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SING! 2026 - Getty Music Worship Conference (Day 2) · That KEVIN Show

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  Speaker 1: Somewhere in the bowels of the city that never sleeps.
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  Speaker 2: Kevin mccullough radio host with salem media.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Is a man also not sleeping.
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: Syndicated radio talk show host kevin mccullough.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: And that guy would like a word with you many
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: of you know him of course.
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  Speaker 3: That kevin show is going to be great the only
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  Speaker 3: thing that could be.
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  Speaker 4: Greater of course would be that donald show but we
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  Speaker 4: don't have that so we have that kevin.
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  Speaker 5: Show Featuring the music of Dick Tunney and the Dream.
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  Speaker 6: In Color Orchestra.
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  Speaker 5: Straight ahead, everything you need to know about the top
• 0:44
  Speaker 5: headlines of the day and a perspective that will give
• 0:47
  Speaker 5: you some eternity to it. Plus, practical tips for family life,
• 0:53
  Speaker 5: spiritual life, and good.
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  Speaker 1: Old regular life. It's Kevin McCullough, Monday through Friday, on.
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  Speaker 2: That Kevin Show.
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  Speaker 5: And now, from the Connors & Sullivan Broadcast Studios, the
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  Speaker 5: man who is not what he wants to be, but
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  Speaker 5: is way grateful that he's not who he used to be, here's.
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  Speaker 2: All right, welcome back. It's That Kevin Show, thatkevinshow.com, kicking
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: off day two of Backstage at Sing, where we have
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  Speaker 2: just enjoyed picking the brains of just a handful of
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  Speaker 2: those that are involved with this conference on a massive scale.
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  Speaker 2: And it is a massive undertaking. I've been to a
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  Speaker 2: lot of different conferences. I've been to a lot of
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  Speaker 2: political conventions. I've been to a lot of large gatherings.
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  Speaker 2: Last night, when we did the 250th commemoration of American
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  Speaker 2: hymnody in the history of the church, I have to
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  Speaker 2: tell you, it was one of the most spectacular things
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  Speaker 2: I've ever experienced. And you can't really call it a concert. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: there were special guests, artists, Ricky Skaggs, Chris Tomlin, many
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  Speaker 2: others that participated over the course of the two hours
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  Speaker 2: that we were there. But it was actually the story,
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  Speaker 2: the tracing, the history of where American hymns came from,
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  Speaker 2: what they were about, how they came from many different cultures.
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  Speaker 2: And of course, Keith and Kristen, not to be unexpected,
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  Speaker 2: had a lot of them stem from the Irish roots
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  Speaker 2: that many of them came from. But when the hymns
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  Speaker 2: transferred and transgressed the Atlantic and came to America, there
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  Speaker 2: were different influences in New England from, say, the islands
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  Speaker 2: off the shore of the Carolinas, and the complete perspective
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  Speaker 2: of many different ethnicities and people groups were represented last
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  Speaker 2: night as they retraced the steps of where some of
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  Speaker 2: the most beloved hymns, and I would wager that even
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  Speaker 2: for those of you that think that hymns are, you know,
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  Speaker 2: passe and kind of old school and no longer relevant
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  Speaker 2: to worship in a style that you, you may, you know,
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  Speaker 2: give personal approval of now, you would still know most
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  Speaker 2: of the words that were sung in many of these songs.
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  Speaker 2: I was, I was thinking of just songs like how
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  Speaker 2: firm a foundation and Psalm 100, which was kind of
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  Speaker 2: kicked everything off acapella. Give me Jesus, a long time
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  Speaker 2: spiritual brought into a new, new, new settings and, I
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  Speaker 2: need the every hour. Jesus loves me. Blessed assurance. It
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  Speaker 2: is well. There is a fountain, victory in Jesus, which
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  Speaker 2: I would personally kind of categorize as a gospel song.
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  Speaker 2: It was a hymn necessarily. But there was even Bill Gaither,
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  Speaker 2: which was really funny. He was not able to attend
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  Speaker 2: in person, but he cut a video and it opens
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  Speaker 2: on a scene of Bill Gaither and It's Bill being
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  Speaker 2: his dry, normal self. He's in front of a piano.
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  Speaker 2: He's got a lot of his Dove Awards on the
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  Speaker 2: top of it. And he said, look into the camera.
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  Speaker 2: I just want to express such gratitude for there's really
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  Speaker 2: been no one that I've thought of as highly when
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  Speaker 2: it comes to the writing of hymns and gospel songs
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  Speaker 2: as my good friend Kevin Getty. And it was done
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  Speaker 2: on purpose. And they had the person off camera correct them.
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  Speaker 2: And he finally gets around to saying Keith. But some
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  Speaker 2: lighthearted moments like that giving way right into the Gaither
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  Speaker 2: song that I think really a lot of people think
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  Speaker 2: of as a hymn. Jesus, Jesus, there's just something about
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  Speaker 2: that name. DeJuan Hill was here from the choir room.
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  Speaker 2: And as a young African-American reviving gospel choir across the country,
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  Speaker 2: he led the group in Soon and Very Soon. The
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  Speaker 2: blood will never lose its power. Bless the Lord. And
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  Speaker 2: you have to understand that there are 9,000 people packed
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  Speaker 2: into this ballroom and the, the level of volume from
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  Speaker 2: the congregational singing, it was unlike anything I've ever, I've
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  Speaker 2: ever been around. I've been to huge, uh, church gatherings.
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  Speaker 2: I've never heard singing like this. Uh, then you had
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  Speaker 2: Ricky Skaggs who came brightest and best, uh, a, a
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  Speaker 2: hymn that is written by him writer that a lot
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  Speaker 2: of people know for other songs. Uh, and yet, um,
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  Speaker 2: And this, given a fresh new facelift, Ricky Skaggs bringing
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  Speaker 2: it about. And then we get into the modern era.
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  Speaker 2: And so you had Andre Crouch as a tribute. You
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  Speaker 2: had Chris Tomlin come out and do Amazing Grace with
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  Speaker 2: his additional chorus on the end. My chains are gone.
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  Speaker 2: I've been set free. We all know that one now
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  Speaker 2: in the modern church, but it was just really moving.
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  Speaker 2: And then two of the Getty songs that finished us out.
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  Speaker 2: Which I think, and this is just my opinion, and
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  Speaker 2: I know that I may be strongly opinionated about some
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  Speaker 2: of this, but it is one of those things where
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  Speaker 2: I just, I don't think I'm wrong on it. I
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  Speaker 2: think two of these songs are going to be sung
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  Speaker 2: for a century or more, but Christ Our Hope and
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  Speaker 2: Life and Death, and then In Christ Alone. And they
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  Speaker 2: had the entire cast come out that had been the
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  Speaker 2: guest artists throughout the evening, including Hilary Scott, who joined
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  Speaker 2: on the last song, who was the lead singer for
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  Speaker 2: the country rock group called Lady A. And she came
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  Speaker 2: out and led the first verse of In Christ Alone
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  Speaker 2: as a sister in Christ, which was encouraging. The whole
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  Speaker 2: night was just filled with encouragement. And it got started
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  Speaker 2: with Sinclair Ferguson talking about what the scripture says in
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  Speaker 2: its totality about singing. And he brought out some really
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  Speaker 2: important things. In this hour, the first hour backstage at
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  Speaker 2: Sing Today, We're going to go to some of the
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  Speaker 2: tape from last night. But the way that he tracks
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  Speaker 2: how God himself sings, how nature itself sings, and then
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  Speaker 2: we narrow the lens down to how we as humans
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  Speaker 2: are commanded to sing and how we do it and
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  Speaker 2: to what degree we give it our best as we
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  Speaker 2: are attempting that. All very, very moving. All very, very
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  Speaker 2: powerful things. And it turned into just a really special moment.
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  Speaker 2: By the way, if you would like to see any
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  Speaker 2: of this, I would encourage you to check out Getty
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  Speaker 2: Music's YouTube page. You can also go on gettymusic.com and
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: get a virtual attendance pass for this year's Sing 2026.
