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Blunt Rotation · Talking About Birds: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• Room recording === [00:00:00] Nate: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Talking About Birds, the only Cardinal podcast that, unlike the St. Louis Cardinals, never even showed the hope of being good. My name is Nate Heininger, and I am joined by my co-host, Ben Somorka ben: Never even shut the hell up It's clunky ​ Nate: If you have an idea for the opening bit, text or leave us a voicemail at 848-48-BIRDS. Uh, and thank you to whoever you are, wherever you are that, uh, submitted that, uh, right, right before we went live and I said, "I gotta throw this one in." It di- it does sort of feel like a double negative. Uh, never ben: ass Nate: clunky, yeah. Never even... [00:01:00] What is it? Hold on. Never even, unlike the St. Louis Cardinals, even showed the hope of being good. I think syn- gramma- I think it's correct syntax ben: it's, I'm just saying it sucks is, you know, I'm coming at ya Nate: 'cause we've never really showed, uh, a glimmer of hope of being good ben: Um, no, I, I get what it's saying. I'm not even disagreeing with it. It's just, uh, it's hard to say and therefore I feel like throwing some shade at somebody who's throwing some shade at me, Nate. I'm just lashing out. When I'm backed into a corner, what am I gonna do? Nate: We, we have discussed being more aggressive at our listeners, uh, when they participate in the game that we've requested where they send us opening bits making fun of us, so... ben: that's, you do take all the fun out of it with your little commentary you placed on it right there. So okay, fine. Good job. Thanks for participating Nate: It, no, I like it. I, again, I think that whoever this person is, is a jerk. There, ben: Yeah.[00:02:00] Nate: Um, it does speak to the broader, uh, vibe that is starting to permeate the, uh, the Cardinals after this, uh, last couple weeks, but we'll, we'll get to ben: Reject that vibe Nate: Yeah, I reject that vibe too. ben: Yeah Nate: we've got, we got a packed show though, Hambo. We always got a packed show over here at, uh, Talking About Birds HQ. But of course, we have to start with, um, uh, recapping our weekend. We just spent yet another weekend together. You showed up at my house, uh, at about 11:30 PM on Friday night, and I never even saw you Sunday morning, 'cause you got out of there as quickly as you could. Um, ben: Yep. Nate: We all enjoyed it. a pool of melted butter in your, in your wake. Um, ben: Is that like I secrete it or I was eating in bed or Nate: Uh, little ben: I'm like a human slug? What's... Like a butter slug? Nate: yeah, you're a butter slug. ben: Butter [00:03:00] slug. Butter slug is cool actually. I like that. Nate: What's up, butter slug? ben: Yeah. I'll be butter slug. I'm cool with that. Nate: Oh, no. From hambone to butter slug. uh, uh, actually I wanted to... So there's, I really doubt you will have noticed this, but maybe you have. So here and I, um, share a TikTok account for the show, right? So we ben: We have a TikTok. You should check it out Nate: yeah, we post videos, clips from the episodes onto TikTok. Um, we don't really do much other content, but every once in a, ben: We sh- we should have done some... Well, anyways, Blogger's Day content, but it's too late for that now Nate: Too late for that. And, uh, they also said no video for that thing, so you know, we coulda done some, some stealth, ben: think people want to see us slurping down some slick sticks. Nadine and the [00:04:00] butter slugs slick- slicking down some slick sticks. Nate: sticks. Oh, God. The language of this show is just getting worse and worse. Um, what have we done to ourselves, Hambone? So, so anyway, so Hambone and I both have a, uh, we, we share a TikTok account. Neither of us are big, viewers though, you know? Um, I don't, I personally don't spend a lot of time watching TikTok. I don't think you do, but I know that if either of us do, we're using the same account. ben: Right Nate: is funny 'cause there's a little bit of a, a push/pull on, like, what the algorithm is feeding, 'cause you like to watch different things than I do. Um, mostly big, beefy men is, seems to ben: Ooh. Nate: preference. ben: Yeah, who, who doesn't like a, a jacked dad? Nate: there are a lot of, lot of... I saw this guy, I don't even know what his name is, the m- most jacked person I've ever seen was on, uh, was, uh, came up through TikTok when I was on it the other day. But anyway, there's also been a trickling in [00:05:00] content of people using their hands on their knees, their hips, their thighs, and with little spoons and things like that to create music, ben: Okay. Nate: known hamboning. ben: Oh, Nate: you familiar with... ben: hambone. I've heard, yes, I, I have heard of this Nate: Yeah. hamboning is that sort of, like, it's often, like, sort of con- old-timey, you know, country sort of thing, ben: Sure Nate: and so I guess my question for you is, are you going onto TikTok and searching for hambone material, or is this something that the algorithm has maybe heard our own content where I call you Hambone and is now generating hambone content for us? ben: Unfortunately, I am not searching out hamboning videos on my own. I think the only thing that makes sense is that there are s- so little references for [00:06:00] people being called hambone or people just saying the word hambone as much as you say the word hambone, or words hambone, and it is doing that, and it does not surprise me that there is a layer of, uh, or a section of TikTok that is dedicated to the art of hamboning. How I feel about all that is uneasy and unsure, and this just m- I think any of the time I did spend on TikTok even looking at our own content's performance is, is maybe over now that I know that that is out there Nate: Ham Bone TikTok is big. Ham Bone, there, there's... It's getting a lot of likes. I'm just saying if you're looking for avenue, another career path, Ham Bone's Ham Bone, ben: Yeah. Nate: you know? ben: Yeah, there's huge money in that. Um, I have personal interest in it. It sounds great, and I [00:07:00] appreciate you beginning the rest of my life Nate: Yeah. Today is the first day of the rest of your life. Now you know about Hambone TikTok. ben: Yeah Nate: all right, all right, let's move on. So we, uh, we spent the weekend, um, uh, at least the Saturday afternoon into the evening, at Busch Stadium, uh, where we were wined and dined by the, uh, the ben: And 69 Nate: And wined, dined, and 69ed by the by the, uh, by the St. Louis Cardinals, uh, PR staff. Shout out to Carson, great dude. Uh, facilitates a lot of this and is, is there the whole time. Um, you know, that we've talked about it for years now, we've been talking about it leading up to this, but basically the way it works is the Cardinals invite a, uh, s- a s- a bunch of people from the Cardinal podcast and blogger community. I don't really know how they make their selection. We've been a part of it for a while now, which has been [00:08:00] cool. Um, but a lot of the other bigger, uh, podcasts and blogs and whatnot are all there. It's probably... And everyone gets a plus one, which is also very nice. Um, so I don't know, there's probably 25 people there, ben: Sure Nate: around 10 to, 10 or so, uh, like, and blogs, maybe more, I don't know, it's hard to tell, uh, represented, and then a bunch of plus ones. We brought, uh, associate sound producer Chris, the guy who makes all the music for the show, and your brother Jake, who was really the star of the questions, uh, s- question block, which we'll get to here in a moment. Um, uh, they, they basically get us a, a private suite up in the Red Bird Legend Club, uh, with an open bar and all the generic ballpark food you could want, ben: Yeah Nate: which is nice. Uh, and then Chaim Bloom came and spent, what, 45 minutes with us? ben: I think he probably answered questions [00:09:00] for 45-ish minutes and then hung around the box for a couple of innings. Nate: Yeah, he did. I, I actually didn't even realize. I thought he walked right out of there. Uh, Mazolak ben: I would have Nate: Yeah, Mazolak always, you know, again, he was gracious with his time and never seemed like he didn't wanna be there, but he ben: We Nate: like, uh, he, he, he booked it when it was ben: Yeah, we had to like stop him for a picture one year, and I was like, "Okay, Mo." Nate: He goes, "This is the last one," when we're all, when we were like next to him. ben: Chill out, pal. Nate: Um, but ben: You ain't The Beatles Nate: yeah, Heim hung around. and seemed to have really good general conversation with a bunch of people. Uh, I know fr- our friend of the show, Jake, uh, talked to him quite casually for quite a while, which was cool. Um, so he definitely s- seemed to show a real interest. And, and they, they pitched this whole thing, uh, as an appreciation evening. It's not really, like, to get hard scoops, although it is cool that we get access to ask Heim questions directly. Um, but their point is that, [00:10:00] uh, they believe, or at least they say they believe, that the, the fan networks are able to pr- to, essentially provide a more nuanced view of the organization than what the larger media companies are able to do. Uh, and they appreciate that, um, which of course they should be. We abas- basically do free, uh, journalism and reporting for them every single week. Um, but it's nice that they show the appreciation. I do believe it, you know. And, uh, we get a, a cool night at the ballpark. Uh, Cubs-Cardinals game Saturday night. You know, hard to pick a better, evening at Busch Stadium. Uh, it wasn't a sell- sellout. It hasn't been for a long time, but it was one of the more, if not the most attended game of the year, and probably of the last two years. Uh, and it was quite rowdy, although we were in the, uh, in our calm, comfort, uh, uh, you know, air-conditioned little box, which I know you were appreciative because you've become such a weak little baby since you moved to Denver.