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Canada, UAE to expand trade and investment ties in new deal · THE DAILY BRIEF

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  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's dig a little bit deeper into this
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  Speaker 1: visit and the deepening of ties between the UAE and Canada.
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  Speaker 1: We're joined now by Costanza Muzu in Ottawa. She's a
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  Speaker 1: professor and the director of the Graduate School of Public
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  Speaker 1: and International Affairs at the University of Ottawa. Thank you
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  Speaker 1: for joining us today.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you.
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  Speaker 1: What is your expectation from this meeting and the ongoing
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  Speaker 1: discussions between the UAE and Canada? What does it signify?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think to best understand the meeting and the
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  Speaker 2: expected outcomes, we really have to place it in the
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  Speaker 2: wider effort of PM Carney and his government to diversify.
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  Speaker 2: I've already discussed this just a minute ago, and I
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  Speaker 2: would reiterate that really this is the frame to understand
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  Speaker 2: all those The trips and the efforts. Priority number one
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  Speaker 2: is the one that Carney has already mentioned a number
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  Speaker 2: of times, which is diversification. How do you diversify? Well,
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  Speaker 2: you seek new markets, you seek new partners. But here
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  Speaker 2: comes the kind of squaring of the circle. How do
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  Speaker 2: you find new markets? while maintaining a principled approach, while
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  Speaker 2: maintaining the priority and keeping the priority of human rights,
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  Speaker 2: worker protection, et cetera, et cetera. Well, that's not always
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  Speaker 2: something that can be done at the same time. And
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  Speaker 2: he's trying to find formulas that try to respect both.
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  Speaker 2: So the effort with the UAE is really to be
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  Speaker 2: seen in this idea of diversifying and moving away from
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  Speaker 2: even a frame of mind that in Canada has led
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  Speaker 2: over decades to a complete dependence, almost complete dependence on
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  Speaker 2: the American market. The UAE per se is not a
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  Speaker 2: huge market, but the symbolism also matters, as well as
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  Speaker 2: the concrete output, which can be new market, new possibility
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  Speaker 2: of investments, access basically almost tax-free for 98% of products
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  Speaker 2: and a variety of other baskets that can be potentially
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  Speaker 2: attractive for Canadians.
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  Speaker 1: You know, when we talk about a principled approach and
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  Speaker 1: shared values, something that is being discussed of some questions
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  Speaker 1: about Canada deepening its ties with the UAE as we
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  Speaker 1: talk about the human rights record, etc. I'm wondering, are
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  Speaker 1: there any nations that only pursue economic ties with countries
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  Speaker 1: where they share the same values? Or do all countries
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  Speaker 1: have to go outside of their principles and shared values
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  Speaker 1: in order to broaden their economic footprint?
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  Speaker 2: Frankly, I think this is a dilemma that all countries have.
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  Speaker 2: And the hard reality is that even countries with very
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  Speaker 2: strong human rights records and enforcements around the protection of
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  Speaker 2: human rights do find themselves having to have conversation with,
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  Speaker 2: you know, some time less than impeccable And obviously, we
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  Speaker 2: have seen in the past weeks a lot of chatter
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  Speaker 2: and excitement over Carnie's effort to get closer to the
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  Speaker 2: European Union. Well, the European Union itself has had to
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  Speaker 2: have over the past decades worked. a lot of economic
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  Speaker 2: conversations with a variety of actors, some of whom have
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  Speaker 2: less than perfect human rights records. You know, so finding
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  Speaker 2: that balance between being open to having conversations and not
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  Speaker 2: narrowing down on one interlocutor and maintaining principle is really
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  Speaker 2: what this prime minister is trying to do. Is it
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  Speaker 2: ever going to be completely clear? The reality is that,
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  Speaker 2: in my opinion, it's not clear for Canada and it's
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  Speaker 2: going to be a challenge for Canada as it is for,
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  Speaker 2: you know, member states and the European Union as a whole.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we cannot continue relying exclusively on the United
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  Speaker 2: States where, at this time, human rights are also a
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  Speaker 2: bit of a question mark in some areas.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, and that was part of the question, too, is
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  Speaker 1: that why the same questions are not being asked as
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  Speaker 1: different countries pursue relationships, deepening of ties with the United States,
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  Speaker 1: looking for trade deals with the United States. And under
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  Speaker 1: the Trump administration, certainly there have been some questions about
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  Speaker 1: different rollbacks of domestic and civil rights and immigration, mass protests,
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  Speaker 1: the crackdowns involving ISIL. Why do you think that is?
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  Speaker 1: Is that the same questions are not being raised when
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  Speaker 1: it comes to, you know, different countries seeking to deepen
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  Speaker 1: ties with the U.S. or to reestablish trade deals with
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  Speaker 1: the United States?
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  Speaker 2: I think you're putting your finger in the biggest issue, right?
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  Speaker 2: We are very, we as Canada, but broadly countries are
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  Speaker 2: very dependent on our trade. categorization of who are the
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  Speaker 2: good actors and who are the quote unquote bad actors
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  Speaker 2: in the international system. And the reality is that, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we need to walk away from those categorization. When we
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  Speaker 2: think about the United States, we also have to ask
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  Speaker 2: questions nowadays of those type of crackdowns that you mentioned.
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  Speaker 2: We share, for example, as Canada and the United States
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  Speaker 2: share a preoccupation with immigration policies. Well, there are immigration
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  Speaker 2: policies and the desire to have lawful policies. immigration procedures.
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  Speaker 2: And then there is the ice crackdown and there is
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  Speaker 2: the family separation and the deliberate cruelty. You know, that
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  Speaker 2: is a violation of human rights and we've seen it
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  Speaker 2: on many levels. So I think we need to move
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  Speaker 2: away from certain paradigm. I would even call it a
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  Speaker 2: path dependency. That is what we've always done and that
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  Speaker 2: is what we will always continue to do. It's very uncomfortable.
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  Speaker 2: And I think the priority for the government must be
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  Speaker 2: to find a formula that allows us to also maintain
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  Speaker 2: our identity as Canadians and our priorities, including on human rights.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm sure you will have noticed in his welcome words,
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  Speaker 2: Carney just 10 minutes ago mentioned human rights efforts and
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  Speaker 2: support efforts in the region. You know, how to support
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  Speaker 2: Palestinian civilians, for example. Why would he mention that? It
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  Speaker 2: is because he's making this effort and he's trying to
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  Speaker 2: square that circle. How successful can any government be? That
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  Speaker 2: remains to be seen.
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  Speaker 1: Costanza, I want to thank you so much for your
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  Speaker 1: thoughts and analysis on this today. We appreciate your time.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 1: That was Costanza Mutsu. She is a professor and the
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  Speaker 1: director of the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs
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  Speaker 1: at the University of Ottawa. Thanks again.