Latest / ADHDtime On Air / ADHD, Aging, and Letting Go

Transcript

ADHD, Aging, and Letting Go · ADHDtime On Air

• Daniella karidi, PhD: Hi everyone. Welcome to ADHDtime on Air. Today I'm joined by Jami Shapiro. We're going to be talking about a lot of topics: aging, ADHD, downsizing, organizing, and her book. So thank you so much for joining me. Tell me, introduce yourself and tell the audience who you are. Jami Shapiro: gosh. Okay. Let's see. So as you shared, I'm Jami Shapiro and I am an ADHD, a certified ADHD coach and ADHD specialist with the ICD, which is the Institute for Challenging Disorganization. I am the owner of Silver Linings Transitions. We are a senior and specialty move management and home organizing company in the San Diego area. I'm a certified senior advisor. I'm the host of the Grandma Has ADHD podcast, the president of the National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers, and then I am the author of the book This Explains So Much, which is in audio and in regular book. But I also want to say that I am the mother of three ADHD children and the daughter of two ADHD parents. Daniella karidi, PhD: Wow. So personal experience and all the credentials and the initials to follow. And I was a guest on your podcast. Grandma has ADHD talking about these important topics and I loved it. tell us a little bit about how you found yourself in your way world of ADHD. I mean, you said a bit about your family members, but share more. Jami Shapiro: then this is like my favorite part of how I got here. So, all right, I will share that my I have a half brother who was diagnosed with ADHD in the 1980s. Classic had to be on Riddle in for the teachers to let him be in the classroom. when I was married to my first husband, he would like throw it out there like you have ADHD as an insult. And I would say, No, I don't, you know, because my because ADHD was what my brother had. When my oldest child came to me, by the way, they're non-binary, so that's you know, they came to me around age fourteen and said, Mom, I want to be evaluated for ADHD. And I said, 'You can't have ADHD. You've been reading since you were three.' Because for me, I couldn't sit still to to read until second grade, and Will would sit there for hours face in a book, completely focused. so anyway, as as it happens for a lot of women when they discover they have ADHD, it's when their child is diagnosed. And so I'm answering the questions for the psychiatrist. I look up at him for Will. I look up at him and I said, I'm answering more yeses for me. Do I have ADHD? Like this is he said, yes. and to be completely honest with you, at that point I was 45 years old. I was starting silver linings transitions. I was going through a divorce. I was raising three children. And I thought, okay, I have ADHD. No big deal. That goes on a shelf. and I thought, well, I graduated college with high honors. Why does it matter? I'm doing just fine. And then I went about my business. And then it was about eight years later when I was studying to become an ADHD specialist with the Institute for Challenging Disorganization. And by the way, the only reason that I decided to do that was So silver lining's transitions does typically moves. So when somebody is moving out of their home, we handle all the logistics. We we do the packing, the unpacking, help make the decisions about what's gonna stay and not stay. But we would have slow times. And I'm like, what can we be doing when we're slow? Well, organizing was already part of the services that we were providing. And I learned about the ICD and I saw the word ADHD and I thought, well, I have it, I may as well learn. And during that studying, I heard a podcast where they were talking about fibromyalgia and migraine headaches being very common in women who had ADHD. And the funny thing is, I do a lot of downsizing and right sizing and home organizing presentations. And I would stand up in front of the audience and say, I come from a family with hoarding disorder. Because if you had seen my mom's home, you would have seen piles and stacks and furniture that couldn't be used for its intended purposes and rooms that couldn't be used. And I would say my mom, I used to s use the word hoarder, which we don't call people hoarders. They have hoarding disorder. But I called my mom and I said, Hey, mom, I don't think you have hoarding disorder. I think you have ADHD. Well, guess what? She was almost 77 years old and nobody had caught it. And so she had been treated for her n all her entire life for anxiety and depression. She'd been dealing with the fibromyalgia, the migraine headaches, the clutter. And then I'm like, wait a minute, if my mom has it, that means all of these homes of these clients that I've been going into who have homes that look like my mom's, they probably have undiagnosed ADHD too. And then I enrolled in ADCA to become an a coach. And then I started the podcast. And then my whole world went from never even thinking about ADHD to like, as you do when you have ADHD or autism, you like hyper focus on something. And and so like every conversation I have now has to I have to throw ADHD somehow into it. Daniella karidi, PhD: I love it. I love the untraditional trajectory in one way. And then the other, how typical this is and my conversations that are coming up, the late diagnosis plus getting diagnosed because of others, and the fact that even when you get diagnosed, it putting it aside on the shelf and taking a while until it comes to the spotlight is very, very common. Jami Shapiro: Right, thinking it and I see people all the time and they think it doesn't matter. They think meh and then and tr truthfully, even since going through ADHD coach training, I've learned even more that even wasn't covered because we are just as a society uncovering more and more and more. And so and then when you understand, like I do a presentation and I've got a part of my book that's like that's an ADHD thing, like things that you wouldn't even consider are are tied to the ADHD. as I'm fidgeting in my chair while we talk. Tw hair twirling. I was do I was on a podcast. I was interviewing somebody. I'm twirling my hair and she's like, That's an ADHD thing. I'm like, what? You know? Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes, we were having conversations with different people about different aspects from from food disorders to self-harm to other that we don't always relate and understand how connected they are to ADHD, but also the relationship we have with stuff, which is what something I'd love to talk with you about. Jami Shapiro: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: let's talk about that. How our relationship Jami Shapiro: Okay. Daniella karidi, PhD: to stuff and ADHD are related. Jami Shapiro: okay. All right. Well, there's a lot of it. So I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a a lot of it if that's okay. so so a couple of things. First of all, recognizing that my work is a little bit different than the traditional organizers. And what sets me apart is that I I'm the one that's in the downsizing arena where somebody has lived in their home for 30, 40, 50, 60 years and now they realize They need to move to a smaller home. They need to move into a senior community. And all of a sudden we have to confront our stuff because it's not all going to fit. And by the way, I want to first say that I hate the word downsizing, that we need to be using the word right sizing because it's much more effective to think about what's right for my life, how do I want to live, what's safe for me to use, you know, that kind of thing. so one of the reasons that we struggle when we have a lot of stuff that we've accumulated is decision paralysis. And we, you know, it's hard to make decisions, right? And so what do I keep? What do I not keep? So I'm gonna start going through my bag of tricks and give you some examples of how you have those conversations. Okay, so. I used to love these shoes. They're very high wedge heels. They're red. And I would literally go out and buy clothing to wear these shoes. I am 56, just for context. And about six years ago, I'm walking down the stairs in these heels and my ankle rolls. And I now know that it is not realistic or safe for me to wear these shoes anymore. And so we have to be honest with ourselves. Actually, here's here's a great one. This is Perfect ADHD. Okay. So I went through a divorce, which is also common with ADHD. And Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Jami Shapiro: there's something called the divorce diet. And so I lost a ton of weight because I was super stressed. And also knew that I was gonna have to go back. I had been, you know, single in my 20s, and now I was in my 40s, having had three children. And I don't know if you can see these jeans, or they're a size two, Daniela. I'll I'll stand up for you. you can see there's no Way, right? But the ADHD in me would be like, one day I'll be able to fit into them again, right? And so being realistic with ourselves is part of, you know, why we hold on to clutter. clutter, part of our problem. Also, we have a very strong sense of justice. So I don't want to take my things and make and have them go into the landfill. I want to know that you know they're going to be used and loved, and I'm not contributing to the environment. if I break a bracelet and there are beads that come off the bracelet, I don't automatically throw that away. I think, I can do some other project with these beads. or I go to the store and I'm either gonna get the dopamine hit from shopping. And I see a lot of that with online shopping, where I actually now tell my clients, don't hit the button. Pause it and let it sit there and make sure you're not just going for that dopamine hit. but then there's also the, it's on sale, I might need it, I could use it, and then a lot of someday, like I'm going to do this someday, I'm going to wear this someday, I'm going to do this project. and then you know, throw in a little out of sight, out of mind. If I don't have it piled up on the desk, I'm gonna forget that I have it. And or here's another big one. We need to keep things on easy. So in the beginning of the podcast, you said, I don't do a lot of editing. And I said, I don't do any editing. Because the reality for me is if I have to do editing, my podcast isn't going to make it out into the world because that's going to be one more step for me. The same is true for how we put things away. So if you go out and you buy all of really pretty bins and you put the and they have the lids and you have to like actually put effort into putting your stuff in those bins, you're not going to do it versus if I have open bins where I can just Drop something in, I've just eliminated something to make Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Jami Shapiro: things easier. So I feel like I gave you a lot of you know, why. Daniella karidi, PhD: I had a