Latest / Ridiculous History / CLASSIC: How Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Influenced Star Trek

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CLASSIC: How Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Influenced Star Trek · Ridiculous History

0:00
Speaker 1: Folks, we're returning to you this Saturday with a classic
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Speaker 1: episode that is near and dear to our hearts, both
0:07
Speaker 1: as native sons of Atlanta or people who reside in
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Speaker 1: Atlanta now, and as longtime fans of a little franchise
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Speaker 1: called Star Trek.
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Speaker 2: A giant nerds Max, Oh, he's just giving it. He's
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Speaker 2: throwing up a throwing up the spock piece sign.
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Speaker 3: I love in the newer show lower decks the a
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Speaker 3: sarcastic thing. You can start like some characters we starcasting
0:31
Speaker 3: on the hey, stop doing that sarcastic falcon sign.
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Speaker 1: Also, that is ancient, uh, an ancient blessing from Judaism.
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Speaker 2: They kind of just told him to do something, is something.
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Speaker 1: And he did the call it even blessing.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, he did that, And you know there's some great
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Speaker 3: stories about that.
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Speaker 2: Isn't it funny though? How sometimes the most arbitrary of
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Speaker 2: choices or ad libs or whatever become just the biggest
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Speaker 2: sticking kind of cultural I love that about history.
1:02
Speaker 1: Similar to Popeye right the Sailor Man, which is still
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Speaker 1: fresh on our minds, folks. Today's story is about Star Trek,
1:10
Speaker 1: but it's also about how history can hinge on such
1:15
Speaker 1: tiny moments in our classic episode. Now we are exploring
1:19
Speaker 1: how a single conversation with a perhaps surprising fan of
1:23
Speaker 1: Star Trek shaped the course of the show. That is
1:27
Speaker 1: a global phenomenon today.
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Speaker 2: We've always talked about, you know, whenever possible, whenever it,
1:32
Speaker 2: Mas has his way talk about Star Trek on the show,
1:36
Speaker 2: and it's such an interesting, almost like model un kind
1:40
Speaker 2: of situation the way it depicts this sort of utopian
1:44
Speaker 2: world where people can get along, and people with different
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Speaker 2: races and creeds and species even can coexist, and even
1:52
Speaker 2: the battles are largely around diplomacy more so than they
1:56
Speaker 2: are about raw you know, violent type shoot them ups.
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Speaker 2: That this is a perfect example historically speaking of how
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Speaker 2: that attitude really kind of created a big cultural high
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Speaker 2: water mark moment.
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Speaker 3: I'm just thinking about Philip J. Fry from the Futurama
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Speaker 3: Star Trek episode. He says, Star Trek giving me hope
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Speaker 3: because it didn't matter if you're white, black, Klingon, Vulcan,
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Speaker 3: or even female.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I also, I will point out we don't get
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Speaker 1: to it in this episode, but I will point out
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Speaker 1: one thing about Star Trek as a universe is that
2:30
Speaker 1: the cooking is weird. There is a there is a
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Speaker 1: famous scene I think it's in Next Generation somewhere in
2:39
Speaker 1: the second season where right Riiker creates Riker is gonna
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Speaker 1: cook for a couple of the crew.
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Speaker 2: Lasky, Data, Jeordie and war Yeah, and he is.
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Speaker 1: He's cracking eggs and he's not using the replicator. He's
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Speaker 1: doing that old school. But it's insane that he gives
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Speaker 1: them each like a small bit of scrambled egg and
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Speaker 1: then serves it with whiskey. And we don't know what
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Speaker 1: time it is there at this point, but does nothing
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Speaker 1: do it with anything.
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Speaker 3: Let's all remember with Pulaski who was the doctor in
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Speaker 3: season two only Season two brought the whiskey right.
3:20
Speaker 1: Yes, However, tell us your favorite space meals, and we
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Speaker 1: hope you enjoy this episode about how none other than
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Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Junior influenced the course of Star Trek.
3:32
Speaker 2: Astronaut ice cream is my favorite space meal.
3:35
Speaker 1: And Dippin' dots are space but they are the ice
3:37
Speaker 1: cream in the future.
3:39
Speaker 2: Let's roll it.
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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio Captain's Look Sturdy
4:12
Speaker 1: zero nine zero six nine sixty six point eight. We
4:18
Speaker 1: have entered another episode of things both ridiculous and historical.
4:24
Speaker 1: My name's been whoa.
4:27
Speaker 2: That was like a Shatner meets Rod Serling kind of thing.
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Speaker 2: That was awesome.
4:33
Speaker 1: Well, that's very kind, that's very exciting.
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Speaker 2: That was I was in rapture to the point where
4:36
Speaker 2: I've almost forgotten my name, and it is, in fact
4:39
Speaker 2: Noel Brown. And I am not a treky, right right,
4:43
Speaker 2: I am.
