Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Steven Kubacki – Vanished Without a Trace - Solved

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Steven Kubacki – Vanished Without a Trace - Solved · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: In February of nineteen seventy eight, a twenty three year
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: old college student vanished near the frozen shores of Lake Michigan,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: leaving behind his neatly arranged belongings and a trail of
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: footprints that seemed to leave nowhere. Then when all hope
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: was lost, months later, he suddenly reappeared, claiming he couldn't
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: remember where he had been or what he was doing.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: For nearly half a century, the truth behind his story
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: remained buried beneath conflicting claims, strange evidence, and debates of
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the paranormal and supernatural. That is until one day, over
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: forty years later, the truth finally came out, and it
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: sent shockwaves around the world. This is the story of
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Stephen Kubaki.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: And Grim, a true crime podcasting. The following material more matial.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Audience Listener discretion advised.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Does that being too close?
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: It was a little aggressive, But I mean I'm not
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: complaining or anything. It was just you're asking for a review.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: It was it was. It was a good one, don't
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: get me wrong. Oh yeah, taste good hit the spot.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yeah, right before this is like, God, I
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: wish I could sit here and eat snacks, you know,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: which you just never could. But at least I guess
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: you can have a nice cold drink.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, there is a corner store not too far
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: from where we live. We could just, like, after this,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: go rip over and get a bag of chips and
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: sit in bed and fall asleep and are just chip,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: greese and crumbs.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I meant, like, while I'm listening to you, yeah nice,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: you know that wouldn't do good. I think that we
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: would probably not have a single person listen to us.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Can you just imagine if I was eating chips crunching away.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I'm just telling a story and you're just couldn't even
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: hear the words I'm saying. What story it is? Get
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to the end, what's happening? If you could, what would
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: the snack be that you would snack on during the podcast,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: assuming that it made no noise or anything.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Probably like chips. I often crave chips because I think
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I just like the crunch you know.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, so something crunchy, fair enough. But you like pretzels?
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Though, would you go, oh shit, okay, this is so odd?
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: But I used to think so you know, the Munchies bags.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming that's the thing almost everywhere, but it has
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: a mix in there. It's like durrito and sun chips.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: And pretzels and stuff. Yeah.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: So I used to think pretzels were like the shittiest
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: part of that, but now I fucking love pretzels. Is
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: that like I'm kind of aging here, Maybe some of
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: like pretzels.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: To be fair, I do still think that, like pretzels
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: are the shittiest part of those bags, But it's not
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: against pretzels. It's just the other chips are better.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: But they do have flavored pretzels and oh stuff now,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: which is kind of amped up, you know, people's perception
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: of pretzels.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: That's true, Yeah, because if you have like a regular
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: pretzel versus like a flavored one, the flavored one is
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: generally way better. Just like if you're listening to our
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: podcast versus on Patreon, our Patreon is generally way better.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And you can go ahead and sign up over on Patreon,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: just like everyone does over there, for example, like Diana Guerrero,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Kristin Toasik, Jaden Williams, Jessica ninks kJ and Tonia they
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: all signed up. They get that exclusive behind the scenes,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: they get the exclusive episodes. You name it. That good
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: good stuff, that good good stuff.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: You actually got me on that one.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Did I?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: You did?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Ah? Yes, Yeah that was good.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: It was pretty slick. I'll give it to you.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I deserve a pat on the back of you do.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because here I was just I was so indepthely
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: talking about pretzels. I just you just got me. I
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: was not ready.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: It's just the snack talk. You're just so involved in
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: pretzels and snacking. That's what I need to do to
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: distract you.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do have a very interesting story for you today.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: As far as mystery goes, this has been a mystery,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: a huge mystery for a very, very, very long time.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: It's one of those stories that just takes over an
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: entire community of like people, like people who like true crime.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: We all know, like John Wayne Gacy for example, Right,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: people who know who like mysteries and paranormal or supernatural
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: generally know this story. Okay, So I've got an insane
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: roller coaster of a ride for you in this one.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: It almost seems like it might be an odd one
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: that you haven't done before, Like it's odd that you
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: haven't done it before.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Well, it's not really true crime per se. I mean,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: you could actually interpret it as maybe being true crime.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of why. Okay, But I was just
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I was cruising. I came across it again.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, it's just a nice, fun episode.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Okay. Well, I mean you got my attention. I'm ready.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well I got your attention. At pretzels apparently.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you gotta stop. I don't have pretzels. I
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: can't eat them right now, So we've got to stop
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: talking about pretzels, pretzels press.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's get on with this story. So in February
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy eight, Stephen Kubaki was twenty three years
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: old and he was nearing the end of his time
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: at Hope College in Holland, Michigan. Now Hope was a small,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: private Christian college located only a few miles from the
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: eastern shore of Lake Michigan, and it maintained close ties
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: with the Reformed Church in America, and its campus reflected
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: the conservative religious culture of the surrounding community. Now Stephen however,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: did not fit neatly into that environment. He was very
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: intelligent and independent and more unconventional than many of the
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: students around him. Bob Namar, another member of Hope College's
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: graduating class, described Stephen as brilliant and somewhat more free
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: spirited than the average student attending the school. While many
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: students lived in college housing, Stephen, on the other hand,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: while he chose to live off campus with a roommate.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: His interests covered a wide range of subjects that he'd
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: begun college with thoughts of even studying medicine, for example,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and he had done well in advanced science courses and
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: including physics. Over time, his attention moved towards history, German
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: language and culture, philosophy, psychology, and larger questions about the
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: nature of reality. He changed academic directions several times. Depending
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: on who you ask, he could be described as a
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: history student, a German student, or someone whose education crossed
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: between several different departments. What remained consistent, though, was his
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: curiosity and willingness to follow an idea wherever it took him. Now,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Stephen was also willing to challenge the college when he
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: believed something needed improvement. In nineteen seventy seven. For an example,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: he helped write an opinion piece for the Hope's student
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: newspaper about the school's library. Stephen and his co author
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: argued that the library's collection was inadequate and that the
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: books that they already had available well, they were being
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: depleted through theft, so they needed to have an installation
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: of an electronic security system to better protect the collection.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Now it's clear that he took books and ideas very seriously,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: but it's important to note that he was not someone
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: who spent all of his time inside classrooms or in libraries.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Stephen had grown up in the western Massachusetts area, where
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: he developed a lasting interest in the outdoors. He enjoyed
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: things like hunting, hiking, skiing, and exploring unfamiliar places. He
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: was always comfortable traveling on his own, and that independence
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: had already taken him well beyond Michigan. Stephen had spent
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: time studying at the University of Freeburg in West Germany,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: where he continued learning the German language and explored subjects
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: including Jungian psychology and parapsychology. The courses reflected his interest
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: in human consciousness and experiences that appeared to fall outside
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: the boundaries of conventional science. His time in Europe also
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: gave him opportunities to travel and climb mountains. He moved
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: through unfamiliar countries with confidence, and he developed relationships that
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: remained important after he returned to the United States. Stephen
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: even had a romantic connection in Germany, and people around
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: him also spoke of relationships in France too. Now, these
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: overseas connections were part of his life, life that was
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: not limited to Hope College or within Holland. See Stephen
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: was comfortable leaving familiar surroundings, and he had even previously
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: traveled back to Europe for a short trip after returning
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: to Michigan. By the end of nineteen seventy eight, however,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Stephen was back in Holland and preparing to finish his education.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: He was only a few courses short of completing his degree,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: and he was expecting to graduate in the spring. He