[00:11:00] ben: Yeah, no, no pushback from me on that. I don't know how you guys live in that swamp town. It is unbearable Nate: It was particularly bad. It's funny, this spring has been truly beautiful in St. Louis, and I think that is, this weekend was the first, like, humid weekend, and it was, you were here for that. So you, ben: Yeah Nate: you brought the sweat. Ol' butter slug Hambo just ben: I felt like a butter slug sucking down those, uh, ice-cold Budweisers and sweating. I was, it was, the air conditioning was, uh, was pleasant. Nate: Yeah ben: yeah, I th- I thought it was a great event. I w- I thought that, uh, Heim participated earnestly and thoughtfully in his answers. He actually, he was, like, extremely long-winded, um, which I did not expect. A- and I say long-winded, like, he w- he was thoughtful. He, he was, like, answering the questions as, like, with as much thought process as he could share with us. Nate: Yeah ben: you know, he, he wasn't telling us about, like, active negotiations and s- like, specifics with certain players [00:12:00] and stuff like that. But I would say he probably answered, like, a third of the amount of questions that we have fired at Mo in the past, and not because he wasn't making himself available, but because he was being so thoughtful with the answer. And I know, uh, Jake, uh, Wood has thrown up hi- the, um, audio version of the chat if you wanna go list- if you're a true sicko, you wanna go listen to that. He has it on his feed. Um, and as Nate referenced, uh, my little brother, who is a fan of baseball, but, um, different tiers than Nate and I, and probably if you're listening to this show Uh, we had been having an ongoing conversation about whether or not, i- in our little group of friends, whether or not barbecue sauce belongs on hot dogs. Uh, and Jake took it upon himself to ask Heim his thoughts on if you should have barbecue sauce on hot dogs, and I thought Heim's answer was perfect. Uh, "This is America. You can do whatever you want. Personally, it's not for [00:13:00] me." And I could not... I, I, that was the thing I agreed with Heim on the most. Verbatim, that is how I feel. You shouldn't be doing it. You can do it, but you shouldn't be doing it Nate: disagree. Hold on. So sh- he never said you shouldn't be doing it. In fact, he says, "If you like it, go for it." Your opinion has been no one should be putting barbecue sauce on a hot ben: No, you're, this is y- this is, uh, the hyperbolic twisting of words that Nate likes to do, especially on this show. Remember, Nate is a bully, and he's gonna make you think whatever he wants you to think Nate: the ben: because he's just gonna chud, pro- prow- power through it. Yeah, check the tape. Let's go to the tapes right now Nate: All right, let's go. Just like I said. ben: Hmm. Nate: ahead and let's go take a caller on this one too. Let's check the lines All ben: All right Nate: and the caller agreed. Um, ben: Can we talk about baseball now? Nate: yeah. Uh, well, I, I, I wanted, um, [00:14:00] to, to go on to, what Chaim Bloom said. Like, I thought... I, I agree, he was, he was quite verbose. It was, it was l- very long answers. Um, good answers generally. Um, nothing really groundbreaking, you know? I think, we were curious about... You were gonna ask, uh, about extensions, and you were immediately scooped by a 12-year-old boy who was there. Uh, the very first question that Chaim got was essentially the question that you were, uh, had, had pitched on the show, is what's his ben: Yeah. Nate: uh, extensions. And nothing really new. He essentially ben: Gave a pretty cagey answer to it, Nate: yeah, ben: makes sense Nate: It's essentially, it's a two-way street, which is the answer he had been, he had given ben: Which is bullshit Nate: yeah. Well, he got a little deeper with it, saying that basically, um, like a rookie contract, the risk is all on the player. Um, and a extension, you're now sharing the risk, and [00:15:00] so they're, they're seemingly more risk-averse as an organization. So, you know, you can kind of read between the lines there that the organization, doesn't really like making riskier plays when they don't have to. Um, which, you know, not how a lot of modern teams are thinking. Um, but he obviously also can't say like, "Yeah, we're trying to negotiate three right now," you know? Uh, so it makes sense to just sort of punt it back and say, it takes two to tango," you know? Um, he had some good answers. Uh, the general vibe was, "Hey, we're kind of competing now. Like, does that change anything?" And he basically said no, know? Um, he said, "We're nowhere near what we actually want to be. and so to basically punt our future plans for success right now is just still not on the table." Uh, which I think is the right answer. Um, we'll see [00:16:00] in a month or more. Again, you know, we'll talk about the state of play here in a moment. Um, but I think it's, it's still the right answer not to suddenly sh- shift gears and try to go all in this year or something like that because you've had a good first two months. Um, we- were there other questions that came up that you thought worth discussing, or should we go into the, into the ben: I didn't think really, um, nothing. A- again, they were, they were long and thoughtful answers. It was nice to hear about how he's thinking about the organization, his time with the Cardinals. Um, I, I guess one thing to note was, um, I, I felt like he was i- in several answers talking about how he is a different person than he was with the Rays and the Red Sox. He's constantly trying to learn and grow. I think we all know that. Um, and I, I guess another thing that I noticed is that, you know, he is very close to you and I's age. Nate: Mm-hmm. ben: [00:17:00] is a good chunk older than we are. He- the way that he speaks and thinks about problems I think was just very relatable, Nate: Yeah ben: as opposed to Mo, who I think got into the corporate speak really aggressively, especially, um, when speaking with any member of the media. Y- yeah, I think he lightened up a little bit with us sometimes. Nate: Yeah ben: um, another funny thing, I'll just ... For my very personal experience, the first time we went to one of these and it was Mo, and I'd been watching John Mozeliak be runner, uh, running the Cardinals for however many years at that point. I kinda was like, "Holy shit, we're l- we're, like, talking to the guy. Like, this is Mo. He's World Series champion." You know, yada, yada, yada. And then when Heim walked in the room, I kind of felt like, okay, this is just a guy that works here and has a cool job. But, uh, I thought that that ... I don't know if you felt anything like that, but I, I thought that that was funny. Um, I had, I think I, like, mystified Mozeliak back in the day in my mind and, uh, just feel less of that now. Nate: Yeah. [00:18:00] Um, I think that's probably too, frankly, just, as wild as it is, is this is now the, know, of several times that we've gotten to interact directly with, key members of the St. Louis Cardinal organization because of this dumbass podcast we do. And so it, it feels a little less like, "Holy shit, I can't believe we're doing..." I mean, it still does, like, to some degree that this stupid thing that, like, we just talk. I've been calling you, Butter Slug for 15 minutes now, and also got invited by the St. Louis Cardinals to interview the president of baseball operations, you know. Um, ben: Yeah Nate: incongruous. Those, those two things should not, overlap, but there's enough sickos like us. Thank, shout out to the listeners, you know, uh, that, that tune in every week for whatever this is. Uh, but I think, you know, we've done it a few times now, so maybe it's just that, that, um, that does, uh, diminish ben: can stay. Nate: Yeah. Uh, but ben: We're [00:19:00] jaded Nate: of like he's just a guy and, and Mozeliak comes in in his full bu- bow tie and, and ben: He's Nate: So, ben: kind of a cartoon character of a man, Yeah. Nate: yeah. Uh, the only other thing I'll say is, a- and I don't want to get into the details of the answer, but he, he was funny sometimes, and he got asked about AI, 'cause you can't not talk about AI right now. And he said, uh, to paraphrase, to paraphrase his answer is, "I wanna have a World Series on... W- World Series ring on my hand, when I'm a battery for the future AI overlords," or something like that, which was funny. It got a ben: Yeah. Yeah Nate: laugh, uh, from the crowd. So, um, he did have a thoughtful answer, I thought, to the question, too. But, um, uh, I guess we should get into, into some of the actual state of play last week, uh, from the last week. So, uh, as mentioned in the opening bit, um, you know, the Cardinals have lost more than they've won for a little while, for the last couple weeks now. Uh, [00:20:00] we record this on Wednesday. The Cardinals have lost, uh, two of the three games against the Rangers, a series that you and I were both, um, pretty bullish on for the Cardinals to do well at. Uh, last night's was a bit of a backbreaker, too, um, as they, uh, O'Brien had a meltdown in the ninth. But as we stand, the Cardinals are 31 and 28, sitting in a cool third place the NL Central. Um, how are you feeling right now? ben: Yeah, I think, um, I'm sure that a lot of people are not feeling great about the Cardinals' last 10 plus games or so because they haven't really sequenced super well. But I think that we're seeing a bunch of strong individual performances. We're gonna talk about some pitching wins that have happened over this time period. I think that it's just, like, more of a, a sequencing issue right now than anything. You know, like Jordan Walker is taking a step back offensively right now, [00:21:00] although if you look at the under the hood, it, it, I'm not all that concerned with it. Um, but you're having some other performances from other people. We're, we're seeing new young players pop up with- in the big leagues and we're gonna see what they're about. So I think that this is-- I, I'm chalking this up to the Cardinals are probably a little bit better than a .500 team, uh, because of, um, their young players ascending. Uh, and we all, like, we're a third of the way through the season. Like, I think it's pretty good first third for what we thought we were walking into. We'll see what this next third brings up. Um, we'll see if Walker is able to bounce back, to see if Wetherholt is able to keep doing what he's doing. What kind of performance are we gonna get out of guys like Sujeycee and Velazquez and, uh, uh, Victor Scott and some of the guys that aren't the, aren't, aren't driving the team forward right now? Um, you know, it just takes, you know, one of those guys figuring out how to, how to play baseball a little bit better, Gorman figuring out his bat a little bit [00:22:00] more, um, for you to feel really good about this team. But, uh, every team is going to have a three and seven run at some point this season. Um, they might have a few. Cardinals are in the middle of one right now. I'm, I am not concerned. Nate: Yeah I, I think, like, really comes down to what sort of expectations did you have going into all of this, right? I think we've been, as a show, optimistic about this season and how good it's been going. But we talk every week about how the Cardinals' run differential's actually not great. They're kind of playing over their expectations right now. They're seq- as you've been saying, they've been sequencing really, really well, uh, and winning a lot of games that no one expected them to win. Um, well, that almost never lasts an entire season, right? So this was inevitable that we would have, uh, some regression, some challenging losses, some, [00:23:00] some bad days offensively. Jordan Walker struck out seven times in a row in the last two games. Uh, like, that's all kind of expected, frankly. And what was unexpected is that the Cardinals were almost 10 games over 500 at one point during the season, right? Um, it's, it's a long-ass season. Uh, i- we were talking in the, in the, in the Birds Gored, um, you know, the Cardinals had a better record than this at this time last year. They had a better record than this longer than now. You know, it was really until July is when the Cardinals started to fall off last year. Um, and I think across the board right now, if you asked anybody, "Is this team better than last year?" Everyone would say yes, right? Um, but the record actually doesn't reflect that. You know? It's just sort of like vibes, and the youth, and the way they've been winning games makes you feel better about