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  Speaker 2: And you can relive last night's concert online and you'll
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  Speaker 2: have access to it for a year. So I would
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  Speaker 2: encourage you to do that as well if that is
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  Speaker 2: something that sounds of interest to you. And I think
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  Speaker 2: that when you're talking about what the Sing conference is about,
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  Speaker 2: to sing, to sing to the Lord, to sing praise
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  Speaker 2: to God, which is in essence to do, as Sinclair
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  Speaker 2: Ferguson pointed out last night, it's in essence to do
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  Speaker 2: what nature's doing all the time around us. In fact,
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  Speaker 2: he made a comment that I'm going to completely butcher,
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  Speaker 2: but the concept was this. If we do not do
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  Speaker 2: what we are commanded to do by way of Scripture
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  Speaker 2: telling us to sing, Everything else around us will. And
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  Speaker 2: Sinclair pointed out that it is probably God's mercy that
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  Speaker 2: he does not allow us to hear all the ways
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  Speaker 2: that nature, both animate and inanimate, are presently singing God's
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  Speaker 2: praise back to him. Because if we were, we would
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  Speaker 2: be crushed under the goodness of what it is. The
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  Speaker 2: beauty would be too much for us to behold. The
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  Speaker 2: presence of it would be beyond what we could fathom.
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  Speaker 2: So we're going to get into a little bit of
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  Speaker 2: what Sinclair talked about last night. And you're going to
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  Speaker 2: hear from him directly. And then we've got some highlights
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  Speaker 2: from the stage. It's backstage at Sing. We're really excited
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  Speaker 2: to have you here. And Bob Lapine's going to be
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  Speaker 2: with us. You know him from Truth For Life and
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of other things on radio. He's been
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: the unofficial host, if you will, of Sing for the
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  Speaker 2: last number of years. And he'll join us. And then
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  Speaker 2: in the second hour, we hope to hear from John
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  Speaker 2: Lennox and Wes Huff, who have both been featured as
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  Speaker 2: speakers here. And then a really, really special conversation with
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  Speaker 2: Jordan Coughlin, before we're done, who is one of the
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  Speaker 2: Getty Collective songwriters. He was one of the co-authors of Christ,
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  Speaker 2: Our Hope in Life and Death. And talk about things
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  Speaker 2: from his perspective, as well as more highlights. That's all
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  Speaker 2: coming up straight ahead. Kevin McCullough, really glad to have
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: you with us. It's That Kevin Show.
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  Speaker 6: That Kevin Show.
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  Speaker 7: Here he is, from New York, That Kevin, Kevin McCullough.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back, it's That Kevin Show, thatkevinshow.com, backstage at scene.
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  Speaker 2: First year we've done this, really excited. We haven't been
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: on Radio Row or in the exhibit hall, we've been
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  Speaker 2: backstage for literally the full conference, and we get to
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  Speaker 2: keep having these great conversations with people. And I'm really
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  Speaker 2: excited to have my next one, because Jim and Kim Thomas...
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  Speaker 2: We got to meet, my bride and I, when we
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  Speaker 2: were at the Getty Christmas event in London this last year,
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  Speaker 2: though I believe you guys had come to many of
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  Speaker 2: the Carnegie dates in New York prior to that. So
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  Speaker 2: we kind of like rubbed elbows, but like we got
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: to actually get to know each other a little bit
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  Speaker 2: in London. You are not only the lead pastor at
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  Speaker 2: the Village Chapel here in Nashville, which is the Getty's
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  Speaker 2: home church.
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  Speaker 7: Actually, a founding pastor.
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  Speaker 2: Founding pastor.
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  Speaker 8: We have a lead pastor as well, but yeah, founding
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  Speaker 8: pastor and teacher.
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  Speaker 2: And curate.
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  Speaker 9: Curate.
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  Speaker 2: What is a curate? For my people that live in Pennsylvania,
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  Speaker 2: tell me what the curate is.
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  Speaker 4: My role has been one who comes alongside the lead pastor,
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  Speaker 4: the senior pastor.
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  Speaker 2: The founding pastor.
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  Speaker 7: I'm just helping you get those titles right.
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  Speaker 4: One who comes alongside her husband and cares for souls.
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  Speaker 4: And I've been in charge of the aesthetics. I've been
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  Speaker 4: on the leadership team.
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  Speaker 7: I've done a variety of things.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you're a very accomplished artist. And, Jim, you're a
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  Speaker 2: very accomplished writer and thinker and all of those things combined.
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  Speaker 2: These are also resources that have been poured into Getty Music.
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  Speaker 2: Talk to me about your relationship with Keith and Kristen.
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  Speaker 8: Sure, yeah. We met them when they came through a
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  Speaker 8: house we owned in Hillsborough Village.
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  Speaker 1: We were living in that house.
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  Speaker 8: Somebody said they were looking– this Irish couple was looking
• 11:54
  Speaker 8: for a house to rent somewhere. And we said, send
• 11:57
  Speaker 8: them over.
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  Speaker 6: We'll move.
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  Speaker 8: Kim's an artist. She likes to change things up every
• 12:00
  Speaker 8: now and then. So they walked through the house. They
• 12:03
  Speaker 8: saw some first edition C.S.
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  Speaker 6: Lewis books.
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  Speaker 8: And they thought, oh, my.
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  Speaker 2: That's it. You were done. Keith was like, Kristen, look
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  Speaker 2: at this.
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  Speaker 4: And I was working on a show. I was painting
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  Speaker 4: for a show. So I was down in my studio
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  Speaker 4: with paint everywhere. And Kristen came down. And she and
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  Speaker 4: I became fast friends within the first 20 minutes.
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  Speaker 8: Keith came to church the next Sunday. She wasn't feeling
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  Speaker 8: so well. He was actually headed to another church, but
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  Speaker 8: he was late, so he pulled off and came to
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  Speaker 8: our church and walked up to me and said, Hey,
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  Speaker 8: remember me? I'm the guy that rented your house.
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  Speaker 1: I said, Oh, that's great. I'm glad you're here.
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  Speaker 8: Don't expect a discount on the rent because you're coming
• 12:37
  Speaker 8: to the church.
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  Speaker 2: But I want to talk about something that people don't
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  Speaker 2: know about them, and that is that they purposefully decided
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  Speaker 2: to attend a local church that was in their community
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  Speaker 2: and in their neighborhood.
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  Speaker 10: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever had people... in all
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  Speaker 2: of the years I've asked about such things that have
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  Speaker 2: ever said that that was something that was important to them.
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  Speaker 2: My family drives 29 minutes when traffic's good to get
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  Speaker 2: to where we need to go. We're looking for a
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  Speaker 2: specific aesthetic when it comes to exegetical teaching. So we
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: want sound teaching. And I don't think, knowing you, Jim,
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  Speaker 2: that Keith and Kristen gave up on any of that.
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  Speaker 2: But what's the value of being in a community that
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  Speaker 2: is a local church close to the area where you
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  Speaker 2: live in?
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 8: We call that the parish mindset, the neighborhood church mindset.
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  Speaker 2: Which is how the church was in the early days.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, and Nashville is probably more churches per capita than
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  Speaker 8: most cities in America, if not the most churches per
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  Speaker 8: capita of any city. So, yes, you have lots of choices,
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  Speaker 8: but I think for them, they want to raise a family,
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  Speaker 8: start a family and raise a family. Eliza, their first child,
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  Speaker 8: came along while they were renting that house from us,
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  Speaker 8: and now they have four lovely girls, but it's all
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  Speaker 8: for them. It's all about being a part of a
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  Speaker 8: faith community that they can grow up in and serve
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  Speaker 8: and love and be a part of. Kim and I,
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  Speaker 8: having led this church for so many years, have seen
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  Speaker 8: lots of musicians in Nashville, lots of Christian. I like
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  Speaker 8: the word Christian as a noun, not an adjectival modifier,
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  Speaker 8: but a lot of Christians who are musicians who don't make, sadly,
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  Speaker 8: don't make church and community life a part of their
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  Speaker 8: lives or a priority in their life.
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  Speaker 1: These guys do.
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  Speaker 2: It's not just what you consume from the place where
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  Speaker 2: you worship, but it's also what you contribute. And there's
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  Speaker 2: a lot of accountability when you're a part of a
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  Speaker 2: body that's local. And as a senior lead pastor for
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  Speaker 2: all the years that you've been with the Village Chapel,
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  Speaker 2: what Why is that important? For people that are listening
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  Speaker 2: that are kind of on the margins, talk to them
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  Speaker 2: about why that matters.
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  Speaker 8: We grow in the context of community. If we isolate ourselves,
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  Speaker 8: we do that to our own detriment, I think. And
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  Speaker 8: so all of our life is actually in relationship with
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  Speaker 8: a triune God who is in relationship with himself, isn't he?
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  Speaker 8: And created us in his image. And so we are
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  Speaker 8: flourishing best when we are in community.
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  Speaker 4: Well, and I think, too, it's biblical. God has called
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: us to participate in the local church. And there's a
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: wonderful place in Nashville called Radnor Lake. And so many
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: people I know say, well, that's my church. That's my temple.