conversation with that with AI developer of Goblin Tools and he was saying that when he was developing his his his tool, he wanted everything to be the most four steps. If you have to do f more than four steps, it's not gonna be useful for your ADHD or nordivergent brain. He's like opening the app with step one, choosing the thing is step two, putting your content step three, and pressing another button. That's it. If you have another step, then it you're not gonna be using it. I feel the same way with organizing in some ways. If we put in more steps, putting the thing, choosing where it goes, opening it. Now there's a cover too. That's like already we're adding that fifth step that we don't really need. Jami Shapiro: Yeah, and I want to share something. So I used to be the person that would hire the organizers to come into my house. And because I could I just couldn't I always just say I just can't seem to get it together. I wanted to be that mom that had the supernanny come in. Remember that super nanny show? And like, can I use the bad a bad word on your podcast? Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Jami Shapiro: Shit. I I wanted her to come in and help me get my shit together. And and then for my mom, I was always hiring an organizer because I would try, we would fight, and then I would bring in somebody else. And then inevitably it would eventually just go back, even though I swore this was gonna be the time that it was gonna stay. And so one of the things that I'm really excited about that I am now doing is clutter coaching. So I will either do it virtually or I will go into somebody's home and I will explain what what's going on with the stuff. And then we have conversations about, okay, if you say you're gonna use this someday, let's get your calendar out. And let's figure out when you're really going to use this. If you have a Sunday afternoon, is this the project that you're going to go to? How do you feel when you see this item? Does it make you feel good? Like those jeans don't make me feel good anymore. Like they make me feel like, okay, I've gained, you know, 40 pounds and I can't wear these jeans. And the reality is, if I could ever fit back into them, it would be because I was sick. You know, I shouldn't be that thin. So, you know. It so it's not enough just to go in and organize for somebody. They need an understanding of why it never worked before. Put in some gamification, put in some less steps, and then some accountability. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. I think I have a bunch of clients with I will sell this phenomena. Okay. which is the same thing with I will use it later. It's just a variation of that. And I I follow the same mantra and and say, okay, when? When is that going? Like not someday is not a day. I I need you to choose. Because if we don't know when, where, and what, we can't execute. And that's true for every goal. If it's an organizing goal, if it's a retirement goal, if it's a any coaching goal. If we don't have a where, when, what, it's not gonna be happening. Jami Shapiro: Exactly. Exactly. That's good that's a good point with the I'm gonna sell it. What I do, so because this is again my audience, I will usually stand up in front of a group of people and say, if you were gonna leave San Diego next week and or you were gonna move into a smaller house and you only took the things that you wanted, raise your hand really high if your family would want the rest of it or friends. Please raise your hand. And then everybody looks around because nobody's hand has gone up. And then I say, Okay, but you think a stranger is gonna wanna buy the stuff your family and friends don't even want, right? Like that's when the reality sort of hits. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah, I love that. We here unfortunately in LA had the phenomena of having a fire. And that Jami Shapiro: That's right. Daniella karidi, PhD: made us make some hard decisions. When we had to load the car to evacuate the house, it was a really Jami Shapiro: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: good kind of reflection on the stuff that we own, Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. Daniella karidi, PhD: what what would we say from a fire is not a theoretical question for people that grew up that are living at the moment in LA or lived in the last few years. Jami Shapiro: Right. Mm-hmm. Daniella karidi, PhD: and I think it also puts some things in proportion. in the other hand it could cause a boomerang effect if nothing matters everything matters kind of effect with our ADHD brain the nothing and everything. Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. Daniella karidi, PhD: Because I work with a lot of clients in Clients in retirement, I also see this phenomena where our memories to objects make it difficult to let go of objects. And I wanted to talk about that relationship between our memory struggles, because we have memory struggles because of ADHD. And then we think that the objects will help us overcome some of these challenges. Jami Shapiro: Yes. So I'll give you another example. so the this was a mask. I had a collection of masks when I was starting in my teenage years, and they were all on the walls of my home and I mean in my bedroom. And when my stepfather was like, Okay, you need to get your shit out of the house, you know, I I wrapped it all back. I l I grew up in Florida, so I brought it all back, thought one of