren has moved up,
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: not to where she needs to be, but as she
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: has gained in the race, as she has gained name identification,
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: she has gained African-American support in some of these polls,
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: the Morning Consult poll this morning, some of the South
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: Carolina polls. Pete has not moved. And his name ID
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: has gone up. He's become the frontrunner. That has not moved,
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: which speaks to, I think, a question about what it
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: says about his campaign in terms of the outreach they've done,
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: what is about his message, and whether the narrative that
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: Pete Buttigieg has no African-American support is contributing to the
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: fact that Pete Buttigieg has no African-American support, which means
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: his campaign has to go do something pretty dramatic and
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: go sort of swerve out of their lane to aggressively
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: address that. Because if they do not, this is not,
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: they've been modeling themselves after Obama in Iowa. We're going
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: to win Iowa. We're going to jump. There is, I think, some,
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: and Tom can speak to this better, some real parallels
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: between the excitement for Pete in Iowa that Obama experienced.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: But Obama knew, we knew exactly what we were going
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: to do if we won Iowa. We knew that Obama,
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: who had 100% name ID and incredibly high approval ratings
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: from African-American Democratic voters, would move to us. Pete, if
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: he does not change that, is not going to be Obama.
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: He's going to be Mike Huckabee. Or any of these
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: other Republicans who win Iowa and have nowhere else to
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: go because their support is very specific to Iowa. It
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: does not operate as a launching pad to the rest
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: of the Democratic primary.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders had another. Really solid debate, I thought. Here's
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: a clip of him talking about climate change.
• 53:17
  Speaker 11: What we have got to do tonight, and I will
• 53:20
  Speaker 11: do as president, is to tell the fossil fuel industry
• 53:25
  Speaker 11: that their short term profits are not more important than
• 53:29
  Speaker 11: the future of this planet.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: And by the way.
• 53:32
  Speaker 11: The fossil fuel industry is probably criminally liable because they
• 53:37
  Speaker 11: have lied and lied and lied when they had the
• 53:41
  Speaker 11: evidence that their carbon products were destroying the planet. And
• 53:46
  Speaker 11: maybe we should think about prosecuting them as well.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Senator Sanders.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Bernie?
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, with the exception of the debate where it
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: was right before he had the stents put in and,
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: but his campaign said he didn't feel well. I think
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: Bernie has been the most consistent debater on the stage.
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: He always delivers a good performance to his credit and
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: maybe also to his detriment because it can at times
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: feel like a greatest hits album, but maybe over time
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: you start to enjoy those greatest hits even more when
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: some of the new shit that's on the radio starts
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: sounding less good to you, or maybe you get a
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: little sick of it. I mean, It's fascinating that Bernie
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: Sanders had a heart attack and has climbed in the polls.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Like, something is going right for him.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: He's got the most solid base of support, the most
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: enthusiastic supporters.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: They don't play by the traditional rules of the campaign.
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: You know, they're not, like, stacking the crowds at the big,
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: you know, Iowa party dinners.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: But they're doing something right. And, you know.
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: A few months ago, right after Bernie Sanders had that
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: heart attack, I was very concerned about what it meant
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: for his candidacy.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: But he has consistently delivered.
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: And we didn't play the clip of his foreign policy answer,
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: but he's gotten really good on foreign policy matters. He
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: mentioned Palestinian rights, which you never hear at debates. I mean,
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: he's doing interesting things.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about another person who is a consistently good
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: debater and had another great debate last night, Cory Booker,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: who tried to correct Biden on forgetting Kamala Harris is
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: a woman. African-American who's been elected to the Senate and
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: on stage next to him, and was also pretty effective
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: last night in challenging his opponents without being too harsh,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: which I think is a good skill to have. Here
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: he is talking to Biden about marijuana legalization.
• 55:20
  Speaker 7: Black voters are pissed off and they're worried. They're pissed
• 55:23
  Speaker 7: off because the only time our issues seem to be
• 55:25
  Speaker 7: really paid attention to by politicians is when people are
• 55:28
  Speaker 7: looking for their vote. And they're worried because the Democratic
• 55:30
  Speaker 7: Party We don't want to see people miss this opportunity
• 55:36
  Speaker 7: and lose because we are nominating someone that isn't trusted,
• 55:40
  Speaker 7: doesn't have authentic connection.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: And so that's what's on the ballot. And issues do matter.
• 55:46
  Speaker 7: I have a lot of respect for the vice president.
• 55:49
  Speaker 7: He has swore me into my office as a hero.
