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BOMBSHELL: GABBY PETITO STRANGLED DEAD · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last moments, a
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Speaker 1: stunning development in the Gabby Potito case. We now learn
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Speaker 1: Gabby Potito strangled dead Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The
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Speaker 1: coroner has released the cause of death. Take a listen
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Speaker 1: to this. I'm doctor grim blewe Teton County, Wyoming corner.
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Speaker 1: After the detailed investigation by our forensic pathologists, are anthropologists,
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Speaker 1: and local law enforcement with assistance from the FBI, the
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Speaker 1: Tetong County Coroner's office is following the fallen verder and
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Speaker 1: the manner of death of Gabrielle nor of Potito. We
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Speaker 1: find the cause and manner of the cause of death
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Speaker 1: strangulation in manner is coomicide by Wilming State Statue. Only
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Speaker 1: the cause and manner of are released their autopsy findings
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Speaker 1: and photographs, and that sort of material is not released
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Speaker 1: by state statue. What is the coroner withholding from us?
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Speaker 1: And why is there bruising? Was that manuel strangulation? Was
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Speaker 1: it a ligature? What else about that autopsy do they
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Speaker 1: not want us to know? Yet? Again, thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us, with me an all star panel to
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Speaker 1: make sense of it all. Joining me Wendy Patrick California prosecutor,
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Speaker 1: author of Red Flags at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com
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Speaker 1: and also today with doctor Wendy KCBQ, Doctor Angela Arnold,
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Speaker 1: renowned psychiatrists joining us from the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela
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Speaker 1: Arnold MD dot com. Founder director of Coldcase Research Institute,
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum at Coldcase Crimes dot org. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville
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Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon
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Speaker 1: and star of a new hit series on iHeart podcast
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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, but straight out to
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter with WFLATV joining me right now. Moss's side
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Speaker 1: on the case from the very beginning. Were you surprised
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Speaker 1: at all with what the coroner said strangulation death? I mean,
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Speaker 1: it has been just an absolutely heartbreaking day. We know
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Speaker 1: that the Petito family knew this was coming, that officials
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Speaker 1: were earned touch with them. But as you said, we
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Speaker 1: just learned from the Titan County Corner that Gabby Petito
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Speaker 1: was strangled. It's unclear if it was manual or with
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Speaker 1: an object. We also learned that her body had been
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Speaker 1: outside in the wilderness, likely for three to four weeks
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Speaker 1: before it was discovered. We had no other information about
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Speaker 1: her remains, as you mentioned right off the top, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: about any potential prior injuries, if the body had been moved,
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Speaker 1: none of that. The Teton County corner doctor Brent Blue
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Speaker 1: kept saying that his job was only to determine the
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Speaker 1: cause of death and the manner of death. Reporters were
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Speaker 1: peppering him with tons of questions. Everyone was asking him
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Speaker 1: about Brian Laundry, about the potential suspect, and he kept
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Speaker 1: saying that he could reveal nothing about the suspect. But
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Speaker 1: then he made a statement that to me was stunning.
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Speaker 1: He said, unfortunately, and I'm quoting here, he said, this
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Speaker 1: is only one of many deaths around the country of
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Speaker 1: people who are involved and domestic violent And when he
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Speaker 1: said that, that just struck me because he said he
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Speaker 1: couldn't reveal anything about the suspect. But then he made
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Speaker 1: that statement. I do want to be clear that officials
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Speaker 1: have not released any information directly linking Brian Laundry to
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Speaker 1: Gabby Petito's death. He's wanted to him, says Krent frauds Nancy. Okay,
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Speaker 1: hold on right there, MASSASAITI, I usually appreciate every single
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Speaker 1: thing you say without exception. And that was a real
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Speaker 1: catch that you caught where the Karna actually said, this
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Speaker 1: is just another case where a woman is dead after
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Speaker 1: domestic that has been involved in domestic violence. The parsing
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Speaker 1: of the words is very very critical here, and you
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Speaker 1: caught that. But when you say that Brian Laundry is
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Speaker 1: not a domestic is not the person of interest in
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Speaker 1: the murder, are you suggesting Massa that Brian Laundry takes
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Speaker 1: her possessions, takes her laptop, takes her vehicle, takes her
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Speaker 1: debit card, uses her debit card, drives across the country
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Speaker 1: without her in her van, and then somebody else just
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Speaker 1: happened along their campsite and killed her. I completely understand
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Speaker 1: what you're saying. I just wanted to make it clear
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Speaker 1: that as of right now, the only documents that I've seen,
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Speaker 1: he's wanted for bankard fraud, and he's been named a
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Speaker 1: person of interest in her disappearance, and then leader we
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Speaker 1: found out that she was dead, that it was a homicide.
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Speaker 1: Now we know was strangulation. I completely understand what you're saying.
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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be extra to stick to the
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Speaker 1: court documents here, Nancy, Well, you're right, Mass Society of course,
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Speaker 1: w FLA TV joining us straight out to founder director
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Speaker 1: of the Coldcase Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum. Okay, Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 1: we called it, Yeah, strangulation asphyxiation wagh in. It's going
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Speaker 1: to be manual. And I will tell you it jumped
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Speaker 1: out at me as well when they you know, he
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Speaker 1: leaked to the domnsic violence part. But there were three
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Speaker 1: things in addition to the strangulation announcement that after wrote,
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Speaker 1: you know, the domestic violence comments. The fact that he
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Speaker 1: mentioned she fought dead, she was not pregnant, So that
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Speaker 1: gets rid of one motive right there. That eliminates what
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Speaker 1: some people were theorizing. And then the first thing, he
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Speaker 1: confirmed that law enforcement did come and get DNA samples,
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Speaker 1: proved no one else touched her. You know, that's very significant,
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Speaker 1: and I am just wondering if there's any chance whether
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Speaker 1: semen survived, whether epiphilial cells survived, whether saliva or any
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Speaker 1: type of DNA on her body could have survived three
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Speaker 1: to four weeks in the elements out to you, Joe
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, what about it? Yeah, I think that would
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Speaker 1: be very difficult, Nancy, externally. Now internally, and again we
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Speaker 1: don't know anything relative to sexual assault or anything like that. Internally,
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Speaker 1: you got a better shot. Externally, I think that it's
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Speaker 1: it's a long shot at best or recover any kind
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Speaker 1: of DNA. Wait a minute, what about on clothing. Perhaps
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Speaker 1: on clothing, but again it would have to be shielded
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Speaker 1: and protected. Nancy considered that we went through multiple, multiple
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Speaker 1: days out in the exposed area. We're talking about rain,
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Speaker 1: we're talking about wind, we're talking about heat, which can come.