my three daughters who all do theater, someone's gonna want my masks. So none of them did. but You can photograph an item and you can hold on to the memory without holding on to the thing, unless the thing is something that really makes you happy. Because the reality is clutter is not good for our our mental health. It's not good for our physical health. And when you think about, you know, is is this is this gonna take up valuable real estate? Is this something that I can hold on to through a photo? Like for instance. My daughter, you know, made this in her sophomore year. It's a beautiful clay thing. This is something that I want to hold on to, right? This this has this is I could take a photo of this, but this is one of those things that brings me joy when I hold on to it. That mask is a memory, absolutely. And I remember my bedroom wall, and I I don't necessarily remember where I got that one, but I also like to tell people you can do a show and tell with your family. You can, you know, gather them together over, you know. Over Zoom, you can take bring them into your home and you can say, you know, I used to collect masks and I had a wall filled with them. And every time I would go somewhere, I would have a new mask. And this one was from New Orleans in 1987. And that can be recorded and then and you can also make photo, you know, books with that. And so you don't have to have the item to remember the stuff. Daniella karidi, PhD: And many times the item actually is more a burden than a help. So we need Jami Shapiro: Absolutely. Daniella karidi, PhD: to we need to separate when an item is is useful, helpful, used, gives us joy, as you said, versus we got this as a gift from someone that is no longer with us. they won't know that they we are no longer keeping that item. and that is yes. Jami Shapiro: Sometimes guilt, sometimes people hold on to things. And I want to bring that up. Either it's a guilt or it could Daniella karidi, PhD: That's a great topic. Yeah. Jami Shapiro: be a malignant memory. Like for instance, when I divorced, I had registered for China and Crystal when I got married. And if I had taken that China and that crystal into my new home and into my new life, that wasn't going to make me feel good, right? That that was a memory of what I thought was gonna happen and didn't happen. And so we also have to consider. You know, that if it doesn't make us feel good, we shouldn't hold on to things out of guilt. I know a lot of people hold on to things because of perceived value. You know, pick up your phone and use Google Lens and figure out, is there really value here? And then to your point, okay, fine. If there is, schedule a time to go ahead and take care of selling it. you know? Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. I I do like I don't remember who said it, but I do like the w if it has poop on it, will you clean it? there you go. Jami Shapiro: That was me. You got that in my book. Daniella karidi, PhD: so I do like that metaphor a lot. so Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Daniella karidi, PhD: between will I save it from a fire and will I clean it from poop, that kind of those are my like my criteria. Jami Shapiro: I would clean poop off of this, off of this. This so because the majority of the work that we have done has been moving people into senior communities, I already have a mindset. In fact, my my fiance and I were cleaning cleaning mugs out today, and I said, if I was moving into a senior community, would I take that mug? Because the reality is we use 20% of what we have 80% of the time. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. There's a childhood book that I grew up with where it he talks about the plates on the bottom where the the you you keep on taking the plates from the top but the plate on the problem is jealous and wants to come out and join the dining room table. and I I think about that a lot when I think about my kitchen because I have like shelves that are high that I'll never those are the the plates on the bottom. I'm never getting to there and hopefully that stuff will never move again with me and I might get rid of it when I'm moving. At the moment, it's not bothering me, so it's not worth my mental capacity. And that's another thing I like to talk about when we talk about organizing. We should be organizing for our current self. And I think you will relate to this for the people that we are living and not the one we want to be. And a lot of ADHDers are collecting and holding and stuff for the person they want to be and not necessarily the person they are. Jami Shapiro: Yeah, I call it that Martha Stewart mentality. Like, you know, you see how she seems to have it all together. And if I go and I buy this thing, then I will be like Martha Stewart. And and that is not the reality, at least for Jami Shapiro. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree. I I always I have a sign in my living rooms is forgive the mess my kids are making memories. And I am a strong believer in that. if it if the mess is happening because we are doing things, that is that is productive mess. Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And I mean, and honestly, too, there's a little bit of forgiveness in in the knowing. I mean, when you know that you have ADHD and this has been a struggle, I I was always embarrassed that I I didn't see feel like I had it together. And, you know, I would be the person that would have people over and I would shove things into the closet and shove things into the cabinet, you know. and I think when you understand that you have ADHD, and and we tend to like f like to be around other people who get us. Then it's just like, welcome, welcome to my mess, or I'm making memories with my kids. And then there's just this acceptance and forgiveness of who I really am versus who I should be for other people or who I, you know, want to portray for like that, that, I have a mask. Where did it go? The mask. Daniella karidi, PhD: There we go. so I we talked a lot about like organizing and downsizing and stuff and and a little bit about the book, but I wanna ask you something about the whole aging and ADHD and grandma with ADHD. I'd love if you share with the audience what people are getting wrong and people are getting right that you Jami Shapiro: Okay. Daniella karidi, PhD: see from every day about that mar miracle time of having ADHD, but also aging. Jami Shapiro: Okay. Well, I want to first start with the people who think it doesn't matter. who think why why should why why does it matter? and so I there is a word. So I am as I shared with you, I'm a certified senior advisor. And I I earned that credential when I started realizing that I was going to be coaching and advocating for older adults. I thought I need to understand really more of the spectrum of what aging is. And although I am fifty-six and I'm aging, I'm not Quite at that level, but I learned about a term called gyrotranscendence. And it is a, it is a life stage that we really haven't considered. And that is when we're coming to the end of our life and we are evaluating the choices that we've made, the relationships that we've had, we're evaluating ourselves. You know, we're we're hopefully we're feeling a sense of gratitude and satisfaction and that we're leaving things in a way that we feel good about the life that we've led. If you have undiagnosed ADHD, then there are going to be parts of you who are still and I like to use my mom as an avatar, but she really is such an example. She thought that she was stupid. She thought that she was lazy. She didn't measure up to her brother and her cousins. And and now she has an understanding why she couldn't finish college. She couldn't finish college because she couldn't focus on the classes. It wasn't because she wasn't smart, it was because she wasn't. treated properly. And my mom and I also had a a really hard relationship. A lot of I couldn't understand her. It turns out she had rejection sensitivity. We were both emotionally dysregulated. Now we have a language and an understanding of each other. And she has an understanding of herself. And so that for for in and of itself to me is enough of a reason. But also if you look at the early signs of dementia and symptoms of ADHD They overlap. They overlap. you know, forgetting people's names, forgetting words, losing items, and your your mind going blank. I mean, you know, you saw my mind go blank in this thing. I I dropped a couple things the other day, and old me would have panicked, something's wrong. And I'm like, no, I'm just speeding up a little too much. So that awareness also, so they do mimic, and then as we age, and you you know, I hate to even talk about. This with you because of your specialty, but it is normal for us to slow down. Like we do not necessarily have cognitive decline, but we absolutely aren't as sharp. And it takes us a little more time. Well, it also takes people with ADHD a little more time. So it's a compounded effect. And it's really important that we ask the questions: how is that person in their 40s? Not, you know, who are they in this moment? Because a lot of it is going to mimic it, you know, each other. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. I am actually in the next international conference on ADHD in December, gonna be giving a talk about that topic exactly. and I love it. I think that it's very important. That intersection between how ADHD ages is a topic we're not talking about enough. and I love that you bring it up, and I'm a big fan of that. I think that we need a lot more research, we need a lot more awareness, we need a lot more doctors that are willing to understand. the difference between aging, cognitive decline, and ADHD and the intersection between the three, because they do intersect. And we can't assume we talk so much about ADHD in school. We talk so much now about ADHD in college. We don't talk enough about ADHD in retirement. We just don't. Jami Shapiro: And I want to say this too, like as we age, we're more likely to be on medications. Well, we have a problem with compliance. I myself will have a couple different medications, and sometimes I have forgotten which one I took and which one I didn't. That happened to me one time. I'm like, okay, I can't double up on this other one. So I had to pull back and not take either. Now I have to be very conscious and I have to have put, you know, something in place, but I know now, right? If I didn't know that. you know, as we age, you know, balance is harder. It's harder to raise our arms up. It's harder to get up and down, and then throw in clumsy from being ADHD with aging when you don't bounce back as quickly. you know, or all of the the affair you have to get in order. I mean, we hate forms and here, you know, a lot of us don't address it. We think I'm just not gonna deal with it, and then we leave, you know, a mess for our families. So it it