Latest / The Curve / Is your wedding for you, or for Instagram?

Transcript

Is your wedding for you, or for Instagram? · The Curve

• 0:00
  Over 50% of couples in the US go into debt when it comes to their wedding.
• 0:05
  And when we saw the stat, we thought, surely not.
• 0:07
  Hopefully our audience is financially a little bit more educated and not going into debt for this big special day.
• 0:13
  But it really got us thinking, oh my goodness, like what are people spending money on?
• 0:18
  What do they regret spending money on?
• 0:19
  What are they glad that they spent on?
• 0:21
  So we did a massive data collection with our whole audience.
• 0:25
  Thank you so much to everyone that anonymously gave us their information.
• 0:29
  If you do want to download and see all of those responses, we've collated everything.
• 0:36
  It's fascinating to see what people spend and all of that.
• 0:39
  So we will link that in the podcast show notes.
• 0:41
  But thank you so much to Margie Ritterford, who is the co-founder of Vale, an amazing wedding magazine in New Zealand and Australia, who...
• 0:48
  came on for this podcast to talk about wedding traditions what we found from the curve audience as well as the more global trends around what people are spending money on and and how we're actually approaching the big day we don't do this very often but we do have a prize so if you stay listening to the end of this episode you can find out how you can win a fun little package thanks to veil magazine the curve and milk books
• 1:16
  This episode that we are about to get into has been in the pipeline for honestly a really long time, hasn't it?
• 1:21
  I'm joined by Margie, who's the co-founder of Veil.
• 1:24
  Thank you for having me on, Soph.
• 1:26
  I'm really excited to have this discussion around a topic that is very close to my heart and I think is really important.
• 1:34
  And obviously with Veil, we are a publication and platform that is focused around weddings and love and relationships and all of those things kind of between and beyond.
• 1:45
  And I deal in my day-to-day with the culture around weddings, but not often do we have transparent conversations around the costs of weddings.
• 1:54
  And it's so important because it's a massive, massive factor as to whether someone can have weddings
• 2:00
  a wedding or what their wedding might look like, how they execute it.
• 2:03
  And it's so interesting because I think one of my favorite things about the curb is actually how engaged the audience is in giving us feedback and being really honest with what they think, feel, what they've spent on things.
• 2:15
  And so we ran an anonymous, almost like data gathering survey to understand what people are spending on, what they regretted.
• 2:24
  And it was absolutely fascinating going through that.
• 2:28
  the results and the stats that came from that.
• 2:29
  Because obviously when we were planning this episode, Margie and I were looking at global statistics around how much people in different countries on average are spending on weddings and all of that.
• 2:38
  But to then compare it to the Curve community and see if that lines up was really interesting.
• 2:44
  So...
• 2:45
  Today's conversation is definitely about the cost of weddings, but actually also just zooming out and talking about the cultural nuance and the pressure and the way that the whole industry has evolved so much in the last 10 years particularly.
• 3:03
  I think firstly, what is your take on the industry where it's at right now and the trends that you're seeing and...
• 3:10
  I don't know, just a zoomed out perspective on the entire industry?
• 3:14
  It's a really interesting question because I think it immediately cuts to the heart of the kind of fascinating paradox at the heart of the wedding industry, which is pairing up of this wedding industrial complex, which we will talk about a lot, obviously, in this conversation, which comes with, you know, the economics around weddings, the
• 3:36
  the brands involved, the vendors, the industry that surrounds a wedding, but then also balancing that with this idea that a wedding really is a ceremony and a ritual that humans have been partaking in since civilizations really existed and probably in their own ways pre-civilization.
• 3:54
  I mean, it's essentially at its heart this kind of deeply human existence
• 4:02
  acknowledgement and commitment to not go through life alone.
• 4:10
  It's such a beautiful way to put it.
• 4:11
  And I really think that I've forgotten that and lost track of that within the marquees and the flowers and the cost involved.
• 4:20
  I think a lot of people do.
• 4:21
  And I think that is where a lot of the kind of angst,
• 4:27
  originates when people think about weddings and the costs and the this and that and the other thing and coming into doing Vale, not really from a wedding background myself and looking at it with fresh eyes.
• 4:39
  I think for me, it's so clear what's important and, and getting back down to the roots of like what a wedding is.
• 4:47
  As soon as I heard you answer that question, I felt immediately really connected to the idea of marriage and what it means and,
• 4:55
  But I also think if we extrapolate out as we're talking about weddings and marriage has been around for a really long time, but actually when it first originated, it was more of a legal economic arrangement.
• 5:08
  And I think that that has evolved and shifted over time and people have now created new meanings of what marriage and a wedding is to them, whether you're religious, whether there's...
• 5:20
  cultural connections.
• 5:21
  Like obviously there's so many different ways that weddings show up around the world.
• 5:26
  And I think at its core now what it's turned into is while it's still a legal commitment and it still is for a lot of people –
• 5:35
  an economic arrangement as well, because let's be honest, right now it feels almost impossible to try and raise a family, if that's what you want to do, without two incomes.
• 5:46
  And also then there's the conversation of prenups, like when you get married, you are legally connecting all of your assets unless you arrange otherwise.
• 5:56
  So one of the things that I really struggle with is the interconnectedness of the legal side and the finances, while then also that really beautiful human connection and that commitment to witness somebody's life.
• 6:10
  What you're talking about in terms of prenups...
• 6:13
  the machinations of what a financial kind of setup looks like in a marriage is really something that you probably have to nut out with your partner very separately from your wedding.
• 6:25
  And I think in my mind, the two exist differently.
• 6:29
  Very separately.
• 6:30
  I mean, you think about the way the modern couples function now.
• 6:34
  A lot of the time, people are financially married long before they walk down an aisle or plan an event.
• 6:41
  The evolution has happened whereby the two are so separate now.
• 6:45
  Some of the time I'm conflicted about the idea of it's really beautiful to have tradition that evolves and changes.
• 6:51
  And then I come up against this almost feminism in me that's questioning whether or not I should be doing or how I, you know, even the idea of being walked down the aisle.
• 7:01
  I was thinking about before this episode, you know, it was.
• 7:05
  being walked down by your father.
• 7:07
  I mean, I adore my dad.
• 7:09
  I know he would be so excited at the idea of having this moment of walking me down the aisle.
