Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Emily Miller discusses Morocco, Navigation, and Rebelle Rally

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Emily Miller discusses Morocco, Navigation, and Rebelle Rally · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
0:09
Speaker 1: senior editor Ashley Jordano, and I'm here in the field
0:13
Speaker 1: at the BC Overland Rally in Merritt, British Columbia with
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Speaker 1: a very special guest, Emily Miller, founder of the Rebel Rally.
0:21
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me for this podcast.
0:24
Speaker 1: I know we've alluded to the Rebel Rally and some
0:26
Speaker 1: other podcast episodes. Scott interviewed rachelle Croft Anina Barlow, and
0:31
Speaker 1: we did another podcast after the most recent Rebel Rally.
0:35
Speaker 1: But I am so stoked to have you here to
0:37
Speaker 1: give us a more intimate look at the Rebel and
0:40
Speaker 1: yourself and why you founded it and what it's all about.
0:43
Speaker 2: So I have fun watching the last one. I think
0:46
Speaker 2: Matt Scott. You and Matt had just finished it and
0:48
Speaker 2: we're talking to Scott. It's really fun to be on
0:50
Speaker 2: the other side watching it, hearing what you had to say.
0:53
Speaker 1: Oh nice, that's awesome.
0:55
Speaker 3: This content is brought to you by Overland Journal, our
0:57
Speaker 3: premium quality print publication. Magazine was founded in two thousand
1:01
Speaker 3: and six with the goal of providing independent equipment and
1:05
Speaker 3: vehicle reviews, along with the most stunning adventures and photography.
1:09
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1:12
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1:16
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1:37
Speaker 2: We want to come back, right, of course.
1:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. It was good because I think
1:42
Speaker 1: Matt and I were both like, there's some questions that
1:45
Speaker 1: we were asking each other on that podcast, and we're like,
1:47
Speaker 1: it would be nice to have Emily.
1:48
Speaker 2: I heard that a couple of times.
1:50
Speaker 1: Yeah. So now we're here, So it's great. But maybe
1:52
Speaker 1: we'll dive first into for those who don't know what
1:55
Speaker 1: the Rebel Rally is, maybe you can explain what it is,
1:58
Speaker 1: Where does it take place, so what does it involve.
2:01
Speaker 2: The Rebel Rally is the longest competitive off road rally
2:04
Speaker 2: in the United States, and it just so happens to
2:06
Speaker 2: be for women. Actually, this year. It's going to start
2:09
Speaker 2: back in Lake Tahoe. Last year we were at the
2:11
Speaker 2: hoover Dale Coast through Nevada, California. We've touched Arizona. Takes
2:15
Speaker 2: place on primarily public land. It is ten days. It's
2:19
Speaker 2: eight days of scored competition. It's no GPS, no cell phones,
2:23
Speaker 2: just maps that we make. You don't even bring your
2:26
Speaker 2: own maps. You just show up with a compass and
2:29
Speaker 2: you know, some pencils and some patients and a lot
2:32
Speaker 2: of electrolytes. Eight days of literally using traditional navigation skills
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Speaker 2: and then also traditional rally skills, which is using a roadbook.
2:42
Speaker 2: It is long, it's hard, it's hot, it's cold, it's
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Speaker 2: high elevations, low elevations, every type of terrain. But interestingly,
2:51
Speaker 2: it's in a stock manufacturer vehicle. It's not in racecar.
2:54
Speaker 2: I've always said the vehicles in your driveway are more
2:56
Speaker 2: capable than you think. And so it's a team of
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Speaker 2: two and navigator. You can switch rolls and your car.
3:03
Speaker 2: That's it. You're on your own. What type of vehicles
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Speaker 2: are usually rallied in, Well, we have two classes. We
3:08
Speaker 2: have four x four and what we call X cross
3:10
Speaker 2: because the word crossover I don't think sounds cool enough
3:13
Speaker 2: for some of these cars, because they're great cars. And
3:16
Speaker 2: so what's typical are let's say, Jeep like Jeep, Rubicons, Toyota, Tacomas,
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Speaker 2: four Runners, Gladiators, land rovers. We have in the X
3:27
Speaker 2: cross class we have everything from Porsches, Soubrews, Mitsubishi, Kia's
3:33
Speaker 2: pretty wide variety of cars, but they're really unmodified vehicles
3:37
Speaker 2: or just minimally modified vehicles. And then we also have
3:40
Speaker 2: electric vehicles. So we started that three years ago now,
3:43
Speaker 2: and we launched it with the Rivian the R one T,
3:45
Speaker 2: which was really cool. Last year we had and also
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Speaker 2: the Volkswagen ID four, and then this year we have
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Speaker 2: two Rivians returning and possibly some surprise avs.
3:56
Speaker 1: Why was it important to you to highlight the stock
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Speaker 1: vehicle in the rally?
4:01
Speaker 2: I raced cars for a guy named Rod Hall, who's
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Speaker 2: just a legend in off road racing and also in
4:08
Speaker 2: four by fours, and he really promoted stock manufacturer vehicles.
4:12
Speaker 2: He was really a champion of these stable platforms that
4:16
Speaker 2: all this research has been done on them, all this
4:19
Speaker 2: great engineering has gone into them. He's always said, you
4:22
Speaker 2: know the mark of a great driver is that you
4:24
Speaker 2: can pilot a stock manufacturer vehicle without breaking it, and
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Speaker 2: you need to do that first, and so I really
4:30
Speaker 2: felt that that's important. Also, not everybody wants to or
4:35
Speaker 2: even can afford to support a race truck. Race trucks
4:38
Speaker 2: are really expensive, they're really temperamental. It's constant work in progress.
4:43
Speaker 2: The vehicles that we have are already so great, So
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Speaker 2: I really wanted it to be for stock manufacturer vehicles.
4:48
Speaker 2: I also wanted women to feel like they could participate,
4:51
Speaker 2: that they didn't have to you know, they could do
4:53
Speaker 2: this incredible journey and they could be part of it,
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Speaker 2: but not feel like they had to go spend you know,
5:00
Speaker 2: hundred plus thousand dollars on a race truck. You know,
5:02
Speaker 2: people drive the vehicle that you know, they drive to
5:05
Speaker 2: work every day in the rally and then they drive
5:07
Speaker 2: it home hopefully if they drive it well. But yeah,
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Speaker 2: I think it's really important because they're so good, you know,
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Speaker 2: and they're so capable.
5:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know that really well because of your
5:16
Speaker 1: background as a racer and a rallier, and you were
5:20
Speaker 1: the first solo woman to complete the Vegas Arena race.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was the first woman to solo that
5:26
Speaker 2: race and then I did it again when it was
5:28
Speaker 2: a three day rally, and that was awesome. I really
5:31
Speaker 2: like longer competitions. You know, short ones are great, but
5:35
Speaker 2: really like pushing yourself over day after day is really,
5:39
Speaker 2: I think, kind of what I was made for. And
5:41
Speaker 2: it also it's like a strategy. Rod had a statement
5:43
Speaker 2: he said, you know, you want to win as slowly
5:45
Speaker 2: as you can. You still want to win, but as
5:48
Speaker 2: slowly as you can, and it's true. So it's kind
5:50
Speaker 2: of like this chess game of strategy. You know over
5:53
Speaker 2: long distance.
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Speaker 1: Races, right, you saw that in Baja one thousand wins
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Speaker 1: and multiple post finishes, and you participated in some rallies
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Speaker 1: in Morocco as well. What is it on those long
6:06
Speaker 1: distance rallies or races, Like where do you get the
6:09
Speaker 1: motivation to push beyond what you think you're capable of?
6:13
Speaker 1: Because I see that with you in different forms like
6:17
Speaker 1: on the rally or racing or rallying, Like, where does
6:20
Speaker 1: that come from? How do you beat the fatigue and
6:23
Speaker 1: go into that next phase of push?
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Speaker 2: You know, I think it's because you can see the
6:27
Speaker 2: light at the end of the tunnel, you know, you
6:29
Speaker 2: know that there's a stopping point so I say, like,
6:31
Speaker 2: you can do anything for ten days. You know, you
6:33
Speaker 2: can do anything for fourteen days. You know. I know
6:35
Speaker 2: it's not going to last forever. Now. It might be
6:37
Speaker 2: different if somebody said, Okay, well your rally's going to
6:40
Speaker 2: last like two years, you know. But I do. I
6:42
Speaker 2: think you can do anything that you set your mind to.
6:44
Speaker 2: I also am pretty competitive person, but I'm competitive with myself.
6:49
Speaker 2: I really like to dig down de examine the task
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Speaker 2: at hand, and I always feel like that competition is
6:55
Speaker 2: within myself. I need to do the best job I
6:57
Speaker 2: can until the very last second. I don't know where
7:00
Speaker 2: it comes from. Maybe for my mom. You know when
7:03
Speaker 2: I was a kid. She taught me how to play
7:04
Speaker 2: cards when I was about four, so she'd have somebody
7:07
Speaker 2: play against and she never let me win, and she
7:09
Speaker 2: just made me keep playing. Yeah, I think it's just
7:12
Speaker 2: a termination, you know. I hate to quit. I really
7:15
Speaker 2: hate So I don't know if that.
7:16
Speaker 1: Really is Yeah, it definitely does.
7:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you do you have to dig down deep.
7:20
Speaker 2: I mean, the days are long. But I think when
7:23
Speaker 2: you have a challenge and you have a competition, if
7:25
Speaker 2: you're a competitive person, you see the task at hand,
7:28
Speaker 2: so you don't give up, or you don't stop until
7:31
Speaker 2: it's completed.
7:32
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I was going to ask you about your childhood,
7:35
Speaker 1: if there were any indications or your teenagers as to
7:38
Speaker 1: what was going to happen next or in your future,
7:41
Speaker 1: or the Rebel Rally, or teaching women to drive and
7:44
Speaker 1: all those things.
7:45
Speaker 2: I think there are just a number of things in
7:47
Speaker 2: my life that led me on the path. And also,
7:50
Speaker 2: I always feel like wherever a door has closed, a
7:53
Speaker 2: window has opened, and I've gone through the window. You know,
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Speaker 2: I'm more afraid to say no than to say yes
8:01
Speaker 2: to something, And I think that's something about the rebel.
8:03
Speaker 2: I think the women that you see who do the
8:04
Speaker 2: rebel are more afraid. They're kind of nervous to do it,
8:07
Speaker 2: but they're more afraid to not do it than.
8:10
Speaker 1: To do it. When you initially were going to start
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Speaker 1: the Rebel Rally, what were some examples of people saying
8:17
Speaker 1: no to you and you jumping through that window. I'm
8:20
Speaker 1: sure there are quite a few.
8:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a lot. First, I called a race
8:23
Speaker 2: director that I've known for a long time I used
8:25
Speaker 2: to race in this series, asked him to get involved,
8:28
Speaker 2: to be involved in the competition, and he said, no way,
8:31
Speaker 2: just because you'll never pull it off. You will never
8:32
Speaker 2: hold a long distance rally in America. Why permitting a yeah?
8:37
Speaker 2: And I tried to explain it's not a race for speed,
8:39
Speaker 2: and he said, I don't care if you use the
8:41
Speaker 2: word rally. You will never pull this off. So I
8:43
Speaker 2: knew that we needed to educate land management agencies about
8:47
Speaker 2: what rally is, because rally in other parts of the
8:49
Speaker 2: world is really popular, but not in America. Really, they
8:52
Speaker 2: only think race for speed, you know, tearing up the landscape.
8:55
Speaker 2: You know, I knew that that wasn't the way it is.
8:57
Speaker 2: Another one my course director, Jimmy Lewis. You know, Jimmy's
9:00
Speaker 2: a legend and a legend in the moto world and
9:03
Speaker 2: in the rally world. You know, Rod had got in
9:06
Speaker 2: Parkinson's disease and he was helping me with the course,
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Speaker 2: and I knew that I needed somebody who was like Rod,
9:13
Speaker 2: who you know, knew these trails and knew the backcountry
9:16
Speaker 2: because I couldn't do it by myself. So I approached
9:19
Speaker 2: Jimmy and I thought, there's no way he's going to
9:21
Speaker 2: say yes, no way. We had worked together on different
9:24
Speaker 2: events like King and the motos and he said, Emily,
9:27
Speaker 2: there's no way you're going to be able to do this,
9:29
Speaker 2: but if you are able to do it, I want
9:31
Speaker 2: to be involved. I said, well, I'll give you a call.
9:33
Speaker 2: So I gave him a call and said, okay, we
9:35
Speaker 2: can do it. But yeah, that happened a lot. Doesn't
9:37
Speaker 2: happen really anymore, but it really did happen a lot.
9:42
Speaker 2: And the good thing is is I knew I own
9:45
Speaker 2: a sports marketing company and I've produced a lot of
9:48
Speaker 2: really tough to pull off events. You know, I worked
9:51
Speaker 2: a lot with Red Bull too, and they always do
9:52
Speaker 2: these crazy, great productions and you know, they come up
9:55
Speaker 2: with a crazy idea and then they make it happen,
9:58
Speaker 2: and that was so fun to be a part of.
10:00
Speaker 2: I knew that it wasn't illegal to do what we
10:03
Speaker 2: were doing. It was just going to be a lot
10:05
Speaker 2: of hard work. For anybody who knows me, I'm not
10:07
Speaker 2: afraid of working hard, and so yeah, so we overcame
10:10
Speaker 2: that how did you approach the land management crew to
10:14
Speaker 2: get this going? What we did the first year is
10:17
Speaker 2: we said, let's get routes that we know have been
10:20
Speaker 2: raced on before, have had events on before, and we
10:23
Speaker 2: can string them together into a long distance route, because
10:27
Speaker 2: you know, our routes are usually about twenty five hundred kilometers.