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  Speaker 4: That's my cathedral. I go walk at Radnor Lake and
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: feel close to God. And I always say, I'm sure
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  Speaker 4: you do. However, you're not rubbing shoulders with people who
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: are different than you. Are you in touch with the
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: widow who sits in row three? Are you in touch
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: with the young guy who's barely making his bills that
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: sits in row eight? Not only are you missing out
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: on connecting with them, but they're missing out on connecting
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  Speaker 4: with you. And so the whole point of being in
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: community is not for your own benefit, but also for
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  Speaker 4: the benefit of others. The body of Christ is... It's
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: not always convenient, but there is always a blessing.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: The inconvenience is part of the spiritual maturing process. It's, again,
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  Speaker 2: that accountability that it's one thing to go and sit
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and get a message that encourages you or music that
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: kind of strokes you in a certain way. You say, oh,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I feel emotional about this moment and so forth. But
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: it's the applying the obedience that all of that should
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: be leading to. And then if you're in community with
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: people that know whether or not, you know, that's taking root,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: then they can ask you questions and say.
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  Speaker 4: It's a discipline. You know, I've said to so many people,
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  Speaker 4: there are people that have become so important in my
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: life that I would not have walked across the room
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  Speaker 4: to meet. Except that I'm in community with them and
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  Speaker 4: suddenly I've gotten to know them and they are the
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  Speaker 4: most amazing people.
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  Speaker 2: You mentioned people that disagree. Churches is a good place
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: for those conversations to take place. And it's a, it's
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  Speaker 2: a good expansion of how we think gospel centrically because
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: we don't, we're not all alike. We all come from
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: different places and we need, that's the universality.
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  Speaker 8: Of probably one of the funnest things as a, as
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  Speaker 8: a pastor who preaches so much is to look out
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  Speaker 8: in the congregation, knowing that that person sitting right next
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  Speaker 8: to that other person, one might be a banker, the
• 17:28
  Speaker 8: next guy, a drummer that's out of work, the next
• 17:31
  Speaker 8: person over, is 40 years older than the next, the
• 17:35
  Speaker 8: diversity of the body of Christ is wonderful. The unity
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  Speaker 8: is about being in Christ. And as long as Christ
• 17:44
  Speaker 8: is our priority, then things like politics, things like education levels,
• 17:50
  Speaker 8: things like economic levels, all that, that sort of goes
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  Speaker 8: by the side and we are one in Christ. The
• 17:59
  Speaker 8: Christian faith truly does speak to all of life in
• 18:02
  Speaker 8: ways that none other does. No other religious belief system
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  Speaker 8: speaks to us that way. And here we have a
• 18:11
  Speaker 8: God who actually becomes one of us to rescue us
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  Speaker 8: and redeem us. So the embodiment of the gospel is
• 18:21
  Speaker 8: massively important in all of life, including art. So you
• 18:25
  Speaker 8: have Kim, who's a visual artist, People like Ross Wilson,
• 18:29
  Speaker 8: who's a visual artist here at the Sing Conference. You
• 18:31
  Speaker 8: have anniversaries that we mark, like the 10-year here. It's also,
• 18:36
  Speaker 8: by the way, the 25th anniversary of In Christ Alone.
• 18:39
  Speaker 8: The song itself was published in 01 for the first time.
• 18:42
  Speaker 8: And it's the 25th anniversary of the Village Chapel, our church.
• 18:46
  Speaker 8: So a lot of convergence of anniversaries this year for us.
• 18:50
  Speaker 8: Us and for the Gettys.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: For those of us that are in New York, it's
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: also the 25th commemoration of 9-11. Oh, there you go.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: And I had not put In Christ Alone and that
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: date together.
• 18:59
  Speaker 11: It's a remarkable year.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: That's an incredible year.
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: 250th anniversary.
• 19:02
  Speaker 8: Reminds us, too, the school of suffering. Sometimes God is
• 19:07
  Speaker 8: moving in such powerful ways. Right when we think, oh, no,
• 19:12
  Speaker 8: it's all, the outcomes are all horrible. And he can
• 19:16
  Speaker 8: wrench a.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Good— Well, listen, as someone who has been bemoaning the
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: political landscape in New York City for the last year or.
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: So— Well, I can't imagine.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I just— when I think about what William Tyndale went through
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: and John Piper's opening night message of the detail of
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: the end of his life, I'm like, we're still not
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: there yet. Like, do we think we've suffered? We haven't
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: quite suffered.
• 19:39
  Speaker 8: We get marginalized and ostracized.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: Big deal.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: That's not that bad.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: When people say we're being persecuted, I say no, we're
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: being inconvenienced.
• 19:48
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Jim and Kim Thomas, if people want to know more
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: about all that you're doing, where do they go?
• 19:53
  Speaker 8: TheVillageChapel.com. You can see Kim's art at KimThomasArt.com.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: And on Instagram, both of you?
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: On Instagram, both of us.
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: I'm not as disciplined there, but I'm working on it.
• 20:05
  Speaker 8: Okay. I have a podcast called Timeless Truth. And I
• 20:09
  Speaker 8: think it's actually called Timeless Truth with Pastor Jim Thomas.
• 20:13
  Speaker 8: But I don't like to speak of myself in this.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Are there links to all of those things at Village Chapel?
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: Thevillagechapel.com.
• 20:18
  Speaker 8: You should be able to find most of that. And
• 20:22
  Speaker 8: I do a weekly memory verse on TikTok, actually. I'm
• 20:26
  Speaker 8: going through the Psalms each.
• 20:28
  Speaker 9: Week, one verse or two.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: If there was ever a universe that needed scripture directly inserted,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: it's TikTok.
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: That's exactly right.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: Or as we say, the TikTok.
• 20:35
  Speaker 9: The TikTok, yeah.
• 20:37
  Speaker 12: Well.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Okay. Thank you guys for stopping by.
• 20:40
  Speaker 9: I appreciate it.
• 20:41
  Speaker 8: So great to be with you.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Coming right back, we are backstage at Sing, brought to
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: you by Food for the Poor. Stay with us. Stick
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: around for more of That Kevin, next.
• 21:08
  Speaker 7: Here he is from New York, that Kevin, Kevin McCullough.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Backstage. It's being brought to you by
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Food for the Poor. Food for the Poor, working in
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Central and South America in 18 countries for more than
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: 45 years. bring the truth of the gospel, but also
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: bring the needed food for the physical body to those
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: that need it. And they're grateful for their partnership, grateful
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: for their willingness to say, seeing 2026 is something we
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: want to support and be behind. Thank you to Food
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: for the Poor. You want to know more, go to foodforthepoor.com.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Sitting across from me, my next guest is no stranger
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: to radio. In fact, if I had you say, Well,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: give us a signature sign-on from one of the many
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: broadcast things you're known for.
• 21:53
  Speaker 13: What I always say to people is 888-588-7884 or online
• 21:59
  Speaker 13: at truthforlife.org.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: That's kind of my greatest hit. And you would know
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: if you've listened to Alistair Begg over the years that
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: that is Bob Lepine, who is also one of the emcees, hosts,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: if you will, for Sing each year. Have you done
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: all 10 of the Sings? I was here.
• 22:15
  Speaker 13: At the first one at Brentwood Baptist Church back 10
• 22:17
  Speaker 13: years ago and have watched this grow.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: So Keith conned you into it the first year, and
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: he's not giving you a pay raise sense, I'm sure.
• 22:25
  Speaker 13: Actually, we're going to talk about this today at Sing,
• 22:28
  Speaker 13: but it was about 12 years ago here in the Gaylord.
• 22:31
  Speaker 13: I was here for another convention, and Keith and I
• 22:33
  Speaker 13: were having coffee over in.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: The Cascades Lobby. It would have been the NRB. There
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: we go.
• 22:37
  Speaker 13: And I looked at him and said, you need to
• 22:39
  Speaker 13: do a national worship conference. And he said, do you
• 22:42
  Speaker 13: think anybody would come?
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And I said, I think.
• 22:45
  Speaker 13: I think you'd do okay with it.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I think after you had that conversation, he came to
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: New York and did Carnegie that year. And I think
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: he said, this friend of mine, Bob, said we should
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: do a worship conference. What do you think of that?
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I said, well, whoever Bob is, he's got a good
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: idea because you guys need to be on that. I'm
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: sure I was not the only person urging him in
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: that direction. Well, so let me start the conversation with
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: you there. The Getty Collective, the Sing Conference, even in
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: how he thought about setting this up, there's a collaborative
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: mind in the genius that is Keith Getty, who On
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: his standalone merits is a genius in terms of music
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: and to some degree spiritual depth and all the stuff
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: that he wants to embody. And yet he continually pulls
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: people into his orbit, asks questions, gets feedback, says, what
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: do you think of this? What does that say to you?