• 7:14
  But if you think about it, it's my dad who owns me, giving me away to my now husband who owns me.
• 7:21
  And I just...
• 7:22
  I find it really hard to reconcile this new idea of what a wedding has developed into and the tradition and the value in it and extrapolating that from the origins.
• 7:35
  Did you question those things when you got married?
• 7:38
  It's whether you want to take on and internalize that kind of old school meaning of it or go,
• 7:47
  okay, let's just like strip things down to like brass tacks right now.
• 7:52
  Why are we doing this?
• 7:53
  Okay, we're doing this because we really want to show our family and friends how much we love each other.
• 8:01
  And we want to have a moment that becomes almost like this ground zero of the rest of our life.
• 8:06
  This is the point that we made this connection and commitment and our life has gone from there.
• 8:12
  So I think if your values are there and that's what is important to you, then you can twist those traditions to fit your own kind of value system.
• 8:23
  A wedding now is just the ultimate creative expression of who a couple is.
• 8:30
  That's a really beautiful answer.
• 8:31
  I love that.
• 8:32
  It also makes me feel...
• 8:34
  absolutely overwhelmed with like, God, well, shit, I'm going to have to take a real effort if I get married, like with really thinking about it.
• 8:42
  Because in my head, I thought, I think I'm going to abdicate from all organizing.
• 8:47
  I think I'm going to just be like, do you know what?
• 8:49
  I don't care.
• 8:50
  All I want is some sunflowers and people to have a really fun dance.
• 8:53
  I would love to slightly start introducing the conversation of money and cost because I think when you talk about stripping out the pressure and doing something that feels like you, weirdly it makes me feel pressure because it's the idea of like, well, you want it to be so yourself.
• 9:10
  So then you're like, oh God, well now I've got to make it so myself.
• 9:12
  I'm sure there's a lot of people that have been married who felt like it was the most stressful organizing of their whole life.
• 9:20
  And then some that just it was actually the most fun, the best experience ever.
• 9:24
  But just quickly, I actually want to go over some of the averages.
• 9:27
  So we looked at these in terms of our top sort of three areas where our listeners are, which is New Zealand, Australia and the UK.
• 9:35
  And actually also the US.
• 9:36
  So in New Zealand, this is 2025 statistics, the average spent on a wedding was $87,600, which just to put that in perspective, so that's like not far off $100,000 being the average, which to be honest, I was kind of shocked by.
• 9:55
  That's up from about $58,000 only two years earlier.
• 9:59
  So when I hear that, I think, oh, my goodness, there's been such an enormous inflation.
• 10:04
  And we can get to that in a second.
• 10:05
  But just to touch on some of the other averages.
• 10:07
  So here in the UK, $25,000 is the average, which actually when you then turn that into, say, New Zealand or Australian dollars, it's actually less than the average in New Zealand, which I thought was quite interesting.
• 10:18
  Yeah.
• 10:20
  In the U.S., it's 35,000, which is probably a little bit closer to the New Zealand average.
• 10:25
  But I think the statistic that really I just felt like, oh, this is really concerning, is that 56% of U.S. couples in 2024 went into debt for their wedding.
• 10:36
  And one in three couples regretted how much they spent.
• 10:42
  There's so much to dig into here, and we obviously have done a big survey with our audience.
• 10:47
  We're going to check to see if that also stands up in terms of the similarities between those overarching statistics and what the curve audience spent regretted, what their average is.
• 10:56
  But, Margie, as someone who works in the industry, can we speak to what is driving that cost up so significantly?
• 11:02
  I think now weddings are huge.
• 11:06
  Yeah, they're like a brand event, really.
• 11:08
  A lot of the big ones, how they're put on and the ways that they are run.
• 11:11
  And I do think the biggest driver of that really is social media.
• 11:15
  A friend of mine who has been a real help to me as we've, you know, been building Vale and launching Vale, Lace Bolland from Place of LB, who's an amazing, amazing wedding artist.
• 11:24
  planner in Australia, does all the big weddings over there.
• 11:28
  And when I asked her about it, she really pointed to that event thing too because they work across massive brand campaigns and events as well as weddings.
• 11:36
  And she said to me that never before has she seen such a clear crossover.
• 11:41
  Yeah.
• 11:41
  Should we actually play a voice note from her?
• 11:44
  So just so everyone knows, this is Lace Bollin who has placed with LB.
• 11:48
  She runs it with her husband, Doug, in Australia.
• 11:51
  They have become one of the biggest, most sought-after winning planners in Australia and globally.
• 11:58
  I feel like with weddings at the moment, there absolutely is general inflation.
• 12:03
  It's the cost of living everywhere.
• 12:05
  Petrol is more expensive.
• 12:06
  Goods are more expensive.
• 12:08
  I feel like there is a natural inflation almost every year, the same as with every business.
• 12:12
  Businesses are generally going to put their prices up each year or their packages.
• 12:16
  So I feel like
• 12:17
  There is definitely that, but I feel like globally, whether a wedding or event, there is a genuine focus on event production now.
• 12:25
  So I feel like even since we've been doing this six years, you rarely saw weddings online, you know, whereas now every brand has a wedding line or they do dresses or they do the welcome dress or they're, you know,
• 12:37
  even for menswear, they're branching into there's more suit companies.
• 12:41
  And so I feel like there is a general trend around production.
• 12:44
  This is where I think there's a really big blur and miscommunication where I see it's too trend driven and the wedding has lost total meaning of who that couple is.
• 12:56
  Yeah.
• 12:56
  Like I can look at a wedding or an event and go, that is totally that couple, or I can go, I can pick the Pinterest image that came from.
• 13:03
  And I think that's the big issue at the moment
• 13:07
  You're not going to get unique from looking at Pinterest and things like that.
• 13:10
  I feel like it has to always be about the client, the general growth of social media and all these different platforms like between Pinterest, TikTok, Instagram.
• 13:19
  I think it's just slowly built a groundswell over the past few years because there's more visibility on these things, you know.
• 13:25
  When fashion week's on, you know, it's every brand is teasing it through socials and even via iPhone, you know, it's not even about the polished content anymore.
• 13:34
  It's like eight years ago, we would produce the most epic Chanel runway show, but no one was watching it unless you were there.
• 13:41
  Whereas now we're watching it as the people in the front row are.
• 13:45
  So I think you get to watch it straight away, you know, and everyone gets access to that.