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Speaker 1: You know, this biological sample is very, very fragile, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: when you begin to think about the DNA and plus
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Speaker 1: plus it's already in dwelling, in an environ in which
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Speaker 1: a body is deco decomposing, And again that adds a
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Speaker 1: whole nother layer of compromise. As far as physical evidence
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Speaker 1: is concerned. Sheryl McCollum, she strangled to death. I agree
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Speaker 1: with you. It's going to be manual strangulation and a
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Speaker 1: fit of anger, which is just not negate premeditation or intent.
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Speaker 1: But what about on the back of her neck that
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Speaker 1: was shielded by her hair, protected by her hair? Do
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Speaker 1: you think there's all of epiphilial cells, and is it
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Speaker 1: time to bring in the vatum. I would absolutely it's
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Speaker 1: beyond time for that. What I imagine is after twenty
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Speaker 1: three days and those harsh elements, extremely an extreme cold,
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Speaker 1: and then the wildlife they have out there, it's going
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Speaker 1: to be probably virtually kneel. I will say. Remember the
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Speaker 1: fire kit that was near her that I believe the
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Speaker 1: killer would have built. There were items there that might
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Speaker 1: have been running through, perhaps put back in a backpack
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Speaker 1: or sometimes the container if that's the case. Whoever touched
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Speaker 1: he's one of those items again that might have been
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Speaker 1: protected somewhat. And that's what I would say. What about
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Speaker 1: her finger nails? You know she had to fight back again, Yeah, Nancy, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: And I can tell you that at autopsy they would
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Speaker 1: have done nail scrapings and also nail clippings. And again
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Speaker 1: he's not releasing any of this. He's not releasing any
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Speaker 1: of this information. You know, he keeps stating as well
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Speaker 1: he should that it's not you know, if per statute,
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Speaker 1: he cannot release it. One other significant thing here, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: that we're forgetting is that he was specifically asked if
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Speaker 1: she was in fact buried, and he didn't say either way.
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Speaker 1: Now we've heard some reports that say she was on
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Speaker 1: top of the ground, but he didn't really go there. Now,
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Speaker 1: I will say this, if she was buried in any
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Speaker 1: way any portion of the body that could act as
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Speaker 1: potentially a shield, but again we don't have that information. Yeah, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: please come to me. Go. I want to say this
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Speaker 1: for everybody to hear me one more time. Yeah, Brian
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Speaker 1: Laundry is her killer. He is lazy. He had not
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Speaker 1: buried her. He would not have buried her. No, ma'am nobody. No,
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Speaker 1: he left her out there, don't you guys remember thinking
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Speaker 1: about it. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor joining us. Remember we
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Speaker 1: could see there were aerials of everyone out there looking
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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they looked over and saw
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Speaker 1: something and went over there. Yes, and I'm telling you
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Speaker 1: she was not buried. Cheryl McCollum is correct. I wish
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Speaker 1: it was, as just got theorized that she had been
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Speaker 1: buried and maybe some of that DNA would have been saved.
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Speaker 1: But no, she was not buried. Yeah. And you know what, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: that actually might be something that a future prosecutor uses
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Speaker 1: to our advantage because it's not going to be solved
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Speaker 1: through DNA, unless, of course, there was third party DNA,
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Speaker 1: but you would expect this couple's been together forever. Brian
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Speaker 1: Laundry's DNA is all over her, but it's really solved
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Speaker 1: through the circumstantial evidence of what happened afterwards, we know
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Speaker 1: we have the cause of death. Hopefully they can put
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Speaker 1: Brian in the vicinity. I don't know whether we'll find
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Speaker 1: a specific day in time, but at least a range,
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Speaker 1: and then look at his conduct afterwards, So using the
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Speaker 1: credit card, flying back home, everything that he did circumstantially
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Speaker 1: might be of more value improving his guilt than forensically.
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Speaker 1: How and can we narrow the range down to let's
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Speaker 1: just say a seventy two hour period. Let's think it through,
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Speaker 1: because we know she's last seen on a certain date,
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Speaker 1: she speaks to her mother on a certain date, and
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Speaker 1: then he's gone without her on a certain date using
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Speaker 1: her debit card. So wouldn't we be able to narrow
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Speaker 1: the range of say when her cell phone. Absolutely there
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Speaker 1: were those fake tech sip, so I think we can
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Speaker 1: narrow the range of the time of death by extrinsic
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Speaker 1: forensic evidence such as phone pinging, navigation within the for transit,
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Speaker 1: the use of the debit cards, the siding of him
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Speaker 1: without her. But speaking of DNA, take a listen to
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Speaker 1: our cut two eighty nine. This is the Teton County Coroner,
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Speaker 1: doctor Brent Blue. Listen. Yes, hi, doctor, how are you?