• 55:51
  Speaker 7: This week I hear him literally say that I don't
• 55:54
  Speaker 7: think we should legalize marijuana. I thought you might have
• 55:58
  Speaker 7: been high when you said it.
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: Pretty funny.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: I love it. It was great.
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: You know, I think Cory Booker screwed up early in
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: the debate because he connected a critique of the wealth
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: tax to a point he was making about opportunity and
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: small business, which I actually thought was a really good
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: point and a point that hasn't been made enough in
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: these debates.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: But that was his best moment.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: I mean, it is pretty difficult in this debate, especially
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: as Dan points out that they weren't trying to drum
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: up conflict. He was directing criticism at Pete. He then
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: turned in direct criticism at Biden. And I thought he
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: did it in a really smart and effective way. It
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: was a feistiness to Cory Booker that I think has
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: been absent, and I just always appreciate it.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, again, he got great reviews, and the CNN
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: focus group of undecided voters picked him as the winner.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: Once again, Cory Booker shows up to these debates, gives
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: a great performance, and then up until so far, we
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: haven't seen him really gain in the polls at all.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: It's a mystery.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: I think an important piece of context here is Booker's
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: the only person on that stage who currently has no
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: pathway to the December debate.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: He made mention of that at the end.
• 57:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: And his problem is he crossed the donation threshold, I think,
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: in the hours after the debate. He was very close
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: to that, but that was not the problem. The problem
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: is he has not come anywhere close to the, I
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: think it's four points you need in a national poll
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: or five points in an early state poll in a
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: very long time. And so you could see it in
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: that answer because he was already upset because he had
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: not been called on in the context of the Kamala
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: Harris-Pete Buttigieg exchange about the African-American community. And you could
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: see the sands of the hourglass leaving in his head
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: where he has to make his move or he's done.
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: And I think he did everything he could to give
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: himself a shot. The question will be, will voters respond
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: to him to yet another very good Booker performance differently
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: than they have in previous ones?
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Let's go through the other rest of the candidates really quickly.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Amy Klobuchar, what do you think about Amy Klobuchar, Tommy?
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: I think something is happening for Amy Klobuchar. I really do.
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think she's seen some growth in the
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: polls in Iowa. She has strong debate performances every time.
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: I think that culturally in Iowa, a lot of people
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: see Amy Klobuchar and they see familiarity. It feels like
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: someone they know, a colleague, a friend, a mom or whatever.
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: And if she can get some money, she might be
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: able to get her name ID up, deliver an electability
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: argument about how she's been able to win in Minnesota
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: and done all these things and was a prosecutor.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: That could be effective.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, look, I'm not– it's incredibly difficult, I think,
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: to break from Tier 2 into Tier 1 in.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Iowa right now.
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: And I wouldn't discount just how difficult that is, but
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: it does seem like something's happening for her.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: She also had one of the best lines of the
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: night when she talked about, you know, no one ever
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: plays the game, name your favorite woman president, when she
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: was talking about the challenges and running for president as
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: a woman. And I think she had a great performance,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: you know. Andrew Yang, anyone got thoughts on Andrew Yang
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: last night? He had a couple of funny, good moments.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: I think he's like consistently the most human person on
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: the stage. Genuinely funny, genuinely nice, connects with the audience,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: talks about his family, his kids. What is not to
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: like about Andrew Yang if you're watching this debate?
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: I think his appeal, which is very real. He is
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: going to make that December debate. He's up with a
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: million dollar, very good ad in Iowa right now. And
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: like Tommy said, I don't know that he's necessarily going to...
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: It's going to be very hard to get into that
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: top tier. But his appeal, I think, is you can
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: understand it when you watch him on the debate stage.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: You can see why he has built like a movement.
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: It's a smaller movement, but it is a movement of people.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: And because he's different. He has a different approach, a
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: different message. And there's something very endearing about his self-awareness
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: about the, I don't know, absurdity is not the right word,
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: but the idea, he knows that it is amazing he's
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: on that stage and that comes through.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: He literally said as much.
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: He's like, when I identified these problems, I didn't immediately
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: run for president because I'm not crazy. I went to
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: Washington and I talked to lawmakers and now I'm here.