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: was also making his plans for life after college as well.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Stephen had a job waiting for him. It was at
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: the Holland Sentinel, the local newspaper serving Holland and the
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: surrounding areas. His father was preparing to sign ownership of
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: a house over for him too, giving Stephen another reason
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: to think about what life might look like once he
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: was done school. His future wasn't completely settled by any means,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: but several pieces were certainly seeming to fall into place.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: He was close to graduating, had possible employment ahead of him,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: maintain person snow relationships overseas, and had family support waiting
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: for him in Massachusetts.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, it sounds kind of like he's in this
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: phase of life that's pretty darn exciting. Really.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: It seems like that phase of life everyone works towards. Yeah,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: it's like he's his quote unquote American dream is now
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: coming to fruition, totally getting a house. He's educated, he's
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: got a job lined up, like all these sort of things.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So it almost just sounds like he's like ready to
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: start live and he's set.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's set. That's a very good way of putting it. Now.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: During the weekend of February eighteenth and nineteenth, winter remained
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: firmly settled over Western Michigan. Snow covered the ground while
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: freezing temperatures had created large formations of ice along the
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Lake Michigan shoreline. For Stephen, the conditions offered an opportunity
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: to spend time outdoors. Cross country skiing was already very
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: familiar to him. He had traveled through the area near
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Lake Michigan before, and there was nothing unusual about him
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: choosing to go out alone. The train south of Holland
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: included wooded trails, open stretches of snow, and access to
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: the shoreline near the town of Saugatuck, so Stephen told
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: his roommate that he planned to go skiing. The exact
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: length of the trip was not exactly firmly established, but
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: was expected to be brief and overnight, perhaps lasting one
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: or two days. Stephen was cheerful and enthusiastic as he
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: discussed his plans to go out during the coming week
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: with friends. He was thinking about classes too, and graduation
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: that was looming, and the ordinary responsibilities that were waiting
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: for him when his weekend was over. The solo trip
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: into the snow was right up his alley. As Stephen
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: had experienced outdoors, he knew the area, and he traveled
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: through far more challenging terrain before. So he gathered up
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: his equipment, including his cross country skis, his poles, and backpack,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: and after speaking with his roommate about the trip, Stephen
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: left and headed southwards towards the snow covered shoreline near Saugatuck.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Then a couple days later, on Monday, February twentieth, nineteen
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: seventy eight, a group traveling through the area near Lake
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Michigan came across a set of cross country skis that
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: appeared to have been abandoned in the snow. And it
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: was certainly an odd site, as there was nowhere in
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: a pop It was nowhere in a populated area, This
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: was in a back country, and in fact it was
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: unusual enough that they decided they needed to contact local authorities.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: See the skis were located near the Lake Michigan's shoreline,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: along a trail that began near Saint Augustine Seminary in Saugatuck,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: and when officers arrived, they examined the area and they
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: found the equipment arranged in what police reportedly described as
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: a quote neat orderly manner. The skis had been placed
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: side by side, approximately eight inches apart, with both pointing
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: towards Lake Michigan. The ski poles had been pushed upright
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: into the snow on the outside of the skis, and
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: a fully packed backpack rested neatly on top of them.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Nothing appeared to have been scattered around the area or anything,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and the arrangement didn't suggest that someone had simply dropped
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: the equipment while moving quickly or responding to an emergency.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Officers began examining the belongings, trying to find an indication
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: of who had owned them.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, so it's just odd that how they were just
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: left there without anyone around is basically the issue.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Well, the issue was that these are left there in
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: an area where someone wouldn't abandon their gear. Okay, so
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: if you're off on a hiking trail or a ski trail,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: off in the back country, like I'm not saying like
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how far he was from the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: closest house or civilization, but he was far enough out
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: that it's like snowboarders or snowbeelers are the ones who
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: ran into him. I've read both reports. So you have
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: people off enjoying the country, right, so you run into
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: gear and there's no one around. That's a concerning site
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: because now you might have a lost person.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Because to get out of there you would probably have
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: needed that gear exactly.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: So it's concerning that someone doesn't have their gear. They
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: might be lost back here, they might be cold, who knows.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: So that's why the authorities were called.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Okay makes sense now.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: When they were looking for the belongings through the belongings,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: my apologies for you know, ID or something. They didn't
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: find a driver's license to say whose belongings these were.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: There was nothing obvious of identification, but among its contents
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: they did find a bill for a dentist which was
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: bearing the name Stephen Kubaki, which gave investigators somewhere to begin.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Police contacted Hope College and started making inquiries about the
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: twenty three year old student. They learned that Stephen had
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: told his roommates about the plans to go cross country skiing,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and that he had left haul ind for the weekend,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: but he just hadn't returned yet. Officers began to examine
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: the snowy surroundings in the area more carefully in search
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: for both Stephen and more indications of him. Near the shoreline,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: they found a trail of footprints leading away from the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: land and onto the frozen surface of Lake Michigan. The
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: tracks continued across the snow for approximately two hundred yards
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: as investigators followed them, the footprints appeared to form a
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: one way path, only there was no obvious second set
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: of tracks showing that the person who made them had
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: turned around and walked back towards the shore. The trail
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: simply continued farther onto the lake until investigators reached a
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: point where the footprints stopped and they couldn't follow him anymore.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: The condition of the ice itself only added to the confusion.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Someone traveling across Lake Michigan during the winter could easily
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: find themselves in danger. Ice conditions could change unexpectedly. Even
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: someone with extensive outdoor experience could encounter thin ice or
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: freezing water, and even rapidly worsening weather. The most immediate
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: possibility of what had happened out there was that Stephen
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: had suffered an accident of sorts and possibly had fallen
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: through the ice and drowned. However, investigators couldn't find a
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: location where that may have happened. The ice around the
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: end of the trail wasn't broken or anything. There was
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: no big hole in the ice, there was no clearly
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: visible opening where Stephen could have fallen through, and the
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: search of the immediate area produced just no sign of him. Now,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: The arrangement of his equipment presented another question if Stephen
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: had encountered an emergency while skiing, It was difficult to
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: explain why his skis, poles, and backpack had been left
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: so neatly near the shoreline. The skis were aligned beside
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: one another, the poles were standing upright, and the backpack
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: was placed on top. The scene was very deliberate. It
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: had been placed down with care. Soon the Michigan State
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Police arranged for an aircraft to search the area above.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: The United States Coast Guard was also contacted and searchers
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: began examining the shoreline and frozen lake for any signs
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: of Stephen. From the air crews searched for tracks, damaged ice,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: abandoned clothing, or anything else that might indicate where he
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: had went. On the ground, investigators continued examining the area
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: around the equipment and the route leading to the lake,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: but they found nothing nothing that explained Stephen's absence. There
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: were no signs of him or additional belongings scattered farther
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: along the route, and searchers found no other trail showing
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: that Stephen had changed directions returned to land. Somewhere else.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: The possibility of drowning remained the most practical explanation. At
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: this point. Lake Michigan is enormous. The winter conditions alone
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: were dangerous, and locating someone beneath the ice if they
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: had gone through, could be extremely difficult, if not impossible.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: News reports soon began describing Stephen as a missing Hope
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: College student who is believed to have fallen through the ice,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: but the searchers working around Sagatuck did not have enough
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: evidence to know that for certain.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Well, and it doesn't really make sense too. If you
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: can see his footprints, right, you would also think that
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: you would be able to see that he fell through
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: the ice exactly.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: There was no evidence of this, But what else could
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: have happened?