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Speaker 1: I am curious if any DNA samples were taken from
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Speaker 1: Gabby's remains, and also if the body was intact. Are
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Speaker 1: you able to tell us the condition of Gabby's remains?
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Speaker 1: I can tell you the DNA samples were taken by
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Speaker 1: law enforcement, and all I can tell you about remains
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Speaker 1: is that the body was outside for three to four weeks.
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Speaker 1: I guarantee you that they can narrow it down to
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Speaker 1: a date more certain than three to four weeks. I
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Speaker 1: guarantee you how that I don't know. I'm a JD,
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Speaker 1: not an m D. But also listen to our cut
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Speaker 1: to eight eight. Still speaking the t Toon County Coroner,
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Speaker 1: doctor Brent Blue, Listen. Well, the main reason was that
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Speaker 1: we were very exacting in our examination and the detail
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Speaker 1: by which that examination was done. We were waiting for
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Speaker 1: various specialists to come in and help us with this investigation.
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Speaker 1: We were waiting on toxicology to be the return and
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Speaker 1: it was just a matter of making sure we had
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Speaker 1: everything right. What type of experts were being flown in?
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Speaker 1: What about it, Cheryl McCollum, Who did they fly into
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Speaker 1: Titon County? They had an anthropologist, a toxicologist, a person
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Speaker 1: that did the complete pathology, and another person that did
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Speaker 1: a complete cat scan. So they have, you know, lots
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Speaker 1: of really significant folks on this thing. And jo Scott,
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Speaker 1: what are they looking for with a cat scan? Yeah, hey,
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Speaker 1: listen to say something, Nancy. When he said cat scan,
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Speaker 1: my jaw hit the ground because for us in the
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Speaker 1: EMMY world, typically what you do is portable X rays.
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Speaker 1: They've kicked it up to an entire different level. You know,
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Speaker 1: everybody's saying that this is you know out in East
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Speaker 1: Egypt that they're isolated. Listen, they've got they've got top
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Speaker 1: line technology. And he said, this is it. He said,
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Speaker 1: her body did not leave our facility. They actually did
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Speaker 1: a cat scan inside the facility, so you get a
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Speaker 1: three dimensional view of the body. It's not just this
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Speaker 1: kind of flat, lack of detail X ray where things
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Speaker 1: are smudged and it's hard to pick them out. You've
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Speaker 1: seen these in testimony in court this cat scan is
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Speaker 1: going to be the difference. And particularly we're talking about strangulation.
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Speaker 1: What if, in fact her highway was fractured. That's actually
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Speaker 1: something that you can appreciate in detail if it's still intact.
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Speaker 1: They're in the neck. Again, we don't know anything about
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Speaker 1: animal activity, but that is a big, big clue. It's
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Speaker 1: a big clue as to remember what he said. He's
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Speaker 1: going after detail. He consulted all of these all of
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Speaker 1: these individuals, and he brought technology forward. Not only did
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Speaker 1: he did he document this with the FBI team that's there,
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Speaker 1: he's actually documented it through imagery that we don't normally have,
14:13
Speaker 1: you know, forget about photographic imagery and that sort of thing.
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Speaker 1: You can actually appreciate even this far out. You can
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Speaker 1: pick up on things like hemorrhage relative to decomposed body
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Speaker 1: with a catskin that you would not necessarily be able
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Speaker 1: to pick up with X ray. Well, I can tell
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Speaker 1: you this much. As soon as the coroner said three
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Speaker 1: to four weeks, we backdated it. And you know what
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Speaker 1: that is, Cheryl McCollum, August twenty two to twenty nine.
14:33
Speaker 1: That's right, and that's something we talked about on your
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Speaker 1: show at nobhum and I will tell you we even
14:39
Speaker 1: on your show that she was dead out to twenty eighth.
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Speaker 1: He was sending bogus tech by the thirtieth that he
14:44
Speaker 1: was already on the way hold. He was well into
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Speaker 1: his trip on the way home, because he got home
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Speaker 1: on September first. So, Nancy, what they're going to do
14:52
Speaker 1: and what I would do if this was my case.
14:54
Speaker 1: I want to know the last time that she posted
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Speaker 1: on social media. I want to know from her phone
15:00
Speaker 1: if there's a cloud, the last photographs she took. She
15:04
Speaker 1: takes extraordinary pictures, so they're going to be able to tail.
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Speaker 1: She last face timed her mom over twenty fifth. They
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Speaker 1: stopped hearing from her. By the twenty eighth. We know
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Speaker 1: it was focused. By the thirtieth. We can get within
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Speaker 1: forty eight hour. We're right, absolutely, And that's just by
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Speaker 1: using our noggins. And that's what I mean by forensic
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Speaker 1: extrinsic evidence, not evidence that is gleaned from her body.
15:27
Speaker 1: But I do want to point out Jack and I
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Speaker 1: were just looking at her nails. They're not long, they're
15:32
Speaker 1: about like mine. They're not long, but there's something there,
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Speaker 1: something that would leave a scratch mark. I mean, you
15:37
Speaker 1: wouldn't expect an environmentalist like her, a nature lover like
15:41
Speaker 1: her to have long nails where she had to go
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Speaker 1: to the the salon every week. But she has enough nails,
15:46
Speaker 1: has some skin under them, right, Yeah, she does, Nancy.
15:51
Speaker 1: And this is the thing about it. If everybody at home,
15:53
Speaker 1: particularly those that take care of their nails really well,
15:55
Speaker 1: if you think about the wooden sticks that people used
15:57
Speaker 1: to push push their cuticles back, that's something that we
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Speaker 1: actually use in the morgue to do what's called nail scrapings.
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Speaker 1: You don't have to have long nails to facilitate this.
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Speaker 1: You can go into the bed, you hold a druggist
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Speaker 1: paper beneath it. You capture anything that drops into that fold.