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Speaker 1: I wouldn't describe myself as a tricky either, although I
4:47
Speaker 1: am a fan of sci fi, and you know, you
4:51
Speaker 1: and I don't particularly need a wealth of science fiction
4:56
Speaker 1: here because we have our own wizard every time we
5:00
Speaker 1: record a show, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is our
5:02
Speaker 1: long suffering super producer, Casey Pegram.
5:05
Speaker 2: Who has turned into a can of soda. That super
5:11
Speaker 2: producer sure is refreshing.
5:15
Speaker 1: And speaking of refreshing and segues, imagine yourself as a
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Speaker 1: television viewer on September ninth, nineteen sixty six in Canada.
5:26
Speaker 2: I'm there.
5:27
Speaker 1: Wow, If you're there, you're very very lucky, because you
5:31
Speaker 1: are watching that evening something that no one has ever
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Speaker 1: seen before the very first episode of Star Trek.
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Speaker 2: What the super fan community calls TOS or the original series, and.
5:43
Speaker 1: This series was revolutionary when it first aired, which was
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Speaker 1: originally I think in Canada and the later in the
5:50
Speaker 1: United States by a couple of days. In this series,
5:54
Speaker 1: viewers are treated to a more diverse cast than they
5:59
Speaker 1: are used to seeing, and that should go as an understatement.
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Speaker 2: Right, Hey, you had green women, you had alien dudes
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Speaker 2: with plenty ears. Oh, you mean diverse in terms of
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Speaker 2: the actors, right, the people, right?
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Speaker 1: Oh, and the characters as well. I mean there's a
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Speaker 1: Russian what in nineteen sixty there's a Scotsman.
6:17
Speaker 2: Yes, there is a Scotsman. Yes.
6:21
Speaker 1: And there are also people of color on the show.
6:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, specifically a lovely actress by the name of Nachelle
6:29
Speaker 2: Nichols who portrayed the character of Lieutenant Uhura. And this
6:35
Speaker 2: was important for a lot of reasons. She was not
6:37
Speaker 2: only a person of color featured in this show very prominently,
6:40
Speaker 2: but she had a position of power in the organization
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Speaker 2: of the Starship Enterprise. I believe she was the fourth
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Speaker 2: in charge.
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Speaker 1: Yes, that is absolutely correct, which also makes it a
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Speaker 1: prominent progressive step for the role of women or female
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Speaker 1: characters in these sorts of shows.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm a little Canadian boy in the mid
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Speaker 2: nineteen sixties watching Star Trek. But what's happening at the
7:08
Speaker 2: same time, Ben.
7:09
Speaker 1: Right, the civil rights movement?
7:11
Speaker 2: Ye, nothing good? I mean good. Yes, a lot of progress,
7:15
Speaker 2: but also a lot of horrible racist violence.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, We're talking protests, abuse by law enforcement officers, and
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Speaker 1: public moves toward nonviolence and pushes for equality alongside antagonistic
7:32
Speaker 1: forces who are pushing for the discriminatory status quo to
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Speaker 1: remain the same. Gene Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek,
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Speaker 1: was very much aware of this, and he set out
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Speaker 1: with the express aim of creating a show with a
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Speaker 1: multi racial cast. And the show had a lot of
7:53
Speaker 1: fans right well.
7:54
Speaker 2: It also had a message of cooperation working to solve
7:58
Speaker 2: problems between race and people of other galactic origins and
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Speaker 2: species and you know green women, right, the.
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Speaker 1: Idea, the idea that in the future humanity will overcome
8:12
Speaker 1: the current problems or the contemporary problems of the age
8:15
Speaker 1: in which Star Trek was produced. Right, So, we had
8:19
Speaker 1: massive discrimination, We also had the threat of war. There
8:25
Speaker 1: was inequality and you know economic inequality, social inequality, and
8:32
Speaker 1: Star Trek presented a picture where in human ingenuity and
8:36
Speaker 1: the inherent drive toward curiosity and drive towards self improvement
8:41
Speaker 1: created a world in which these problems were solved and.
8:44
Speaker 2: That resulted in a lot of almost philosophical discussion. The
8:48
Speaker 2: show is not super heavy on the action. A lot
8:52
Speaker 2: of it is almost diplomacy and conversations and kind of
8:56
Speaker 2: solving these problems without violence. And then of course you
8:59
Speaker 2: know they'd ended up on a and have to fight
9:00
Speaker 2: some dude in a monster suit and shoot him with
9:02
Speaker 2: their phasers or whatever. But the big message of the
9:05
Speaker 2: show was that we can solve these problems without resorting
9:08
Speaker 2: to violence. Because we were talking about the civil rights
9:11
Speaker 2: movement of the mid sixties. We're talking bombings at African
9:16
Speaker 2: American churchesters. When Birmingham, four young black girls were killed.