10:30
Speaker 2: You know, they're long distances. What I did is I
10:32
Speaker 2: started about three years early putting together the plan, and
10:36
Speaker 2: then I started fifteen to eighteen months prior to going
10:39
Speaker 2: and sitting down with land managers for the Bureau of
10:43
Speaker 2: Land Management, US Forest Service National Parks and educating them
10:47
Speaker 2: about what this is but also what it isn't. And
10:50
Speaker 2: we walked in with an, you know, like a eighteen
10:53
Speaker 2: page operations plan and we hadn't even planned the course
10:57
Speaker 2: and saying here's what we're going to do here, here's
11:00
Speaker 2: what it is, here's our safety, here's our communications, here
11:04
Speaker 2: is how we are going to manage it. And every
11:06
Speaker 2: time they said well what about this, we had an answer.
11:10
Speaker 2: So fortunately, from doing producing big events, I knew what
11:13
Speaker 2: all the sticking points are, so I could go in early.
11:16
Speaker 2: We pre anticipated. So what we did is we did
11:19
Speaker 2: a lot of legwork. I think that a lot of
11:21
Speaker 2: times land managers or land management agencies get a bad route,
11:25
Speaker 2: but they have a lot of constituents to answer to,
11:28
Speaker 2: and not everybody wants vehicle recreation out on our trails,
11:32
Speaker 2: which is unfortunate. By doing that work early and we're
11:36
Speaker 2: getting to know the land managers, we were able to
11:38
Speaker 2: build really good relationships. And so I feel really fortunate
11:41
Speaker 2: that a lot of the people in the land management agencies,
11:44
Speaker 2: that's how they get out and you check the trails
11:46
Speaker 2: or in vehicles, you know, they have to get out
11:48
Speaker 2: into these remote areas. We help them. We will call
11:51
Speaker 2: and say, hey, there are signs down will drop pens,
11:54
Speaker 2: here's a problem area that they might not know about
11:57
Speaker 2: because they have so many miles, you know, so many
12:00
Speaker 2: kilometers of trail and track to keep up what we
12:03
Speaker 2: just see ourselves as a good steward. We need to
12:06
Speaker 2: be a good steward and a good partner to the agencies.
12:09
Speaker 2: But it took a long time. We tried the first
12:12
Speaker 2: year to go down a really famous trail and Death Valley,
12:15
Speaker 2: and Death Valley said no way, because the last rally
12:18
Speaker 2: that had been there made a lot of promises and
12:20
Speaker 2: didn't keep them and caused a lot of damage. And
12:22
Speaker 2: so we had to prove ourselves. So we took four
12:26
Speaker 2: years till we could go into Death Valley, and then
12:29
Speaker 2: last year, on our sixth year, we were able to
12:31
Speaker 2: do this trail. It takes patience.
12:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, that trust relationship is over time, working with them
12:37
Speaker 1: for multiple years and proving yourselves and committing to tread
12:42
Speaker 1: Lately principles, which I know that you're really passionate about.
12:45
Speaker 1: On the rally and off the rally as well.
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Speaker 2: We have a responsibility, but we also can never let up.
12:50
Speaker 2: We can never take it for granted.
12:52
Speaker 1: You know.
12:52
Speaker 2: We always have to stay in front of them, and
12:54
Speaker 2: people turn over as well, so we constantly have to
12:58
Speaker 2: go back to the agencies times reintroduce ourselves.
13:01
Speaker 1: So this event takes place in the Southwest, which is
13:04
Speaker 1: the perfect place for it. Scenery, roads, everything, it's beautiful
13:09
Speaker 1: and the inspiration from it came from your rally experience
13:12
Speaker 1: in Morocco. Can you speak to that a little bit.
13:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. I would say it's like a combination of all
13:17
Speaker 2: my experiences because I love the West. I competed in
13:21
Speaker 2: the Rally di Gazelle in Morocco and it was really
13:25
Speaker 2: interesting because we were the only American team when we
13:28
Speaker 2: went over. It was conducted in French. It was really
13:31
Speaker 2: a cool experience and I had been wanting to compete
13:34
Speaker 2: in the FI World Championships. A cross country rally, but
13:37
Speaker 2: that's a really big undertaking. I had family members who
13:40
Speaker 2: live in Africa, who lived in Africa and they had
13:43
Speaker 2: seen the end of the rally and they said, hey,
13:45
Speaker 2: you need to know about this, so you should go
13:47
Speaker 2: do this. And it was at the time I was
13:48
Speaker 2: racing for Rod and so he said, yeah, you should
13:51
Speaker 2: do it, and that'll be great experience for what you
13:54
Speaker 2: want to accomplish. Over there, wenton did it. It was
13:57
Speaker 2: similar in length, which are what you'll find is the
14:01
Speaker 2: cross country rallies are usually seven, eight, nine, ten day events,
14:06
Speaker 2: so that's pretty typical. But it was really interesting. It
14:09
Speaker 2: was shortest distance. Literally you had to drive a straight
14:12
Speaker 2: line over everything in your path. If there's a big rock,
14:15
Speaker 2: you have to just go just around it or go
14:17
Speaker 2: right over it. It was really different we worked. I
14:20
Speaker 2: thought it was a really great experience and you didn't
14:23
Speaker 2: have to be a pro racer. You didn't have to
14:24
Speaker 2: have a race car, and it's very slow. You didn't
14:27
Speaker 2: need to know how to drive fast. We were to
14:29
Speaker 2: bring a lot of American teams over there and then
14:32
Speaker 2: help them with their marketing. Really it was pretty cool
14:35
Speaker 2: because we took a lot of teams that didn't come
14:37
Speaker 2: from a racing background and they did really well, like
14:40
Speaker 2: Michelle Croft, Rebecca Donaghye, the howens. You know, a lot
14:44
Speaker 2: of great people in the industry, but not necessarily from racing,
14:49
Speaker 2: and some people not from the industry at all, because
14:52
Speaker 2: driving and navigating your skills. Anyone, you know, if they
14:55
Speaker 2: just needed to take the time and learn, like the
14:57
Speaker 2: really the great foundation of eight skills. And then we
15:01
Speaker 2: started the Rebel and we actually put it six months
15:04
Speaker 2: off the Gazelle, So if you wanted to compete in both,
15:08
Speaker 2: the Gazelle's a big undertaking, it's expensive, it's a long
15:11
Speaker 2: period of time, so we put the route our rally
15:14
Speaker 2: in the fall. But I wanted to do something in
15:16
Speaker 2: the United States because it's a big stretch to go
15:20
Speaker 2: from never having competed. It's expensive, it's long, you're in
15:25
Speaker 2: a formed place. It's really cool to see this. You
15:28
Speaker 2: can rent, you can rent or you can ship your
15:31
Speaker 2: truck over, which means being without your truck for about
15:33
Speaker 2: four months. That's why renting is great. I wanted people
15:36
Speaker 2: also to have a rally in the US because honestly,
15:40
Speaker 2: our terrain is the greatest. You know. I've been to
15:43
Speaker 2: a lot of countries. I've seen so much terrain, but
15:46
Speaker 2: our terrain in the West is off the hook. To
15:50
Speaker 2: think that you can go from Death Valley to you know,
15:52
Speaker 2: Mount Whitney within such a short distance as the crow
15:55
Speaker 2: flies and the variety of terrain is out of this world.