16:13
Speaker 1: And what they're looking for, what they're specifically looking for,
16:16
Speaker 1: are going to be skin sales more than likely. What
16:19
Speaker 1: did those parents not want us to see on brian laundry?
16:24
Speaker 1: Why was he kept away from everyone during the days
16:28
Speaker 1: he was at home. I want you to take a
16:31
Speaker 1: listen to our cut two ninety two. Again, this is
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Speaker 1: the Teton County Coroner, doctor Brent blue Hi. Doctor, this
16:39
Speaker 1: is Terry Parker from WPBF and Palm Beach County Florida.
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Speaker 1: I'm wondering, if you said you were very thorough in
16:45
Speaker 1: this autopsy and examination, could you give us an example
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Speaker 1: of the type of test and analysis as you performed.
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Speaker 1: This autopsy included a whole body scan, a examination by
17:03
Speaker 1: a forensic pathologists, an examination by a forensic anthropologist, and
17:11
Speaker 1: toxicology evaluation. So yeah, it was pretty much cover all
17:17
Speaker 1: the bases. You know it all Ice are on the
17:20
Speaker 1: Teton County Coroner's office. You know they did it all
17:23
Speaker 1: as you. Herd just got Morgan analyzed. They didn't just
17:27
Speaker 1: do a portable X ray on her. They brought in
17:30
Speaker 1: cat's scant equipment. They did it right, But what did
17:34
Speaker 1: they learn? I found the coroner to be somewhat coy
17:38
Speaker 1: but a matter of fact as well, stating I don't
17:40
Speaker 1: have to release this to you, this is an ongoing investigation.
17:45
Speaker 1: We only have to tell you cause a death, manner
17:47
Speaker 1: of death. Everything else will remain close to the vest.
17:50
Speaker 1: To doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta
17:53
Speaker 1: at angela Arnold MD dot com, what do you think
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Speaker 1: we had finally learned the cause of death, not manner,
18:00
Speaker 1: cause she was strangled and I guarantee you. It was manual.
18:05
Speaker 1: When I say Manuel v ligature, I mean ligature is
18:08
Speaker 1: with a pair of pantyhose or stocking or a scary
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Speaker 1: manual is with your hands. Yes, go ahead, doctor Nancy.
18:15
Speaker 1: This is what I have been saying all along. True.
18:18
Speaker 1: The domestic violence, the intimate partner violence that was going on.
18:23
Speaker 1: He slapped her. That was the last thing we saw.
18:26
Speaker 1: We have it on. They have hurt him at knitting
18:29
Speaker 1: to that strangulation. Strangulation happens over time, Okay, the violence
18:37
Speaker 1: becomes more severe. This is what was going on in
18:41
Speaker 1: this situation. My thought is, I don't know, maybe they
18:45
Speaker 1: had another altercation in the van. Think they think they
18:49
Speaker 1: got out and the female warden that said, hey, you
18:54
Speaker 1: need to rethink whether you want to go forward this guy.
18:56
Speaker 1: It's toxic. Do you remember that, Cheryl Nancy? I remember,
18:59
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things that makes me so hard.
19:01
Speaker 1: I mean, now you've got complete strangers coming up to
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Speaker 1: her and saying, hey, little girl, this is bad. You
19:08
Speaker 1: need to get out of this. And now she's dead
19:10
Speaker 1: by Manuel strangulation. There's two things that happened in that instant.
19:13
Speaker 1: That female officer saying to her, your relationship being toxic
19:18
Speaker 1: and during that event, right there on the side of
19:21
Speaker 1: the road, her calling her parents. You know, I mean,
19:24
Speaker 1: in hindsight, you just wish she had turned that by
19:27
Speaker 1: around and driven home or thel. You know. Jackie pointed
19:44
Speaker 1: out something as well, let's look back at that Moab
19:47
Speaker 1: August twelve incident as it's been being called. When finally
19:53
Speaker 1: she revealed that Brian Laundry grabbed her by the face
19:59
Speaker 1: and I can just see that hand going down to
20:03
Speaker 1: her neck. I mean, can anybody but me visualize this
20:07
Speaker 1: happening to her? I mean, she's basically told us what happened.
20:11
Speaker 1: And you know what Laundry said. Nancy Laundry said that
20:14
Speaker 1: she lost her balance but was able to scratch his face,
20:17
Speaker 1: just what we were talking about before. So both of
20:20
Speaker 1: them in some sense to give us some of the
20:22
Speaker 1: clues that we're looking for now, Can I just in yes, John,
20:28
Speaker 1: Starting on August twelfth, what we know from the twelfth
20:33
Speaker 1: to September. First, he supposedly flew home to take care
20:37
Speaker 1: of the store's room to save money. He has a
20:40
Speaker 1: fit with some wagers at a restaurant over the bill,
20:43
Speaker 1: which is money he had to the you know Boone store,
20:48
Speaker 1: but Mama has to buy it because he ain't got
20:50
Speaker 1: no money. He used her debit cards money. He stands
20:55
Speaker 1: on the side of the road talking to that police
20:57
Speaker 1: officer who's treating him as the victim, and says one
21:01
Speaker 1: of them says, well, can you afford a hotel? And
21:03
Speaker 1: he says no, And his exact quote is I got
21:07
Speaker 1: very little money. That's the motive. And when you're looking
21:10
Speaker 1: at domestic violence again, that is one oh one crap.
21:15
Speaker 1: How did Brian Laundry escape? When did he escape? We
21:21
Speaker 1: know the Laundry families coming out on their lawn at
21:24
Speaker 1: two and three o'clock in the morning to empty the trash,
21:28
Speaker 1: to clean up the yard. Did he leave and the
21:31
Speaker 1: night surreptitiously? Is this the norm for them? Take a
21:34
Speaker 1: listen to our cut two seven four our friend Athena Jones.