9:21
Speaker 2: Malcolm X, a very influential civil rights leader and activist,
9:26
Speaker 2: was assassinated. There was a divide and it was a
9:31
Speaker 2: powder keg kind of situation.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, this is one of those times where wherein people
9:37
Speaker 1: can feel the hinge of history as it swings and
9:41
Speaker 1: begin to wonder what direction it will go in. Here's
9:46
Speaker 1: the thing, folks, It turns out that the Star Trek
9:50
Speaker 1: we are so familiar with today almost took a very
9:54
Speaker 1: different direction because the actor Michelle Nichols, who's playing this
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Speaker 1: historically significant and profound role on television, almost quit.
10:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. She had a background in the performing
10:09
Speaker 2: arts in theater and got an offer to play on
10:15
Speaker 2: Broadway in a satire about Hugh Hefner and his kind
10:19
Speaker 2: of jet setting raunchy magazine Playboy entitled Kicks and co
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Speaker 2: And that she had been in this originally and then
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Speaker 2: left to do Star Trek, but after the first season
10:31
Speaker 2: she was asked to return to that and it was
10:33
Speaker 2: going to be taken to Broadway, and she was like, Okay,
10:36
Speaker 2: this is what I want to do because I think
10:37
Speaker 2: the cultural impact of Star Trek hadn't fully set in
10:41
Speaker 2: after one season at least, the fandom that we know
10:44
Speaker 2: today was not fully entrance. This was this is kind
10:47
Speaker 2: of like a well, I did one season of a
10:49
Speaker 2: kind of quirky sci fi TV show. I could take
10:52
Speaker 2: it or leave It'll maybe I'll maybe I'll move on
10:54
Speaker 2: and do something some more serious work, you know, right,
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Speaker 2: But you know, as fate would have it, thankfully, this
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Speaker 2: ended up not being the case.
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Speaker 1: Right when Nichols said the version of you know, thanks
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Speaker 1: so much for having me on the show, Geene Roddenberry,
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Speaker 1: I like to head out and pursue, as Noel said,
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Speaker 1: more serious or substance work or just something different. Rotten
11:19
Speaker 1: Berry didn't take it well and reputedly said, hey, don't
11:23
Speaker 1: rush out of this. Don't you understand what I'm trying
11:25
Speaker 1: to do here, And he told her take the weekend.
11:30
Speaker 1: Take the weekend and think it over. And during that weekend,
11:34
Speaker 1: Nichols went to a fundraiser in Beverly Hills where she
11:39
Speaker 1: was told there was a fan of this new fangled
11:42
Speaker 1: show star Trek who really wanted to meet her.
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Speaker 2: So, yeah, based on some of these reports, I guess
11:47
Speaker 2: the term Trek he existed after one season, which is
11:51
Speaker 2: pretty incredible. But as it turned out, this person that
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Speaker 2: she was told about came walking up to her and
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Speaker 2: it was doctor Martin Luther King Junior, and this is
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Speaker 2: what he said to her. According to an NPR interview
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Speaker 2: where Nichols recalls this meeting, she says, and I turn
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Speaker 2: and before I could get up, I looked across the
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Speaker 2: way and there was the face of doctor Martin Luther
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Speaker 2: King smiling at me and walking towards me. And he
12:17
Speaker 2: started laughing. By the time he reached me, he said, yes,
12:20
Speaker 2: miss Nichols, I am that fan. I am your best,
12:23
Speaker 2: greatest fan, and my family are your greatest fans. As
12:26
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, this is the only show that
12:28
Speaker 2: my wife, Coretta, and I will allow our little children
12:31
Speaker 2: to watch, to stay up late to watch because it's
12:33
Speaker 2: past their bedtime.
12:35
Speaker 1: Which is such a humanizing and important detail. I'm sure
12:39
Speaker 1: all parents will recognize. That's some rarefied air. So Nichols
12:44
Speaker 1: clearly is aware of doctor King, and King is saying
12:48
Speaker 1: that he admires her work on the show, and he
12:52
Speaker 1: admires that Gene Roddenberry, along with Nichols, has created a
12:58
Speaker 1: realistic character, right, not some sort of stereotype or object
13:04
Speaker 1: of derision or mockery. And she says, thank you. But
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Speaker 1: then she says something that you know, sounds very understandable
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Speaker 1: from from her position this conversation. She says, you know, thanks,
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Speaker 1: and I'm glad you like the show, But I feel
13:20
Speaker 1: like I should be out there with you, out there
13:23
Speaker 1: marching after out there fighting for equality, pursuing the ideals
13:27
Speaker 1: that people are putting their life in danger for.
