Latest / Best of Business / Ethan Griffiths: Newstalk ZB political reporter on how the teen social media ban could see Facebook blocked in NZ

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Ethan Griffiths: Newstalk ZB political reporter on how the teen social media ban could see Facebook blocked in NZ · Best of Business

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Joining me now to talk local politics is Newstalk ZB
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: political reporter Ethan Griffiths. Good morning.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Good morning, Francesca.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Hey, can you please explain to me how the government's
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: proposed bill banning under-16s from social media could force entire
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: internet service providers to completely shut down for all New Zealanders?
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty out there. I mean, if there's been
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: any controversy about this policy at all, it was more
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: the fact that the government's chosen to wait until after
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: the election to pass it, despite having Labour's support. But
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: now we have time to dig into the bill and
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: find out what it actually says. And there's some pretty
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: significant powers in there, as you say. The most significant power,
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: if social media companies fail to keep young people off
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: their platforms, then the High Court can make an order
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: to prevent the companies from operating in New Zealand, as
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  Speaker 3: you say. That would be the internet service provider saying, no,
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  Speaker 3: you can't access Facebook or Instagram or whatever it may
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  Speaker 3: be anymore. Now, that's a pretty drastic step. Education Minister
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  Speaker 3: Erica Stanford says it's the same approach that's used in
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  Speaker 3: the UK and is closely aligned with the approach in Australia.
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  Speaker 3: She says there needs to be meaningful consequences here if
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  Speaker 3: a platform repeatedly refuses to meet its obligations. Now, worth
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  Speaker 3: keeping in mind as well is that there are powers
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  Speaker 3: to fine these social media companies 10%. of their annual revenue,
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  Speaker 3: which for a company like Meta, which owns Facebook and Instagram,
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  Speaker 3: would be $ 35 billion, you know, without doubt the largest
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  Speaker 3: fine ever issued in New Zealand if it was to
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  Speaker 3: come to force. But if this ever happened, you'd have
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  Speaker 3: to think how Kiwis would react. The other question, it's
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: a high court judge that would essentially make the order
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  Speaker 3: to shut these companies down. You know, there's not much
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  Speaker 3: accountability there. You'd think maybe that should be the role
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: of Parliament.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: So is it just about if they... they don't get
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: enough kids off their platforms? Or is it if there
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: is content on there that is harmful to children that
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  Speaker 2: they would be able to enact this? Or is it
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  Speaker 2: something horrific that ends up on Facebook, maybe like somebody
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  Speaker 2: live streaming a horrific act like we saw in Christchurch?
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  Speaker 3: I imagine what it would cover, and again, this is
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  Speaker 3: yet to be tested in the courts, of course, so
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  Speaker 3: it's difficult to answer. But I imagine what it would
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  Speaker 3: cover would be these companies not doing enough to keep
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  Speaker 3: young people off their platforms. So it's both exposing them
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: to harmful content, which, of course, they can only do
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  Speaker 3: if the young people are on those platforms that obviously
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  Speaker 3: the bill is designed to keep them off. So it
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  Speaker 3: would require, I imagine, these companies dropping the ball pretty
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: significantly or entirely refusing to comply with the New Zealand law.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: I see.
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  Speaker 2: Ethan, teenagers are very smart, and they can find ways
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: to get onto these platforms and things. Then all of
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: a sudden, mum and dad might not be able to
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  Speaker 2: use their phones quite as often as they thought. Look,
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  Speaker 2: it might not be such a bad thing for us all.
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  Speaker 2: I wonder, though, whether they're trying to make it sound like, yes,
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  Speaker 2: there's going to be strong consequences, but we're never going
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: to use it.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: It could be bluster. A lot of these things often are.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, a little bit of bluster. But I very much
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: appreciate you talking me through that. Very quickly, where are
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: we at with the benefits? Have we sorted this out?
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Is everybody going to get their winter payment?
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Well, the Ministry of Social Development says that we are
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: in the process of sorting it out. Of course, this
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: came from urgent legislation passed last year. It meant people
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: had to check in with their benefits every year, which
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: is probably not an unreasonable thing to expect. The problem
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: was the winter energy payment was included, so a bunch
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: of pensioners missed out. And then we find late this
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: week that, in fact, it was more than that. It
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: was some beneficiaries as well, because they'd followed the rules.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: They'd gone to MSD and said, hey, just checking in.
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  Speaker 3: But MSD got completely overloaded with paperwork, which meant that
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  Speaker 3: some of these people had their benefits cut. And it
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: led to the Prime Minister and the Social Development Minister
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: having to apologise yet again for what is another bungle
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: from rushed legislation. We've had some assurances from Louise Upston,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: the Social Development Minister, that work is underway to make
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: sure this is all fixed. The question is, does the
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: government need to now pass more legislation to fix the
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  Speaker 3: errors in this urgent legislation they passed last year? It's
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: all a bit of a bungle, I think you'd have
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: to say.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Ethan, thanks so much for your time this morning. Really
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  Speaker 2: appreciate it.
• 4:37
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• 4:41
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• 4:44
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