21:38
Speaker 1: New details emerging about the period after Laundry returned home
21:41
Speaker 1: and Potito's white van without Potito on September first, and
21:45
Speaker 1: before Laundry left his parents home on September thirteenth, telling
21:49
Speaker 1: them he was headed to the twenty five thousand acre reserve. Northport, Florida,
21:53
Speaker 1: Police now revealing they were launching Laundry before he left,
21:56
Speaker 1: but were limited in what they could do because he
21:58
Speaker 1: had not been charged with a crime. If you talk
22:01
Speaker 1: to a lot of people who have experienced in law enforcement,
22:04
Speaker 1: the guy goes for a walk in the carltons if
22:06
Speaker 1: he's not one of for a crime, I mean, what
22:10
Speaker 1: are we what are we supposed to do? We're gonna
22:12
Speaker 1: go treat a tree, tree a tree, follow him back
22:15
Speaker 1: through the woods. I mean, you know it just wasn't
22:19
Speaker 1: there with you. M I don't know about that. What
22:23
Speaker 1: do you think about that? Joe Scott Morgan? Yeah, Hey, look, Nancy,
22:27
Speaker 1: I have no idea where this guy is. Could he
22:29
Speaker 1: have slipped out in the middle of the night and
22:31
Speaker 1: been out there, I don't know. I don't think he's
22:34
Speaker 1: out there right now. I think that he could have
22:36
Speaker 1: been cool in his hills, out there for a protracted
22:39
Speaker 1: period of time. But I know that there's connectivity between
22:41
Speaker 1: him and his parents, and it would not surprise me
22:44
Speaker 1: at all if they had not facilitated that trip up
22:47
Speaker 1: to Fort de Soto to let him slip away into
22:50
Speaker 1: the night, and he's been gone since that period of time.
22:52
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut number two seven six.
22:55
Speaker 1: This is a Northport police spokesperson, do you have any
22:59
Speaker 1: idea how we got to What I'll say is that
23:06
Speaker 1: that is a consistent something that we're working to figure out.
23:10
Speaker 1: As far as how he got away, I don't even
23:13
Speaker 1: know how to answer that. Well. What I mean is,
23:16
Speaker 1: you know, if he was staying with his parents at
23:18
Speaker 1: the house and I was out there, there were a
23:19
Speaker 1: lot of police outside the house, a lot didn't I
23:23
Speaker 1: didn't see him and I was out there. Police are
23:24
Speaker 1: out that meeting. We've heard stories. Could he have gone
23:26
Speaker 1: out of back door? Could he have you know, run
23:28
Speaker 1: through y'all yard? I mean, do you have any idea? Yeah? No,
23:32
Speaker 1: I think certainly what the family has told us is
23:35
Speaker 1: that he drove out to the park and walked out
23:38
Speaker 1: into the woods. I think that is certainly on the table.
23:41
Speaker 1: You know what, Cheryl muccall, None of that is fitting
23:43
Speaker 1: together for me. I want it doesn't fit together. That
23:46
Speaker 1: means it's usually false. You want to tell me, with
23:49
Speaker 1: all the press and all the cops around that house,
23:52
Speaker 1: nobody saw him leave and afford mustang according to the police,
23:57
Speaker 1: I mean, according to the family, he didn't walk out.
23:59
Speaker 1: He left in the mustang. Isn't that what they said?
24:02
Speaker 1: And nobody saw that happen, So they're not magicians. How
24:07
Speaker 1: did it happens? Because it didn't happen, correct, didn't happen.
24:14
Speaker 1: So anything that Mama has told us, I can tell you,
24:18
Speaker 1: then take it straight off the table did not happen.
24:23
Speaker 1: If she's leaving you somewhere, it's a red heron. I
24:26
Speaker 1: promise you. This is a woman and I want you
24:28
Speaker 1: to think about it that sat at a campground making
24:33
Speaker 1: s'more while Gabby Mama and daddy and step Daddy and
24:39
Speaker 1: stepmama called her over forty nine times begging where is Gabby?
24:47
Speaker 1: Have you seen her? Will you help me? And she
24:49
Speaker 1: ignored them. She ignored their please. That is the person
24:55
Speaker 1: we're dealing with. So how did they do it? The
24:59
Speaker 1: last best known signing of Brian Laundry was when he
25:05
Speaker 1: was at the campgrounds at DeSoto. Was he sided at
25:08
Speaker 1: any other time? Did neighbors spot him on September eleven?
25:13
Speaker 1: Think back at our timeline to use Cheryl McCollum and
25:16
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick. I believe the last time he was actually
25:21
Speaker 1: spotted may have been well, according to the parents, it
25:26
Speaker 1: was the thirteenth. Well, the confusion, that's what's covering so
25:32
Speaker 1: much confusion. Is if we can't ten point a date
25:36
Speaker 1: and put him in a certain place at a certain time,
25:38
Speaker 1: it's going to make it very difficult for us to
25:40
Speaker 1: continue to work backwards. But I agree this has been
25:43
Speaker 1: one of the most perplexing points in this case, straight
25:46
Speaker 1: from the beginning, almost to the point of embarrassment to
25:49
Speaker 1: everybody around him and all the law enforcement and the
25:51
Speaker 1: media that were there to hopefully catch us sighting. No
25:55
Speaker 1: one saw anything. It almost makes a second guest that
26:00
Speaker 1: time line, that would be one of the things that'd
26:02
Speaker 1: be roundtabling if I was trying to solve this case
26:04
Speaker 1: right now. Hey, here's what I'm trying to say. Go ahead.