• 13:49
  I completely agree with what she's saying on social media.
• 13:52
  It's just really interesting to me that there's parallels between the idea of a brand event or the, I mean, you see so many like incredible brand events now, whether it's a weekend away somewhere and they transform the entire hotel into the...
• 14:07
  Tala Hotel or whatever, you know, it's – or all the stuff you've seen Rode do.
• 14:12
  It's absolutely – it's so creative and it's so clever and it creates a real feeling around a brand, the visuals, the way that it shows up in the world and how people associate with that product or brand or whatever it is.
• 14:26
  And it's really interesting because hearing you say –
• 14:29
  you can sort of reshape the wedding or your event to represent you.
• 14:34
  It's almost like if you then extrapolate that out and think of, okay, well, you and your partner are the brand.
• 14:40
  How is that then being replicated in the form of a wedding?
• 14:43
  But yeah, as you say, it's actually just an event.
• 14:46
  It's the event of Mr. and Mrs. or Mrs. and Mrs. or Mr. and Mr. you know, and so,
• 14:52
  Yeah, that's a really interesting through line that people are almost spending the same amount of money as these global brands are.
• 15:00
  I think it's really interesting, this whole thing with social media as well, because I wonder if for some couples, right, who –
• 15:08
  have made a massive financial commitment and contribution to their wedding.
• 15:14
  I wonder whether there is something intrinsic for them in that if their wedding gets published or it goes viral or it's on social media and it gets all the likes, is that a bit of an emotional ROI?
• 15:28
  Oh my God, that's such a funny way to put it, emotional ROI.
• 15:31
  Return on your emotional investment.
• 15:33
  It's so true.
• 15:34
  It's definitely created this very trend-driven, very kind of like...
• 15:41
  cyclical industry that kind of sucks a lot of the life and heart and soul out of what it is, the ritual of it all.
• 15:52
  It's so interesting you bring up the trends or how it lives on social media because there's this Australian influencer, Jackie Alexander, I don't know if you know who I'm talking about, that she posted this video of her and her husband getting married and they had
• 16:06
  thing with all these candles.
• 16:08
  And the video of them was blowing the candles from either side of the cake and then kissing in the middle.
• 16:13
  And it was so beautiful.
• 16:14
  Like it looked amazing.
• 16:15
  It was, it was, it was just such a beautiful setup.
• 16:19
  Um, but I know for a fact that if I married my now boyfriend, there is no way in hell.
• 16:26
  that he would take part in anything like that.
• 16:28
  You know, like, obviously, it's her job to be creating content.
• 16:33
  So this is totally different.
• 16:34
  I guess the question I wanted to ask was there is this sort of trend-based blow-up in terms of how people are then spending money.
• 16:41
  But also what I hear spoken about so much is this wedding tax that's added on top as soon as you say this is a wedding or this is a – because you look at a birthday cake and how much that costs and then you look at a wedding cake, which could arguably be the same amount of batter and icing, yet it costs five times the price.
• 16:59
  How does that work and have you seen that?
• 17:02
  And I guess my sort of follow-up to that would be –
• 17:05
  I feel conflicted by the idea that if there's these small businesses that are run by a couple of women who have a cake business and they do predominantly wedding cakes and it's affected into how they run their business, that they cost X amount or whatever.
• 17:20
  I feel conflicted by saying you shouldn't charge that because we always talk about charge what you're worth, charge what you –
• 17:27
  So I don't know, but then at the same time, if you're going to plan something and you have to add an extra 20% purely because it is a wedding or an engagement, is that fair?
• 17:37
  I think it's a simplification, to be honest.
• 17:40
  The vendors that I have had the privilege of working with, talking to, meeting through the process of growing Vale, they have so much integrity in the work that they do, and a lot of them, you know, they really are passionate about it.
• 17:52
  It comes from their heart, what they do, whether they're doing work
• 17:55
  florals or they're making a cake.
• 17:58
  And so I think we've also got to acknowledge that a wedding versus a birthday, say, there's a lot more pressure around a wedding.
• 18:06
  There's not a
• 18:11
  you're kind of building this like dream scenario for what is ostensibly someone's kind of the biggest day of their life.
• 18:18
  And so I think there's, there's kind of like an added pressure on the vendor as well to always deliver.
• 18:24
  And it goes back to that thing of like priorities and values.
• 18:26
  Like before you start planning, sit down, figure out what you value, where you're going to prioritize and then try and find vendors who really align with you and with your vision.
• 18:37
  Because I,
• 18:39
  I think the good ones are really just doing the absolute best work that they possibly can.
• 18:45
  And, you know, I haven't, I personally haven't heard of like a wedding cake maker who's like rolling in it, like laughing, kind of laughing all the way to the bank.
• 18:56
  It's so true.
• 18:57
  I think it's really easy to say, oh, they've slapped on all this money because it's a wedding.
• 19:01
  Yeah.
• 19:02
  But I think you're asking them to put their absolute best foot forward for you, for your day.
• 19:08
  I have never thought about it in that way.
• 19:10
  And I think you're so right.
• 19:12
  It's in the same way you expect people to show up an extra 20% because it's a wedding cake or because it's a floral arrangement for the table of a wedding.
• 19:22
  There is an expectation for the standards to be X.
• 19:26
  So you pay extra for the standard to be that.
• 19:29
  And I think that's a really interesting point.
• 19:31
  Maggie, I would love to, if you feel comfortable, speak about your wedding.
• 19:37
  Because given you now work in an industry that is very much built on aspiration, on brand, on beautiful aesthetics.
• 19:47
  There is so much irony in the fact that your wedding actually, I mean, it was so beautiful.
• 19:53
  And the photos that I've seen and what you wore by no way detract from, it's not as though I think I look at or think about your wedding and think that it's miles away from Vale.
• 20:02
  It's more just that a lot of the weddings that you publish and the vendors and the people that you work with.
• 20:09
  are more in that quite large scale weddings.
• 20:14
  And yours was actually almost the opposite of that.
• 20:16
  You had a really small intimate ceremony.
• 20:20
  And I would love to speak about the decisions around why you got married in that way, how you feel about it in retrospect.
• 20:27
  Sometimes I look at the work I do every day with Vale and think, this is so funny because I was never really a big wedding gal.
• 20:35
  I guess I was almost more anti-bride.