absolutely Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Jami Shapiro: a ADHD is going to age with us, and hopefully. we have addressed what those challenges are going. Daniella karidi, PhD: A hundred percent. I think that when we live in the now and don't think about the future, which is part of what happens in ADHD, then we don't prepare for what will happen for a disaster. If it's we're not prepared for the fire that might come, we're also not prepared for a loss of our loved ones or for us. not no, when we when I give a talk and I ask people in the room how many have a will or a trust or w when I go to a room with neurotypical, there's about two out of ten When I go to a room with ADHD, there's zero out of ten usually. Jami Shapiro: Yeah. And I actually heard something fascinating. I think it was at the neurodiversion conference and we were both at that. I think I heard the someone say that that a future self to someone with ADHD is a stranger. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Jami Shapiro: And I'm like, wow. Like so, so Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Jami Shapiro: I I actually talk about future Jami in my book. because I am now aware and I'm like, okay, so when I write this down here, because I've just made this reservation and I don't now have to go search, future Jami isn't gonna have to search for it because I've prepared future Jami for success. and and that has been super helpful. So I can't even imagine somebody that doesn't even consider that's gonna be them in, you know, five minutes or five years or five days. Daniella karidi, PhD: Right, right. And the the negative effects of not pro plan planning and preparing for our future, both medically, both financially, and both for others that we've when we leave this life, that also has a major effect. and I think that us now I talked with a lot of fifty something women and we're j we're now in the sandwich generation where we're sending kids to college or t or high school or b young adults, but we're also starting to care. for our parents and coping with their challenges. And if you have ADHD and you are caring for yourself, but also for a teen or a young adult and a parent, your the load on your mental load is enormous. Jami Shapiro: And that's for a neurotypical as well, by the way. I do Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Jami Shapiro: I do want to share something, you know, because of the background that I have and my own my own stories, and I think it's really important for your your listeners to hear, is that if we don't plan effectively and we don't make sure that our family knows, then there are three scenarios that I see play out. One is what happened with my aunt, where she died, she had four children, she died unexpectedly. My cousins were grieving, emotions were high, and they could not agree on her belongings. The police had to be called in and my four cousins never spoke again. that is a scenario. In fact, thirty percent of the time, those fights blow up families. the thing that happened with my gr my grandmother, again, an unexpected death. My mother was not prepared to make decisions because again, my mom had undiagnosed ADHD. So now she's dealing with my grandmother. She's dealing with grief. She doesn't want to make decisions about my grandmother's things. And she doesn't want to let go of parts of my grandmother either. So then now my mom now has hoarding, a hoard, you know, a hoarded home because she has taken everything that was my grandmother's and moved it into her house. You know, that's that's the other scenario. And then there's also the kids that are just like, I'm just gonna call goodwill, let them take it all. Well That's your family. That's your history. And if you don't like make sure that people understand like this this is really important to me and this is what it meant and you know and obviously not everything can be held on to, but those important items that have those histories and those stories deserve to be kept. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes, we have a Thanksgiving tragic trag tradition in my household. Every Thanksgiving you have to fill your paperwork in Big Bama, which is a place to for legal ab above 18 to fill out documentation for your parents to be able to have access to help you in emergency and things like that. and you have to say something that you're thankful for in this stuff that are important to you at the mo this moment in your life. And not only about experiences and stuff that we're, I'm thankful for my family. Yes, I'm very thankful for my family. But this year I got like an award and it's now on my shelf and I'm very thankful for it. And I want to share that again with like this is what it means to me, this thing. So Jami Shapiro: I love that. What was that reward what was that award? Daniella karidi, PhD: so it was just an award for for Jami Shapiro: Don't say just. Daniella karidi, PhD: being being in the ADHD world. It's it was a it it's not it really is not a big thing, but it was just an example I can think of. Jami Shapiro: okay. Well I think being known in the space 'cause we're pretty amazing people. I mean, you know, when you when you host a podcast and you hear what peop what we have done, you know, it's just like you're you're Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Jami Shapiro: you're and and by the way, your name comes up every time I d I was talking to Jessica McCabe about her book and your name came up. So yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Yes. I can't wait for her new book to come out. actually Jami Shapiro: Yes. Daniella karidi, PhD: she her she is in one of the episodes. I'll put a link for people to I I just interviewed her and it will come out soon too. Jami Shapiro: Nice. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. but my point is that our life just changed, and if we don't talk and share the things that are important to us with our family members, they're not gonna guess. we make a lot of assumptions about people knowing things as ADHD years. We assume a lot. and and we take shortcuts sometimes and it's great, but sometimes we need to take the steps to write that down, to communicate with others what's important, which is hard when you struggle with planning for the future. Jami Shapiro: I have to can I share a funny Thanksgiving story with you? Okay. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Yeah. Jami Shapiro: So I wanna say it might have been 15 years ago, maybe 16, I don't know. But I decided to start a book, a thankful book. And so every year the intention was is that we would write in that book what we were thankful for as our family, you know, evolved every year. So I I think I did it for like the first two years, and then I either lost it or forgot that I had it. So then you see a couple of years that are blank. And then you know it's such and again, this was before I knew I had ADHD. Now I would know, okay, this has to go with my fall dec decorations so that when the fall I will remember that I have the book and I will put it someplace as a visual cue. But it was so funny getting that book out and seeing. But I I will say that I love that I that I thought to do that. I just wish that we had done it every year. Daniella karidi, PhD: And that is another typical ADHD phenomena. We have really good intentions and we can execute for a while, but at some point it's not exciting, it's not new, it's not a game anymore, or we can't find it. and you're modeling a good response. Hey, I wish I did that, and here's a different strategy. But they're there you're taking away the shame and the guilt. The way you're talking about it, I love it. That's a way I wish we could always do when we make these kind of, I had a really good intention. Here's a solution, maybe I can do different so this will change and and I'm have no shame and guilt for not executing. Jami Shapiro: to share another like one of my thoughts on ADHD. I love that with with the trait of being ADHD, we also usually are very resilient. And I think that those two go hand in hand intentionally. And I'm I'm very spiritual. So you know I believe I have ADHD for a reason. I is going to allow me to fulfill my purpose and I don't want to go too you know whatever with you. But I also love that it comes with resilience. And so, yes, I made this mistake. Yes, I dropped this thing. My gr one of my kids broke a plate that was my great, my great great grandmothers, I want to say. Like, and rather than getting upset with her, the plate was broken. It was there was nothing that was gonna bring that plate back. So I didn't also need to make her feel bad about it. And I was just like, all right, well, it's a broken plate. Can't take it with you. Daniella karidi, PhD: Right. Well, if you don't use something, you can't lose it. you can't break it, but then you also are not using it and it's just display or it's just not a clutter on the shelf. So I think that that mindset is really good. And I love the the connection you're making between ADHD and resilience because sometimes we only see the challenges of having ADHD and we forget sometimes that as you said, they are the hyperfocus, the the ability to relate to others. You talked about a lot of other aspects that are also strengths. Jami Shapiro: so many you know I I when I do my podcast I stole this from Pen Holderness I ask my guests if they would push push the button and not have ADHD I have only had one person say that they would push the button and not have ADHD so I think that's I mean I do and I I think and back to you know I don't I feel that when we start openly talking about ADHD then we're reducing the stigma of it which is also why I'm like okay I make mistakes like you if you see that I make mistakes and you still like me Or you're not judging me, then you realize that that it is okay. And and that that's actually why I called the book. I said it was the perfect is the enemy of done version. Because if if it if I had, you know, agonized over it, it would never have gotten out into the world. And just for the few people, I mean, that have said how much it's changed them or how it brought awareness to them, it it you know, it it again is fulfilling my purpose. I wanna just make sure before we end the interview that I get to put in a plug for NASA because I feel like that's really important for your Don't we do that now or is there another time? Daniella karidi, PhD: Definitely. We we I have a few more questions, but put the plug in now. So l share with the audience. Jami Shapiro: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so we there is an organization called the National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers. it is not just national, it's also in Canada, I believe it's in Australia, but it was named that, you know, 25 years ago. We're about to celebrate our 25th anniversary. Most people don't know that it exists, but if you think about moving, it is one of the most executive functioning draining processes you can go through. It's all of the steps that are involved, the decisions that are made. NASAM is actually we are an organization that has a code of ethics education and we help people go through the process of moving. And we used to only be for seniors, and then we realized that there were a lot of other people who wanted, like people with ADHD, because it's the the title is specialty. so we're not just for seniors, we're for busy professionals, we're for empty nesters, we're for divorcing clients, ADHD, neurotypical, any but anyway, I just wanted to put a plug in. It's NASMM.org. As I said, I'm the president of the association. So if I don't at least share that, then they may, you know, kick me out of that Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Jami Shapiro: that seat. Daniella karidi, PhD: I I love I love that you shared it. I remember we moved a lot and I mean like a lot and I remember that every time we moved, people will tell us that moving for a kid is as traumatizing as a divorce or a death in the family. and I definitely would have benefited from help, professional help in these moves. And I definitely know that if if I am gonna move again, I'm going to calculate in my moving expensive help. I'm gonna be reaching out to you, Jami. But Jami Shapiro: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: I'm definitely gonna take that in account because I know that the emotional challenges, the physical challenges, plus the executive function ADHD challenges, this is one of the places where outsourcing can change and benefit. If you can afford getting that support and if you can get even a professional support like you suggested, it's even better. Jami Shapiro: Yeah, thank you. Daniella karidi, PhD: I wanna ask something I asked my guest consistently, and it's about Jami Shapiro: Okay. Daniella karidi, PhD: what would you tell young self now that you know about ADHD, now that you are an ADHD specialist and all the titles next to your name and writing this book, what would you tell young self? Jami Shapiro: Okay, so I that is an amazing question. I've never been asked that before, so I'm gonna kind of go off the cuff. I wish that I had recognized rejection sensitivity and how sensitive I am. and I will also say that I did feel like I was stupid. and I think that a lot of people with ADHD, because we have so many negative messages coming at us, that I I've I've earned a lot of I haven't earned the the higher degrees, but I've earned a lot of certifications and done a lot. And a lot of it is sort of to say to the world or or even to myself, hey, I'm I'm not stupid, you know? so I would say to little Jami, you know, you're not stupid. not see I'm tearing up. Like this, like because Daniella karidi, PhD: Well. Jami Shapiro: I think of, I really think of I did a coaching session with someone Who coached me on internal family systems and you know, there's a little bit of examining how I felt as a young child. But I I I I hope that those little girls out there, and little boys, I guess too, who are beating themselves up or thinking, you know, they're stupid because they c they're they can't, you know, sit still for something they're not interested in. That doesn't mean that they're they're stupid. It just means that they haven't found their passion. and I think I would just say, you know, you are going to find your passion. You're gonna make a a difference in someone's life. and you're gonna forget everything. So make sure that you have some system to write it down. Daniella karidi, PhD: I as a memory expert, I will agree with that statement and I love the the the insight and yes, you definitely are not stupid. and my follow-up question is what would you tell future self? Jami Shapiro: well, I I am doing a great job for future self. So I am making sure that I am saving money. I'm not spending impulsively. I'm very intentional. Like if and that's one of the things I say in my book is for those people who are just always spending without thinking, think of something that you're gonna want in the future. Like you said, I know I'm gonna wanna hire a move manager one day, right? So I have my account I'm just giving you, you know, or a professional organizer, but Just having an idea of what you want for your life and and making sure that you recognize that future self is not a stranger, that that is going to be you one day. Daniella karidi, PhD: Love it. Love it. So before we say goodbye, tell people where they can find you. Jami Shapiro: So the easiest way to find all things Jami Shapiro is the Jami Shapiro.me website. And I actually couldn't get Jamishapiro.com, which is hysterical. So it's Jami J A I S H A P I R O dot me, where you can find a link to the the grandma has ADHD podcast, the book, my work, you know, clutter coaching. I also do entrepreneur coaching because I was running a business as an entrepreneur without understanding the impact of ADHD. And So yeah, you'll see different things that I've done there. And then, you know, if you're in the San Diego area and you need or Coachella Valley and you need a move manager or home organizer, we'd love to help. Daniella karidi, PhD: Perfect. Thank you so much for coming and thank you for talking with us and I loved our conversation. Jami Shapiro: I did too. Thank you. This is great. I loved your last questions. Those were really, really good questions. Daniella karidi, PhD: Thank you.