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just bizarre. It's like he just got lifted
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: into the air something.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Almost what it seems like now. What investigators had at
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: this point was Stephen's belongings. They had his footprints, and
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: they knew that he'd planned to go skiing but he
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: hadn't returned. But beyond that, there was little for them
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: to work with. As the search continued, authorities began contacting
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: people who knew Stephen and gathering information about his plans
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: before leaving Holland. They needed to know whether he had
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: mentioned meeting anyone or whether he had intended to travel
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: somewhere else, and whether anything had been happening in his
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: life that could explain why his equipment had simply been
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: left behind on the shores of Lake Michigan. They needed
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: to understand what Stephen had been doing before the skiing trip,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: what his plans had been, and whether there was another
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: reason he might have left his belongings behind. One of
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the first people investigators spoke with was Stephen's roommate. He
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: confirmed that Stephen had mentioned his plans to go cross
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: country skiing two days before his equipment was discovered. Stephen
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: had skied in the area before, enjoyed spending time outdoors,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: and was comfortable traveling alone, so it raised no red flags.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: The roommate also provided investigators with a better understanding of
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Stephen's independent personality. The previous year, for example, Stephen had
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: unexpectedly traveled to Europe for approximately two weeks, with his
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: roommate helping to pay for the trip. Stephen was clearly
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: capable of leaving on adventures without making extensive operations or
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: telling everyone around him exactly what he was doing. That
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: raised an obvious question. Could Stephen have disappeared voluntarily? Some
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: people at Hope College apparently believed it was possible. The
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: neatly arranged skiing equipment and the absence of clear evidence
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: that Stephen had fallen through the ice left open the
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: possibility that the scene had been deliberately created. Stephen's roommate
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: didn't believe that that's what had happened, though his reasoning
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: was a little unusual, and he didn't claim that Stephen
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: would never leave unexpectedly or that he was completely incapable
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: of staging his own disappearance. Instead, the roommate believed that
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: if Stephen had planned something like that, that he would
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: know Stephen would have told him. As far as he
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: was concerned, Stephen must have encountered something unexpected. Investigators also
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: spoke with a female student who had seen Stephen shortly
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: before he had left for the skiing trip. Her account
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: also offered no obvious indication that Stephen had been preparing
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: to abandon his life. She remembered Stephen being in good
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: spirits and enthusiastically discussing his plans for the coming week.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: He had classes to finish and graduation approaching, and nothing
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: about his behavior suggested that he was scared, frightened, depressed,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: or even preparing to leave Holland at all. She too,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: believed something must have happened, and that maybe Stephen had
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: been involved in a terrible accident. As investigators continued gathering information,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: they learned about the possibility of a sighting near Lake
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Michigan that complicated the picture. See On Sunday, February nineteenth,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the day before Stephen's equipment was discovered, a couple had
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: been in the same general area when they noticed a
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: young man climbing on a large formation of jagged ice
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: near the shoreline, and the man roughly matched Stephen's description,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: but he wasn't alone. The couple reported that at petite
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: young woman with long dark hair had been standing nearby
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and taking photographs of this man as he was climbing
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: across the ice. Now, the witnesses could not positively identify
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: the man as Stephen, but the location and the timing
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: well it was enough for investigators to take the sighting seriously.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: If it had been Stephen, then the skiing trip may
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: not have been as solitary as everyone initially believed, so
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: police returned to the people who knew him and began
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: asking questions about this strange woman. Stephen's roommate, for starters
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: couldn't identify her, neither could the female student who had
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: spoken with police, and both reportedly told investigators that Stephen
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: did not have a girlfriend living in the area. His
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: only known romantic relationships were overseas, so without a name
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: or additional information, there was little police could do to
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: locate the woman. Now. If the sighting was in fact accurate,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: investigators needed to consider where the woman had gone, why
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: she had not contacted, and whether she knew anything about
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Stephen's whereabouts. But they just didn't know if this was
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: true now. Another female student also came to the attention
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: of investigators. Although the available police records provide few details
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: about her identity or relationship with Stephen, what was known
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: was that she had become deeply distressed around the time
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Stephen went missing. The student stopped attending classes and threatened
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: suicide as she left a note for her roommate, and
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: after a while she left Hope College and went to
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: live with her aunt in Grand Rapids. Her behavior was
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: significant enough to become part of the police investigation, but
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: ultimately provided no explanation for Stephen's disappearance. The records did
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: not establish that she had been with Stephen near Lake Michigan,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that she had helped him leave the area, or that
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: she knew where he was. It seemed like a whole
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: other event on its own.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, she could just have been struggling on her own,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: something personal herself.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent that's the likely situation. It just seemed that, well,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: if there's a student missing at school, in this particular
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: student as.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden seemingly to be very upset, so
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: just odd timing, potentially exactly now.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Investigators were left trying to make sense of several possibilities.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Stephen could have fallen through the ice somewhere and searchers
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: were unable to locate him. The dangerous winter conditions made
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: that explanation very entirely plausible. Even without a body, he
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: could have deliberately left his belongings behind and traveled somewhere else.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: His previous spontaneous trip to Europe demonstrated that he was
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: capable of leaving unexpectedly, although his roommate and female student
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: friend who saw him before the skiing trip believe he
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: had no intention of disappearing, and there was also the
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: possibility that someone else had been involved. The couple near
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Lake Michigan may have seen Stephen with an unidentified woman
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: shortly before his equipment was discovered. The police just could
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: not establish who she was or even confirm that the
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: man in question had in fact been Stephen. As February
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: came to an end, none of the possibilities could be proven.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: The searches had not located him, and police continued searching
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: and searching and searching, and following the limited information that
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: they had available. Then, in the first week of March
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, Stephen's mother, Elaine Kubaki, contacted the Michigan
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: State Police after learning that a family friend had received
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: a series of unusual phone calls that were apparently connected
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: to her missing son. According to the police records, the
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: person making the calls instructed the family friend to contact
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: another phone number. They gave the family this phone number
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and claimed that Stephen could be reached there, but when
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the friend tried the number, it had already been disconnected.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Then Elaine began looking through old telephone bills and discovered
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: something unusual. In early September nineteen seventy seven, approximately six
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: months before the skiing trip, she had received a fifteen
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: minute telephone call from Stephen using that exact same number.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Elaine remembered that conversation, but she admitted that she didn't
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: know where Stephen was calling from. The Michigan State Police
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: contacted the Michigan Bell provider and confirmed that the telephone
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: number had been disconnected. Later in September of nineteen seventy seven,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: but thankfully, with assistance from the company, investigators apparently found
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: the owner of that number. But from what I found,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: it didn't provide any useful details.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: That's like super odd though it is. I don't know,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: but nowadays it's just so much more common for people
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: to have they'd have their one number too. Right back then,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I feel like you could be using other people's phones
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: so much more easily because you don't have your own
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: personal one like on you at all times.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: For sure. Yeah, you're over at a friends and like, oh,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: can I use your phone quick? Yeah? But nowadays you're
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: over at a friends, Oh I'm going to call someone.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to use myself my own phone, so
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: it is more likely. I mean, you can still use
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: people's phones nowadays, and you do, but it is certainly
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: more likely that you have your own phone. You're one
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: hundred percent right now. Police also attempted to determine who
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: had been making the more recent calls to the family friend,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: but unfortunately it was a dead end, and it left
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: police unable to determine who was behind the messages or
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: how they knew about the telephone number Stephen had used
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: months earlier. Investigators kept searching and returned to Hope College
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: and asked the dean whether he had any idea who
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: might be responsible. The dean told police that Stephen associated
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: with a group of approximately twenty people who he described
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: as quote weird in his opinion, any of them could
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: have been capable of making those phone calls, which is
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: both offensive and not helpful whatsoever.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: No, that's almost kind of rude, I know, right, And like,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: what is his definition of weird? Maybe he's freaking weird,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Like I don't Yeah, I don't really like that either exactly.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Now I have a speculation on why this weird would
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: have come up. Apparently Stephen was an avid Dungeons and
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Dragons player, so I'm assuming he probably played D and
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: D with some friends in college, and the deans like that,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: dude's weird because the whole Satanic panic that was going
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: through in the seventies and stuff like that. But even still, yeah,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: not helpful at all. Yeah. Now, when it came to
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Stephen's family, they continued to help, but they refused to
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: accept the conclusion that he had fallen through the icing dround.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: And because of this, Stephen's brother even hired a private
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: investigator from the apparently it's called the fat Man Detective
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Service in Grand Rapids to conduct an independent search. It's
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: quite the name.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I love it, Honestly, it is quite the name.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: He believed Stephen may still be alive, and he suggested
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: that he could maybe have traveled to Germany he'd done
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: it before, which was a reasonable thought. Now, Steven's brother
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: believed that if he had decided to travel to Germany,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: he would have flown icelandic Air from Chicago. So police,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: who were also following this lead, contacted the airline and
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: requested passenger manifests for flights departing from Chicago between February
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: seventeenth and February twenty first, nineteen seventy eight, but the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: records contained no passenger named Stephen Kubaki. Now, these results
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: did not completely eliminate the possibility that Stephen had left
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: the country. He could have traveled through another airport, chosen
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: another airline, or even used a different name. Who knows. However,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: investigators had no evidence that any of those things had happened,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: and as the weeks passed, the search still continued. Police
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: repeatedly returned to the area near Lake Michigan. They remained
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: in contact with people connected to Stephen. Leeds were examined,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: interviews were conducted, and investigators continued looking for information that
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: could explain how a college student has left it equipment
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: behind near the shoreline and simply disappeared, but nothing provided
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: an answer. Spring soon arrived and the ice along Lake
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Michigan began to disappear a bit more each day, and
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: if Stephen had drowned, there was still hope that his
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: body might eventually be recovered. But it wasn't, and at
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the end of the academic year, Stephen had been only
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: a few credits away from finishing his education at Hope College,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: and the school while it eventually a warded him a
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: bachelor's degree even though he was missing, but the nineteen
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: seventy eight, graduation class still took place without him. Months
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: continued to pass, and the investigation remained active. Stephen had
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: not contacted his family, or returned home or to college,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: or had been located. Even the private investigator hired by
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: his family had also failed to find him. During the
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: period Stephen remained missing, authorities expanded their search and even
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: sent his dental records to Chicago so they could be
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: compared with the unidentified victims connected to the serial killer
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: John Wayne Gacy, but the comparison didn't identify Stephen among
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: the victims. The end of nineteen seventy eight, Stephen had
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: been missing for nearly a year. His family continued searching
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and remained unwilling to accept that he had died in
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Lake Michigan, while investigator still had no evidence establishing when
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: had happened. February nineteen seventy nine marked one year since
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Stephen had left Holland for his skiing trip. His family
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: still did not know whether he was alive or whether
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: he was dead, and no one could explain how he
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: had left the shoreline and simply just disappeared. Then, on
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Saturday May fifth, nineteen seventy nine, a man named Ronald
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Curtis was driving through western Massachusetts when he stopped to
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: pick up a hitchhiker near Pittsfield. Now. Curtis was a
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: divinity student attending Berkshire Christian College in Lenox. The hitchhiker
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: wanted to travel south towards Great Barrington, a small town
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: approximately twenty miles from Pittsfield. Curtis agreed to take him
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: on his way, and during the drive, the two men
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: began talking about his journey that had brought him on
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: to the side of the road to be picked up
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: and heading to western Massachusetts. Now. According to Curtis, the
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: man explained that he had recently traveled across the country
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: from California. He said he had flown from San Francisco
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: to Boston before taking the bus west to Pittsfield. Now,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: after crossing Massachusetts, he was trying to complete the final
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: part of his journey by finding a ride to Great Barrington.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: The man knew where he was and where he was going.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: He could describe the transportation he had used to reach
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Massachusetts and had a specific destination waiting for him at
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the end of the drive. As they continued towards Great Barrington,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the hitchhiker explained that he was going to go visit
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: a woman who lived there. He described the woman as
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: a friend and gave Curtis an unusual explanation for why
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: he was visiting her. According to the hitchhiker, he was
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: bringing her news about a mutual acquaintance who had been
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: missing for some time. Now, at some point the conversation,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: the man also introduced himself. He said his name was Nathan.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Curtis continued driving south until they reached Great Barrington, where
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: his passenger directed him to a house that he wanted
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: to visit. And once they arrived, Curtis dropped off Nathan
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: and continued on his way. Now, the woman inside this
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: house was named June, and she was not simply a
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: friend of the hitchhiker. See, she was Stephen Kubaki's. And
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: now at this point you might be wondering who this
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: man is. While the man Ronald Curtis had driven from
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Pittsfield to Great Barrington was in fact the Hope College
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: student who had been missing for more than fourteen months,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: he was in fact Stephen. Stephen had left Holland, Michigan,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: in February of nineteen seventy eight for a cross country
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: skiing trip near Lake Michigan. His skis, poles, and backpack
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: were discovered near the show. Investigators had spent the following
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: year trying to determine what had happened to him, and
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: now he had arrived at his aunt's home in Great Barrington.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: What the shit? After dropping him off of the house,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Curtis drove away without knowing the true identity of the
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: man that he had just encountered from his aunt's home.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Stephen was now reunited with the rest of his family
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: in South Deerfield, Massachusetts. For the people who had spent
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: more than a year searching for him, his return brought
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: an end to the question that had followed them since
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: the skiing equipment was discovered. Stephen was now found alive.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: That's bizarre. That could have given his aunt a heart attack.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Probably imagine seeing that on your doorstep, just all of
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: a sudden, boom, here he is.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it would be like
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: some serious relief and happiness, but also like is this
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: a ghost?
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: No shit, It would be a shock, for sure, a
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: good shock.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Now, his mother, Elaine, had refused to accept that her
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: son had drowned the family had spent thousands of dollars
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: on that private investigator, while police continued pursuing leads and
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: considering all possibilities that took the investigation far beyond Lake Michigan.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: And now Stephen had returned in apparently good physical condition,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and Alane was not immediately concerned with understanding where he
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: had been. Quote, it's really just grand, she told reporters.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: The world is a great place again. Eyes were all
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: on Stephen. What happened? Everyone wanted to know. However, he
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: could not offer almost any sort of explanation for the
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: fourteen and a half months that he was away. The
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: story he gave reporters began near Pittsfield, Massachusetts. Stephen said
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: that he had regained consciousness in a grassy area without
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: knowing where he was or how he had arrived there.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: His entire memories of the previous year were completely good
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: on and he didn't even understand how much time had
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: passed since his skiing trip. According to Stephen, he eventually
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: got hold of a newspaper and he saw the date.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: It was May fifth, nineteen seventy nine. This meant that
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: more than fourteen months had passed since the last memory
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: he had well. Although Stephen knew who he was and
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: remembered his life before leaving Hope College, he claimed to
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: have no memory of anything that happened between February nineteen
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: seventy eight and his arrival in Massachusetts. The belongings he
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: had in his possession suggested he had traveled extensively during
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: that time. He was carrying approximately forty dollars in cash,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: had a pair of new glasses and shoes that he
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: didn't recognize. He was also wearing unfamiliar clothing, including a
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: T shirt connected to a marathon in Wisconsin. Inside his
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: backpack were maps and hitchhiking signs associated with locations including Sacramento,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: San Francisco, Reno, Chicago, and Utah. Taken together, these items
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: suggested that Stephen may have traveled thousands of miles across
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: the United States during the period that he had no
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: recollection of.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is definitely the case you need a bag
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: of pretzels for. It's like, I'm just sitting back, just
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: like why I'd like trying to figure it out. My
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: brain's just going nuts.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: This is a huge roller coaster of a story, trust me.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: There's twists and turns to come still that you will
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: not see coming.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Well, that just is so wild that someone can literally
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: not know what the fuck happened or they were doing
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: for the last fourteen months.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I know, it's bizarre, huh. So Stephen couldn't explain anything
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: about where these belongings had come from or how he
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: had obtained them. He didn't remember visiting the places represented
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: along these maps and road signs, nor he could he
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: provide any sort of account of how he supported himself monetarily,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: where he had lived, or who he had encountered during
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: this whole previous year. His memories of February nineteen seventy
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: eight remained intact up until the final part of that
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: skiing trip. Stephen recalled being near Lake Michigan, where he'd
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: become cold and lost in the darkness. He remembered feeling
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: scared that he might freeze to death, but after that
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: there was nothing. Stephen believed that exhaustion and exposure to
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: the cold might have caused whatever happened to him. He
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: said he intended to see a medical doctor for a
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: physical examination, but he rejected the suggestion of needing to
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: see a psychiatrist for any sort of treatment. He insisted
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: that He'd been in a very healthy state of mind
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: when he left, and he remained in a healthy state
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: of mind now. Now. Reporters naturally questioned whether Stephen could
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: have actually deliberately abandoned his life and staged this whole event,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: But his answer was to describe the circumstances that he
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: left behind in February of nineteen seventy eight. Quote, my
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: father was going to sign over the house to me,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Stephen said. I had three courses at school and no trouble.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I left romance in Germany. There was no trouble with girls.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I had a job lined up with Holland Sentinel newspaper
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: end quote. As Stephen explained it, there'd been no reason
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: for him to disappear voluntarily at all. He had been
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: approaching graduation, believed he had employment waiting for him, maintained
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: a romantic relationship overseas like it was all perfect. He
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: was expecting to get a house from his father. Why
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: would someone like that just up and leave? There was
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: no reason. Stephen did tell reporters that he intended to
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: retrace his movements and attempt to determine where he might
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: have gone or where he had been. But for now,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the most important thing was that he was home. News
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: of his return, of course, began to spread like wildfire.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Now this is when Ronald Curtis came across this story.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: He was the man who picked up this hitchhiker near
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Pittsfield and driven him to the house in Great Barrington,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: and Curtis recognized the man in the news. He had
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: spent time alone with him on May fifth. In that car.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: During the drive, he had spoken with him about his
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: travels and listened to the man explain how he had
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: reached Massachusetts. The hitchhiker had not mentioned waking in a
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: grassy area to him, and as far as he knew,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: he had not appeared to be unable to remember where
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: he had been. Instead, he described a journey beginning in
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: San Francisco, and in fact, if you remember, he had
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: also given Curtis a different name. After seeing the reports
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: about Steven's return, Ronald Curtis contacted the Associated Press, and
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: according to Curtis, the man he had picked up on
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: May fifth had not behaved like someone who had suddenly
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: regained consciousness or awareness after losing more than fourteen months
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: of his memory. Curtis said the hitchhiker had explained that
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: he had traveled from San Francisco to Boston by plane,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: then took a butts to Pittsfield. From there, he needed
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: a ride to Great Barrington. He said he knew where
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: he was going. He directed Curtis to the house and
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: explained that he was visiting a friend with news about
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: a mutual acquaintance who'd been missing for some time. Quote
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: he never said anything to me about waking up on
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: a grassy hill end quote. However, Stephen claimed to have
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: no memory of meeting Curtis at all. The two accounts
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: represented two very different versions of that very same day,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: and according to Stephen, he regained awareness near Pittsfield with
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: no memory of the previous fourteen and a half months. Eventually,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: he would discover how much time had passed and made
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: his way to his aunt's home, and according to Curtis,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: the man he identified as Stephen knew that he had
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: recently traveled from San Francisco and had a clear destination
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: in Great Barrington. There was no immediate way to determine
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: why the accounts were so different, but they were now.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: One possibility was that Curtis had simply been mistaken. He
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: had not known Stephen before May fifth, and had only
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: connected his passenger to this missing college student after seeing
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: the reports of Stephen's return, whether intentionally or not. Although
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: he believed the resemblance was remarkable, the possibility remained that
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: the hitchhiker was another man, and another explanation involved the
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: complicated nature of memory loss. Stephen's story became associated with
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: what was then commonly called psychogenic fuke and is now
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: generally known as disassociative fuke. Someone experiencing such a condition
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: can travel away from home and lose memories connected to
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: their identity or previous life, while remaining capable of carrying
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: out ordinary activities. A person might communicate with others, use transportation,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: handle money, and even assume another identity before later becoming
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: unable to remember what had happened. The possibility offered one
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: explanation for the name Nathan and the extensive travels that
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: suggested Stephen's belongings. However, there was no confirmed diagnosis establishing
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: that Stephen had experienced disassociative fugue. He had also rejected
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: psy psychiatric treatment after returning and maintained that he was
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: mentally healthy, so that put a bit of a wrench
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: in the diagnosis part. Now, the third possibility was that
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Stephen had deliberately disappeared and was not telling the truth
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: about his missing memory at all, and Curtis's account could
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: support that interpretation. However, it did not prove it. Investigators
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: had never established how Stephen left the lake and where
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: he spent the following fourteen months, or whether anyone had
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: even helped him. There was no confession, no confirmed accomplice,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: or documented evidence suggesting that disappeared. As far as a
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: plan went now, Stephen, after this whole incident, gradually moved
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: on with his life. Questions remained at Hope College, including
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: confusion surrounding his degree, as he was actually awarded the
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: bachelor's degree while he was missing. Right now, Stephen reportedly
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: said that he completed his degree after returning home, and
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Hope College declined to release any sort of academic records
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: without permission, leaving another unresolved part of the story and
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: whether it's a small part, whether they gave it to
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: him or he actually finished it. But I digress now.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Stephen did continue his education and eventually entered the field
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: in psychology, working as a psychologist and psychotherapist in the
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. He also wrote Meta Mathematical Foundations of Existence Gobdel,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Quantum God and Beyond, a book exploring subjects including mathematics, science, philosophy,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: and religion. And thankfully for him, his disappearance remained largely
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: out of the public discussion in his professional life. Now,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: this didn't stop speculation around his story moving forward. In fact,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: decades later, journalists began taking a closer look at the
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: documented story. One investigation focused on the Wisconsin Marathon T
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: shirt Stephen had with him when he returned. Now, at
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: the time, the Pavo Nurmi Marathon I believe, I said
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: that right in Iron County was the only marathon held
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. The race organizer located the results from August
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, approximately six months after Stephen disappeared. Stephen's
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: name was not on the list runners. Now it's possible
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Stephen could have purchased the T shirt, borrowed it, received
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: it from someone else, or participated under another identity. Even
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: they also searched for the name Nathan, but no runner
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: was registered under that name. Though a participant listed as
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Nat did appear, but it seemed that that person was
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: several years younger and also from Tokyo. As journalists continued
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: examining the case, they attempted to contact Stephen directly, but
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: he didn't respond. Now his interests in Stephen's disappearance continued.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Journalists also attempted to speak with people who had been
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: closest to the events in nineteen seventy eight in nineteen
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: seventy nine, and those efforts produced very few answers. Steven's
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: former roommate didn't respond to repeated interview requests, his former
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: wife made it clear that she would not discuss the disappearance.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Attempts to reconstruct it later interview with Ronald Curtis they
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: were also unsuccessful. The dean of the students, who had
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: apparently considered the possibility that Stephens staged his disappearance, had
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: died before one journalist even began investigating the case. Stephen's aunt, June,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: was still living in Great Barrington when Stephen had arrived
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: on May fifth, nineteen seventy nine, and wasn't able to
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: be contacted, and after several unsuccessful attempts to her phone,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: one journalist even traveled to Massachusetts to knock on her
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: front door, which is extremely rude in my opinion, but
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: I digress now. June did answer that door, but declined
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: to discuss what had happened and ended the conversation there.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Stephen himself remained equally unwilling to speak publicly. However, years
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: after his return, it appeared there was a possibility that
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: the full story might be told. Stephen began working with
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: a writer on a book about his experience. The project
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: was called The Disappearance of Stephen Kabaki, and promotional material
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: associated with it contained an extraordinary claim. It seemed Stephen
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: recovered his memories. Now, if true, this was huge. A
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: complete account could potentially explain where Stephen went after leaving
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: his skiing equipment near Lake Michigan, how he traveled across
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: the country, where he obtained the belongings found with him,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: and why Ronald Curtis remembered him using the name Nathan,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: and what he had been doing for that entire year. However,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: the book didn't get published.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know, but just there, I was like,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: something sounds fishy.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Oh really that whole.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Situation, like he all of a sudden got his memory back.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Let's write a book and make a whole bunch of money, right,
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know it just sounded fishy now.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Over the years, his disappearance became increasingly associated with something
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: called the Lake Michigan Triangle, which is loosely defined as
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: an area stretching between Manitowac, Wisconsin, Luddington, Michigan, and Benton Harbor.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: It's an area in the region that has accumulated a
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: collection of stories involving shipwrecks, aircrafts UFO sightings, and other
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: unexplained events. Among the sunken vessels was the Rosea Bel,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: a schooner ship that was carrying members of the House
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: of David's religious community in October of nineteen twenty one.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: The vessel left High Island carrying lumber, but it never
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: reached Benton Harbor. The overturned ship was discovered near the
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin shoreline on October twenty ninth, with severe damage, suggesting
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a collision with something now. The crew was never found
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: and no other vessel was identified as being responsible for
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: the collision. Another mystery occurred on June twenty third, nineteen
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: fifty when Northwest Orient flight two five one disappeared while
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: traveling from New York to Seattle with fifty eight people
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: on board. The aircraft made its final radio contact at
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: eleven thirteen PM over Lake Michigan. Searchers later recovered in oil,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: slick luggage, cushions, blankets, and even human remains, but the
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: main wreckage itself was never located, and the exact cause
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: of the disaster was never established. Then, on March eighth,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, hundreds of people in western Michigan reported
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: unusual objects and lights moving through the night sky. A
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: National Weather Service radar operator also detected on a explained
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: activity and told a police officer that what he was
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: observing did not resemble storms. The sites were never conclusively explained.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Stephen's story also became associated with an account from Kathy Doer,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: who described a strange experience while sailing on Lake Michigan
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: during the summer of nineteen seventy eight. According to her,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: a dense fog suddenly surrounded three sailboats that were in
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: the water. She described unusual winds, abrupt temperature changes, and
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: boats completing full rotations despite no one steering them. She
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: also claimed that she could not account for several hours
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: after returning to shore, and that the other sailors later
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: refused to discuss what had happened. These stories helped create
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: an environment in which Stephen's disappearance could be interpreted as
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: something otherworldly paranormal. Even as his case spread through webs sites, podcasts,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: television programs, and online forums, the story itself began to change.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Some versions claimed Stephen's backpack was missing during the original
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: search and mysteriously appeared later in an area police had
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: already examined. The Michigan State Police records contradict that claim,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: though the backpack was resting on top of Stephen's skis
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: when officers actually first examined the scene. Other accounts described
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: his footprints ending beside an open crevice in the ice
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: or at the edge of a cliff, even neither detail
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: appeared in the available police records. Investigators followed footprints onto
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: the frozen lake, but they did not document an open
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: hole showing where Stephen could have fallen through. The story
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: of his return also became increasingly dramatic. Some versions claimed
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Stephen awoke in a field naked somewhere. Others said he
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: suddenly appeared at his father's home. Contemporary records instead described
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: Stephen turning with clothing, money, new glasses, shoes, maps, all
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. The documented story is complicated enough
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: without all these other editions, But ultimately, there is no
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: evidence connecting Stephen's disappearance to the Lake Michigan Triangle or
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: any paranormal event. Despite the headlines and UFO abductions and
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: time travel and other sensationalized title, though that doesn't mean
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: that they aren't exactly true. There's no proof to prove
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: or disprove, though that doesn't mean they aren't true.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: There is also no proof that he deliberately staged his
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: disappearance either. At least that is there wasn't up until
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, more than forty five years after he
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: walked onto the frozen surface of Lake Michigan, Stephen finally
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: told his story. In twenty twenty five, Stephen published his
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: book The Disappearance, Conspiracy, Revolution, Revelation. The account represented a
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: version of events radically different from the story Stephen had
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: given reporters after returning to his family in nineteen seventy nine.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: According to Stephen's book, his disappearance had in fact been
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: planned he did it deliberately. This news shook the world
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: of the paranormal and the mysteries alike. He claimed that
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: during his years at Hope College, he became involved with
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: a small group of people who shared increasingly radical ideas
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: about politics, economics, religion, and society. The group eventually called
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: themselves the Nexialistic Revolutionary Front or NRF, and Stephen described
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: its members as believing a major or sorry believing that
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: major changes were needed within the systems governing America's life. Now,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: the NRF develop plan involving two separate groups. One side
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: would remain within conventional society an attempt to gain positions
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: of influence through politics, business, law, religion, and other institutions,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: while the other would disappear underground and work outside those systems.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Stephen intended to become part of that underground group. According
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: to his account, the plan required him to abandon his
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: identity and begin an entirely new life. The person known
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: as Stephen Kubaki would effectively cease to exist, allowing him
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: to assume another identity and disappear without revealing the people
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: who had helped him do it.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: What the actual shit is happening here? This is hurting
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: my brain.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: You've got like a permafrau happening at the moment.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: I know because it just doesn't make any sense to me.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: And I think that it is honestly quite rude if
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: this is what he actually did. Yeah, like his frickin
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: family was looking for him, I know, like what, like
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: he would have just put them through the freakin' ringer.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: That is horrible.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I know, you're right, it's jaw dropping that this is
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: the case.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: It kind of also makes sense why no one would
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: want to talk about it either, because they're just pissed. Probably.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So now, on February eighteenth, nineteen seventy eight, Stephen
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: put his plan into action. He traveled to Lake Michigan
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: shoreline near Saugatuck and left his ski poles and backpack
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: behind and sorry, skis and ski poles with backpack behind.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: And it seemed that the carefully arranged equipment that police
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: discovered was not the remains of an interrupted ski trip,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and according to Stephen, it was deliberately placed there as
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: part of his disappearance. He then walked onto the frozen lake,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: creating the trail of footprints that investigators would struggle to
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: explain because, if you remember, they led nowhere, they couldn't
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: find where they went. There was no circling back, nothing. Now.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Stephen's account also provided a remarkably simple exit explanation for
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: how those footprints seem to end without another trail returning
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: to shore. Stephen claimed that after walking onto the lake,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: he turned back and walked backwards back to the shore,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: placing his feet back inside the same prints he had
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: already made.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, that would be pretty difficult, though to do it would.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Be However, you have to consider what condition are the
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: tracks in that they found. You're on an open lake, wind,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: maybe a little bit more snow, So can you fully
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: determine that he hadn't placed his foot feet back inside
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: those tracks? Probably not even sun melting the snow ever
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: so slightly, wind filling it in it snows a bit
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: more a frost on an extra cold night, filling it
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: with more horror frost inside. Yeah, it's highly likely that
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: you could do that and not be identified. So by
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: retriacing his own steps, Stephen returned to land without leaving
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: an obvious second trail. Then, a vehicle was supposed to
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: be waiting for him to take him away, but the
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: car apparently failed to start, which forced a bit of
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: a change in the plan. So Stephen eventually obtained a
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: bus ticket and from there traveled south to Mexico, leaving
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: behind his family, friends, his college, and his identity. From there,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: he began calling himself Nathan T. Stanfield. And now, if
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: you remember, when Ronald Curtis picked up a hitchhiker near
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Pittsfield on May fifth, nineteen seventy nine, he said the
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: man identified himself as Nathan. Curtis also insisted that the
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: passenger appeared to remember traveling from San Francisco to Massachusetts
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: and never mentioned awakening in a field with fourteen months
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: missing from his memory. Stephen acknowledged that Curtis had been
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: telling the truth. That encounter was real. He had that conversation.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: He just didn't think it would be rational or sorry
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: part to the story. So we didn't rationalize needing to
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: lie to this random person driving him.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: What the actual fuck, Stephen? Like, what is he doing?
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: According to Stephen, he had spent the missing fourteen months
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: traveling and living under his new identity. His book describes journeys,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: political activities, secret missions, relationships, and experiences extending far beyond
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: the story he originally gave reporters. Eventually, however, Stephen decided
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: it was time to return. When he arrived at his
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: aunt June's home in Great Barrington in May of nineteen
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: seventy nine. He faced an immediate problem. Explaining where he
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: had been would require explaining why he disappeared, and doing
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: that could expose the people he was helping and who
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: had helped him. So Stephen chose another option. He claimed
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: he couldn't remember. According to this account, a fourteen and
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: a half month period of m n quote unquote had
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: became the defining feature of his disappearance, and it was
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: all a lie. Stephen deliberately told reporters that he had
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: lost his memory because he wanted to protect the identity
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: of the people involved in this plan. Some of those people,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: he said, remained his friends for more than forty five years.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Even when finally writing his books, Stephen continued protecting them
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: by changing names and identifying details. Now there is something
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: interesting about his story that some have latched onto see.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Stephen also described experiencing what he considered to be a
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: very profound psychological and spiritual event while standing on Lake Michigan.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: He wrote about entering an intense disassociative state and experiencing
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: what he interpreted as another dimension inhabited by beings of light.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: Stephen's background as a psychologist, influenced by how he attempted
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: to understand the experience, and it all combined into this
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: interesting bit. I haven't read much of it because I
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: haven't read his book fully yet, but he discussed it
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Parsley partly through the language of disassociation and psychology in
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: that funky language, being a professional in the field, while
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: he also connected it to his beliefs and spirituality and
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: consciousness and the possibility of even a multi verse. So
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: he kind of goes off and those claims, well, they
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: just remain personal. They can't be verified in any way,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: shape or form. People hallucinate in many different ways, and
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's all what happened to him. Now.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: The same distinction applies to the larger story Stephen eventually told.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: His explanation answers many of the questions surrounding his disappearance,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: but it remains his account. The existence and activities of
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: the Nexialistic Revolutionary Front, the involvement of other people, and
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: many of the events Stephen described, well, they've not been verified.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: But most importantly, the most important fact we have is
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: that Stephen admitted that he fabricated this amnesia story for
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: nearly half a century. Stephen and his disappearance have been
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: presented as a story of a college student walking onto
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: a frozen lake, then vanishing without explanation, and then returning
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: fourteen months later, unable to be remembering where he was.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: It's been linked to UFOs, time travel, other dimensions, the paranormal,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: the supernatural, and now well, it seems like it was
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: all just a hoax. He had not accidentally disappeared. He
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: had not spent fourteen months wandering across the country without
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: knowing who he was. Either. Stephen Kubaki disappeared because he
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: wanted to, at least that's what he wants us to believe.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Who's to say he isn't fabricating this story in order
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: to cover up something else. Maybe he doesn't actually even remember,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: and his book is simply a way for, as you said,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: for him to make money, or maybe it's a way
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: for him to get people off his case and no
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: longer do these interviews and the so called truth. He
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: still can't remember. It's hard to say, but according to him,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: it was all fake. And that's what we know of
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: the story of Stephen Kubaki.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: This is some of the most bizarre shit I think
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: I've ever heard.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: I told you there was twists and turns. And that's
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: actually why I'm doing this story now, is because he's
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: come out and said all this. Yeah, and it's like, Okay,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: maybe there was a bit of a crime committed here
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: with these lies, a.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Crime to definitely a crime to people's emotions. I'm curious
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: if he ever told his family and stuff, were people
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: close to him the truth, you know, prior to the book.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to say. And I do have to say,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I want to read this book. I need to get
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: my hands on a copy and read it.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and he probably is making like a pretty
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: penny from it, I'm assuming probably.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: If I'm going to be honest, I'm going to try
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: and not pay for the book. M I just go
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: rent to the library or something.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I don't know, because the thing is, I
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: don't feel like people would super be on his back anymore,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: you know, trying to get this story right.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of part of it. If he comes
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: out and if he's actually trying to just get people
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: away from him and just leave him alone, and he
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: throws out a false story, just read my book. There
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: you go.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Just whatever, Okay, but prior to him releasing the book,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: was do you think he was actively getting like people
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: pursuing him still for the story a lot?
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Probably? Okay, it was a very very well known mystery.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean I guess I just kind of
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: figured so much time it passed, like you think it
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: kind of.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: When it comes to UFO, supernatural, those kinds of stories,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: those mysteries that kind of cross into the the weird,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: you might be able to say they don't tend to fade,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: especially in the new age of the Internet and everything.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: It's so accessible for people to research, to read, to find.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: If anything, it gets an occult like following and it
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: only grows over time.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I kind of honestly felt like I was
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: thinking with some sort of alien UFO something.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: To be honest, that's what you're thinking.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Because how he just well that's what I had thought.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's what.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Wow, I think I don't really necessarily think that, but
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: just how his footprints went out, you know, two hundred
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: yards or whatever and then poofing. Yeah, I'm like, holy shit,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: something just grabbed him.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's what he wanted you to think.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: Is one of two reasons. I mean again, I haven't
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: read the book. He might say in the book one
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: of two things he's probably trying to get you to
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: think was a some sort of weird disappearance in the
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Lake Michigan triangle, or b that he did through the
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: ice in some fashion.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: Huh.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: Well, and so this book too, obviously he's still protecting
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: people and such. So it's not even saying what he
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: was doing.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: I think it is saying some of the stuff he
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: was doing, but it's not giving identifying features so people
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: can track it, if that makes sense.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: But again, I haven't read the book.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: I know certain see I feel like probably what's in
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: the book would be true. But I also feel like
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: it's a little bit odd the timing of it. I
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: don't know why. I just feel like it's a bit odd.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, this whole thing is a bit odd.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: It's a very odd story.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: I was sitting here the whole time, like I feel
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: like I almost have a headache because I was just like,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: what the shit, just like frowning.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: You had a perma fround that entire time. You were
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: like intensely glaring at me trying to figure this out.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just I was having to focus really
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: hard because it wasn't making sense in my head.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Does it make sense now? No?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: All right, fair enough, Well let us know what you
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: guys think. I'm curious to see where your head's at.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: And if you've read the book, like I said, we haven't,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna get my hands on it here eventually
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: I got to give it a read. But we appreciate
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: you here. We're an independent podcast, hosted, written, researched all
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: of it, hundredtle lonesome with you here by our side.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: If you want to check out our social links or
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: any other website or whatever we got, it's all in
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: the description of this podcast. You can go check out
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Patreon for example, and like those amazing people we shouted
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: out at the beginning of this episode, they got ads,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: free exclusive content, a lot of cool stuff over there.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: I might recommend you check it out. And if you
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: want to give us a review, that goes a long
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: ways with us being independent. Well, with that all being said,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to stop here and I'm going to
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: throw you over it in Nicole.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: With that said, stay wicked thing, and
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: Oh