13:30
Speaker 2: I read this quote earlier, and then I kind of
13:33
Speaker 2: immediately teared up for something. It just it just hit
13:35
Speaker 2: me in a very real way. He said, no, no, no, no,
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Speaker 2: you don't understand. We don't need you to march. You
13:42
Speaker 2: are marching. You are reflecting what we are fighting for.
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Speaker 2: He said, don't you understand what this man, Geene Roddenberry
13:50
Speaker 2: has achieved for the first time on television. We will
13:54
Speaker 2: be seen as we should be seen every day, as intelligent, quality,
13:58
Speaker 2: beautiful people who can sing and dance, but who can
14:02
Speaker 2: go into space, who can be lawyers and teachers, who
14:05
Speaker 2: can be professors, who are in this day. Yet you
14:08
Speaker 2: don't see it on television now.
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Speaker 1: And this is during the common part of the conversation
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Speaker 1: where she says I'm going to quit the show and
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Speaker 1: he is firmly against this, and he continues by saying,
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Speaker 1: Gene Roddenberry has opened a door for the world to
14:23
Speaker 1: see us. If you leave, that door can be closed
14:27
Speaker 1: because you see, your role is not a black role,
14:31
Speaker 1: it's not a female role. He can fill it with anything,
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Speaker 1: including an alien. And this left Nichols speechless.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one more line from an ama on Reddit
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Speaker 2: that Nichols did, where she said that he said something
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Speaker 2: along the lines of if you leave, they can replace
14:48
Speaker 2: you with a blonde haired, white girl and it'll be
14:50
Speaker 2: like you were never there. Well, you've accomplished for all
14:53
Speaker 2: of us. Will only be real if you stay. And
14:56
Speaker 2: she said that got her thinking about, you know, really
14:59
Speaker 2: thinking about that audience, about how fans of color saw her,
15:03
Speaker 2: and how it would feel if she left the show.
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Speaker 2: And you know, it's just it's a TV show, you know,
15:10
Speaker 2: it seems even from the standpoint of someone that's in it,
15:13
Speaker 2: you could see how it could be perceived as being
15:15
Speaker 2: frivolous and like, why does this matter? But it does matter,
15:20
Speaker 2: especially in those days when kids did not see themselves
15:23
Speaker 2: or a positive reflection of themselves in popular culture, and
15:28
Speaker 2: this was that thing.
15:30
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And this changes Nichol's thinking, right, And a few
15:36
Speaker 1: days later, she's talking with Roddenberry and she relays her
15:40
Speaker 1: conversation with doctor King and as she recalls, Rodenberry thought
15:47
Speaker 1: about it, looked at her for psycond and he said,
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Speaker 1: God bless doctor Martin Luther King. Somebody knows where I'm
15:53
Speaker 1: coming from. And so she decided to stay on the show,
15:58
Speaker 1: and the character Hura continues on for decades, right, not
16:02
Speaker 1: just on the small screen, toward the world of Phil.
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Speaker 2: And it also resulted in a very monumental moment, even
16:10
Speaker 2: if it's a little cheesy, but it was a thing
16:13
Speaker 2: that it was important cultural lately speaking. It was the
16:15
Speaker 2: first interracial kiss, and that was between William Shatner's Captain
16:19
Speaker 2: Kirk and nichols Lieutenant o'hura. And let let's have that
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Speaker 2: clip right now.
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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I'm thinking of all the times on the Enterprise,
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Speaker 1: what I was scared to dead.
16:36
Speaker 2: And I would see you so busy at Jungle Man, and.
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Speaker 1: I would hear your voice from all parts of the ship.
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Speaker 2: And my fears would fade.
16:47
Speaker 1: And now they're making me dre.
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Speaker 2: But I'm not afraid. I am not afraid.
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Speaker 1: And Uhura is a pivotal character on the show. This
17:14
Speaker 1: isn't one of those characters called and what are they
17:18
Speaker 1: called red shirts? You know, the disposable ones who are
17:21
Speaker 1: sent down to the planet.
17:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was number four man.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, she was number four, fourth in line for the throne,
17:26
Speaker 1: the space throne. And she saw in her real life
17:36
Speaker 1: the effects of her character's presence in The Zeitgeist. She
17:39
Speaker 1: relays in the same interview that she met Whoopy Goldberg
17:43
Speaker 1: during the Next Generation. The follow up franchise for Star
17:48
Speaker 1: Trek and Whoopy Goldberg PNG right, who does have a
17:52
Speaker 1: role in the Next Generation. She told Nichols that she
17:57
Speaker 1: was nine years old when she saw Star Trek and
18:00
Speaker 1: she would turn on the TV and she saw Lieutenant
18:03
Speaker 1: Uhura and ran through the house screaming, come quick, come quick,
18:07
Speaker 1: there's a black lady on TV. And she's not a maid.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and going back to that interracial kiss, that first monumental,
18:14
Speaker 2: groundbreaking interracial kiss that happened a mere seven months after
18:20
Speaker 2: Doctor King was assassinated in nineteen sixty eight, and you know,
18:24
Speaker 2: and in that scene, it's a little hammy, and then
18:27
Speaker 2: you look, you listen back to it now and the
18:28
Speaker 2: dialogue is a little overwrought, but there is real chemistry
18:31
Speaker 2: between Shatner and Nichols, and yeah, that she is a
18:36
Speaker 2: gent She's portrayed, at least as far as I can tell. Again,
18:38
Speaker 2: I'm not I don't have a deep knowledge of Star Trek,
18:41
Speaker 2: but in the scene, whatever the circumstances are, there is
18:45
Speaker 2: a genuine chemistry between them. And she has played as
18:49
Speaker 2: what could be a genuine love interest for this character,
18:52
Speaker 2: and you know that wasn't really a thing, you know,
18:56
Speaker 2: like you said, African American characters were often relegated to
19:01
Speaker 2: you know, tertiary or even lower types of roles like
19:05
Speaker 2: maids or workmen, or a lot of times even more
19:11
Speaker 2: horrible stereotypes like criminals and things like that.
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Speaker 1: And while this sounds like a clear cut, you know,
19:19
Speaker 1: tidy story with a bow on top and everything, the
19:23
Speaker 1: reality is a little bit different because behind the scenes,
19:28
Speaker 1: Nichols and Roddenberry and the show's writers were constantly butting
19:33
Speaker 1: heads with the studio, and the studio was a force
19:36
Speaker 1: of the status quo here at the time. For example,
19:40
Speaker 1: there is an episode wherein Lieutenant Uhura was written to
19:45
Speaker 1: assume the helmsman's position because all the senior officers were
19:48
Speaker 1: on a planet, but the script was rewritten to exclude
19:52
Speaker 1: that action by Lieutenant Uhura, and Nichols raised Caine over
19:56
Speaker 1: it being written out, and then, you know, her point was,
20:01
Speaker 1: when you're out in space in a dangerous situation, you're
20:03
Speaker 1: not going to have some female that goes, oh, captain,
20:06
Speaker 1: save me, save me. She was bound and determined not
20:11
Speaker 1: just to as an actor, not just to find a
20:14
Speaker 1: more prominent role for her character, but to find prominent
20:18
Speaker 1: roles for all female characters or more to up the representation.
20:23
Speaker 2: And I misspoke. That was not the first interracial kiss
20:27
Speaker 2: on American television. That was in the Wild Wild West
20:31
Speaker 2: and I spy and that was between a white actor
20:33
Speaker 2: and an Asian actress. That those were both in nineteen
20:36
Speaker 2: sixty six, But it was the first scripted kiss between
20:41
Speaker 2: a black and a white actor. And the only other
20:44
Speaker 2: one was an improvised kiss between Sammy Davis Junior and
20:47
Speaker 2: Nancy Sinatra on Moving with Nancy, and that was in
20:50
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven. Nichols said that they got a really
20:56
Speaker 2: big response from the episode and that she received an
21:00
Speaker 2: insane amount of fan mail, all positive, which you know,
21:05
Speaker 2: even in what we do, Ben, you know, every time
21:08
Speaker 2: we get an email, it's always like if we've gone
21:11
Speaker 2: on a limb on something, it's like are we going
21:13
Speaker 2: to get totally shredded or are people going to be
21:16
Speaker 2: on board? And so when you really take a chance
21:18
Speaker 2: and do something like this, it's really nice to see
21:20
Speaker 2: that overwhelming outpouring of positivity. And that was also an
21:24
Speaker 2: important cultural touchdown because from their perspective, they hadn't offended anybody,
21:29
Speaker 2: and then it, you know, became less of an issue
21:32
Speaker 2: like you said, with those studio heads and the standards
21:35
Speaker 2: and practices types there we go, Yeah, the S and
21:37
Speaker 2: p s.
21:38
Speaker 1: Right. So what we're seeing here is a fantastic and
21:45
Speaker 1: enormously important example of the role that art can play
21:50
Speaker 1: in a society.
21:52
Speaker 3: You know.
21:52
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's easy to dismiss works of fiction or
21:57
Speaker 1: works of art as largely symbolic, we're not addressing a problem.
22:03
Speaker 1: But we see that that is not the case. And
22:08
Speaker 1: because of a single conversation with one of the world's
22:14
Speaker 1: most well known civil rights icons, because of this single
22:18
Speaker 1: conversation at this party, history changed.