• 23:35
  Speaker 13: He has a kingdom mindset. and an entrepreneurial spirit. So
• 23:40
  Speaker 13: he is looking for ways to entrepreneurially advance the work
• 23:44
  Speaker 13: of the kingdom in his lane. I think Keith understands
• 23:48
  Speaker 13: what he's good at, what God's put him here for.
• 23:51
  Speaker 13: And so he's looking for biblically sound and creatively rich people.
• 23:58
  Speaker 13: And how can we make this a part of how
• 24:02
  Speaker 13: God advances his kingdom in the world? And that's one
• 24:05
  Speaker 13: of the reasons why next year, Sing is a global summit,
• 24:09
  Speaker 13: voices from all over the world coming, and the Getty
• 24:13
  Speaker 13: organization is really taking a more global perspective on what
• 24:16
  Speaker 13: they're doing because this is a kingdom issue that they're addressing,
• 24:21
  Speaker 13: this whole issue of how we worship well.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Bob Lapinas, who we're speaking with, Bob, let me ask
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: you about the impact of the renewal of hymnody in
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: light of, last night's unique event of 250 years of
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: American hymns. Yes. Now I noticed that Keith and Kristen
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: could not resist the impulse to start in Ireland, but
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: they did work their way all the way through, um,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Fanny Crosby, Andre Crouch, Chris Tomlin. And then we ended
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: with two of what I think will be the most
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: legacy based hymns of our era, Christ, our hope in
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: life and death and in Christ alone. Um, both of
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: which are products of the Getty Music experience. But what
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: was that like? Because as someone who is in the
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: audience kind of observing it as an attendee, it moved me.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Tears were coursing down my face at different moments. But
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: what did it mean to you to hear this two-and-a-half-century
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: span of American hymns and the richness that we experienced?
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: And to have 7,000 people singing them as loud as
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: they could.
• 25:28
  Speaker 13: One of the things that really struck me was the
• 25:31
  Speaker 13: diversity of that presentation musically. Because if you came to
• 25:36
  Speaker 13: me and said 250 years of American hymnody, I would
• 25:39
  Speaker 13: be thinking about the hymnal that I sing out of
• 25:42
  Speaker 13: all the time. I wouldn't be thinking about the spirituals
• 25:45
  Speaker 13: that were sung in cotton fields by slaves. I wouldn't
• 25:48
  Speaker 13: be thinking about the Appalachian experience. And, you know, Ricky
• 25:52
  Speaker 13: Skaggs was here singing some of those songs for us.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: So I was just struck by.
• 25:58
  Speaker 13: The musical and the cultural diversity that makes up the
• 26:02
  Speaker 13: American hymn experience. And there's a richness in all of that.
• 26:06
  Speaker 13: And there are things we can learn in all of it.
• 26:09
  Speaker 13: There are things that were sung by slaves that's not
• 26:15
  Speaker 13: been a part of our experience. So the pain that
• 26:18
  Speaker 13: they express, that sometimes I feel like a motherless child.
• 26:23
  Speaker 13: that's not been our experience for the most part. And
• 26:26
  Speaker 13: yet there's much we can learn about God and his
• 26:28
  Speaker 13: goodness and how he is a father to the fatherless
• 26:32
  Speaker 13: in those kinds of hymns. And that was one of
• 26:35
  Speaker 13: the things that as I sat there last night and listened,
• 26:38
  Speaker 13: I just thought, um, the kingdom is a big kingdom
• 26:42
  Speaker 13: and there is unity in Christ, but there is diversity
• 26:46
  Speaker 13: within the kingdom. And that's a good thing.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it was a rich, rich experience. Um, What's
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: been the most significant personal moment for Bob Lepine?
• 26:55
  Speaker 13: Well, there's so many that have been rich. I'm thinking
• 26:59
  Speaker 13: about hearing Kristen sing Amazing Grace with, I can't remember
• 27:06
  Speaker 13: who it was, Kirk Whalen was playing.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Dana Masters. That's right. That was a moment.
• 27:09
  Speaker 13: What an unforgettable moment that was. I remember Chris Tomlin
• 27:15
  Speaker 13: coming and singing Amazing Grace. Holy Forever and saying, this
• 27:18
  Speaker 13: is the most Getty thing I've ever written. And he
• 27:21
  Speaker 13: introduced that hymn to all of us. So there have
• 27:24
  Speaker 13: been many, many moments like that. I just particularly when
• 27:30
  Speaker 13: Andrew Peterson has come and led us in Is He Worthy?
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's just always a highlight for me.
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Bob Lapine, we'll hear you on the radio, but thanks
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: for stopping by. Great to see you. Backstage at Sing,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Kevin McCullough. Coming up next, we will give you a highlight,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: a taste of what Sinclair Ferguson brought us last night.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Don't go away.
• 28:08
  Speaker 7: Here he is from New York, that Kevin, Kevin McCullough.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: All right, welcome back. It's Backstage at Sing 2026. Sing
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: is in its 10th year, and one of, without question,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: one of the most valuable things about this conference is
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: the level of teaching and thinking that takes place from
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: those that come and speak. And last night, Sinclair Ferguson
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: lit us up academically and intellectually on a very important issue,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: what scripture says about singing.
• 28:42
  Speaker 10: And so he phones me and sweet talks me. You
• 28:47
  Speaker 10: must come, you'll love it. And it's Tyndale. And we're
• 28:54
  Speaker 10: celebrating the 500th anniversary of Tyndale's translation of the New Testament.
• 29:00
  Speaker 10: And he probably knows that although I'm not qualified to
• 29:04
  Speaker 10: to make the judgment. I do believe William Tyndale may
• 29:08
  Speaker 10: possibly have been the greatest Englishman who has ever lived
• 29:12
  Speaker 10: in terms of the debt that we all owe to him.
• 29:18
  Speaker 10: And then, of course, he thrills me by saying, what
• 29:21
  Speaker 10: I want you to do, Sinclair, is to speak about
• 29:24
  Speaker 10: what the whole Bible says about singing, by which point
• 29:31
  Speaker 10: I am surrendered to the great leprechaun.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: But then the dagger.
• 29:41
  Speaker 10: He says to me on the phone last week, by
• 29:43
  Speaker 10: the way, you have 30 minutes to do this. So
• 29:48
  Speaker 10: no more wasting time on Keith Getty. If we were
• 29:53
  Speaker 10: in a church service and this was the time for
• 29:56
  Speaker 10: the Bible reading, I suppose I would be saying, just
• 29:59
  Speaker 10: open your Bibles, because our text is in fact the
• 30:03
  Speaker 10: whole of Scripture. Now we don't have time this evening
• 30:07
  Speaker 10: to draw a long enough line, but what I want
• 30:11
  Speaker 10: to do is to drop down on four points in
• 30:16
  Speaker 10: the history of the Bible story, and as we proceed
• 30:20
  Speaker 10: through them, I think you may realize that without any
• 30:25
  Speaker 10: effort on our part, this straight line has begun to
• 30:30
  Speaker 10: bend itself into a circle at the center of which
• 30:35
  Speaker 10: lies what is absolutely central, not only to our worship,
• 30:40
  Speaker 10: but especially to our singing praise. When men like William
• 30:47
  Speaker 10: Tyndale and the other reformers rediscovered the teaching of Scripture,
• 30:53
  Speaker 10: they discovered that there needed to be two radical transformations
• 30:58
  Speaker 10: take place. The first was the recovery of the gospel
• 31:04
  Speaker 10: of justification by faith in Jesus Christ. The other was
• 31:10
  Speaker 10: the restoration of the true worship of God. And fascinatingly,
• 31:16
  Speaker 10: many of these men said that the first of these
• 31:20
  Speaker 10: exists for the sake of the second. That the reason
• 31:26
  Speaker 10: we need to recover the gospel is so that we
• 31:29
  Speaker 10: may recover our true sense of calling to worship and
• 31:34
  Speaker 10: glorify God and to enjoy him forever. And as a
• 31:39
  Speaker 10: result of that, they searched the scriptures to see what
• 31:43
  Speaker 10: the scriptures had to say not only about the way
• 31:46
  Speaker 10: of salvation, but about the worship, the praise, and the
• 31:50
  Speaker 10: singing of those who are saved. And what they discovered,
• 31:56
  Speaker 10: what had been hidden from them in worship services that
• 32:01
  Speaker 10: were spectator experiences, in which they observed and heard the
• 32:08
  Speaker 10: pseudo-worship of others, needed to become congregational experiences in which
• 32:16
  Speaker 10: all the people of God had the privilege of in
• 32:19
  Speaker 10: their own language singing his praise. And they discovered this
• 32:24
  Speaker 10: in a very simple way by simply realizing that when
• 32:28
  Speaker 10: the scripture said, sing, sing, sing, they were speaking not
• 32:34
  Speaker 10: to the choir singing in Latin, but to all of
• 32:39
  Speaker 10: the people of God singing the praises of God in
• 32:42
  Speaker 10: their own language. So let me try and say a
• 32:46
  Speaker 10: word or two about four points, four important points in
• 32:51
  Speaker 10: the story of the Bible that help us to appreciate
• 32:55
  Speaker 10: why we are the beneficiaries of this explosion of worship
• 33:01
  Speaker 10: and praise and especially of singing. And the first of
• 33:07
  Speaker 10: them is this. that our triune God is the creator
• 33:13
  Speaker 10: of music and himself loves singing. The great theologian Augustine
• 33:21
  Speaker 10: was once asked what God was doing before he created
• 33:24
  Speaker 10: the world, and he somewhat cynically snapped back, he was
• 33:28
  Speaker 10: creating a hell for the curious. But in fact, he
• 33:34
  Speaker 10: was doing something very different. He was engaged, as Scripture says,
• 33:40
  Speaker 10: in a literally mind-bending composition of all that he would
• 33:47
  Speaker 10: do for the history of the world. And what is
• 33:51
  Speaker 10: so remarkable about that is that insofar as the nature
• 33:56
  Speaker 10: of his creation as an artist is a reflection of
• 34:02
  Speaker 10: his own loves, bears his own handiwork, that one of
• 34:07
  Speaker 10: the first things that we discover, although not in Genesis
• 34:10
  Speaker 10: chapter 1, is that the first thing that happened in creation,
• 34:16
  Speaker 10: in the observance of creation, was singing. You remember how
• 34:22
  Speaker 10: we find this in the 38th chapter of Job when
• 34:26
  Speaker 10: Job is brought out before God and he begins to
• 34:28
  Speaker 10: question him. Were you there at the beginning of creation?