16:00
Speaker 2: And I wanted a different format. I wanted to make
16:02
Speaker 2: a really interesting competition, but really fun driving, you know,
16:05
Speaker 2: not just just driving straight. It was aol. It's a
16:08
Speaker 2: cool challenge to do that, but I really wanted it
16:10
Speaker 2: to be more like fun rally driving. And I also
16:14
Speaker 2: just think the rebella we call it a traflon of rally,
16:16
Speaker 2: So there are multiple formats because I want people who
16:20
Speaker 2: do the rebel to come out of that rally and
16:22
Speaker 2: have like really good skills and feel like they can
16:25
Speaker 2: go take on whatever challenge they want to take on,
16:28
Speaker 2: like yeah, yeah, or other rallies or in life or
16:32
Speaker 2: in work, you know, or they want to go do
16:34
Speaker 2: the Gazelle, or they want to go do the rally jamial,
16:37
Speaker 2: or they want to you know, go do the Karta rally.
16:39
Speaker 2: That they have that foundation and it's fun to listen
16:43
Speaker 2: to the competitors who've done that and see them get
16:47
Speaker 2: that experience.
16:48
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17:32
Speaker 1: So for our podcast listeners, what are some tips and
17:36
Speaker 1: tricks that they can implement right away to improve their
17:38
Speaker 1: driving skills?
17:39
Speaker 2: Turn off your phone, put your eyes down the road,
17:41
Speaker 2: look through your corners, think about the line you're picking,
17:44
Speaker 2: and manage your throttle. You know, really work on being
17:48
Speaker 2: smooth on your throttle and your brain. Stop driving and drive.
17:52
Speaker 2: Put it into manual. You know, unless you're driving a manual,
17:55
Speaker 2: put it in a manual, lode, use your gears, feel
17:57
Speaker 2: your car, check every button on your car and every
18:01
Speaker 2: light on your dashboard, and make sure you understand what
18:03
Speaker 2: it means. You know, get to know your own vehicle.
18:05
Speaker 2: I think that there's a lot people can do, even
18:08
Speaker 2: to train for driving off road better they can do
18:11
Speaker 2: on the pavement because throttle control, line choice, and eyeplacement
18:14
Speaker 2: is it a fundamental skill whether you're on pavement or
18:17
Speaker 2: whether you have a lower attraction situation. Also, you know classes,
18:21
Speaker 2: there are a lot of great classes. There are a
18:23
Speaker 2: lot of great instructors. People can go on our website
18:25
Speaker 2: and go right to Rebel you to our training page,
18:28
Speaker 2: and we have a list of trainers that we know
18:31
Speaker 2: that have great programs all across the country from the Northeast, Pacific, Northwest, Arizona, DC,
18:40
Speaker 2: and California. So join a formal draft club, start by
18:44
Speaker 2: the simple things. You know. You don't have to take
18:47
Speaker 2: a class to become more present with your vehicle. I
18:50
Speaker 2: always say, too, you're either reinforcing good or you're reinforcing bad,
18:54
Speaker 2: not anywhere in between. Really, So you really present when.
18:57
Speaker 1: You're driving I have found throttle control to be one
19:01
Speaker 1: of the most effective means of improving my driving. And
19:04
Speaker 1: I learned that from rachelle Kroft, which she probably learned
19:07
Speaker 1: it from you. I think she did. She said she did. Yeah,
19:10
Speaker 1: it made a huge difference. Treating your vehicle like your
19:13
Speaker 1: dancings and you want to be nice and smooth instead
19:16
Speaker 1: of kind of blasting over everything. It makes a big difference.
19:20
Speaker 2: It does. I do say that it should be like
19:22
Speaker 2: a dance. And you can also really calm your nerves
19:27
Speaker 2: and by literally a smooth throttle you get into a
19:30
Speaker 2: tense situation in sand ins. If you just smooth out
19:33
Speaker 2: your throttle, you'll find like, oh, I need to calm down,
19:35
Speaker 2: and I'll calm my throttle down. Well, if you just
19:37
Speaker 2: calm your throttle down, it'll calm your emotions downce really
19:41
Speaker 2: an important skill.
19:42
Speaker 1: Do you find that a lot of women say, I
19:44
Speaker 1: really want to do the rebel, but I'm intimidated by
19:48
Speaker 1: the vehicle or the driving or navigating. What do you say?
19:52
Speaker 1: What do you say to that? Cause I kind of
19:53
Speaker 1: feel that way. I'm like, I don't think my driving
19:55
Speaker 1: is good enough to be able to compete, or the
19:57
Speaker 1: mornings are super early, and I'm afraid that I'm on
20:00
Speaker 1: a morning for zille like sleeping.
20:02
Speaker 2: And we have quite a few women who say, oh,
20:05
Speaker 2: I'm not ready, I need to be better at this.
20:07
Speaker 2: Oh I want to train longer. But sometimes you don't
20:09
Speaker 2: really even know what you're training for. I just say, like,
20:12
Speaker 2: go to the website, read those skills. Rate yourself on
20:14
Speaker 2: a scale of one to five. You know, if you're
20:16
Speaker 2: a three, you know, dive in, you know, or if
20:18
Speaker 2: you're not a three, go learn those skills and dive
20:20
Speaker 2: in anyway. Rachelle Croft has a great statement that I
20:24
Speaker 2: always use. Start somewhere. You are probably better than you think.
20:27
Speaker 2: What I hear a lot from women is they really
20:31
Speaker 2: doubt themselves their skills, or they don't think their skills
20:34
Speaker 2: are as good as I think they are. You know,
20:36
Speaker 2: you know, I see men who have a lot more
20:38
Speaker 2: confidence in their skills. They also don't see a mistake
20:42
Speaker 2: as a failure, and I see women. And this is
20:45
Speaker 2: not all women. It's just I've gotten to coach thousands
20:48
Speaker 2: of people to drive off of I stop counting at
20:51
Speaker 2: about five thousand people, and so I've seen the differences
20:53
Speaker 2: between men and women. When I coach them. Really, it's
20:56
Speaker 2: very interesting to see women make a mistake and they
21:00
Speaker 2: dwell on it because they feel like it was a failure.