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I also think one thing about about Yang too, is,
• 59:58
  Speaker 5: you know, whatever you think about a universal basic income,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: what he is saying is, hey, there's something very broken
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: in our culture, in our economy. It is making life
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: really hard for people. And it's making people feel as
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: though they lack dignity and choice and control in their lives.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 5: And I'm the person on this stage that's at least
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: willing to say to this big fundamental brokenness, we need
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 5: a simple, big solution. And I believe that putting more
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: money in people's pockets every month will have a bunch
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 5: of ancillary positive changes to address the systemic economic inequality
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 5: and immiseration that people are experiencing. And for that, I
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 5: think it's been a good contribution to the debate.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Tulsi Gabbard, who spent her time on stage taking on
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, Hillary Clinton, and the whole Democratic Party.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: I was just like, I was, I'm pretty, I think
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: we've all been pretty kind enough to Tulsi Gabbard up
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: until now. I was pretty sick of her last night.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: I'm opposed to regime change wars myself, but not a
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: lot of people on that stage supported them.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: That's the huge problem.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden supported the Iraq war. You can pick a
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: fight with Hillary Clinton because she supported the Iraq war.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: Totally legitimate. But like she is just attacking the quote
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: Democrat party. I mean, she's doing a lot of things
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: that just, it's clearly the strategy is not to win
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: that nomination. And it was interesting last night to see
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: a couple Democrats decide, I'm sick of your shit, and
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: to punch back really hard. And that includes Mayor Pete,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: and includes Kamala Harris. And like, look, Barack Obama famously
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: said that he would meet with dictators without precondition, right?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: And people try to say, oh, the Democrats who said
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: that you should meet with those people then are.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Now attacking her for meeting with Bashar al-Assad.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: I have a less of a problem with her meeting
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: with Assad, than what she said afterwards, which was to
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: undercut the international community's claims, the OPCW's claims, that he
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: was the one who used chemical weapons on his own people,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: that he gassed them with sarin gas and VX gas.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: She said that maybe it was the opposition, maybe it
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: was Al-Qaeda, maybe it was others. So you are well
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: in your right to meet with anyone you want, Kim Jong-un,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: Bashar al-Assad, whoever the fuck you want. But when you
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: do it after he used chemical weapons on his own
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: people and then parrot his talking points when you get back,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: I have a problem with that. And I think everyone
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: on stage has the opportunity to question your judgment then.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: She also gave Pete one of his best moments.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When she attacked him for him wanting to send
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: troops to Mexico and then him saying, this is a
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: bullshit twisting of my words, basically. Yeah.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: It's just this, like, there's just this chaos agent on
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 5: the debate stage. There's obviously no strategy to become the
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 5: Democratic nominee. It's a strategy to pick candidates obscure fights
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: or even not obscure fights with candidates, not based on
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: who you think will help you become the nominee, but
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 5: will kind of generate the most conflict. It's just, it's
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: I think why people see this person and say, I'm
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 5: worried that this is going to be someone who runs
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: as a third party candidate, because it's so clear that
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: she's not here in the spirit that the rest of
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: the candidates I think genuinely are, which is we may disagree.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: We may not see the race the same way or
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: who should be the nominee the same way, but we're
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 5: all ultimately here because we want to pick a champion
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: to face Donald Trump.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Uh, finally, Tom Steyer.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: He's exactly, he was, he was who I was thinking of.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 5: He is one who always makes sure he points out,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: I think to his great credit, given he paid a
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: lot of money to get there for the purposes of
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: beating these other people to say any one person on
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: this stage would be better than Donald Trump. There's also
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: that great moment between Yang and Steyer where there was
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: like a human moment of, of Yang saying, I think,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: I think Tom Steyer is okay. And Tom's like, Hey, Thanks, Andrew.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: Well, it's also interesting, Biden punched back pretty hard at
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: Tom Steyer, saying, like, I'm glad you care about climate
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: change now, but before that, you were investing in coal plants,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: which was interesting. Like, Everyone on this team seems to
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: have learned the lesson that you can't let any attack
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: go unanswered. You need to just punch back no matter
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: how far down they are on the polls.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: But there was no attack.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: That was the part that was crazy.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: I thought he could. No, maybe he didn't. He said
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: he was the only one.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 5: He was the only one who made climate change the
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: number one person.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: I guess he did say Biden did not say it.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren did not say it.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: No one has joined me in saying it. And then Biden,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: who has to take bait on everything because he is
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: unbelievably defensive in this race. decided to just go. Okay.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: I heard, I think I heard something that might be
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: critical of me. So I'm going to go after it
