Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Springboks Celebrate Series Victory in the USA — the Game Victor said was just an Exhibition

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Springboks Celebrate Series Victory in the USA — the Game Victor said was just an Exhibition · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  That early tackle and that leg trip is definitely a penalty and definitely a yellow card.
• 0:06
  And I thought the rhythm of the game was falling our way.
• 0:10
  You guys tried to slow down the game yesterday.
• 0:12
  I don't know why.
• 0:13
  We tried to slow down the game.
• 0:14
  Are you kidding yourself?
• 0:16
  You're going to play on, Dave Rennie.
• 0:17
  Let's say he loses one more game at the end of the year tour.
• 0:19
  Let's say he loses against England.
• 0:21
  What then?
• 0:22
  I just get upset when the All Blacks lose, mate.
• 0:24
  It makes me sad.
• 0:25
  And especially when I have to wear this jersey and I have to go to the doctor again to get rid of the rash that it causes on my skin.
• 0:37
  Welcome to another edition of Ram Handhand Couriers Rugby Rivals.
• 0:42
  And so, Victor, are you happy with the exhibition match?
• 0:46
  Yeah, I told you, okay, if he just went for the exhibition game, sorry, then we might have let them win.
• 0:56
  But now he wanted to throw it in.
• 0:58
  It's an important game.
• 1:01
  So, yeah, he got the box up, and that's what happened when the box get up for a game.
• 1:06
  You want me to talk now, do you?
• 1:07
  You look really grumpy.
• 1:09
  Where do you want me to start?
• 1:11
  Yeah, I'm very, very grumpy.
• 1:12
  I did not sleep last night after that game.
• 1:15
  I'm having a mimosa, boys, just saying on the block.
• 1:18
  Well done, mate.
• 1:19
  Firstly, congratulations to the Springboks on winning the series.
• 1:24
  I thought it was an amazing series.
• 1:25
  I thought it was fantastic for rugby.
• 1:27
  I thought it was great.
• 1:29
  Both sides gave everything.
• 1:31
  It was incredible.
• 1:33
  What frustrated me last night though, it really was the refereeing.
• 1:36
  Just something about the way he refs.
• 1:38
  You just can't get any rhythm.
• 1:39
  And I thought a couple of decisions went against us.
• 1:43
  I mean,
• 1:46
  That early tackle and that leg trip is definitely a penalty and definitely a yellow card.
• 1:53
  And I thought the rhythm of the game.
• 1:55
  Simultaneously.
• 1:56
  I thought the rhythm.
• 1:57
  I thought the rhythm of the game was falling our way.
• 2:01
  You know, I thought we're going to come back like the first test.
• 2:05
  I thought the Springboks were out on their feet.
• 2:08
  Leg tripping an early tackle.
• 2:10
  He looks at it three times.
• 2:12
  If you're a New Zealander, you look at it and go, that's an early tackle and a trip every day of the week.
• 2:16
  He looks at it.
• 2:18
  and it's a 14-point turnaround.
• 2:20
  Like, for me, that was the game there.
• 2:22
  So that was frustrating.
• 2:23
  I want to ask you a question, Victor.
• 2:25
  What was that first indirect penalty for in the scrum?
• 2:30
  First one, it was first a free kick because they put the break foot back and then a second one because they don't want to scrum.
• 2:38
  So they want to get into a good position too early, and that's why the scrum go down so often.
• 2:44
  That's why they put their foot up at scrum time.
• 2:48
  to get it nice, to get the scrum a little bit higher.
• 2:51
  And, yeah, Cody just put that foot back too early.
• 2:54
  I thought the second one was actually, I thought it was on the heat that he put it down.
• 2:59
  But, yeah, unfortunately, the rest thought a little bit early.
• 3:03
  Yes, I think, you know, like retrospectively, I think the Springboks deserved to win the series in the end.
• 3:10
  I think that we had...
• 3:13
  You know, we made too many critical errors at the wrong time.
• 3:16
  I think we need to go away and look at that.
• 3:17
  I think there's some silly penalties at critical times.
• 3:20
  I think the, you know, Tupovai holding on a bit too long when we're putting them under pressure.
• 3:26
  So we just let the game slip a wee bit.
• 3:28
  But that doesn't take away from what a great series it was, Victor.
• 3:31
  I think it's been fantastic for the game.
• 3:33
  I think it's been amazing.
• 3:35
  um you know amazing series i've just absolutely loved it but i was pretty frustrated yesterday to be last night to be fair i mean i don't know let's put the results aside do you think that referee helps the rhythm of the game every time he refs people are doing a bloody mexican wave it means i'm bored but it was you guys tried to slow down the game yesterday i don't know why uh
• 3:58
  We tried to slow down the game.
• 4:00
  Are you kidding yourself?
• 4:02
  They did want to do like strapping and everything.
• 4:04
  So, I mean, we didn't even go for the scrum penalties yesterday.
• 4:08
  We just said, let's play a normal game without scrum penalties and still went well.
• 4:13
  That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, Victor.
• 4:16
  We slow the game down.
• 4:18
  You did, but first off, you were down the whole time.
• 4:22
  Trying to get strapping, blood replacements.
• 4:24
  I don't know what else.
• 4:26
  Well, Victor, just on that, I mean, there was probably the most blatant slowing down you've ever seen when Steph De Toit was down behind the posts.
• 4:35
  Then he ran all the way to halfway, and then he went down again.
• 4:38
  And then the referee even said to him, you're kidding me, aren't you?
• 4:43
  He just wanted strapping on his knee.
• 4:45
  He did go off because of that injury.
• 4:49
  Two minutes later, Cameron Hanakong came on and he actually made a big impact.
• 4:53
  Victor, do you know what selected him?
• 4:55
  He went off after two minutes.
• 4:57
  But in the first half, you guys also sat down for like three or four times.
• 5:02
  And you pulled out the referee's earpiece so that he couldn't hear.
• 5:06
  We had to slow down again.
• 5:07
  We had momentum and everything.
• 5:11
  You have selective eyesight.
• 5:13
  How many of those mimosas have you had?
• 5:15
  Like, you're kidding yourself.
• 5:16
  We do not slow the game down.
• 5:17
  First of all, I'm coming to Italy.
• 5:18
  Now you're leaving.
• 5:19
  I thought I would come into your house and have a braai.
• 5:22
  Now listen.
• 5:23
  Let's try and be objective.
• 5:25
  Let's try and be objective about this because –
• 5:27
  Why would you put a Northern Hemisphere ref in charge of a Southern Hemisphere game?
• 5:32
  Because forget the results.
• 5:34
  You guys deserve to win.
• 5:36
  I'll admit that.
• 5:38
  I think right across the series, you were the better side.
• 5:41
  It came to the wire.
• 5:42
  Even last night, the points didn't reflect the intensity and the critical moments in the game.
• 5:48
  But this ref has the ability to just make the game pedantic.
• 5:53
  Do you agree or not?
• 5:55
  I thought he didn't want to make calls.
• 5:59
  I don't know you said anything.
• 6:01
  I thought there was quite a few turnovers at the break time.
• 6:04
  He didn't want to give to us.
• 6:06
  There was one where Dion Fri definitely had it.
• 6:09
  You guys got the penalty.
• 6:10
  It was almost like he didn't want to make calls.
• 6:14
  I didn't feel like he slowed it down.
• 6:16
  I think in some circumstances, I mean, the...
• 6:19
  The year piece that didn't work slowed it down and then quite a few injuries, quite a few blood injuries.
• 6:25
  So that just slowed it down.
• 6:28
  And also, I don't know how the communication was with the TMO because it took a long time to get those decision made.
• 6:36
  But I thought all the decisions they made to the TMO were spot on, 100%.
• 6:42
  But again, let's go, let's leave for the referee.
• 6:45
  I think just if you looked afterwards, I mean, seeing the two teams pray together.
• 6:50
  I've never seen an All-Black and a Springbok team after a series get together in a huddle, pray together.
• 6:58
  Unbelievable.
• 6:59
  The respect that there was.
• 7:01
  I mean, you guys coming over.
• 7:02
  South Africans just loved the New Zealanders and the old players, even you, JK, they loved over here.
• 7:08
  And I think it was such a big success.
• 7:11
  I think amazing.
• 7:12
  Hopefully, we can keep doing this.
• 7:14
  Hopefully, when we come to New Zealand, it's going to be another great series.
• 7:19
  But it is.
• 7:20
  I mean, these two countries were always delivered when it comes to rugby.
• 7:25
  Can I just jump in?
• 7:27
  Let's forget about the referee because, you know.
• 7:31
  No, no, no, no, Riccardo.
• 7:33
  I need to say one more thing, mate.
• 7:34
  I need to say one more thing.
• 7:35
  Get out of your system and we'll move on.
• 7:37
  Yeah, exactly.
• 7:37
  I need to say one more thing.
• 7:38
  I totally agree with Victor about the game, about the love we have for each other, and the boys praying.
• 7:43
  I think it's amazing.
• 7:44
  But the refs make a massive difference and they need to get better.
• 7:47
  For example, Victor, I thought that South Africa at the breakdown were really, really on the limit.
• 7:53
  They never released the player.
• 7:56
  They stuck onto the player and they slowed the ball down and the ref let them do it.
• 8:01
  And we would have done exactly the same.
• 8:03
  My trouble is that you've got to release the player.
• 8:06
  So our ball was incredibly slow because the South African defensive player really pushed the limit.
• 8:13
  Now, if the referee's any good in the first five minutes, he penalises that and no one does it.
• 8:18
  But he waited till the last five minutes to penalise for coming in on the line out too close and for hanging on to the player and not releasing him in the tackle.
• 8:31
  So we would have done the same.
• 8:32
  But what frustrates me is that it changes the game for everybody.
• 8:36
  So it doesn't make it a fair contest, I believe.
• 8:38
  The one thing you need to do these days is you need to analyze the referees.
• 8:42
  I mean, I can remember when we played, whenever you had Nigel Owens as a referee, you just knew he wants to let the game go.
• 8:51
  He's not going to blow.
• 8:52
  So if you want to make a steal, you better take it.
• 8:56
  He's not going to reward you if you just push the ball into someone.
• 9:00
  You had to lift it and try and get it out there.
• 9:02
  Same thing if you get tackled.
• 9:04
  must hold onto the ball for 2-3 seconds longer because he's not going to penalise you.
• 9:08
  And then hopefully the team comes.
• 9:10
  So I also think you need to look at the referees, analyse them, know what their strengths are, know how they want to blow the game, and you have to adapt to that.
• 9:18
  All right.
• 9:19
  I'm blowing the whistle on the referee chat.
• 9:21
  Let's go to our Ram, Henan Curias.
• 9:26
  Who delivered under pressure for you, Victor, in this game?
• 9:30
  I'm going to go, actually, someone that came off the bench.
• 9:35
  I thought Cameron Hanecombe last week when he came on, he made a massive difference.
• 9:40
  And this week as well.
• 9:41
  I mean, he only got, I think, just less than 20 minutes.
• 9:45
  But the impact he had, he had that tackle that gave us a try.
• 9:50
  I mean, the steal on the ground, scored himself.
• 9:53
  And just small little things.
• 9:54
  There was another turnover where he was over the ball where they cleaned from the side or Vahey held on to him.
• 10:00
  So I think that impact in 20 minutes was unbelievable.
• 10:04
  And I mean, he's a youngster.
• 10:06
  It's a lot of pressure on him coming in for a guy like Peter Stefft-Toye that's the last year RB player of the year.
• 10:14
  And he just stood up and he delivered.
• 10:16
  You're J.K.?
• 10:19
  I thought Malcolm Marks right across the series was probably the guy who delivered.
• 10:25
  South African.
• 10:28
  So I really can't not mention him.
• 10:30
  I thought he was outstanding yesterday, critical turnovers, you know, critical, critical runs.
• 10:36
  Just, he just makes the right decision often.
• 10:39
  So, you know, from a, from a serious point of view, I'd really have to give it to him.
• 10:44
  I thought he was outstanding in the first days coming off the bench and,
• 10:48
  and then right across the series I think he's been absolutely amazing so and I think to mention an All Black I think Ethan Blackadder was like incredible yesterday he made a mistake late but you know his his aggression in the in the defense his ball carrying his scoring of a try so you know from the All Blacks point of view I think you know he really stepped up yesterday I thought you know he had an incredible game for his first test batch match for a while
• 11:15
  Who is your man of the series?
• 11:16
  Sorry, J.K., do they only see Ethan Blackadder as a six?
• 11:20
  I mean, as a seven.
• 11:21
  Can't he play that, I mean, almost Joran Kaino is big, strong, but he's also at the ball, he's got a work rate.
• 11:28
  Can't he play that six role for you guys?
• 11:31
  Yeah, yeah.
• 11:32
  I mean, he's one of those guys that can probably play all three positions.
• 11:37
  But, yeah, I think his real position is six.
• 11:41
  It's just that we don't have a, you know, we don't have –
• 11:46
  anyone sort of like that anymore.
• 11:48
  So I think that, you know, when you think about the McCaws, those real fetches, at the moment, we don't have a real specialist seven.
• 11:57
  So, you know, I think he's good at seven as well.
• 12:00
  I don't mind him there.
• 12:01
  And I think it's really about balance now, Victor,
• 12:04
  you know who's going to stay a bit looser and when you've got Tupou out there you know Tupou he's he's a little looser you know he's a bit of a ball carrier so you need someone at seven that's going to be a bit tighter and so that's why Blackadder I think is perfect in that sort of role you know he complements the the mix.
• 12:22
  Victor who is your um who delivered over the series for you?
• 12:28
  Over the series, I think Malcolm Marks as well.
• 12:32
  I think he was an outstanding player.
• 12:35
  Tesslyn Colby, until he got injured, I think the two of them were just head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch.
• 12:44
  Everything they did was just spot on.
• 12:46
  We actually saw in the second half, struggled a little bit, even at scrum time line-out when Malcolm went off.
• 12:52
  Look, Dion is fantastic at the breakdown.
• 12:55
  but he doesn't quite have that physicality when it comes to scrum and I mean doesn't play hooker often so he was a bit under pressure but um yeah Malcolm Marks just standing up I mean he was RB player last year and he just keeps delivering every weekend if it's at the breakdown carry at the back of a wall making the right decisions um so no for the series it's definitely Malcolm Marks
• 13:19
  I just want to mention also our partners at Ram Hand Am Couriers are doing a special competition for new customers.
• 13:25
  So go to the website.
• 13:27
  It's ram.co.za backslash competition.
• 13:32
  And you can win an Isuzu X-Rider.
• 13:35
  What do you call them?
• 13:36
  We call them the utes.
• 13:37
  What do you call them?
• 13:39
  The utility truck.
• 13:39
  What do you call them, Victor?
• 13:41
  The X-Rider, I think it's an SUV, isn't it?
• 13:44
  So, yeah, but like, you know, we call them Utes.
• 13:49
  What do you call a Ute?
• 13:51
  No, we just call them SUV.
• 13:53
  Nothing else.
• 13:54
  We don't have a name for it.
• 13:56
  Sort of thing, just driving around.
• 13:58
  They're awesome anyway.
• 13:59
  So jump on board there.
• 14:01
  What was your clip drift moment of the game, JK?
• 14:05
  Mine had to be the early tackle.
• 14:09
  You know, I think it was a critical point in the game.
• 14:11
  Victor's going to, every South African's going to agree with the referee, every New Zealand is not going to, but I just thought it was a critical moment.
• 14:18
  You know, I think that the All Blacks had hung in at times.
• 14:22
  And that was a moment where we score there.
• 14:25
  You know, we go back to three points to difference with Rillamond.
• 14:29
  And then, you know, they score the other end.
• 14:32
  So that was an incredibly critical moment for me, totally, in the game.
• 14:37
  And Victor, your clip drift moment of the game?
• 14:40
  My clip drift moment is the second after that.
• 14:44
  Kirtley Aronson picking it up, stepping, going through the whole New Zealand team, scoring under the poles to just...
• 14:52
  seal the deal for the Bokka.
• 14:55
  J.K., you're really not in a good place this morning.
• 14:57
  You're looking really sad.
• 15:00
  I am sad, mate.
• 15:02
  I am sad because I care about this game incredibly.
• 15:06
  I didn't sleep after the game.
• 15:09
  It was a beautiful game.
• 15:11
  It was a beautiful game.
• 15:13
  It was a beautiful game.
• 15:14
  It was a beautiful series, mate.
• 15:16
  Honestly, I absolutely loved it.
• 15:18
  But, you know, I still can't, I still don't like losing.
• 15:23
  That's all there is to it.
• 15:24
  And I don't like it when there's critical moments in the game
• 15:30
  that 50-50 and they go against you.
• 15:33
  So, you know, it's frustrating because I feel for the players.
• 15:37
  You would feel exactly the same.
• 15:39
  I feel for the players.
• 15:40
  They put a lot of effort in.
• 15:42
  It's been a great series.
• 15:43
  The best team won.
• 15:45
  Let's put that out there.
• 15:47
  But I just get upset when the All Blacks lose, mate.
• 15:50
  It makes me sad, especially when I have to wear this jersey and I have to go to the doctor again to get rid of the rash that it causes on my skin.
• 16:00
  Can I ask a question?
• 16:01
  Everyone has been talking very positive about Abe Rennie.
• 16:05
  Let's say he loses one more game of the end of year tour.
• 16:08
  Let's say he loses against England or Scotland end of year tour.
• 16:13
  What then?
• 16:15
  Will they still be happy with him?
• 16:16
  Will they think they made a mistake by changing Scott Robinson?
• 16:22
  No, I don't think they will.
• 16:23
  I think everyone, including the players, are happy.
• 16:27
  I think there's a direction in the team that we all...
• 16:30
  believe in, so I think the general public believe in Dave Rennie, I think the players believe in Dave Rennie.
• 16:37
  I think when you lose a series like this, you go away, and I don't think it was a coaching issue, I think it was a, I think the players, you know, the amazing thing about that South African side when you look at it, they've been in situations like last night,
• 16:53
  for the last three or four years as a team and they know how to deal with that pressure.
• 16:58
  A couple of our guys have made mistakes under those pressure that they'll learn from.
• 17:02
  So to answer your question, I think, there was a couple of selection things that I think people will say, okay, should Rico have been on the bench or should he have played on the left wing?
• 17:14
  You know, should we have played a few players?
• 17:16
  But I think to answer your question, if we can continue this direction, I think we'll be really, really hard to beat.
• 17:22
  I think going into next year, there'll be two sides that'll be unbeaten besides probably a rare mental moment where, you know, we lose.
• 17:32
  But for me, I think the team's heading in the right direction.
• 17:35
  Both teams can play with that intensity.
• 17:38
  And maybe it brings the best out in both our teams and we're not going to get it.
• 17:42
  But I think around the world, even over here in Europe, people are saying they're the two best teams in the world.
• 17:48
  So, no, I think everyone's really happy with Dave.
• 17:51
  He won't be happy.
• 17:52
  The players won't be happy.
• 17:53
  We need to regroup.
• 17:54
  We've got Australia now.
• 17:56
  So we need to keep winning for the pressure to go away and for Dave to stay relaxed in his job.
• 18:03
  What about South Africa?
• 18:05
  I mean, can South Africa get better or is this them peaking?
• 18:10
  Yeah, I think from last year, I think you could see the pressure in the state series.
• 18:18
  We went back to what we know, what our DNA is, really being physical, being very direct.
• 18:27
  I thought last year our attacking game were a bit more expansive.
• 18:31
  We took a few more chances that we haven't done in the series.
• 18:34
  We started off actually that first 10 minutes in the game.
• 18:38
  They actually, I think, surprised All Blacks playing off the kickoff in the 22, keeping the ball in hand, gave the cross kick.
• 18:45
  Unfortunately, we just knocked that on.
• 18:47
  But I think our attacking, and we'll probably see it now with the pressure being off,
• 18:52
  you'll see South Africa go and just add a little bit of attack to the game as well.
• 18:58
  Be a bit more brave with ball in hand and keep possession a little bit more.
• 19:03
  A little bit player-wise, South Africa.
• 19:07
  I mean, is this the group of players that will win the World Cup?
• 19:11
  Yeah, I think all these guys that started most of these games will be at the World Cup next year.
• 19:17
  It's fantastic for me to see a guy like Mordenay van Beek getting opportunity, taking it.
• 19:23
  I mean, off the bench last week.
• 19:24
  This week he started and he stayed on the field for 80 minutes.
• 19:28
  Cameron Harnakum, youngster coming through, getting opportunities.
• 19:31
  So the guys are there.
• 19:34
  And, I mean, it's so nice as a youngster to step into a team like this with a winning culture where you just go with the flow and you're just getting to that.
• 19:44
  You can feel when the pressure comes on, how the older players handle it, what the talk is.
• 19:51
  So yeah, I think we're in a good space.
• 19:52
  I think most of the guys that they were maybe a little bit of a worry about, will they make it to the next World Cup show?
• 20:00
  They're still there.
• 20:01
  They can still perform.
• 20:03
  So I think we're happy with the squad, but I think now we'll see a lot of changes for South Africa in the next few games.
• 20:11
  I think we'll see a lot of younger players getting opportunity and they must share what they can do.
• 20:18
  Because, JK, New Zealand's in a different position, really.
• 20:20
  New coach, bringing in quite a few new players or inexperienced players, trying to find the combinations.
• 20:28
  What do you think New Zealand takes out of this series?
• 20:32
  Well, I think, and I'd just like to also mention Eben Itzebeth.
• 20:36
  I thought he was outstanding as well.
• 20:38
  I thought he was one of those guys.
• 20:39
  And Sia, I thought he was one of those guys that we all go, okay, are they getting towards the end?
• 20:44
  And they've just stepped up.
• 20:46
  I agree with Victor.
• 20:46
  I actually thought South Africa got better over the series.
• 20:51
  I think we got better over the series, but we made critical errors under pressure that a young team makes.
• 21:00
  that hasn't really been put under that sort of pressure ever.
• 21:04
  So when you think about the last World Cup, a lot of our guys, you know, haven't really been put under that sort of pressure.
• 21:11
  So for me, I think, you know, New Zealand has to sort out their second row.
• 21:20
  Did I miss something?
• 21:21
  Was Fabian injured?
• 21:23
  He was ill. Yeah, he was ill. Ill, yeah.
• 21:25
  So I think we need a locking combo.
• 21:28
  You know, Victor...
• 21:29
  Nice.
• 21:30
  Victor will know this.
• 21:31
  I think great sides have combinations.
• 21:34
  They're 9 and 10.
• 21:37
  They're 4 and 5, right?
• 21:39
  And an amazing loose forward.
• 21:41
  So I think what we need to do is settle on a couple of locks that are going to lock us through the next 12 months.
• 21:48
  And you've got to play them, you know, obviously...
• 21:52
  injuries or illness aside.
• 21:54
  So I think, you know, Josh Lord and, you know, and Fabian, maybe I'd go, okay, let's do that.
• 22:03
  And then I'd start, he needs to settle on a 15 and rotate.
• 22:08
  So for me, I still think we've got a lot of growth.
• 22:11
  I think, you know, Geordie right across the series was amazing.
• 22:15
  His defensive effort, again,
• 22:17
  yesterday was amazing he'll he'll be better for a break so his break over the summer he's played three seasons in a row so I think we've got to settle on what might look like our 23 and we need to do that you know this this November and over this Bledisloe Cup series but I think we're heading in the right direction just need to settle on a couple of those combination things I believe
• 22:42
  I want to know, do you agree, Joko, that Damien Dalende won that battle in the 12th jersey?
• 22:50
  Um, I think, I think it was a battle.
• 22:52
  I think that it was, I think there was some amazing from both.
• 22:55
  I think we had two world-class players.
• 22:58
  Um, I don't think he won the battle.
• 23:00
  I think there was, um, I think there was opportunity, um, for both of them to shine in different areas.
• 23:07
  And I thought they were both outstanding, mate.
• 23:09
  I couldn't pick, um, one or the other.
• 23:12
  I, I thought, also thought Jesse at times was amazing.
• 23:15
  Like this, you know, what he did, um.
• 23:19
  in the test last weekend in Soweto was amazing.
• 23:24
  I just think that, like I said, I think South Africa attack has improved and I think they're taking a few more risks.
• 23:30
  I think they really surprised us last night.
• 23:33
  First thing in the 22, they do a alley-oop with the prop, I think it was the prop, passing it around the halfback and away they went.
• 23:40
  So I think these are two world-class sides that are battling it out and I couldn't pick the midfielders.
• 23:48
  What I was just going to say was, you know, to win a World Cup, you always need like a half a dozen or eight sort of world-class players, you know, and South Africa's certainly got these guys, you know, that have been world-class players for a long time.
• 24:04
  We're trying to develop a group.
• 24:07
  Do you see sort of that half dozen, eight world-class players in the New Zealand side by the time of the World Cup?
• 24:16
  I think we'll be pushing.
• 24:17
  I think we'll be pushing because I now think, like I said, who are our two locks that you just go, they're playing?
• 24:25
  We know who they are with South Africa.
• 24:28
  So I think we need to settle on some combinations like that.
• 24:31
  I think...
• 24:33
  Josh Lord in the last two years has been amazing.
• 24:35
  His Northern Tour last year was incredible.
• 24:38
  He played really well in the first Test match, got injured.
• 24:41
  So, yeah, look, our nine's the best in the world.
• 24:44
  We need to settle on who the ten is.
• 24:45
  I think Ruben has now put the others under...
• 24:50
  you know, under Duresh, we've got three 10s, who's gonna be the first one.
• 24:54
  So we've got the nucleus there.
• 24:57
  The difference between us and South Africa is South Africa have settled, they've been through those, you know, those moments where, you know, the diamonds come out like Malcolm Marks, you know.
• 25:07
  So for me, they're a mature side like we were in 2015, right?
• 25:11
  Right?
• 25:12
  And I think that we're a little bit like South Africa was in 2015.
• 25:17
  We're forming and we're coming through.
• 25:20
  So for me, yeah, I think the nucleus is there.
• 25:23
  We just need to settle on some combos.
• 25:25
  It's going to be a timing issue, isn't it?
• 25:27
  So for New Zealand, they're trying to grow and peak at the right time.
• 25:30
  And for South Africa, they're trying to hold on to that peak for another year.
• 25:36
  I must say, I think Rossi don't look at it like that.
• 25:39
  I don't think he's thinking of holding on.
• 25:42
  He's about building a stronger team towards the World Cup.
• 25:47
  Whoever's the best will play.
• 25:48
  I mean, we saw it now with Morne coming in, starting ahead of Koubis and Grant Williams.
• 25:55
  It's all about building.
• 25:56
  The guys that's ready, the guys that's in form will play, the guys that can handle the pressure moments.
• 26:02
  And I must say, I think that's what this test series just showed again.
• 26:06
  And they said it last night as well, Cody Taylor said it, that it was a game of big moments.
• 26:13
  And they said they want to focus on the big moments.
• 26:16
  And unfortunately, again, they just lost those big moments.
• 26:19
  And that's what this match is about.
• 26:21
  These two teams are so close.
• 26:23
  It's about
• 26:24
  getting a big moment, using it, using that opportunity and, yeah, winning the game.
• 26:29
  So I think we've got the players that play the big moments really well and I think New Zealand's developing.
• 26:36
  They're getting very close.
• 26:38
  Yeah, it's a pretty good summary.
• 26:40
  I mean, I think, you know, New Zealand can't really – you've got to own up to the fact that we've lost the last three tests in a row, you know, and that's a big deal.
• 26:50
  You know, there's a lot of test matches to lose in a row.
• 26:55
  I don't quite agree with you, Ricardo.
• 26:58
  I know what you're saying, but I don't agree in this circumstance.
• 27:02
  We haven't lost three teams in a row.
• 27:05
  Yeah, but you're sort of saying it as if we need to worry about it.
• 27:08
  I disagree.
• 27:10
  I disagree.
• 27:11
  I think we've lost three Test matches, but they all could have gone either way and were against the best in the world.
• 27:19
  Now, we want to be the best in the world, so they have been the measure for the last four years, or eight years, actually.
• 27:27
  So for me, I don't think you walk away going, oh, we lost three Test matches, we need to worry.
• 27:34
  we need to make sure that we understand those critical moments and we learn from them.
• 27:40
  Will we get pressured like that again pre the World Cup?
• 27:43
  Because the other thing you've got to remember, Victor, and you know this, you've got to play four games like that in the World Cup to win.
• 27:49
  And one of them you're going to be shaky.
• 27:52
  One of them's going to be one of those games where...
• 27:54
  You know?
• 27:56
  So for me, it's not – I don't see them as losses, Riccardo.
• 27:59
  I see them as, you know, pissed off about it, but I see them as learnings.
• 28:05
  Riccardo, when we started this year, remember the first game against France.
• 28:10
  He already said they're trying things.
• 28:12
  If they lose, it's all right.
• 28:13
  So JK doesn't care about winning.
• 28:15
  It's just about growing.
• 28:16
  It's about the process.
• 28:17
  Winning has gone out the window for him now.
• 28:20
  See, how can I have an intelligent conversation with you two idiots?
• 28:24
  Like, you guys just really annoy the shit out of me.
• 28:29
  Like, you can't have a decent conversation without you throwing, I now want to be a loser.
• 28:34
  I mean, that's exactly what you're going to say, Ricardo.
• 28:37
  You're kidding yourselves, both of you.
• 28:39
  What I was going to say, Kate.
• 28:39
  Of course I hate losing.
• 28:41
  I didn't sleep all night, you Muppets.
• 28:43
  You like being this optimist, but I remember talking to you straight after the 87 World Cup, congratulating you on the World Cup victory, and you said, I missed three tackles.
• 28:54
  So that's the person I was talking to, the person that goes, you know what, there's lots of really good stuff happening, but we need to fix A, B, and C if we're going to get better.
• 29:04
  You asked me that, and I did.
• 29:06
  I told you what we need to fix.
• 29:07
  The critical moments, we need to settle on a football team,
• 29:11
  And catch some high balls.
• 29:13
  Yeah, catch some high balls.
• 29:14
  That's a very good point.
• 29:15
  That's a very good point.
• 29:17
  Why is South Africa so much better at us than the high ball game, Victor?
• 29:22
  Yeah.
• 29:23
  Yeah, I must say, I just think that's a game we play.
• 29:25
  It's actually interesting.
• 29:26
  I mean, quite a few of your wingers are playing in Japan where they never kick hard balls.
• 29:31
  So there's probably a lot of focus in the game.
• 29:35
  And again, it's a confident thing.
• 29:37
  I think in that test series, you worked out the guy going back, catching it.
• 29:43
  Then South Africa changed a bit.
• 29:45
  They kicked from a little bit further in so that our chaser can come from the inside.
• 29:50
  But again, I think if that kick is, what's it, 28 meters?
• 29:54
  Is that the one you said, JK?
• 29:56
  If it's 28 meters, it's so difficult to...
• 29:59
  for the guy receiving the ball because other guys running onto the ball, the whole team is running onto it, the support is there to win the scraps as well.
• 30:09
  So if that kick is accurate, it's so difficult to defend.
• 30:14
  So I think Mourne van der Baer is kicking it so well at the moment as well.
• 30:18
  So it's all about the kicking, setting it up and making sure the guys around the ball is in the right place as well.
• 30:25
  A lot of the time, those balls do go to the ground, and 80% of the time, South Africa did win those scraps.
• 30:32
  I think one thing that's really important to remember is that Dave Rennie's a very experienced coach, and he has got some experienced players to work with.
• 30:40
  But at the end of the day, he's like, what, six months into working closely with this group of players.
• 30:46
  So he's learning about them, and they're learning about him.
• 30:49
  So there's a huge amount of growth in that group left to go.
• 30:55
  And it'll be fascinating to see, you know, in this British Low Cup series against Australia, that's really going to be really important to the All Black team, how they put the disappointment of losing three tests behind them and how they take those learnings from those three tests and become a better side.
• 31:12
  And that's, to your point, Victor, that's where the New Zealand public will be looking to see, OK, do we get better?
• 31:20
  Have we got better as a result of what we've learned from this tough test series against South Africa?
• 31:26
  And I think that's going to be fascinating.
• 31:29
  And then how South Africa goes on its Nations Cup.
• 31:33
  You know, how these two teams come out of this experience is going to be fascinating over the next three, four, five months.
• 31:41
  I don't think, Ricardo, I don't think.
• 31:44
  More pressure on New Zealand now because, I mean, let's say they slip one against Australia, then all of a sudden the question will be, did we get better or aren't we there?
• 31:56
  Well, I think South Africa now against New Zealand has showed.
• 32:00
  That's why I say, I think we'll make a lot of changes.
• 32:02
  Of course, we still want to keep on winning, but if you slip a game here or there,
• 32:07
  I think the focus this year was to win this Rivals Tour and then the next focus is to win the World Cup next year.
• 32:14
  Yeah, I agree.
• 32:15
  I agree that Russ is under less pressure now.
• 32:17
  He can experiment.
• 32:19
  I don't think Dave is.
• 32:21
  I don't think we got better from the third to the fourth test, to be fair.
• 32:27
  I think there were some critical errors made by some players.
• 32:33
  who made them in the third test and the second test possibly.
• 32:36
  So I think the All Blacks will not be happy when they relook at that performance.
• 32:42
  But I do agree with you, Ricciardo, and Victor.
• 32:45
  It now makes the tri-series, you know, we can't relax.
• 32:50
  The Russie can relax, but we can't.
• 32:52
  We've got to really nail off, you know, the next five months and then have a good break and then it's World Cup year.
• 33:00
  The thing that worries me about saying that we could relax is how Victor's going to perform over the next sort of 10 days because he's off to Europe.
• 33:09
  Off to Europe.
• 33:10
  He's got a mimosas.
• 33:11
  Be aware.
• 33:12
  Be aware.
• 33:12
  I'm coming.
• 33:14
  Coming in heart.
• 33:14
  Yeah, I'm leaving.
• 33:15
  As a champion.
• 33:16
  I'm leaving, Victor.
• 33:17
  As a champion.
• 33:20
  I heard you're coming to Italy, so I'm leaving.
• 33:22
  I'm going back to New Zealand today.
• 33:23
  I'm coming quickly to Venice.
• 33:25
  A little road trip up.
• 33:26
  I could have said hello.
• 33:27
  I could have brought you a lackey clippies in Kola.
• 33:30
  Hey, listen, I'm a bit disappointed.
• 33:31
  I'm a little bit disappointed in you guys that you haven't commented on my new glasses.
• 33:37
  I thought that's your grandma's.
• 33:41
  You thought they were my grandmas.
• 33:42
  You've got no idea, Victor.
• 33:44
  Look at these, mate.
• 33:45
  This is a fashion statement if you've ever seen one.
• 33:48
  I thought you'd just come in from a swim.
• 33:51
  You thought I'd come in from a...
• 33:53
  Okay, guys, just leave the fashion to me, all right?
• 33:55
  These are next level, mate.
• 33:57
  Clear, clear is the fashion, all right?
• 34:00
  But I decided just to get my niche a little bit.
• 34:02
  Springbok socks.
• 34:05
  Right, that's it I'm clicking.
• 34:07
  All right, can you just remind us how many times you've won the World Cup?
• 34:09
  I'm back to black.
• 34:10
  I'm back to black.
• 34:12
  In total, we doubled World Cup champions and won it four times, going for a fifth.
• 34:19
  Only out of like six times, winning record is unbelievable.
• 34:23
  All right.
• 34:24
  Now we've got that out of the system.
• 34:25
  We can officially bring the show to an end.
• 34:27
  Thanks very much for another episode of Ram Hand and Currier's Rugby Rivals.
• 34:33
  And, J.K., you look so much better in black, mate.
• 34:35
  Thank you.
• 34:36
  I feel so much better.
• 34:37
  I'll just go and get that antiseptic cream after putting...