21:03
Speaker 2: But it's really just a chance to learn. You know,
21:05
Speaker 2: we're not supposed to be it's perfect. It's something we've
21:07
Speaker 2: never done before. We've only done a little bit. I know, crazy, huh.
21:11
Speaker 2: If I could get women to just have a little
21:13
Speaker 2: bit more confidence in the skills that they already have,
21:17
Speaker 2: just self talk telling me, you know, tell yourself that
21:20
Speaker 2: you know you have the skill, or you can learn
21:23
Speaker 2: the skill. But I do find that women tend to
21:26
Speaker 2: be better than they give themselves credit for, in fact,
21:29
Speaker 2: often a lot better in class.
21:31
Speaker 1: You know.
21:31
Speaker 2: I coached for a lot of years with Rod, and
21:34
Speaker 2: we would run about fifty people a week through class. Women.
21:37
Speaker 2: If we had women even show up for class, we'd
21:40
Speaker 2: have twenty four people per class, almost always all male,
21:43
Speaker 2: and it was open to men and women. But very
21:45
Speaker 2: few people signed up, even though they had an opportunity
21:48
Speaker 2: through their work to come to class. But the women
21:51
Speaker 2: who did come to class, they'd stand kind of in
21:53
Speaker 2: the back the first day and just listen, not say much,
21:56
Speaker 2: really intimidated often, but then they'd listen really well. So
22:00
Speaker 2: the second day their driving skills were great. Everybody in
22:03
Speaker 2: class always loved it when women were in class because
22:06
Speaker 2: they listened well, and they followed instruction well, and they
22:09
Speaker 2: just wanted to follow the rules, you know. But that's
22:11
Speaker 2: one reason why I wanted to start the Rebel is
22:13
Speaker 2: because I knew that if we opened up class, or
22:17
Speaker 2: we opened up Rebel to anyone, we have a lot
22:20
Speaker 2: of men sign up. I know that because I have
22:22
Speaker 2: usually at least, you know, a couple of men each
22:24
Speaker 2: week call and say, hey, when are you know you're
22:26
Speaker 2: going to let men compete? Or when are you going
22:28
Speaker 2: to do a rebel format for men? And then I
22:31
Speaker 2: knew that maybe one or two teams of women would
22:33
Speaker 2: sign up, just like it is in a lot of
22:35
Speaker 2: motorsport type events, and we wouldn't get anywhere. And so yeah,
22:39
Speaker 2: women are great drivers and navigators, better than they give
22:43
Speaker 2: themselves credit for it.
22:44
Speaker 1: How do you think you switched that in your brain
22:46
Speaker 1: because you were talking about positive self talk or reinforcing that,
22:49
Speaker 1: Like what goes on in your brain? Because mine it's
22:52
Speaker 1: always been this way where if I make a mistake,
22:54
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is an utter failure. On the
22:57
Speaker 1: first try. It's something I've never done. Why is this?
23:00
Speaker 1: Why isn't it perfect? Like, how do you break that cycle?
23:03
Speaker 2: I think I break the cycle by I'd love to
23:05
Speaker 2: be coached. I don't expect to be perfect at something
23:10
Speaker 2: right out of the gates. I really like to learn.
23:13
Speaker 2: I think if you can break it down and just say, like,
23:15
Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to be perfect at this, tell yourself
23:18
Speaker 2: that I'm going to learn more by making some mistakes early.
23:22
Speaker 2: I also find that the ones who make mistakes early
23:26
Speaker 2: are the ones who tend to learn more. If you
23:28
Speaker 2: do it right, and you do it perfectly right out
23:30
Speaker 2: of the gate, you think you're really good, but you're
23:32
Speaker 2: going to eventually make that mistake and sometimes a little
23:34
Speaker 2: more devastating when you make it later. You know, so
23:37
Speaker 2: make it early. But I also think that it's really
23:39
Speaker 2: good to go get coaching and get coaching from someone
23:41
Speaker 2: who's great. I always say, if you want to be okay,
23:44
Speaker 2: learn from okay. You want to be good, learn from good.
23:47
Speaker 2: You want to be great, learn from great, and then
23:49
Speaker 2: ask really honest questions of your performance, Be really honest
23:54
Speaker 2: with your coach about how you learn best, and then
23:56
Speaker 2: work through it. With a coach. A great coach too,
23:59
Speaker 2: will give you positive reinforcement. And really when you do
24:02
Speaker 2: something well and clear direction when you don't, and I
24:05
Speaker 2: think that that can help.
24:06
Speaker 1: That's good advice. Yeah, that's really good advice. I'm going
24:09
Speaker 1: to go implement that. I wanted to jump back to
24:13
Speaker 1: Morocco just for a minute. What was your experience in
24:16
Speaker 1: Morocco when you were off of the rally, because you've
24:18
Speaker 1: spent some time doing various things there, what were the highlights.
24:21
Speaker 2: Highlights highlights about Morocco. I love Morocco. The people are great,
24:27
Speaker 2: the driving, there's some really fun trails and terrain. But
24:31
Speaker 2: it's really similar to the Southwest, very similar. But what
24:34
Speaker 2: I love is the culture. I love the colors, it's
24:38
Speaker 2: very colorful. I love the hospitality. But what I really
24:42
Speaker 2: love is people remember you. So I go back and
24:45
Speaker 2: I can go into the middle of nowhere and people
24:48
Speaker 2: remember you. And also everyone is on Facebook or WhatsApp,
24:52
Speaker 2: so I'll get you're in the middle of nowhere and
24:55
Speaker 2: someone is like, hey, you know, like you're my friend
24:59
Speaker 2: on Facebook? Did you get my message? But it's that
25:02
Speaker 2: going into the middle of nowhere and running into people
25:06
Speaker 2: that have become friends along the way all across the country.
25:09
Speaker 2: When I go to Morocco, I feel like I'm going home,
25:12
Speaker 2: is how I would describe it. The other thing is
25:14
Speaker 2: the local people get really excited to see They really
25:18
Speaker 2: love America and they always are the first to say
25:22
Speaker 2: that Morocco was the first country to recognize America's independence
25:27
Speaker 2: and they're very proud of that, so they love Americans.
25:30
Speaker 1: You have a big team on the Rebel rally. You
25:34
Speaker 1: were saying one of them, yay, I'm proud to be one.
25:38
Speaker 1: It's awesome. How many staff I'm thirteen, right, And then
25:42
Speaker 1: you have a very supportive husband as well.