• 34:31
  Speaker 10: Were you there when I laid the foundations of the earth?
• 34:35
  Speaker 10: Did you hear what happened then when the morning stars
• 34:41
  Speaker 10: sang together and the sons of God, that is the angels,
• 34:47
  Speaker 10: shouted for joy? And it's a little indication to us,
• 34:52
  Speaker 10: just a little insight to us of the delight of
• 34:57
  Speaker 10: God in creating a world that becomes a choir of
• 35:02
  Speaker 10: praise to him and these amazing creatures that become, as
• 35:07
  Speaker 10: it were, a chorus of resounding responses of glory to
• 35:14
  Speaker 10: the God who has created all things. And so we
• 35:18
  Speaker 10: find right through the Old Testament scriptures, indeed into the
• 35:22
  Speaker 10: fourth chapter of the book of Revelation, that the God
• 35:26
  Speaker 10: who has created all things is a God who has
• 35:29
  Speaker 10: embedded music and song in every living thing that he
• 35:35
  Speaker 10: has made.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Sinclair Ferguson, backstage at Sing, highlight from yesterday. Kevin McCullough
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: coming right back from Nashville.
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: Don't go away.
• 35:47
  Speaker 14: Stick around for more of That Kevin, next. Serving it
• 36:02
  Speaker 14: up with a no-drink minnow. It's that Cabin Mac show.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Continuing backstage at Sing, coming up next hour, a whole
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: bunch of treats for you. Jordan Coughlin's going to be
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: with us, Wes Huff, John Lennox, and more music from
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: last night's big 250th observation of the American Hymnal. Cabin Mac,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: though we end this first hour with Christ My Hope
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: in Life and Death.
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: Is our only.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: What will we see?
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Christ, he lives.
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: Christ, he lives.
• 39:04
  Speaker 12: And what reward will heaven bring?
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: Everlasting life within. There we will rise.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Jordan Coughlin.
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: Thank you, Matt Boswell.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Somewhere in the bowels of the city that never sleeps.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Kevin McCullough, radio host with Salem Media.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Is a man also not sleeping.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: Syndicated radio talk show host, Kevin McCullough.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: And that guy would like a word with you. Many
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: of you know him from his votes for Damas.
• 41:05
  Speaker 12: Of course that Kevin show is going to be great.
• 41:07
  Speaker 15: The only thing that could be greater.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Of course, would be that Donald show. But we don't
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: have that, so we have that Kevin show.
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: Featuring the music of Dick Tunney and the Dream.
• 41:16
  Speaker 6: In Color Orchestra.
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: Straight ahead, everything you need to know about the top
• 41:30
  Speaker 5: headlines of the day and a perspective that will give
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: you some eternity to it, plus practical tips for family life,
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: spiritual life, and good.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Old regular life.
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: It's Kevin McCullough, Monday through.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Friday, on That Kevin Show.
• 41:47
  Speaker 6: That Kevin Show.
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: And now, from the Connors & Sullivan Broadcast Studios, the
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: man who is not what he wants to be, but
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: is way grateful that he's not who he used to be,
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: here's The Devil!
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: All right, glad to be with you backstage at Sing 2026.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Kevin McCullough is my name, and we are just so
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: thrilled to be able to bring you just little snippets
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: of behind-the-scenes footage what's happening at the nation's most important
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: worship conference. There are several that are held. In my estimation,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: this is by far the most important. It's the only
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: one that takes on critical thinking and doctrine and theology.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: And if you're going to talk about worship, if you're
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: going to talk about it in an actual substantive viewpoint,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I think you have to have all of those pieces
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: as part of the conversation. So we have been very
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: humbled to be able to be here. Thank you to
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Food for the Poor who has made this possible. If
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: you are not familiar with what Food for the Poor does,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: listen to my show for any length of time because
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: every year we help advocate for them as they are
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: feeding the victims of hurricanes, earthquakes, tragedy breakouts throughout Central
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: and South America. And they do it in the name
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: of Jesus. They do it with his love. They do
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: it with actual food and things that help them. And
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: when you give a plate of food through them, you're
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: making a world of difference for someone that needs it.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: I want to draw a special attention to another sponsor
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: of our show that we have been in the midst
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: of a campaign with actually in recent days, because it
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: is directly relevant to what seeing is talking about. This
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: year's theme is celebrating a lot of different anniversaries, but
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: one of them is the 500th commemoration of the Tyndale
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Bible and what it has meant to the English language,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: what it has meant to English literature, what it has
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: meant to the advancement of the English-speaking church. And as
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: I mentioned to you on the first day, John Piper
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: on the very first night gave us an in-depth understanding
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: of the pain and challenge and risk that William Tyndale
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: went to to do the translation such that he was
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: able to for the Tyndale Bible those 500 years ago.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't the full Bible. It was the full
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: New Testament. It was about half of the Old Testament.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: And so when you put it all together, it's about
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: three-fourths of the scriptural text. But that's not the end
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: of the story. What happened from that point was that
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: upon his martyrdom, when he was living the last 14
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: years of his life on the run and eventually imprisoned
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: and killed in Brussels, what happened was that that text
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: The three-fourths, the 75% of the Bible that he had
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: been able to translate was actually the foundation for what
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: became the English-speaking Bibles of the time. The Geneva Bible,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: the English Standard, and also the King James. The King
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: James most famously becoming the most enduring English translation that
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: is even still printed and used and read today. Um,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: but it was, it was William Tyndale's work as the
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: translator that made all of that possible, made all of
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: that happen. And that was where we started, uh, backstage
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: at seeing this year, because that was the very first
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: night John Piper bringing that message home. And then as
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: the symphony of scripture has played out, if you will,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: over the last three or four days, the importance of
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: the Bible keeps coming to the top of mind. Why
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: are you bringing that up Kev for this very reason?
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: I've been asking you in recent days to stand with
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Bible League International who take copies of God's word translations
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: in the languages of people who need them to places
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: on the earth that do not have copies of God's
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: word for themselves. They can't afford them. They may not
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: be able to get them. There's various reasons. They may
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: be economic. They may be governmental. It may be geopolitical.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: It may be, um, It may be in some essence
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: war or terrorism or other things, but copies of God's
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: word not getting into places that the Bible League is
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: actually being able to print and get those Bibles into
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: the hands of those believers who are asking for them
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: for the cost of $ 5 per copy. Right now, if
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: you call and make a gift right now, it's going
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: to be matched, by the way, dollar for dollar. So
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: if you think about it, you're actually getting Bibles into
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: the hands of people for $ 2. 50 per copy. in their language,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: in some of the most persecuted places on earth. We
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: had Todd Nettleton from Voice of the Martyrs here yesterday.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: He was talking about how the line of persecution in
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: the continent of Africa runs right through the middle of it,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: but it keeps going further and further south. Each year,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: the Islamic forces keep pushing further and further. And what's
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: happening is that the Christians that are living in those
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: regions are being persecuted tremendously. These are some of the
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: same people requesting copies of God's word for themselves. Why
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: are they asking for that? Why wouldn't they be asking
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: for reprieve from their circumstances or in some way relief
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: from the pain or the persecution that they're enduring? Because
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: they know that in the scriptural text, in the text
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: of God's word, there is hope and there is truth
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: that is found nowhere else. So I'm asking you at
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: 1-800-937-9673 if you would consider making a gift to Bible League.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: And maybe it's because some of what we've talked about
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: backstage is seeing the last couple of days has really
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: kind of hit home. You've been able to understand how
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: valuable those words being translated into modern languages is and
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: what a difference it makes. 800-937-9673. If you can make
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: that help right now, please do so.
• 47:41
  Speaker 6: 1-800-937-9673.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: You can also just go on thatkevinshow.com. click the Bible
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: league banner at the top of the page or anywhere.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: There's lots of banners all over the place actually, but
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: go on there, click the Bible league banner and then
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: make a gift knowing that you're kind of advancing the
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: same cause that seeing has been highlighting for the last
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: two days. It's really, it's really a God thing. All
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: this stuff works together, but that's exactly what we came
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: here to celebrate. And it's 9,000 people singing last night
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: hymns from the first 250 years of America's history and,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: And ultimately being pointed to scripture as it's as our
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: ultimate authority and truth and everything we need for our lives.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: And friends, if you're not a believer, if you're not
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: someone who buys into anything that I ever talk about,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: that's OK. I'm grateful that you're here. I'm grateful that
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: you're listening. And I hope that you keep being here
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: and you keep asking questions and you keep sending questions
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: about it. But now let me tell you what's coming
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: up this hour. Professor John Lennox is going to be
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: with us and Wes Huff. Wes was with us a
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: couple of nights ago at the opening session talking about
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: what biblical intelligence looks like. He's going to be back
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: with John Lennox, and they are going to discuss biblical
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: and artificial intelligence in the modern era. We can't give
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: you their entire talk. It would be too long. We'd
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: take too long. But we can peek in on it
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: and give you a real good sample of it. And
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: then if you want more info, go to GettyMusic.com. and
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: buy one of the virtual subscriptions to this year's sing,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: and you can get all of the sessions for the
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: rest of the year, at no extra cost. But go
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: and do that discussion coming up this hour. And then
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: a little bit later on, Jordan Coughlin, who is one
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: of the Getty Collective songwriters, who's also a worship pastor
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: in the Atlanta area and someone who does a good
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: deal of writing on his own, is going to join
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: us and we're going to talk about the challenge of
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: worship leaders and what they face and what they're up
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: against and what collaboration looks like and why it's good
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: or sometimes a challenge. And we'll discuss all of that.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: And then before we're done, another highlight of last night's
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: 250th commemoration of the American hymnal, what it means, what
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: it has meant. I was there in person. It was
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: a moving, devastatingly moving evening multiple times tears welled up
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: in my eyes and rolled down my cheeks because I
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: was confronted face to face with lyrics that have outlived
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: everyone I know but that communicate God's timeless truth and
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: have not let go of me yet friends if you
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: don't understand that's one of the greatest gifts that God's
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: given us I just hope that you do and I
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: hope you keep listening and I hope you keep coming
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: back because that's what we're going to be telling you
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: about on a regular basis Kevin McCullough, very special. Backstage
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: at Sing. We continue next.
• 50:40
  Speaker 6: Here he is from New York. That Kevin.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Kevin McCullough. Continuing Backstage and Sing, it's that Kevin show
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: brought to you by Food for the Poor. And we
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: are so grateful for their partnership in helping make this possible.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Today in the final plenary session, John Lennox, great thinker,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: UK academic, and someone who has written extensively on the
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: dangers of our culture and the stuff we are facing,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: joined with Wes Huff. And they had a back and forth,
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: if you will, kind of like an interview, but really
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: more of a panel discussion today. on the influence of
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: AI and Christianity, biblical and artificial intelligence. Let's take a listen.
• 51:39
  Speaker 16: You remember what scripture said, man shall not live by
• 51:45
  Speaker 16: bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: The mouth of God.
• 51:50
  Speaker 16: If reading declines, reading scripture will decline, and so Christians
• 51:56
  Speaker 16: will not thrive. That's the first major angst and concern.
• 52:02
  Speaker 16: There's a second one. Our only offensive weapon in defending
• 52:08
  Speaker 16: the Christian faith is the scripture. It is the sword
• 52:12
  Speaker 16: of the spirit. And if we don't read and prayerfully
• 52:16
  Speaker 16: meditate on it, then, of course, we are going to
• 52:20
  Speaker 16: render the Christian church totally defenseless. Now, in this special sing, Celebrating...
• 52:28
  Speaker 16: 500 years of the English Bible wouldn't it be an
• 52:33
  Speaker 16: utter tragedy if this was the year above all years
• 52:38
  Speaker 16: where we forgot the work the sacrifice the suffering of
• 52:44
  Speaker 16: the men and women that gave us the Bible in
• 52:47
  Speaker 16: our own languages and neglected to read what they produced,
• 52:54
  Speaker 16: and in the end decided to replace God by an
• 53:01
  Speaker 16: artificially intelligent little god and become dependent on it and
• 53:07
  Speaker 16: become subject to the machine. That's my main angst, Wes.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Do you share it? Well, yes.
• 53:17
  Speaker 17: Don't disagree with John Lennox on stage, right? It's, I
• 53:21
  Speaker 17: can't help but think, you know, as you were talking, John,
• 53:25
  Speaker 17: and thinking about the proto-reformers, individuals like John, you know,
• 53:30
  Speaker 17: Jan Hus and John Wycliffe, and then Luther and William
• 53:34
  Speaker 17: Tyndale himself, is one of their main acts in their
• 53:39
  Speaker 17: day was an institutional mediary between God's word and the
• 53:46
  Speaker 17: regular person. And I can't help but think that That
• 53:51
  Speaker 17: as the proliferation of something like large language learning models,
• 53:57
  Speaker 17: AI develops, that though we have mass literacy in terms
• 54:02
  Speaker 17: of the availability of the written word, that we reintroduce
• 54:07
  Speaker 17: an institutional mediary in that. When Tyndale himself goes to
• 54:13
  Speaker 17: London in October of 1521 to seek the financial backing
• 54:21
  Speaker 17: of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Bishop Tunstall, and finds hostility,
• 54:28
  Speaker 17: one of the things that Tunstall does, just a year
• 54:32
  Speaker 17: after in 1552, is not only does he burn those
• 54:38
  Speaker 17: early versions of Tyndale's New Testament's, But his decry is
• 54:43
  Speaker 17: that how could the people understand the word?
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: What is the danger of the people.
• 54:48
  Speaker 17: Understanding the word of God without the mediary of the
• 54:54
  Speaker 17: church telling them what to believe? And so I think
• 54:57
  Speaker 17: my angst would be, you know, we live in an
• 55:00
  Speaker 17: amazing age with the availability of the word of God
• 55:04
  Speaker 17: and particularly readable, understandable English translations. But I worry that we're...
• 55:12
  Speaker 17: we're removing ourselves from actually delving into understanding that word.
• 55:19
  Speaker 17: I think there's so much hope in what a lot
• 55:23
  Speaker 17: of this technology can contribute.
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: What hope do you see, Dr.
• 55:29
  Speaker 17: Lennox, with going from maybe a dystopian perspective and ignoring,
• 55:35
  Speaker 17: trying not to swing the other way in a utopian perspective,
• 55:39
  Speaker 17: But how do you think we should think properly about
• 55:43
  Speaker 17: the ways that technology can aid us in the 21st century?
• 55:49
  Speaker 16: I think the important thing is not to separate into
• 55:54
  Speaker 16: tech optimists and tech pessimists. We've got to be both
• 55:59
  Speaker 16: at once for the simple reason that we live in
• 56:03
  Speaker 16: a wonderful world created by God. But it's a world
• 56:08
  Speaker 16: in which we human beings created in this image have
• 56:11
  Speaker 16: been damaged by the entry of sin into the world.
• 56:16
  Speaker 16: The Lord Jesus, who showed us the love of God,
• 56:19
  Speaker 16: also warned us that there was an enemy, the devil,
• 56:24
  Speaker 16: who has set out to destroy us. So what we
• 56:28
  Speaker 16: are finding is that AI, like all other technology, is
• 56:35
  Speaker 16: like a sharp knife. You could use a sharp knife
• 56:40
  Speaker 16: to perform a surgical operation and save a life, but
• 56:44
  Speaker 16: you could use it for murder. So we've got to
• 56:47
  Speaker 16: hold these two things in tension, the bright side and
• 56:50
  Speaker 16: the dark side. And both are there and we must
• 56:54
  Speaker 16: be realistic about them. And it's worth mentioning when we're
• 56:59
  Speaker 16: thinking about the Bible that at the moment, AI is
• 57:03
  Speaker 16: being used very effectively by Bible translators around the world
• 57:09
  Speaker 16: to put scripture into new and difficult and complex languages,
• 57:14
  Speaker 16: which is a wonderful plus. But our danger is that
• 57:19
  Speaker 16: what is excellent as a tool to help us search
• 57:23
  Speaker 16: out things, although we need to check them because it
• 57:27
  Speaker 16: can get things wrong, it becomes a very dangerous master.
• 57:33
  Speaker 16: And the battle in each of our hearts and minds
• 57:37
  Speaker 16: will be between those two sides.
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: And so.
• 57:42
  Speaker 16: We need, I believe, serious Christian believers actually involved in
• 57:48
  Speaker 16: AI research so that they can bring their biblical ethical
• 57:53
  Speaker 16: principles to bear and in some way resist the domination
• 57:59
  Speaker 16: of AI in our culture and in our society. But
• 58:03
  Speaker 16: you're exactly right that... If we don't read and meditate
• 58:09
  Speaker 16: on scripture, there's going to be no spiritual dimension to
• 58:14
  Speaker 16: what is produced. And it's a very serious business. I
• 58:19
  Speaker 16: read an article just recently where a famous American commentator
• 58:24
  Speaker 16: was giving a valedictory address at a top university in
• 58:29
  Speaker 16: the USA. And he asked a question of the students.
• 58:33
  Speaker 16: He said, I'd like to know from you, What book
• 58:36
  Speaker 16: has influenced you most in the past four years of
• 58:40
  Speaker 16: your study? Embarrassed silence until a student put up his
• 58:44
  Speaker 16: hand and said, Sir, you don't understand. None of us
• 58:47
  Speaker 16: in this room have read a complete book in the
• 58:50
  Speaker 16: last four years. We don't do that anymore. We only
• 58:54
  Speaker 16: get excerpts. And that, to my mind, is an absolutely
• 58:58
  Speaker 16: devastating indictment of the dark side of artificial intelligence. I
• 59:05
  Speaker 16: don't know whether you want me to talk, Wes, about
• 59:08
  Speaker 16: what gives me hope and a wider Christian sense.
• 59:13
  Speaker 17: Yeah, I mean, I read a study recently that did
• 59:15
  Speaker 17: a meta-analysis of surveys, and at the end of it,
• 59:21
  Speaker 17: it came with the result that more individuals in North
• 59:24
  Speaker 17: America have used an online gambling website than have read
• 59:28
  Speaker 17: a book cover to cover. And I think, you know,
• 59:32
  Speaker 17: there's a grave concern in that. But in terms of
• 59:38
  Speaker 17: thinking Christianly, Dr. Lennox, I think there's also an encouragement.
• 59:43
  Speaker 17: We can introduce people to the word of God, to
• 59:47
  Speaker 17: the truth and the profound beauty that we've, I mean,
• 59:52
  Speaker 17: us here over the last few days, we've sung about.
• 59:58
  Speaker 17: How do we encourage people to speak life into the
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 17: world around us?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 16: Yes, well, that is a profound challenge. One of the
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 16: ways of doing that is, of course, sharing life. as
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 16: much as we can with individuals and overcoming the natural
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 16: fear barrier that many of us have and not to
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 16: be ashamed because we've got some wonderful things to say.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 16: Let me just mention a couple of them that relate
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 16: to this issue. The first is this. We need to
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 16: avoid anthropomorphizing artificial intelligence and treating these machines as if
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 16: they were human. We need to recall that AI simply
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 16: plays the imitation game, as Alan Turing called it. It
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 16: simulates intelligence, but it hasn't got real intelligence. Because here's
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 16: the glorious thing about human beings. God has linked intelligence
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 16: with consciousness. AI is not conscious, and we must beware
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 16: of treating it.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: That's John Lennox and Wes Huff from Scene 2026, where
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: we are backstage. It's That Kevin Show. And when we
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: come back, an exclusive sit-down with one of the songwriters
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: of the Getty Collective, Jordan Coughlin. Stay with us.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 14: Stick around for more of That Kevin next week.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 7: Here he is from New York. That Kevin. Kevin McCullough.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: All right. Welcome back. It's backstage at seeing it's that
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Kevin show that Kevin show dot com. Glad to have
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: you with us. You know, all the years that Keith
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: and Kristen had been coming to New York to do
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: the Christmas show at Carnegie. we would regularly have, Keith
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: would call them coffee talks. We'd be just like, hey, Kev,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: let's go get a cup of coffee. So we'd do that.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: And I remember that he would be thinking and dreaming
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: and talking about all the things that he wanted to do.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Little did I know that he'd get about 90% of
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: them done in 10 years, which is exactly why we're
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: here at Seeing at this point in time. Sitting across
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: from me is Jordan Coughlin. And Jordan, one of the
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: things that I remember, Keith, like picking my brain about
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: and saying, we need to do more of this, was
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: he was already starting to talk about the hymn collective
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: and getting musicians in rooms together and collaborating and talking
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: to one another and critiquing one another and letting multiple
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: eyes look at the same sets of lyrics and chords
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: and progressions and all the stuff that goes into songwriting
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: for the purpose of not having anybody's ego be injured
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: or deflated or inflated, but to say, how can we
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: write better songs? You've been part of that collective process now.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 9: I don't know how many years. I have the scars
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 9: to prove it.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: But from that conversation to what has been produced now,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: I would say that some of the strongest things that
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Getty Music has produced has come from that process. Can
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: you take us into that writer's room and what some
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: of those sessions have been like?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I definitely can.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 11: I do think that there is something inherent in congregational
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 11: songwriting that behooves a collaborative process. Is that because the
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 11: end result ends up being collaborative?
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 9: Yes, exactly.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 11: Because the end result, the whole design of it, is
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 11: that you're giving something for people, other people, to sing
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 11: and own.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 9: And artists... People can join in if they want to.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 11: But so much of it is about their individual perspective,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 11: their individual voice, their, you know, whatever. So corporate singing
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 11: is exactly that.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 9: It's corporate.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 11: And so the process of, I actually do want to
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 11: show this to other people so that they can give
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 11: feedback because the whole goal is something much bigger and
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 11: outside of myself. But to your point, it takes a
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 11: lot of humility.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Well, that theory... has now been tested for a few years,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: and you've got more than a few people that are
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: in the collective and have been working together. Has it
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: been successful by the bar you just set?
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 11: I would say it has been. I think we, on
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 11: the whole, all of us have written better songs than
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 11: we could by ourselves. And, I mean, you see that
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 11: in the best writing duos. The sum of the two
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 11: together makes something better. And I think, you know, songs
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 11: like Christ Our Hope, Our Life, and Death, there was
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 11: a cumulative impact of all the different voices and different
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 11: giftings that the end product was, I think, better than
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 11: any of us could have written by ourselves.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I've asked Keith this, and I don't know if
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to say this out loud or not, but
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: he told me.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 9: Secret save with me.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: He thinks it's the best song that they've ever produced.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: And that's standing in the enormous shadow of In Christ Alone,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: which was also a collaborative effort.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: But not nearly as intensive or as big. It was
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: two instead of, what, five?
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 9: It was five.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Talk about, from that perspective, when you're in those sessions,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: and I do this for my living, but I also
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: serve in a local church. On a local worship band.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I only serve one time a month. We've got guys
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: that are on staff and there's other people that play
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: much more often than me. But I probably consume more
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: worship than produce it in terms of my participation in it.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: One of the things that has stood out to me
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: in recent years is that there has begun to be
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: a bit of a shift back to... doctrinal soundness, which
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: I'm happy about. I don't know that sloppy wet kisses
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: are necessary. I do think thinking about the cross is
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: more productive. And see, just the fact that I say that,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: you already know that there was a zeitgeist in terms
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: of what worship music was. So we've started to turn
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: that corner and correct the doctrinal side. There's still a
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff coming out that seems to be, even
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: if it's not as I don't really think that phrase
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: is vulgar, but even if it's not as blunt or
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: as whatever you want to fill in that blank with,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: there's still a lot of focus on me and my
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: experience and myself and my... And I'm all for that
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: being expressed, especially in art, from people that experience God
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: in intimate and personal ways. But talk to me about
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: congregational singing, per se, and some of the emphasis where... Because...
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: In my own church, and I'm grateful to have a
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: pastoral staff that will read my emails and say, we
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: hadn't thought about it that way, Kev, but let's think
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: about it. There are times when I think, okay, it's
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: good that we're saying that this is something that he's
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: done for us, but where's the declaration of his greatness
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: and his might? And he created all things, and he
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: deserves our worship, not because of the good stuff he's
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: done for us. It's because he's God. Do you understand?
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 11: Yeah, I do think, I mean, it's actually very similar
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 11: to preaching in that we can, it matters where we start.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 9: Good preaching starts with the Bible.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 11: And then as we expound the Bible, obviously it has
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 11: implication and application to us, but. We've all probably heard
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 11: preachers that start with us.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 11: And then go to the Bible and look for what
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 11: we can benefit, how we can benefit.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: Proof texting is not good exegesis.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 11: I think similarly, it matters where you start when it
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 11: comes to songs.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 11: Because if we start with the Bible, it will certainly
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 11: have impact on us. The Psalms is full of singular
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 11: personal pronouns.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 11: But it is all with an eye towards our creator,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 11: our savior, our maker, our king, our Lord, rather than
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 11: us trying to find as quickly as possible how it
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 11: benefits us.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 7: Here he is from New York, that Kevin.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 6: Kevin McCullough.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Texting is not good exegesis.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I think similarly, it matters where you start when
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 9: it comes to songs.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 11: Because if we start with the Bible, it will certainly
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 11: have impact on us. The Psalms is full of singular
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 11: personal pronouns, but it is all with an eye towards
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 11: our creator, our savior, our maker, our King, our, you know, Lord,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 11: rather than us finding, trying to find as quickly as possible,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 11: how it benefits us. And, and doing that actually serves
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 11: to deepen and strengthen our faith in the best way
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 11: because songs are so powerful.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 11: But a lot of songs, I would just say they're
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 11: generally true. but they don't necessarily deepen our faith because
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 11: they start with us. So, I mean, that's one of
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 11: the reasons why we try to, as much as possible,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 11: stay close to Scripture in the songs that we write,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 11: because we believe that if we start there, we're on
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 11: solid foundation.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Are there some enumerated governing principles to the collective?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 11: Very simply, we're trying to write things The best songs,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 11: meaning melodies that stand the test of time and lyrics
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 11: that are profound and that matter in the life of
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 11: a Christian. I think that's what galvanized the original group together.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 11: We all can write songs.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we have.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 11: Yeah, but the hard work of trying to write the
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 11: best songs.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 11: There's a lot of grit involved. There's a lot of
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 11: hard work involved. There's a lot of humble posture involved.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 11: And so most of these songs, I mean, if you
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 11: go down the list, most of these songs were written
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 11: over months and years because we were willing to work
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 11: on them.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Which is something that AI will never be able to replace.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: For all of you people that are worried about generative stuff,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: you're not going to be able to write these level
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: hymns from that position. Speaking of which, let's talk about
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: that for a second. I have a wonderful sponsor by
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: the name of Dominion.Chat, started by three pastors in Florida
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: that are concerned about AI's prevalence and want to have
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: a Christocentric, bibliocentric, truth-centric AI system in place. And so
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: they've developed this Dominion.Chat that those of you listening, you
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: can use it just like ChatGBT or Clawed. But when
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: you ask it a reflective question about what's the purpose
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: of man's soul, it's not going to tell you, well,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: whatever you want it to be. It's going to aspire
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: to tell truth. But there does seem to be an
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: enormous pushback on varying levels of degrees from varying levels
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: of musicians about what role AI should play in music.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: going forward, whether it's just simple mix mastering, whether it
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: is generating tracks, imagining settings and so forth that hadn't
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: been done before. What's Jordan Coughlin's view of all this?
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: Are you an adapter?
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 11: I can only speak personally. I do not want to
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 11: begin to try to speak for everyone.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: I realize this would be way too big.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 9: Yeah, personally, I.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 11: I exist in a tension, which I think is a
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 11: good tension. One is I firmly believe that it is
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 11: the struggle and the wrestle, both in our faith and
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 11: creative acts, that produce the best fruit.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 9: And this is true across any area of our life, right?
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 11: If I always have an easy out, an easy answer,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 11: an easy place to go for information, I never wrestle.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 11: I never struggle. And, I mean, studies have been done.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 11: I'm no expert, but, you know, our brains need that.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 11: Our brains need to wrestle. The butterfly comes out of
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 11: a cocoon.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 11: And so I'm a firm believer in that. And the
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 11: other side of it is... there is helpful resources that
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 11: we can utilize to assist us in that work. Um,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 11: and I, I do think that it will become a
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 11: conscience decision for many Christians of where that line falls. Um,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 11: I have my own personal convictions as it relates to
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 11: how I use AI in songwriting. Uh, people may, you know,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 11: be a little on, on one side or the other
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 11: of that.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because, um, on the non worship side
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: of things, there's a fellow by the name of Charlie
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: Puth that some people know pretty well. Um, I think
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: he's kind of a master level musician and how his
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: brain works. Um, and yet he sits on the advisory
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: board of Moises, which is one of the biggest AI
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: tools that musicians are using and can use. And the
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: way he is encouraging creative, um, implementation, I would say,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: is something that's very far cutting edge. And here's my
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: fear for the church. When it came to radio, when
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: it came to internet, when it came to just about
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: every emerging technology that you could use to amplify messaging,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: the church always dragged its feet and said, not on
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: my watch. There's something evil about that technology stuff. I
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: hope and pray that we don't go down the same
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: path Because AI is becoming such a divisive and precision
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: tool that I think the church has to have a
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: position on it. And we have to be able to
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: not only talk about it with integrity, but with intellectual honesty.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 9: Yes, yes, with knowledge. Yeah, I 100% agree.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 11: And I think that, like you said, it plays itself
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 11: out in history that God is Lord over all of it.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 11: And I think as Christians, our job is to evaluate
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 11: and then adopt and try to redeem where we can
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 11: to use it for God's glory.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: My Reformed friends talk a lot about spherical sovereignty, and
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: I've always believed in that very strongly. Even before I
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: was reformed, I thought, this is something I buy into.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: Because what's the purpose of us being here if it's
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: not to touch everything for the truth and the glory
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: of God?
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: Right, right.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 11: And as a songwriter, I'm trying to do that, right?
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 11: I'm trying to utilize the common gifts of grace, of
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 11: lyric and melody and music in general for the.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 9: Glory of God.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: What's next for Jordan Coughlin?
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 9: Great question.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 11: Well, I'm a local church pastor and worship leader in
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 11: a growing church in Atlanta. So a large portion of
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 11: my job is doing that. But I'm continuing to write.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 11: I released an album earlier this year called All I
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 11: Have is Christ. And so continuing to kind of promote that.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: Is it congregational in feel? It is, yeah.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 11: So it's ten songs kind of of the past eight
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 11: to ten years of songwriting. And so several of them
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 11: have already been released. I just re-recorded them and a
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 11: few new ones as well.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: Well, Jordan, thanks for taking some time with us.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 9: We're grateful. Happy to do it.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: Kevin McCullough coming back from Nashville backstage at Sing. Stay
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: with us.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 14: Stick around for more of That Kevin next.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Serving it up with a no-drink minimum. It's that Kevin
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: Mack Show.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 6: Final few minutes backstage at Sing for 2026.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 7: Last night, from the 250-year hymnody recollection by the.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 9: Gettys and special guests, they ended, as.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: They should have, in Christ alone.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: Song this evening we have a very special guest who
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: is going to sing verse one for us we can
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: enjoy listening to her sing that and then she will
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: lead us on throughout it she is a nine-time grammy
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: award-winning lead singer of lady a and child of god
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: will you welcome hillary scott to the stage.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 15: In Christ alone, my hope is found. He is my light,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 15: my strength, my song. This cornerstone, this solid ground. firm
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 15: through the fiercest drought and storm.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 12: What heights of love what depths of peace when fears
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 12: are stilled when striving cease my comforter my all in
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 12: all here in the love of christ.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 15: Who is a God in helpless faith?
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 12: Of Christ I live there.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 15: In the ground his body laid.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 12: Light of the world by darkness slain.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 6: We'll be right back. Great is thy name.