26:08
Speaker 1: The police were not looking for him until September eleventh,
26:13
Speaker 1: when she would reported missing. He was gone by the end.
26:17
Speaker 1: I'm telling you they said, So what you're saying, it's
26:21
Speaker 1: what I have long believed that every time the cops
26:23
Speaker 1: came to the house, Remember the word was the parents
26:26
Speaker 1: wouldn't let the cops speak to him. I don't think
26:30
Speaker 1: you was even there. I think it was long gone.
26:32
Speaker 1: As far as to say, I bet that attorney at
26:34
Speaker 1: never met with him. I bet he ain't facetimes with him.
26:37
Speaker 1: Brian has been gone since the camping trip, I'm telling you,
26:42
Speaker 1: and that's what I mean by the timeline. If the
26:44
Speaker 1: timeline shifts, then the investigation makes more sense that nobody
26:47
Speaker 1: would have seen him leave because he wasn't there to
26:50
Speaker 1: begin with. Those are the kinds of questions I think
26:52
Speaker 1: we're finally asking. I think that what is it going
26:56
Speaker 1: to take for a murder charge to be handed down.
27:00
Speaker 1: It's going to take some type of DNA and my
27:03
Speaker 1: bet is going to be connected to her fingernails. That's
27:07
Speaker 1: the only thing I can think of right now. Take
27:09
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut two nine zero. This is
27:13
Speaker 1: the Teton County Coroner, doctor brand Blue. In the state
27:16
Speaker 1: of Wyoming. There are four possibilities for a manner of death.
27:21
Speaker 1: They are homicide, suicide, accident, and natural and those are
27:26
Speaker 1: the four choices. When we do an investigation, we look
27:30
Speaker 1: at the crime scene or the scene of the death,
27:33
Speaker 1: of the scene of the body, the conditions of the body,
27:37
Speaker 1: and findings of autopsy and toxicology, and that is how
27:42
Speaker 1: we arrive at the manner of death. So it really
27:47
Speaker 1: depends on lots of different circumstances. I've seen that in
27:52
Speaker 1: arson cases where the medical examiner takes a look at
27:57
Speaker 1: the case and then based on extreme circumstances, they determine
28:03
Speaker 1: it was homicide not natural. For instance, if the purpose
28:07
Speaker 1: removed all their clothing and all their jewelry and all
28:09
Speaker 1: their family photos from the home, then leaves the wife
28:13
Speaker 1: to die in the fire, could it be accent. No?
28:16
Speaker 1: Not with all the jewelry and the photos and the
28:18
Speaker 1: clothing removed and started a storage container. No, that makes
28:22
Speaker 1: it homicide. Medical examiners Corners are a latical examiner today
28:28
Speaker 1: revealing domestic violent homicide. I find that very very critical.
28:36
Speaker 1: I want you to also take a listen to our
28:37
Speaker 1: cut two ninety one again the coroner two nine. When
28:41
Speaker 1: there are any impact on her body from weather or
28:45
Speaker 1: wild animals in the National Park, all I could really
28:50
Speaker 1: common about that is that her body was outside in
28:53
Speaker 1: the wilderness for food of world weeks. Okay, granted that's
28:58
Speaker 1: a setback, Joe Scott Morgan. If you are under a
29:02
Speaker 1: tree like I believe she was, even though not buried,
29:07
Speaker 1: there is one thing that may stay intact other than
29:10
Speaker 1: evans inside the body. Such a seman under her nails
29:15
Speaker 1: would be protected to some together. It would because there's
29:18
Speaker 1: so much force. If folks will imagine fingernails much like
29:23
Speaker 1: a plow on an unplowed field where they're digging into furrows,
29:27
Speaker 1: that's what happens with fingernails. When individuals are trying to
29:29
Speaker 1: fight people off, it curls up fingernail, and what happens
29:33
Speaker 1: is there's such force behind that. Think about anybody that
29:36
Speaker 1: has ever fought someone off. You're in just this ferocious
29:39
Speaker 1: state where you're trying to get the individual off of you,
29:41
Speaker 1: anything you can do just to save your life. She's
29:44
Speaker 1: putting force behind it, and so that the fingernail acts
29:47
Speaker 1: like a little hood that the skin and the tissue
29:50
Speaker 1: deposits under. So yeah, it's very difficult to kind of
29:53
Speaker 1: root that out. It's not like if you have skin
29:56
Speaker 1: cells that are laying on top of a body that
29:58
Speaker 1: aren't embedded, say for ends, that can be blown away.
30:01
Speaker 1: It can be washed away, it could be compromised by heat.
30:04
Speaker 1: Not with the fingernails. It's very very significant that they're
30:07
Speaker 1: looking into this. That's going to go to the Trace
30:10
Speaker 1: Evidence Section, Nancy at the FBI. They're going to take
30:13
Speaker 1: a real close look at those nails scrapings. But Joe Scott.
30:17
Speaker 1: I would put someone like you on the stand if
30:19
Speaker 1: I were the prosecutor, to say how long would that
30:21
Speaker 1: DNA last under the nails? Because your members supposedly she
30:25
Speaker 1: scratched him in Moab, So would that then be possible
30:29
Speaker 1: that it was still under the nails from that incident
30:31
Speaker 1: or would have been fresh because of the strangulation. I
30:34
Speaker 1: gotta tell you there's another piece to this. I'm glad
30:36
Speaker 1: you said something, Wendy. Another question that was asked. One
30:40
Speaker 1: of these reporters actually had the presence of mind to say, hey, doc,
30:44
Speaker 1: have you seen any evidence of previous injuries, healing injuries,
30:49
Speaker 1: that sort of thing? And he wouldn't comment on that.
