Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Daniel Knight about his choice of Rosa

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Talks to Daniel Knight about his choice of Rosa · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:01
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt.
• 0:03
  Penknife the Doctor Who commentaries podcast very happy
• 0:08
  with you. Yes, I've been listening to that
• 0:10
  one as well. My name is Daniel, and I'm here
• 0:12
  with Joe. And we are just about to embark
• 0:17
  on one of those whose most important and probably most
• 0:22
  celebrated new series episodes and it's just an absolute gem.
• 0:29
  And it's one that is nestled right at the beginning of the
• 0:34
  Christian era because I think people will probably think
• 0:37
  you're talking about something else where but no, we're talking
• 0:41
  about Roca. Yeah, and okay, well, did you
• 0:46
  say you had a question? Go straight in I did but you
• 0:50
  said you had a question and it's your podcast George.
• 0:52
  What's your question first? Ah well, okay, so this story is
• 0:57
  all about racism. Which is a really hard-hitting
• 1:01
  topic and it got me to thinking about, you know, I'm from a,
• 1:06
  from a minority group which can be looked upon unkindly, but I
• 1:12
  actually have never really experienced anything to the
• 1:16
  level of what you see in this episode.
• 1:19
  Yeah, I think the worst I've ever had was somebody at work
• 1:23
  when they realize I was gay coming at me and going, what I
• 1:26
  wouldn't have thought that of you.
• 1:28
  I was like well duh. Me.
• 1:32
  Yeah. That's that's pretty much the
• 1:34
  worst of what I've experienced Beyond some excessive homophobia
• 1:39
  from my father who I no longer speak to.
• 1:43
  So my but my question was, have you ever experienced any form of
• 1:48
  prejudice in your life? Not set.
• 1:53
  Well no I mean as as a as a as a doctor who fan I got I got the
• 1:59
  Mickey taken out of me as a kid. Yeah.
• 2:03
  And that can be that sort of if you know, in my teenage years,
• 2:09
  you know, we're talking the late 80s.
• 2:11
  So not a period when Doctor Who was the best thing on
• 2:15
  television. This popular thing on
• 2:17
  television. So yeah.
• 2:18
  And also I was, I was skinny I was geeky.
• 2:23
  I was rubbish at sport, so yeah, but not not for being.
• 2:31
  Yeah. For being adults, who found but
• 2:32
  probably for all those other things, as well as a Christian.
• 2:36
  I don't really, I've never really experienced any Eddie
• 2:44
  Absol, prejudice. People have sort of so you were
• 2:48
  go bother or, you know, whatever but not not too, I mean when we,
• 2:52
  when we do things in our village, you know, like the
• 2:54
  vehicle show or these are all, you know, sort of, you know,
• 2:59
  after-school clubs paper. Quite respectful.
• 3:02
  So certainly not to no, not nothing on the level of what you
• 3:08
  said. And also not from from the level
• 3:10
  that that we can see in here in this episode, I my experience Of
• 3:16
  course, I've got some wonderful Christian friends as you can,
• 3:20
  imagine the debates rejean long into the night, and I think the
• 3:25
  worst that my Christian friends of experience has been this
• 3:30
  bizarre expectation to be a better person than the average
• 3:35
  man, which is such a strange thing because I feel like
• 3:39
  everybody should have that expectation heaped upon them,
• 3:41
  you know, to be a good person. But there's like, you know, you
• 3:45
  know, if you don't Fart expectation.
• 3:48
  Well in you know that's absurd. It is yeah I mean no no just
• 3:53
  just because somebody has a faith in Jesus does not mean
• 3:57
  that their Superman or Superwoman and we make I make
• 4:00
  mistakes I you know, I'm not I'm not the perfect person.
• 4:06
  I mean it's interesting that, you know, just had the World Cup
• 4:09
  in Qatar of all places where both lgbtq people and Christians
• 4:15
  face persecution, And and it's to, to actually to, you know, to
• 4:22
  read the Bible in public can actually get you arrested in
• 4:26
  place like guitar as well as well as two as two men or two
• 4:31
  women holding hands or you can do its execution.
• 4:36
  Yeah. Some places.
• 4:37
  I mean absolutely absurd. Yeah yeah well okay so circling
• 4:44
  this background to rosary And I think this is really, really
• 4:51
  important. This episode like you say, to,
• 4:53
  to bring up these issues and to show them as explicitly as it
• 4:58
  does here. Because I think Doctor Who's
• 5:00
  flirted with it in the new series Martha.
• 5:02
  There's a line about Martha's hands in human nature and the
• 5:06
  family of lard. There's a scene in Sarah, Jane
• 5:09
  Adventures, where Ronnie goes back in time and everyone's
• 5:13
  shocked when she walks into this Village fight as As a brown
• 5:17
  skinned person and and things like this, but this is really
• 5:22
  driving. The point home, isn't it of how
• 5:24
  its it doesn't? It doesn't hold back in what
• 5:29
  people of color experience from from that from, you know, from
• 5:34
  the perspective of people being, you know, hurling racial abuse
• 5:37
  out them. And I think that's important, I
• 5:41
  think. I think if it didn't show that
• 5:44
  it wouldn't, it would have been. It would have been a, I was
• 5:48
  going to say a whitewash that sounds terrible, that's not the
• 5:50
  right place, but you know what I mean, it would have it would
• 5:53
  have, it would have been half-hearted and I think, right?
• 5:56
  And I think, you know, it's have Marjorie Blackman come in and
• 5:59
  write this story. I know, she's, I know it's
• 6:01
  co-written with Chris chibnall, but I imagine that the majority
• 6:04
  of the ideas in the plot and everything is hers.
• 6:06
  So she'll have been somebody who has experience these things.
• 6:10
  And, you know, even today, you know, 2022, we are still
• 6:14
  experiments and I think it's getting worse.
• 6:17
  And it's we'd like to think of ourselves.
• 6:20
  We would like to look at this and go.
• 6:22
  Well, things aren't like this anymore, but there's the scene
• 6:24
  that will see we Shows, the sad fact that we haven't really
• 6:28
  moved on at all. I tell you what, when brexit a
• 6:31
  cup. So I promise you the world,
• 6:33
  start watching Rose around. It's so interesting.
• 6:35
  I don't care when breaks it was happening.
• 6:39
  I was absolutely convinced that that would never that the vote
• 6:43
  would never be yes to exit the European Union.
• 6:47
  And I always tell the story of that I was putting out the
• 6:50
  papers every single day and I put out the mail and the racism
• 6:56
  that would You from the front cover of the mail every single
• 6:59
  day and how they lend into sort of immigrants coming in taking
• 7:05
  away, your it's absolutely embedded in society, still.
• 7:10
  And oh, absolutely. They whipped up a shitstorm of
• 7:13
  racism during breaks it. And I think that is what and the
• 7:17
  fact that that did get the, yes, vo proves that there is still
• 7:24
  that, that hate exists. Yeah.
• 7:27
  It and you. And it's, it's all its Amplified
• 7:30
  by people like, and Nigel farage, and Tommy Robinson.
• 7:35
  And yeah, Katie Hopkins. All these people who have a
• 7:38
  mouthpiece to spew stuff that isn't true, and a lot of it was
• 7:46
  was built on lies. I know there's, but there's the
• 7:49
  saying not everybody who voted for grexit is racist.
• 7:54
  But everybody who's racist voted for brexit, all because they
• 7:58
  knew what it meant, they knew that.
• 8:00
  If that it wasn't, it wasn't about taking back control.
• 8:05
  It was about making sure that we don't have People coming in this
• 8:09
  country and, you know, taking over and which is which then
• 8:13
  which isn't happening. And in actual fact, since breaks
• 8:17
  it has happened, immigration levels have actually increased,
• 8:20
  they've not gone down. There's lots of situations got
• 8:22
  worse. There is like, well, he's taking
• 8:25
  back, we haven't taken back control, you know.
• 8:28
  Anyway, I am I, I was incredibly ashamed that day.
• 8:33
  I've got a lot of friends that live around the world That live
• 8:38
  in England. So they're come from different
• 8:39
  places. Honestly, I'll be out of step
• 8:41
  with every country. Daniel, it's also a Spur joke in
• 8:44
  there somewhere. Yeah, and you know, like there
• 8:48
  is lots of things for international relations as the
• 8:52
  generation start to die out. The racism that is inherited my
• 8:55
  family and starting to disappear as well.
• 8:58
  But that that's something I've been aware of as well, which is
• 9:02
  really appalled me. Yeah, it's, it's a troubling
• 9:07
  situation. In, it's not really getting
• 9:08
  better but what what are things very responsible about Rosa is
• 9:14
  it doesn't try and just say this is a problem in the past, no it
• 9:19
  acknowledges, it's a problem in the present and it will still be
• 9:22
  a problem in the future and doesn't like say two children.
• 9:26
  This thing is going away. Let us says actually we can be
• 9:30
  better than this. Yeah absolutely what's your
• 9:34
  question it Okay. My question is very and it's
• 9:38
  sort of a similar, which is, is this the Locust episode of
• 9:41
  Doctor Who ever? No, that's practice Alias.
• 9:46
  Obviously you got the multiracial cast.
• 9:49
  You've got multi multi sexuality cars.
• 9:53
  It's got an environmental message.