25:45
Speaker 2: I was really independent. I met my husband he was
25:48
Speaker 2: a water safety team when I was writing a big
25:50
Speaker 2: production for Red Bull, And you know, I met him
25:53
Speaker 2: later in life, which is probably good because I really
25:56
Speaker 2: was extremely independent. You know how good that I didn't
26:00
Speaker 2: get married earlier in life because I was so independent,
26:03
Speaker 2: never wanted to, you know, miss any trip or opportunity,
26:08
Speaker 2: which is tough, you know, on a marriage. But I
26:11
Speaker 2: met Lair and he is incredible and he's extremely supportive.
26:16
Speaker 2: So he was the one who really encouraged me to
26:18
Speaker 2: start the Rebel I love that.
26:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's very patient. How much time does he spend
26:24
Speaker 1: on the rebel rally or rally related thing.
26:28
Speaker 2: Well, he just retired and he was really fortunate he
26:30
Speaker 2: got to retire. I think at fifty three years old.
26:33
Speaker 2: He's the marine safety captain in Incinitas, California, and he
26:37
Speaker 2: did that for thirty four years and you know, worked
26:40
Speaker 2: super hard, extremely good at what he does. He travels
26:45
Speaker 2: a lot fortunately, you know, he's great surfer, into spear
26:49
Speaker 2: fishing and riding his dirt bike. I think we have
26:51
Speaker 2: a good balance. You know, it's not too much rebel
26:55
Speaker 2: and we also work to take time away from it.
26:58
Speaker 1: Do you do in your spare time? Do you have
27:01
Speaker 1: spare time?
27:02
Speaker 2: We don't have a lot to say, do we do
27:05
Speaker 2: travel and we serve. What I'm finding is is I'm
27:08
Speaker 2: having to book it. Yes, like okay, book that time
27:12
Speaker 2: and nothing comes in the way of that.
27:14
Speaker 1: So you have he's a big support for you. They
27:17
Speaker 1: always say behind every man is a great woman, which
27:21
Speaker 1: is true. But behind every great woman is another great man.
27:24
Speaker 1: I think, tell me about the rest of the team
27:27
Speaker 1: and the importance of being a leader and having a
27:31
Speaker 1: big team like that, Like, how do you do that?
27:34
Speaker 2: I think When people ask me what my favorite part
27:36
Speaker 2: of the rally is, I say, it's getting to work
27:39
Speaker 2: with the staff. I really wanted to start the Rebel
27:42
Speaker 2: because I had project managed a lot of big events
27:46
Speaker 2: and productions. Always great, always had great teams, but I'd
27:49
Speaker 2: always have people on the team that I couldn't let
27:53
Speaker 2: go of because they were best friends with the CEO
27:56
Speaker 2: or you know, it's something where it was maybe a
27:59
Speaker 2: toxic person and I could not let them go. I
28:03
Speaker 2: started the Rebel and I said, Okay, I really want
28:05
Speaker 2: to develop a great team that really is super positive,
28:09
Speaker 2: and also they're going to support these women that it's
28:12
Speaker 2: not about them. I want world class people. I want
28:16
Speaker 2: a world class team, but it can't be about them.
28:19
Speaker 2: It has to be about the competitors, and I believe
28:23
Speaker 2: we have that. The other thing that I've learned in
28:25
Speaker 2: the process is I started doing some of the same
28:28
Speaker 2: things I had when I was younger. I would bring
28:30
Speaker 2: in someone and say, hey, this is you know, this
28:32
Speaker 2: person is going to work on your team. Because the
28:34
Speaker 2: Rebel is divided into multiple teams with leads and then
28:38
Speaker 2: points of contact within a team, and then I would say, hey,
28:40
Speaker 2: this person is going to work with you, And what
28:42
Speaker 2: I learned in the process is, wow, I'm doing the
28:45
Speaker 2: same thing that happened to me. I can vet people,
28:48
Speaker 2: but then that lead has to make that decision for
28:51
Speaker 2: who is the right person for their sub team, and
28:54
Speaker 2: in the process, I think we've gotten to a really
28:57
Speaker 2: great place. The interesting thing about our team is there
29:01
Speaker 2: are a lot of really strong personalities, especially in our leads.
29:06
Speaker 2: They have different opinions, they have different needs like let's say,
29:10
Speaker 2: course management may be different from scoring, may be different
29:13
Speaker 2: from safety, and some things that they need to accomplish,
29:16
Speaker 2: but they all have to work together. Working over these years,
29:19
Speaker 2: they've worked through things and how to make it all
29:22
Speaker 2: work and remain this really strong cohesive team even when
29:25
Speaker 2: they disagree. And that has been really rewarding and that
29:29
Speaker 2: has really pushed me as a leader. I have definitely
29:32
Speaker 2: grown in the process of really figuring out what is
29:37
Speaker 2: my role, what's my most important role?
29:39
Speaker 1: Because you can get caught up in the time in
29:41
Speaker 1: the minutia when you have over one hundred people doing
29:45
Speaker 1: the things. The things, yeah, so what did you figure out?
29:48
Speaker 2: My job is to make it very clear what roles
29:51
Speaker 2: are and what the goals and the expectations are. And
29:55
Speaker 2: the mission, and then making sure that the leads and
29:59
Speaker 2: everyone is to do their job and that we have
30:01
Speaker 2: the right people and that they are truly empowered to
30:05
Speaker 2: do their job. And that is the number one goal,
30:07
Speaker 2: you know. I also have to make sure that everything
30:09
Speaker 2: is legal and safe and funded. But if I do that,
30:13
Speaker 2: then I know that this team will get the job
30:16
Speaker 2: done and they do.
30:17
Speaker 1: What are you most looking forward to for this year's
30:20
Speaker 1: Rebell Rally?
30:21
Speaker 2: This year, I'm really excited about this year, which is
30:23
Speaker 2: great because it's year seven and I think it's really
30:26
Speaker 2: great to be on year seven and I'm this excited
30:29
Speaker 2: going into the rally. What I'm looking forward to right
30:31
Speaker 2: now is I go out and set the course. So
30:33
Speaker 2: I've been working on the course. It takes me about
30:35
Speaker 2: forty days to lay out the course, and most people
30:38
Speaker 2: don't realize that. And that's not on computers, that's out
30:42
Speaker 2: on the ground. That is a lot of times because
30:44
Speaker 2: we made this crazy format, it's really hard to make
30:48
Speaker 2: it happen. So laying out the course is my favorite part.
30:51
Speaker 2: Is so fun. I get to drive in all these
30:53
Speaker 2: beautiful places. I'm excited for some very special places. So
30:58
Speaker 2: every year we try to have We think about that
31:01
Speaker 2: course in terms of like, what is that view going
31:03
Speaker 2: to be when they come around the corner? What thing
31:05
Speaker 2: are they going to see that other people don't get
31:08
Speaker 2: to see? What are they going to remember the most?
31:10
Speaker 2: What is that place that's going to be the place
31:13
Speaker 2: that I can't believe we're here? And so we've got
31:16
Speaker 2: several of those this year our ex checkpoints. We have
31:19
Speaker 2: some tough driving challenges this year.
31:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're really thinking about the driver experience every single
31:24
Speaker 1: route that you lay down, and also from a background perspective,
31:29
Speaker 1: like the photography perspective of what those shots are going
31:33
Speaker 1: to look like with the trucks in with the women too.
31:35
Speaker 2: We do.
31:35
Speaker 1: It's very cool.
31:36
Speaker 2: We do. We think about that and Jimmy's great at
31:39
Speaker 2: that too. So when we're out laying out the course,
31:42
Speaker 2: we'll come around a corner where and be like, ah,
31:44
Speaker 2: you know this is insane. We have to put a
31:46
Speaker 2: drone right there. Yeah, and then we market it's We
31:50
Speaker 2: really do try to think about the whole thing. And
31:53
Speaker 2: I think that's why it takes so many people to
31:55
Speaker 2: have a world class rally, which is our goal. You
31:58
Speaker 2: can't do that on ten or twenty p and it
32:00
Speaker 2: also doesn't really happen on volunteers. We have some great volunteers,
32:05
Speaker 2: but there are very few volunteers on the rally. That's
32:07
Speaker 2: because the rally is long and hard for the staff.
32:10
Speaker 2: I mean it's not long and hard for the competitors,
32:12
Speaker 2: but the competitors, sorry, competitors kind of have it easy.
32:16
Speaker 1: The staff.
32:17
Speaker 2: We work all day, we work all night, and we're
32:19
Speaker 2: you know, we're having to move, we're having to get
32:21
Speaker 2: down the road. We say we're having our own rally.
32:24
Speaker 2: You've heard that, yes, yeah, yeah, and we are. It
32:26
Speaker 2: is really thought out every single seven in terms of
32:30
Speaker 2: the experience.
32:31
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the importance of the
32:33
Speaker 1: electrified designation. So that's the newest designation, right, and how
32:39
Speaker 1: does it all work with electric vehicles and charging and
32:43
Speaker 1: what do you think the future is?
32:45
Speaker 2: Does the future look like the Rebel Rally We've always
32:47
Speaker 2: said is a proving ground for people, products, and stock
32:51
Speaker 2: manufacturer vehicles, and it doesn't matter how they're powered, you know,
32:55
Speaker 2: whether it's a petrol vehicle, diesel vehicle, or it's an
32:58
Speaker 2: electrified vehicle. I really wanted to start in the electrified program,
33:02
Speaker 2: and in fact, we were ready to start it, but
33:04
Speaker 2: the manufacturers weren't quite ready, so it launched in twenty twenty.
33:10
Speaker 2: We're going into our third year. We launched with the
33:12
Speaker 2: Rivian Armanti and the Mitsubishi plug in Hybrid, so we
33:15
Speaker 2: had a fully electric and a hybrid. This year, we're
33:19
Speaker 2: going to have quite a few vehicles. I think last
33:22
Speaker 2: year we had seven electrified vehicles. The single biggest challenge
33:26
Speaker 2: is not the vehicle, it's how to power them in
33:29
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere. What happened was is when we
33:31
Speaker 2: decided to do the electrified program, I started contacting companies
33:35
Speaker 2: to be able to provide the remote power, and there
33:37
Speaker 2: were a number of startup companies. You saw a lot
33:40
Speaker 2: in Silicon Valley, a lot that had just gotten funding,
33:43
Speaker 2: and everybody was telling me, you know, we probably met
33:46
Speaker 2: with like seven different companies that they could do it,
33:49
Speaker 2: they could provide you know, this solution. Honestly, when it
33:53
Speaker 2: came down to it, people would just vaporize because they couldn't.
33:56
Speaker 2: And what most people don't realize is that remote quote
34:00
Speaker 2: rapid power is extremely hard to do because if you
34:04
Speaker 2: plug in level two charging overnight, it's a slower charge.
34:09
Speaker 2: Not that hard to do, but we have to rapid
34:11
Speaker 2: power cars out on course so they can keep going
34:14
Speaker 2: because some of our days are really long. To do that,
34:16
Speaker 2: it takes a tremendous amount of power. We produced about
34:19
Speaker 2: enough power to power about one hundred homes just to
34:22
Speaker 2: power the few electric vehicles we have to get down
34:26
Speaker 2: the course. We ended up with an incredible company, Renewable Innovations,
34:32
Speaker 2: and Bob Moult and the CEO of that company is
34:35
Speaker 2: just a legend in creating remote rapid power and silent power,
34:40
Speaker 2: whether it's for Department of Defense, Department of Energy, is
34:43
Speaker 2: also a hydrogen expert. The way to produce power rapidly
34:47
Speaker 2: is through hydrogen. But also it's not that easy to
34:50
Speaker 2: get hydrogen. It's not that easy to transport hydrogen. Although
34:53
Speaker 2: it's getting better. They came on board and what was
34:56
Speaker 2: great is they had solution A, B, C, and D.
35:00
Speaker 2: You can imagine if you can't get power to those cars,
35:03
Speaker 2: what are you going to do? What if your solution
35:05
Speaker 2: A fails? And so we didn't have companies that had
35:08
Speaker 2: multiple solutions. And to tell you the truth, it's getting better,
35:12
Speaker 2: but we're still in a state of that same situation.
35:15
Speaker 2: So what do I think is going to happen? Legislation
35:18
Speaker 2: is pushing us toward electrified vehicles quickly. I love driving
35:23
Speaker 2: an electric vehicle. They're fun to drive. Driving, you know
35:26
Speaker 2: that riving is amazing. I'm fortunate I get to drive
35:29
Speaker 2: a lot of electric vehicles and test them out. You
35:31
Speaker 2: know that Audi e Tron. It's just so fun to drive.
35:34
Speaker 2: Until the infrastructure is there, it's really challenging. Hybrid electric
35:38
Speaker 2: vehicles are great. We've got the GEP four by E here.
35:41
Speaker 2: It's so fun to drive when it's in just all
35:44
Speaker 2: electric mode. You know, the torque is incredible, it's quiet,
35:48
Speaker 2: they're great. Having the hybrid is really helpful right now.
35:53
Speaker 2: We need a lot more infrastructure.
35:55
Speaker 1: I think that extends to overlanding as well. You've talked
35:58
Speaker 1: about this before how rebel rally is like approving ground
36:03
Speaker 1: potentially for evs and that transferring over to longer term trips,
36:08
Speaker 1: and yeah, the infrastructure is needed for both for sure.
36:11
Speaker 1: So it should be interesting to see how that develops
36:13
Speaker 1: over the next five years and ten years down the
36:16
Speaker 1: road for sure. And we'll watch the Rebel rally to see,
36:19
Speaker 1: you know, how that's evolving.