30:52
Speaker 1: He said that he can't comment on that, and that's
30:54
Speaker 1: something that I've held forward on. I'm wondering. I'm wondering if,
30:59
Speaker 1: looking back to Mac's statement, if you will go out
31:02
Speaker 1: and you will slap around a ninety five pound woman
31:05
Speaker 1: in the middle of the street in public view, if
31:09
Speaker 1: you'll do that, what will you do in private? Okay?
31:12
Speaker 1: How long bread this abuse has been going on? You know?
31:15
Speaker 1: And you were the first one that I knew of
31:17
Speaker 1: Joe Scott to point out those resolving bruises on her
31:22
Speaker 1: back that you spotted when she was snow when she
31:26
Speaker 1: was sandsurfing. Do remember that those photos that she had
31:28
Speaker 1: posted and they're very very playing to see. Guys, take
31:32
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut two ninety four, our friends
31:34
Speaker 1: at w f LA two ninety four. This is the
31:37
Speaker 1: news statement just into the newsroom, a courtesy of our colleague,
31:40
Speaker 1: investigator mass Seti. It says, quote from Stephen Bertolino, Gabby
31:43
Speaker 1: Petito's death at such a young age as a tragedy
31:46
Speaker 1: or Brian Laundry is currently charged with the unauthorized use
31:49
Speaker 1: of a debit card belonging to Gabby. Brian is only
31:51
Speaker 1: considered a person of interest in relation to Gabby Petito's
31:54
Speaker 1: demise at this time. Brian is still missing. When he
31:57
Speaker 1: is located, we'll address the pending fraud charge against him.
32:00
Speaker 1: End quote. That is the new statement a courtesy of
32:03
Speaker 1: my Society from Stephen Bertolino, which jumped out to me JB.
32:06
Speaker 1: Is that this statement acknowledges that he is accused of
32:08
Speaker 1: fraud using Gabby's card, which the charging document did not say.
32:14
Speaker 1: The family attorney on doctor Phil did say they believed
32:16
Speaker 1: it was her card. Here is the attorney for the
32:19
Speaker 1: Laundry family acknowledging that he is charged with unauthorized access
32:23
Speaker 1: to her bank account, which I think is significant even
32:41
Speaker 1: now that they cause of death has been determined to
32:44
Speaker 1: be strangulation. Once again, the family of Brian Laundry, along
32:50
Speaker 1: with their lawyer, is giving some innocuous response about the
32:55
Speaker 1: debit card. How he's only a person of interest in
32:59
Speaker 1: the Abbott card, He's only a suspect, He's only charged
33:02
Speaker 1: with the debit card. As if they want me to
33:04
Speaker 1: look there and not at the dead body? What what?
33:07
Speaker 1: What is that? Doctor Angie Arnold Well? And also the
33:11
Speaker 1: dead body that was found next to the van that
33:13
Speaker 1: they were traveling in. And I have a question, Nancy.
33:16
Speaker 1: You know this may not be the first time he's
33:19
Speaker 1: tried to strangle her. Domestic abusers will often strangle their
33:25
Speaker 1: partner in order to gain control over them, but they
33:28
Speaker 1: don't always kill them when they do that, Okay, And
33:33
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if the corner is looking for signs of
33:36
Speaker 1: previous strangulation by this guy, because you can oftentimes it's
33:41
Speaker 1: very unnoticeable from the outside. If someone has been strangled,
33:45
Speaker 1: they can develop a hoarse voice and some different things
33:47
Speaker 1: like that. But I just wonder if they're looking for
33:50
Speaker 1: other signs of previous strangulation too. Guys, we've got Gabby
33:54
Speaker 1: alive on August twenty seven with Brian Laundry at the
33:59
Speaker 1: Mary Pig the restaurant. Remember that they were spotted together
34:04
Speaker 1: on August twenty seven. Alive, all right, So that's narrowing
34:10
Speaker 1: my timeline right there. But he's home on nine one.
34:14
Speaker 1: We've got it narrowed now between eight twenty seven and
34:18
Speaker 1: nine one. And what about the two days he was traveling.
34:21
Speaker 1: That would be the thirty first and the thirtieth, So
34:26
Speaker 1: now we've narrowed it even more. What about that Cheryl.
34:31
Speaker 1: I'm telling you she was dead by the twenty eighth.
34:33
Speaker 1: I believe it took him almost three days to get home, Nancy.
34:37
Speaker 1: That's a long trip. He was already fatigued, he was
34:40
Speaker 1: freaked out, He had no money, he had no food,
34:44
Speaker 1: he hadn't slept the night before because he's having disposed
34:48
Speaker 1: of her, So it would have taken him a lot
34:50
Speaker 1: longer to get all the way to Florida from whom
34:53
Speaker 1: So you believe she's dead on August twenty eight. Now,
34:57
Speaker 1: what do we have to do. How do we narrow
35:00
Speaker 1: the time of death? J Scott Morgan, how can we
35:03
Speaker 1: forensically do that with her body so I can place
35:07
Speaker 1: him with her on that date? Yeah, one of you
35:10
Speaker 1: know something the corner mentioned very specifically, Nancy, and I'm
35:13
Speaker 1: glad that he brought this up. We do know that
35:15
Speaker 1: a forensic anthropologist was involved, and it sounds like they
35:18
Speaker 1: were present at the morgue. That's essential. But also he
35:22
Speaker 1: said that samples had been taken by the FBI and
35:26
Speaker 1: had been sent to the forensic entomologists. That's the guy
35:30
Speaker 1: that the Gallus studies the bugs and the progression. And
35:33
Speaker 1: also something's coming up forensic botany perhaps, and that's the
35:37
Speaker 1: growth of the little plants, a little seedlings, all of
35:40
Speaker 1: those things marry up on a timeline. And listen when
35:43
Speaker 1: it comes to bugs, do you know that bugs actually
35:46
Speaker 1: have manners? They only show up after other species have gone,
35:50
Speaker 1: so we can check a progression like maggot husk and
35:52
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. How are these things developing? They
35:55
Speaker 1: only show up in specific time that kind of march along.