it. Uh, as well as, and we'll talk about it, you know, maybe Dustin May is real. Maybe, [00:24:00] you know, there's a few other things happening that make you think, "Okay, this team could be good." But still, there's a reason this team coming into the season was projected, like, 70 wins by most projection systems outside of, of ZIPS. So, uh, I'm not worried about it, because I was never expecting this team to be a, a high-end playoff contender, but I still think this team has the talent to continue to win games and, and be interesting all year, and maybe into a, uh, some sort of wild... Like, I, I expect they'll be in the wild card picture for most of the season. Now, whether it's the top or the bottom, we'll see, you ben: Yeah. Yeah, and it's like, uh, it goes without saying. There's like, um, y- you know, we mentioned this, uh, a, a couple of weeks ago, I think, but I think a lot of people thought that the Giants and the Mets and the Marlins, uh, even Cincinnati, is in there, were, were probably gonna have much better seasons than they've been having so [00:25:00] far. The Cardinals are taking advantage of those teams not being, producing to the way, to the degree that a lot of people thought they were going to be producing. And, um, I, I think that the reason I don't feel bad about any of this is because we are not relying on a chunk of 30-plus-year-old guys. We are watching young players with high ceilings figure it out in real time. So I mean, even if we have another, um, three and seven, 10 games ahead of us right now, at least I know that those at-bats are going to, um, Ivan Herrera and JJ Wetherholt, making them better, Nate: Yeah ben: uh, some future game either next year or the year after Nate: Which was always what we thought this season was gonna be. Th- this like, "Oh man, they're winning, they're good, they're fun, they have a chance at a, at something interesting this year," has been the revelation over the last month and a half. Uh, it has not ben: Yeah. [00:26:00] And I feel like it's not a crazy-- Like, you see this with rebuilding time, or teams from time to time. Like, they start clicking maybe a little faster than you thought. And I think the Cardinals, I think that we're in a lucky spot that it really, like, I think we went from at the beginning of this year or even last year thinking it was gonna be a couple of years to I think that the organization and you and I and, and probably a lot of people listening right now are like, "Well, maybe it's this year. Maybe it's next year." Like, it's, it's happening very, very quickly, and I think it's gonna be extremely dependent on how, uh, some of that young pitching that we've acquired, um, kind of matriculates up the org as, as we keep talking. But, uh, yeah, I think, you know, I'd rather win games than lose games, but I, I'm fine Nate: You and me both, brother. Uh, I think it's interesting. I think they prob- where I'm at with the Cardinals right now is that, like, this year they may or may not win. We'll see. they are willing to spend money, I think they could be a, we could be a, a [00:27:00] true competitive team in 2027. ben: So Nate: they may not be, though. They may wanna do another year of let's develop the homegrown and then add on, but we'll ben: I, I, uh, I wanted to ask Heim a question about, like, e- essentially the idea of how is it the, y- the Cardinals organization over the past 12 months is thinking about using money to acquire players in a different way than they were in the 20 years previous to that. But I, I, I kinda talked myself out of it because I thought he probably wouldn't wanna talk about the owners at all, and then also he doesn't wanna dunk on John Mozeliak. So I kinda talked myself back, but, uh, that just popped into my head. I, I, I kinda wish I, I shoulda just asked it. Nate: Wow. Well, we'll, we'll, ben: I'm a chicken Nate: in a, in a year, or maybe we can do it at a winter warmup when he's sitting directly next to the DeWitts. ben: Ooh, perfect Nate: Um, all right, let's talk about some of the players. Uh, we just as early as last week, uh, talked about [00:28:00] real concern for Mason Wynn. Uh, bat speed down, hard hit down. Basically everything you like down. Um, everything you don't like up. Uh, except for brilliant defense, that has been the case. We saw last night and even some incredible plays by Mason Wynn. but, uh, oh, maybe, uh, maybe la- this last week we're seeing some signs. He got his first dinger since, uh, middle of April, and it was a, it was a jack. So what are you, what are we seeing out of Mason Wynn right now? ben: Yeah I, you know, it's hard to say. It looks like if you look at the underlying numbers, he's probably getting a little bit lucky right now. Um, I don't really care. H- his bat speed has ticked up a little bit. It's in the low 70s. We love that. We, it pretty much you want it to be in between 70, and if you're a freak like Jordan Walker, around 80. But, uh, his bat speed has picked up a little bit. I think he seems a little more decisive. That home run, it was an inside pitch that he was somehow able to turn on, and that was several rows deep. So I, I [00:29:00] think just seeing him start to chug along a little bit more is a great sign. But he's finally put up a WRC+ above 100 in a week's time, which just felt like that was so far away. So I, I think it's a little of confidence. Like, sometimes they talk about, like, swing intent. From, like, just an eyeball view, it, he looks a little more aggressive and a little more in command at the plate. Um, a- and like I said, I think he's probably getting a little bit lucky. Uh, but I don't really care about that because the hits are starting to fall. Um, you know, we have, uh, uh... I, I feel a little more confident in him 'cause I think of him as, like... I, I think of him in his best form or when we've seen him be hot at the big league level as a guy who can spray hits. He can easily hit the ball to the opposite field, rack up some doubles, can put on that A+ swing 10, 15 times a year for a homer, and play some of the best shortstop defense I've ever seen. Nate: Yeah ben: Um, I also wanted to call out [00:30:00] that play that he made Tuesday night against the Rangers, uh, where he ranged, uh, very far to his right towards third base, uh, was able to snatch a huge hop, and then did his patented, you know, 95 mile- mile an hour off-balance throw where he almost knocks Alec Burlison back into the dugout. Um, so I don't know, may- uh, maybe there's just a little more confidence all over in Mason Wynn's game. The, the defense is looking great. I mean, we saw him make a couple of weird errors earlier in the year, and the bat's coming along, so Nate: Yeah ben: I'm digging it. I'm rocking with it. Nate: Yeah. Agreed. And I mean, obviously, um, the defense plays on its own. He certainly fits that role of it be nice if he carried around a 100 WRC+ or higher obviously, but wouldn't it be nice? But I think regardless, he's a starter anywhere in the league right now with that caliber defense. Um, [00:31:00] and it's just, it, it, it... I don't know. just, it's so much fun to watch, I guess, is ben: It is. Yeah Nate: From a pure enjoyment standpoint, um, it's hard to do better than, than Mason Wynn right now ben: It's good for TV Nate: Yeah. so we also saw Nelson Velazquez, the, the, uh, the story of spring training and, uh, many episodes of this podcast before he disappeared entirely. But he's back, he had a home run in his first pitch. fun was that? ben: That was fun. Um, I enjoyed it. I am happy that he got something. Uh, I'm, I'm happy he got to the bigs and, and this is happening. Nate: Yeah ben: also like t- not to take it away from Nelson Velazquez, the dude, but like I'm kind of just happy to see the Cardinals a couple of months into the season manipulating their roster a little bit and making some changes, and I think making [00:32:00] changes that make a little more sense for the team right now. I also think like the thing that I feel like we kept coming back to to talk about Nelson Velazquez is that he's 27, clearly has power. He has power in that bat. You saw that ball that he golfed out to, uh, to left field the other day, um, which was a jack if, if, if you happened to miss that, but he hit that ball extremely hard. Like I do think when you have a year like this, it is important to figure out what a 27-year-old power hitting right-handed sort of outfielder can do, and I like that they are making space for him to do that. Um, now the other side of that coin is that outfield production has been rough for a while now. Um, but they are recognizing that. They are making a change. They are doing all of the things that I just said in kind of one fell swoop. Um, you know, he is an interesting pl- he has interesting parts to his game. He has some pretty uninteresting parts to his game as well. [00:33:00] Um, but I love it, and of course for him to get rewarded so quickly, um, seems like he's going to be, uh, in the lineup when there's a lefty on the mound and probably your first bench off the bat when a tough lefty comes up. Nate: bench off the bat. ben: first ben- is that what I said? Nate: let you slip that one by. Um, he is kind of a bench. Um, yeah, so ben: He's Nate: got- ben: a little guy for a power guy. I like it Nate: Yeah. Um, him and Brian Torres seem to be in, uh, a bit of a, a platoon right now. Um, it is, I, I think the roster management side of it is interesting. You know, we basically saw them run more or less the exact same lineup for the first month and a half of the season, and that was partly because the production is, was working. Why, why bother, uh, to change it? Uh, but it was also because of health. Everyone was basically there every day, so why not [00:34:00] play them? But now, with Church out, you know, Newbar's coming back, we'll talk about that in a minute, Victor Scott, uh, not producing, um, y- we are starting to see, like, okay, these are the holes, right? I think really, uh, uh, the, it, now at almost Flag Day, the, the real marker of the season, you look at your team and you say, "The Cardinals' problems are center field, left field, and third base." Um, and now we're starting to see that shuffle. Let's bring guys in, let's move them around, let's see who actually sticks and potentially fixes that problem. Is it this of chunky left fielder, kind of left fielder? Maybe. Is it Torres? Maybe. But at least we're trying. Let's find out, you know? Uh, maybe it's just Newbar, and it'll just be Newt in a few days, and I don't know, want Torres gets sent back down and, and Velazquez, uh, platoons with him to give him days off his [00:35:00] feet. Um, or maybe it's the other way around, I don't know. Um, but I imagine one of them is about to lose their spot with, uh, with Newt coming back. ben: Yeah, it's hard to tell what makes the most sense. Brian Torres is a left-handed left fielder. Lars Nootbaar is a left-handed left fielder. Nate: Yeah ben: on just that, it, it makes sense Nate: me think it'll be Newt and Velasquez, um ben: the real question, a- and I'm sure the Cardinals are mulling this over, is do you think that Brian Torres is providing higher quality at-bats than José Fermín and/or Thomas Sajecy? Um, I think Fermín is probably stuck on the roster because he's out of options. Nate: Yeah ben: so if the Cardinals