• 20:38
  I always wanted to get married.
• 20:40
  I'd never really thought about the way in which I was going to do that.
• 20:44
  I'd already been with my husband, Joel, for a number of years.
• 20:48
  We were pregnant with our first child.
• 20:50
  You know, I just, I wasn't that bothered.
• 20:53
  And it was funny because my, it was something my mother-in-law actually said to me, maybe you guys should get married.
• 20:57
  And I was like, that is no, this is no way.
• 21:01
  And then I sat with it and it was between lockdowns.
• 21:03
  It's a funny time.
• 21:05
  As I said, I was pregnant and.
• 21:07
  And we were just like, look, should we just pull something together?
• 21:09
  We don't know what's really going on in the world.
• 21:11
  It's all a bit funny.
• 21:13
  We've got this baby on the way.
• 21:14
  It would actually be nice to celebrate something.
• 21:16
  But it's funny.
• 21:17
  It was a pretty, all in all, a pretty low-key affair.
• 21:21
  And I look back on it with real fondness.
• 21:23
  It was a very, very special affair.
• 21:26
  afternoon and probably not what I would have done had I not been pregnant or I had I had all the time in the world to plan.
• 21:31
  Was there any part of you or maybe in hindsight that now thinks maybe I would have wanted a bigger version or a different version or
• 21:41
  And I know it's so hard because the point of a wedding is it's a moment in time that feels so sacred.
• 21:45
  So it would be really weird to think, okay, I'm going to like rework that whole thing.
• 21:49
  It was there or is there any part of you that thinks it would be really fun to do something like big and elaborate.
• 21:55
  Particularly now having looked through so many weddings over the course of like since we've been building Vale.
• 22:03
  I'm like, oh, that would have been so amazing.
• 22:05
  And Joel and I have talked about doing a vow renewal process.
• 22:09
  I don't think I'd go back and do the big wedding.
• 22:11
  I think we've done that.
• 22:12
  I think if anything, we'd just have a party.
• 22:15
  And there are a lot of people now who are doing that split.
• 22:18
  I'm noticing people choosing to have an intimate ceremony, then a big party separate.
• 22:23
  The idea of saying vows walking down the aisle in front of 100 people makes me want to shit my pants.
• 22:31
  I can't tell you how nervous that makes me, which is so funny because every time I say something like that to someone, they're like,
• 22:37
  You talk on a podcast to thousands of people.
• 22:39
  Like, that's crazy.
• 22:40
  I just, it honestly terrifies me.
• 22:45
  And I love the idea of pulling out the ceremony and having it as a separate thing.
• 22:49
  The other thing I was thinking about is, you know, all these people that are now doing remote weddings, or sorry, destination weddings, you have to actually get married before you then go to the wedding.
• 22:59
  So the whole ceremony is kind of just like a play.
• 23:03
  I was like, oh, my God, that you don't even have to do it.
• 23:06
  You know, it's kind of like you're redoing it because it's beautiful to show your friends and family, but it's not actually legally binding.
• 23:13
  I was like, this is so funny.
• 23:14
  So one of the things that we asked our community and also if you're listening to this and you haven't filled this in, you still can.
• 23:21
  So we'll link it in the podcast show notes.
• 23:23
  We're also going to release all of this data because I think so many people are asking us, like, can we see, especially those who haven't got married yet and are trying to plan and figure out what they do and don't spend money on.
• 23:33
  But one of the things that we asked is what do you regret spending money on?
• 23:37
  And I'm going to read out the top five because I must say I was a little bit shocked and I'm really keen to hear what you think about this, Margie.
• 23:45
  So the first one and the most popular.
• 23:48
  was extra guests and therefore extra catering.
• 23:51
  So that, which I think is because a lot of people struggle to cut down, then you're almost resentful that you have to pay for Aunt Sally's meal.
• 24:00
  Quite interesting.
• 24:00
  So that was number one.
• 24:02
  Number two was florals.
• 24:05
  Number three was photographer and videographer because they did a shit job.
• 24:09
  Comparatively to actually when we get further down to what people really love spending money on, I think if they had a good photographer and videographer from memory, that was actually at the top of what they loved spending money on.
• 24:21
  So I think it's the people that were disappointed with what came out of it.
• 24:25
  That was something they really regretted.
• 24:27
  Number four, people said the cake because no one really ate it.
• 24:32
  And then the fifth was bridesmaids, which were expensive.
• 24:37
  You know, we need a full glam squad.
• 24:39
  So I get that.
• 24:40
  Do any of those answers surprise you?
• 24:42
  No, the first one particularly, like, it's kind of just such a fundamental, like, first building block of any wedding, I think, is, like, get your list down.
• 24:53
  Like, write your list.
• 24:55
  It has to be ironclad, and it has to go along with the venue that you found.
• 24:58
  So, like, once you've got your kind of, like,
• 25:02
  venue that you can afford.
• 25:04
  This is the venue.
• 25:04
  This is in our budget.
• 25:05
  How many people does it hold?
• 25:07
  Right.
• 25:08
  That has to dictate our list.
• 25:09
  Do you think do it that way around rather than list than venue?
• 25:13
  It depends on what's more important to you.
• 25:15
  That's why I say I think for couples to sit down and go through what their priorities are and make sure their priorities are aligned is so important because I don't know how...
• 25:25
  If someone...
• 25:27
  is the type of person who doesn't want to leave anyone out.
• 25:30
  Like they're probably going to end up with like 200 people at their wedding.
• 25:32
  That is me, by the way.
• 25:34
  Like if I had a big wedding, if I had a big wedding, it would blow so far out of proportion.
• 25:39
  We'd just have to be in like a field in the middle of nowhere.
• 25:42
  I think if there's someone who, you know, you can be a little bit more discerning, then yeah, you can have the venue that only fits like 60 to 80 people.
• 25:51
  I think you just got to figure out what your priorities are.
• 25:53
  But I do see how people blow out on that because it's such an emotional decision.
• 25:57
  Like it's hard to be cutthroat and be like, Aunt Sally can't come.
• 25:59
  Sorry.
• 26:00
  You know, and obviously not all couples.
• 26:02
  There are a lot of couples who are kind of opposites.
• 26:05
  You've just got to figure out what really matters to you, how you want to feel on the day, what matters to you the most, and what's important to your respective families.