• 9:55
  I mean, I knew that sorry. But no, I so I think this is a
• 10:02
  good thing for the things. It's spraying a gay
• 10:05
  relationship. Your ship is creating
• 10:09
  interesting environmentalism. It's doing very, very
• 10:12
  interesting, things of all of those, but yeah, this is
• 10:15
  incredibly woke. I think all ssibly chibnall was
• 10:21
  very Savvy in casting mixed-raced regulars and in,
• 10:28
  that was kind of deliberate. So this story could be told ya.
• 10:34
  And in this day and age, you know, we shouldn't have, you
• 10:38
  know, the cast list that we had in the Hinchcliffe irra where
• 10:41
  everyone is white and everyone Ismail as well admit it.
• 10:47
  But I remember when I was watching the power of the
• 10:51
  doctrine there's one scene in the Tardis and you've got you
• 10:56
  had Kate, you had I don't know. Taken.
• 11:04
  You had a case yet vendor and had Kate.
• 11:07
  So there's there's two women who are mature, age one, Asian
• 11:13
  woman, one black man and one lady middle.
• 11:17
  How old I don't know how. Oh, Kate Stewart is how old.
• 11:20
  So yeah, she sort of lovely spray.
• 11:24
  Yeah. And you wouldn't and I'm
• 11:27
  thinking this is amazing. There aren't that many shows
• 11:29
  that you would probably get this this mixture of Of cast.
• 11:34
  I mean, I when I, when I was approached about, is this, the
• 11:37
  work is I'm using work in its correct term.
• 11:39
  I'm not, I don't think woke as being something that is is
• 11:42
  wrong. If you look at it and determine
• 11:44
  woke should be celebrated. I do.
• 11:45
  Yeah, it's about. It's about being aware of social
• 11:49
  injustice, like racism, those idiotic, you know, fuckwits on
• 11:54
  YouTube, those are memebers. The literally slag off every new
• 12:00
  thing that's coming out because they don't have an ounce of joy
• 12:02
  in there. Lives.
• 12:04
  Have weaponized the word. What?
• 12:05
  Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
• 12:07
  I would it was on now. I don't watch GB news, but
• 12:09
  somebody put a link on that there was a something that they
• 12:15
  got Jim Davidson to come on and say about.
• 12:18
  And the question was now that David Tennant is back in Doctor
• 12:21
  Who will dock to be less woke? I wanted to have a lot of, I
• 12:26
  mean, it's the only thing that I've ever laughed at the Jim
• 12:27
  Davis has been involved with, but I had it was just really do,
• 12:32
  they not know who, you know, David Tennant but that famous,
• 12:37
  you know, Tori voting. Oh, hang on.
• 12:38
  No, it's been written by Russell T, bloody Davis.
• 12:42
  Yes. Yeah.
• 12:44
  They seen what he's brought out? And absolutely yeah.
• 12:48
  Oh my God. And now, even even better is
• 12:52
  that He knows what you can get away with.
• 12:55
  Now, like, back in 2005. I think he was pretty careful
• 12:59
  about what I put on the screen. Hmm.
• 13:01
  So not to get the show cancel. Anything like that, or to?
• 13:03
  Yeah, absolutely. I spoke too much.
• 13:06
  But nowadays, it and you do, we do going to press play on this?
• 13:10
  Yes, honestly, we've had 15 minutes of riveting conversation
• 13:14
  already. Hmm.
• 13:16
  Well, it was you guys count as in?
• 13:18
  Okay? As I walk.
• 13:20
  Great. Great discussion.
• 13:23
  Okay here we go. 5 4 3 2 1. Go.
• 13:31
  It's time for the great oily, puddle of the Jodie.
• 13:34
  Whittaker title sequence. In this episode there are
• 13:42
  familiar. Prejudice Prejudice has to face
• 13:44
  for the doctors friends. I know she's sad.
• 13:47
  What was that all about? Was that in was that saw like a
• 13:52
  radio Times building. I'm not sure, I'm not sure.
• 13:58
  Here comes the kick comes. The hula.
• 13:59
  Hoop walked under eyes is the only episode he directed I don't
• 14:08
  know. Did he also do demons of the
• 14:10
  Punjab? Because this was filmed in South
• 14:14
  Africa, wasn't it? He did know.
• 14:16
  You're right. And I'll tell you what, those
• 14:17
  are, the two, I think they're the best directed Two episodes
• 14:21
  of this season. Suddenly the most visually
• 14:23
  stunning. Yeah.
• 14:25
  As for I'd have to say that one of the things about the chip
• 14:29
  malaria is. I know we said we take the
• 14:31
  Mickey out, the lens flare but the cinematography has been
• 14:37
  exceptional. Well, you just go and listen to
• 14:39
  Jeff Goddard and me talking about the beautiful imagery of
• 14:42
  the Jody risk. I mean, I I think it was CGI as
• 14:44
  well as been incredible. He's so fabulous weird
• 14:48
  Landscapes that they've created. Okay, so we've got the net
• 14:52
  Robinson here who has been in dogs who before yeah completely
• 14:57
  unrecognizable from this part in 42.
• 15:01
  Now I did ask some people the questions or comments and Dave
• 15:09
  Rennie asked do you think the net Robinson gives the best
• 15:12
  guest star? Performance of the season.
• 15:17
  I mean yes definitely I think I certainly think it's the most
• 15:23
  important guest role the season. I would say it's certainly a tie
• 15:28
  with Alan Cummings in the which finders which is a more
• 15:34
  extravagant performance and and the more showy performance but
• 15:41
  is still A brilliant. Why did you have to bring up
• 15:47
  Alan Cummings and the, which finders I owe you.
• 15:50
  I own my Nubian Prince. Let's punish thing.
• 15:54
  I mean, is he says campus Christmas, but there's a
• 15:57
  Sinister quality to him because I was hoping you could.
• 16:00
  He would you you wouldn't you wouldn't want to cross him with
• 16:03
  you lie and you want to cross this bus driver either?
• 16:07
  This did actually happen. Yeah, it actually happened about
• 16:11
  in about 13 12 13 years before. The yeah.
• 16:18
  Tell ya. 12 years later, it says, the thing that really
• 16:21
  impressed me about Vanessa Robinson in.
• 16:24
  This was like, she's quite, she's quite Stern and she's
• 16:29
  quiet. She's a bit of a bossy boots 0
• 16:32
  times, isn't she with with regulars and stuff?
• 16:35
  But she's always sympathetic. Yes, you know, and she's not
• 16:39
  always always painted as a victim.
• 16:41
  She is a person of moments. Ha, this is softness to her that
• 16:48
  I found really appealing. she's I mean, obviously Rosa Parks is
• 16:57
  a Christian and then someone who shoot and she's even in her In
• 17:04
  this situation, we just saw her. Just then she doesn't lose her
• 17:06
  temper. She's so calm, but she knows
• 17:11
  what she needs to do and I've done a little bit of research
• 17:17
  and there was a there was a quote when she was interviewed.
• 17:19
  She said that, you know, that God gave her the strength to
• 17:22
  stand on that bus and not to give in and not to turn away and
• 17:28
  that's what you know, she would, she would do that.
• 17:31
  And she would Then she would end up being a free woman.
• 17:35
  Which is wonderful and you know strength of Faith, but the fact
• 17:40
  that anybody anybody was ever put in that situation where
• 17:46
  they're segregated, it just doesn't compute in my hands.
• 17:51
  No, yeah, obviously questions in the end.
• 17:56
  God used a simple bus ride to accomplish more than we could
• 17:59
  ever have dreamed. That's what she said at a later
• 18:01
  hour, later. Point that she was interviewed.
• 18:05
  Well, I've I've dug out some facts on Rosa Parks which I'm
• 18:09
  going to drop throughout the episode.
• 18:12
  And did you know that she had a prior encounter with James Blake
• 18:15
  before the very famous encounter.
• 18:18
  All right? Yeah, it's this wasn't
• 18:21
  premeditated and she's quite the saying, I never wanted to be on
• 18:24
  that man's bus. Again after that, I made a point
• 18:27
  of looking who was driving the bus.
• 18:29
  Before I got on, I didn't want any more run-ins with that mean
• 18:32
  one. Yeah, so they had history.
• 18:35
  Mmm. Oh, this secret scalable where
• 18:38
  science horrible and you know what?
• 18:42
  I think there is some very showy Direction in this.
• 18:45
  There's some very, it's really stylistic, a lot of shots,
• 18:49
  you're going to be like a lot crane shots coming because they
• 18:51
  absolutely want to get their money out of the location.
• 18:53
  Yeah. But that's that very judicious
• 18:57
  use of slow motion when he got hit there.
• 19:00
  Really drives the whole It's horrible.
• 19:08
  And you know, I felt I felt like I didn't a real sense of like
• 19:14
  impending doom and suspense in this episode and it's entirely
• 19:18
  because they're in this unforgiving place where people
• 19:23
  could turn on them at any time and it isn't Daleks and Cybermen
• 19:28
  and know what this is really about the people that kind of
• 19:30
  live around us now. Yeah, what scares me is this
• 19:35
  could, this could Happened. And it's that same sort of
• 19:40
  impending doom. I feel in Hanoi historical is
• 19:43
  like the massacre and things like that.
• 19:46
  The, you know, in the right situation, when the right people
• 19:50
  are brewed up, when the wrong decisions are made, a lot of
• 19:54
  people could be killed. I think this is deliberately
• 19:57
  trying to evoke oh, absolutely. One of the things that I, that
• 20:01
  struck me, that this is going back to the, to, the Core.