move on from him, they move on from him. Um, but let's stick it to Sajecy specifically. Who would you rather have at bat in a situation, [00:36:00] uh, off the bench, late in game, Sajecy or Brian Torres? I think I would go Brian Torres. Nate: too. ben: Sajecy gives you a little more defensive utility. Um, I don't know off the top of my head of... They're both decent speedsters. Um, I, I don't know. I, I think it's probably marginal, and I can't be bothered to look it up right now. Nate: H- I mean, how could we... Who, who could know that sort of thing anyway? ben: fine. Nate, vamp for a second. I'll look it up. I Nate: I ben: I don't Nate: in this day and age, we have such little access to information, and it's so hard to find it at a, at a, um, in a rapid environment. I would not expect you to be able to find this so quickly. ben: Yeah. All right. Uh, so Sijacy is about 27 feet per second. And oh my God, their, their speed is almost exactly the same. Um, so 27.5 for Torres, and 27.6 for Thomas [00:37:00] Sijacy. Nate: Okay. ben: Okay. Nate: faster, okay. So that's a ben: S- Sijacy's got him on speed, that's clear, and that's a separator. Nate: Uh-huh ben: but I think again, you know, you assume Newd is going to be starting every day. So then I think you do look at it, you know, through that lens. I also think that you could probably have Torres start in center field more than you would want Sijacy starting in center field. Nate: Yeah ben: You know, a- and it's kind of a bummer 'cause Sijacy just hit that home run. I think he's an ultimate vibes guy on the team. Clearly everybody likes him, and he can play around the infield. Um, but that would probably be my move. Nate: Yeah ben: Um, but I, I don't think I would dig my heels in aggressively if, if they go the other way either Nate: There is something to be said for solving or for understanding what you have a little more in some of these older players like a Torres and a, a Velasquez. Um, was Torres is 27 also and Sejaycee's what, 23 or ben: is, [00:38:00] 28. He's about to be 29. He is, uh, very close to turning 29. Velasquez is, I'm looking at it right now, uh, 27 and a half. Nate: And what is Sejaycee, like ben: 20- yeah, he's 24 Nate: Okay. So you feel like, well, he can ride the bus a little bit more, um, and Torres has had such a hot start to the season. Like, let's see if this is real, and maybe it is. You know, maybe it is one of those 29-year-old breakouts. It happens. It's happened on the Cardinals, you know, where, you know, they don't become superstars, right? But they become actual contributors, two, three WAR type players, maybe more if it's a, if it's a real breakout. Um, it could be that. Like, seems unlikely, but l- you know, now, now's the time to find out. This is the team to find out with. Um, and so I like that they're playing him, but I do think this is going to come to an end to some degree here shortly with Newbar coming back. ben: Yeah. Nate: you know ben: And I do think, like, e- even though I kind of just argued for [00:39:00] Sir Jacy to not be on the big league roster anymore, I do think that he is a better player than he has been so far. I think that there, there's clear defense v- versatility. He has popped in the minors before. I think there's more power in that bat. Um, and I don't know if it's just, like, his lack of playing time, lack of a true position. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't stolen more starts from, uh, Nolan Gorman, to be totally honest with you. Um, but, uh, he's just... I, I think it's super difficult to be a 24-year-old who is playing as sparingly as he is Nate: Yeah. I think so. We'll probably do... Let's give another week of Gorman at bats, and we'll take another deep dive on him next week. Um, yeah. ben: yeah. Nate: He had a dinger last night ben: He had a dinger last night, um, which was fun. Oppo taco too, that was great. Um, if Nolan Gorman could learn that his power plays to all fields and he could do that in Busch Stadium, um, at night, like that is not an easy place to do that. Nate: Right. ben: I, ugh,[00:40:00] Nate: Yeah. All right, let's move over to the pitching side of the ball here. Um, we, so last week when we recorded, we, we kind of had a break in the middle of the episode. Came back and talked about Dustin May's huge start, um, against the Brewers, and keeping it going. Uh, w- what, what are you seeing out of, out of May? You wanna run through some numbers here? ben: I mean, it looks like he's found something. O- over the past three starts, uh, he's thrown 18 innings, and he is striking people out now, Nate. Like, unlike he maybe ever has. I, I haven't looked at every three-game sample in his career, but when you look at his career numbers at the very least, um, it's, it's pretty exciting. Uh, his xERA, expected ERA, uh, over that same pe- time period, those 18 innings, those three starts, is 2.13, which is microscopic. He's striking out almost 34% of batters faced over those three starts, over 12 K per nine. It is [00:41:00] big boy numbers. Uh, and his location metrics for his breaking balls seem to be the indicator of why this has happened. They, uh, both his slider and curve ball have had significant jumps in the location, Location+ metric, which we highlighted a few weeks ago talking about Michael McGreevy. Um, it's kinda, I, I've been really obsessed with this stat and, and kind of seeing how it's progressing for the Cardinals this year has been interesting. Uh, but he's had huge jumps, like 20 points and 30 points on those pitches over this time period. So I think that he is locating those pitches better. I mean, if you just watch it, he's throwing that four-seam fastball kinda high, uh, even sometimes above the strike zone, and then you throw out of that same arm slot one of those two breaking balls, one obviously breaking more than the other, and hitters look bad against it. It is tough stuff. By the way, he still has one of the most insane sinkers I've ever seen. Um, so you know, I, I don't know [00:42:00] beyond that what's happening, but he looks good. He looks fluid. The ball ... I mean, he throws so hard. It's, it's been really fun to watch, and I, and I feel like he and the Cardinals have turned a corner from a production standpoint Nate: It's right now, in this very moment as we record on June 3rd, exactly what we were hoping would happen with Dustin May. Now, where this goes, how long this is sustainable, we don't know. That's part of baseball. Is he gonna stay healthy? Is he gonna continue to locate like this? Can he throw this hard for a full season without breaking? don't know. Uh, but so far, this is looking like a real win for the Cardinals, and for Dustin May, ben: Yes Nate: like a cool guy. Intense, you know? Um, but, uh, it's been fun. You and I talked about la- I think it was last week, like what do you do with Dustin May? He's on an ex- he's on essentially an expiring contract. [00:43:00] Now, he technically has a mutual option for like $12 million. Um, you know, but if he pitches even remotely like this for the rest of the season, he's looking at a pretty major payday. Um, and I, I-- We don't need to redo the whole conversation, but he's been looking so good, it makes me think that he might end up pitching himself out of, the price range that the Cardinals would be really be looking at for a pitcher right now with this team, and it might end up being back to they need to trade him, 'cause that's going to ultimately get the best return for the Cardinals, ben: Yeah. I, I think that that is probably-- I, I would be surprised if Heim Bloom is not already fielding early calls about teams acquiring Dustin May, asking h- them about his recent performance, what he's been working on, so on and so [00:44:00] forth. I also think, you know, you look at, um, his pitch counts over the season and, uh, he's highest he's gone on the year is 97. Uh, over these three games it's 91 pitches, 87 pitches, 90 pitches. Um, they are clearly, you know, they are trying to keep him healthy. They are trying to keep him effective. Obviously him looking healthy and effective is good for the Cardinals, good for Dustin May, good for everybody. Nate: Yep. ben: it's all smart, but I, I think that they're using him in a way that that makes sense. Um, yeah, and it's always like I-- You know, you get attached to these guys so quickly and, and like I kinda hate the idea of the Cardinals bringing in a guy and helping him, you know, reach m- closer to his potential and, and then shipping him off. But it is a shrewd, smart baseball move and, and lots of teams do this. What would the Rays do in this situation? Um, they'd probably move the guy. What would the Dodgers do in this situation? They'd probably retain him, and w- I don't think we know how the Cardinals are gonna behave, Nate: Yeah ben: situation yet, but I, I think it'll be very telling. And, [00:45:00] uh, it also probably comes down to the fact, you know, if a team that's desperate for pitching, uh, calls you and offers you a Mr or Mrs High Prospect, uh, you probably jump at that and, you know, keep going, and you can always sign Dustin Mrs. Meadows, uh, playing shortstop Nate: Um, yeah, I think the Dodgers, if they were in the same position as the Cardinals somehow, uh, but have the resources, they trade him then sign him this off-season. ben: him back, yeah. Nate: Yeah. Which is ben: and I think, like, Nate: an option ben: it, it's also, like, and again, I'm, I'm kinda projecting wildly, but you know, one of the reasons he decided to join with the Cardinals is because starting pitcher, uh, health over the last year, um, which is, knock on wood, has continued. We have not missed a start due to health reasons of our starting staff so far this year. So what are they doing? I don't know. Um, but you could see, uh, there's a, there's a [00:46:00] scenario where I don't have to bend over too far backwards to be like, "Oh yeah, he came here, got better, stayed healthy. We traded him. Maybe we bring him back." Maybe it's more than, uh, any of us previously thought Dustin May would cost, but we'll, we'll see how that goes Nate: Yeah, I mean, what'll he be 29 next year with a year with, with anything like what he's doing right now if he does a whole healthy year in the price of pitching now? I mean, price of anything. Well, it's what's happening now is he'll probably get a two-year, $90 million contract next year or something like that, ben: You think Dustin May's gonna get 45 a year? Nate: I'm just saying the way they're going now, you know, where it's ben: Shrinkflation, I get Nate: Yeah, yeah. ben: I'm hip Nate: We used to make things in this country. Um, all right, let's talk about another success. Uh, George Soriano. is he the, is he the closer? ben: You know, obviously it's easy to say that with the week that Riley O'Brien's had. He's, he's gotten doinked around a little [00:47:00] bit too much and, uh, it's really easy to hate on a reliever when they look bad over a week, 'cause it always looks so bad and Riley Bri- O'Brien's at the end of the, uh, end of the game. It's, it's just very, very visible. But I will say, um, this guy who I had never heard of has come in and is absolutely disgusting. Have we talked about how he tucks one of his ears into his, uh, hat? Nate: no we have not. ben: I mean, you gotta like that. You gotta like Nate: like that. ben: the Nate: hold ben: 99, you know, at the top of the zone. Nate: My ben: And I, I mean, that changeup is one of... Nate: I'm wearing ben: I think you need more hat or more ear, my guy. Or less head. Nate: I that's, I think the, I think the head might be a bit too tall there, Hambone, and not enough spa- yeah ben: but his pitch, that changeup grades out as one of the best in [00:48:00] baseball. We've seen the plus stuff. We've seen the slider. Um, the dude's absolutely filthy. We have him for the foreseeable future. Um, he's tamed down his walks that were problems for him earlier in the season and, and in seasons past. Um, I have a lot of faith in Soriano right now Nate: I- I've s- I said this before when we talked about him last, and I'll say it again. I think out even above and beyond the player himself, who's been pretty incredible, um, what a reassuring, uh, piece to look at when you wonder about the of the new front office. they plucked this guy from the Nationals, what looked like an overpay, um, which frankly, like as far as rankings go, it was. Everyone thought, um, our slider king was better than their slider king, and it was a weird deal. And, uh, now look at it. So, ben: And, Nate: uh, pretty cool ben: I, th- a number I, I'd like to [00:49:00] highlight really quick is his, the stuff plus rating on his changeup from '23 until this year. I'm, I'm just gonna do it really quick. 