22:22
Speaker 2: Well. He also saw the importance of pop culture because
22:25
Speaker 2: again I keep coming back to the idea of it
22:28
Speaker 2: being entertainment, of it being pure frivolous kind of, you know,
22:31
Speaker 2: a way to pass the time. But my kid watches
22:35
Speaker 2: TV all the time. My kid has characters that she
22:38
Speaker 2: identifies with and that are important in shaping her view
22:42
Speaker 2: of herself and feeling and getting a sense of like
22:45
Speaker 2: what's okay, what's not okay, What kind of behavior is acceptable,
22:48
Speaker 2: kind of behavior is not? And she gets it from
22:50
Speaker 2: me too. As a parent, you know, I try to
22:52
Speaker 2: teach her well and what's right and to treat people
22:54
Speaker 2: with respect. But a lot of kids, what if they
22:57
Speaker 2: grow up and don't have good quality parents, I don't
23:00
Speaker 2: have parents that are teaching them right from wrong, and
23:02
Speaker 2: they're getting that primary drive from pop culture. Then they
23:06
Speaker 2: see something like that that you can feel like you're
23:09
Speaker 2: a part of this too, this thing that makes you
23:10
Speaker 2: very happy, but that you have maybe up to that point,
23:12
Speaker 2: felt sort of left out of and King saw that.
23:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's there's a doubly important part here too,
23:20
Speaker 1: because when people are seeing this and it speaks to them,
23:23
Speaker 1: they're not just seeing a show about, you know, a
23:28
Speaker 1: show about life in a city in nineteen sixty six,
23:31
Speaker 1: they're seeing themselves in the future as well, you know,
23:34
Speaker 1: and that's powerful.
23:35
Speaker 2: That's a really good point.
23:37
Speaker 1: So we would be remiss if we didn't mention another
23:41
Speaker 1: work that came out recently that I guess would also
23:44
Speaker 1: kind of qualify as science fiction, and that's the Black
23:47
Speaker 1: Panther film.
23:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I took my daughter to see that and
23:50
Speaker 2: we both loved it on the merits of it just
23:53
Speaker 2: being a badass, exciting, incredible film that is just a
23:57
Speaker 2: lot of fun. But it's blowing up box office numbers,
24:02
Speaker 2: which is something that you know, is a language that
24:04
Speaker 2: executives speak, and if you start making money on things,
24:07
Speaker 2: you're going to see more of it. But it is,
24:09
Speaker 2: it's such a different kind of film. What do you
24:12
Speaker 2: think then?
24:13
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the question is, you know, there's this genre
24:17
Speaker 1: that's encountering a huge moment in the sun right now,
24:21
Speaker 1: the superhero film or the comic right film, and these films,
24:26
Speaker 1: like many other genres, have their own problematic issues. Typically,
24:32
Speaker 1: the protagonist is going to be, you know, a white guy, right,
24:36
Speaker 1: and the other characters that exist are going to One
24:40
Speaker 1: of the criticisms you'll read or they is that they're
24:42
Speaker 1: often these two dimensional foils for the protagonist to bounce
24:47
Speaker 1: off of. Right. But in a in any well done film,
24:53
Speaker 1: which of course Casey can probably speak to or you
24:55
Speaker 1: can speak to more than I can. In any well
24:57
Speaker 1: done film, the characters might us feel real. They must
25:02
Speaker 1: have their own dilemmas, their own motivations, right, And in
25:06
Speaker 1: Black Panther, not only are these characters fleshed out with realistic,
25:13
Speaker 1: understandable motivations, personal demons. Not only are they real people,
25:18
Speaker 1: but also, at least so far as film critics are arguing, also,
25:23
Speaker 1: it exists without what would be called the white lens,
25:28
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like the the idea that
25:30
Speaker 1: there has to be a a whitewash lack of a
25:36
Speaker 1: better term, Like the story doesn't need to have all
25:42
Speaker 1: of a sudden this, you know, this messianic figure who
25:46
Speaker 1: is just white, like in you know, like in a
25:49
Speaker 1: Last Samurai, the Tom Cruise.
25:51
Speaker 2: Thing, any of that white savior stuff. Yeah, has crazy.
25:54
Speaker 2: And I just want to point out that I understand
25:56
Speaker 2: the problematic nature of two white dudes wapsying rapsotic about
26:00
Speaker 2: this stuff, but it does it is powerful, Like you
26:03
Speaker 2: knows as a dad, seeing my kid grow up in
26:07
Speaker 2: a world where there is so much more inclusivity, and
26:11
Speaker 2: she just doesn't see these things, doesn't see these lines
26:14
Speaker 2: and these divides at all. She just doesn't have it.
26:18
Speaker 2: It's not in her to have And that makes me
26:20
Speaker 2: feel really hopeful. And and so that's I'm gonna I'm
26:23
Speaker 2: gonna leave it there. But this story about Doctor King
26:27
Speaker 2: and Star Trek, I was not expecting it to get
26:30
Speaker 2: me as much as it did. And when I read
26:31
Speaker 2: that quote about him saying no, no, no, no, you
26:33
Speaker 2: don't understand you are marching, You're you're doing it right,
26:36
Speaker 2: now that I kind of started tearing up at my desk,
26:40
Speaker 2: and I was not expecting that in a story about
26:43
Speaker 2: Star Trek.
26:43
Speaker 1: And this is one aspect right of Star Trek, just
26:53
Speaker 1: as it is one aspect of the civil rights movement,
26:57
Speaker 1: one that people may not be entirely aware of. And
27:01
Speaker 1: thanks so much for listening. We want to hear from you.
27:05
Speaker 1: Do you consider yourself a trekky? If so, please please
27:10
Speaker 1: go easy on us, right, Noel.
27:12
Speaker 2: Oh Man, Please, we're we're very dainty, little baffodils or
27:16
Speaker 2: very ridiculous system, So.
27:17
Speaker 1: Please please go easy us and let us know what
27:20
Speaker 1: other cultural impacts you believe came about via Star Trek. Also,
27:27
Speaker 1: let us know if you have other examples of ways
27:30
Speaker 1: in which fiction and culture in the arts moved culture
27:35
Speaker 1: as a whole forward.
27:36
Speaker 2: And speaking of examples, here are a few examples of
27:39
Speaker 2: listener males that didn't hurt our feelings. All right, First,
27:46
Speaker 2: we have one from two too and he said to
27:50
Speaker 2: pronounce it that way, and the subject is an extra
27:52
Speaker 2: trivia for the Great Stink episode, which was a fun
27:55
Speaker 2: one to do for us. Dear Ben and Nola, warmest
27:57
Speaker 2: greetings from Malaysia. I'm a listener to the show since
28:00
Speaker 2: its inception, and I've enjoyed the various topics you guys
28:02
Speaker 2: have put out so far. Your most recent episode on
28:05
Speaker 2: the Great Stink of London was definitely an interesting take
28:07
Speaker 2: on the matter, adding some depth and perspective for me
28:10
Speaker 2: on the subject since I last heard it being mentioned
28:12
Speaker 2: in another house Stuff Works podcast plug Stuff to Blow
28:15
Speaker 2: Your Minds episode on miasma theory and the Evil Air.
28:19
Speaker 2: We didn't talk about the evil air, but yeah, that
28:21
Speaker 2: miasma theory is a doozy. Both your show and STBYM
28:25
Speaker 2: covered the historical figure John Snow, while your show additionally
28:29
Speaker 2: covered the figure John Harrington.
28:31
Speaker 1: This is interesting.
28:32
Speaker 2: What I found to be a missed opportunity for you
28:34
Speaker 2: guys may be a little trivial, he said it was trivia.
28:37
Speaker 2: Yet I can't help but mention that Kit Harrington, who
28:40
Speaker 2: portrays HBO's Game of Thrones character John Snow, at least
28:44
Speaker 2: according to the actor himself, and then he gives us
28:46
Speaker 2: a link, is a descendant of said John Harrington.
28:51
Speaker 1: What casey can we get a like a.
28:57
Speaker 2: Perfect He goes on, right, he does go on, He says,
29:01
Speaker 2: talk about coincidences. Perhaps you guys were aware, but opted
29:04
Speaker 2: not to mention due to its triviality. No, sir, I
29:07
Speaker 2: can tell you we were not, as you just heard
29:09
Speaker 2: our minds being blown, and they are in fact all
29:11
Speaker 2: over the walls right now. But just in case you
29:13
Speaker 2: guys weren't aware, I thought you might find the little
29:16
Speaker 2: tidbit amusing at least. Anyway, Thanks a bunch for putting
29:18
Speaker 2: the show together. It's been a pretty cool addition to
29:20
Speaker 2: my podcast library that I listen to during my daily
29:22
Speaker 2: drive to work. Looking forward to more great episodes regards two.
29:26
Speaker 1: Thanks so much too. As Reddit likes to say, today,
29:29
Speaker 1: I learned, and we have one more listener mail here.
29:34
Speaker 1: We been getting so many awesome listener mails it's difficult
29:37
Speaker 1: to choose just one.
29:38
Speaker 2: I know, it really is.
29:39
Speaker 1: So we're going to save all the butter Smuggler stuff
29:42
Speaker 1: for another episode.
29:43
Speaker 2: I agree. That's going to be a fun one.
29:44
Speaker 1: And there are some great things about language. I got
29:47
Speaker 1: to stop telling everybody about the emails we're going to.
29:49
Speaker 2: You know, listener mail spoilers.
29:51
Speaker 1: Dude.
29:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll just five year statute of limitations on that.
29:54
Speaker 1: We'll just be so great if somebody send us an
29:57
Speaker 1: email five years before we did the show is time
29:59
Speaker 1: travel possible different episode. Here's an email from Jared P.
30:04
Speaker 1: Jared P writes, ohoy, fellas, I'm a new fan of
30:06
Speaker 1: the show. I've been binge listening to catch up. You
30:08
Speaker 1: guys are great.
30:09
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jared.
30:11
Speaker 1: Jared continues, I lived in Japan for three years and
30:13
Speaker 1: my wife is Japanese. The KFC x miss I choose
30:17
Speaker 1: to write x mess out of sheer laziness. Notes phenomenon
30:20
Speaker 1: has been around a long time, over twenty five years.
30:23
Speaker 1: Everything I know of it is that it caught on
30:25
Speaker 1: after a successful ad campaign. Most Japanese folks don't celebrate Christmas,
30:30
Speaker 1: and those that do enjoy it for the commercial side
30:32
Speaker 1: of it more than any religious connotations. Most Japanese people
30:36
Speaker 1: think of x mess in American stereotypes, so doing something
30:40
Speaker 1: American on that American holiday, like eating fried chickens suddenly
30:44
Speaker 1: isn't so crazy. They also don't consume fried chicken and
30:47
Speaker 1: burgers at the rate we do, so it's a bit
30:49
Speaker 1: of a special occasion to go to those fast food places.
30:53
Speaker 1: KFC was the first successful fast food chain in Japan,
30:56
Speaker 1: and it's still popular today. Kentucky, as it's known here,
31:00
Speaker 1: tastes like a somehow less greasy, healthier fried chicken version
31:03
Speaker 1: of the American original, if that makes any sense. They
31:06
Speaker 1: offer rules, which is a bummer. If you're a biscuit fan,
31:09
Speaker 1: it's not bad. But if you're there and wanting to
31:10
Speaker 1: explore Japan's take on American fast food and McDonald's Tarryaki.
31:14
Speaker 2: Burger is where it's act like a good tariokey burger,
31:18
Speaker 2: I agree, we should go. We should try it.
31:21
Speaker 1: Unrelated, he concludes, I love the teaser of sorts about
31:25
Speaker 1: North Korea making a Godzilla movie. Keep up the great
31:27
Speaker 1: show and feel free to go down the Kim Jong
31:30
Speaker 1: Ill rabbit hole anytime.
31:32
Speaker 2: Cheers Jeed. I'm still really gonna lean on my idea
31:35
Speaker 2: of a rap name as being Kim Jong Ill, but
31:37
Speaker 2: just spelled like licensed to ill, you know, like ill.
31:41
Speaker 2: I think it'll be lost on ears, though when you
31:43
Speaker 2: say it's me, the rapper Kim Jong Ill, people are
31:46
Speaker 2: like booo, maybe poor taste.
31:48
Speaker 1: Maybe Kim Jong two Ill.
31:50
Speaker 2: That's pretty good, Kim Jong two Ill. I like that.
31:53
Speaker 2: Speaking of burger stuff, did you hear that Sonic is
31:56
Speaker 2: coming out with a burger that's fifty percent beef and
31:58
Speaker 2: fifty percent mushroom and it's supposedly like this green thing
32:03
Speaker 2: that like the conservationists are praising them for.
32:06
Speaker 1: Really I would try it.
32:07
Speaker 2: No, it sounds good. I love a good mushroom. I
32:10
Speaker 2: love a good burger.
32:11
Speaker 1: So you can probably tell by you can probably tell
32:15
Speaker 1: folks by the theme of our conversation that it's time
32:19
Speaker 1: for us to take a lunch break. So we are
32:23
Speaker 1: going to head out now. We'd like to think two.
32:26
Speaker 1: We'd like to thank Jared. Where would we be without
32:29
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram, So thanks to him.
32:31
Speaker 2: And also thanks to David Dennis for writing how Mlka
32:35
Speaker 2: influenced the direction of Star Trek for how stuff Works,
32:38
Speaker 2: and to our composer Alex Williams, who wrote our theme.
32:41
Speaker 2: Most importantly, thanks to you.
32:43
Speaker 1: If you want to take a page from a Jed
32:46
Speaker 1: and Two's book, go ahead and write to us with
32:50
Speaker 1: your suggestions, your reactions, your feedback on this and any
32:55
Speaker 1: other episode, and.
32:56
Speaker 2: Please do yourselves and us a favor and join us
32:59
Speaker 2: for our next episode where we talk about animal spies.
33:03
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna leave it right there, see you guys later.
33:15
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
33:19
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,