• 20:06
  You know, the original premise of the show back in the 1960s
• 20:10
  that this is history and it you know the history history is no
• 20:17
  going in the past is is as alien as skaro or Mariners.
• 20:22
  You go to you know you know you visit the Aztecs and you know
• 20:27
  they do things that you are absolutely horrified of, you
• 20:31
  know you find it absolutely repugnant.
• 20:34
  It reminds me of my always cite the film, 28 Days Later, you
• 20:39
  know, the one where London's, devastated by the zombies, and
• 20:42
  like the zombies are supposed to be the horror in the film.
• 20:45
  And then the true horror turns out to be.
• 20:47
  The humans are left behind that are behaving in a way.
• 20:51
  So, appalling lie so base. And yeah, I think I think when
• 20:57
  it's human beings creating the atrocities.
• 21:00
  That's just so much scarier that.
• 21:02
  What are you? Stir.
• 21:04
  That's why midnight is his absolutely terrifying.
• 21:07
  It's you're not just scared of whatever it is out there.
• 21:11
  Outside the bus, you're scared of what those people inside the
• 21:16
  bus is going to do to the doctor.
• 21:18
  It's nothing to evil old Lindsay.
• 21:20
  Coulson saying to her husband what sort of a man are you you
• 21:23
  know, kill him, kill him. And that's the thing about this
• 21:27
  story though is there and those hard on historicals and midnight
• 21:30
  is that sort of universal themes that doesn't really Need a no.
• 21:36
  She's really, really delicious. I'm Outsider we just had cross
• 21:42
  carry on the screen now, we do this, talk about him and whether
• 21:45
  he is essential in this story. Yes.
• 21:47
  So we need to talk about just how incredibly hot is to.
• 21:52
  One of the most was is he Izzy of importance or is it just
• 21:55
  there to give a Joe a bit of eye candy?
• 21:58
  Who said that? No, I said that.
• 22:00
  I don't know. I think, I think obviously you
• 22:06
  don't really have a story if If we know you do but I don't think
• 22:10
  there's much to hang on of just Rosa getting on the bus.
• 22:13
  Know you do need that extra level of Jeopardy that that will
• 22:19
  you know those those barriers that will stop What needs to
• 22:23
  happen from happening. It's like it's a bit you know
• 22:27
  he's the he's the girder that comes across the Tardis in Dalek
• 22:31
  invasion of Earth. He's the, you know, whatever the
• 22:35
  lock being taken out the Tardis by the sensor rights or, you
• 22:39
  know, the Tardis falling down the hole, you know, in the in
• 22:42
  The Impossible Planet. It's, you know what else he did?
• 22:45
  He's an irritant rather than a than a than an out-and-out body.
• 22:50
  And as well as like I said earlier, showing that, you know,
• 22:54
  racism is still Rife in the future and it is a problem that,
• 22:59
  you know, needs to be combated. It belies that point that people
• 23:05
  make all the time about the Jodi whiskey era is season 11, series
• 23:09
  11, sorry, that really irritates me.
• 23:12
  There's say, oh, she never got her, you know, dr.
• 23:15
  Moment how dr. Ish moment, which is supposed to
• 23:17
  be, you know, those bits where the doctor put, Huff's out the
• 23:20
  chest and goes into. I Am the Doctor from the planet,
• 23:23
  Gallifrey in the constellation of kasterborous and all that
• 23:26
  bollocks or Capaldi in Flatline ways like I'm a doctor, I named
• 23:32
  you the Boneless. Well, I'll tell you what, she
• 23:35
  gets a moment with crafts go in a minute where she's standing on
• 23:38
  top of that Silo. Yeah and another criticism is
• 23:41
  made is that she doesn't confront the villains and she
• 23:43
  says that's nonsense as well. He goes don't threaten me and
• 23:47
  then she walks away from him and he has to go.
• 23:49
  So we leave. Even as she goes, nine million
• 23:52
  years faces like the messy, a hairs all over.
• 23:55
  If she is brilliant in that scene.
• 23:59
  Would it have worked better if say for example in the when in
• 24:04
  the second time when when the doctor confirms kraskow, maybe
• 24:08
  she would have sought. No knocked his face off in it
• 24:11
  and there's an alien underneath. Would that have satisfied,
• 24:14
  satisfied people? I don't think it would.
• 24:16
  I don't think I would have made an iota of difference, but would
• 24:18
  that have satisfied people who are kind of thinking, he's not
• 24:22
  of an effective enough filling. We're, he's in a, he's a villain
• 24:26
  because he's a racist. But Yeah you and me in the
• 24:36
  future. Oh yeah, this thing hasn't gone
• 24:38
  away and that's scary. You know if you need if you need
• 24:42
  that to be a monster from the planet Zog.
• 24:45
  Yeah, you're kind of missing the point.
• 24:47
  Exactly? Yeah, I'll see, you know, a
• 24:50
  monster for the planet Zog wouldn't be smoking.
• 24:52
  Hot Cresco. I buy.
• 24:53
  So sorry. So you've got a hot doctor now.
• 24:57
  All right, let me have a hot dog.
• 24:59
  Okay, fair enough. And a hook companion, as well as
• 25:05
  talking about, confronting the villain.
• 25:06
  There's that astonishes equals in this we don't get many acts
• 25:12
  of physical violence, no, at Jodie, Whittaker.
• 25:15
  And there's a bit where he grabs are thrown by the throat.
• 25:18
  Yeah. My and that's something that
• 25:22
  bothers me somewhat. In the it's, well, I can't
• 25:30
  remember shit, but we'll talk about it when the scene happens,
• 25:33
  because it does look like she's a little bit defenseless and I
• 25:36
  kind of think hang on come on, you're only but you're the same
• 25:40
  doctor that did the old Venetian Aikido could you not just, you
• 25:43
  know, give them a bit of a. Can I ask you a question on?
• 25:46
  This isn't me. Trying to put you into a trap,
• 25:48
  right? Okay.
• 25:50
  Would that be a problem if it was a man?
• 25:57
  No, no a night. That's this is, this is the
• 25:59
  thing that that's, that's I don't like violence against
• 26:04
  women. I find that very, I find it very
• 26:07
  uncomfortable to watch. I know I violence against women.
• 26:11
  Obviously, I don't like violence against men either.
• 26:14
  No, I'm not a violent man, but I do think, I do, I don't think
• 26:21
  there should be double standards with this thing.
• 26:22
  So, I like that scene because she's being drawled, but because
• 26:26
  she stands up to him, and she pushes him off, and she like,
• 26:30
  she has agency in that moment. Yeah, and it's just really nice
• 26:35
  because I often feel like Jodie Whittaker was written, like,
• 26:39
  Jodie Whittaker is capable of reaching 11.
• 26:42
  Yeah, often very often. She's written at somewhere about
• 26:46
  six or seven occasionally eight or nine.
• 26:49
  Well, in that moment she's a 10 it's really intense that same
• 26:54
  and here we go. Well with she's now you're being
• 26:58
  annoying. If you look at her.
• 27:02
  Face when she walks off in a second.
• 27:04
  Yeah, hist I just think there are some really seminal Jody
• 27:10
  musical which moments in this? I think take another bit where
• 27:13
  she goes. I'm Banker.
• 27:16
  See it. Or am I?
• 27:22
  She goes, but I think it's got the most one of the most
• 27:28
  important moments as well at the climax when she's on the bus and
• 27:34
  she has to be a passive Observer.
• 27:36
  Yeah. Rific that is occurring and much
• 27:41
  of the criticism of Jodi whiskers doctor is is that she
• 27:45
  sits back and lets pitner the villains walk away and you know
• 27:50
  no one really They come up with doesn't cause the solution.
• 27:52
  Again, I would argue that point. Yeah, I don't buy that but I do
• 27:57
  think is really effective here. That's a, that's a staggeringly
• 28:02
  dramatic moment where the doctor literally cannot do anything to
• 28:07
  stop that racism because she'll change history.
• 28:10
  If that happens, it's a horrible situation to put her in and
• 28:14
  break down to put to programming as well.
• 28:17
  It's his reaction that kills with his, I mean, Now, I want to
• 28:25
  talk a little bit about Bradley Walsh.
• 28:27
  How are ya? Because I mean, when he was
• 28:31
  cast, I knew he was going to be good, but I didn't realize it
• 28:34
  was going to be so good as he is.
• 28:37
  And I think he's, I think he gets to be to get, he gets a lot
• 28:43
  more in serious 11, then he doesn't serious 12, where he
• 28:46
  kind of sort of is a little bit reduced to the comedy, the Buddy
• 28:51
  fade. But in this series, he's such,
• 28:55
  he's so strong. But then that's the issue about
• 28:59
  having three companions having for regular characters which we
• 29:02
  know if we look through the history of the show can
• 29:06
  sometimes be a bit of an issue. So for example, you've got
• 29:11
  Fraser Hines you do you got the moon base?
• 29:13
  Where Jamie goes, oh it's the Phantom Piper and then you've
• 29:18
  got, you know, disappear mr. Appearing in Kinder for two
• 29:22
  episodes. So she can have a good snooze
• 29:24
  after collapsing at the end of four to Doomsday.
• 29:28
  She ain't even built that. Vibrator in our bedroom.
• 29:30
  Yeah, she that's in the next story that's in the next story.