2023, it had a 92 rating. This is 100 being average. Uh, it had a 92 rating. In 24, a 92 rating. '25, a 104 rating. Nice improvement. So far in 2026, a 116. 16 per- that, Nate: Yeah ben: average. So not only did the Cardinals identify somebody that brought him in, they liked his stuff, he has either decided to or the Cardinals have helped or instructed him or they've worked together somehow to make his stuff even better, and I think that is super exciting. Not only finding guys that can do things, but then improving upon that skill set is what the best teams in baseball do, and, uh, that's very cool Nate: Yeah, you wanna be the type of team that when someone, when your player gets acquired by that team, you're like, "Shit, what'd we miss?" [00:50:00] You know, people, we do that with the Dodgers, we do that with the Rays. It's like every time these teams acquire someone, you're like, "Ah." ben: Yeah. Nate: The Brewers, ben: Yep. Nate: uh, do it. Kyle ben: Andrew Vaughn will just forever make me so angry. Nate: Well, now Kyle Harrison ben: I, Nate: looks ben: he did, he had 12 strikeouts in, like, five and a third innings yesterday Nate: he, he looks like one of the best pitchers in baseball right now. I mean, he was a very high regarded prospect then just ben: like three organizations ago Nate: Yeah. Has bounced around, lands with the Brewers, and now he's right behind Mizerowski making their stupid team look s- stupid good. So Cardinals used to be that way, right? We go back to the Dave Duncan era, the late Tony La Russa era. That was the whole, they called it the Cardinal Devil Magic, you know? And it was mostly finding old dudes who come in and, and, uh, you know, give us better serviceable, uh, outcomes than anyone expected. Uh, so if the new Cardinals can do what these other teams are doing, which is finding the young guys who are, uh, [00:51:00] actually good, you know, it's much more valuable than getting an extra season out of, uh, John Lackey or whatever it might be. ben: Man, that John Lackey year was great though. Nate: was ben: that was a good time. Nate: minimum, ben: Yeah Nate: 'cause I care a lot about how much d- Bill DeWitt has, how much ben: Yeah. That's the most important part Nate: Um, well, uh, on top of that, so speaking of another pitcher the Cardinals went out and got, Hunter Dobbins back from injury, starting to get back into the game. We saw him with a, know, a reminder to people who don't follow every day how the, the other way you can earn a save, which is pitching three or more innings at the end of the game, uh, while carrying a lead. We saw him come in and surprise, do four innings. Uh, what'd you take, what'd you think on, uh, Hunter Dobbins? ben: Really, really happy with everything. I mean, that, the fastball's legit. Um, I think sinker, slider, curve all look great. Um, I think he's clearly has the stuff to be a Major League starter. But to see him come out, [00:52:00] the Cardinals only used two pitchers in that game. He throws 61 pitches. He gives up one run, that homer, the first batter he faces, and then locks it down. Um, I, I like this idea for giving the bullpen a break. Um, I like this idea of just getting a guy who you think is a future part of your team into games and situations that make sense for him. I think that, you know, 61 pitches is probably not as much as you would want from your starter. Uh, but a guy who's coming back to being healthy recently, a guy who you think has the stuff to pitch in the major, Major Leagues, and find - being creative and finding a way to get him those opportunities, I love everything about it. Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that if one of our pitchers ever do get injured, which just seems like is not on the menu right now, uh, but if that ever does happen, Dobbins is gonna pop up and, and probably take that start going forward. Um, but I love it. Um, like I said, the creativity, the, the utilization, all of it, just great Nate: [00:53:00] Yeah Yeah. I, I imagine he's going to, um, be in the rotation sooner rather than later and, uh, I, I'm excited. Just, it's just fun to see another, a new pitcher too. Um, ben: Actually one that sits like 97. Like, that's just some pure gas. I love it Nate: Yeah. 100%. Um, all right. Uh, so you, you've been, we, we've been talking about the strikeout percentage, the K percentage from this team for a while now, for years frankly. Dustin May, Dobbins, of these other guys. Are we seeing a switch here, Hambo? Are we finally seeing the team catch up with the, with the rest of the league? ben: I don't know, but this is the first time we have been able to say this on the podcast, maybe since we've started the podcast, Nate. Uh, the Cardinals, uh, the first, uh, up until May, uh, the beginning of last month, uh, they were 30th in MLB in strikeout percentage. Uh, [00:54:00] over the entire month of May and the first couple of games in June, they have been 13th in MLB. They have jumped up 17 spots, Nathan Nate: Pretty good. I mean, there ben: It's... Nate: to go but up, but that's a ben: There was nowhere to go but up. But isn't that stunning? Is, are you shocked? I was shocked when I saw that Nate: Yeah. I g-- It's like, ben: And I'm watching every game and I was still surprised by that. Yeah Nate: Well, it's Liberatore too, right? So it's ben: Yep Nate: May. Is this just starters or is this bullpen too? ben: It, no, this is entire staff Nate: Okay. Libby, May, uh, Soriano, JoJo's been on fire ben: Yeah, JoJo's been aces Nate: Yeah. So I guess it doesn't-- You just need a few guys striking people out to be middle. But th- this is just them making it into the middle of the pack, basically. ben: But that for us, that's huge Nate: it is huge. It is huge. That's funny[00:55:00] ben: So I'm, I'm happy to be here. Uh, if you wanna be annoyed about something, um, I, I just thought this, this was interesting. Over the same time, uh, the Brewers have had a 28% strikeout rate. Uh, they are striking out as a team over a quarter of all batters faced. Uh, they are the best in baseball at that right now. So if you wanna be mad about something, there you go. Nate: Well, we just talked about it. ben: Yeah, Nate: Mizeracki, ben: I know Nate: I'm increasingly believing what you've been saying, which is, uh, that dude's arm is gonna explode ben: gonna explode, and I'm not gonna be happy about it, but it's gonna happen. You just, you can't do that Nate: You can't do that. ben: It's, it's against the rules Nate: It's ben: of life Nate: This is what we do now. That's the rule. ben: This is the goal now Nate: now we're just doing someone else's bit Okay. Uh, how do you wanna... We, we gotta, there's been a number of ben: let me Nate: [00:56:00] actions over the last week on the team. Roster movements ben: I'll just bang through these and then we can talk about Jimmy for a quick second. Nate: Okay ben: Uh, uh, Push Hard, Push Hard has been DFA'd. See ya. Jimmy Crooks got recalled from the minors, seems to be our starting catcher now. We already talked about Nelson Velazquez is back, or is on the Cardinals team. Joél Pozo is optioned to the minors, as is César Prieto. I don't think any of those moves are surprising other than the fact that they actually made the move to get Pozo back down to the minors. And Jimmy Crooks, uh, like I said, you know, according to, uh, Mr. Marmol and Mr. Bloom, uh, appears to be the primary catcher going forward. I am obviously excited about this move. Um, I, I think he's looked good behind the plate so far. Um, and I'm just waiting for him to pop a couple of homers, which I think are gonna come here very soon. Um, but very pleased with the move. Um, something that Heim mentioned when we were talking to him is that [00:57:00] Pedro, uh, Pages has only been nothing but, like, a super pro about the idea of him being the third-string catcher on a team with three catchers, and it sounds like we're gonna keep with, uh, Ivan catching, uh, a couple of times a week. So I'm quite pleased with this. What I thought was really interesting is that Jimmy Crooks got a, a, a turn at DH. Um, bless you, Nate. Nate: Thank you. I don't know if that would've been picked up in the microphone, uh, but thank you ben: got a, got a turn at DH, uh, which I thought was cool just to see him, uh, them kind of value his bat in that way. But, uh, yeah, pretty, pretty interesting news Nate: Yeah. I, uh, also excited. We've been talking about, like, look, P- Pedro Pagés is exactly what you want as a backup catcher at the Major League level. Really no criticism about him in that role. Um, but he had not been that. He'd been the starter for the St. Louis Cardinals, and so a lot of us had been saying, uh, "When's it gonna, when's the time to [00:58:00] transition to Crooks or, or even, you know, are we just waiting for Bernal at this point? Like, what is the, what is the plan here?" Uh, and so it's, it's fun and it's exciting to see Crooks come up and be, you know, given this opportunity. Um, I think now we find ourselves in a weird spot where, uh, Pagés is arguably in the worst position he could be in, uh, which is backup backup catcher and bench bat, you know? Which not really ideal for his profile. I mean, I know he can get behind one every once in a while, which is a archetype of a bench bat, but not, he doesn't do it at such a prolific degree that you really feel like, "Oh, well, he'll give you a pinch hit home run every five to 10 times." Like, I don't really feel that way. It's like he might do it every 20 times, you know? Otherwise, he's gonna strike out or, you know. Again, he, he's, there's worse offensive players than him, but, ben: Yeah Nate: he, it... So you, so ben: It Nate: now we're in the Pozo situation. It's [00:59:00] like, well, what is Pagés actually doing on this roster? ben: I will say if I had to pick a backup catcher, I think I would rather have somebody who leans more to- towards the defensive A side