• 26:12
  Some people come from cultures where it is culturally important to have not only your family and extended family, but kind of like your extended family.
• 26:23
  So if you've got like a couple where you've got one person who's that and the other person who only wants kind of four people from their family.
• 26:31
  How do you align those things?
• 26:32
  I don't know.
• 26:32
  I think you just have to have those discussions really openly and honestly and vulnerably.
• 26:39
  And some of the other things on there, I think, come back to that question of what we discussed before, which is about finding vendors who align with your vision and with your budget and with what you want from the day.
• 26:51
  Yeah.
• 26:51
  And I guess there's obviously a difference in recruiting spending five grand on a cake.
• 26:55
  I actually don't.
• 26:56
  I think that's how much cakes are.
• 26:57
  Whereas if you've spent an extra 20 grand on catering for guests that you don't want, there's like a real difference.
• 27:04
  Like regretting something a little bit smaller, I'm sure, is not such a huge regret.
• 27:09
  But I imagine like a lot of the fact that bridesmaids made it on here, I thought was really interesting because –
• 27:15
  We speak a lot about like who should be paying for the bridesmaid dress, who should be paying.
• 27:19
  And it's, it's so it's, yeah, it's really an interesting one.
• 27:23
  There's so much that you can pull out from a wedding because obviously there's the hens do if you have one.
• 27:29
  There's, um, yeah, I think it's hard when there's so many costs involved for women to look a certain way at a wedding.
• 27:38
  Um.
• 27:40
  But I sort of feel like, and this might be controversial, but I feel like if it's your day and you want people to look a certain way, that's kind of on you to pay for that.
• 27:48
  That's my personal opinion.
• 27:50
  I don't know if that's like, you know, my, but then in saying that,
• 27:54
  I was going to say a bit then in saying that one of my best friends got married in Portugal and she offered to pay for our dresses.
• 28:01
  And I actually just was like, I'm just going to buy something I can wear again and again.
• 28:04
  And you don't then have to pay for it.
• 28:05
  Because I knew how much they were spending on the actual wedding.
• 28:08
  And that was my own choice.
• 28:09
  And I felt fine with that.
• 28:11
  And I think all the other bridesmaids did the same thing.
• 28:13
  But I think ultimately offering is like a nice gesture for people who either can't afford it, but want to be involved in your day.
• 28:19
  But I don't know if you have any thoughts on the bridesmaids piece.
• 28:23
  I think if, yeah, I think if you have expectations about how, you know, your bridesmaids are going to look or you're, you're basically saying this is the dress you must wear.
• 28:34
  I do think you have to pay for it as the, as the couple.
• 28:39
  I do.
• 28:39
  I do because I think, you know, guests do make a big financial commitment to attend a wedding and, um.
• 28:49
  And I also think there are so many different ways you can slice it with bridesmaids.
• 28:51
  You know, as you said, it's like, look, just go out and find a dress that you really love or something that you love kind of in this color palette that you will wear again.
• 29:00
  I think that's a fair enough thing to ask of people.
• 29:02
  And I think if they're your best friends, they probably will be happy to do that.
• 29:06
  But I think if you're like, here is the exact dress you must wear, it's $800 you need to buy.
• 29:11
  It's fuchsia.
• 29:11
  Yeah.
• 29:14
  And it's a turtleneck and you will be wearing it.
• 29:16
  Yeah.
• 29:17
  I think that's a really tall order in this day and age.
• 29:20
  I think it is.
• 29:21
  I think it's tough.
• 29:23
  And again, it goes back to like if that's the kind of wedding you want where everything is perfect and it looks all perfect and the production value is high, do you have the budget for that?
• 29:33
  Those little details included.
• 29:35
  And if you don't have the budget, then temper your expectations to what your budget is.
• 29:40
  I'm going to read some of the answers that came through.
• 29:44
  because I think they're quite funny.
• 29:47
  So someone said, my wedding dress, I paid almost $2,000 for a Victoria Beckham dress for my elopement.
• 29:55
  It was beautiful, but I look back and think, why did I do that?
• 29:59
  Now I have it sitting in my wardrobe when that money could be doing something else.
• 30:03
  And honestly, when I saw $2,000, I thought, isn't that quite normal?
• 30:07
  I feel like people spend a lot of money on dresses.
• 30:09
  I don't know if that's me sounding really bratty.
• 30:12
  But when she said $2,000, I was like, I feel like some people spend upwards of $10,000 on their dress.
• 30:18
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 30:19
  I mean, it sounds like she probably bought an off-the-rack Victoria Beckham dress for an allotment because she does do beautiful white or cream dresses.
• 30:26
  It's so much.
• 30:28
  And then it sits there.
• 30:29
  Well, if you don't think you're going to wear a white dress again, even if it's not like a custom wedding dress...
• 30:36
  Yeah, I understand.
• 30:38
  I do understand that sentiment.
• 30:40
  Equally, there are some people for whom that's kind of the only thing they want to spend their money on.
• 30:45
  Someone actually on that vein said, I regret not spending enough on hair and makeup.
• 30:49
  I think there's probably nothing worse than planning the wedding and then having really shit makeup in here.
• 30:55
  You're like, oh, come on.
• 30:56
  Because I actually think how you feel is so – well, for me, it's so impacted with how I think I look.
• 31:04
  Yeah.
• 31:05
  Which sounds terrible, but I really notice that if I have a beautiful outfit that I feel really confident in or I've spent time doing my hair and makeup, I feel so good and I definitely show up in a different energy.
• 31:16
  Like today when I came to this podcast even, I look at your beautiful blonde bob and I think, why don't I have a Dyson and why have I not made an effort?
• 31:24
  And every time this happens to me.
• 31:26
  So I guess I understand the idea of wanting to feel really good.
• 31:30
  Some of the other things that came through was, I'm not sure I regretted anything, but I spent five figures on a floral arrangement for the ceremony and my dress ended up covering 90% of it in the photos.
• 31:40
  Yeah.
• 31:42
  I regret spending money on a bus to get people home at the end of the night.
• 31:46
  It was $600.
• 31:47
  It was bad service.
• 31:48
  And 10 people used the 50-seater.
• 31:50
  Almost 35 said that they would, but then didn't.
• 31:53
  But that's so classic.
• 31:54
  At the end of the night, you get your invite.
• 31:57
  You click, yes, I'll be using the bus.
• 31:58
  And then something happens, and you get a taxi or someone gives you a ride home.
• 32:03
  I so get that.
• 32:04
  Getting a marquee, I really regret it.
• 32:05
  It was 5,000 and it was so much work.
• 32:08
  It would have been so much easier to just go to a venue that did everything for you.
• 32:11
  That I thought was quite interesting because I think if you choose a venue that you love and it's beautiful but it's not set up for weddings, you forget.
• 32:17
  You have to hire chairs and glasses and that just is a major.
• 32:22
  Yeah.
• 32:22
  And so this is where I think...
• 32:26
  Wedding planners are so valuable.
• 32:29
  If you can factor one into your budget, I think ultimately they would save you money.
• 32:37
  Because if you're doing the big wedding and you've never planned a wedding before, you've never planned a big event for like 100, 150 people before, even 80 people, you're...
• 32:46
  You just don't know what you don't know.
• 32:48
  And so I'm not surprised that wedding planners are kind of busier and busier and busier because I think couples are really seeing the value proposition and using them because they can go, okay, cool.
• 32:59
  What's your budget?
• 33:00
  This is what's realistic for you.
• 33:02
  And I also think a lot of those wedding planners have relationships with vendors so they can get better deals anyway.
• 33:07
  It's almost like going wholesale.
• 33:09
  Yeah.
• 33:09
  Big time.
• 33:10
  I'm sure it's expensive to have one, but I also just feel like the mental load of someone that's organized and can do that probably would make me feel more inclined to even have a wedding in the first place.
• 33:19
  Someone said a DJ they regretted, which is there wasn't that many people that said they regretted the money they spent on the entertainment, but they spent $3,000 plus a day.
• 33:28
  A thousand for the saxophonist, but he was pretty bad.
• 33:31
  And not playing requested songs.
• 33:34
  I should have gone for a band instead.
• 33:36
  And I honestly just cannot half-hold enough about how important it is to have bangers and sing-alongs at a wedding.
• 33:42
  We are not interested in being cool.
• 33:44
  If there is a DJ trying to be cool at a wedding,
• 33:47
  leave your ego at the door mate like this is this is sing-along central oh my gosh like it's it's it's you have to have such a deep understanding of the like generational cross-section that is that is at a wedding there's no point in like alienating the the oldies how sad if you have like granny susan at the back not dancing because she doesn't recognize a song you know yeah i know
• 34:10
  One of the things that we also asked was what was worth every penny.
• 34:14
  So we've ordered this in terms of the top five.
• 34:16
  So what were the most popular answers for things that people loved spending money on?
• 34:21
  So number one, the people who loved their videographer and photographer said it was the best thing they spend money on by a country mile, which is so interesting because when you learn, especially as someone who used to do this for a job, when people learn how much it is, they're shocked.
• 34:37
  Shocked and appalled.
• 34:38
  It is, firstly, so much work to shoot a wedding.
• 34:42
  Secondly, the turnaround of, like, getting someone something, ideally straight away.
• 34:45
  They want some of those photos or videos.
• 34:48
  You have to, like, turn stuff around almost at, like, midnight the night of.
• 34:51
  But also...
• 34:53
  The pressure of getting great footage or photos is so enormous.
• 34:58
  And it kind of comes back to how you spoke about the vendors and the idea that actually if you're paying, you're paying for quality.
• 35:03
  So that was number one.
• 35:04
  Number two, people really loved and didn't regret spending money on their venue, which kind of matches what you were saying.
• 35:10
  Number three, people really valued and didn't regret spending money on catering, which I've
• 35:15
  thought was fascinating.
• 35:16
  I thought that that would not make its way in there.
• 35:18
  So obviously it's people making decisions on what actually they want in terms of do they really value fine dining and so they want to pay extra for that or do they want something casual where people aren't sitting down therefore they were happy with their decision to do it in whatever way.
• 35:34
  I think this is the biggest cost that probably swings people right in terms of it being really expensive or not.
• 35:39
  Because the sit down, the idea of think how expensive it is to go out for dinner and pay for people.
• 35:44
  I mean, last night I went out for a hundred pound meal.
• 35:47
  And then the last two that people love spending money on was band, like the band, music.
• 35:53
  I was surprised that wasn't higher, to be honest.
• 35:56
  And then rings.
• 35:57
  There were so many really good comments that came through.
• 36:02
  Definitely the common thread through a lot of these comments was people really loved spending money on the things that created lasting memories.
• 36:11
  So whether that's the ring that's lasted for a long time, whether it's the videographer or the sort of, I guess, content that's come from it, which is quite interesting when we go back to the idea of...
• 36:22
  how people are now thinking about them in terms of how they show up, whether it's in print or they're published or it's just something that they keep for themselves.
• 36:28
  That is what people are really valuing.
• 36:31
  So it's quite interesting to then think, okay, well, if it's that stuff that's like standing the test of time or that will live on beyond the day, a lot of that is then how it looks in photos, which is kind of almost counterintuitive.
• 36:44
  Because I just think really it's the only way to look back and relive the day.
• 36:49
  I mean, I was speaking to a bride the other day who, you know, was talking about how they invested a lot in that component of their wedding and how it just really has paid dividends for them in terms of like the memories they've got from that and they've now gone.
• 37:03
  And...
• 37:05
  and created like a beautiful album with milk books that kind of documented their day.
• 37:11
  And, you know, they'll have that forever and their kids can read that.
• 37:13
  And I think those are the things that you're really going to take from this and look back fondly.
• 37:20
  So in terms of a value proposition, that does really make sense to me that things like videography and photography is money well spent.
• 37:27
  I've had a few conversations over the last few months with this woman, Chelsea Arne Jackson, who's a bridal strategist who's based in the States.
• 37:35
  And she's just launched her own bridal wedding publication called Alter.
• 37:40
  But she also has put out this piece of research recently called the Ceremony Index.
• 37:46
  And it's deep, deep research into the wedding industry.
• 37:51
  Particularly interesting, I think, for vendors who want to see and understand where couples are spending their money on.
• 37:58
  where they're putting value.
• 38:00
  She kind of says the future of bridal will not be decided by what is most visible.
• 38:04
  It will be decided by what rings true.
• 38:06
  And in this moment, truth is the rarest luxury of all.