• 29:32
  Well, yeah, let's not go there. Least she keeps all her clothes
• 29:37
  are clothes on in that series. That's true.
• 29:44
  But I think this in this one everyone gets a fair share of
• 29:48
  the pie. Everyone gets a really Good.
• 29:52
  Everyone gets to have their own part and they're very much
• 29:56
  integral. In the plot of the story even
• 30:01
  even yeas, who tends to be the one who in is kind of like the
• 30:06
  nicer in this group, she does tend to be sometimes sidelined a
• 30:09
  little bit. I think, even in Demons of the
• 30:12
  Punjab, she kind of doesn't really get to do as much as Ryan
• 30:16
  or Graeme seen Graham seen to do.
• 30:18
  And then when we get her in flux, She then has to, she's got
• 30:22
  a job Bishop to spar with which I think those two are absolutely
• 30:26
  wonderful together. So many faults that everything
• 30:29
  that you just said, you know. So once in my life, I stayed
• 30:32
  quiet and wait because I kind of agree with you and I kind of
• 30:38
  disagree with you as well. Okay, review that they struggle
• 30:41
  with the free Companions and are again.
• 30:43
  Dear TT, spy for resolution, they get it bang-on and everyone
• 30:48
  nice of the pie. That is unfortunate that someone
• 30:52
  generally is shunted off. I mean, I think everyone always
• 30:55
  gets a moment in the episode. Yes.
• 30:57
  Yeah. I'll actually obscenely.
• 31:00
  I don't think we ever get a specific like Graham episode or
• 31:06
  you get the ride episode. I think is resolution but you
• 31:09
  don't get it. And if so that is purely about
• 31:12
  Graham which is a shame because Bradley, not really good.
• 31:16
  Yeah, I think he's actually pretty strong in serious.
• 31:21
  Well, I don't think he's always given enough to do no, but like
• 31:25
  in practice, ASU has that wonderful scene with Jake on the
• 31:27
  beach in Ascension of the Cybermen, he gets that wonderful
• 31:32
  scene with Yaz where he sounds around.
• 31:34
  Yeah, yeah. In, can you hear me?
• 31:36
  Obviously, he's going for his cancer, really quite strong.
• 31:42
  And like, yeah, there's a lot of comedy with him in series 12,
• 31:46
  but it's Bradley Walsh like either.
• 31:49
  I'm not saying he gives a bad performance, he's brilliant.
• 31:51
  Every episode but sometimes just felt blankety-blank its absolute
• 31:56
  gold. I'll tell you is there at every
• 31:58
  time someone gives an answer he throws.
• 32:00
  The card goes right? That's it.
• 32:01
  I'm off. I'm not doing this anymore, it's
• 32:03
  so funny but you're right there. This, this really exemplifies
• 32:09
  this Ensemble as strongest doesn't think.
• 32:12
  So, definitely definitely seen here.
• 32:17
  This seem like he's really sinister It comes it and the way
• 32:22
  it short when he when they open the door and he's just like a
• 32:25
  shadow on the wall. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:29
  And the way the sort of the doctor has to lie about who she
• 32:32
  is, then to hide outside by the bins.
• 32:36
  Yeah. There's just a disquieting very
• 32:40
  dark. Yeah.
• 32:42
  Even with the lights on, you can see in the wall, the lights are
• 32:44
  on, but it's still quite dark and very Sinister, the guy who
• 32:48
  plays the policemen have Have you seen bugs but boxes?
• 32:55
  My bag baby. Boggs was my 90's.
• 32:57
  Doctor, Who in there's a recurring character, I think the
• 33:01
  name is John Danielle, something Jean that's never gone down yet.
• 33:06
  Yes. But the keyboard at the end I'll
• 33:11
  get you next time. Is it really?
• 33:14
  Yeah. No idea.
• 33:18
  And from that fabulous, J Griffin.
• 33:21
  Griffith. Yeah, Levi.
• 33:22
  When they brought into uni, I thought finally J Griffith.
• 33:25
  Getting regular roll bumper off. Yeah, don't get me started.
• 33:31
  I'm not so keen on this log on Invasion.
• 33:32
  Inversion. Okay, okay, I'm not so keen on
• 33:36
  that series. I face spoke volumes there.
• 33:39
  I call it the contractual obligation season, which I think
• 33:44
  is maybe we should do a story from That season, you know.
• 33:48
  Okay, it's something. It's maybe we should do one that
• 33:50
  you're not so keen on. Oh spoilt for Choice.
• 33:54
  Then this same with him sitting outside where she's about how
• 34:04
  she's called a yeah. This is, this is proper.
• 34:10
  This is a sort of drama. I figured chip.
• 34:12
  No was going to bring so it's understated.
• 34:16
  And a lot of drama you bring stuff to is.
• 34:18
  It's quite subtle. But that's a hard-hitting
• 34:22
  insult. Will she just said, they're
• 34:24
  using the p word. It's, I'm not, you know, as
• 34:28
  kids, we would say it. We, you know, back in the 1980s
• 34:31
  and I'm, you know, ashamed of I hear it because I could hear my
• 34:35
  dad. So yeah.
• 34:37
  Yeah, which I think is probably quite a healthy reaction.
• 34:43
  Yeah, I think it shows even if I world hasn't changed.
• 34:47
  But, I mean, it talks about, you know, in 50 years they have a
• 34:53
  black, black black president. But then the curly replacing
• 34:56
  with yeah. July.
• 34:58
  I immediately. What I thought when they were
• 35:00
  saying that I've learned, I was like, yes.
• 35:02
  Progressive amazing. And yeah, look what came next
• 35:06
  and then you go back, 30. Years.
• 35:09
  Mitch. I think.
• 35:11
  Yeah, he's as much to blame for a lot of, oh yeah, lots of a lot
• 35:17
  of us. Anyway, yeah, I mentioned
• 35:25
  second, a kind of score in this, which I thought, I just think in
• 35:29
  production terms. This was like, extremely good
• 35:34
  and everyone's firing on all cylinders is a, but the score is
• 35:38
  pit. Now where they're doing.
• 35:40
  They've all got a job to do and that means it's like going
• 35:43
  dududududu. It's it's like it's like it's
• 35:48
  like these different different parts and they're all working
• 35:54
  together. I love the fact that we're all
• 35:55
  working together and not one of them is sort of being, I mean,
• 36:01
  the doctors obviously in charge, but she's not, I'm a doctor and
• 36:04
  I'm in charge. She's like, she's She's
• 36:09
  empowering them, she's empowering all three of them to
• 36:11
  go off. And this is what we need to do
• 36:14
  to keep history on its tracks. She's got a phantom, hasn't she
• 36:18
  and you know, by whenever I hear people weaponizing know, the
• 36:21
  fireman, or it's not like, well, I've got my ham fam.
• 36:25
  All right, so I can say, I were, it goes back again.
• 36:30
  It goes back to the to the very first series with William
• 36:34
  Hartnell. If you watch those episodes that
• 36:37
  serious has four, Eats it's not William Hartnell and William
• 36:42
  Russell, Jaclyn Hill and Carolyn Ford.
• 36:44
  In lesser roles, they are all four of them.
• 36:47
  All four characters are of equal importance, possibly Carol Anne
• 36:51
  Ford's character. I mean Susan is a little bit of
• 36:53
  a. Well, she's very wet sometimes
• 36:56
  but sometimes sometimes not in a sensor rights.
• 37:02
  If you watch during the sensor rides in those two episodes
• 37:04
  where, I mean obviously they have to put Jacqueline.
• 37:07
  I'm here Jaclyn Hill on Today to give Susan a bit more of a net
• 37:11
  and, you know, a agency in a bit more, a bit, more of a backbone,
• 37:16
  so she actually can get off and, you know, and do things.
• 37:19
  And she's actually quite and you can see Carolyn Ford actually
• 37:24
  enjoying being a bit more. Proactive, and not just the
• 37:29
  Wimpy wailing. Oh, no.
• 37:32
  What's going on Doctor? Grandfather grandfather.
• 37:35
  Anyway, we're not here to talk about that.
• 37:37
  She does to our Lord. If a player agonizing sometimes.
• 37:42
  And that's, and that's where you get Vicki in the next season and
• 37:46
  she's like a breath of fresh air.
• 37:48
  I've had a lot of people say that's me on this recently, I
• 37:50
  think they will be watching that season 2 Blu-ray.
• 37:55
  Yeah, but you're right. I think they definitely are
• 37:59
  leaning into. This is definitely got like a
• 38:01
  season one of the classic series vibe to it.
• 38:05
  I mean it's got ya production values of a movie which is the
• 38:09
  biggest difference to Barn. Yeah the for regulars, the
• 38:14
  slightly more simplistic storytelling their focus on
• 38:18
  character but it not being. Yes, the very sort of showy
• 38:24
  carrots work. That we've had during Rusty
• 38:25
  Davis and as dean of office time.
• 38:29
  Yeah. But you know, I feel like we've
• 38:31
  Rosa and demons of the Punjab. There's a confidence to those
• 38:37
  two episodes and I think there is a bit of a tentative nature
• 38:41
  to some of season 11 where they're sort of trying to find
• 38:44
  their feet a little bit, but they just seem on such short
• 38:47
  rounds in those two episodes. Yeah I think I think you're
• 38:51
  right. There's some episodes where it's
• 38:56
  You probably, you probably would be re watching them in thinking
• 38:59
  maybe the script needs another draft or maybe just needs a bit
• 39:02
  more of a, you know, there are some episodes where you think
• 39:06
  this is good but it could be so much better.