than the pop a homer off the bench side. Um, and, you know, you, you see, we saw an interesting way for the Cardinals to utilize this last night in the game against the Rangers. Jimmy Crooks gets a hit. He gets pinch ran for by one of the guys off the ba- off the bench, and then Pedro Pages comes in as catcher, and you have no confidence loss in your defensive catcher at that point. I, I think that's a smart way to utilize it, and hopefully Jimmy gets hitting and, um, that kind of scenario's coming up more than not, 'cause he, he ain't a runner. Nate: That, ben: uh Nate: that is such a specific s- situation though too, to ben: It is Nate: 'Cause your actual backup catcher is Ivan Herrera, right? ben: Right Nate: if Jimmy Crooks gets hurt in a game, Herrera, well, if, if you had your team rostered like a normal team would, Herrera would [01:00:00] slide over to catcher and someone would, else would DH or whatever. ben: And no, you lose your DH when that happens. Nate: DH. Yeah. ben: and then the pitcher has to hit. Meaning you have to pinch, which means you have to pinch hit for that guy, Nate: Yeah ben: I do think that that scenario is probably gonna happen one time this season if you don't have Pedro Pages on the team. Nate: Right. ben: hopefully it doesn't happen at all. But, uh, I agree, I think I would run that risk. I would be fine with that. Nate: Yeah ben: also, you know, if you do move on from Pedro Pages, who I believe should be traded to another team, 'cause I think that he is a valuable baseball player for a team that does not have as many catchers as we do. Um, if you come to that scenario, uh, you are telling José Fermín that he is now your emergency catcher, and he's figuring that shit out. Um, that's, that's how that scenario goes. Nate: was, Brendan Donovan forever, and it's not like he was actual... I mean, he probably caught in high school or whatever, 'cause he ben: Yeah. Nate: on the team, and the best player on the team played every position, you know? There's, there's a, there's a guy on the [01:01:00] team right now, is it Fermin or whoever, that will suit up and sit back there and, and catch, you know, and do his ben: Yeah Nate: or whatever, you know. Um, and that's just where it's like, so Pages unfortunately just doesn't make sense from a roster construction, uh, point on this team right now. Um, but I imagine they'll carry it for a little while just to really confirm is the starter? Is he, is he co- is he comfortable enough at the Major League level? Um, and I think we're all hopeful that he is, and then maybe when the deadline is getting a little bit closer and teams are looking to optimize, ben: Yeah Nate: even your backup catcher is a critical role in the playoffs, some team will say, "Okay, Pages is the right, you know, guy for us." 'Cause ben: Yeah, Nate: agree. He should ben: I'll tell you what, Nate: on a team ben: I have very high expectations for Jimmy Crooks on the offense and defensive side. I, I think he's gonna be excellent defensively. I'm v- it's only ever been extremely positive evaluations on [01:02:00] that side of the ball. Um, and we'll see where the bat comes along. But I, my expectations are high. I can't wait to watch him play every day Nate: Yeah, same. all right, the, the wrap up, just, uh, Church and Urias are hopeful to restart or to start rehab assignments soon. Um, so they're gonna have some interesting decisions. I don't think we need to talk all about them right now. We've kind of been touching on them this whole episode, but you've got Church, Newt, and Urias all very likely back in the next week to two weeks, you know, depending on how these rehab assignments go ben: I think the big question is gonna be does Victor Scott keep his job or not? But yeah, we'll, we'll talk about that when they start coming back Nate: Yes, sir. All right. Well, we are going to talk about the upcoming series, talk a little bit about some league news, and then of course play a little game. Um, but before we get to that, we wanna remind our listeners that this show is listener [01:03:00] supported on patreon.com. Patreon.com/talkingaboutbirds. You can find links to all the different tiers of membership. Uh, subscribers at any of the paid levels get access to our private Discord. That is the Birdscord we talk about on the show quite regularly. Uh, I really think, like, the future of social media is in, sort of closed groups like this, groups of people that you actually want to talk to and spend time with, uh, and not just the vague of X or Blue Sky or whatever, where you just are posting and hoping people, uh, respond, and not bots and stuff. Uh, and that's what we're building in this little community. It's, uh, it's, uh, listeners of the show and some other people from around the, uh, podcast community and blog community that are in here, and, uh, it's a good place to talk to other Cardinal fans, other baseball fans, catch up on the news and, and we're chatting during games. We're basically, almost every game, both of us [01:04:00] and others are in the, in the Discord, like, actively hanging out while the games are going, and it's been a fun. It's been a real addition to watching baseball. Um, so if you wanna join, patreon.com/talkingaboutbirds. Uh, and or if you just wanna support the show directly, um, we truly appreciate anyone and everyone that is currently subscribing. Uh, if you c- uh, want another way to help the show, take a couple minutes to review the podcast on your favorite podcast platform. It's very quick, and it actually does help us. and of course, tell your friends, tell your family. Uh, Hambone, where else can people find us online? ben: Yeah, we're on those stupid, outdated social media platforms. Nate: But we don't ben: Blu- Nate: that much. ben: ah, we're terrible at this, yeah. Nate: we do, the ben: Yeah. Nate: you know, so check ben: We're, Nate: on those. ben: I think we're bad at running a podcast generally Nate: Whatever. the one. ben: Okay. That's cool. Um, our, yeah, we got Blue Sky, Instagram, TikTok, of course. You can, uh, check us out and watch this [01:05:00] episode on YouTube if you're one of those people. Got, uh, my little kitty in the background again if you're a cat freak. You freak. Um, you can find all the podcast information, including T-shirts and more at talkingaboutbirds.com. Of course, you can email us at talkaboutbirds@gmail.com. And as always, you can call us and leave a voicemail or send a text message to 848-48-BIRDS. That's 848-482-4737 Nate: 848, 48 Birds. Um, all right. the Reds are coming to St. Louis for three games. We just ben: Ooh, Lord. Yep Nate: Um, maybe the biggest thing since we saw the Reds is that Elly De La Cruz, who was on an MVP pace, is on the IL. Um, so that is a huge blow to that team. Um, but basically the story of the Reds remains the same. [01:06:00] can, uh, in any game, can score 100 runs, strike out 100 times, someone out 100 times, or give up 100 runs. It's like any game, that is the potential outcome. Uh, they are currently last in the Central, but still above 500 'cause of how the Central is playing. They are 31 and 19, and they are the only team in the NL Central with a worse run differential than the St. Louis Cardinals ben: Yeah. Um, I, I think the one other, uh, big injury, uh, that is different from last time we played them is that Graham Ashcraft, who was having a ridiculous season in the bullpen for them, is just got put on the 60-day IL. So, um, they are weakened. They've called up a number of pitchers from Triple-A. Uh, Rhett Lowder has rejoined the rotation, who by the way just got kind of knocked around by the, uh, Memphis Redbirds. Joshua Baez and crew kind [01:07:00] of spanked him around. Uh, so it looks like for the Friday game we're gonna have Brady Singer against Kyle Leahy. Uh, Saturday it's gonna be Nick Lodolo and Matthew Liberatore, the two lefties going at it. Uh, and then Sunday, Rhett Lowder, who I just mentioned, against Michael McGreevy. Feel pretty good about our pitching match-ups in all three of those games. Um, we're missing Chase Burns again, who is, uh, a freak of nature. And man, if you have not watched a Chase Burns start, go watch a Chase Burns start. He is damn good at baseball. Uh, but yeah, other than that, I, I think like you said, it's, it's kind of the same story. Um, they are a boom or bust team who is kind of busting right now, um, especially with the pitching. Nate: I'm ben: makes me feel good. Nate: Let me tell you something. ben: Best line of any song ever Nate: Uh-huh. Um, uh, all right, so what was I gonna say? Oh, uh, Lodolo. ben: Yeah Nate: I'm [01:08:00] just wa- like, I am a real believer in Lodolo. He's been-- he missed the first half part of the season, hasn't quite put it together. But I feel like at any point we're gonna see a Lodolo, like, 12 strikeout game. So keep an ben: Take, Nate: for ben: I'm taking Liby over Lodolo all day if I have to pick National League, uh, weird status lefties starters. Or National League Central. Nate: M- maybe just those, yeah, just those two guys. Uh, I, I think I also take, uh, Liberatore right now. ben: Yeah Nate: I'm just saying, you know, Lodolo has been very, very good at, at times in his career. ben: He has. He has Nate: Uh, all right, after that, the Cardinals go to New York City for three g- uh, we call it New Dork City, uh, ben: I call it New Dork City. Nate: New Dork Shitty, baby. The ben: Got 'em Nate: Uh, the, they're going to play the Mets for three games. Um, I mean, I just always want to laugh at the Mets. There's a, [01:09:00] there's a, um, a petition going on now for people to start boycotting Citi Field, which, uh, I'm, I'm boycotting it this weekend. Hammond, are you boycotting Citi? ben: I plan on it, yes Nate: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's so much fun to laugh at the Mets. Uh, they are currently, uh, in last place in the East, 26 and 35. Uh, they have almost the exact same run differential as your St. Louis Cardinals, so we can't, we, we shouldn't laugh too hard. Um, but they are in last and, um, you know, they're kind of in crisis mode over there because they have spent million more on their team, uh, than the St. Louis Cardinals have ben: I was just gonna say, uh, not that I really care about this all that much, but the dollar per run is definitely in the favor of the Cardinals right now Nate: Yeah. so what are the, what are the pitching matchups, uh, that ben: Yeah, Nate: get? ben: uh, looks like for game one, scheduled, we'll see if this actually happens, but Kodai Senga is supposed to come back from the IL. [01:10:00] That was good. Against, uh, our new ace, Dustin May. Uh, Wednesday game is gonna be Freddy Peralta against Andre Pallante. Um, and then the Thursday game is Christian Scott against Kyle Leahy. Uh, Christian Scott is, uh, he's been pitching pretty well for the New York Mets. Nate: Yeah ben: Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I, I don't really have too much to add other than the bullpen hasn't been great. Uh, their rotation has been injured, and, like, is Brett Beatty even a Major League Baseball player? I don't know. I thought Mark Vientos was gonna be legit, and it doesn't seem to be the case. Nate: Yeah ben: Juan Soto is healthy and playing well, so that's something to consider and to be mildly afraid of. Um, but outside of that, this