Latest / Practice Ground / The Data Professor: Stay in the Game Long Enough...That's Where Magic Happens |Chanin Nantasenamat

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The Data Professor: Stay in the Game Long Enough...That's Where Magic Happens |Chanin Nantasenamat · Practice Ground

• Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Alright, we're live, we're live, we're live. All right. So I'm here with Chanin Nantasanamat. you're currently known, at least I know you will, as the YouTube, the data professor on YouTube. But that is just, will I say, the tip of the iceberg. you've also spent a lot of time as an associate professor teaching in research university in Thailand, doing, I believe, bioinformatics, which I want to learn. a lot about. I believe you have about close to twenty years of experience in just research, data science, and using data science machine learning for drug discovery, which I want to learn so much more about that. But you know, I I I think we only started talking, getting in contact in the last maybe six months or eight months. primarily because you're a good content creator. you have your own podcast where you interview data professionals. And we, you know, we did a course together while I was at deep learning for fast prototyping of Gen AI apps with Streamlitz. And you're currently a senior developer ad advocate at Snowflake and Streamlitz. so welcome to my podcast interview leading up to my next book. thank you for being here with me, Janet. For sure. Yeah, yeah, Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, my pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: yeah, yeah. so you know, usually I I kind of like to start with a story. The story is you know, Channan and I were launching a course together. He had done all the work, all the hard work recording everything, and I came in as more of a go to market person to make sure that course was launched properly. Just before I left deep learning. but the the course is fast prototyping. And I remember kind of going through the course, learning more about your framework around, you know, how to build a MVP and you know, just understanding what you were doing. And then that's when I started researching you some more and you know, looking at your YouTube channel. And I know you have this kind of slogan you say. that the best way to learn data science is to do data science. So if you don't mind, tell me more about the your where this philosophy of learning by doing comes from. Nifemi Aluko: Right. Yeah, I believe a lot of the people will will learn best by actually, you know, repetition and also like putting in the hard work. But then but then the best way I believe is, you know, as you have already mentioned, is to do it. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: so because there's a lot of things that we have to, you know, like maybe memorize or but Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Nifemi Aluko: then we don't internalize it until the moment that we actually do it because the act of doing it is a lot of things are going. behind the scenes in and you actually doing it is like you contextualizing that task, you you know, simplifying that, breaking down that mentally. And and then at the end, it's like the end stage is like you doing that. So the Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: more you do, the more in you you will internalize that topic and then you'll become Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: it'll become effortless. So yeah. Which I I think Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: it is is very in line with Cal Newport's, you know, like Be be good, is it be so good at what you're doing that they can't ignore you. Right. So if you do Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm. Be so good they can't ignore you, right? That one. Nifemi Aluko: it a lot of times, then you'll probably be very good at it. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that book because it you know, it talks about, you know, acquire information, right? Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: And what he called, what was it called again, like skill capital, right? You have the Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: skill capital, but you know, there are a lot of people that have it a lot of information. They're usually on the bleeding edge of things, but some of them never do anything. And I think the next chapter was now talking about taking these little bets, right? That you have to develop the muscle of like trying things, right? even if they fail, but at least that muscle has to be developed. And you see that with a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of researchers where it's, you know, practicing. for you, how how has that been, you know, important in your research and now, you know, building, teaching people how to prototype fast? How is how important is, you know, Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: that mindset of putting things out and quickly getting feedback. Nifemi Aluko: Right. Yeah, that's a great question. So it's like you know, like a lot of the times when you're figuring things out, a lot is mentally, but it doesn't actually translate to what goes out into the real world. So a lot of things are happening in your head, but then you don't have proof for that. You Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: you might have a great idea. But then if you don't make it exist in the world, it'll just be an idea. So with prototyping, it's like converting or transforming that thought into something that's tangible, that's something that you could, you know, you could touch. Maybe it's an app, maybe it's like a prototype that you 3D print. And then you share it with other people. And then, you know, you you hear what they have to say about it. And based Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: on those feedback, you make improvements to it and then you learn. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And you know, for you as someone that, you know, I I I I imagine you're very analytical in the way you approach things from research. When you look at and maybe you should even go back, right, to some of the your your research days in in Thailand teaching as an associate pro professor. when you're debugging a complex system, right, and you're looking at data and all that kind of stuff, how much does your intuition or experience come into play? And when when would you say it's good to start developing what I'll say a gut check for for things? Nifemi Aluko: Right. Yeah, that's a great great question. yeah, so I I believe intuitions is i i is something important. I believe I I I read a book kind of like I'm not sure it's called Blink. It's like having Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: that gut feeling that something is going to be a a certain way. So that's like kind of like like a prediction that you make based on the situation. So the more times that you could analyze the the situation, the scenario, and then you see it through to the end, with more more of that, you ha you'll have more data points. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: So then your gut feeling will be backed by data because you have already, let's say, experienced that situation, same exact situation a hundred times. Then you're you're pretty Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yep, yep. Nifemi Aluko: confident that okay, the the 101 time will essentially be quite similar. So, Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: but then the first time around, you know, you might struggle, it might not be correct. That's okay because you learn as you go along. So I would believe, you know, like Same with prototyping, you know, like when when you have an idea, you put it to the world and then you see what the world has to say about it. but if you you kind of become hesitant about it, then it'll be like an analysis paralysis. You think about Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Yep, yeah. Nifemi Aluko: it, but then you don't release it to the world. It'll stay stuck in your head. Other people might come up with the same idea and they they build something amazing out of it, and you'll be like, that's your lost opportunity. So I would say Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: just, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect. Just put it out to the world. And iterate on it. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah. So you know okay, now with prototyping, when do you know something is worth like when do you distinguish between something that is worth pursuing and something that you should shelf, right? Because similar now that we're in this phase, you know, back then, you know, you would actually have to be quite thoughtful to be like, Am I gonna spend money to you know, at least for me those days, get on upwork, type up a you know, a thing for a developer to give me like a prototype and then play around and then go take it to, you know, prospective customers. you know what, maybe this idea might let me shelf that. So you you know, back then you used to be at least somewhat thoughtful. Now with Gen AI, things can go faster, which is a blessing because you can like I can knock out these prototypes like two a day at this point. Right. But when do you know Like something is worth, you know, pursuing. Nifemi Aluko: en Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: either an idea or even I personally think there's some, you know, time lost when you prototype like five or six things, right? but when do you for you, when do you know like, okay, this is worth trying out? Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so yeah, that's a good one. I I would remember this one situation from my work where in a in a given quarter I'll have to produce this set amount of Outcome, which is like the content that I'll be producing. Let's say we have 12 content to create, 12 sets of content to create. I'll spend the first two months creating the tool. And then the last month creating the actual content. So I was a bit nervous, you know, like okay, two months in, and it's like nothing, no content to show for it. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Nifemi Aluko: And it's it's very it's like a roller coaster ride. But luckily the tool came out. And the tool was that I use, I kinda vibe coded, but then also iterate back and then check, improve, refine a AI powered pipeline that helps me with my content creation. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. So most of my tutorial are based on let's say a Jupyter notebook. So I what I essentially created was I transform a trooper notebook into a blog, into a technical step by step, you know, written website Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Uh-huh. Nifemi Aluko: as well. And so because you know the the step is is always the same. You you have the code, you try to explain the code, then you c you try to, you know, Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: take screenshots of that and you know rinse and repeat. And the thing is, what if you could do that one time in in the code? And it it it will run tirelessly hundreds, thousands of times based on what you would have done. Yeah. So I I Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Done. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Nifemi Aluko: did a lot of prompting, a lot of prompt engineering, a lot of you know revising of the output. And you know, once Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: I got the output, okay, let's tweak the prompt and then it generates a new output. Okay, it looks good. You know, I do this like you know, thousands of times until it's perfect for for my use case. Then, you know, it it generates. the let's say a a seventy percent good Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: enough version. And I'll spend a day, you know, roughing that up into a in into a blog that I'm pretty proud of into my own style, which Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Yep. Nifemi Aluko: kind of resembles how I would write it. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Exactly. Nifemi Aluko: and then kind of, you know, release that all, you know, at the end, you know, in the last month 12 content. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And do you have like a process to like obvious so what I've learned is Jenia is great for like prototyping, right? Getting stuff, you know, that MVP is very good to get that quick MVP. But then to get it to like production, that's Nifemi Aluko: Right. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: where you need like the data engineers, the data scientists, you need to put those guardrails. Nifemi Aluko: Right. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: You need to make sure there's a good evaluation process, right? For me, I've done a whole bunch of prototypes. And sometimes, you know, I do them and I'm like, that was cool. And I've moved I kind of move on. And there are a few that have like, okay, that have gotten a sense of, let me see, let me take this further. I show a few people, they give me feedback. Do you have a system that helps you? particularly to, you know, move from prototype to production. And when do you say this one thing I'm working on is worth going that extra step? Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, yes. That's laser sharp question. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: yeah, so you know, like it's hard to say what production means. it really depends on each individual's perception of production. It could just be something that goes live and customers see it and pay for it. Is production ready? so for me, I believe it's like using Gen AI, sometimes we kinda devalue what it ha it is. We we generate something, we might not give it the proper value that it it is supposed to have because it's fairly cheap to create a prototype. Maybe you spent like a few dollars to generate that prototype and you just dump it out. What if it was something that you spent months creating? We would have have to force ourselves to be creative with what we have and try to find ways to make it worthwhile the effort that we already have lost into creating that prototype. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: But then now with Gen Eye is like things are pretty cheap. You know, spend 20 cents on this prototype and it's like just throw it away. But but yeah, definitely Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Nifemi Aluko: it it it it also really depends. we don't need to stay stuck with a product that we don't feel I mean a prototype that don't we don't feel aligns with what we intend to have. So We could just pivot and move on to the next great thing. So, but then the thing is, I would believe we might be in the constant, you know, treadmill of chasing that shiny object. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: And that might be an like a never ending journey. and that and we might get stuck there. And so we might not never go to production. So I guess Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: it's kind of like we might have to embrace imperfection because when we're in the pursuit of perfection. we might just keep on doing it over and over again and you Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: know, it never goes into production. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nifemi Aluko: just to have, you know just to have something that's like good enough and then, you know, gather real feedback from real customers instead of just your high expectation of something. And Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Exactly. Nifemi Aluko: then you never shipped it out. so yeah, I'm also struggling with that as well. So yeah. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. I you know, I see that also with like content creation, right? Where you might say, this this thing is not ready to go out there. For me, a newsletter, I write a newsletter every week, there's always some doubt, like, is this good enough? But what I'm finding is just the deadline helps, right? The deadline is on Friday I need to publish, end of story, right? Whether it's perfect or not. And sometimes I you know, if if you're in a business where there's a deadline for whatever it is, the objective is clear, then okay, you know you kn have to hit it. But I feel like we're in a space where everybody's trying to figure it out, right? The the business objectives are sometimes quite vague where they're like, everybody just just use AI and like to do what? I don't know, just use just use it, right? Nifemi Aluko: Use for the sake of using it. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah yeah So, you know, like, do you do you feel there's a space to even just educate people around how to make sure you know people are not constantly on this roller coaster of striving for perfection and when good is good enough, right? When that prototype is good enough to go show 10 possible customers and bring it back. What is your gauge for? You know, that type of education. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, so the course that we launched in Deep Learning at Deep Learning AI on the fast prototyping of Gen AI apps with Streamlit was when scoping the MVP initially, create a checklist of what we need. And if our prototype hits all of those checklists, then we're probably ready to go production. So yeah, it's like once we hit the checklist, you know, ticked off all of them. Let's proceed with the the next step. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Next step. Yep. Yep. so switching gears a bit, right? So as as someone that is educating people, whether it's in a university, whether it's on your YouTube channel, whether it's through the open source projects you're doing, I mean I think you're you're a natural or trained educator, right? so as an educator, when when a student now can get instant answers from Gen AI, what's what what does your job then become? Wha what do you what do you do? Nifemi Aluko: That's great question. Yeah. So, you know, like when I was in university, we had like like a university-wide workshop. And one of the 20 I think they believe I believe they call it the 21st century skills is to have students, you know, think for themselves. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Hm? Nifemi Aluko: So us as teachers, we're we're like we're not instructors only, but then we're facilitators. And they have this thing called like a flipped classroom. where teachers are no longer, you know, like what students will look up to, like it's the ultimate ground truth of knowledge. But Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm. Nifemi Aluko: then we're like their coach. We're like their facilitators. We provide them with resources that they use to internalize knowledge. And Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: we as like instructors who might have more experience than the student will guide them. we don't have all of the answers, but we do know what is likely to be correct or not. And we provide Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: them with the necessary resources to help them grow and learn. and sometimes we learn with them as well. So I Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: think it's like a two way street. so yeah, I mean teachers in this modern age of Gen AI, where like, you know, just coaches, facilitators, and yeah, AI is another resource in addition to Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: libraries or books. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. And and Shannon, do you know what if you were going to point down or point towards a thing that you're coaching them on, right? Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Right. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: So just like basketball coaches, like, okay, I'm coaching this team to win, I'm coaching them to shoot better, play better defense, whatever it is. What would you say the skill or the set of skills you're trying to coach d these the students on. Nifemi Aluko: I think like ultimately it's like, you know, like when when when we're creating a course syllabus, teaching a course, we'll have like the course outcome. What is expected of the student to learn about or what they are expected to do after completing the course. So that based on those, I think, you know, for for every course, there they're gonna be a set, you know, metric for for the learner's Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Not move. Nifemi Aluko: objectives. and It you know, na nowadays I think Jenny and I will be able to help them, you know, particularly provide feedback twenty-four seven, how a Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Uh-huh. Nifemi Aluko: an instructor would. and but then that also raises another question because teacher could or I mentioned teacher could be facilitators, but what about LMs, right? LMs could also be a coach as well. You ask it questions. I also Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, huh. Nifemi Aluko: use LMs to to you know to to kind of coach me about different topics that I'm learning about. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Nifemi Aluko: So then where do the human where do the humans go, right? So I I Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: I believe the humans would have to co evolve with AI. because so I think the the different thing now lies then is that the teacher and the students, the teacher will have more experience. let's say that. And then Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Yep. Nifemi Aluko: based on the experience that they have, if they receive the same information from the LM, then they'll be able at to at least, you know, provide some Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: guidance. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Yep. Nifemi Aluko: You know, in in the direction of how they could make sense of that AI. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I think you what you're saying is the importance of experience. yeah yeah. Nifemi Aluko: Experience. Yeah. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: And being able to either ask the right question or even question what the L L has provided or whatever it is for the student. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: Right. And experience is not only positive experience. It it could also mean a lot of failures. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Nifemi Aluko: So because like like when I was doing my PhD, I remember spending the first year, you know, failing at every single experiment, you know, doing it right. It's not that we're we're doing it wrong. We're doing it right methodologically, but then the results is not what we're expecting to have out of it. And so Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: because you know, a lot of the people doing, you know, research work there. they could become discouraged because let's say spending a year or two and getting only failures is like it's very depressing. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Yep. Nifemi Aluko: so yeah, failure is also equally important to success. And I I believe failure would would be good lessons to to you know to convey and maybe share your experience experience of failure Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: to others. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. And you know, it is very interesting. You said that I when I was talking to my professor from grad school, I had this thing that I mean, I think, you know, people that do their PhDs or researchers will be great entrepreneurs because they fail so much doing, you know, with their experiments and you know, going that through that scientific process of, you know, testing, experimenting, failing, learning from the failure. What did those repeated failures at the beginning of your PhD, what did that teach you? Like what skill came out of that repeated like Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, definitely. Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: things not working out? Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. So for one, it's like, how do you how do you handle the failure? For one, it's it's not only just research, but it's also, you know, like the human elements as well. You know, like how do other people perceive you when you fail, let's say, for a year or two? so there's stress not only from the research itself, but you know, the human factors, people around you, and how do you you know, maintain that sanity and move on to Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: continue that. you know, I see a lot of friends who might have quit their their PhD journey or or even pivot to another topic. So yeah, persevering is one thing. And the thing is if you persevere enough, you know, things you s you you kind of get lucky. And then once you do, Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: then you kind of know how to pivot around the potential failures. Then you become Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, Nifemi Aluko: good at, you know, evading potential failures and yeah. I think that's where the magic happens. But it's Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: only persevering through that hard times, you know, then then you'll probably figure things out. It might quite Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. You know, when when I was at Stanford, one thing that really stuck out to me was one one was a entrepreneur turned investor and you know they taught us, you know, all these different things in class and towards the end, he said, you know, most of the successful entrepreneurs that he has worked with are actually risk minimizers, right? And for me that was, you know, I was a young person. I I thought I was like, whoa. You know, I never thought about it that way because I thought like entrepreneurs were more, you know, risk takers, right? but he then said like over time, the more you take risk, you just get better at taking more sensible risk, right? So they actually learn to minimize the risk with experience over time, which has been a very good thing for me, you know, as I've kind of gone through my career. And it's kind of similar to what you're saying right now. Nifemi Aluko: Right. Yeah, that's actually a great point. And if I was to compare that to a research project, would be, you know, what all research, you know, at the initial stage is you come up with a research question, which is the hypothesis. let's say if you want to start a business, maybe you have a hypothesis that a certain product might be interesting to to the customers. And then based on that, you you will iterate through, you know, do your market research in academia, you do your literature review. You launch the product, you do your research. and it I think it goes parallel, you know, like you get customer feedback, you get experimental results, and then based on Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: those data points, you you do your analysis and then you do your report, you write up your, you know, your your report based on the data, customer data, based on the product features, all of that. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: And then I think it it kind of goes side by side. And then more times is that not our research project is. you know, successful a lot will be Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: fail, you know, will be a failure. But then yeah, the more projects that you are involved in, you'll be able to have this educated, you know, that that thing that you mentioned earlier on. That notion of something, that gut feeling. Yeah. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, like pattern recognition, yeah. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So I think the moral of the stories is just stay in the game, just stay in the game long enough. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, yeah. And don't I guess it's like, yeah, to stay in the game. Even through Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Just stay in game, yeah. Nifemi Aluko: the hard times. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. So Jan and you also do a lot of like as a s senior developer advocate, kind of, you know, taking these big ideas, these new complex systems and trying to educate people. some people are non-technical, some people are technical. And you know, one thing I found in that space, even talking to a lot of people while within, you know, data professionals and AI is for a lot of people, they you know, through the education, they want they they kind of want the learners to have this type of aha moment, right? Where it's wow, now this tool can do this thing for me. great, now I'm on board, like I'm gonna sti stay here, right? do you have a way to create a condition for someone to discover something they didn't know that they needed to learn? Do you have Have you figured out a way to kind of, you know, curate this environment? Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yeah, that that's a tough one to answer. I would say, sometimes I would just, you know, try to think of things as like if I create a course or if I create a tutorial, how would I tell my, you know, five years self or you know, t five years ago self, not five year old self, you know, when I was like let's say Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm. Nifemi Aluko: beginning the journey, if there was a video about this, you know, Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: then I'll I'll try to, you know, try to think of that persona and then craft the course or tutorial based on that. And as Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Nope, yep, yep. Nifemi Aluko: for me myself, I'm not a computer science graduate. I came from a biology background. So there's a high, you know, threshold for me to understand the concepts of computer science or particularly, you know, coding and all of that good stuff. So therefore I I kind of have that, you know, empathy with with beginners from from outside the technical field Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: No. Nifemi Aluko: and try to, you know, have that persona in mind and you know, craft the content to, you know, put steer them into the direction of how things are. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, you you mentioned your background coming from a biology. Can you just tell me how that happened? Like what's you know, if you don't mind just telling me your journey through undergrad, Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Right. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: what you learned and then bioinformatics and then how you got here. Nifemi Aluko: Right. Yeah. So my undergrad was in biomedical science, which was pretty much kind of like going the path of pre med, eventually Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: going to medical school. but then, you know, like in that fourth year, I had this feeling that I wanted to change to computer science. But then it was like fourth year, right? So I had a a year more to go and I I'll get like a biology degree. Or I could start, you know, maybe from do a lot of prerequisite and go for the computer science path. So I chose Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: to remain in the biology path because you know I'll only spend a year more and I'll graduate. But the thing is I didn't know what I wanted to do afterwards. So a after graduation. So what I did was I saw a post for a PhD degree, which is, you know, it comes with a scholarship. So yeah, it's a great time to think about what what you want to do while, you know, pursuing something that's pretty interesting, which was the engineering. so yeah, the first project I worked on was, you know, engineering a green fluorescent protein from the jellyfish to change his color or change Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: mhm. Nifemi Aluko: his relative color intensity in the presence of heavy metals, kind of like a a biosensor, so so to say, whenever it Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Got it. Yay. Nifemi Aluko: detects like contamination of cadmium then the the the fluorescence intensity will decrease. So then you know okay there's cadmium in there. Yeah. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Got it. Now there's something yeah yeah in the water. Okay. Interesting. Nifemi Aluko: So that was like the the start of you know pursuing that path. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm. Mm. And you know, from there was it s did you then just continue down that field and say, Okay, now I'm interested in Nifemi Aluko: Yes. Right. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: you know, the reason I'm asking me, I was talking to another like Stanford professor, right? And he he was kind of breaking it down like he he's in the computer science department. But it was like he kind of got into it with someone that was from the nine new neuroscience department because there's a lot Nifemi Aluko: okay. Right. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: of like a lot of machine learning kind of emerged a bit from neuroscience and or Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: not a bit emerged from neuroscience and you also you know when I was looking at your background I was like okay there's some biology here my professor right even though we were in the chemical engineering department he has gone down this path where is doing systems analysis for chemical and biological systems So I'm like, man, there's a lot of it's a lot of biology in this. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Right, right, right. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: do you do you feel like where we're are are obviously with gen AI is cool that we can write code, write, generate text, generate art, all that kind of stuff. but it seems biology, there's still so much and biology, chemistry, proteins, all that kind of stuff. It seems like we're literally still just scratching the surface. Am I wrong or is there still is there so much more that that you know to do? Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, definitely. I mean, biology is a very complicated topic. There is a lot of unknown and a lot of the research work that biologists are doing, it's is just essentially breaking things up into small, repeatable experiments. you know, in a controlled factor environment where they investigate a single factor to see whether that causes, you know, a certain change, maybe Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Yep. Nifemi Aluko: a the the progression of a disease or not. But then in real life it's it's much more complicated. There's thousands, millions of factors, but then we're essentially investigating maybe one or two in a single paper. So it's like there's still a lot to be known. but gen Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: AI is very important, you know, in in that discovery. like I remember when I started my PhD, we we just like in in the US or in in the UK, they did DNA sequencing. So they they knew the genetic blueprint of life. the DNA. And then that kind of triggered more investigation into like the downstreams, the the proteins, the RNAs. And Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: then that led to a lot of, you know, scientific effort into let's let's take the crystal structure of the proteins and try to understand the 3D structure of proteins. That to it is it's very labor intensive to crystallize a protein than to get to get the the three dimensional structure into a computer form. But nowadays, you know, maybe three day three years ago, they have Alpha Fode, right? Deep Deep Mind from Google. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: They had a an approach that rivals traditional experimental approach. And then they were able to predict accurately the three-dimensional structure of proteins. So there's a lot of things that Gen AI could benefit in you Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: know in in the field of biology. But still, you know, there's still a lot to be learned about. And yes, we are definitely just scratching the surface. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I think I'm very excited about that part of like using generative AI or just the whatever the next phase is in terms of, you know, neural networks and using that for physical or biological processes or even chemical processes. so switching gears a bit, right? Now there's more just kind of well I say on more on the philosophical side. Right. things are changing very fast. you know, it's hard to predict it's hard to predict the future. Like it's trying to predict the future is like is don't even try at this point. Like things are moving so fast, right? For you, how do you stay aligned with kind of your tastes, the things you find important, your values? How do you stay aligned when The environment is so noisy. Do you have any practices? Nifemi Aluko: That is a good question. Yeah. So, you know, like with in in the age of Gen AI or AI in particular, I feel like I'm left out in a lot of the ongoing, you know, tools that are released. Let's say that I I I focus deeply on on a certain topic. And then and then after that period of time has you know has gone through Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Fast. Nifemi Aluko: or passed by. When I look around, it's like, whoa, it's it's a totally different landscape Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: from where when I started, right? Like with Genny I before we had like a few platform, then we became agentic AI. And now Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: we have like observability. And now we have like, you know, CPU based LM model inference on a mobile phone. And it's like, you know, there's a lot of things going on and it's like it's hard to keep a mental map of that. So I feel like, you know, having to start over again, learning to To kind of like map them the space again. But definitely it is very difficult to kind of keep track of that. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: But I what I find doable is if you have a subset of that landscape, then it it will become more manageable. Let's say that if you Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: want to focus more at the the front end part, like for being you know, streamlet and and it's interface with LMs, then it's doable. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Of course. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: But if you want to do like the whole landscape, I mean there's so much going on. Right, right. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: So much. Yep. Yep. Yep. Cool. Cool. And do you have any particular rituals, practices of, you know, when things start to get kind of blurry, when things are moving too fast? Do you have any things that help you stay grounded? Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. So it is like staying grounded in terms of you know, having a set of things that I'm aiming towards and trying to stay in that path. It's kind of like a turbulent water where let's say you are on a boat and then the water is very, very turbulent, like a perfect storm kind of scenario. Yeah. So the challenge is staying on course and and and carrying Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah yeah. Nifemi Aluko: out the project that we're we're we're looking to to do and trying to you know go t towards the end of that. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm. Mm. I find like having like projects help, at least me. Or journaling journaling in the morning has been helpful just to kind of remind me was important. but having a project is something that kind of keeps me anchored. I don't really once I have like a project I'm working on, I don't really feel like Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: anything new is so like out of whack, right? So to give you an example, like a year, not a year ago, maybe sometime in March, or I built like this voice app, right? I was, that's pretty cool. You know, Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: I can call it on my phone. I connected it with Twilio, all that kind of stuff. I was like, that's nice. And then maybe two months after that, like MCP came out, right? Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: MCP was like a buzz, buzz, buzz. And it was this, I was like, okay, let me see if I can connect this voice app to an MCP server, right? That has my content. Okay. Boom, Nifemi Aluko: Mm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: boom, done. You know, and then you go and then Cloud Code comes out. And then you're like, can I improve this app with Cloud Code? Right. So for me it was the project just kept being like this anchor that allowed me to learn any new Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: thing. And if it didn't fit into the project, then I'm like, that thing is really new, right? It's very new that I maybe I need to go learn it, or maybe I don't need to learn it, right? Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: So I feel like having something that kind of brings you back. That's like a practice that has really helped me. all right, so three more questions, right? Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: Right. Well yeah, before we proceed, that's actually a great point that I think I could connect to in terms of like when I was in academia, and let's say that my ground truth was working on a project for finding cure for Alzheimer's, then that kind of like was the like like the anchoring project. And whatever Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: paper that I read about or whatever new tool or technology that came, Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: is like how do I apply that to my project? And the project Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Exactly. Nifemi Aluko: will grow based on that. So so yeah. Kind of reminds Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Nifemi Aluko: me of that. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think though those things are very, very, very helpful. And all right, so how does building technology shape your sense of purpose or contribution to others? Nifemi Aluko: Wow. Okay. So I would probably have to refer to the Iki guy. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Okay. Nifemi Aluko: it's like what the world needs, what I'm Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: good at, and if I could make money out of it. Right. So Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: let's say, as a developer advocate, I'm employed. So yeah, that's where my money comes from. So I don't have to worry about like, you know, side projects. I don't have to solely rely on the side projects. But although I'm I'm also fig figuring things out, you know, in the age of Gen AI, I'm also, you know, figuring things out on, you know, potentially creating like a like a SaaS app, Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: which is which is always going on my mind for the past several years. Although my technical capabilities Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: is quite limited, but I'm learning more and AI is helping me learn more in in the gaps that I have. So it's kind Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: of like like maybe a co founder or or a a coding body where Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Nifemi Aluko: whenever I have questions I'll just ask it for the answer and you know, get that gap kind of filled. And so yeah, I mean there's a lot of things to to learn about and yeah. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm glad you brought up the Ica guide because I remember I came across it po I think in two twenty six twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. I was just like three years out of business school. I started my business Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Right. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: and you know the business was going well, it was growing slowly, and and I was really questioning, okay, what am I doing with my life? And I I'm always asking that question by the way. And I saw this like professor talk about this Ica guy whereas you know kind of map our contribution, it and w where you have a skill set and can you yeah make money out of it? Is it serving people? For you in that bucket of service to people, what what do you think based on your You know, you're an educator, you're trying to get people into data science, you know the value of, you know, applying this to like drug discovery and the benefits it can have for health. What is that for you? Like, what is the main thing when you're teaching people? What is it that you want to impact on them? Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, that's that's a great one. So, you know, like my first journey into becoming a YouTuber was just to, you know, educate my students. you know, creating resources that could be like a ever evergreen Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: content where they could just go to twenty four seven to have reference to. And then it kind of evolved more into like, okay, people who are breaking into data science. And I started this channel in in August of twenty nineteen. And then four months later, you know, people stayed home. We had the pandemic and Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: And then and then the channel kind of blew up there. and then I I met more fellow cre content creators, collaborated with them, more growth to the channel because of the collaboration. Then eventually you know, produced some sets of tutorials, three sets of tutorial courses for the Free Code Camp channel, which is a very huge nonprofit coding channel with I think more than eleven million subscribers right now. So that kind of further boosted you know, the the the channel growth to, you know, fifty thousand and then eventually Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: a hundred thousand subscriber. But then, you know, they're just they're just metrics that, you know, although it's good to have, it kinda helps with the motivation as well. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's it's like creating content tutorials. It is kind of like my my my philosophy, you know, like in in content creation there. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: It's just to educate people on how to learn things, new tools, new data and AI tools to kind Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Yep. Nifemi Aluko: of help them. and you know, one day I met one of my subscriber in real life in a conference. And then he mentioned that he got into tech because of watching some of my tutorial videos. Learned coding, Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Wow. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: and then he went on to pursue his master's degree and then he graduated. I think he he went to to UC Berkeley for his master's. And then he went he went to a a big tech company. For a few years, and then he's he created a startup and then he exited the startup. He sold it to a big tech. And it was like, whoa, okay, that's pretty amazing to hear. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Okay. Nifemi Aluko: and yeah, you know, like recently I went to Harvard to to to serve as a panel speaker, and I later found out that, you know, the person who invited was a subscriber of my channel. He's a professor there, Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Really, wow. huh. Nifemi Aluko: and I met several other professors who were also. subscribers of the channel, they kind of recognized me when I was looking for the table where I was assigned to during the the speaker dinner gallery. They saw me and then they kind of recognized like, you're Shannon, right? I'm like, yes, how do you know me? And then they're like, okay, we we follow you on YouTube. Yeah. So it it's pretty amazing on how, you know, YouTube kind of empowers you to, you know, democratize learning and how that Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: could also in a in another way help you, you know, with more opportunities. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: that I wouldn't have expected it w it to have and it's kinda like a two way, you know, you teach and then sometimes you get, you know, some good karma to kinda help you. Yeah. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It comes back to you. That's amazing. That's amazing. quick question and you know is c sort of linked to the one before. what role does technology and AI have in how you currently make sense of the world? Nifemi Aluko: Ooh, makes sense of the world. Okay. So okay, AI is like is like a coding buddy for work, right? But then outside of work, it also is kind of like a coach. like when when when I moved to the US last year, for for the second time, so I just got like a an employment based green card. This is my second green card. I got the first green card from a family sponsored green card and and then I kinda gave it up when I was living in Thailand and then got it again through work. So there's a lot of new things that I'm learning as an adult. As a child is like nothing to worry right about, right? But then as an adult it's like the taxes, the Medicare, all of the health Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: No. Nifemi Aluko: insurance and stuff. You know, asking AI kinda helps me, you know, to Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: to kind of navigate that. And it's very complicated, you know, there's a lot of things, a lot of forms, a lot of, you know, and even Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm. Mm. Huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nifemi Aluko: starting my own, you know, YouTube channel and kind of like making it, you know, legal is to, you know, establish a legal entity for for the channel. Yeah. Yeah. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I you know, I'm a immigrant myself and I know that those times with like the green card or even going from gre green card to citizenship, you had to go into like forums and people like, you know, just waiting for results and you know, you had to find the one that was credible and all that kind of stuff. I can imagine how helpful it that could be now. for people that need that type of coaching and going through that Nifemi Aluko: Right. And you essentially are using RAG, you you dump in, you know, a a lot of documentation, a lot of documents. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Yep. Nifemi Aluko: Just ask the the data directly. Yeah. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, I know. I wish I had that ten years ago, to be honest, when I was through Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: the process. all right, final question is like a fun question that we ask most people. All right, so Nifemi Aluko: Okay. Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: if the entire world, right, went dystopian, right? Dystopian Nifemi Aluko: Ooh. Okay. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: is the the AI has gone crazy, it has taken AGI is here, yeah, Nifemi Aluko: Time in. Okay. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: exactly, and you know where we're all enslaved to like the master AI, right? And then that's dystopian world. And then on the other hand is this utopian world where we have friendly, trustworthy AI doing stuff for us where we have abundant food, abundant resources, and we're just, yeah, you know, we're we're just living a life, getting a universal basic income, everybody is peace, all that kind of stuff. There are these two worlds, right? You have to choose one, right? You have to choose one. And then in that world that you choose, what practice would you be doing on a daily basis to live your life? Nifemi Aluko: Okay. Hmm, interesting. Had to choose one, right? And in the dystopian Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, that's true. Nifemi Aluko: world, how does it look like again? Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: I mean, you know dystopian. Yeah, I can you paint it however you want. Maybe there's dust, there's dust, deserts. People are scrapping, looking, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's there's Nifemi Aluko: Okay. Ooh, like fallout, textile. okay. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: a there's huge inequality, right? A few people have a lot and then everybody else is scrapping, but Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: you know, we're all reporting to this intelligent being that we created that got out of control. Nifemi Aluko: Ooh, okay. Yeah, it's pretty tough, you know. You know, like we could debate both sides, right? But then like Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: I I'd say like going with the the second path would be maybe nice to because you know people are happy there. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: but still I I mean it I guess it's pretty hard for a world to exist where everybody is happy. I I think ultimately it is what we strive for. Then like sometimes in reality, you know, it kinda is impossible. and I Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: think, you know, a lot of the things are opportunities and Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep. Nifemi Aluko: maybe human greed Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: are factors. So yeah, but but definitely striving for the second one would be good. And what would I do? maybe something fun. Figuring things out. Yeah. Learning new things. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: huh. So l learning stuff. What else would you do, life for fun? Nifemi Aluko: yeah, let's see. I mean for for that life, I mean automation would probably be like, you know, standard stuff, right? Maybe touch grass some more. Something more, you know, Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yep, touch grass for sure. Nifemi Aluko: human connection, you know, that good stuff. Chanin Nifemi Aluko webcam 00h 00m 00s 231ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Cool, man. Hey, Channel, thank you very much for answering all these questions. I know they're not the easiest questions to answer because to be honest, nobody has the answer, and that's why I'm asking. but I really appreciate your time, appreciate you sharing your knowledge with as many people as possible, and also just your generosity in general, sharing your knowledge and your time and friendship with me. so thanks for joining and hopefully, you know, when the book comes out, yeah, you I'll send you a copy also. Yep. for sure. Nifemi Aluko: Looking forward to it. Thank you. Yeah.