36:20
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool because I've seen the vehicles get more
36:23
Speaker 2: out of the battery. So from the time we started,
36:26
Speaker 2: our need to remote power has lessened. We don't have
36:30
Speaker 2: to provide remote power every day because the cars can
36:32
Speaker 2: go farther. So that's encouraging, and I think we're going
36:34
Speaker 2: to see more. Obviously, we're going to see more of that,
36:37
Speaker 2: and I have to see more of that. But it's
36:38
Speaker 2: fine to be at that level, you know early on
36:42
Speaker 2: to have to research it and learn. It's going to
36:44
Speaker 2: be a very interesting decade though, because of the mandates.
36:47
Speaker 2: It's twenty twenty two and people are mandating things at
36:51
Speaker 2: twenty thirty and that's not that far away.
36:54
Speaker 1: It's coming.
36:55
Speaker 2: It's coming really fast.
36:57
Speaker 1: So we're here, as I said at the BCO our
37:00
Speaker 1: Land rally. As you can probably tell, this is a
37:03
Speaker 1: podcast in the field, but I wanted to ask you.
37:06
Speaker 1: You're doing a whole bunch of classes here on all
37:09
Speaker 1: sorts of different things, Like what are some of the classes?
37:12
Speaker 2: Like navigation classes. So we're doing two mapping classes. One
37:16
Speaker 2: is like basic mapping, the second one is Advanced mapping
37:19
Speaker 2: and plotting, which is really interesting compass and map skills.
37:22
Speaker 2: We're doing a GPS app class, which is super popular.
37:25
Speaker 2: We're doing a driving course so we do our chalk
37:28
Speaker 2: talk and then we do the technical driving course that's
37:30
Speaker 2: a lady's only class, which is really fun. Gear selection,
37:34
Speaker 2: and that's not gears of your vehicle, it's the gear
37:37
Speaker 2: you choose, including your vehicle. Knowing your vehicle. We do
37:41
Speaker 2: some really great, kind of in depth walkthroughs on people's vehicles. So, yeah,
37:46
Speaker 2: we're busy, and it's too bad because there's so many
37:48
Speaker 2: great classes to take. The classes, yes, exactly.
37:52
Speaker 1: What is it that you love about events like the
37:55
Speaker 1: BC or Northwest Overland rallies love them.
37:57
Speaker 2: It was so great to be back at north West
38:00
Speaker 2: because the vibe was so great. What I like about them?
38:04
Speaker 2: They're not sales events. They are really events where people connect,
38:08
Speaker 2: learn about product, talk to experts, take all these classes.
38:12
Speaker 2: But the vibe is so good. You know, everybody is excited.
38:15
Speaker 2: People aren't on their phones. It's not all about your
38:18
Speaker 2: next Instagram photo. I would say that the best thing
38:22
Speaker 2: is the vibe and you can't replace that. And it
38:24
Speaker 2: has always been the case in the Northwest and the
38:28
Speaker 2: BC and the Rocky Mountain. Everyone mouths and that's why
38:31
Speaker 2: we choose to come here because the connections we make
38:34
Speaker 2: here literally last forever. I mean, I've made truly lifelong
38:38
Speaker 2: friends at these rallies. I think the motto is learn something,
38:41
Speaker 2: have fun, make friends. Yeah, not necessarily in that order.
38:44
Speaker 2: But it is a book. It's about eight maps that
38:48
Speaker 2: define the world. And it's so good because it's actually
38:53
Speaker 2: really explaining a lot about what's going on with Russia
38:55
Speaker 2: and Ukraine, and it's about how our geography defines our
38:59
Speaker 2: history on our geopolitical situation. You know, whether you have
39:03
Speaker 2: oceans around you, our mountains to protect you are big planes,
39:07
Speaker 2: you know, like Russia. You know that's open. It's how
39:11
Speaker 2: it's literally led to wars or countries prospering. It is
39:16
Speaker 2: the most fascinating book. That was really a great one.
39:19
Speaker 2: And then the other one is called The Coggling of
39:21
Speaker 2: the American Mind. Oh well, it's really about that we
39:24
Speaker 2: need to tough enough. I'll just leave it at that,
39:27
Speaker 2: but it's worth reading. It's very relevant.
39:29
Speaker 1: Well, do you have anything else you'd like to add,
39:31
Speaker 1: anything we haven't touched on you'd like to share?
39:34
Speaker 2: Just thanks for being a part of the rebel and
39:37
Speaker 2: you know, thanks too to Overland Journal and the Expedition Portal.
39:40
Speaker 2: They have literally supported us since the beginning, you know,
39:43
Speaker 2: Scott Brady, Bryan, Nick Vickers, the whole team has really
39:47
Speaker 2: been supportive of us. And you know, it's that kind
39:50
Speaker 2: of encouragement that you know, keeps you going when people
39:53
Speaker 2: say no, you can't do this. You know, just think
39:56
Speaker 2: that it's really important that we get out and push ourselves,
39:59
Speaker 2: you know, and get out travel. It's been a tough
40:01
Speaker 2: couple of years. I've been really thankful that the Rebel
40:04
Speaker 2: has been able to happen. You know, it's not a
40:06
Speaker 2: spectator of it, you know, so it's been able to happen,
40:09
Speaker 2: and I think that that was really important. It was
40:11
Speaker 2: really a bright spot, you know, in a in a
40:13
Speaker 2: really interesting sometimes dark time.
40:17
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, if anybody is interested in you or the
40:21
Speaker 1: Rebel Rally, where can they find you online?
40:24
Speaker 2: Rebel Rally dot com r E B E L l E.
40:27
Speaker 2: So to rebel means to defy convention and Bell is
40:31
Speaker 2: a beautiful woman, so that's where the name comes from.
40:33
Speaker 2: It's not rebel, it's rebel, So Rebel Rally dot com.
40:37
Speaker 2: Everything is there information about Rebel Impact. We're not a nonprofit,
40:40
Speaker 2: but we do a lot of giving our training programs,
40:44
Speaker 2: everything about the Rebel the Rebel Rally and our blog.
40:47
Speaker 1: Oh the final point, Yes, this is important. It's not
40:51
Speaker 1: a race.
40:52
Speaker 2: It's not a race. Do not call it a race. Yeah,
40:57
Speaker 2: it's not a race for speed, but it is. I'd
41:00
Speaker 2: say it's like a moving chess game, but it's about
41:03
Speaker 2: pace efficiency.
41:04
Speaker 1: Yes, and strategy because of the chess part. Yes, that's awesome. Well,
41:08
Speaker 1: thank you so much for taking the time to do
41:11
Speaker 1: this interview with me.
41:12
Speaker 2: Emi.
41:12
Speaker 1: Super appreciate it, and I know that the listeners will
41:15
Speaker 1: be really excited to have you on. Thank you so
41:17
Speaker 1: much to the Overland Journal podcast listeners. I hope you've
41:20
Speaker 1: enjoyed miss episode and we will see you next time.
41:24
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in.