team has been underperforming like crazy. And, uh, I mean, Jared Young is their projected DH going into this game, uh, which I, I think should tell everybody a lot of [01:11:00] what they need to know about this team. N- Their four-hitter Nate: yeah, it's crazy. You look, you're like, "Oh, they're one of the most high- the highest paid team in baseball." And it's like, where is it? Carson Benge, Bo Bichette, Juan Soto, Jared Young, Vientos, Beatty, Simeon, A.J. Ewing, Lori- Luis Torrens. It's like, all right, ben: So Nate: and Bichette are, are what? Combined $95 million or whatever. Um, ben: On their IL right now is, it's unbelievable. Francisco Alvarez, Jorge Polanco, Francisco Lindor, Ronnie Mauricio, Luis, uh, Luis Robert Jr., Tyrone Taylor, Clay Holmes, Tyler McGill, Kodai Senga, who should be back. I mean, that is, Nate: yeah it's ben: that might be the Cardinals' entire, uh, team salary just on the IL there, right there. Yeah Nate: Um, so yeah, they're, they're fun to laugh at. I am a big believer in AJ Ewing, their, uh, their young guy they just called up. I think he's going to be pretty good. Carson Benge will also [01:12:00] probably be pretty good, though he has struggled. Um, so there's some pieces in here that I think they're developing that could be good in the future, but, uh, right now they're not a particularly good team, and I think, uh, the Cardinals should play well. But you never know on the road, Citi Field, et cetera. ben: Yeah Nate: fan, it might be like a home game for the Cardinals right now with the way their fans are feeling. ben: We'll take it Nate: Yep. Um, all right, Hambone, so those are the series. Let's do some league news ben: All right, uh, yeah, we can knock through these. Uh, Joe Adell, this is my favorite story of the week. Joe Adell, uh, pulls a José Canseco, uh, misses a fly ball hit by your Colorado Rockies, um, bounces off of his head and over the fence. Nate: so good. Is there any ben: Oh. Nate: where something like this can happen? Where it can go from what should be the best outcome, which is an out, to the absolute worst outcome [01:13:00] by bouncing off someone's head? I don't know. Maybe in f- I guess in, like, football, you know, the ball ben: Yeah. Nate: around a ben: I, Nate: bit ben: like scoring a goal in your own net in hockey or soccer or something. Nate: own ben: yeah, Nate: Yeah. ben: But the, none of them look as stupid as this one looks Nate: I know, it's so... I've probably watched this 24 times in the last, like, six hours. ben: Yeah. Nate: so funny. And then, of course, the added wrinkle of the whole thing, which is this is the same guy who robbed three home runs in a single game ben: Oh, I Nate: like, a month ago. ben: I didn't think... So he's, he's still minus two right now, which is good Nate: Yeah, yeah, he's, he's cont- he's saved more home runs than he's given up. But what a, what a whirlwind of press for this guy. ben: Yeah Nate: it's... How can you not be romantic about baseball? ben: Yeah Nate: watch the clip and you will just think this is the most beautiful sport that there's ever been. ben: Um, while we're talking about the Rockies for a second, you see T.J. Romfeld just won, [01:14:00] uh, the Rookie of the Month? Nate: No, I did not, but I know ben: Yeah. Nate: hitting ben: He's been hitting. I don't buy it, but we'll take it. Nate: baby. Are we on our way? ben: The Rockies are better this year. Nate: They are ben: You c- you can't argue that. We are, we are a better team than we were. Um, all right. The Blue Jays, uh, outfielder Jesus Sanchez had to exit a game versus the Orioles after being hit by a ball thrown from the stands by a fan. Did you see this, Nate? Nate: did see this, but I didn't look into it too much. I saw it happen, but I didn't see what ac- like, what's the injury? Was it just he was just so surprised that he needed to leave the game, or did he actually get hurt from it? ben: Seems like there's a contusion or something going on with his wrist. Essentially, he lo- it looked like he waved for the kid to play catch with him. Uh, and I guess the kid didn't notice or, or react quick enough. Jose, uh, or sorry, uh, Jesus Sanchez looked the other way, and the kid threw the ball at him. It hit him, and he had to be taken out of the game, which is-- I mean, this guy gets hit by [01:15:00] 95 mile an hour fastballs on occa- Like, I was very confused by this. There might be more to it than has been reported or that I've read so far. But I found this to be an odd-- I don't think I've ever heard of this happening. Nate: I think he was embarrassed. Get ben: it's embarrassing. Nate: get me out, coach. ben: Rub some dirt on it. Nate: Yeah. I was a little surprised he had to leave the game too. Um, ben: Yeah. Odd Nate: yeah. Did they s- did, did they give the kid a contract? ben: Yeah, maybe he's Henry Rowengartner from the, uh, uh, the Rookie of the Year movie. Uh, yeah. He, he broke his arm and then it overhealed is how it happened? It healed too good Nate: Yeah he, it, it like, fuses a tendon or something so it, it like snaps now and, and yeah. ben: It's a good movie Nate: to re-watch, uh, the Rookie of the Year and Angels in the Outfield are ben: Yeah Nate: core childhood ben: We watch those a lot. Nate: Yeah. I have re-watched Sandlot, uh, in, in the recent [01:16:00] years. Uh, but I haven't re-watched any of those. I, I wonder how they hold up. I, I love a, a Busey f- uh, film though, you know. Uh, ben: Yeah. Nate: Busey, big part of, uh, of Rookie of the Year. ben: Yeah. Uh, oh, wait. I thought it was Marv from "Home Alone." Nate: Daniel ben: They're both in it. Nate: in ben: He's the equipment manager. Nate: he gets ben: Yeah. Nate: in ben: Okay. Nate: two doors at a ben: That's-- Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's, that's good. That's funny. I'm still laughing at that. Nate: is the, like, aging ben: pitcher, yeah. Nate: pitcher, throws the high stinking cheddar. ben: Pre-motorcycle accident Gary Busey. Okay. Nate: worse Busey. ben: Yeah, sure. Nate: He got better ben: all right. Uh, MLB proposes a salary cap of 245.3 million and a floor of 171.2 million. Nate, what do you think of this proposed solution by the MLB to the Players Association? Nate: It's, it's very interesting. That floor is much higher than I think a lot [01:17:00] of us anticipated it to ben: That's how I felt about this too, yes Nate: Um, I've said this before, the most, I think the most interesting thing about this whole dynamic that unlike almost all previous CBA expe- or at least ones in recent memory, I- it's been very easy as a fan to be on the side of the players. this is going to be a situation where I think most fans are going to side with the owners, uh, who are trying to... Most fans, right or wrong, want a salary cap. Um, and the Players Association does not, for obvious reasons. They, they, they, their job, they're like fiduciarily bound to, uh, argue in benefit of the players, and it is clear that the players benefit from no salary cap. That's obvious. Um, but basically everyone else in the world wants a salary cap in baseball. So it'll be really interesting to see how this ex- this [01:18:00] goes. I think, I, I do think MLB is recognizing that, uh, and throwing a bone to the players by proposing such a high floor. Um- ben: W- I think that's the most interesting part is that this-- that floor like can-- are the Royals and the A's and, uh, Minnesota, Cle- I mean, basically the entire AL and NL Centrals, uh, Miami, um, like are these teams going to-- are they gonna agree to raising the floor of their salary? Also, how do they get around this? Like, are there weird loopholes? Like, can you pay your s- your CEO and president $10 million a year and have that added to the cap? You know, like how is this all gonna shake out I wonder. But I, I think it is very interesting to see the ca- that floor. I also don't understand like the economics of baseball enough to like... On-- from my point of view, without doing much research or having a, a [01:19:00] deep understanding, that sounds like players would be getting more money because you'd have more teams spending at least $171.2 million. Um, but obviously the players are against this for a reason. Um, if somebody knows the answer to that and can explain it better to me, I'd love to hear that. Nate: it, it is because it, it stops the high end. It, it l- like, yes, it, it does lift the floor for a lot of people and on, I think on average, I saw something, and I could be wrong here 'cause a lot of these numbers we're throwing around right now, but this would increase the average salary for, uh, Major League Baseball players by a pretty good margin. But the Players Association is lobbying for everyone, and it would reduce the high end for, for the high-end players, which is what most peop- most people want, right or wrong. There's arguments on, for, for either side of that. I don't think we can, wanna get into that. But, like, the, the, the [01:20:00] Players Association wants to argue for everyone, Right. ben: If, if you're a union, it makes sense to me to wanna protect your highest earners and have them continue to set a new bar. But it seems like, uh, you know, a rising tide raises all boats, and getting more money to the people who need it more, the lower-- the, quote-unquote, "lower and middle class" MLB players seems like a bigger win. 'Cause, like, if you're making, you know, as much money as Dustin May is gonna make next year, $45 million a year, is it really important that you get to 55? Or is it more important that Carson Benge, in his first time through arbitration, collects five more million dollars or whatever? You know what I mean? Like- Nate: So th- this is the opening offer. My assumption is that both of these numbers are gonna go out from the direction that they are in. ben: Yeah Nate: I think that the, uh, th- there will be a number that both the teams will agree on. I, I... This will end with a salary cap is [01:21:00] my ben: You think so? Nate: Yes. The, the owners it and are signaling that they will lock out. The players are also signaling that they will walk out. But they're, just like you've been saying, it's a two-way street. There is a number here, and m- I suspect that it will end up being a ceiling that is much higher than this, that does cap it long term, you know, but will prevent some of this disparity. Um, just not right now, you know. it'll be like floor, 350 cap or something like that, so you just don't end up with these $300 million differences, $400 million differences ben: Yeah Nate: that we're heading towards. The Dodgers will still be the Dodgers. The Yankees will still be the Yankees. But at least there will be teams not spending 40 or ben: Yeah Nate: you know. ben: Yeah. I wonder, Nate: guess. ben: if there was a cap of 245.3 right now, how many [01:22:00] teams, and there was no, like, uh, a disadvantage of going up to that number, how many teams would actually be up there and how many teams would not? Nate: Yeah ben: all right. Uh, last thing I wanted to mention is that yet again, the Rangers are the only team in MLB not to host a Pride Night, and I just wanted to say happy Pride to everybody. Nate: Yes. ben: and Nate: f- ben: Rangers baseball sucks. Nate: yeah, fuck the ben: I hope they beat them tonight Nate: Can you imagine in 2026 still being that guy? ben: Um, could I imagine? No. Uh, am I surprised that that team, um, is doing what they're doing? No. No, I'm not Nate: Yeah we give a lot of shit to the ownership groups. We do not give nearly enough shit to the Texas Rangers for their, the regressive overall nature of their establishment. So, uh, fuck those guys. Um, yeah, that's how I feel. ben: Yep. Nate: Yep. ben: I, yeah. Uh, yeah. There, there it is. There's some complexities beyond that, Nate: Sure. Sure.[01:23:00] ben: but we don't need to dive into that right now Nate: there, there's a lot of ways you can think about it, but at the end of the day, 29 other teams do it. So by not doing it, it is a clear choice. ben: Yeah, you look pretty stupid Nate: Yes. Yes. Um, now you could argue all theme nights are dumb and it's silly that we do this sort of ben: Sure. Nate: which is a... ben: being alive is silly. If y- you know, Nate: Yeah. ben: it, like this whole experiment, yeah Nate: argument that there should be no individual nights for things, you know? But that's not the world that we're in, ben: Except for Diet Pepsi night or Coke night or whatever that was. Nate: night. ben: Yeah. That's the only one we like Nate: Yeah, we do love a Diet... Coke night ben: All right, that's all I got, Nate Nate: All right, Hambone. Uh, I was thinking, you know, even though you and I have been, um, pretty positive still, this episode was overall positive, the opening bit implied that people are, are, you know, having less fun. It's the vibes are hurt right now. Uh, so I thought it might be fun to just remember some of our best vibes [01:24:00] guys, some of our most fun guys. So we're gonna do a little draft. Draft Day Vibes Guys. ben: Okay Nate: are going to do a draft of our favorite Cardinals players, I think maybe of the last... Well, however you wanna do it, however you wanna ben: Okay Nate: um, of you're building a roster of, like, the most fun guys, ben: Okay Nate: And we're each gonna do four, okay? ben: Okay. Nate: Um, so who are your vibes guys? If you're just... You know, you can think of this as your, as your, your, uh, circle, you know? Your, your, uh, your... What's the... Your, your pass the circ- Well, you know what I'm trying to say. Uh, ben: Uh, blunt rotation Nate: blunt rotation, thank you. You know, you could kinda call it that, but it's, uh, it's vibes guys. ben: Okay Nate: um, who are you gonna take? And this is a draft, ben: Yeah Nate: okay? So who are you gonna take for your vibes guys? ben: [01:25:00] Okay, is it me first? Nate: Yep ben: Okay, I think my first overall pick, um, and this might bring a chaotic and, uh, maybe some people won't like the vibe that I'm trying to cultivate in my dream blunt rotation, is, uh, I'm going Brendan Ryan for my first overall pick Nate: I had him on my, I, I for sure, you know, Brennan Ryan, uh, classic weirdo, right? Classic weirdo. Um, ben: Yeah. Nate: yeah, if you didn't take him, I was. I don't think he was gonna be my number one overall. I kinda thought he might s- slip through a ben: Yeah. Yeah Nate: I wonder how many listeners now still remember Brennan Ryan. Um, but defensive specialist, got yelled at by Chris Carpenter. Um, ben: in trouble. Nate: got in trouble. ben: Yeah. Nate: funny guy. ben: Yeah. Nate: Boog. ben: Boo, did they? Nate: Yep. I'm... ben: All right Nate: right, I'm gonna go more recent. He's coming back from the IL. We love to have a good time with him. He's an [01:26:00] international superstar. ben: Oh, okay. Yeah. Nate: Lars Nootbaar. ben: Lars Nieuwpoort Nate: He's having a good time all the time. ben: Yeah, I agree Nate: hanging out with Shohei. You know? If I hang out with Nootbaar, ben: You are one degree away from hanging out with Shohei Ohtani Nate: maybe I'm getting into illegal sports betting, get- you know, that whole thing, you know. ben: Wow Nate: you know, I'm getting into the murkier side of the... Getting into land disputes in Hawaii and all the other shit that Ohtani's getting in on, ben: Yeah, that's very cool. That's very cool. I like that Nate: No, Nubar's my vibes guy. That's where I'm going. yeah. ben: Okay. Uh, my next one is I'm going to go for another person with a crazy maniac energy because I guess that's just what I'm drawn to. Um, but give me Joe Kelly. I want Joe Kelly in my blunt rotation. Nate: Kelly. Okay. Joe Kelly's a good one. That's ben: Yeah. Nate: thought you were gonna take. ben: Total lunatic, Nate: yeah ben: seems like a fun guy. Speaks his mind, you know? I, I [01:27:00] like a lot of what, uh, Joe Kelly brings to the table Nate: like Joe Kelly too. That's a good pick. I didn't even think about him for some reason, so that's a, that's a good pick. I, I, uh, there's murals of him sticking his tongue out at, uh, at someone in, uh, all over LA, so ben: What more do you want? Nate: yeah. Um, all right. Here's who I thought you were gonna take. You think you're taking the, the ben: Oh, Nate: pick. ben: who you're gonna pick already. Is, can I guess it? Nate: Sure. ben: Tommy Pham. Nate: Yep. Come on down. I need a bit of the Tommy Pham revenge tour coming into my, uh, my rotation here, my vibes guy. Him and Newt and me, we're, we're having a good time. We're slapping people. We're getting stabbed. We're illegally betting. We're doing fantasy sports. We're doing all the stuff I love to do. ben: Yeah Nate: I'm going Tommy Pham ben: Me fam. That is good. Um, God, who do I... I feel like I need to chill out my vibe a little bit. Um, [01:28:00] you know, the, the guys now do seem fun. Nate: Yeah ben: I'm kinda thinking about Colton Wong. Nate: I thought about Wong ben: but you know, I'm... And this is gonna be mostly just because they, they really highlight Tyler O'Neill on that Boston Red Sox, uh, documentary, and he's just a good old, fun, Canad- he's doing it for the boys. I feel like me and him could probably drink beers. Um, we, we could probably go one-to-one on, on that kinda thing, and I think we would have a good time. Um, and he's a Jack Daddy, which we ta- we started this episode by talking about how I like that. So Nate: Jack ben: it's really two in one. Um, so I'm going Tyler O'Neill Nate: Yeah, and you got Mr. Canada in your pocket too if you need him, you know? ben: That could happen at any time. You never know Nate: never know. All right, Tyler O'Neill's a great pick. Um, I'm gonna go similar era. Uh, we, we need-- Let me think. With, with, with Newt and, and Tommy Pham [01:29:00] and me, we need, we need a good hair in our group, you know what I ben: Okay. I guess Nate: I'm bringing along Harrison Bader. ben: Okay. Yeah, he does seem fun. I, I like Harrison Bader Nate: I, think, he'd be a good time, he'd be a good hang. he's got that good hair. He's fast. ben: It's fast. Nate: we're gonna be doing some ben: You n- Nate: Um, so yeah, I'm going with Harrison Bader ben: You're making a lot of sense to me. Nate: Mm-hmm. ben: I- there's a lot of guys that I can pick with this last pick, but I, I feel urged to go a direction that I know that you're not going to go. Nate: Okay ben: and I'm gonna go with Tyler Greene solely because he bought me a shot one time, Nate: Yeah, we, yeah, ben: and that was super chill. And, uh, like we have a relationship, you know? We just pick up like it was old times Nate: He certainly remembers you and I from that bar 15 years ago at, like, midnight ben: Yeah. I'm sure he was stone cold sober, as were we. Nate: Uh-huh. ben: Yeah Nate: [01:30:00] Yeah, I, I, it's probably been a while since we've talked about this on the show, but Ben clocked Tyler Green. We were at a bar in Colorado, ben: We're at a bar in Denver, Nate: in ben: that i- in January that has now closed. We were out here for a bachelor party. I think it was before I even moved out here. Nate: It was ben: and Ty- it was us, our group, and Tyler Greene and his buddy sitting at the bar, and I said, "That's Tyler Greene." And our friend, who is, uh, this kind of guy, walked up. He goes, "Hey, my buddy knows who you are." And he turns around and he goes, "No, you don't." Um, and he goes, "Who am I?" And I go, "Oh, you're Tyler Greene. You know, you're a, a prospect for the St. Louis Cardinals," blah, blah, blah. And he w- they were sh- I think genuinely shocked I recognized them, and then bought us, our whole group, a round of shots. And we, uh, you know, high-fived and had a drink together and everything Nate: Stranahan's. It was a nice Colorado whiskey too. He, you know, he used that minor league money to, uh to buy us all a shot. It was fun. Yeah, I, I [01:31:00] truly could not believe that you clock... I mean, I was there too, ben: Yeah Nate: never have even thought, like, to, that that guy over there is a, uh... Should, I sh- I shouldn't even, I wouldn't even be paying attention to who, to who else is in the room. I mean, that's just me. Um, but to actually ben: Yeah you are maybe the least observant person I've ever met in my entire life Nate: Uh, disagree, but I think I'm, I'm kind of a, kind of the Benoit Blanc of the group, but that's fine. ben: What a stupid reference that was Nate: Knives out, beaks bloody. ben: There we go. Now it's good. Now it's good Nate: Uh, all right, Ambun, I gotta wrap it up. And I think I need... So I got Newt, I got Pham, I got ben: Yep Nate: I need, I need someone to keep us together. I need someone to drive. need someone with-- I need someone to fund all of this ben: Okay. Oh [01:32:00] yeah, I don't have a ton of cash in my group Nate: Um, so know, you know what? I need a little, need a little country music. I'm going Adam Wainwright. ben: Wow Nate: I think he'll keep us grounded. I d- I ben: Okay Nate: the boys be boys, you know? But he'll fly us around in his little private jet that I assume he has. And, um, ben: he really gives off the vibe of a private jet type of guy Nate: I think that he would be, uh, you know, it would be the sort of thing where we'd spend all day having a good time doing a bunch of stuff, and then at the end of the day he'd be like, "You boys go have fun." You know? and then, and ben: Do you think A- Adam Wainwright's ever smoked weed before? Nate: No, I, I ben: No. Nate: very certain that he never has. ben: not, yeah. Nate: Yeah ben: All right. Dream bu- rotation, let's go. Nate: time, to fly. ben: Time to fly. Oh, he's telling us this whole time. Nate: Uh-huh. ben: Angel dust Nate: [01:33:00] All right. Well, if you out there have a different, uh, vibes guys list, let us know. Uh, find us on the social media or, uh, hit us up in the, uh, in the Birds Cord. Interested to hear your take on it. Um, and we basically stuck almost exclusively in the last 15 years, so I don't know. Willie McGee, what are your guys from the, from the '90s and before that, that would ben: Steve Klein, actually. I, I want Steve Klein, that psycho, on my team. Let's go Nate: Uh, I slapped five with Ray Langford last year, ben: Ooh Nate: I are kinda, kinda buds, ben: Ray Langford, Ray King, couple of Rays on the crew would be good. Nate: My dad My dad's name is Ray. Uh, all ben: Dream blunt rotation Nate: that's gonna do it for this episode of Talking About Birds. Thank you all for being here. Check out all the links to everything at talkingaboutbirds.com. We will be back next week, as always, hopefully after a trouncing of the New York Mets. ben: Yeah Nate: until next week, go Cardinals[01:34:00] ben: Let's go Birds ​