• 39:09
  Don't you? Come around, is in the UK Danny
• 39:10
  and I are right, or you may gonna have words, I'm not I
• 39:14
  never mentioned arachnids in the UK story so much.
• 39:17
  It's a great story, it's terrible but I love it.
• 39:22
  And you got shot, the glass in it as well and she's brilliant
• 39:25
  beautiful. Well yeah, I wish I was a shame
• 39:29
  that she wasn't in power of the doctor would have been nice to
• 39:31
  see a comeback. Yeah.
• 39:33
  Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 39:35
  Drop her family. Don't they, they do.
• 39:37
  Yeah. A bit of a shame.
• 39:39
  I thought we were really gonna start leading into that again.
• 39:42
  And well, we got Rusty Davis back.
• 39:44
  Now, they probably will. All this is really sweet, that
• 39:48
  that Ryan gets close to Rosa Parks now, and then goes to me.
• 39:52
  Martin Luther King as Imax Cinema.
• 39:54
  Yeah. Like that.
• 39:57
  That the other thing that makes us feel like serious one is,
• 39:59
  they are really trying to educate you.
• 40:02
  Yes, as well. There there is.
• 40:04
  They've pushed a fair few facts on you and I know I know that's
• 40:10
  that's what some people dislike about it and it's like they feel
• 40:14
  like they're being lectured to and old and that's where the
• 40:17
  woke aspect comes into it. Did you?
• 40:21
  Here's a question, I wanted. Will you talk about Rosa Parks
• 40:24
  at School? No, no, neither was I Since I'm
• 40:29
  on a mission. Yes, I think the history and I
• 40:33
  was recent history but the history we studied it was all
• 40:35
  sort of the big stuff, you know, second world war to the Romans.
• 40:41
  I mean, I'm pleased to say when I go into schools now for my
• 40:45
  job, there are pieces of Rosa Parks there are classes or
• 40:50
  School houses that are named after Rosa Parks.
• 40:54
  So she's very much now in the consciousness.
• 40:56
  Of children growing up. But it again, with Mary Seacole
• 41:03
  who she would, you know, the in war, the sontarans, I didn't
• 41:06
  know about Mary Seacole growing up either and there was I did a
• 41:10
  bit of so looking at that and that there was there did seem to
• 41:13
  be sort of like a suppressing of who she was and what she is and
• 41:18
  what she did surprised. If there was a general mission
• 41:23
  of these sort of strong women throughout history are I think
• 41:27
  the education service for a long time was being run by men.
• 41:30
  Oh, very much so yeah. Yeah.
• 41:35
  And white man as well. And it's probably say, it's not.
• 41:41
  It's not happening anymore. Ada Lovelace in life.
• 41:45
  All you've got. Oh, good grief.
• 41:48
  I got their names. Just got.
• 41:49
  Mary Shelley in haunting a victory at our fee.
• 41:52
  There is such a focus on strong women throughout history in this
• 41:56
  area. Sarah and boy, is that another
• 41:58
  gold badge for the chip New Era? It is.
• 42:00
  Yeah, I think. Oh what was the lady's?
• 42:03
  Not. Yeah because I'm not in
• 42:07
  apologize if I'm pronouncing this incorrectly nor any act can
• 42:11
  who's also in spiteful part 2 - she has a horrible death in the
• 42:19
  next year in the episode. You know, we've got think of the
• 42:23
  kid here is then you would you mind if I got a bit of a rant
• 42:25
  for a second? Go for it.
• 42:27
  Well it's a good episode to go on a run.
• 42:29
  Okay. Special.
• 42:31
  Welcome to hang on. Oh yeah.
• 42:37
  But she does, she does throw him off.
• 42:39
  It's that. She's if you think about it,
• 42:41
  she's in total control. He's got his hand around her
• 42:44
  know that her throat, but she knows.
• 42:47
  He can't kill her. He she knows she's at, she is
• 42:51
  actually in control because he's got this, whatever it is that
• 42:54
  the the chip in it will stop him from killing her.
• 42:57
  I mean, I rather think that in order to show such sort of
• 43:01
  visceral moment of violence towards the first doctor, you
• 43:05
  need a narrative excuse. Like she's trying to prove that
• 43:08
  he can't hurt anybody because that should be it.
• 43:11
  So they've kind of, it does have a like, a plot purpose as well
• 43:15
  as yeah. So again, you go back about, you
• 43:19
  know, her not having agency and not confronting the villains.
• 43:23
  Okay, here, it looks like he's got a, he's got, he's got her to
• 43:27
  a disadvantage but as fat, no, she hasn't has.
• 43:30
  She has she she hasn't done any way ya.
• 43:33
  You were gonna have around. Sorry.
• 43:34
  Oh yeah, I was yeah. Well, we pisses me off, right?
• 43:38
  But people brandished that word woke and say, well, you know,
• 43:44
  the they're shoving. This Mental message in our face
• 43:47
  and racism and lesbians and, you know, gay romance and blah,
• 43:52
  blah, blah, and I hate to say it but these things are out there.
• 43:59
  The one of the planet is in danger, there is racism racism,
• 44:04
  inherent in society. Now, you people exist like this,
• 44:10
  he should just naturally be part of this show and I do wonder
• 44:15
  sometimes if If the people that shout, the loudest are the ones
• 44:19
  that turn their ears. So environmental problems.
• 44:22
  That find looking at gay romance a bit discomforting that perhaps
• 44:28
  possibly have racist. Leanings.
• 44:30
  Like the fact that these episodes are holding up a mirror
• 44:34
  and saying, you know, are you capable of these things?
• 44:38
  It might make people a little bit uncomfortable and I think
• 44:42
  that's that's what dr. Who and what all the drama
• 44:45
  should do. To write it shouldn't just be,
• 44:48
  you know, zambo does I'll be no you know or you know you know.
• 44:55
  Yeah I know I think and I love the fact that we get, we don't
• 44:59
  just get one that. You know, this is the
• 45:02
  traditional celebrity historical.
• 45:04
  That's normally the second or third episode of the season and
• 45:08
  we get to two historical characters for the price of one.
• 45:12
  We get Martin Luther King and it's just, it's a really good
• 45:15
  moment for Ryan. But he gets to me, Martin Luther
• 45:18
  King and and we get that little flashback, you know, you know,
• 45:22
  call back to his G. All I love about this is the
• 45:26
  sort of the it's quite a gentle story as in its not got lots of
• 45:32
  violence set pieces and things like that.
• 45:35
  It's a quite a simple thing that they've got to try and solve
• 45:39
  they get on that bus. So, this thing's happens.
• 45:42
  So, you know, if she makes her mark on history, but actually
• 45:49
  the ramifications of it doesn't happen are quite big.
• 45:51
  Yes. Yeah.
• 45:55
  It's the the steaks look, small, but it is really.
• 45:59
  Yeah, this if this doesn't happen, this this changes
• 46:03
  history completely I can't look at a Scott said, Bradley wash
• 46:10
  got such an expressive face, you know, from smile to a to.
• 46:14
  That little little moment of almost despondency is like
• 46:18
  thinking, oh and he realizes. Yeah, this is.
• 46:21
  This is really. Yeah, it's just pretty mm, Tara.
• 46:24
  He steals the best scene in every episode.
• 46:27
  My personal favorite former Jodie Whittaker is demons from
• 46:30
  the Punjab. I think it's a stunning piece of
• 46:32
  work. It moves me to tears.
• 46:33
  Every time I watch it and he gets out scene where just before
• 46:37
  Young fella gets married, Reed and Bradley Walsh's.
• 46:40
  They're holding back tears because he knows he's going to
• 46:42
  die that day. Yeah I got a, let him die and go
• 46:46
  after the happiest day and it's all there in Bradley.
• 46:49
  Walsh has made this up so don't even about you.
• 46:51
  And you're literally pulling the rug out from everybody.
• 46:55
  It, he is incredible, like, I don't know, it's the, it's the
• 47:01
  Catherine Tate effect, isn't it? It's like you think somebody is
• 47:05
  pigeonholed into a certain genre television, they come on.
• 47:08
  Doctor Who and blow your socks off with the dramatic acting
• 47:11
  they can do anytime. Now that an actor is announced
• 47:16
  as being in Doctor Who I'm going, great can't wait to see
• 47:19
  them because I made the mistake. When Billy I think I mentioned
• 47:23
  this when we talked about knew you was gonna send you one new
• 47:26
  Earth about I was sort of slightly concerned about Billie,
• 47:28
  Piper being cast and she absolutely absolutely love but
• 47:32
  love Billie Piper. So whenever you know if
• 47:34
  Catherine Tate announced Bradley Walsh John, Bishop ticket.
• 47:38
  Actors who are, you know, associative comedy.
• 47:41
  If you look throughout the history of Doctor, Who lots of
• 47:44
  actors who have a comedy background, William Hartnell, I
• 47:48
  was very much Jon Pertwee. Very much, Peter Davison.
• 47:51
  I mean, before we all remember him for all creatures, great and
• 47:54
  small but around the time of dr. Who is do it?
• 47:58
  He was famous for doing to sitcoms either one called sink
• 48:00
  or swim and one called holding the fall.
• 48:02
  So he was quite a quite well known for comedy as well.
• 48:06
  Yeah. There is to Blu-ray.
• 48:09
  Yeah, the more I watch, William Hartnell, the more I am
• 48:13
  impressed with him and I think maybe when I was younger, I
• 48:16
  wrote him off a little bit. And now you did some way
• 48:18
  somewhere in lot more, talk through the energy and the charm
• 48:22
  and the humor and the personality, that he brings when
• 48:26
  he's on the screen. I'm, I can't look at anyone
• 48:28
  else. No, because he's always doing
• 48:30
  something quirky or laughing his head off or you know, delivering
• 48:33
  a line, you know, kill near. Oh I beg your pardon, you know,
• 48:37
  like he's just Breathe, where are the generation that grew up
• 48:40
  watching him or watching his character being recreated in
• 48:45
  show, start five, doctors where he's the grumpy one where he's
• 48:49
  remembered as being the grumpy one but that's that's not the
• 48:52
  case. There's so much of all the
• 48:55
  doctors certainly of all the Classic dr.
• 48:57
  This he's the one carat. He's the one doctor that goes on
• 48:59
  a character Arc. He's the one he softens.
• 49:02
  He's the you know when we see him in an earth child he's the
• 49:05
  Sinister untrustworthy. The time, you know, we don't
• 49:10
  know who this guy is. And then by the time we get to,
• 49:13
  you know, the end of that first season, with reign of terror, he
• 49:17
  show it. You know, he's showing comedy,
• 49:18
  he's just absolutely wonderful. I mean, even sort of halfway
• 49:22
  through, when you, when you watch him and also, you watch
• 49:25
  him a Jaclyn Hill, the two of them bounce off together.
• 49:28
  So, well, they are so brilliant together.
• 49:30
  What's that? Awful noise.
• 49:31
  That's no way to talk about my singing.
• 49:34
  I could charm the birds from the trees they lady.
• 49:38
  But you know, I actually think Jody which case Doctor goes on.
• 49:41
  It's a lot kind of subtler are. Yes, she kind of she comes fully
• 49:46
  formed and she immediately has a great rapport with her friends
• 49:51
  and then in the second series with the destruction of
• 49:53
  Gallifrey and The Time Machine, they try and break her spirit
• 49:56
  that night - try and bring her down and she has a few moments
• 50:00
  where she's lie on the console and she's considering all of her
• 50:03
  life choices. Yeah, she has a few silent
• 50:05
  moments of consideration and then In flux.
• 50:08
  She's just like that, fuck it. I'm amazing.
• 50:12
  I've got amazing. Friends are going to get out in
• 50:14
  the universe, and have some fun again.
• 50:16
  And, and then the sort of conclusion that they come to
• 50:18
  empower. The doctor is, is she's just a
• 50:21
  very nice person and the strength of her is, her friends
• 50:26
  around her. I just thought it was a great
• 50:28
  way to leave her character. I love the fact that she is. the
• 50:34
  first doctor, certainly in the new series, That is just a
• 50:39
  traveler in time. She's not the time, lord
• 50:43
  Victorious, she's not this. I am the doctor, and I am that,
• 50:45
  you know, she's, it's, it's, it's, it's going back.
• 50:50
  The characters come back to the very much Basics.
• 50:53
  Again, going back to sort of just being a simple traveler in
• 50:56
  time with great mates, going around the universe, helping
• 51:00
  people being kind And I think there's just such joy in
• 51:06
  Jodie's, performance. Yeah.
• 51:07
  Ice and hope. And she's just whether it's
• 51:11
  whether it's to Rosa Parks, or, to Yaz, or to Dan, or to vinda,
• 51:15
  or whoever she just shows kindness and hope.
• 51:19
  And, and really, if it just what you want the dog to be,
• 51:23
  actually, I kind of got a little bit fed up with, as it's sort of
• 51:27
  the doctor being this Immortal and, you know, prancing around
• 51:31
  the counter Her room going Doctor, Who I think they tried
• 51:36
  which only with car, but there was a long-term plan that they
• 51:39
  know she was going to be this, you know, Immortal God from
• 51:42
  Another Universe. Also allowed the founder of all
• 51:45
  time, all society and the blueprint for regenerate and all
• 51:48
  of this. And then I love it in the
• 51:50
  vanquishes where she's got that watch and she just goes that
• 51:53
  study and it's protein. Well, maybe that's true.
• 52:01
  I'm a good person now and I'm just Yeah, I'm just going to be
• 52:04
  the best person. I can be like a base.
• 52:06
  She gets a laugh. Sometimes that bit in Halloween
• 52:10
  apocalypse where she's going. Well I think I was Scottish when
• 52:13
  I set this up really easy release.
• 52:17
  I love the fact that the first time we see her, she's smiling.
• 52:22
  And then the last time we see that smile, still there.
• 52:25
  It may have the smile may have faded a few times in between,
• 52:29
  but she literally just she she she comes into the show with a
• 52:32
  smile. And she leaves with smart.
• 52:34
  Oh, there's two scenes. There's one in, it, takes you
• 52:37
  away, where she sees the Frog on the chair and some people say
• 52:40
  that scene is terrible, amazing. The fiendish is essentially a
• 52:44
  universe, that looks like a frog on a chair.
• 52:46
  She blows it a kiss and then goes off, and I'm like, that's a
• 52:48
  doctor right there celebrating a how absurd this thing is.
• 52:53
  And so, it's going to be brilliant.
• 52:54
  And then at the end of paradox of a mirror that with that weird
• 52:57
  jelly fish creature, and the final actually does before she's
• 53:00
  killed is to release it. It and she's like, I don't quite
• 53:04
  understand you, but go out into the universe and be brilliant
• 53:07
  and yeah, she's just wonderful. She's wonderful.
• 53:12
  I just won't hear it. I'm sorry.
• 53:13
  People that say that? She's boring.
• 53:14
  That she ruined Doctor, Who? Absolutely.
• 53:18
  Absolutely. I don't buy it.
• 53:20
  Well, either that or my critical faculties, I've just lost it
• 53:24
  because I loved her. You know what, I've watched my
• 53:28
  fair share of Doctor Who, in fact, I probably watched several
• 53:31
  people's fair share of Doctor Who, and I would I were, I would
• 53:36
  stake not to say today my life, although it's taken too much of
• 53:39
  it but she is one of the one of my favorite doctors.
• 53:43
  I'll feel just imagine myself, I think she's one of and if you if
• 53:47
  you look back and we've said this before, if you look back
• 53:51
  that she's very much a doctor of the old school, just a traveler
• 53:55
  in time and the none of this time lord Victorious, which was
• 53:58
  good at the time, they just gets a bit boring after a while this
• 54:01
  sort of omnipotence. And I'm like I can do this and
• 54:04
  you just want You just want I just want the doctor to go back
• 54:07
  to being. just a traveler in time and you know solving
• 54:13
  solving Mysteries and saving planets and Basically, it is a
• 54:20
  beautiful. Yeah, this is a beautiful scene
• 54:24
  and I think and it and you know, when you did we say about being
• 54:28
  at Robinson, giving the best performance of the of the
• 54:32
  Season. Yeah.
• 54:33
  This is it here. I do like that line delivery of
• 54:37
  your police but the fact they are, she's really shocked that
• 54:42
  she's like a law enforcement officer in the future.
• 54:46
  Here's one, but I don't know, I think Pharrell series 11, which
• 54:49
  comes in for a bit of flak. I think it is being re-evaluated
• 54:52
  quite quickly, actually, but it does come in for a bit of flak.
• 54:57
  No, I mean, look at season 24 at the time, it was absolutely
• 55:00
  slammed by the critics and by the fans, But now, you know,
• 55:06
  it's our Blu-ray and people are absolutely loving it and remote.
• 55:08
  And realizing, you know, on the panto trappings underneath
• 55:14
  those, all those panto trappings, as you couldn't seem
• 55:16
  very dark and adult themes going on, which means pantomime, they
• 55:23
  get after him, you incompetent for you coming now.
• 55:26
  Yes, dr. Cummings tree pants are oh no,
• 55:31
  it isn't. Yeah.
• 55:52
  Well-timed as well. Very well timed.
• 55:54
  I wish I could say, was planned. Oh, somebody else else.
• 55:58
  Who else except had made some comments because there are
• 56:01
  people very kindly Mark. Dodyk says this had such an
• 56:09
  impact on me on first viewing that I haven't been able to
• 56:11
  bring myself to revisit it yet very powerful.
• 56:15
  Wow, if you're listening would thoroughly recommend you watch
• 56:20
  this again because it is you You're absolutely right.
• 56:22
  It is fantastic. We got a few questions in there
• 56:26
  as well. Come on fire.
• 56:27
  Yeah, Into The Ether. Okay.
• 56:33
  Oh, geekier on the inside. Hello.
• 56:36
  I don't know who you are geek. You're on the inside, but thank
• 56:39
  you for your question or your comment, which is, I just love
• 56:42
  it so much. I think it's one of the most
• 56:44
  incredibly done period pieces. The show is ever made period and
• 56:48
  historically accurate and almost every way and gave me that
• 56:51
  classic time, travel Back to the Future type stress, used all the
• 56:54
  Companions brilliantly. And we've just seen Ryan.
• 56:59
  Use the, the weapon class goes weapon on him and our friends.
• 57:03
  Gregory asked, should the doctor have more to say to Ryan about
• 57:06
  him? Using kraske, ozone weapon
• 57:08
  against him, given? How much she kicked off about,
• 57:11
  kicked off about him having it in the first place?
• 57:15
  That's a good point. Yes, he does.
• 57:18
  Occasionally make a good point because God just take a very
• 57:21
  quick. Pause to say, I need to say
• 57:23
  something about Fraser Gregory or I because every time someone
• 57:26
  puts a comment on because he always write a comment.
• 57:28
  When someone says I'm doing a hamster, have a call.
• 57:31
  I always go. Oh God, here we go.
• 57:33
  Contentious old Fraser Gregory Banner.
• 57:36
  Manny's insightful. He is so good at this.
• 57:39
  He is he's had all these doctor opinions bottled up inside of
• 57:43
  him for years and years and years.
• 57:45
  Ears. I was a little nervous getting
• 57:46
  them out initially and now boys flying Fraser.
• 57:50
  You're incredible. Anyway, sorry.
• 57:52
  Absolutely no no Jim. Allenby also asked to be need
• 57:56
  really need the character of kraskow and are we intrigued
• 57:59
  enough to learn a little bit more about him.
• 58:01
  I said, I'd say you're probably intrigued to learn a little bit
• 58:04
  more about him on you, Jay? Well, yes, indeed.
• 58:06
  I would like very much that you have it their way.
• 58:09
  Ryan. Just Zapped him.
• 58:10
  Yes. I could be like that
• 58:11
  defabricator from Bad Wolf and partner the way.
• 58:15
  That would have been very nice. Stop it - stop saying it's very
• 58:19
  on the bus. Now, there's a dramatic thing
• 58:21
  about this dramatic scene that they were absolutely.
• 58:25
  Yeah they were talking over. This sequence is perfectly
• 58:30
  paced. Perfectly written, perfectly
• 58:33
  acted. I think the music they chose was
• 58:38
  and looking at it. Look at it.
• 58:39
  Look at her face. She just there you could just
• 58:42
  see Jodi's, relied the doctors realized We have got to be part
• 58:46
  of the yeah when Graham goes. I don't want to do this.
• 58:50
  Please do this, like he was. Look at it.
• 58:53
  Look at it. It looks like he's about to
• 58:54
  burst into tears. He was in love with a black
• 58:58
  woman, wasn't he? Like, this is the last thing in
• 59:00
  the world. Is this, yeah, this is
• 59:01
  absolutely against everything he stands for.
• 59:03
  You know, he married Grace. I wish Grace had hung around a
• 59:09
  bit longer, you know, she looks was, she's so good.
• 59:11
  I mean, Sharon, the clock is such a good actress, but I was
• 59:14
  really quite shocked that they killed her off.
• 59:16
  I thought that, you know, they might make us all like a
• 59:18
  recurring character or so, you know, she was, she did pop back
• 59:21
  and arachnids and it takes you away shit.
• 59:23
  That's true. Yeah, but I think as well they
• 59:26
  have the way they handle grief for our series 11.
• 59:29
  I'm somebody that has grappled with grief in the last couple of
• 59:31
  years. Since I lost my mother, I just
• 59:33
  thought it was beautifully done anyway.
• 59:36
  Sorry back to Rosa and this very important.
• 59:38
  What do you think about using music music in Doctor Who?
• 59:42
  Because it's unusual, it is unusual.
• 59:46
  I think it works. Well, I think it works really
• 59:49
  well. Is it a religious song?
• 59:51
  Rise up? I don't know.
• 59:55
  It is I have to say being an old fogey, I hearing it in the.
• 1:00:00
  In this episode was the first time I'd ever heard it.
• 1:00:05
  Oops, I don't know. I will rise up but as a as an it
• 1:00:10
  look at Jody's face. He's so I wore when a director
• 1:00:15
  puts a camera right in your face like that and you can't say any
• 1:00:19
  words and you just have to mm. Oh, you got to be pretty damn
• 1:00:22
  confident of your performance. One thing I did notice about
• 1:00:27
  this, was the director wasn't afraid to get the camera right
• 1:00:31
  in their faces around the face. In these extended dialogues.
• 1:00:34
  Yeah. And it does rather show that the
• 1:00:40
  regulars were like that was really skillful.
• 1:00:44
  Be a casting call for them because they can all knock it
• 1:00:47
  out of the park. Yeah you must sing with Ryan in
• 1:00:50
  the cafe and resolution like you know they could they can all
• 1:00:55
  seriously, they are really good actors, don't look at me Walsh,
• 1:01:00
  the pain on his face just set up and that's why they cast him
• 1:01:04
  because he's such a Especially the envelope.
• 1:01:07
  She's I love the fact that she's not angry.
• 1:01:12
  She's she's But it and it goes back to the, to the original
• 1:01:19
  premise. You can't change history, not
• 1:01:21
  one line, and I love. And that's what I go.
• 1:01:25
  Yeah. And I love this bit where she
• 1:01:29
  doesn't look at the doctor. Rosa does.
• 1:01:32
  Look at the doctor's she doesn't look right at, right?
• 1:01:34
  At a Graham, but she looks to rot, she looks to Ryan and she
• 1:01:39
  nods. I love the fact is he?
• 1:01:45
  No, because she knows what he's going to go through.
• 1:01:47
  Maybe, I don't know. She's sorry.
• 1:01:49
  You said something was something my face a bit Twee but like the
• 1:01:52
  instruction in the music is rise up.
• 1:01:54
  IE rise up and face oppression and racism you know, and I think
• 1:02:01
  that's not really worthy. Message.
• 1:02:03
  It is according to the says one website and rs.100 a song, Rise
• 1:02:09
  Up is a song about persevering its courage and confidence.
• 1:02:12
  Ins versus are facing struggle with finding the power in
• 1:02:16
  yourself. To do as day says, in her song,
• 1:02:18
  Rise up doing anything you're going through in your life,
• 1:02:21
  despite anything you're going through in your life, you need
• 1:02:23
  to stay determined and keep going and it's funny.
• 1:02:27
  I think that's one of my Collective worships written that
• 1:02:31
  they don't patronize you as well because he goes, I'll great.
• 1:02:35
  What's it gonna be great for her after this?
• 1:02:36
  And she's like, no. She's a really hot isn't.
• 1:02:38
  No, it still is a really hard life that she gets.
• 1:02:44
  My dear friend Nathan bottomley who does like this episode, but
• 1:02:47
  is extremely critical of the era loaves this ending with the
• 1:02:52
  asteroid and goes oh well, great.
• 1:02:54
  So she went for that. He'll just have an asteroid
• 1:02:56
  named after I'm like Nathan you have no soul.
• 1:02:59
  All right. I think it's lovely.
• 1:03:06
  I think yeah it's a very powerful moment and is it to, to
• 1:03:13
  teach we to say that this is a jewel in Doctor Who's Crown one
• 1:03:17
  of the stories that if you had to limit yourself to, you know,
• 1:03:22
  your desert island Doctor Who episodes?
• 1:03:24
  I think this would be one of them certainly for me anyway.
• 1:03:27
  Yeah, like I said, I think punjab's, even stronger for
• 1:03:32
  reasons, which I'll go into when I Venture but this is the most
• 1:03:37
  important episode of the season. I mean, both episodes are
• 1:03:40
  dealing with. She's of bogus.
• 1:03:43
  No holding the mirror up to that.
• 1:03:44
  Yeah. And as we said already, it's as
• 1:03:48
  important then, as it is now is now yes.
• 1:03:52
  Look at yourself and say I'm are behaving this way.
• 1:03:55
  Or could I behave this way? Yeah.
• 1:03:59
  Yeah. I think you're right.
• 1:04:00
  I think you're right. I think it's as a stunningly.
• 1:04:02
  Good piece of work and, you know, like, we've watched Doctor
• 1:04:05
  Who a long time. There have been.
• 1:04:07
  Lots of sort of worthy stories. Looks like the green.
• 1:04:11
  Death and things like that. I don't mean all the production
• 1:04:13
  is going to come together and you know, you're gonna have
• 1:04:16
  sequences of the doctor. Punting his way through CSO
• 1:04:21
  giant maggots would terrible fringing around and things like
• 1:04:24
  this, but it's just like they threw everything at this.
• 1:04:27
  They threw the money at the location work scores.
• 1:04:30
  Amazing. The acting they cast it
• 1:04:34
  impeccably. And just most importantly, it's
• 1:04:37
  a bloody good script. It is, I wish.
• 1:04:41
  And I'd love Marjorie Batman to come back and write another
• 1:04:44
  story with women Riders, he brought into his era Maxine
• 1:04:49
  oldest ins. Well, I mean, you know, fill out
• 1:04:51
  the Lydia Doherty and also didn't she co-write?
• 1:04:55
  Village of the Angels certainly did.
• 1:04:57
  Hi, I liked sharleen, I can't remember her name.
• 1:05:00
  Now, the one who did can you hear me?
• 1:05:02
  Because that's stealing some powerful stuff as well.
• 1:05:04
  Often can you hear me to really underrated?
• 1:05:06
  Yeah. Well, shall we do?
• 1:05:11
  Do all three apiece, okay? It's pretty tricky with this one
• 1:05:15
  because it's I remember is there's so many, no pressure,
• 1:05:18
  but we'll start with you. Okay?
• 1:05:21
  I'm gonna go with the regulars and how they are all given their
• 1:05:27
  moment to shine. And they're all very well
• 1:05:31
  characterized and it's very, very well done.