35:58
Speaker 1: So that's one of the way they're going to do. Scott,
36:01
Speaker 1: the rest of us, we know what you're talking about
36:03
Speaker 1: But you've got to break it down and regular people talk.
36:06
Speaker 1: For instance, we find Gabby's body, and we find on
36:10
Speaker 1: her body, let's just say blowflies, all right, what would
36:16
Speaker 1: that tell? You? Break it down to real examples, not
36:20
Speaker 1: just theoretical words or Latin phrases. Okay, what the blowflies
36:26
Speaker 1: are looking for? And they're one of the first species
36:28
Speaker 1: to show up in any kind of case like this
36:31
Speaker 1: where a body is outdoors. They're looking for warm, moist
36:34
Speaker 1: areas where they can lay their eggs, and that is essential.
36:37
Speaker 1: That's when the cycle actually begins. The eggs are deposited,
36:41
Speaker 1: and then they take a very specific time to develop,
36:44
Speaker 1: and then when they develop, you'll have maggot that come
36:48
Speaker 1: to life. They burst through out of these eggs, and
36:51
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go into the specific details of
36:53
Speaker 1: where they are, but as they mature, those little husk
36:57
Speaker 1: that they develop crack open. They go through very stages
37:00
Speaker 1: and then a new a new crop of blowflies a
37:04
Speaker 1: present and then after that they come back and they
37:07
Speaker 1: lay more eggs in that specific area. Nancy. And how
37:11
Speaker 1: is that important? Well, there's a specific yes, it is
37:16
Speaker 1: it specifically is you couple that with the little sprouts
37:19
Speaker 1: of plants that are growing up in that area. And
37:21
Speaker 1: if they took their time at the scene, which I
37:23
Speaker 1: think they did, they collected all of this data and
37:26
Speaker 1: it's gone to probably quanticus. You're saying under her body. Yes,
37:36
Speaker 1: I think that there could be growth beneath, And it
37:38
Speaker 1: all depends on the little seedlings. And a lot of
37:41
Speaker 1: this is dependent upon the type of time of year
37:43
Speaker 1: they're going to be looking at these things. Because certain
37:45
Speaker 1: things only appear at specific times of the year. You
37:49
Speaker 1: have to know very specific details about the geography in
37:52
Speaker 1: which you find these bodies. So if I can properly
37:55
Speaker 1: analyze the etymology angle of Gabby he does body, I
38:01
Speaker 1: will be able to determine how long she has been
38:03
Speaker 1: there based on that etymologic timeline. Yeah, you're absolutely right,
38:10
Speaker 1: and that would imply and again this is very broad,
38:12
Speaker 1: but that's how we kind of narrow things down. Did
38:15
Speaker 1: a body come from another geographic location or did it
38:18
Speaker 1: did the body succumb there? Also, we look at these
38:21
Speaker 1: things like with soil. You know, there's been a lot
38:23
Speaker 1: of questions about, well, did she die there? Well, if
38:26
Speaker 1: you're in another location that has different kinds of soil,
38:30
Speaker 1: you find that on the body. You know that soil
38:32
Speaker 1: is not associated with that. That's why in forensics, trace
38:35
Speaker 1: evidence is so very important. And that covers you know,
38:38
Speaker 1: the gamut brol down to this Sheryl and everybody jump
38:42
Speaker 1: in the van. Her transit is part here. Then there's
38:47
Speaker 1: some grass right and there's a creek. Then there's a log,
38:51
Speaker 1: and there's her body. It's right there by where. Yeah,
39:00
Speaker 1: all of that is true. Everything that Joscott said was fabulous,
39:03
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna lose, you know, just use a little
39:05
Speaker 1: horse sense here for you. They're gonna ping his delt home.
39:10
Speaker 1: They're gonna look at where he first fought Gasolene with
39:13
Speaker 1: her debit card, and they're going to backtrack the time
39:16
Speaker 1: that would have taken him to drive there, even if
39:18
Speaker 1: he was driving one hundred miles an hour. Then they're
39:21
Speaker 1: gonna see when did he first called home, because remember
39:24
Speaker 1: Mama changed the number of people that were going to
39:26
Speaker 1: go camping before he got home, so there was some communication.
39:31
Speaker 1: So they're gonna be able to tell every time he
39:33
Speaker 1: stopped to eat, every time he got gasoline, the amount
39:37
Speaker 1: of hours that took him to get home, and they're
39:39
Speaker 1: gonna be able to double back and say he left
39:42
Speaker 1: at approximately this time, which means now she was killed
39:46
Speaker 1: between here and here as soon as he turned his
39:49
Speaker 1: cell phone on, if he had an offering a period
39:51
Speaker 1: of time, as soon as hers stopped working, and where
39:55
Speaker 1: it stopped for the last time. Because remember when he
39:58
Speaker 1: when he sent that bogus tech so the thirtieth, he
40:01
Speaker 1: was already in a round home. So if he sent
40:03
Speaker 1: that home from the I cannot wait to get the
40:07
Speaker 1: ping of where that phone was when he sent the text,
40:12
Speaker 1: no cell service in Yosemite. I mean, for all I
40:15
Speaker 1: know it was in Alabama. No cell service in Yosemite.
40:22
Speaker 1: That one thing, that one ping is going to tell
40:26
Speaker 1: us so much. And all I can do right now
40:29
Speaker 1: is think about forensic etymology and Gabby's fingernails. We wait
40:38
Speaker 1: as the evidence unfalls. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye,