Latest / The You Project / #2165 Learning & Unlearning - Bobby Cappuccio

Transcript

#2165 Learning & Unlearning - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Oh, good a team. It's Harps. It's Harps and Bobby,
0:03
Speaker 1: no Tiff today. I did an earlier one with Patrick
0:06
Speaker 1: and no Tiff. It's been a bit of a tifless day,
0:08
Speaker 1: which are very sad. She's had a few computer issues,
0:12
Speaker 1: but she's back on deck now and she just happens
0:15
Speaker 1: to be busy at this point in time. Good morning, Robert,
0:17
Speaker 1: Good evening to you. How are you, Ah, I'm feeling
0:20
Speaker 1: a bit tifless. Yes, yes, we are both tiarless at
0:26
Speaker 1: this point in time. You and I were just talking
0:28
Speaker 1: about we're talking about nicotine, were talking about We've got
0:34
Speaker 1: obviously no idea what we're talking about this show, but
0:36
Speaker 1: we're starting here. And I've said before to people, I
0:41
Speaker 1: periodically use a nicotine patch, not because I smoke or
0:45
Speaker 1: I'm trying to give up smoking, or not because I've
0:48
Speaker 1: ever smoked, but because there are some cognitive benefits, allegedly,
0:53
Speaker 1: and I experienced those, and so do a lot of
0:56
Speaker 1: other people. I am in no way endorsing the use
0:58
Speaker 1: of tests a stone, maybe maybe that nicotine. I'm not
1:03
Speaker 1: endorsing that. But then you said you might as well
1:07
Speaker 1: just have a cigarette.
1:09
Speaker 2: That was a joke.
1:10
Speaker 1: Bottler, Yeah, Yeah, but it is. It is. There is
1:14
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that is quite counterintuitively got some
1:19
Speaker 1: potential benefits. Again, no recommendation, but for me, what happened.
1:24
Speaker 1: So caffeine, come on, nicotine. I've gone testosterone, caffeine, nicotine, nicotine.
1:32
Speaker 1: It has been reasonably Yeah, I could be you, it's been.
1:36
Speaker 1: It's reasonably solid evidence that says it's cognitively valuable or
1:41
Speaker 1: it can be a cognitive enhancer for a period of time.
1:44
Speaker 1: So I've been used a little bit of it. Just
1:46
Speaker 1: a patch that sits on your shoulder or your forum
1:48
Speaker 1: or wherever you want to put it your testicles, and
1:52
Speaker 1: that could be precarious getting it off though, depending on
1:56
Speaker 1: your personal grooming level, I guess. But yeah, yes, so
2:02
Speaker 1: I don't mind it. I don't mind it, and it
2:05
Speaker 1: kind of I watched about three videos. Again, this is
2:08
Speaker 1: not medical advice. It's just a dickhead talking about three
2:12
Speaker 1: videos he watched, which all said essentially that it can
2:18
Speaker 1: have a really positive effect on long COVID, which at
2:22
Speaker 1: that period in time, I was just constantly tired and
2:27
Speaker 1: constantly fatigued, and I felt like my brain was working less,
2:31
Speaker 1: my body was working less, my energy was less, and
2:35
Speaker 1: my personal experience was and I'm not really susceptible to
2:40
Speaker 1: the old place ever, because I think everything's bullshit and
2:42
Speaker 1: everything doesn't work. So, if anything, I wasn't expecting much,
2:46
Speaker 1: but I thought I would be open minded, and within
2:49
Speaker 1: about three days for me, everything reset, everything went back
2:55
Speaker 1: to pretty good, and it hasn't stopped since. Now. Whether
2:58
Speaker 1: or not that was a plus cibo, I don't think so.
3:01
Speaker 1: Whether or not it was coincidence because whatever was bugging
3:04
Speaker 1: me kind of ceased, but yeah, it's been. I think
3:10
Speaker 1: that's the thing though, with not so much with drugs,
3:14
Speaker 1: but with supplements, with food, with sleep, with exercise, with intensity,
3:19
Speaker 1: with volume, with frequency, with recovery, with micros, with macros,
3:23
Speaker 1: with energy in and out. There are all these variables
3:27
Speaker 1: that impact the way that we think and feel and
3:29
Speaker 1: perform and operate physiologically and mentally and emotionally, of course,
3:35
Speaker 1: But it's trying to figure out what's going to work
3:37
Speaker 1: for you in the individual versus what is the what
3:43
Speaker 1: is the story coming from the companies or the story
3:46
Speaker 1: coming from social media about oh, we should all take this,
3:50
Speaker 1: we should all supplement with this because this supplement or
3:53
Speaker 1: this pill or this this nutrient does this to your body?
3:57
Speaker 1: And then my question is, well, whose body? And does
4:00
Speaker 1: that worth the same for everyone? What if I don't
4:03
Speaker 1: lack that? What if I have enough of that? So
4:06
Speaker 1: for me, it's been a it's honestly been about I
4:11
Speaker 1: started when I was twenty, I reckon just fucking around
4:13
Speaker 1: with different supplements. And in those days, remember in the eighties,
4:16
Speaker 1: the supplements we just talk shit. But forty two years later,
4:20
Speaker 1: here I am.
4:22
Speaker 2: Do you remember the supplement hot stuff?
4:25
Speaker 3: No?
4:26
Speaker 2: Oh, I was back in.
4:27
Speaker 1: The early in nineteen nineties, Right, well what was in it?
4:32
Speaker 2: I forgot what was in it?
4:33
Speaker 1: But I'm going to name it.
4:35
Speaker 3: I'm going to name it.
4:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to name a few.
4:37
Speaker 2: Right, we gotta, we gotta looked at we gotta you know,
4:40
Speaker 2: we gotta look this up because I remember when I
4:42
Speaker 2: was a kid saving up money to buy heart stuff
4:45
Speaker 2: because everybody in the gym was talking about it. Isn't
4:49
Speaker 2: this amazing that you could just tape this in? I
4:51
Speaker 2: couldn't do this back in the nineteen nineties, I was
4:54
Speaker 2: taking heart stuff. If I wanted to know what was
4:56
Speaker 2: in hard stuff, I had to go get the go
4:58
Speaker 2: get the bottle. I had to go ask my friend
5:01
Speaker 2: Al at the gym, because he would definitely know, but
5:04
Speaker 2: that had to wait, especially if it was a Monday night,
5:07
Speaker 2: I wouldn't see him at least until Wednesday. So yeah,
5:10
Speaker 2: Guarana beat out alanin wait creating. No, this has to be.
5:18
Speaker 2: This has to be a new formula, because I don't
5:20
Speaker 2: even think we were doing creating back then. It was
5:22
Speaker 2: just right before creating tribulous test theris obviously zinc aspetaite Yeah, okay,
5:30
Speaker 2: all right, yeah, a couple of testosteron boosters. Yeah, this
5:33
Speaker 2: has got to be. This has got to be a
5:35
Speaker 2: new version of art stuff.
5:38
Speaker 1: This is not the original I remember so obviously when
5:43
Speaker 1: Amino's came out right, you remember, like just you could
5:46
Speaker 1: buy it Elargernine, Ornathine, Licene. Yeah, like all of the
5:51
Speaker 1: O this one, you know, this test usterone precursor, This
5:55
Speaker 1: makes you sleep better, This does all the things, right, So,
5:59
Speaker 1: and then I was desicated. Liver was massive over here
6:03
Speaker 1: in bodybuilders, like basically pills of dehydrated liver. Did you
6:08
Speaker 1: ever open that door?
6:11
Speaker 2: Yeah? I took everything everything I could get my hands
6:13
Speaker 2: On't wasn't really a big desicated liver fan, but the
6:17
Speaker 2: aminos I was like, oh, that this is really going
6:20
Speaker 2: to help.
6:21
Speaker 3: Do you remember a thing called frack? No, would you
6:25
Speaker 3: remember thing called gamma roles and ollyes? Sounds like something
6:32
Speaker 3: from a fucking another planet.
6:35
Speaker 2: Anyway, Oh my goodness, say hawks for all those supplements.
6:39
Speaker 1: I took everything, And I remember once just I have
6:42
Speaker 1: this kind of I don't know, this moment in time
6:44
Speaker 1: where I thought, what if I took none of these things?
6:48
Speaker 1: Like none, what if I just took because I was
6:50
Speaker 1: taking probably fifty sixty tablets a day. I mean, they're
6:54
Speaker 1: all supplements. I wasn't taking any gear. If anyone's wondering,
6:57
Speaker 1: I wasn't taking any stosterone. I wasn't. All of these
7:02
Speaker 1: things were over the counter supplements. But I was spending
7:04
Speaker 1: half my wege on pills and powders and bullshit. And
7:09
Speaker 1: I would try anything. Yeah, And I went, I'm going
7:12
Speaker 1: to do a week of nothing, just food. And I
7:17
Speaker 1: was shattered because it made no difference at all, Like
7:21
Speaker 1: I didn't feel better or worse. I felt exactly. So
7:24
Speaker 1: I stopped. Everything made no difference. I trained the same,
7:28
Speaker 1: I looked the same, my energy was the same. I
7:31
Speaker 1: didn't shrink, because that's when you're a bodybuilder, and you're young.
7:35
Speaker 1: All you care about is, you know, not shrinking and
7:39
Speaker 1: getting bigger.
7:41
Speaker 2: Oh, when I was sixteen, I thought everything had to
7:44
Speaker 2: be working because I was getting really good results at sixteen,
7:48
Speaker 2: And I'm sure it wasn't because I was eating like
7:51
Speaker 2: a gob on and the training constantly. That probably had
7:55
Speaker 2: a little bit to do with it, but I thought, no,
7:57
Speaker 2: it's these branch chain of meno acids here. And then
7:59
Speaker 2: I had to start taking supplements for a while because
8:02
Speaker 2: anything I brought into the house I had to hide
8:04
Speaker 2: because there was always a problem. But then I brought
8:07
Speaker 2: home this way protein powder, so you can't hide that.
8:12
Speaker 2: So my stepfather found it and he threw it out
8:15
Speaker 2: my head because he had thought that I had brought
8:17
Speaker 2: steroids into the house. Yeah, this is all steroids. And
8:21
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't even I don't even have a
8:24
Speaker 2: comeback for that. That is like one of the most
8:27
Speaker 2: It's like it's one of those statements where you're just like, yeah,
8:31
Speaker 2: all right, okay, I'm just going to get rid of
8:34
Speaker 2: all this stuff.
8:36
Speaker 1: Well, you're you're not interacting with somebody who's probably doesn't
8:41
Speaker 1: want to interact with you. He probably just wants to
8:43
Speaker 1: be mad at you and throw something at your head.
8:45
Speaker 1: And my understanding is he wasn't, you know, step father
8:51
Speaker 1: of the Year. But yeah, it's kind of They're those
8:55
Speaker 1: pointless conversations where you want to jump in and actually
9:00
Speaker 1: explain to them what is But even if you could
9:04
Speaker 1: explain everything, it's not going to move the needle at all.
9:08
Speaker 1: So you're better off to in certain situations just shut
9:11
Speaker 1: the fuck up and get out of the way. When
9:13
Speaker 1: did you did you? Was there a period of time
9:16
Speaker 1: where you wanted to get on stage? Like did you
9:18
Speaker 1: want to be a competitive bodybuilder?
9:22
Speaker 2: Very short period of time. So I got around a
9:27
Speaker 2: bunch of NPC and IFBB pros that were part of
9:32
Speaker 2: my circle of friends. Ky Green was one of those
9:35
Speaker 2: people Bow Gold Gym in Brooklyn, and I thought, yeah,
9:41
Speaker 2: I want to do this, but I wanted to work
9:47
Speaker 2: and build my knowledge base and my career a lot more.
9:51
Speaker 2: And I would look at these guys as as the
9:55
Speaker 2: competition date was approaching, and they were like the walking dead.
9:58
Speaker 2: I thought, there is no I could wake up at
10:03
Speaker 2: four o'clock in the morning, get to the gym, open
10:05
Speaker 2: it at five, go home for a little bit in
10:08
Speaker 2: the afternoon and basically leave here at ten o'clock at
10:11
Speaker 2: night preparing for your shot. So you got a choice.
10:14
Speaker 2: And my boss was like, you could do shows or
10:17
Speaker 2: you could keep working here the way you're going, I
10:19
Speaker 2: was like, well, probably not going to make a lot
10:22
Speaker 2: of money in shows, are probably going to cost me
10:24
Speaker 2: a lot. I think. I think I'll stay on my
10:27
Speaker 2: current career track. Banks.
10:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the amount of people who make bank
10:32
Speaker 1: from bodybuilding as pros it would have to be less
10:37
Speaker 1: than zero point zero zero zero one percent. It's probably
10:43
Speaker 1: about ten people in the history of the sport who've done,
10:47
Speaker 1: you know, super well financially, and that's probably script.
10:51
Speaker 2: It's a PI project, a lot of dedication. Yeah.
10:56
Speaker 1: I work with Josh Lenatowitz who's an Australian bodybuilder and
11:00
Speaker 1: friend of mine. Shout out to Big Joshi. And he
11:03
Speaker 1: competed in three Mister Olympias and he might have placed
11:08
Speaker 1: five or six, and you know he had sponsors and things.
11:13
Speaker 1: But even being one of the best few in the world,
11:16
Speaker 1: it's just a grind. It's a grind. And you would think,
11:22
Speaker 1: you know, you would think if you're in the top
11:24
Speaker 1: ten in the world in a professional let's put in
11:26
Speaker 1: an asterisk next to that word professional. But in a
11:30
Speaker 1: professional sport you're probably not going to need to have
11:33
Speaker 1: a job as well. But for a lot of them
11:36
Speaker 1: it wasn't the case.
11:38
Speaker 2: I'll be careful how I say this, because bodybuilding takes obviously,
11:45
Speaker 2: it takes up your whole life. There's an enormous amount
11:49
Speaker 2: of work and discipline and focus that goes into it. Yes,
11:53
Speaker 2: but I wanted to take my body as far as
11:57
Speaker 2: possible when I was sixteen, because that's what I had
12:02
Speaker 2: to keep me focused and stop me from getting in
12:05
Speaker 2: a lot of trouble or just basically losing my mind.
12:09
Speaker 2: But then when I realized, oh, I could have a
12:14
Speaker 2: career path and I could grow in another way but
12:19
Speaker 2: still be adjacent to this, still be in the gym business, yes,
12:24
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, this is just not I mean, it's
12:26
Speaker 2: important to me to work out, it's my lifestyle. But
12:30
Speaker 2: competitive bodybuilding to me, that became absurd. I was like,
12:34
Speaker 2: I have zero interest in going down that path.
12:37
Speaker 1: For me, it was a real dichotomy because on the
12:40
Speaker 1: one hand, I was hysterically insecure, Hi did my body?
12:47
Speaker 1: How did people looking at my body? I never wanted
12:50
Speaker 1: to be seen, you know, without full coverage, you know,
12:56
Speaker 1: and then I lost weight and got what I would
12:59
Speaker 1: call fit in inverted commas, and then I started to
13:04
Speaker 1: you know, train, and then so by the time I
13:06
Speaker 1: was in my late teens, I didn't look like I
13:08
Speaker 1: did before, and now I looked all right. And then
13:11
Speaker 1: when you've got shit self esteem and you think you
13:14
Speaker 1: look terrible, and then some people compliment you on the
13:18
Speaker 1: thing that you thought was fucking horrible and please don't
13:22
Speaker 1: look at me, and then all of a sudden, you
13:24
Speaker 1: know you're not socially invisible to a potential girlfriend or something.
13:28
Speaker 1: When you're sixteen or seventeen, I've never had a girl
13:30
Speaker 1: even fucking look. I could have been on fire, nobody
13:33
Speaker 1: would have looked at me, right, And then all of
13:35
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're starting to get emotional and social and
13:40
Speaker 1: almost I guess psychological to a point approval, and that's
13:44
Speaker 1: very addictive. And when you're not you know, my prefrontal
13:48
Speaker 1: cortex was still in my left hip at the time,
13:51
Speaker 1: it hadn't even made it up to my head right,
13:53
Speaker 1: so you're not making logical decisions and it's very you know,
13:58
Speaker 1: you're in this mean fest of all. I look better,
14:02
Speaker 1: I get attention, I get approval, I'm attractive to someone,
14:07
Speaker 1: and that's very intoxicating, almost literally and almost attractive or
14:13
Speaker 1: is attractive addictive? I was going to say, and then
14:17
Speaker 1: trying to then separate that as you get a little
14:21
Speaker 1: bit older, realizing that while and again that's going to
14:26
Speaker 1: sound contradictory, But while I love bodybuilding in that I
14:30
Speaker 1: love the discipline, and I love what people do getting
14:33
Speaker 1: on stage, and I also understanding how dangerous that culture
14:37
Speaker 1: can be for people's mental and emotional health. And you
14:41
Speaker 1: and I have both seen people that capitulate probably doesn't
14:45
Speaker 1: adequately describe where some people end up in terms of
14:49
Speaker 1: their mental and emotional health, because you're getting oh shut
14:53
Speaker 1: up after this. You're getting up on stage in basically
14:57
Speaker 1: a postage stamp, And how it works is all of
15:01
Speaker 1: these people in the audience come to look at your
15:04
Speaker 1: body and judge your body, and then there's a whole
15:07
Speaker 1: table of you know, eight or ten judges right in
15:10
Speaker 1: front of you who are literally judging your body. That
15:14
Speaker 1: is their job, and evaluating and assessing you and telling
15:18
Speaker 1: you out of the twelve people on stage where you rank. Well,
15:23
Speaker 1: if that's not terrifying, and if that's not dangerous for
15:26
Speaker 1: one's kind of self esteem, etc. Nothing is. So it's
15:31
Speaker 1: this thing that, yeah, let's train and let's lift weights,
15:33
Speaker 1: let's be healthy, let's be pretty lean, let's look pretty good.
15:37
Speaker 1: But then I think it moves past a point for
15:40
Speaker 1: some people, by the way, some people, like my training partner,
15:44
Speaker 1: the Crab, was an IFBB pro. He won shows, he
15:49
Speaker 1: won national titles, he competed overseas, and he's relatively healthy
15:55
Speaker 1: and operational. So it's not everybody, but for some people
15:58
Speaker 1: it's almost like the beginning of the end.
16:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder how many people get into that and
16:05
Speaker 2: they go in that extreme direction who have had really
16:09
Speaker 2: extreme experiences, maybe even extreme experiences around physicality, because you
16:14
Speaker 2: and I got into bodybuilding, and I'm talking about like,
16:19
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I didn't want to go ahead and compete.
16:21
Speaker 2: I'm not And I was never exactly Dori in the eights.
16:23
Speaker 2: I don't know who I think I am, but in
16:25
Speaker 2: my early twenties I was big enough and lean enough
16:29
Speaker 2: that everybody noticed, Like even the people that I hung
16:32
Speaker 2: out with who were NPC and IFBB competitors, like they
16:36
Speaker 2: were like, yeah, you look like a bodybuilding you look amazing.
16:41
Speaker 2: And I remember I got there because I was so
16:46
Speaker 2: unhappy and I felt so unacceptable physically, and you kind
16:52
Speaker 2: of got into that for the same reasons. I wonder
16:54
Speaker 2: how many people go there because I'm thinking about someone
16:57
Speaker 2: who I used to work with. Obviously I'm not going
16:59
Speaker 2: to give any details. And she was this she was
17:03
Speaker 2: a competitor, and she was so absolutely stunning, great person, smart, charismatic.
17:11
Speaker 2: I really liked her. She didn't like me. She didn't
17:13
Speaker 2: get my sense of humor at all. I was like,
17:17
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't actually mean that, but I really
17:20
Speaker 2: liked her. And I remember when she had stopped being
17:24
Speaker 2: contest ready, because she was always just shy of being
17:27
Speaker 2: like contest ready, and she just put on some weight.
17:30
Speaker 2: And I remember I had said something about someone else,
17:35
Speaker 2: like just a compliment, not even a physical compliment. I
17:37
Speaker 2: don't walk around talking about people's bodies, but like, yeah,
17:41
Speaker 2: when we were in that meeting, that was brilliant, that
17:45
Speaker 2: response to that question, and like she cornered me in
17:50
Speaker 2: the hall and like lost it. And then I didn't
17:52
Speaker 2: even we didn't bring the conversation didn't naturally go there,
17:57
Speaker 2: and she was talking about what she's going through and
18:00
Speaker 2: how horrible she looks and how much weight she put on,
18:03
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm just looking at this person like, yes,
18:08
Speaker 2: oh my god, yeah, You've gone from someone who is
18:12
Speaker 2: stunning and could step on stage in the next i
18:16
Speaker 2: don't know, three days to someone who is just simply stunning.
18:21
Speaker 2: And for her this was traumatic, and I was like,
18:26
Speaker 2: oh wow, you know, I wonder if there's something there,
18:31
Speaker 2: because I know there was for me. And I'm and
18:34
Speaker 2: by the way, this is a broad brush. I don't
18:37
Speaker 2: think everybody. So I just got to like, because I'm
18:40
Speaker 2: listening to myself right now, I'm like, surely you don't
18:42
Speaker 2: mean everyone, but I wonder if there's a certain percentage
18:45
Speaker 2: of people that gravitate towards physique and bodybuilding, because.
18:51
Speaker 1: I think this is a good conversation I have. I mean,
18:55
Speaker 1: and you also done it to be a bodybuilder. You know,
18:57
Speaker 1: I've worked with when I was a I trained over
19:02
Speaker 1: the nearly forty years, I would have trained at least
19:06
Speaker 1: twenty models, men and women. And you know when you're
19:10
Speaker 1: worth when your commercial value is your body and your face.
19:15
Speaker 1: Literally every day you are evaluated as to how good
19:20
Speaker 1: or not good or commercially viable you are by your
19:25
Speaker 1: face and your features and your body and how lean
19:28
Speaker 1: you are. There's no way I shouldn't say no way.
19:34
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to end up at the you know,
19:37
Speaker 1: down the track in a healthy place. And as you
19:41
Speaker 1: and I have met both men and women. And while
19:44
Speaker 1: I get in trouble if I say it seems to
19:47
Speaker 1: affect more women, that may not be the case. I'll
19:50
Speaker 1: say that, but my experience is I've worked with both
19:55
Speaker 1: distressed men and women in this, but more ladies. I
19:59
Speaker 1: think women and are under more pressure anyway. But people
20:04
Speaker 1: with body dysmorphia where you're looking at somebody and as
20:08
Speaker 1: you said, they're in great shape, they're attractive, and they
20:12
Speaker 1: genuinely feel that they're hideous, you know, or that they
20:19
Speaker 1: are unlovable, or that they all of these stories that
20:22
Speaker 1: come out of this problematic relationship between identity and appearance,
20:29
Speaker 1: you know. And this is the thing like who I
20:31
Speaker 1: am is what I look like, and that was me
20:34
Speaker 1: for not a short period of time in my life
20:37
Speaker 1: because and that can arise easy you think about this, Okay,
20:41
Speaker 1: you're a fat kids, you're more with the obese, you
20:43
Speaker 1: don't get picked for sporting teams, all of these things
20:46
Speaker 1: that many of our listeners went through, right, So no
20:48
Speaker 1: self pity here, but I can't get a girlfriend socially,
20:51
Speaker 1: a little bit marginalized. Look at yourself, hate yourself. Blah
20:55
Speaker 1: blah blah, all of us. Well, not all of a sudden,
20:58
Speaker 1: but in a relatively short period of time, your body changes,
21:01
Speaker 1: your leaner, your fitter, You've got a little bit of muscle,
21:04
Speaker 1: you've got a little bit of definition. Now you look different,
21:06
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, everyone treats you differently. Oh wow,
21:10
Speaker 1: I was fat, i was unpopular. That's the formula. Now
21:14
Speaker 1: I'm not fat, I'm more popular. That's the formula. Oh
21:18
Speaker 1: I'm even. And now I've got muscle and i'm leaning.
21:20
Speaker 1: I've got a little waist and big shoulders. Oh fuck,
21:23
Speaker 1: bing bing bing bing, that's the combination. And you know,
21:27
Speaker 1: so you learn because your environment and the people in
21:32
Speaker 1: that environment teach you that, oh we like you more,
21:38
Speaker 1: we approve of you more, we recognize, we accept you
21:42
Speaker 1: more when you look this way. Now, I know that
21:45
Speaker 1: sounds terrible, but for many people, including you and me,
21:49
Speaker 1: that was just our literal experience. So when that happens
21:54
Speaker 1: to be your real life experience, it's very difficult to
21:58
Speaker 1: grow up without that twisted perspective. It's like, oh, I
22:05
Speaker 1: look better, I am better, I'm a better human, I'm
22:07
Speaker 1: a lovable, lickable I'm all of that because I've got
22:11
Speaker 1: and body fat or because I can do this or that.
22:16
Speaker 2: That is especially I think I'll just speak for me
22:21
Speaker 2: rather than speaking in gross generalizations. I was never an
22:25
Speaker 2: average kid, like I was always the kid everybody knew
22:28
Speaker 2: as there was something seriously wrong with this kid's face.
22:32
Speaker 2: And then I went from being known for that to
22:37
Speaker 2: being known for being really fit and big, and yeah,
22:45
Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense because I would get
22:48
Speaker 2: a lot of attention, I would get a lot of love,
22:51
Speaker 2: a lot of it. I kind of I kind of
22:53
Speaker 2: wanted it, but didn't want it. It felt great to
22:56
Speaker 2: have people complement my body. If I felt someone hitting
23:00
Speaker 2: on me, I didn't know what to do with it. It
23:03
Speaker 2: was terrifying. And I never could tell whether or not
23:06
Speaker 2: they were being sincere or they were taking the piss, like, oh,
23:11
Speaker 2: you know, she must think I'm very unattractive. She's like
23:14
Speaker 2: she's making fun of me. And then it became this
23:18
Speaker 2: kind of like, yeah, my worth is my body, and
23:21
Speaker 2: then my worth is my brain because now now people
23:24
Speaker 2: love me because I know things that can help them.
23:27
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, and that's I mean, I guess that happens.
23:32
Speaker 1: You know, some people like if you've got male or female,
23:36
Speaker 1: if you've got heaps of heaps of dough or heaps
23:38
Speaker 1: of resources or heaps of stuff that's going to make
23:41
Speaker 1: you to some people infinitely more attractive. You know, then
23:45
Speaker 1: you've got to figure that out. You know, it's like, well,
23:50
Speaker 1: do they love me or do I love my stuff?
23:54
Speaker 1: And even when you come back to the body, it's like, yeah,
23:58
Speaker 1: maybe I'm a more tractive physical version than what I
24:03
Speaker 1: once was. And while it's nice to get that attention,
24:08
Speaker 1: it is complicated because you want them to be attracted
24:13
Speaker 1: to you, the person behind the body, not the body,
24:16
Speaker 1: because I wonder if you would care about me. I
24:18
Speaker 1: want to spend time with me or get close to
24:22
Speaker 1: me if I was the exact same human but I
24:24
Speaker 1: weighed twenty kilos more. And sadly the answer to that,
24:29
Speaker 1: well for me anyway, was no. A lot of it.
24:32
Speaker 1: It's like no, yeah, and when you're the fat guy,
24:35
Speaker 1: but you're a bit funny, and you know you can
24:38
Speaker 1: be if you try the life of the party, and
24:40
Speaker 1: it say it's like, yeah, you know Jumbo, the jolly
24:44
Speaker 1: fat kid, and he's great, but you know, yeah, sure,
24:50
Speaker 1: but n you know, you're never one of the other
24:53
Speaker 1: guys who where the girls are off talking about those guys,
24:58
Speaker 1: you know, and I I know exactly how that feels.
25:02
Speaker 1: And when you're emotionally evolving and socially you don't know
25:07
Speaker 1: how the fucking world works, and you draw these conclusions
25:13
Speaker 1: based on this thing and that thing, or when I
25:16
Speaker 1: look like this, that happens. When I look like that,
25:18
Speaker 1: the other thing happens, or when I you know, I
25:22
Speaker 1: wasn't a great athlete, but I trained my ass off,
25:24
Speaker 1: so I ended up where I was not terrible. So
25:28
Speaker 1: I played footy. I was all right. I wasn't great.
25:30
Speaker 1: I was never going to be drafted, but oh I'm
25:34
Speaker 1: playing in the senior team. I'm not a bad player
25:36
Speaker 1: even that. Oh you know. Yeah, So that's I mean,
25:41
Speaker 1: I guess that's just an ongoing part of the human experience.
25:46
Speaker 2: I feel like everybody goes through that to varying degrees
25:49
Speaker 2: for a variety of reasons. It's like, I am that
25:56
Speaker 2: which pleases other people. Yeah, whatever that is, or whatever
26:01
Speaker 2: people need or want from me, that's that's kind of
26:05
Speaker 2: that's kind of an interesting like pleased to be in
26:09
Speaker 2: your own head.
26:11
Speaker 1: There's this, there's this how do I say this? So
26:16
Speaker 1: there's this person that comes to the gym who I
26:19
Speaker 1: didn't know at all, and it was just really apparent
26:23
Speaker 1: that they were very much just up there by themselves
26:30
Speaker 1: and as as well as I can read people, which
26:34
Speaker 1: I think is pretty well, you know, there didn't appear
26:37
Speaker 1: to be a lot of self worth or self esteem
26:41
Speaker 1: or joy, like no eye contact with anyone really, just
26:45
Speaker 1: going around the gym and and maybe, you know, sometimes
26:49
Speaker 1: you go, should I be friendly and say hello? And
26:51
Speaker 1: maybe that's what they don't want, So it's always a
26:53
Speaker 1: little bit of a risk, but I kind of got
26:56
Speaker 1: the vibe that that wasn't the case. Anyway. I just
27:00
Speaker 1: happened to end up on doing an exercise and that
27:04
Speaker 1: person was two meters away from me, and I just
27:08
Speaker 1: said to them, has training going? And they looked up
27:12
Speaker 1: at me, like are you talking to me? Not in
27:16
Speaker 1: a bat not in a I went, yeah, how's your
27:19
Speaker 1: training going? And they're like, oh, oh yeah, yeah, good ah,
27:25
Speaker 1: I've been away, I've been away. I was a little
27:27
Speaker 1: bit sick, but I've been back for two weeks, and
27:30
Speaker 1: but I went fantastic, fantastic, I go, you'll better now.
27:34
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I just had like a really bad flu
27:37
Speaker 1: that wouldn't go away and blah blah blah. And I said,
27:39
Speaker 1: you're doing MAINI weights or cardio or watch up to
27:42
Speaker 1: watch your program.
27:44
Speaker 2: Just that.
27:45
Speaker 1: Well, we spoke for about seven or eight minutes, and
27:48
Speaker 1: I could literally see this person's energy, their posture, their
27:54
Speaker 1: state changed just because a human was being nice to them.
28:00
Speaker 1: And I don't say this to brag at all, but fuck,
28:05
Speaker 1: I love that. And I thought, isn't it what an
28:08
Speaker 1: amazing thing that you can just interact with another person. Now,
28:14
Speaker 1: then the next time that person came in similar Now
28:17
Speaker 1: that then I've introduced them to the Crab and to
28:21
Speaker 1: Johnny and Tiff and my training, and I said to
28:25
Speaker 1: all of them, please give them a bit of attention,
28:28
Speaker 1: right And now they come into the gym and they
28:31
Speaker 1: look for us, and they walk over and just start
28:33
Speaker 1: banging on. And it's so good. It's so good just
28:38
Speaker 1: to you know, try to build connection or try to
28:43
Speaker 1: help someone. It's like, we know that you don't feel
28:47
Speaker 1: great about you, but we feel great about you. And
28:51
Speaker 1: we see you, and we want to hang out with you,
28:53
Speaker 1: and we want to talk to you, and you are
28:56
Speaker 1: one hundred percent part of our little a thing that
29:00
Speaker 1: we've got going on up here, if you want to
29:02
Speaker 1: be you know, I think I'm higher aware of people
29:07
Speaker 1: who struggle because I struggled. So when I see like
29:11
Speaker 1: a version of me, Whi's probably self indulgent, but I
29:15
Speaker 1: just want to make them feel a bit less pain.
29:20
Speaker 2: I think that's powerful, not only for other people, but
29:22
Speaker 2: it's very healing for the individual. How many minutes it's
29:26
Speaker 2: that bridge between Okay, why am I going through this?
29:30
Speaker 2: Why am I like this? Why does this happen to me?
29:33
Speaker 2: To this is happening for me. I was thinking about
29:37
Speaker 2: this the other day. It was right after I had
29:41
Speaker 2: given a session, and like usually I try to tune
29:46
Speaker 2: myself out, but I was paying attention to the things
29:48
Speaker 2: that I was saying in this seminar, and I thought, yes, Wow,
29:53
Speaker 2: if I look back on the people in my life
29:59
Speaker 2: that I have love the most and gotten the most
30:03
Speaker 2: value from just having them in my life, just love
30:08
Speaker 2: having them around me, and the things that have brought
30:11
Speaker 2: me the most meaning and enjoy in my work, it
30:17
Speaker 2: all stems back to how I was trying to continually
30:23
Speaker 2: respond to the worst experiences of my life. Like the
30:27
Speaker 2: best experience of my life, if you draw it all
30:30
Speaker 2: the way back, it came out of the worst experiences.
30:34
Speaker 2: And I think when you have that where oh I
30:37
Speaker 2: can reckon. I could recognize certain types of people that
30:40
Speaker 2: are going through some intense stuff and I don't even
30:43
Speaker 2: know I can, but I just happened to always find them,
30:46
Speaker 2: and then we'll be in a conversation it's like, Okay,
30:48
Speaker 2: I kind of know what they're going to say next,
30:51
Speaker 2: and I feel because I can recognize that because I've
30:54
Speaker 2: been there like you have, and it's like, okay, well
30:57
Speaker 2: I went through all this stuff. But what it allowed
31:01
Speaker 2: me to do is be more aware of, empathetic toward
31:05
Speaker 2: and available to people who need someone who kind of
31:11
Speaker 2: like gets them, especially if you have tools and resources
31:15
Speaker 2: that that person can utilize to kind of like figure
31:18
Speaker 2: out what their way forward looks.
31:20
Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, yeah, I agree with you in that it's
31:26
Speaker 1: very It sounds like when I'm talking about it, or
31:30
Speaker 1: we're talking about this, where you're being very selfless and
31:33
Speaker 1: kind not really I mean a little bit like I
31:37
Speaker 1: genuinely want to make that person if I can. I
31:40
Speaker 1: want to influence them in a positive way so that
31:44
Speaker 1: maybe maybe the experience that they have at the gym today,
31:48
Speaker 1: maybe it's better because they bumped into me. Maybe it's not,
31:52
Speaker 1: but that's my hope. But I also recognize at the
31:55
Speaker 1: same time, you know, that does something very positive for
31:59
Speaker 1: me too. I'm well aware that when I'm primarily focused
32:05
Speaker 1: on myself one, I'm not the kind of person that
32:10
Speaker 1: people would want to be around. And I understand that too.
32:14
Speaker 1: I'm not as happy and that there's no version, there's
32:18
Speaker 1: no selfish version of me. That's a good version of me,
32:22
Speaker 1: you know. But selfishness is very intoxicating because sometimes being
32:27
Speaker 1: selfish means you get good stuff and you have these
32:30
Speaker 1: momentary you know, glimpses into the dopamine abyss, you know,
32:35
Speaker 1: and it's like oh yeah, me, me, me, me me,
32:37
Speaker 1: But it's short lived, and it's like doing that, you know,
32:42
Speaker 1: without choose, I'm getting deep on eyed, but like trying
32:45
Speaker 1: to align really with your values and your purpose and
32:47
Speaker 1: all of that and say, is my purpose to make
32:50
Speaker 1: me happy? Well, no it's not. Well what is it? Well,
32:54
Speaker 1: part of it is, this is part of us, is
32:56
Speaker 1: just to whatever that looks like. However that manifests is
33:01
Speaker 1: to be something positive in other people's lives. However that
33:06
Speaker 1: works out, whatever the environment, whatever that. If it's a
33:09
Speaker 1: virtual world, it's three dimensional world. If it's at the gym,
33:12
Speaker 1: if it's at the supermarket, you know, wherever it is.
33:15
Speaker 1: However it is so.
33:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't believe happiness is possible otherwise. I mean
33:21
Speaker 2: there's there is heatonism, and there's something to be said
33:24
Speaker 2: like having that glass of wine or sitting out on
33:28
Speaker 2: my balcony with my wife and maybe you know, catching
33:32
Speaker 2: a sunrise that that'll make it happy, but only for
33:36
Speaker 2: so long. I think enduring happiness evolves getting outside of
33:40
Speaker 2: yourself or being completely consumed by something like I was
33:44
Speaker 2: talking to a group about burnout, and you know, we're like, okay,
33:48
Speaker 2: what do you do? What's an imminent strategy? Like this
33:50
Speaker 2: is a very tough moment, but then the next thirty
33:53
Speaker 2: days what can help? And you know what helps in
33:55
Speaker 2: the long term, and a lot of is bringing bringing
33:59
Speaker 2: your value use to work. And let's look at the
34:02
Speaker 2: gym business because this is perfect because people might say, well,
34:06
Speaker 2: your work isn't a place where you get to express
34:09
Speaker 2: your own highest values. It's about the work. Uh, yeah,
34:13
Speaker 2: it is. It absolutely is. And and you know, if
34:18
Speaker 2: you have a value around inclusion and camaraderie or humor
34:24
Speaker 2: or acceptance. One of the things that used to bother
34:27
Speaker 2: me about conversations in the gym business is how do
34:30
Speaker 2: you get people to extend the life cycle of their membership,
34:35
Speaker 2: how do you retain them? How do you get people
34:38
Speaker 2: to make better fitness decisions. I'm like, why do we
34:42
Speaker 2: assume that fitness is so different than when anybody else
34:45
Speaker 2: does for any other reason? What gets anybody to engage
34:49
Speaker 2: in anything and keep doing anything? You know? Like there
34:52
Speaker 2: was a there was a show here in the eighties
34:55
Speaker 2: called Cheers, you know, and like and what get Yeah,
35:00
Speaker 2: what gets somebody to walk into that bar every day
35:03
Speaker 2: before they go home? Well, it's the same thing. It's
35:07
Speaker 2: the stress relief, It's the unconditional acceptance. It's that you
35:12
Speaker 2: know you're gonna laugh with people. It's the familiarity. And
35:16
Speaker 2: think about somebody walking into a gym that has been
35:19
Speaker 2: struggling with their health or with some aspect of their physicality,
35:23
Speaker 2: and it's terrifying for them. And then after a couple
35:27
Speaker 2: of weeks it's the place that, aside from the workout right,
35:31
Speaker 2: it's the place that they enjoy the most, they laugh
35:33
Speaker 2: the most, they feel the most psychologically safe and accepted.
35:38
Speaker 2: Think about that, because you brought your highest values in there,
35:42
Speaker 2: and when you do that, you also create you also
35:45
Speaker 2: model social behaviors. That's created probably the best part of
35:50
Speaker 2: your day because I know that gym and how important
35:52
Speaker 2: it is to you, and that gym is unusual by
35:55
Speaker 2: the way. I mean, there's communities and a lot of gym's,
35:57
Speaker 2: a lot of gyms get community, but that place is
36:00
Speaker 2: very special. Like when you go in there, you really
36:03
Speaker 2: want to be there, regardless of what you do when
36:06
Speaker 2: you're there. But hey, just like you walk into a pub,
36:09
Speaker 2: you're likely to have a drink, you're hanging out in
36:11
Speaker 2: a gym a few hours a week, you're likely to exercise.
36:15
Speaker 2: So I think there's that bridge between what do I
36:18
Speaker 2: value and how do I use that in an environment
36:23
Speaker 2: because that has an impact on what people do and
36:28
Speaker 2: where people choose to stay. And that's most places.
36:32
Speaker 1: Back in the day when I set up my first gym,
36:34
Speaker 1: and I didn't know the stuff that I now know,
36:36
Speaker 1: and I didn't have the insights I now do. I
36:39
Speaker 1: inherently knew that I wanted to build a place where
36:43
Speaker 1: people would love to be right, So, you know, the
36:47
Speaker 1: kind of training, the model, you know, the business model,
36:51
Speaker 1: the this, the that, the equipment, that all of that mattered,
36:54
Speaker 1: but not as much as which I didn't then recognize.
36:58
Speaker 1: I didn't even I don't think I even understood the
37:01
Speaker 1: concept of creating a culture, you know, a workplace culture,
37:05
Speaker 1: like do your team want to be here? Do the
37:06
Speaker 1: people who are members or clients? Do they want to
37:10
Speaker 1: be here? Do they look forward to being here? Do
37:12
Speaker 1: they love it when they're you know, all that stuff,
37:14
Speaker 1: because if you can create an environment that people really
37:19
Speaker 1: love to be in, and not that we shouldn't have
37:21
Speaker 1: a good product, but that is part of the product.
37:25
Speaker 1: Like the actual training could be a six out of ten,
37:28
Speaker 1: but people fucking love the environment and the team and
37:32
Speaker 1: the energy and the music and the vibe and you know,
37:36
Speaker 1: or you can have a ten out of ten technically
37:38
Speaker 1: a ten out of ten training protocol for somebody, but
37:43
Speaker 1: it's the most uninspiring, unwelcoming joint on the planet. People
37:48
Speaker 1: don't want to go back, you know. So when you
37:50
Speaker 1: build a place, whether or not it's a It doesn't
37:54
Speaker 1: matter what the business is. Definitely doesn't have to be
37:57
Speaker 1: a gym. I asked bosses all the time, because I
38:01
Speaker 1: usually chat with the boss or the manager, leader, CEO,
38:04
Speaker 1: whoever it is before I do a gig. And one
38:08
Speaker 1: of the most asked questions by me to them is
38:12
Speaker 1: do people want to be here?
38:15
Speaker 2: And they don't.
38:16
Speaker 1: They don't. They don't even think about that. And by
38:20
Speaker 1: that I go what I mean is do they love
38:22
Speaker 1: this place? Do they love the environment? Do they? Yes,
38:25
Speaker 1: everyone's got peaks and troughs, But for the most part,
38:29
Speaker 1: for the most part, is this a place that people
38:31
Speaker 1: want to come and be in and work because they
38:35
Speaker 1: really enjoy the environment, they enjoy the culture, they enjoy
38:38
Speaker 1: the energy, they enjoy their teammates. Is this a place
38:42
Speaker 1: like that? Irrespective of why I'm being brought in to talk,
38:47
Speaker 1: because so many other variables about workplace performance and all
38:52
Speaker 1: of these things like tie into the first question, like
38:57
Speaker 1: do people Because if the truth is for you in
39:00
Speaker 1: your business, people tolerate it, they don't celebrate it. Well,
39:04
Speaker 1: you've got much bigger problems than what you think you have,
39:07
Speaker 1: because people are essentially on borrowed time, treading corporate water,
39:14
Speaker 1: waiting for something better than this, because this is not great.
39:17
Speaker 1: I'm just here because this ticks a financial box. But
39:21
Speaker 1: the moment that I find something better, and it may
39:23
Speaker 1: not even be better financially, but something that I perceived
39:28
Speaker 1: to be potentially better, I'm gone. So that building you
39:34
Speaker 1: think about with gyms, like how many pet studios and
39:37
Speaker 1: twenty four hour gyms and ladies gyms and gyms for
39:40
Speaker 1: the elderly and CrossFit and fucking the myriad of physical
39:46
Speaker 1: fitness businesses that you can join or belong to. In Australia,
39:52
Speaker 1: it's like there's one per person. I mean, it's crazy.
39:56
Speaker 1: I think per capita, we have amongst the highest number
39:59
Speaker 1: of gyms in the world. And so if you're going
40:01
Speaker 1: to set up another personal training like on the street
40:04
Speaker 1: that I live in live on, there are probably within
40:08
Speaker 1: a two k radius twelve to fifteen fitness businesses from
40:13
Speaker 1: you know, there's at least six personal training studios. There's
40:17
Speaker 1: two commercial gyms, there's pilates, there's CrossFit, there's a thing
40:23
Speaker 1: called extend bar, there's you know, there are just a
40:27
Speaker 1: million things. So you have to create a space that
40:30
Speaker 1: people love.
40:33
Speaker 2: When I was consulting with. I mean now it's all
40:36
Speaker 2: called I think New York sports Clubs. So it was
40:39
Speaker 2: like Boston philadel here in New York, but now it's
40:42
Speaker 2: New York Sports Clubs on the East Coast. This has
40:44
Speaker 2: gone back a long time ago. Our team read the
40:48
Speaker 2: book The Experience Economy. This is like written by Pine
40:52
Speaker 2: and Gilmour in two thousand and I think it's more
40:56
Speaker 2: relevant today than it was when it was first published.
41:01
Speaker 2: And one of the premises of this book is that
41:06
Speaker 2: experiences are as distinct from services as services are from goods.
41:11
Speaker 2: And when you think about goods, you think about like,
41:14
Speaker 2: you know, big screen TV. You go in, you really
41:16
Speaker 2: don't need a great experience. If you're going into a
41:19
Speaker 2: reputable shop, you don't need to like the salesperson. If
41:22
Speaker 2: it's a name brand, you know, the guarantees good, the
41:25
Speaker 2: warranty is good. You bring it home, you plug it in.
41:28
Speaker 2: I know what it looks like, the picture, I know
41:30
Speaker 2: what it sounds like. Great. But where services are a
41:35
Speaker 2: little bit different is you know, services are intangible. They're
41:40
Speaker 2: not tangible. I can't plug it in. I don't know
41:42
Speaker 2: what it is. So they're intangible and they're delivered, and
41:46
Speaker 2: the problem is that means that what you're selling doesn't
41:49
Speaker 2: exist at the time someone buys it, So there has
41:53
Speaker 2: to be a trust there, that has to be a
41:55
Speaker 2: relationship because you're selling a promise. But then when you
41:58
Speaker 2: get to a point where you know there's one of
42:00
Speaker 2: these on every corner, yes, there's nothing really that distinct.
42:07
Speaker 2: And that's where you get into experiences. And the greater
42:11
Speaker 2: the stakes and the more choices people have driving up demand,
42:16
Speaker 2: the more experiences matter. And experiences are staged and they're memorable.
42:23
Speaker 2: They're not simply delivered in tangible they are staged and memorable.
42:27
Speaker 2: They evoke an emotion that either repels the person or
42:32
Speaker 2: makes them more to repeat what produced that feeling in
42:35
Speaker 2: the first place. And that's I mean so in today's
42:38
Speaker 2: day and age, when you have more choices, then you
42:41
Speaker 2: could possibly even sift through rationally unless what you're doing
42:45
Speaker 2: is so dramatically different. It is the everything is about
42:50
Speaker 2: how you make people feel.
42:53
Speaker 1: And you know what's really interesting, You're absolutely right. I
42:57
Speaker 1: agree with everything you said. I'm thinking about the fact
43:00
Speaker 1: that you can go into a myriad of personal training
43:03
Speaker 1: censers in Melbourne and you can go and train with
43:08
Speaker 1: somebody for it's so expensive now. But even you know
43:12
Speaker 1: what's funny is when when I was training people one
43:14
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, forty bucks, I thought I was the
43:16
Speaker 1: king of the world. Like forty dollars was extreme. It
43:20
Speaker 1: was bizarre, right, But now we've got people, there's no
43:24
Speaker 1: insult here, but literally who got qualified three months ago
43:27
Speaker 1: who were charging one hundred dollars an hour. I'm like,
43:30
Speaker 1: I don't get how that works, but anyway, if they
43:32
Speaker 1: can do it, great good on them. But my point is,
43:38
Speaker 1: like I know people right now, trainers who charge over
43:44
Speaker 1: three hundred dollars for a workout.
43:46
Speaker 3: And.
43:48
Speaker 1: People just listening to that, people like, fuck that, that's
43:51
Speaker 1: fucking ridiculous. That that And depending on your perception and
43:55
Speaker 1: the context, and I agree, I think for the most part,
43:59
Speaker 1: depending on a bunch of variables, that is ridiculous. Nonetheless, Nonetheless,
44:06
Speaker 1: these three hundred dollars plus in our personal trainers, all
44:09
Speaker 1: of them that I know, do as much work as
44:12
Speaker 1: they want. Like none of them are struggling, you know.
44:17
Speaker 1: So you get somebody who even you think somebody does
44:21
Speaker 1: thirty sessions a week, say three in the morning, three
44:24
Speaker 1: at night. They don't work at the weekend, three in
44:26
Speaker 1: the morning, three at night. That's six sessions. Your times
44:30
Speaker 1: that by three hundred bucks. That's say ten hundred a day.
44:34
Speaker 1: That's nine grand a week without working full time, without
44:38
Speaker 1: working the weekends. If they do that for the year,
44:41
Speaker 1: there's four hundred and fifty grand. Now, I know that
44:44
Speaker 1: seems bizarre, but I know several trainers who make more
44:49
Speaker 1: of that. Now, obviously they're the exception, not the rule,
44:53
Speaker 1: and that's interesting. But the really interesting thing is why
44:56
Speaker 1: the fuck would people pay that? Because the results are
45:00
Speaker 1: not ten times better, The results are not three or
45:03
Speaker 1: four or five times better. The results are good, and
45:07
Speaker 1: they're all technically good trainers, but what they are is
45:10
Speaker 1: they're charismatic, they're charming, they're sincere, they care about their clients.
45:15
Speaker 1: They've got high social and emotional intelligence, they can read
45:19
Speaker 1: people well, and they give people what they want and need,
45:23
Speaker 1: and not just in terms of dumb bells and bar bells,
45:25
Speaker 1: but as an experience, as you say, And even back
45:30
Speaker 1: fourteen year, twelve years ago. So I closed my last
45:33
Speaker 1: studio in twenty fourteen, and at that time I was
45:37
Speaker 1: still training quite a few people. And even back then,
45:41
Speaker 1: it was two hundred and fifty dollars an hour to
45:42
Speaker 1: do a workout with me, and sixty dollars an how
45:44
Speaker 1: to do a workout with one of my trainers, who
45:47
Speaker 1: are all good people, would still come in and I
45:51
Speaker 1: would try to deflect. They would say I want to train,
45:54
Speaker 1: but only with you, and I'd say, I'm four times
45:57
Speaker 1: dearer than Bobby over there, who's just as good as me.
46:01
Speaker 1: So my here's what I suggest. I say, just do two,
46:05
Speaker 1: three four sessions with Bobby. Pay sixty bucks, not two fifty,
46:10
Speaker 1: and then if you're not happy with him, let's chat again.
46:15
Speaker 1: A percentage would say yes, probably an equal percentage would
46:19
Speaker 1: say no, I'd just rather pay that for you.
46:22
Speaker 2: Well, that that rate. There is a whole podcast episode
46:26
Speaker 2: it's not said that. Were like, add, well, that's like
46:28
Speaker 2: value and perception, and it's like, I mean, there is
46:33
Speaker 2: ability to pay and willingness to pay. But once you
46:36
Speaker 2: are a person where it's not ability, it's willingness. Very
46:41
Speaker 2: very few people have an aversion to high price. They
46:44
Speaker 2: have an aversion to low value. I think that's the
46:48
Speaker 2: hardest thing I ever did, was sell forty dollars an
46:50
Speaker 2: hour personal training sessions. The objections were brutal. It was
46:55
Speaker 2: just painful. Once I got above the one hundred dollars
46:59
Speaker 2: an hour point, it became a LARTI is here.
47:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you think same too with corporate speaking. If
47:08
Speaker 1: somebody rings Melissa, who negotiates, navigates all that for me,
47:11
Speaker 1: I just find out when something's booked in. But let's say,
47:15
Speaker 1: let's not mention a number, but let's just say my
47:19
Speaker 1: typical hourly fee is ten X. And somebody comes in
47:24
Speaker 1: and they talk to Melissa, and they go, we would
47:27
Speaker 1: love to have Craig speak at our conference. Would like
47:29
Speaker 1: him to do an opening keynote. It's nine o'clock in
47:31
Speaker 1: the morning. This is where we are, this is what
47:33
Speaker 1: it's about. One is he available? Yes, he's available. I've
47:38
Speaker 1: got to talk to him. Blah blah blah, but he's available.
47:41
Speaker 1: And two what's the cost? Now? If to that person
47:45
Speaker 1: she went other cost as one x, they would go
47:49
Speaker 1: what like, not ten x, they won't balk, but one
47:53
Speaker 1: X they'll go, sorry, we're just check. So Craig Harper, right,
47:58
Speaker 1: the guy that has the podcast and wrote the books
48:01
Speaker 1: and the exercise psychology, that guy, if she went, yeah,
48:06
Speaker 1: it's one x, they wouldn't book because they think something's wrong.
48:11
Speaker 1: They'd rather pay ten times the price because we know
48:15
Speaker 1: he's good and we expect to pay a lot. We
48:17
Speaker 1: don't expect to pay next to nothing. That's fucking with
48:20
Speaker 1: my head.
48:22
Speaker 2: Oh my goods. Well, what you're basically saying is, well,
48:25
Speaker 2: we can give them to you cheap, but you'll likely
48:27
Speaker 2: get sacked after the event is over. That's scary. I
48:31
Speaker 2: want to talk about this at some point, maybe next week,
48:34
Speaker 2: because I think this is such an important topic to discuss.
48:38
Speaker 1: All right, so next week we'll talk about perception value,
48:43
Speaker 1: potential to pay versus willingness to pay or whatever. You said. Yeah,
48:47
Speaker 1: that's good, don't forget. I know you've got to go,
48:50
Speaker 1: and I know we've run late, but mate, always good
48:52
Speaker 1: to chat to you. Appreciate you.
48:55
Speaker 2: Ready to be here, and I'll see you next week.
48:58
Speaker 2: See you next week.