• 38:10
  And I think what she really talks about throughout this piece of research, and she uses a lot of numbers and data to back it up, is that
• 38:19
  Couples are valuing authenticity, storytelling, connection, truth, honesty.
• 38:25
  I think they're really moving away from the fatigue of content and aesthetic.
• 38:31
  She calls it anti-spectacle aesthetics, which I think is really fascinating because...
• 38:37
  Again, it's that paradox with a wedding, right?
• 38:40
  It's like it is a spectacle in many regards.
• 38:42
  It is.
• 38:42
  It just is by its very nature, by the number of people you have there, by the kind of big declarations of love.
• 38:48
  But it is also the most intimate of things, really.
• 38:53
  And so how do you balance those two things in a way that feel authentic?
• 38:56
  And what your data has shown is...
• 39:00
  Is that that is true, is that couples are really valuing, they're going, right, what is meaningful to me?
• 39:05
  Well, it's the memories.
• 39:08
  Maggie, one of the things I wanted to speak about, which is quite controversial, and I was desperate to put it in our research piece, but I really want to talk to you about it, is...
• 39:17
  The idea that a lot of people don't talk about how much family contributions there are when it comes to the cost of the wedding, the strings attached to that, who has control over what it looks like, who attends, all of that.
• 39:29
  I've attended so many weddings where they're so beautiful and there is absolutely no way in hell that that couple paid for it because who could?
• 39:40
  So many of us don't have that kind of money and that's totally fine.
• 39:43
  But when
• 39:43
  when it then came to saying thank you for the wedding, I honestly felt like I needed to ask for their parents' number to send a message to say thank you for the wedding because they'd obviously funded so much of it.
• 39:52
  And I've had that time and time again.
• 39:54
  And obviously, you know, there's some friends that you might be able to say, hey, you know, did your parents contribute or how did that work?
• 40:02
  And some people are open to talking about it and some are not, and that's totally fine.
• 40:06
  But I really wanted to ask our community, you know,
• 40:10
  Did you ask for contributions?
• 40:13
  Did they offer?
• 40:13
  How did that work?
• 40:15
  And I was quite fascinated by what came back.
• 40:18
  Almost 50% said savings, which I thought was like really impressive.
• 40:23
  And then 50% said family contributions.
• 40:26
  And so that piece is really interesting to me where it's like it's almost an even split between people who paid for it themselves by saving and then those who had family contributions.
• 40:34
  But there was also quite a split between people who saved a certain amount and then family topped up the rest.
• 40:39
  But then there were...
• 40:41
  a decent amount, like 10%, 10%, 10% across credit card, loan, and debt, which for a financially savvy audience, that's quite interesting to me and not judgmental.
• 40:51
  I mean, like obviously if you want a certain day and it's really important to you to spend money and you don't have access to family or –
• 40:58
  but you really want to spend money on stuff.
• 41:00
  I get it.
• 41:01
  Most people said that they had family contributions with no strings attached, which I thought was quite cool.
• 41:07
  I'm sure there's definitely going to be some horror stories of people who are like, oh no, it was a bit of a disaster.
• 41:11
  But one person said, yes, my stepfather insisted his whole family could come.
• 41:16
  I'd never spent time with a lot of them.
• 41:19
  And then he only paid for mine and my bridesmaids flowers.
• 41:23
  This is so funny.
• 41:24
  Someone said, my dad attempted to buy his way to get more of his family invited.
• 41:29
  It was a no deal from us.
• 41:30
  Sorry, this is not a ticketed event.
• 41:32
  We only accepted contributions from my mom, who had no strings attached.
• 41:37
  And best decision was that we had the best day with the people who actually we 100% wanted to have there.
• 41:42
  I think that's quite good too, is like being discerning about how and what you take on and also being really clear about, are there strings attached to this?
• 41:50
  Is there stuff that you expect?
• 41:52
  Do you want to see what we're spending?
• 41:54
  And if the answer to any of those things doesn't sit well with you, then it's like, well, we're not taking that money.
• 41:58
  One of the things quickly that I think we should cover before we move on is just the idea of talking openly with your partner about the trade-offs of spending money on the wedding versus other things.
• 42:10
  Because the reality is everyone feels like they never have enough money to do all the things they want to do, whether it's for the wedding or it's for your life.
• 42:19
  I know for me, the biggest learning has been I do not have enough money for all the stuff I need, want, etc.
• 42:27
  It's just like a reality has been learning to prioritize.
• 42:32
  And I think when you are really aware of your numbers and how much you have, you can then be quite clear on, okay, well, if I only have 200 pounds this month to spend on things that I want to do, do I want to go out for a hundred pound dinner or would I rather do 10 coffees and pastries with friends?
• 42:48
  You know, you actually start to look at like, what can I spend versus, you know, like you decide whether it's clothes or whatever.
• 42:55
  And majority of people to this answer said, yes, we did talk about whether or not we wanted to spend the money on a wedding or other things, which again, doesn't surprise me given the audience that were answering this question.
• 43:04
  I was like, nice, everyone.
• 43:06
  Good work.
• 43:07
  Maybe I'll read a couple of things that were the funniest that came through from this or most interesting.
• 43:11
  So someone said, yes, which is why we were engaged for such a long time before getting married, because we had so many things that we had to nut out and get on the same page with, which makes a lot of sense.
• 43:19
  Because it is.
• 43:20
  It's so much you have to unpack.
• 43:21
  Someone else said, not really.
• 43:23
  I'm the CFO in our relationship.
• 43:26
  and I am also the organized one.
• 43:28
  So I was able to really think it through from an expense perspective, but we were also relatively on the same page.
• 43:34
  And I guess also it's like if someone opts out and they're like, do you know what?
• 43:37
  You take control.
• 43:37
  Fine.
• 43:38
  Like you, they just have to not be bitter or have any issues with what you spend or don't spend, I guess.
• 43:43
  And then someone said, I tried to, but honestly, he was so indifferent when it came to money conversations that that probably should have been a red flag to pay attention to.
• 43:51
  Lesson learned.
• 43:52
  Dun, dun, dun.
• 43:53
  Like, can we get you on the podcast?
• 43:56
  And I guess this also comes back to, like, are your expenses or your finances joint or not?
• 44:01
  Because is the money you're spending both of your decision to make?
• 44:05
  Before you sit down to plan a wedding and to make that commitment to someone for, you know, the rest of your life.
• 44:13
  these are the kinds of conversations.