• 1:05:34
  And Particularly Bradley Welsh and also and also toasted cold
• 1:05:41
  as well. Who gets to do a lot more than
• 1:05:43
  just be Ryan. Sometimes written as a bit of a
• 1:05:46
  demon character but here is given At the agency and a bit of
• 1:05:53
  a bit of strength. And I think, I think I think
• 1:05:58
  this is probably the best performance in the series.
• 1:06:00
  Maybe maybe resolution as well. I don't know with sings with his
• 1:06:04
  dad but yeah it's it's it shows you why he was cast.
• 1:06:08
  So that's I know that's what that's that's four things one
• 1:06:13
  the combined. All right I'm going to say that
• 1:06:17
  I think people were appalled. And when Doctor Who left
• 1:06:20
  Saturday nights and transferred to Sunday nights, and they said,
• 1:06:25
  well, Doctor Who is not a Sunday night show.
• 1:06:27
  It's big Blockbuster family entertainment, you know, wedge
• 1:06:31
  between Strictly Come Dancing, and whatever.
• 1:06:33
  The modern-day equivalent of Basil brushes, this is very much
• 1:06:38
  a Sunday night drama. It is got an intelligent message
• 1:06:42
  is expensive. It's quite wordy, it relies on a
• 1:06:46
  lot of acting this proves That dogs are here.
• 1:06:49
  Absolutely can be Sunday night drama.
• 1:06:52
  Yeah, and so, that's my first thing, okay?
• 1:06:57
  I'm gonna go, I feel bad about taking this one, but I'm gonna
• 1:07:01
  go with finet Robinson's performance.
• 1:07:06
  Yes. I think it is the best
• 1:07:07
  performance of the series and I think she gives Rosa Parks the
• 1:07:13
  the quiet Stillness that she needs to that and it's very,
• 1:07:18
  it's really. Written very much.
• 1:07:20
  How I would, I would imagine Rosa Parks to be no-nonsense and
• 1:07:25
  quite quite Stern, but at the same time there's a lot of
• 1:07:31
  there's a her faith is is a driving force in her in her life
• 1:07:37
  and that scene where she's talking to you as and saying,
• 1:07:41
  you know about a job isn't worth doing, if it's not doing if it's
• 1:07:44
  not done. Well, I think she's she there.
• 1:07:48
  Yes, there will. We've said, there are more
• 1:07:51
  extravagant showy performances in this series, but I think for
• 1:07:56
  Shear strength of character, she gives the best performance.
• 1:08:00
  I'm going to Lord some Praise on Mark, tonderai the director
• 1:08:06
  because this isn't a showy episode.
• 1:08:10
  This is just about people in America.
• 1:08:13
  Yeah. And there's no big set pieces
• 1:08:16
  and not cyber heads floating over the hill, you know, or
• 1:08:19
  people hanging over acid pools or things like that.
• 1:08:22
  You know, it is just a human drama.
• 1:08:27
  And yeah, I think he Manages to within that, do some really
• 1:08:32
  impressive camera work. I think it's really, really well
• 1:08:36
  bought together. There's a, like I said, there's
• 1:08:38
  lots of crane shots coming in showing off the location.
• 1:08:41
  It's a beautiful moment where the camera start very slowly
• 1:08:44
  goes down an alley as the Tardis materialising just, yeah, he
• 1:08:50
  impresses. In an episode where I wouldn't
• 1:08:54
  imagine a director could impress so Bravo.
• 1:08:58
  Okay. Third one, I'm going to plump
• 1:09:04
  for oh gosh, I think I'm gonna go for the music and I pull it.
• 1:09:12
  I keep returning from second, a canola's music I think is
• 1:09:15
  absolutely right when you have to put a post on Twitter to tell
• 1:09:18
  everybody how to say his name. Oh have I said it right then you
• 1:09:22
  have yeah. Oh good because I wouldn't want
• 1:09:24
  to say it wrong because he's I think he's an absolute Genius
• 1:09:28
  of. I love his music.
• 1:09:32
  And I think here, that's sort of, very sort of American sort
• 1:09:37
  of military-style fanfare that sort of punctuated syrup is, is
• 1:09:42
  really, really, really evocative.
• 1:09:46
  And then there's the music while she's while they're looking at
• 1:09:50
  the at the asteroid and it's beautiful.
• 1:09:53
  And I like I do like marigolds music but it did get a little
• 1:09:58
  bit samey after a while, and I imagine that.
• 1:10:00
  Second a cannoli was going to go on and on and on we probably
• 1:10:03
  might say the same thing about him as well.
• 1:10:06
  Yeah. But it's it's sums up.
• 1:10:11
  Yeah. For me the mood of the whole era
• 1:10:14
  that he can go from one style of different music to another, I
• 1:10:18
  mean the the Britain, the ghost Monument where they're up on the
• 1:10:21
  mountain and the Tardis materialising.
• 1:10:23
  That's I think that's one of the most beautiful pieces of music
• 1:10:25
  that that's ever been in the show.
• 1:10:28
  And I think here he doesn't disappoint.
• 1:10:30
  He's you know, absolutely wonderful music.
• 1:10:35
  I am going to cheat a little bit because you said the, did you
• 1:10:38
  say the acting of the performances of the regulus?
• 1:10:40
  Yes, I'm going to say the 13th Doctor because she's had her
• 1:10:45
  introductory story where she was incredibly good.
• 1:10:48
  Then she's had the coast Monument where she's adrift and
• 1:10:52
  trying to find her way and finds the Tardis.
• 1:10:54
  Now this is our first proper story as the 13th.
• 1:10:58
  Doctor going off in the Tardis. Yeah, he gets to confront the
• 1:11:02
  villain She gets, you know, a violent confrontation as we said
• 1:11:08
  she gets a big historical episode, you know, with her a
• 1:11:12
  bit of a dilemma at the end, she gets to be really funny at times
• 1:11:16
  the Banksy moment or where they're bamboozling the
• 1:11:19
  policeman. I just think it shows a lot of
• 1:11:22
  facets of Jody whiskers 13th Doctor.
• 1:11:26
  Yeah, yeah, like I think she's always good but she's excellent
• 1:11:30
  here. Yeah, definitely, yeah.
• 1:11:33
  Well Well, we could go on actually all and I quite like
• 1:11:36
  this about that. Yeah, it's such a good episode
• 1:11:38
  before. That's what phrase goes.
• 1:11:39
  You know, he then he says well let's do nine things.
• 1:11:42
  I forgot to say it will be a total senility.
• 1:11:46
  I've got a question for you though.
• 1:11:49
  Well how does one enter this contraption hammer and chisel?
• 1:11:57
  I don't know, but I've seen some very strange headgear and I
• 1:12:00
  think it looks very much like a space helmet for a cow, really?
• 1:12:05
  Yes, iPads in a bank in 1964 and then skip forward, 200 years and
• 1:12:11
  claimed a fortune in compound interest.
• 1:12:14
  Anymore. So, I think we could a few Clues
• 1:12:21
  as to, where we going next. We're going back.
• 1:12:25
  We go back. Oh, 1066?
• 1:12:27
  Or 1965 even. And in fact, interestingly, it
• 1:12:32
  is an interesting one to do after this because this is
• 1:12:34
  lenient. So, serious historical is like
• 1:12:36
  the Aztecs in series one time meddler is suddenly where that's
• 1:12:40
  taken a bit of a turn. Isn't it?
• 1:12:41
  Is going into the pseudocyst oracle's they said?
• 1:12:45
  Yeah. But boy, it's a good story.
• 1:12:48
  Is brilliant story. Yeah, the bizarre amount of love
• 1:12:52
  for e-diff in my household, you know, really?
• 1:12:57
  Yeah, was thing is his wife strong character, though?
• 1:13:00
  Isn't she well? She's right.
• 1:13:02
  I mean it's a paulien. Well yeah, there is that bit
• 1:13:05
  there is that aspect to it which is kind of in the next episode
• 1:13:09
  sort of brushed aside which I guess at the time you would have
• 1:13:13
  to do that and you're not really all the comedy.
• 1:13:17
  Yeah, that's an aggressive policy against the woman tonally
• 1:13:21
  is a little bit jarring but it is a bit.
• 1:13:24
  Yes it is is obviously Mark has his own podcast to watch who and
• 1:13:30
  I don't know if you if you go ahead at the end of the seasons,
• 1:13:33
  they do. This thing called the do scurs
• 1:13:35
  which is Oscars and big. A big award ceremony and
• 1:13:40
  everyone's invited from the season to pick up their Awards.
• 1:13:44
  And as I've gone through the seasons, They've gathered up all
• 1:13:48
  the different people that can cook.
• 1:13:49
  And and they provide all the food of these things and EDF,
• 1:13:53
  serious to has turned up at every single ceremony.
• 1:13:56
  So there's a lips are, we'll have to bring up a few times,
• 1:13:59
  you know, about a diff. When we do to bring bringing the
• 1:14:01
  Mead, is she bringing the me? Yeah, but look, this was a big
• 1:14:06
  episodes of the guest has been absolutely wonderful to talk
• 1:14:11
  about this with you. Thank you very much for your
• 1:14:14
  time. It's been great Joe, as all
• 1:14:16
  Always always a pleasure. Thanks very much, bye.
• 1:14:19
  I say Merry Christmas to all of you at home as well.