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: is how he sort of operates.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: It was not a proportionate response to use a term
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: Tommy would use.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: It was a haymaker.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Look, I think, yeah, I think Tom Steyer is, you know,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: he's got good progressive credentials. He's done a lot of
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: good work. He spent his money on a lot of
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: very good causes that are dear to us. And I think,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: and he's got a good message. I think the question
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: is what's your rationale? Why you, he tried to do
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: that at the end, but he was basically like, no
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: one else on the stage has run a business. And
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: so when you face Donald Trump, I'll be a businessman
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: and I can talk about the economy better, which, you know,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: it's an argument. It's a little weak sauce, but, you know,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: he made it.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: Sometimes I wonder, watching all these debates, there's always the
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 5: public-facing argument the candidate makes. Then there's the more private,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 5: but still public facing, on background or kind of behind
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: the scenes campaign argument that they make to reporters, maybe
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: on background that you kind of see. And then there's
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: the real argument. And I sometimes wonder why in our
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: kind of saturated media environment where everyone's a pundit, that
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: gap hasn't closed more, right?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: It's closing. It always closes. This is the timeframe.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 11: Yeah, it is.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: But it's like Tom Steyer seems to be saying, you
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: like Elizabeth Warren's message, but she can't win for a
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: variety of reasons, but I can, right? That's sort of
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: would have to be what his story would be, but
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 5: he always dances around it. There's a criticism to be
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 5: made of Mayor Pete around where he's gotten votes, but
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 5: even Amy Klobuchar, who was sort of dancing around it,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 5: wasn't willing to kind of make that direct kind of
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 5: political argument. And in a race defined by, and the
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: same thing, by the way, for Joe Biden, there's just
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 5: been a reluctance on the part of other candidates to
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 5: kind of make the clear-cut anti-Biden argument about electability based
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: on his performance in these debates. And I just, I
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 5: wonder why I wonder if that gap won't close more
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 5: as we get closer to the voting.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: I think there's two things that this debate potentially previewed.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: One is a much more explicit discussion of each other's electability,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: which Cory Booker and Kamala Harris hinted at it. Cory
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: Booker came the closest by talking about an authentic connection,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: I think was the term. And Kamala Harris was much
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: more specific afterwards. Amy Klobuchar hinted at it by calling
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: him a local official, calling Pete Buttigieg a local official.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: It was a proxy discussion around Elizabeth Warren's that the
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: candidates were having about Medicare for All, but I think
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: it's going to get more explicit. And then the second
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: thing I think, now that Pete, I think, is firmly
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: in the frontrunner seat in at least the first race
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: and in the first state, in the top tier of
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: the second state, every candidate has an incentive to take
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: him down.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: They're all still hitting harder in their post-debate interviews than
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: they are on stage.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: And I think for Pete, what happened... So Elizabeth Warren
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: brought up her ambassador... her policy position that she would
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: not appoint donors to be ambassadors. Pete Buttigieg got asked
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: about that this morning. He refused. He was unwilling to
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: adopt that pledge, but did say that he would only
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: appoint qualified people. And you, that is where I think the,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: the conversation, Pete Buttigieg and Elizabeth Warren have to go
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: head to head because they are, they both.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 5: Have to win Iowa.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: They are standing each other's way. They both have to
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: win Iowa.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: All right, with that coming attraction.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: One last thought.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: Like, okay, this week we've been chain-smoking impeachment hearings, to
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: quote a love it phrase. The debate happened last night.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: Could you imagine trying to run for president not on
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: that stage? Like, there is no room for a third
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: or fourth or fifth story. Maybe $ 50.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: Billion can buy you that.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's the only thing.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: But my God.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, you saw Deval Patrick tried to do an
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: event at Morehouse College yesterday, and only two people showed up.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 5: I think it was smart of Bloomberg to buy CNN, though.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: Again, no, he should fucking buy Fox News. Buy Fox News,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: shut it down, and then I'll vote for you. All right,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: so I guess we'll see you all, what, in the
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Slack chain tomorrow?
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 11: No.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: So next week, so you all know, Dan and I
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: are going to do Monday's pod. because Lovett's gone. And
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: then the three of us, Lovett and Tommy and I,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: are doing a Thanksgiving mailbag that will run over the break,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: over Thanksgiving break. And then we'll see you after Thanksgiving
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: for more impeachment, more primary.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: Back in the group thread salt mines.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Back in the group thread salt mines. All right, everyone.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: We'll see you later.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 7: Bye.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: senior producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Carolyn Reston, Tanya Sominator, and
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: Katie Long for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Narmel Coney, and Yael Freed, and Milo Kim,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.