• 44:14
  I mean, hopefully you are somewhat on the same page financially in terms of what your priorities and your values are.
• 44:22
  Like if you've got a shared value system, even if you're very different people, even if you make different amounts of money, your incomes are very different, your circumstances are very different.
• 44:30
  If your values align, then I think you can find common ground, hopefully.
• 44:36
  As that listener obviously said, it's a red flag if
• 44:40
  if something is important to you and, and your partner is completely indifferent to it, it's like that theory of the bird, the bird outside, you know, it's like, if you say to your partner, Oh, there's a bird outside and they don't seem to give a shit.
• 44:51
  Then it's usually a pretty good indication that like, if they don't really align with you on the small things, they're never going to align with you on the big things.
• 44:57
  If you don't know your actual answer to something or how you feel about it, you actually have to just explore it and think about it too.
• 45:04
  And I think that's why if you then look at people who get married really quickly or even, you know, our grandparents and they went on two dates and then all of a sudden they're married, of course they hadn't talked about money or how to fund the wedding and it was just completely out of their hands because it does take time to have those conversations and yeah, and to really understand what someone's value set is in life as well as in money.
• 45:26
  So actually giving it space and time to like simmer, I think, is a really nice thing.
• 45:30
  Weddings back in our parents' and grandparents' day, certainly our grandparents' day, were completely a, well, not completely, but a lot of the time were an economic proposition and the roles were very set.
• 45:42
  So you probably didn't really have to have those conversations.
• 45:44
  Like the woman probably wasn't going into the workplace.
• 45:46
  She probably didn't really earn a salary.
• 45:48
  The man had X amount of money.
• 45:50
  And weddings were kind of...
• 45:52
  I think probably more rote to a degree in terms of how they were structured and what was expected from the day.
• 45:57
  So I was like, okay, well, it's probably the parents just pay for this.
• 46:00
  Or, you know, traditionally the bride's parents would have paid or there would have been some kind of dowry or something.
• 46:06
  So now we've got all this freedom to do anything we want, which is a really beautiful thing, but it just comes with these trickier conversations about how do we – where are the boundaries?
• 46:18
  Where are the lines?
• 46:18
  What are we comfortable with?
• 46:20
  What are we comfortable with spending?
• 46:21
  We've spoken about so much in this episode, and I think it's been a really nice combination of learning and looking at some of the data that's come in, as well as hearing your perspective and your experience getting married.
• 46:32
  Is there anything else we haven't touched on or any final thoughts that might be nice to leave someone listening to this episode with?
• 46:39
  I think for me, it really always just comes back to remembering the why.
• 46:45
  I certainly use that as my North Star in everything that we do with Vale.
• 46:50
  And I think it's just a very simple, uncomplicated word that brings you back to kind of the heart of the whole thing.
• 47:00
  Why are you marrying this person?
• 47:02
  Why do you want to make this commitment?
• 47:03
  Why are you having a wedding?
• 47:06
  Those are the biggest questions to ask yourself and to kind of look internally and examine.
• 47:11
  And then honestly, the how will come.
• 47:13
  Like how you do it, what dress, what flowers, what da-da-da.
• 47:16
  It'll all come.
• 47:17
  It'll flow.
• 47:17
  It'll happen when you've kind of got the fundamentals down.
• 47:21
  I've looked at so many weddings over the last kind of year doing this publication, and it
• 47:31
  in your own backyard with your local restaurant catering, or whether you are in a castle, you know, on Lake Como.
• 47:41
  If a wedding feels like
• 47:44
  like the celebration of this like authentic connection and it feels like a true representation of, of that couple.
• 47:51
  It, you feel it.
• 47:52
  You really do.
• 47:53
  You truly do.
• 47:54
  I can tell whether a couple is kind of posing and, and doing it for the kind of editorial aesthetic and whether that's just, it's, it's kind of, um, um,
• 48:05
  authentic and there's something really compelling about the latter so I would just say to people to remember to remember what's important and then and then the rest will flow from there oh beautiful words of wisdom thank you so much Maggie I I honestly think we could talk about weddings and the cost of them and the design and just all the intricacies from a
• 48:26
  cultural and societal perspective, like for a very, very long time.
• 48:29
  There's, there's so much nuance and actually deep thinking involved when it comes to what are weddings now?
• 48:36
  What do they mean to us, you know, in the broader context, but also to, to couples individually.
• 48:43
  And it's fascinating.
• 48:44
  And I also think that the love and money side of things is so fascinating.
• 48:48
  So, um, thank you so much for sharing all of your thoughts and insights and, um,
• 48:53
  For anyone that would like to see, hear, be more involved in Vail, we'll obviously link it all in the podcast show notes.
• 49:00
  And if anyone wants to either submit their experience or see the results from the survey that we did, you can click the link in the podcast show notes.
• 49:08
  We have made sure everything is anonymous.
• 49:10
  So if you're just curious to have a look around and see what people said, some of the interesting comments, some of that data, then you can find that.
• 49:17
  Anyone can have a little look.
• 49:18
  But thank you so much, Maggie.
• 49:20
  Have a great sleep and we'll talk to you soon.
• 49:23
  We have an exciting giveaway.
• 49:24
  If you've listened to this episode, you've made it all the way to the end, we've got a treat for you.
• 49:28
  So we've teamed up with Veil Magazine and with Milk Book to give away a little package that's worth $2,000.
• 49:36
  This is available only if you're in New Zealand and Australia, but you can win a Veil bundle as well as your very own Milk Books printed.
• 49:43
  It could be your wedding photos.
• 49:45
  It could be travel photos.
• 49:47
  If you would like to be in to win, all you have to do is share this episode to your Instagram story, tag at thecurveplatform, at Vale Magazine, and at Milk Books.
• 49:56
  We'll put those handles in the podcast show notes, but good luck to everyone and thanks so much for listening.
• 50:01
  Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
• 50:03
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• 50:10
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• 50:16
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• 50:17
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• 50:22
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• 50:22
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• 50:23
  So please do it.
• 50:24
  Okay.
• 50:24
  Love you.
• 50:25
  Bye.
• 50:28
  Okay, quickly, the Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing, but we are not financial advisors.
• 50:34
  Our platform exists for educational purposes only, and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
• 50:43
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• 50:48
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• 50:52
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• 50:53
  You got this.
• 50:54
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